Fergus McCann v David Murray

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How Celtic Turned the Tables on their Glasgow Rivals by Stephen O Donnell:
A Review by Auldheid.

Stephen’s previous publication, Tangled Up In Blue provided a detailed history of the rise and fall of Glasgow Rangers FC PLC from 1872 until their demise in 2012. Clearly a lot of research had been done to cover the period in such detail and his follow up publication Fergus McCann v David Murray etc carries on with that tradition. It is a smorgasbord of a book with many different issues succulently served up in its 350 pages.

It tells of events under David Murray’s tenure at Ibrox which began in November 1988 and ended in May 2011 when he left Craig Whyte holding the rope that became a noose just under a year later in April 2012 when Whyte was found guilty of bringing Scottish football into disrepute whilst Murray claimed he was duped.

Readers of the book will come to the conclusion that if anyone did the duping it was David Murray and it wasn’t just Craig Whyte he duped but Scotland’s national game. If ever Murray were to be tried for crimes against Scottish football then this book would be cited as evidence.

It was against the background of David Murray’s tenure at Rangers that Fergus McCann first arrived on the scene in April 1989 with proposals to inject £17M of New Capital into Celtic that the Celtic Board rejected as per minutes:

Proposals put forward by Fergus McCann to provide finance for various capital expenditures were unanimously rejected by the Directors’; and then again in August of the same year: ‘Mr McCann’s latest proposals were discussed and it was hoped that this was a final discussion on the subject. Latest proposals were rejected by Directors.
Fergus later returned to the fray and the chapter on how he was successful in ousting the Board in 1994 is an informative read, particularly if in that period single parenting cares took precedence over caring for Celtic.

I was amused reading the tale of discontent aimed at the old Board after a Ne’erday 4-2 defeat to Rangers in January 1994 when a bemused Walter Smith was watching the hostility aimed at the Celtic Directors box, one fan in the main stand screamed at him, ‘What are you looking at, it’s got fuck all to do with you.”

For me anyway there were a few “not a lot of people know that” moments like that in the book.
The contrast between Fergus McCann’s and David Murray’s style was immediately evident, but the impact of Fergus’s shorter tenure from 1994 to 1999 became more than evident after McCann left and the author does not miss the role servile journalists played and hit the wall for turning Celtic supporters against McCann during his tenure, whilst they dined on Murray’s succulent lamb. A role that in the end helped bring about Rangers end, but not the culture of servility when covering the activity of Rangers FC PLC successor club from 2012.

Sky TV get it in the neck too and if David Murray played the part of Colonel Mustard in killing Scottish football through his financial recklessness and duplicity, Sky are the lead pipe whose toxicity still dictates the nature of the current state of play.( I said it was a Smorgasbord)

Fergus kind of did what it said on the tin. In his case a tin of nippy sweeties, but it was interesting to read about his early years when even then he was described as “a cheeky upstart” but his “idiosyncrasies” and appearance under a bunnet, disguised a sharp if impatient business mind where for him getting straight to the point was akin to procrastination.

So too has Murray’s early years been covered including his rejected attempt to buy Ayr Utd, a rejection by Ayr Directors, who considered Murray was too hot headed and most volatile, that infuriated him.

Their conclusion that he was trying to get Ayr United on the cheap with only £125k of his own money involved was an indicator of his strategy of using other people’s money to invest and not his own. Other people including unsuspecting taxpayers to a tune of £50 million or so.

As you follow the narrative of both Fergus McCann and David Murray and the events that surrounded them, you end up wondering how so many could have been fooled for so long by one guy, but when you have the Scottish media in your pocket it was difficult to separate fact from fiction during the tenure of both. You also wonder how Murray remains a Knight of the Realm since.

Luckily for Celtic Fergus knew business fact from PR fiction and avoided the illusion in which Celtic’s main rivals continue to struggle to this day.

The great pity is that few, if any of the Scottish main stream media will even give this book a mention, because if you don’t write about it, it never happened, except it did and this book is proof.

I therefore recommend anyone interested in the future of our game buys it and asks, is it not now time to revisit the purpose of Scottish football?

Auldheid

713 COMMENTS

  1.  

    bordersdon 31st August 2020 at 22:49

    bect67 @ 14.55

    That is a subject that is beyond belief to the people and appeals to they are is/as bad as each other brigade.

    There are none so blind than those that will not see.

    I suggest we on SFM start playing the man and not the ball in certain circumstances …makes me so sad to say this.

     an athiest 

  2. Bordersdon,

     

    I think you may have a good point there. Celtic could have beaten Ferencvaros if Lennon had sent his mam on.

    OK, I I'll get my coat of many colours.

  3. I think most people probably saw this coming.

     

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18689137.ex-rangers-ceo-charles-green-seeks-damages-significant-losses-fraud-prosecution/

    FORMER Rangers chief executive Charles Green is to pursue "significant losses" after Scotland's most senior law officer admitted malicious prosecution of the former administrators of Rangers in connection with the collapsed club fraud case.

    Mr Green says the public apology will come from the Lord Advocate claiming he too should never have been prosecuted.

    A letter sent to Mr Green’s solicitors, Jones Whyte LLP of Glasgow, adds that damages will be paid.

    The letter is addressed to Jones Whyte and is from The Scottish Government Legal Directorate, Litigation Division.

    It is headed 'Charles Green v The Chief Constable. Police Scotland and the Lord Advocate.'

  4. Homunculus 1st September 2020 at 12:58

    I think most people probably saw this coming.
    …………….
    Only the ones paying attention.
    The ibrox fan base were lead to believe the right one’s were caught and would pay for the death of their club. But one by one they all walk away with millions, and with each one that is granted an apology and compensation, who do the ibrox fan base look to for the cause of death of their club?

  5. Cluster One 1st September 2020 at 19:32

    ====================================

    Some of the theories are bonkers, though I think a few realise it was just poor work by Police Scotland and Crown Office.

    Apparently if HMRC had just accepted what they were offered in the first place then none of this would have happened and everyone would be better off.

    It's like an exercise in missing the point. 

  6. The late Lord Denning , I remember, once said something about it being better that innocent men should be convicted than that the judicial processes should be questioned.

    Perhaps ( and here I amuse myself, idly speculating on no basis whatsoever) there could ,conceivably and philosophically speaking ,be some people who would  espouse as a principle  that it is better that the public purse pay the fortunes in damages occasioned by the engineering of the collapse of  cases rather than that the civil polity be disturbed by possibly guilty men actually being found guilty, when there would be no chance of 'non-disclosure' agreements? 

    Naw, that couldn't happen; not in this country.

  7. I for one believe that the goings on with Duff and Phelps, Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland all smelled a bit fishy.

    However, I am also sure that Phil Mac's big hero 'General Ashley' will have pulled of similar wheezes  in building his business empire which includes taking over distressed companies.

    Why would one such cowboy be seen by some as a 'hero' and others playing the same kind of game as 'villians'?

    The facts are however is that even if the administration and liquidation of Rangers doesn't feel right, no one from the Police, The Crown, the IPA has slam dunked any particular wrong doing.

    As discussed on here not so long ago, something can come across as wholly wrong but still be, having undergone scrutiny, technically quite correct and acceptable in the eyes of the law or accepted practice.

    Some lucky people will end up getting paid compensation, others will continue to collect a six figure salary.

    It is still all very murky in the land Scottish Football.

    The only sure thing is that Rangers were liquidated and as such the club died, but yet the footballing authorities have never had the gumption to tell the truth regards the status of the club currently playing at Ibrox.

     

  8. Bordersdon
    I share your frustration, although I’m not so sure that shoehorning a wider conspiracy into the Duff and Phelps case does any more than raise the odd eyebrow.
    The competition issue to which you refer is real though. The problem is that football is now a collection of self interested money making franchises and no longer the association of enthusiastic interdependent clubs seeking sporting competition.
    I think we will get back to that someday, but not until the public are so sick of the monotony of the one or two horse race that the financial gravy train is derailed.
    Then maybe sporting principles can be applied once more and measures put in place to make it impossible for the cycle to begin again.

  9. wottpi 1st September 2020 at 22:45

    “..The only sure thing is that Rangers were liquidated and as such the club died, but yet the footballing authorities have never had the gumption to tell the truth regards the status of the club currently playing at Ibrox”

    “””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    And those are simple facts, not matters of opinion. That’s the killer truth.

    I note incidentally that the new Head of the BBC , (not-yet ‘Sir’)  Tim Davie “spent his first day meeting staff at BBC Scotland in Glasgow.” (“The Scotsman”, today)

    In his message to all staff he said “….a BBC for all….ensure that we deliver outstanding and unique value…..To do this we will need to keep reforming the BBC with urgency so that we are trusted, relevant…We are an organisation that matters, and your work is admired for its creative brilliance, outstanding journalism….”

    I shall  presently send a wee message to Mr Davie informing him of the failure of Pacific Quay to tell the truth about the Big Lie that TRFC is Rangers of 1872,

    its insistence on fostering that untruth

    and its steadfast refusal to allow that ‘Lie’ to be discussed on air by those who might wish to have the matter exposed.

    I will  let him know that quite a substantial section of the BBC audience in Scotland believe that  an organisation which is prepared to lie in a matter of ‘Sport’ ( for heaven’s sake!) are inclined to believe that it would lie in more serious matters.

    And once caught out in a lie and the defence of a lie, an organisation is forever suspect.

  10. wottpi 1st September 2020 at 22:45

    I don't know anyone who considers Mike Ashley a "hero", his business practices seem to be appalling. 

     

  11. John Clark at 10.18

    You could also ask about using taxpayers money to pay EBT tax dodgers. The response I got is that BBC are happy to let people look after their own tax affairs. 

  12. Higgy's Shoes 2nd September 2020 at 11:04

    '..Whatever next?'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    "..Sheriff Peter McCormack asked if it was possible one of the horses was a mare and the abuse was intended for the animal. Yates said: “It was ambiguous.”"

    Good God Almighty!

    Tell me please they were joking!

  13. From The Daily Mail;

    “(English) Premier League clubs will vote on Thursday on a curtailment plan to be used to determine final league positions if subsequent seasons are abandoned, Sportsmail has learned. The top-flight clubs want clarity on the issue and a mechanism for deciding final standings to be written into the competition’s rules after controversy over curtailment threatened to derail Project Restart last season…”

    ==============

    I believe that the SPFL management failed to get clubs to agree to it assuming additional covid-related powers recently.

    However, if the season is stopped prematurely again, does the SPFL have any new / clearer rules to deal with it?

    Or, will it be a repeat of the unseemly, public bunfight amongst clubs, the SPFL and SFA? 

  14. Paddy, a good point!   I remember reading an article a few years ago about a lot of the high earning ‘celebrities’ working at the BBC are not employees and as such there is no income tax or N.I. deductions.  They are left to deal with their own tax matters.   If I remember correctly, not a few were using tax avoidance schemes.  I think that is par for the course in those circles.

    Hardly surprising then that BBC Radio Scotland Sports has got no problem hiring EBT recipients as pundits!

  15. Homunculus 1st September 2020 at 21:03
    Apparently if HMRC had just accepted what they were offered in the first place then none of this would have happened and everyone would be better off.
    …………..
    If only the ibrox club had accepted HMRCs offer at the start, none of this would have happened and the ibrox club would have survived.

  16. John Clark 2nd September 2020 at 10:18
    I note incidentally that the new Head of the BBC , (not-yet ‘Sir’) Tim Davie “spent his first day meeting staff at BBC Scotland in Glasgow.” (“The Scotsman”, today)

    In his message to all staff he said “….a BBC for all….ensure that we deliver outstanding and unique value…..To do this we will need to keep reforming the BBC with urgency so that we are trusted, relevant…We are an organisation that matters, and your work is admired for its creative brilliance, outstanding journalism….”
    ……………….
    Chris McLaughlin Tweet testerday morning.
    He should never have faced fraud charges relating to purchase of ibrox club.

    Chris McLaughlin Tweet later that evening.
    He should never have been prosecuted on fraud charges relating to the purchase of rangers assets back in 2012.
    ……..
    Maybe the new Head of the BBC words had an effect.

  17. Cluster One 2nd September 2020 at 14:48

    '..Maybe the new Head of the BBC words had an effect.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Ha, ha! 

    If Davie's words could have such immediate effect, there would be a follow-up documentary by Mark Daly, showing how Scottish Football , after a reasonably honest start, sold its soul; and apologising to us all for the part the BBC played in aiding and abetting the fostering and propagation of a sporting untruth that was as wicked and damaging as it was ludicrous!

    ( I should, in scrupulous fairness, add that I understand that  Chris McLaughlin was not 'yes-man' enough to avoid being the reason why the BBC is barred from Ibrox)

     

  18. JC,  I find it amazing that the BBC are still barred from Ibrox despite BBC Scotland's compliance with the 'continuity myth' !

  19. paddy malarkey 2nd September 2020 at 12:40

    "John Clark at 10.18

    You could also ask about using taxpayers money to pay EBT tax dodgers. The response I got is that BBC are happy to let people look after their own tax affairs."

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    A reminder of that dodge by well-known BBC staffers and freelancers :

    'BBC to pay out millions to settle historic tax avoidance claims'

    https://www.taxwatchuk.org/bbc-tax_avoidance/

     

  20. Off Topic.   Although mostly a lurker, I miss EJs contributions to the site.  I can understand why he eventually gave up banging his head at the ending of last season.  In terms of Hearts obviously.  

    But he is knowledgeable in so much more than that and could still contribute.  

    I am a Celtic supporter but that is not to say I was not sympathetic or empathetic at times with his views.

  21. If the BBC are still barred from Ibrox then surely TRFC are in breach of the SPFL contract with the BBC, therefore should not receive any of the monies from distributed from the BBC

    Also the BBC should cease from broadcasting or publicising any news, etc. from TRFC

    I wonder how that would go down with the Ibrox faithful and indeed the RFC biased staff with the BBC ?
     

    Someone from the SPFL should show some bottle and remind TRFC they have contractual obligations to them, and if they don’t fulfil them there will be penalties

  22. Menace, yes you are correct, the BBC are half hearted  on their part in the 'not talking to each other' impasse.   Continually updating during games, displaying quotes from SG etc.  

  23. Contemplating a rainy Wednesday night in September. In Scotland. Just food for thought. Nothing mischievous although very much bereft of research…

    Aberdeen FC and Celtic FC’s management team haven’t had their troubles to seek. Both face a fixture backlog; albeit Celtic are much more troubled with this, given the stakes, but less so given their depth of squad. 

    I proffer a solution lost. The ‘game in hand ‘should’ve and ‘could’ve’ been played this evening.

    The rules? Aberdeen don’t field ‘the 8’ and Celtic dig deep into their squad in the absence of their international call-ups and the suspended Bolingoli (obviously). 

    If that didn’t ‘square the circle’, I can’t foresee a better way to neutralise an otherwise infinite claim of injustice. Not without the philosophers stone or, at least without a compass, moral or otherwise. 

    10 must be binary. Regardless of whether it equals 4 x 3.

    I’m away back to the weather on the West coast….

     

  24. Just a reminder. – The BBC is not barred from Ibrox, only the one BBC employee. It is BBC who say that if he is barred then they will send no-one until that is withdrawn.

    Then followed the decision that the BBC were not allowed interviews if they did not cover the games.

  25. Mickey Edwards 3rd September 2020 at 09:16

    “..Just a reminder. – The BBC is not barred from Ibrox, only the one BBC employee. It is BBC who say that if he is barred then they will send no-one until that is withdrawn.”

    “””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    When it comes to matters of fundamental principle there can be no selectivity as to which principles are to be defended and which ignored and trump-led upon.

    If the BBC adopts as a principle that no lying football club  can dictate to them which BBC reporter will be sent to cover any news story, they should be ready to adhere to a more fundamental principlethat the BBC should itself insist on reporting and telling the truth about that lying football club, instead of fostering and propagating  the Big and utterly absurd Lie at the very heart of it!

    ‘Press freedom’ is freedom to investigate and report on the truth, not freedom to sustain a Lie.

    The BBC still gets ‘Nul points’, from me!broken heart

     

     

  26. The BBC have been banned so many times from ibrox over the last years it is a wonder they just don’t tell the ibrox club to go take a hike. They would get less hastle if they just cut all ties with the club.Would not worry about a boycot, they have been there seen that. They might get another demonstration at the BBC studios, maybe more than 20 will turn up this time.

  27. For an institution which has coined the phrase, “time to move on”, TRFC are very reluctant to do so so.
    Their problem is that they badly need as many ongoing causes célèbres as possible in order to deflect from the existential issues that have dogged them and the predecessor club for over ten years now.
    Can’t see any detente breaking out any time soon on any of several fronts.

  28. I hope this upcoming business is accessible and that I can get the access number:

    “Friday 11th September

    Continued Procedural Hearings
    between 9.00am and 10.00am

     CA9/20 David Whitehouse v The Chief Constable of Police Scotland &c   A & WM Urquhart  Ledingham Chalmers 

     CA10/20 Paul Clark v The Chief Constable of Police Scotland &c Kennedys   Ledingham Chalmers LLP                       

     

     

     

     

     

  29. Big Pink 3rd September 2020 at 20:43

    ".. TRFC are very reluctant to do so ….."

    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    I have some sympathy for them in so far as they are in the same situation as Shakespeare's Macbeth confessed himself to be: :" in blood Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er".

    The only way forward for TRFC is to acknowledge the truth: that while the supporters of the liquidated RFC of 1872 transferred their undoubted loyalty to a new club which

    uses the assets ( bought at fire-sale prices) that had belonged to the liquidated club

    and which adopts the 'philosophy'  and attitudes of the liquidated club,

    the sporting history of the liquidated club could not and cannot meaningfully be transferred to the new club. 

    I imagine that the need to claim and pretend to be RFC of 1872 arose principally from the desire to float RIFC plc as being the holding company of 'the most successful club in the world" [no one could seriously have believed that the loyalty of the fans to a new  'Rangers' would have been at risk if the newness of TRFC had been admitted]

    If they had had to tell investors that their investment would  be in a brand new football club that hadn't kicked a ball  (as, in my view, they ought legally to have done!) there was a risk that the flotation might have failed and no one would have made any money!)

    So, the Prospectus for the IPO simply had to at least imply that all that had happened was little more than a change of ownership of the same club. There have been and are  many examples of such in world football. And there's no problem with that. 

    But in fact nobody settled the debts and bought RFC out of Administration.

    There was no new owner of RFC of 1872. 

    That was a problem, until the iniquitous 5-way Agreement, which was aimed at creating such a fudge of legal and sporting reality as to create a false sense of 'legitimacy' : the assertion was able to be made that the 'Football Authorities' recognise the new club as actually being the old club!

    And so on and on and on, with the ASA and the BBC Trust and the SMSM , UEFA , the ECA and ( sadly)  the FCA, taking the word of the SFA as the Football Governance body, the Guardian of the Sport in Scotland, that TRFC is 'continuity Rangers of 1872'!

    ( with Pacific Quay 'sieg heiling' with as smart a clicking of promotion-minding heels as ever there was at the Nuremberg rallies in the 1930s)

    Eight years have passed since the iniquitous 5-Way Agreement.

    Today, we have in effect a guilty club in our midst, and an even guiltier governance body.

    Our game is therefore a charade.

    Is there a way forward? 

    There is, of course. 

    But, like Macbeth, no one has the moral courage to take the first step on that way. 

    ( But ,again in absolute fairness, Dave King has to be credited with acknowledging the fact that RFC of 1872 can still be bought out of Liquidation!

    Where that would leave the SPL with two clubs having one share would be a wee problem, though )broken heart

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  30. John Clark 3rd September 2020 at 22:54

    "Where that would leave the SPL with two clubs having one share would be a wee problem, though )broken heart"

     

    Oh were I to be a billionaire, like some "fine" men on the board of Celtic FC PLC, I would be only too happy to offer BDM a satisfactory sum to buy RFC PLC (now RFC 2012) out of liquidation.

     

    I would then challenge the SFA/SPFL in court as to why "my" historic titles have been given to another club. Oh the joy, to see them squirming under oath trying to justify their actions and give credence to the 5-way confidence trick.

     

    Why Desmond, O'Brien, Haughey et al, haven't pooled their resources to do just that is beyond me???

    Unless of course, they are perfectly happy for their fans, as well as 40 other football clubs fans, to be stitched up this way……

  31. normanbatesmumfc 4th September 2020 at 09:52

    '..Unless of course, they are perfectly happy for their fans, as well as 40 other football clubs fans, to be stitched up this way……'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Well, the gentlemen you mention  seem to have been happy enough not to have had the possibility that their club was cheated out of some millions of pounds even investigated!

    A properly functioning a.se really does need two cheeks!

     

  32. I suppose my moral compass, choosing "doing the right thing" before profit and my disposition of treating others as my equal, would disqualify me from joining any "billionaires club". 

     

    In other news, it would appear yet another fake transfer story has been rebuffed – Barisic £8m transfer to Leeds. This added to the Morelos to Lille, (and a dozen other clubs) and Kent to Leeds, where much needed inflated transfer figures are banded about, without any real bids forthcoming. Always followed by the player's apparent commitment to the Ibrox cause.

     

    It all reads to me as a desperate attempt to get a large chunk of cash in pronto and Anyone Everyone is for sale….

  33. normanbatesmumfc 4th September 2020 at 12:16

    ‘..It all reads to me as a desperate attempt to get a large chunk of cash in pronto and Anyone Everyone is for sale….’

    “”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    From the ‘Herald’

    30th April

    “Rangers freeze season ticket prices for 2020/21 campaign and extend application deadline”

    By Matthew Lindsay  @MattLindsayHT

    “And the Liverpool and England great (Gerrard) confirmed the Ladbrokes Premiership outfit, who sold a record 47,000 season books last term, would not be asking for any more money from their regular followers.”

    4th September “The Scotsman”, 

    by Andy Newport (Press Association)

    ” Supporters have bought up 46,500  season passes despite the current closed-door restrictions’

    ” Meanwhile, Rangers managing director Stewart Robertson has praised the club’s support after season tickets sold out once again’

    Does anyone know the true number of season passes that it’s possible to sell? Has there been a reduction in capacity since April, or is one or the other ‘reporter’ a splendid example of the useless toss-pots who pass themselves of as journalists??

    Or is it Robertson who’s a useless toss-pot of a managing director who doesn’t know the season ticket capacity? 

  34. normanbatesmumfc 4th September 2020 at 09:52
    Why Desmond, O’Brien, Haughey et al, haven’t pooled their resources to do just that is beyond me???
    ……………
    They would have to pay the Debt. The big tax the wee tax any oldco fines that were never paid. They would then have to find somewhere to play as their old place has someone else moved in they would then have to gather a playing squad and backroom staff. Then apply for membership to the league. Then any court cases that may arise to challenge the SFA/SPFL in court as to why “my” historic titles have been given to another club.
    To much cost just so you could say that you own the club with the most trophies in scotland. And by the time you did all that Celtic would have overtaken you in the Trophy haul.
    King had a stadium and a fan base and a compliant SFA, SPFL and media, but never had the money to bring the old club out of liquidation.

  35. It seems that Scottish football will never “move on”.

    As long as there is ‘a Rangers’ in the SPFL, that club will claim to be Rangers FC which died in 2012.  The Ibrox fans will not accept anything resembling the truth.

    The SFA & SPFL, (& the other, 41 clubs), have zero interest in revisiting 2012, and will continue to strain their collective brass necks to look the other way.  They have ALL bought into the continuation lie.

    IMO, the closest that non-TRFC supporters will get to any acknowledgment of wrongdoing is when Petrie and Doncaster have shuffled out of Hampden for the last time.  Then, their successors ‘might’ try to play the PR game of blaming all the governance woes in 2012 on those 2 departed individuals.  Under new management, let’s all “move on” now…

    (Of course, this is additionally flawed in that the next SPFL and SFA leaders will be cut from exactly the same cloth as Petrie and Doncaster.)

    IMO, the only way the game can move on from 2012 is literal.

    Only if/when Scottish clubs are admitted to a cross border league – whether English or European – will the memories of 2012 begin to fade, IMO.

    Scottish football has neither the ability – nor the will – to deal with the insidious fallout from the shameful governance decisions around 2012.

  36. A question that may already have been answered some years ago : following the death of Rangers of 1872 which living club rightly claims to be the most successful football club in world football? 

    And are they content that an 8 year old club is  allowed to claim that title?

  37. StevieBC 4th September 2020 at 15:23
    The Ibrox fans will not accept anything resembling the truth.
    …………..
    They all accepted the Truth in 2012. But they deny they accepted it.

  38. John Clark 4th September 2020 at 18:45
    ……………….
    Al Ahly from Egypt are the most decorated club with 118 Trophies. I don’t know if they claim to be the most successful football club in the world.Is being successful staying alive as a club? It may depend of what clubs look at as being successful. The ibrox club can claim to be whatever they want, does not make it true.
    In the lower leagues of scottish football the ibrox club had banners to claim they were the most successful club in the world, but i don’t know if it was embarrasment that they were never seen again or after https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/the-rangers-football-club-ltd-a13-224406.html They thought we are trying to hard to convince, remembering that ASA allow IRN-BRU to claim it is made from Girders.
    The whole successful thing was dropped and the banners removed.

  39.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I had occasion to have a look at this case (while listening to that rubbishy 1-1 draw).

    It was an Appeal to the English Court of Appeal. 

    "The facts:

    1. Mr Robert McKendrick ("the appellant") was one of a number of defendants to a claim brought by the respondent Financial Conduct Authority ("the FCA"). In the course of the proceedings two worldwide freezing orders ("WFOs") were made against him. He breached those orders in a number of different ways and admitted that he was thereby in contempt of court. On 1st March 2019 Marcus Smith J ("the judge") committed him to prison for a term of 6 months. The appellant appealed against that order, contending that it was far too long. At the conclusion of the hearing of the appeal we announced our decision to dismiss the appeal, and indicated that our reasons would be given in writing. These are our reasons for dismissing the appeal.
    2. For present purposes, the underlying litigation can be summarised very briefly. The appellant was involved in a number of investment schemes, in respect of which investors suffered losses. The FCA brought proceedings in relation to the operation and promotion of those schemes. After a contested hearing in March 2018 before HH Judge McCahill QC the appellant was found to have acted in contravention of the provisions of section 397, and to have been knowingly concerned in contraventions of sections 19, 21 and 397, of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, including by the making of false, misleading and deceptive statements in relation to one of the schemes. Judge McCahill QC recorded that he had found the appellant to be "an evasive and untruthful witness on critical matters". The appellant was ordered to pay a sum in excess of £14.3 million to the FCA, for distribution to the investors. The appellant sought to appeal against that order, but permission to appeal was refused. On 23rd October 2018 he was made bankrupt on his own application."

     

    The link to the appeal case is

    https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/524.html

    the case I was originally looking at was 

    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Vaswani-v-Hussain_-Judgement-30.7.20-APPROVED.pdf

    in which a right chancer was  sentenced to two (concurrent) jail sentences of 6 months for not honouring some undertakings he had made to the Court.

    Someone we know was, I think,  very favourably dealt with by the Court of Session and an easily satisfied FCA, eh, what?heart

  40. Anyone know why we have added the nice red stripe to our blue and white strip .

     

    Reminds me of socks we once wore in by gone days of yore.

     

     

  41. Tim Davie, I note from this morning’s ‘Scotsman’, addressed the BBC staff in Cardiff. He is reported as saying that ‘renewing the BBC’s commitment to being impartial is the “number one priority”‘

    He warned staff that if they  wanted to be opinionated columnists or partisan campaigners on social media….they should not be working at the BBC.

    He added ” Our research shows that too many perceive us to be shaped by a particular perspective”

    I wonder if he made the same speech to the ‘liquidation deniers’ in Pacific Quay when he addressed them the other day?

    Davie was referencing political partisanship.

    However, impartiality is indivisible. 

    And there is absolutely no doubt that BBC Scotland has for the last 8 years  steadfastly maintained the utter fiction that RFC of 1872 did not die as a football club, and has credited TRC with being  the very same club as RFC of 1872.

    Argue as much as they like that they are only obeying orders from above, the BBC in matters relating to Scottish Football has shown itself to be very definitely ‘shaped by a particular perspective’ on Scottish Football that has been and is as damaging as any ‘particular perspective’ on politics .

    Remember, in the matter of the liquidation of RFC of 1872, there is no scope for differences of ‘opinion: it is an absolute fact that ‘Rangers Football Club plc’ is in liquidation. 

    It is a matter of fact that TRFC was newly admitted as a new club in 2012. 

    And those in ‘public’ positions who deny those facts are either as thick as two short planks or lying through their teeth. Some may be both.

    And one does not get to work at any broadcasting level if one is as thick as even one short plank!

     

  42. paraniodbyexperience 5th September 2020 at 00:10

    Anyone know why we have added the nice red stripe to our blue and white strip…

    ====================

    Don’t have a Scooby.

    Must admit that I took no notice of the new kit launch in November.

    But that is an interesting point you raise.

    In my lifetime, I don’t remember red being included on the home top? (Apart from within the badge?).

    The top looks like it has armbands on the sleeves.

    The red over white stripes resembles the flag of Monaco, (initially thought it was Poland, but that’s white over red).

    A cursory search with the SFA and generally, didn’t explain the inclusion of red on the top.

    Not a very good-looking top anyway, IMO.  

  43. StevieBC 5th September 2020 at 18:01

    '..The red over white stripes ..'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    I see it as a not so subtle move towards UK-ifying the Scotland national football team by dressing them in the colours of the Union flag, encouraging the world to persist in the belief that Scotland is really only just a part of England.

    The SFA has, I think, already given the nod to letting players play for the GB team at the next Olympics.

     

  44. I don’t think that the honour resides with RFC either John.
    Pretty sure there is some Eastern European sides with more than 115 (I think that’s the number) trophies

  45. Stevie BC
    In the late 60s, Rangers brought out a new step with the intertwined RFC on the breast. The change included red socks with white tops.
    Being in the middle of the 9 in a row era, there were lots of crisis charts on TV and radio. On one such occasion, Willie Woodbury, a guest on Scotland Today or some such, opined that Rangers troubles were down to losing the black socks with red tops.
    It was at that time the (probably erroneous) shaggy dog tale that the red tops at the knees were representative of spilled blood.
    The shaggy dog tale was promoted heavily by both cheeks btw.

  46. Thanks for that BP.

    Yes, changes to strips can become controversial – so why the SFA would mess with the top colouring is strange, IMO.

    (I thought you were going to write that back in e.g. the early 1900's Scotland played in a top with red in it!)

     

    And from confusing colouring to confusing, (exasperating), SMSM content.

    I typically don't read anything Hugh Keevins writes – and his effort in today's DR quickly reminded me why.

    This journalistic nugget jumped off the screen at me;

    "Rangers believe there is a lack of proper governance at the SPFL…"

    smiley

  47. StevieBC 6th September 2020 at 11:20
    “Rangers believe there is a lack of proper governance at the SPFL…” they want more placemen at the top. There fixed that for Hugh.

  48. Cluster One 6th September 2020 at 14:55

    '… they want more placemen at the top. There fixed that for Hugh.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Exactly so. 

    SDM 's hopes that the club he had , by his tax cheating, put at great risk, would somehow comfortably emerge from Administration, went agley.

    Nobody bought the club out of Administration in order to carry on as before but wonderfully and gloriously  free of the crushing weight of debt he had incurred!

    And the club died the death of Liquidation. 

    It was then that the 'fix' went in.

    The fiction was created that  'Rangers' did not die, and that a brand-newly created club was still the Rangers of 1872!

    Such an absurdity! Such a perversion of truth!

    and how disgusting that a governance body and Scottish Football generally should have been party , and continue to be party, to such nonsense.

    And worse, that 'journalists' should have been party to the lie and give it support.

    TRFC/RIFC plc are now plucking familiar strings on the lyre  that is the SFA, emboldened by their success in thus far getting away with a monstrous lie.

     

     

     

  49. So watched the Womens Football Show on BBC last night.

    Some good stuff but two howlers from the defence of newly promoted Aston Villa against Man City.

    Poor stuff that was frankly primary school level.

    Not wanting to get involved in a debate regards abilities between men & women etc but it did get me thinking when I noted that the sponsor panel used at interviews had Barclay’s splashed all over it.

    A quick Google and it appears the Women’s Super League have a £10m sponsorship deal over three years.

    https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/fa-womens-super-league-barclays-sponsorship

    I know some folk bemoan the quality of Scottish Football but it is surely of higher standard than the WSL and has one of the best support per head of population ratios in the world.

    What is that guy getting paid £400k a year supposed to be doing for our game?

    Even our last deal was only £2m per season when compared to the reported £3.3m per season for the WSL.

     

     

  50. wottpi, totally agree that Doncaster has consistently undersold the TV rights.

    BUT

    I'd hold fire until we get the Scotland result tonight.

    If Clarke can't secure a convincing win with his best team – against a ragtag collection of Czech players selected at extremely short notice,

    then mibbees we should all just ditch men's football and watch the women instead?  At least they qualify for the World Cup.

    no

  51. StevieBC 7th September 2020 at 17:35

    '.If Clarke can't secure a convincing win with his best team ..'

    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    I've just tuned in to Sportsound.

    The pundits all a bit puzzled about Tierney's absence and the decision (apparently) to go with a back three. Billy Dodds  in particular sounding a cautious note about underestimating the Czechs.

    I'm inclined to agree that it might not be any kind of walkover tonight.

     

  52. If Scotland doesn't win tonight, a headline in the DR tomorrow could be;

    "Scotland stopped by dud Czechs!"

    or

    "Scotland Bounced by Czechs"

    or

    "Blanked Czechs cash in against Scotland"

    or possibly

    "Scotland takes advantage of blank Czechs"

    etc.

  53. Yesterday’s news from Westminster and jaw-dropping developments at the Assange trial underlining that the rule of law and justice is being lost in a wider domain than that of Scottish football. Voices like ours are being reduced to plaintiff cries across sport, the law, health policy, and elsewhere.
    Those voices still need to be heard though, because underpinning this new post-truth normal is a compliant post-journalism media.

  54. Big Pink 9th September 2020 at 08:07

    ”  . Voices like ours are being reduced to plaintiff cries across sport, the law, health policy, and elsewhere.’

    “””””””””””””””

    I think the pits have been reached when the UK Prime Minister can blandly admit that his Government is deliberately going to break International Law in a little ‘technical ‘ way. 
    The British Government,of course, has a whole history of doing unpleasant things to people and peoples, but they generally made it ‘legal’ first, and claimed to be implementing the Law.

    Buffoon Boris’ readiness openly to make light of ‘Law’ is quite a frightening development, betraying a cast of mind not far from that of Lukashenko and any number of despotically-minded toe-rag politicians in the world.

    We all have a duty to ourselves to cry, ” here, haud oan a minute ,pal.’ in the face of untruth in governance of any kind: whether in international or domestic politics, or in local Government or in the fields of governance of the  Arts and of Sport. 

    Some areas of life are clearly more important than others: a Boris or a Trump might actually kill you if their their political ravings and actions are given free expression.

    The SFA can just about kill your sport and recreational pastime, by acting deceitfully and against the very concept of Sporting Integrity.

    The failure of the Press to investigate and keep the lies of any and all ‘governance’ bodies in the spotlight may kill democracy itself.

    The SMSM’s  ready abetting and fostering of a ‘sporting’ lie does not provide any assurance that they would resist any manic illegal actions of the UK government.

  55. BP, you're right: these international weeks seem to suck the life out of footy fans in Scotland!

    In relation to SFM 'asking questions the media won't ask',

    it speaks volumes that you have to watch a supposed 'enemy' state media – Russia Today – to get any detailed coverage of the Assange hearing.

    Personally, I've just realised why we are all destined to become grumpy old men like Victor Meldrew.

    As we get older, our opinions of those institutions we had perhaps held in high esteem – like government, the media, the BBC, the legal system, even democracy itself – are significantly changed, and not in a good way.

    It probably happens with every generation?

    With experience comes weariness and cynicism: the whole 2012 Rangers debacle was just a microcosm of the real UK we live in today. 

    And the SMSM was/is never going to publish the truth if it's problematic for some.

    Today the burgeoning – and privatised – censorship of the internet is fast becoming a lost cause, IMO.

    Maybe we'll have to go back to the original, manual printing presses to be able to share the truth in future?

    indecision

  56. With the SMSM being openly mocked over on Twitter land with  their clickbait saga of the daily what club will be linked to Moralos this day.It shows that they have no shame.With the amount of laughs an article gets now, is looked on as better than any factual content and information  that that article can deliver, The SMSM is near the end of it's life cycle. No one i know now buys a Newspaper, and why should they.

  57. On Saturday last , when I posted about the new Director-General of the BBC having visited both Glasgow and Cardiff to address staff, I suggested that I might write to him.

    I have now done so for the sake of completeness. If I get a reply it will ,I expect, be along the same lines as before, about the BBC Trust having made a distinction between 'company' and 'club' and that  it was the 'holding company' that died, not the transcendental spiritual essence of what constitutes a club!

    If that kind of nonsense does come back, I will of course follow through with a rebuttal.

    Here is the text of my letter, for the record.

    "Mr Tim Davie CBE

    Director-General,

    British Broadcasting Corporation,

    Brodcasting House, Peel Wing,

    Portland Place,

    London W1A1AA

    Dear Mr Davie,

    Let me first wish you well as you take up your appointment as Director-General of the BBC.

    On 5th September, 'The Scotsman' reported that you had addressed staff in Broadcasting House, Cardiff on the previous day.

    It reports that in your address you said that “…renewing the BBC's commitment to being impartial is the 'number one priority'” and that you “warned staff that if they wanted to be opinionated columnists or partisan campaigners on social media …they should not be working at the BBC” and that you added

    Our research shows that too many perceive us to be shaped by a particular perspective”

    May I say that, here in Scotland, many people do indeed believe that the BBC has a 'particular perspective' when it comes reporting on Scottish football matters.

    It is the perspective, I believe, of a management too afraid to 'speak truth' which has for the past 8 years fostered and propagated a manifestly absurd sporting untruth , not just an 'opinion'!

    That untruth is that a professional football club which was founded in 2012 and admitted for the first time into Scottish Football in 2012 is one and the same football club as a club that was founded in 1872 but which entered Liquidation ( having changed its name)in 2012, and is still in Liquidation even as I write.

    You will know, I expect, that in 2012 when a professional football club in the then Scottish Premier League (SPL) suffered the insolvency event of 'Liquidation' it automatically lost its membership of that league, and, in consequence, lost its entitlement to membership of the Scottish FA , and thus ceased to exist as a playing entity in Scottish professional football.

    I speak, of course, of the lie that The Rangers Football Club(TRFC), founded in 2012, is the Rangers Football Club that was founded in 1872.

    BBC Scotland ( TV and Radio both) refuse to acknowledge the truth that Rangers of 1872 is 'In Liquidation' and that as a matter of 'sports' truth and commercial reality TRFC simply cannot be Rangers of 1872 .

    They are prepared to sustain the myth that RFC of 1872 was bought out of administration by a new owner, and was thereby saved rom Liquidation.

    A look at Companies House records will show the nonsense of that myth.

    I call upon you to put an end to the propagation by your people in Pacific Quay of that myth as evidence of the sincerity of your words to your Cardiff staff.

    Yours sincerely,

    me   "

    I posted that letter by 'guaranteed delivery service'  ( I doubt if I could face a six months hassle over 'non-received' mail such as I had with the FCA!) It should be received tomorrow, according to the post office chappie.

     

  58. Well, here's to tomorrow's hearings in the Court of Session! 

    We have had Boris openly ready to break an International treaty for self-serving purposes.

    We have a Crown Office owning up to 'malicious prosecution'. Why own up? So  that a wee deal can be done to keep dirty washing out of public view?

    What might be the 'dirty washing' and whose might it be? 

    And who is to be hung out to dry ( if anybody)?

    Will we ever know? 

    Sadly, there are no Woodwards and Bernsteins  in the SMSM who might try to find out.

    The Rangers saga is not a simple football matter, not by a long chalk.

    It runs very, very deep, I suspect.

     

     

     

     

  59. John Clark, first off thank you for your help, sorry I did

    not thank you earlier. Been busy. You certainly know how

    to get a reply. I sent an e-mail to Mr Preston yesterday and 

    low and behold a reply today!! Unhappy with the outcome.

    Here is his reply.

    BBC News website, 10 December 2019, HMRC drops further £5m from Rangers tax claim

    Thank you for your e-mail of 10 September 2020 , regarding the outcome of your complaint about the above item, which has been forwarded to the Ofcom Standards Team to respond.

    In line with our published complaints procedures, Ofcom does not as a matter of course write back to individual complainants to explain the outcome and the reasoning behind its decisions, but all complaints are logged and acknowledged, and decisions are published on our website. Ofcom’s considerations about BBC online material are reported in Ofcom’s bulletin for complaints about BBC online material here.

    After careful assessment, we did not consider the material raised substantive issues under the relevant BBC editorial guidelines that warranted further consideration by Ofcom. In accordance with our procedures, this decision was included on page 2 of Issue 17 of Ofcom’s Bulletin for complaints about BBC online material, published on 27 April 2020.

    Yours sincerely

    I have sent an e-mail back today Registering my disgust at OFCOM. I pointed out that it is a sorry state

    of affairs when the BBC can lie with impunity and yet OFCOM does nothing about it. I note from the 

    Bulletin that my complaint was the only one. Perhaps more people need to complain to get them to do anything. Once more many thanks John.

  60. watcher 11th September 2020 at 14:41

    '..thank you for your help ..Perhaps more people need to complain to get them to do anything.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Thank you ,watcher 

    I think it behoves all of us as citizens (oops, sorry, Ma'am, subjects!) to be ready to challenge the deeds and words of people in public office when we think we have cause to believe they lie or mislead.

    We certainly have an absolute right to have our questions at least acknowledged!

    I'm glad you got a reply.

    Any reply might be a tissue of lies, of course: but if that ever proves to be the case the liar can be nailed and held accountable. And equally, any one of us might be wrong in our facts and have to accept that.

    But for  a public official or public body simply to ignore correspondence relating to his or its public functions is absolutely not on!

     

  61. I was up in good time this morning, sat down at about 8.55 and dialled the number to get into the virtual court hearing.

    The line was busy: and it feckin stayed busy up to 9.50, when  I abandoned hope of catching any of the Hearing.

    Was anyone able to listen in?

  62. borussiabeefburg 11th September 2020 at 21:06

    '.Unlikely to last:

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ally-mccoist-revisits-2012-rangers-22669223'

    “The Ibrox legend was manager when the club was liquidated eight years ago.”

    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    If that is genuinely in the paper it might cost someone his/her job!

    It is, as you say, bbb, unlikely to last.

    And that's Lambert off the Christmas card list along with the other Celtic former players who deny that RFC of 1872 died the death!broken heart

     

     

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