Tell me all your sweet, sweet little lies
All about the dark places you hide
Tell me all your problems, make them mine
Tell me all your sweet, sweet little lies
The stridency of Scottish journalist/pundits, particularly coming from those on the BBC Sportsound platform from where they cry out for an investigation into what took place behind the scenes before and after the SPFL put forward a resolution to SPFL clubs, subsequently accepted by the majority, that allowed SPFL to pay out needed prize money to sides below the Premier level is, to quote an old saying, “the talk of the steamie”.
Whilst those cries are ostensibly in support of a demand led by The Rangers FC for a need to change the governance at the SPFL, it is not clear if they mean the way the SPFL conduct business or the way individuals inside the SPFL go about the conduct of that business.
During on-air interviews, questions are being put to clubs about the degree of confidence they have in individuals rather than the processes, systems and structures. This suggests it is individuals who are being placed under scrutiny, and not the dysfunctional processes and structures themselves. A pity, since there is little doubt the governance is dysfunctional.
SFM has long been asking questions about the system and processes of governance and in fact tried to elicit the help of a number of journalists (in 2014) after information which had not been made available to the then SPFL lawyers Harper MacLeod during or after the LNS inquiry had surfaced.
Information that had it been made available would have changed the charges of Old Rangers’ mis-registration of players contracts, and to the more recent and unresolved matter of their failing to act in good faith to fellow club members (which the SFA Compliance Officer made in June 2018 in respect of non-compliance with UEFA FFP regulations relating to tax overdue in 2011).
Following the last Celtic AGM a detailed independent investigation by an accountant was provided to Celtic who passed it to the SFA where the matter has been overtaken by world events but not forgotten. That report can be read here.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NeNzADsUAXkcFQ6QtehK5QqNsFa6he8V
It only adds to the mountain of evidence on https://www.res12.uk that suggests the need for reform of both governance bodies, their structures, systems and process.
Instead the media have given us a narrow head hunt to remove individuals for reasons that can only be guessed. This from individuals in the media whose motivations are as questionable now as they were in 2014, when they and their organisations ignored stronger evidence of greater wrong doing than has so far been presented by those currently advocating change.
The current media clamour for heads on a plate carries with it more than a whiff of hypocrisy.
During week commencing 22 September 2014, some volunteer SFM readers posted a bundle of documents that had surfaced to a number of journalists. SFM had previously sent these documents to Harper MacLeod, the then SPL lawyers. These were important documents pertinent to Lord Nimmo Smith’s inquiry into Rangers use of EBTs, documents which had not been made available to Harper MacLeod by Rangers Administrators Duff and Phelps despite being requested in March 2012 as part of the commissioning of LNS.
Earlier SFM blogs provide the details of communications with Harper MacLeod and can be read from the same link(s) provided to 12 Scottish media journalists in the draft below.
Some of the addresses may have received more than one copy but apart from one for whom only an e mail address was known, they should have received at least one hard copy of what Harper MacLeod/SPFL had been provided with which the latter passed to the SFA Compliance Officer in September 2014 according to their last reply to SFM. It is unlikely none were received by the organisations they were addressed to.
The draft to the journalist which the volunteers were at liberty to amend said:
I am a reader of The Scottish Football Monitor web site and attach for your information a set of documents that Duff and Phelps, acting as Rangers Administrators in April 2012, failed to provide to the then Scottish Premier League solicitors Harper MacLeod, who were charged with gathering evidence to investigate the matter of incorrect player registrations from July 1998 involving concealed side letters and employee benefit trusts by Rangers FC as defined in the eventual Lord Nimmo Smith Commission.
The failure to supply the requested information in the form of the attached documents as clearly instructed resulted in incorrect terms of reference being drawn up by Harper Macleod and a consequent serious error of judgement by Lords Nimmo Smith in his Decision as regards sporting advantage.
The information in the attached was provided to Harper MacLeod and the SPL Board in Feb 2014 and it was pointed out in subsequent correspondence that SFA President Campbell Ogilvie had failed to make a distinction in his testimony to Lord Nimmo Smith between the already confirmed as irregular Discount Option Scheme EBTs paid to Craig Moore, Tor Andre Flo and Ronald De Boer from 1999 to 2002/03 under Rangers Employee Benefit Trust (REBT) and the later loan EBTsfrom 2002/03 onwards under the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust (MGMRT), having initiated the first DOS EBT to Craig Moore (as shown in the attached) and being a beneficiary of a MGMRT EBT as widely reported in national press in March 2012 at the time investigations commenced.
The complete narrative was set out in a series of blogs on The Scottish Football Monitor Web Site that are accessible from
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9dnVHSl9OU3RoWm8/view?usp=sharing
(Edit: The links to the original SFM blogs were listed but some have been lost but original sources have been uploaded to Google Drive accessible from the above link)
However in spite of the correspondence sent to Harper MacLeod, there has been no response from them or the SPFL, save their answer to the original letter. (Edit: There was subsequent correspondence with Harper Macleod after the package and this letter was sent to the journalists which can be read from the above index to the original blogs.)
These points suggests that the SPFL, Harper MacLeod and Lord Nimmo Smith were misled by Duff and Phelps failure to supply the attached documents as instructed as well as Campbell Ogilvie’s failure to correct Lord Nimmo Smiths decision to treat all EBTs as “regular” when the DOS EBTs are not, as the attached evidence clearly demonstrates.
You are one of a number of journalists to whom this letter and attachments is addressed either electronically or hard copy. We are hoping that some journalists will prove themselves worthy of the challenge and investigate the story, even if only to refute it and stop suspicion of a cover up.
A copy of this letter and responses from addressees (or failures) will be published on The Scottish Football Monitor web site for the Scottish football supporting public to note. The e mail address for your reply is press@sfm.scot and we hope that you will investigate what appears to have been the corruption of the very process set up to establish the truth or you will explain why you cannot.
Yours in Sport
Note: The letter above was drafted and distributed with the documentation before a reply from Harper MacLeod was received, but as the reply did not address the issue of the nature of the irregular DOS EBTs, the request to journalists to investigate was even more valid.
The following were the journalists to whom documentation was posted/delivered.
Mr Richard Gordon
Mr Richard Wilson
Mr Tom English all at the BBC.
Mr Grant Russell
Mr Peter A Smith. At STV
Mr Andrew Rennie Daily Record Sports Editor
Mr Paul Hutcheon
Mr Graham Speirs
Mr Gerry Braiden at The Herald
Mr Mathew Lindsay Evening Times (belatedly)
Mr Gerry McCulloch Radio Clyde
Ms Jane Hamilton Freelance ex-Sun Sunday Mail (by e mail)
Only three individuals showed an interest but it is inconceivable to think that the media outlets they worked for were ignorant of the information provided or that the Scottish media sports departments are unaware of the narrative and its implications which were subsequently picked up by The Offshore Game but drew no refuting comments with the exception of Tom English.
He opined that the TOG report was ‘flawed’ although he did not specify how he came to that conclusion.
Darren Cooney of the Daily Record did take an interest in November 2015 when he met an SFM representative, who explained the case then sent him a summary to give to his editor but The Daily Record did not publish the story nor give any reason why they didn’t.
Grant Russell was with STV at the time and a meeting with him was arranged with a fellow SFM contributor but he failed to show up.
He subsequently did show an interest when The Court of Session ruled the Big Tax Case unlawful in July 2017, when he was provided with the a note of the consequences for the LNS Commission. However Grant moved jobs to join Motherwell in late October 2017.
Why bring all this his up now?
Because currently, the existence of texts and e-mails and unsubstantiated claims of skullduggery appear to have energised a media (and BBC Sports Department in particular) that had ‘no appetite’ to investigate actual evidence presented to them in 2014. There seems to be little doubt that an agenda is being followed, but as the preceeding paragraphs demonstrate, it casts doubt that their motivation is reform of the governance of Scottish football, and raises a suspicion that replacement of individuals (whose steerage of the good ship Scottish Football into the RFC iceberg was deemed adequate a decade ago) is what is important. A meaningless powerplay. No more no less.
One may jump to the conclusion that the foregoing is a defence of the individuals at the centre of this controversy, and that it defends the SPFL position in respect of the requisitioners review of governance. That would be the wrong conclusion. The point is that a wide-ranging review of the SFA/SPFL governance is way overdue.
The time window covered by any review should the very least cover the tenure of those accused of malfeasance and mis-governance. The media, and the requisitioners are cherry-picking their poor governance. That is poor governance in itself.
SPFL arrange to have independent enquiry and set parameters with hired gun QC . Recover the costs from TRFC . To quote a stuffed toy , "simples ".
bect67 11th May 2020 at 11:16
For completeness here is what the ICT statement said:-
This is totally at odds to what Doncaster said yesterday on Radio Scotland. – It seems someone is lying.
It may be ICT or it may be Doncaster. I honestly don't know.
What I do know is that it is a shambles.
Why is the bandwagon farcical? Because T'Rangers are involved?
As discussed, I have no particular explanation why they are bumping their gums and leading the charge.
They have little chance of convincing people that Celtic should not be awarded the title. While there a mathematical chance of Celtic being caught if football recommenced, all other clubs and true football fans surely agree they deserve it as being the best team in the league. The degree of disadvantage suffered by T'Rangers for being awarded second is minimal as in all probability that is where they would have ended up.
The only logical reason I can see for T'Rangers sticking up a stink was that they were keen to get their hands on their prize money ASAP.
Take the Ibrox club out of the equation and what is so wrong about people raising concerns that some clubs are being disadvantaged and there has only been a grudging acknowledgement of this and no steps to offer any type of compensation for 'taking one for the team'.
The question often asked is, 'If it was Hamilton instead of Hearts in bottom slot would there be such a fuss?'
My question is 'If Hamilton was in bottom slot and it was Hibs or Aberdeen, instead of T'Rangers, taking pot shots at the SPFL would others, in general, and Celtic fans in particular dismiss the issues so easily? Or would they be calling for the head of Doncaster and others on a stick, given their past performance?
After all its only two months since this damming article:-
https://thecelticblog.com/2020/03/blogs/neil-doncaster-and-his-contempt-for-bt-shows-again-how-hes-unfit-for-this-job/
In terms of securing the future of the game I'd respectively suggest we are not really any further on than when the vote was held a month ago. In fact there is now a degree of division and mistrust amongst members which does not bode well in terms of finding a way forward.
We know the nature of the ‘threat’ made to ICT and to Dundee . It was included in the TRFC ‘dossier’ and evidenced by the WhatsApp screenshots.
At its essence, the ‘threat’ was that if the resolution did not gain sufficient support and league positions finalised, the alternative – making the season null and void – would mean that the scheduled fee payments could not be paid. If no fee payments could be made based on league positions, the only alternative would be an equal split of the total funds.
Of course, that would be a ‘threat’ to ICT’s and Dundee’s budgeted revenues.
But actually, that ‘threat’ only exists if the existing payment methodology was set aside by attempting to separate the (contractually bound) fee payments with final league positions.
The perceived ‘threat’ was simply someone pointing out the natural consequences that would come from voting against the resolution.
If I tell you that you risk killing yourself and others by driving at 70mph on the wrong side of the motorway, am I threatening to crash your car?
Or am I simply pointing out the inherently suicidal nature of your own actions?
https://dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Chairman`s_Statement_&ID=11909
Sorry, can’t C&P the statement directly from the club’s web page because of copyright. But it’s in the web site, linked above.
I currently live in Dunfermline and sort of trust them (as a fan-controlled club) more than I might other clubs. That may be naive, I don't know. Ross McArthur's statement linked above backs up HP's differentiation between a threat and merely pointing out a consequence, which I can see being the nub of that particular argument due to tthe filters applied by each side of the argument.
However, I have to say I can't easily understand exactly what he says in the paragraph about the different proposals and the 1/10th versus league placings-based payouts. Anyone got a clear view?
@gunnerb 12;46
With Douglas Park announcing that the funding gap of £10 million pounds for this year has been made good by current investors then I see no further charges against TRFC on companies house. Not that there is a lot left to secure loans against other than Ibrox stadium.No share issue either so it appears to be unsecured loans or gifts. Maybe the investors are acting like Ticketus and are understandably agitated by slow take up of season tickets.
———————————————————————————————————–
There is always the possibility that Douglas Park is being economical with the truth. The 10m shortfall is equal to 10m in deferred wages over 3-4 months so atm there is no shortfall but when the deferment ends then that pesky debt is back. If one of the current investors had indeed written a unsecured cheque for 10m then the MSM would have been trumpeting such a selfless act from the rooftops as proof positive they are backed to the hilt by people with the club's* best interest at heart. They say birds of a feather flock together well just a reminder that Douglas Park has been flying wing tip to wing tip with a glib and shameless liar for 5 years .
HirsutePursuit 11th May 2020 at 14:12
Sorry but that was not the alternative.
Doncaster has clearly said there have been no alternatives offered to the resolution.
What you describe is a potential outcome if a new resolution, covering that scenario, had been presented to clubs.
Null and void could only have been approved if presented in a resolution.
Are you saying that, from what is on the Whats App chat, some clubs favoured 'null and void' as their next best option?
paddy malarkey 11th May 2020 at 12:48
'..Recover the costs from TRFC '
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'recover?'
Get it upfront in hard cash, I would recommend!
Some people can welsh on their debts.
This is the first timeline i have seen of events.
https://twitter.com/Zeshankenzo/status/1259825292295712769
Click on, show this Thread.
Good statement from DAFC.
Who's telling the truth?
Aberdeen now supporting the motion by Rangers.
https://www.afc.co.uk/2020/05/11/club-statement-monday-11th-may/
wottpi
The 'threat' has nothing to do with Neil Doncaster – or any alternative that he was offering.
You need to bear in mind that there were a number of competing self interests at play.
Clubs are businesses and directors have a fiduciary duty to do what is in their own best interests.
Obviously, the consequences of finalising league positions – promotion and relegation – set the agenda for those clubs who would gain benefit or be materially disadvantaged.
Separately, TRFC perhaps have a marketing advantage in attempting to undermine the legitimacy of Celtic's 9th consecutive league title.
Null and void was the alternative being proffered by those clubs who had/have a self interest in not finalising positions.
Dundee by contrast, in the certain knowledge that no more games will be played, appeared to have less to lose by calling positions as final. It appeared to be attempting to block the resolution as a strategic step towards a form of reconstruction that would give it the greatest advantage. It is likely that the same motive would have driven ICT to vote against.
Those quite disparate self interests coincided at a point of time to create a small cadre of clubs who felt that voting against the resolution was the best course of action. They were all entitled to do so.
Dundee changed its mind. Perhaps realising quite quickly that reconstruction and fee payments could not be conflated in the way it had hoped. It was entitled to change its mind.
Now that the resolution has passed:
Relegated clubs are, understandably, still unhappy with their fate.
TRFC still have season tickets to sell.
It is less clear what self interest is driving ICT's actions now.
The recent Scot Gardener statement was one of the most unprofessional pieces of corporate communications I have ever read. The spurious claims of bullying, the reference to the 'fake' 5:00pm deadline, etc was no more than an agenda laden diatribe. As such, one should ask for what, or perhaps for whose, benefit was it intended? Its own supporters?
One last thing on null and void.
It would have needed agreement, on the same 75% majority and the likelihood of achieving that was, as Dundee and ICT clearly understood, was highly, highly, unlikely.
However, should the SPFL resolution have failed and null and void was the only other way for clubs to get hold of money from the SPFL, the likelihood would have become much greater.
Null and void means no league placings and an equal share of SPFL cash.
This was the nature of the 'threat' conveyed by Ross McArthur.
HirsutePursuit 11th May 2020 at 16:18
'.You need to bear in mind that there were a number of competing self interests at play…'
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That was a masterly summary, HP, and I believe it to be wholly accurate.
Nothing I have heard or read suggests to me that (unlike the Res 12 issue and the 5-Way Agreement where in my opinion there was a great deal of skullduggery) the SPFL board has on this occasion been anything other than cack-handed .
On the contrary, it seems to me that the passing of the Directors' resolution was the only sensible thing in all the circumstances.
I just regret that there was no apparent recognition that the circumstances were such that some mechanism for reducing the financial impact on the clubs that were to be relegated should have been found.
I can add that I am extremely grateful that I never in all my own working life had to work with people of the same unpleasant hypocritical stamp and dog-in-manger attitude as some of the directors of the arrogantly boastful but penurious club that is kicking up a slanderous fuss.
Bad cess to them. And if the CEO of the SPFL were to take legal action against them, I would hope and expect that he would win.
Good summary Auldheid. Time for an effort to have any enquiry also include 2012 and prior?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Earlier today I was at the point of taking time out from the social media and media discussion about Scottish football. The knowledge that a statement from Dunfermline was online made me delay my decision and I am pleased that I did. The interpretation of events by ICT has been disputed and the explanation is more in my own acknowledging once again my feelings regarding the team I see as "little Rangers". I know my local chairman would not be happy with my comments but others will share my thoughts.
HP has then produced a masterpiece comment – well done!
I stay around for a while more as a result.
Excellent piece of work Auldheid.
Thanks Auldheid.
I hope there are a few red faces tonight.
Great stuff Auldheid – selective SMSM amnesia right enough!
I never thought I'd ever agree with SEVCO – but now I'm rootin' for an independent inquiry. Only mine is in line with many posters on SFM – no (historical) holds barred.
Unlikely I know, but as with Res 12, I'll keep the faith.
The FA in England has made it clear how the season should end if games cannot be played! No null and void and there must be relegation! Points per game played to decide. Surprise, surprise some clubs to benefit and some not!
Maybe a model for Scotland to consider! ?
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/fa-tell-premier-league-how-18234450
Brechin have put the cat amongst the pigeons at the 11th hour.
Members and Supporters of Brechin City FC will doubtless have been concerned and indeed alarmed at the current tirade of negativity towards the Club, and in particular our Chairman Ken Ferguson. This challenges the integrity and reputation, both of our Club, and that of Ken personally. Having remained respectfully silent to date, the Management Committee now unanimously feel compelled to firmly rebuff these claims and set the record straight.
In particular, in the recent dossier released in support of the EGM taking place at the SPFL tomorrow (Tuesday), there is an accusation which is pointed directly at our Chairman relating to his part in the run up to the SPFL vote which took place on Friday 10th April. This states, “It has also been alleged that Ken Ferguson (Brechin City Chairman and SPFL Board Director) called League 2 clubs and told them that Inverness had changed their vote to YES and, as a result, the Resolution was going to be approved and that there was no point in League 2 clubs voting NO.”
This is categorically refuted. Unfortunately, this is feeding the current media frenzy and, by association, Brechin City FC and our Chairman are being subjected to un-necessary scrutiny and wholly unwarranted abuse. In addition to anecdotal evidence from all of the other League 2 clubs, we have in our possession verification from each club that no such call was made. Furthermore, each League 2 club is content to provide corroboration to this effect and has stressed that they are entirely relaxed (and in reality appreciative) of the integrity Ken displayed in his role as an SPFL Director in the lead up to the vote.
The Management Committee will issue a further statement in comings days to fully address other allegations that have been directed towards the Club in the media and online in recent times.
Playing the Scotsman and not the Scotsball is not the sole province of the Scottish media. This article from Private Eye the other week
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kbkxt6S2Ao-D_NnCZT4l3S8e6MH-azUG/view?usp=sharing
caused one long time PE subscriber to write to them to try and put balance into their article that reads as if it was penned by The Rangers PR department. Trial by media is bad enough but when they have already decided on their desired outcome , they are as guilty of trying to fix outcomes as the SPFL are being basically accused of now, although its turning into more of dog fight day by day.
To strobes at Private Eye
Long-time subscriber, first time correspondent.
The Eye’s pathological hatred for Murdoch MacLennan has produced a very partial account of the undisputed mess that is Scottish football governance, a bùrach that goes back aeons before Shifty’s appointment as Chairman of the SPFL.
I don’t want to bore the reader with the history and minutiae of all that, but for regular readers like me the Eye’s cheerleading for the club now known as The Rangers (to give it its proper post-liquidation title) is breath-taking and massively unresearched.
In summary the Covid-19 crisis has inevitably produced chaos for the football industry the world over. In Scotland too the relegated or unpromoted are unhappy and understandably complaining. The real reason The Rangers remain incandescent however is that they do not want Celtic (who stand 13 points clear of them in the SPL) to be declared worthy Champions yet again.
The 200-page dossier produced by the Ibrox club alleging mis-governance by the SPFL and demanding an independent enquiry has been widely likened to an elephant labouring to bring forth a mouse.
The Rangers have been in the financial and legal mire since they were formed 8 years ago. In their own published accounts they admitted they would need £10m to see the season out, and that was before the plague struck. This is an unsuccessful club facing another extinction that is now dangerously creating enemies in order to sell season tickets for a season that might not happen.
Tragically for journalism and truth there was indeed a real story in this area 8 years ago when massive tax-evasion and rule-breaking by Rangers (as they then were) led to their death. Around this time the club was improperly awarded a European licence by the SFA.
In addition, their EBT scheme (later to be judged illegal by the Supreme Court) which had allowed them to overpay players was exposed. Related and rule-breaking side-letters should have seen them automatically punished with retrospective trophy-stripping. A sham “enquiry” exonerated them on the pretext that the players were “imperfectly registered”.
The story of how the new “Rangers” was shoehorned back into the Scottish league structure is another aspect of the most multi-faceted saga of corruption in the history of British sport. Institutional collusion underscored everything that happened then, not just by the football authorities but by the mainstream media also, and especially by the BBC.
The only journalist who addressed this in any serious way was Alex Thomson of C4 News. There were a couple of fleeting references on your own pages, but the attempts of myself and others to get your organ to engage properly with one of the most "Private Eye" stories ever fell on deaf ears.
The Rangers now want an independent enquiry into the governance of Scottish football. The rest of us are very happy to see that happen, as long as it goes back fully 20 years.
Yours aye
"Minority Reporter"
Name and address withheld for personal safety reasons
Any SFM readers who wish to follow that example can e mail strobes@private-eye.co.uk
Great article Auldheid
This farce by RFC (IL) tribute act imo is to stop 9IAR even if it means bringing down our whole game and also to appease their raging fans. That is it.
SC verdict (among several other issues concerning oldco) has never been dicussed by our smsm and the implications of the level of cheating by RFC ( IL) over a period of 13 years. Fact. They totally ignored this because simply they can. This is Scotland's open biased shame.
Whoever penned that letter to Private Eye deserves a medal!
Auldheid 11th May 2020 at 21:05
'..their article that reads as if it was penned by The Rangers PR department.
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It might equally well have been written by the the chap who wrote
"SPFL EGM: What you need to know before the meeting" on the BBC Scotland Sport page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52615278
His catty, insinuating use of a pejorative word rather than more ordinary words to describe a perfectly legitimate, within the allotted balloting time, change of vote by Dundee.
He writes "..It looked like the league's season-ending proposal would fail until Dundee belatedly – and decisively – reneged on their initial no vote.[my italics]" betrays him as a biased journalist working to his (or his editor's) agenda.
In the matter of football, the BBC was a blinkered, prejudiced, biased organisation in the 1950s. Not a lot has changed.
Anybody know what TV channel the EGM is on tomorrow…?
If the clubs and the SPFL wanted to – quickly – build some bridges with totally p!ssed off / disillusioned fans, then any/all meetings could be streamed online.
Do they not understand that they will be wholly reliant on the goodwill of us paying punters to save the senior game?
And they're not having a COBRA meeting tomorrow: it's only about bloody football…
An interesting read though probably fair to say nothing that will come as a surprise.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemeehallwood/2020/05/11/rangers-dossier-on-scottish-football-corruption-proves-damp-squib-as-spfls-latest-big-vote-looms/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
wottpi 11th May 2020 at 13:00 Edit
After all its only two months since this damming article:-
https://thecelticblog.com/2020/03/blogs/neil-doncaster-and-his-contempt-for-bt-shows-again-how-hes-unfit-for-this-job/
In terms of securing the future of the game I'd respectively suggest we are not really any further on than when the vote was held a month ago. In fact there is now a degree of division and mistrust amongst members which does not bode well in terms of finding a way forward.
=====================
A lot can happen in two months and this article suggests the author has taken cognisance of changing events this months.
https://thecelticblog.com/2020/05/blogs/the-spfl-sevcos-dossier-neil-doncaster-celtic-and-the-ibrox-mouse-that-roared/?fbclid=IwAR1atRXwIrQDYZ3bIf8qma-6nEByq8LAJeuOx4gpFVpVhugbcbAN0YIumRk
Indeed that is the starting point in that blog.
I think the real problem was an unwillingness of everyone, not just football, to face up to the current reality that might continue for a much longer time for football than can be measured in weeks.
I thought a quick return unlikely which is why I was advocating the long spoon approach, call it solidarity payments, whereas in mid April clubs were only considering this season and I don't blame them for the reason given, too bloody fearful to imagine the end game, so they didn't.
Perhaps after the vote tomorrow with the understanding of the full extent of the threat to our game, those around the SPFL table will stop using the long spoons to hit each other with and turn them to the job of keeping each club alive based on basic costs of each mothballing, a much bigger problem for clubs with high wage contracted players still on the books after the season is ended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=grXBBzNtm2Y&feature=emb_logo
“Just as Drummer would say, ‘picked it out of my arse,’ you know,” he said. “I mean, look, what we did was we basically said: ‘What is the amount we can securitize over the next six months? And basically say to them: ‘Look our problem here is time, it’s not our ability to create the liquidity, the enemy is time here.’”
Just for context:
https://www.rt.com/news/irish-banker-bailout-arse-tapes-184/
me thinks the newco are picking their arse too.
Auldheid 11th May 2020 at 22:45
I refer you to my post earlier, in that, if T'Rangers had kept their silence and it was Hearts, Partick, ICT and now Aberdeen asking for an independent review there would have been no, I repeat no, celticblog article defending Doncaster. He would have still been the bogey man tied up in Res 12, The 5 Way Agreement etc and would have been roundly booed when at the next flag raising at Celtic Park.
Yet some people would now have him up and others for a sainthood!!
I wholly agree that there are major challenges ahead for Scottish Football and wish we weren't where we are.
For the good of the game as a whole, unity was required.
However regardless of the illogical grumblings from Ibrox, the manner in which the SPFL (as a corporate body, not just Doncaster) have handled the situation has led us to a point where there is little trust between members and the chances of the membership doing the right thing, in unity, when faced with an even bigger problem is probably unlikely.
As I said a few days back, the resolution was put forward to deal with one part of the problem, and typical of Scottish Football they did not have the vision to see beyond that.
The result is that they have simply made dealing with the next phase of this situation twice as difficult for themselves and everyone else.
It has been that way for years now and we shouldn't be surprised.
wottpi 11th May 2020 at 23:35 Edit
Auldheid 11th May 2020 at 22:45
I refer you to my post earlier, in that, if T'Rangers had kept their silence and it was Hearts, Partick, ICT and now Aberdeen asking for an independent review there would have been no, I repeat no, celticblog article defending Doncaster. He would have still been the bogey man tied up in Res 12, The 5 Way Agreement etc and would have been roundly booed when at the next flag raising at Celtic Park.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree but had it been the clubs you named would the BBC and others been as strident and consistent in their support as they have been?
I listened to a Sportsound podcast last week where every guest and host had connections to The Rangers, pushing an agenda for reasons that are still unclear. I still don't know what dog The Rangers have in the fight.
To make matters worse the motivation changes at some point from standing up to bullying to wanting proper governance!
That coming from The Rangers, the biggest beneficiaries of Doncaster's talent for finding a way to justify via an interpretation of the rules, an outcome that until this instance Rangers benefitted from?
When your intelligence is being insulted in such manner it is little wonder Celtic fans said wtf?
Celtic supporters know that feeling of not getting a result they hoped for from SFA/SPFL, but this time the shoe was on the other foot, but at least now both sides of the green/blue divide agree an investigation is required, but its focus cannot be limited to what is in the dossier clubs will vote on today and it should be directed at examining what has gone wrong since 2000 and how structures/processes enabled it and what changes are need to prevent a repeat.
I say 2000 because had proper governance been in place then Rangers would have been prevented from committing financial suicide.
As the current blog ends most fair minded supporters of all clubs would love to see a reform of both SFA/SPFL governance but not a man hunt and this is what the whole business started from because Rangers asked for heads to roll.
Auldheid 12th May 2020 at 01:31
wottpi 11th May 2020 at 23:35 Edit
I refer you to my post earlier, in that, if T'Rangers had kept their silence and it was Hearts, Partick, ICT and now Aberdeen asking for an independent review there would have been no, I repeat no, celticblog article defending Doncaster. He would have still been the bogey man tied up in Res 12, The 5 Way Agreement etc and would have been roundly booed when at the next flag raising at Celtic Park.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree but had it been the clubs you named would the BBC and others been as strident and consistent in their support as they have been?
I listened to a Sportsound podcast last week where every guest and host had connections to The Rangers, pushing an agenda for reasons that are still unclear. I still don't know what dog The Rangers have in the fight.
========================
What if, what if! What if Rangers had been 13 points clear. Would they have an issue with governance or would they have submitted a dossier? What if Hearts hadn't been so quick to tie their flag to Rangers mast without even knowing what Rangers 'evidence' was? Might they have had more support had they tried a more conciliatory approach on their own, rather than siding with a club lashing out everywhere for reasons that have never been made clear?
I see the latest allegation today is that ICT wanted to kill the vote then propose a null and void for all four leagues, which would have cost them £175K. Murky? You bet it is, especially given the leanings of the ICT CEO. What of the ICT fans, what do they think? Are they happy their CEO appears willing to have cost the club financially as long as there were no Champions this season, and who was he being influenced by?
In terms of what Rangers actually want my personal view is that governance is not the target, they just want rid of people who they perceive as Celtic minded, presumably to get people in who will be disposed to them.
I too would love to see a root and branch reform of football governance in Scotland, but I am damned if it should only be because of this. Far, far worse things have been ignored in the past twenty years, and the main beneficiaries every time has been 'Rangers'. Get everything on the table, and 'Rangers' will be left thinking they should have been very careful what they wished for.
It won't happen though. Rangers will get their wish as their smear campaign against certain individuals will continue, with the BBC providing an outlet for it. Then they can get their wish of honest people of the highest integrity in charge. I am sure Campbell Ogilvie and Gordon Smith may be willing to step in if required, even just to steady the ship. They are the type of people our game is missing.
We have reached a dark place at a particularly difficult and challenging time. The game needs to ensure it has the best possible governmental structure and individuals in place going forward.
The ongoing omnishambles at the SPFL has found that same authroity badly wanting at a crucial time. Why would you trust them in the stormy waters ahead?
We need an Independent Inquiry to shine a light on all pertinent areas so whatever governmental faults, individual responsibilities, etc. that are found, can be addressed with an eye on the future.
The SPFL mistakenly conflated issues within the resolution (infamous Good Friday Vote). Now I see this messageboard looking to conflate their resolution 12 campaign onto the current problems. I'd call the latter, tribal whataboutery.
By all means pursue whatever issues you want but this is seperate matter that needs immediate attention to give us a chance to future proof the game at a time of a real existential threat to Scottish fitbaw.
Any talk of ...but this should of happened 8 years ago and we wouldn't have been in this mess is predictable but of no material use to the current situation, however you twist it.
I have to laugh at this ridiculous assertion that BBC Scotland are somehow involved in a fiendish plot to help Rangers get what they want.
It’s tinfoil level that only helps reflect a weak argument and doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Referring back to Auldheid's blog above, the depressing thought is that Scottish football governance hasn't progressed in the last 8 years.
Back in 2012, and repeatedly since, the SFA, SPL/SPFL, the clubs – and supported by the SMSM – have all consistently displayed an inability and unwillingness to effect significant change and improvement to the governance of the senior game.
Today's EGM is just a freak sideshow, IMO, in the never-ending Hampden circus.
It seemed obvious back in 2012, as it still does today:
any meaningful change to governance would need to be imposed via another source, whether it's from e.g. the fans, TV companies, the government, or even UEFA!
But currently, there is absolutely nothing to give hope that governance standards are ever going to improve at Hampden.
Auldheid 12th May 2020 at
Simple solution, given the current outcry, Celtic support the T’Rangers resolution with an additional request that the investigation goes back to 2000, as you suggest.
Take it to the vote of the member clubs.
My guess, voted down by a high percentage.
The SPFL board wheel out Doncaster to say ‘move along now’.
In that circumstance do you just have to ‘suck it up’ and say that’s the end of it?
Them’s the rules after all, apparently.
StevieBC 12th May 2020 at 09:40
==============
There is no chance of an independent review in Scotland. When Rangers stole tens of millions in illegally unpaid tax several politicians including the First Minister of the time demanded it be overlooked. What chance an independent investigation when those in the highest authority in the land adopt such a stance? The fact that taxes paid in full and on time underpin our democracy seemed lost on them.
The last so called independent investigation was LNS, which had terms of reference clearly designed to get a specific outcome. LNS could only work with the TOR's he was given. Who would set the TOR's for the one Rangers want?
History shows Scottish football is in its happiest place when Rangers are at the top more often than not. If Rangers were well clear at the top right now there would be no issue. Was there an issue when the Bank of Scotland tried to get rid of Celtic while supporting Rangers to a level way beyond what they should have? Was there an issue while Rangers racked up trophies funded by money stolen from the public purse? No is the answer to both. The media rejoiced on both occasions.
'Independent' investigation in Scotland…jeez.
So…
ICT were willing to forego £175,000 to stop CFC’s 9IAR?
What kind crazy economics is that from their CEO (his decision basically right?) when the game in Scotland is going ‘doon the Suwannee’?
And what, I wonder, do ICT fans think of such actions at a time when ‘every penny is a prisoner’!
Not much I should think but then, they are but pawns in his agenda driven game.
In other news, Barry Ferguson (graduate of the London School of Economics) suggested on PLZ Soccer that, in the interests of expediency, the SPFL pays just now for the independent investigation – stating that it might be done done within within 14 days – then wait for it, reclaim the money at a later date from monies due to SEVCO.
Where do you start with that one?
In fairness, Peter Martin did not respond.
Finally, welcome back RC – back with water pistol fully loaded.
For the record, Ewan Murray of The Guardian was also provided the same documents around the same time as the other journalists mentioned by Auldheid.
wottpi 12th May 2020 at 09:52
"..Simple solution, given the current outcry, Celtic support the T’Rangers resolution with an additional request that the investigation goes back to 2000, as you suggest…….
The SPFL board wheel out Doncaster to say ‘move along now’.
In that circumstance do you just have to ‘suck it up’ and say that’s the end of it?
Them’s the rules after all, apparently."
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Forgive me if I am reading you wrongly, wottpi, but I read what you say as indicating that you are comparing the desire of many of us for a root and branch investigation into Res 12 and the 5-Way Agreement as being as dismissible as TRFC's request for an inquiry into how the 'Directors' resolution' was handled?
There is absolutely no valid comparison whatsoever.
The SPL and the SFL(among others) in 2012 committed themselves to a monstrous lie, both to protect a club convicted of despicable cheating from the just punishment its crimes deserved and to favour a new club, newly admitted by themselves into football, by allowing that new club to claim absolutely falsely to be RFC of 1872 and to go to the financial markets on the basis of that claim in order to enhance their IPO prospectus!
Monstrous offences, in my opinion.
In contrast with the scale of such perverted badness, the strongest criticism that can justly be made about how the 'Directors' resolution' was handled is that it was handled cack-handedly under the pressure of urgency of time in a situation of real crisis (as opposed to the financial collapse and ruin of one club)
It not helpful except to the enemies of sporting truth to suggest that that cack-handedness is any kind of equivalent to the indication of corruption such as we witnessed in 2012.
bect67
Finally, welcome back RC – back with water pistol fully loaded.
%%%%%%%%
So there is nothing to see and all the unhappy clubs should just shut-up and go along with the status quo because the SPFL have shown themselves competent and deserving of trust at such a perilous time ?
The water pistol is a more fitting description of the tribal whataboutery that underpins the arguments that I see being made on here featuring BBC Scotland plotting with Rangers on how to smear the SPFL and the conflation of the 8 year old issue through which everything on here is filtered. In the real world it is consigned to history and not even your own club is interested.
If this community wants to remain faithful to it’s stated aims, then surely it has to be in agreement for an Independent Inquiry on the current omnishambles with no tribal and unrealistic conditional calls for scope to go back 8/20/120 years.
Do it seperately by all means but don’t use it as tribal whataboutery for current events.
The irony of all this is that after all the Rangers/Brechin/ICT/Dunfermline statements an independent inquiry might be a good thing!
We don't really have time for one we just need to get this season finished and try and plan for next season
Bill
…an independent inquiry might be a good thing!
%%%%%%
It was interesting to see your new chairman opt to vote for an Independent Inquiry given Aberdeen aren’t involved in any relegation issue.
Do you think he is involved in this masonic plot or perhaps that he just recognises the need for one?
reasonablechap@11.02
The BBC Scotland historical bias towards any team playing out of Ibrox would make an interesting discussion by itself. BBC Scotland in recent times has failed to support its own staff when any one of them dared to speak the truth and the ersatz ban on the BBC by The Rangers gave the organisation a free hand to continue reporting favourably “in the interests of balance”
In the meantime we are all wondering if football will re-emerge from this national emergency in any shape at all and I look forward to the results of the big meeting today with some hope.
Ex Ludo
The BBC Scotland historical bias towards any team playing out of Ibrox would make an interesting discussion by itself…
%%%%%%%%%
Only, the current conspirational discussion here is centered on Tom English and Brian McLaughlin, who are actually doing their jobs and towards the likes of Billy Dodds and Steven Thompson being political animals that actively push pro Rangers agendas.
The one pundit on BBC Scotland who does push opinions/agendas in a sustained and political way is Michael Stewart and to him, Rangers are on the same shelf as Craig Levein. However even he sees the need for an Independent Inquiry (but at the same time takes aim at Rangers).
The one journalist who almost always pushes a slant on the information he has come accross is Chris McLaughlin. The other McLaughlin, Brian, tends to offer more facts and less slant.
reasonablechap 12th May 2020 at 08:17
5
We have reached a dark place at a particularly difficult and challenging time. The game needs to ensure it has the best possible governmental structure and individuals in place going forward.
Any talk of …but this should of happened 8 years ago and we wouldn’t have been in this mess is predictable but of no material use to the current situation, however you twist it.
…………….
8 years ago, did you believe Doncaster and CO. where the best governmental structure and individuals in place going forward?
And why if yes did you believe that and if yes, why do you not believe it now.
We have reached a dark place at a particularly difficult and challenging time. The game needs to ensure it has the best possible governmental structure and individuals in place going forward.
John Clark 12th May 2020 at 10:56
The principles are the same.
Rangers got a Euro License from the football authorities that meant Celtic and, let us not forget, the others in the relevant Euro Slots were disadvantaged.
Rangers ran an EBT scheme for years, that was unquestioned by the football authorities, where all teams in domestic and European competition were disadvantaged.
Via the 5WA, drawn up by the football authorities, T’Rangers were voted into a slot in the bottom of the SFL/SPL structure to the disadvantage of others. I seem to recall plenty on the RTC blog and here pointing to how teams like Spartans were unfairly treated.
Hearts, Partick and Stranraer have been disadvantaged by a poorly thought through resolution developed by the footballing authorities. Brechin for some reason have been saved. Brora and Kelty Hearts have been disadvantaged by scuppering the pyramid system.
Little or no thought was given how to minimise the disadvantage to those teams or offer anything by way of compensation.
As a last minute thought – if final positions were so important and linked to prize money, why did the resolution not include issuing prize money but holding back a percentage, say, 10% from the premiership, 7.5% from the championship and 5% from L1 & 2 to be distributed to those being relegated as at least a financial recognition they were ‘taking one for the team’ in unprecedented circumstances.
The trouble was, as usual the SPFL board were limited in their thinking and wanted a specific outcome.
As pointed out previously, the accusations of bullying and coercion were apparently fine and roundly applauded when they came from Turnbull Hutton’s mouth. Why were they not just accepted as just being ‘robust discussions’ in 2012?
However, now when others (outwith the grumblings from Ibrox) are saying the same modus operandi was used by the footballing authorities, including some of the same operatives, in the recent resolution these are just simply dismissed as part of a T’Rangers conspiracy and anyone taking that stance are somehow viewed with a ‘blue tinge’.
Like Easyjambo, I think I’ll head off to the chemist to look for the chill pills he was talking about a two days ago.
Clubs meet today to discuss and debate the contents of Sevco's dossier. They will vote on it.
However the vote goes, it goes, but what has become clear is the need to investigate those who seek to undermine and influence fitba' governance using underhand means and tactics, deploying dubious and untruthful methods.
With the best will in the world, even the best governers struggle in such an environment.
A fart in the room eventually taints everyone's nostrils. The only hope of fresh air is a cork up the farters backside, or ejection from the room..
Questions must be asked of who gave smelly breeks an invite in the first place.
It must be got to the bottom of.
Wottpi
However, now when others (outwith the grumblings from Ibrox) are saying the same modus operandi was used by the footballing authorities, including some of the same operatives, in the recent resolution these are just simply dismissed as part of a T’Rangers conspiracy and anyone taking that stance are somehow viewed with a ‘blue tinge’.
Like Easyjambo, I think I’ll head off to the chemist to look for the chill pills he was talking about a two days ago.
%%%%%%%%%%
It’s tribal whataboutery pure and simple.
What this episode clearly reveals on here, is that the supposed common purpose of this community regards holding the Scottish football authorities to account (and not Rangers in particular) isn’t really so, at least for the majority.
The reality for most is that it’s first about Rangers and then comes the rest.
Honourable exceptions like Easyjambo, who try to remain as objective as possible, are thin on the ground.
Cluster
Today is today, 8 years ago is whataboutery.
(to answer your question, I thought Doncaster and Regan should have been binded back then)
ICT statement on todays Keith Jackson article ("scurrlious piece of journalism")
https://twitter.com/ICTFC/status/1260163101556707334
Auldheid 11th May 2020 at 21:05
————–
email to the Eye sent. I didn't go into historical detail, simply pointing out that there is a subtext here that they really should address even handedly if they are going to comment at all, that their published comment was little more than PR from one side of a dispute and that I would not regard the DR as an independent and unbiased source. Shame, I have enjoyed and respected the Eye almost all of my life.
Welcome back Reasonable Chap. Hope you had some nice thinking time for your next attack on the blog….and now it's time for the divide and conquer tactic?! Come on, you need to be better than that.
Nawlite
It isn’t an attack, it is a valid observation of what is going on.
Events are doing the dividing and won’t come from anything I have to say.
Tell me what I was wrong about and why….
That will be more difficult than a general comment.
wottpi 12th May 2020 at 12:31
'.The principles are the same.'
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No, with respect, there is at least prima facie evidence that deliberate mistruths were told either by RFC of 1872 Rangers of 1872 to the SFA licensing committee or by the licensing committee to UEFA, involving perhaps a criminal attempt to obtain monies by false pretences.
The disadvantage occasioned to other clubs came about deliberately by deception.
Any disadvantage to clubs arising from the 'Directors' resolution' is a consequence of a conscientious attempt to apply the existing rules in an unprecedented set of circumstances in the interests of the majority.
Not one shred of evidence has been proferred in the 'dossier' to support the view that the SPFL Board was acting maliciously or with intent to deceive, however cack-handedly and rashly they may have acted.
At best, there are grounds request for an inquiry into the efficiency and effectiveness of the SPL and its CEO .
Let that be done, certainly. But also let there be a full inquiry into the possibility that actual crimes may have been committed by people in RFC of 1872 and/or people in football governance in 2011/ 2012.
The liars of those years are still around, and still have undue influence.
The manky stable has to be cleared out of 8 years of piled manure, and in the scale of things, the 'directors' resolution' is relatively minor.
Reasonablechap 12th May 2020 at 13:03
I agree with you about apples and oranges but that does not make both matters un-important. Lord Nimmo Smith on player registration rules breaches in 11 seasons saying "guilty, but you can keep the trophies" was and remains a travesty that must be dealt with at some point.
Where is the clamour for a Scottish football re-start EGM / taskforce that would remove the needless finger-pointing, accusations and possible court cases that will serve no-one in the game, except of course those with no real stake in a re-start because they are out of the cup and very unlikely to win the Scottish or Europa league?
Real football matters include those that are unarguably wrong. Lord Nimmo Smith was unarguably wrong. Partick Thistle, Stranraer and possibly Hearts being relegated without completing the season is wrong. Amiens SC in France have also been 'relegated'. They have declared this morning in a press conference that it is essential for them to pursue this to be overturned as a question of 'sporting ethics'. Who in all fairness can blame them? You can expect the same in England if the same arbitrary judgement is made for clubs in bottom of the league positions.
European football must re-start and finish 2019-20. Even if it is in 2021.
reasonablechap 12th May 2020 at 13:03
What are the tribes , and which one should I be in ? (a list would suffice – I can investigate on my own , thanks ).
reasonablechap @ 11.20
———————————————————————
My reading of the AFC/Dave Cormack statement and decision to back an INDEPENDENT investigation is that he believes it to be the only way to draw a line under the episode. (he is an innocent abroad in that case for to be sure it will not!). He specifically mentions the opportunity for Doncaster etc to be cleared of any misconduct. I have no idea if he is a mason (which apparently his predecessor is) or is part of a plot. I would like to think not but it is early days for him and the jury is still out for me.
I don't agree with your quote at 11.02 regarding the 8 year old events (In the real world it is consigned to history and not even your own club is interested) is necessarily true. I agree that it has been established that the Celtic Board don't want to go there but supporters of many clubs, including notably Aberdeen, will never accept the Big Lie or that the current version of Rangers is not a new club. Whether we will ever be able to get that view accepted is regrettably, for me anyway, unlikely but that does not mean we should stop trying. My view is not dissimilar from many fans of Aberdeen and it should be remembered that we were very active in demonstrating against the Big Lie back in the day. Mr Milne wanted to move on not the fans. What have I said: A club Board not following the will of the fans? Celtic anybody?
bordersdon 12th May 2020 at 13:49
I agree that it has been established that the Celtic Board don't want to go there but supporters of many clubs, including notably Aberdeen, will never accept the Big Lie or that the current version of Rangers is not a new club. Whether we will ever be able to get that view accepted is regrettably, for me anyway, unlikely but that does not mean we should stop trying.
==================================
I couldn't agree more BD, and I get your drift entirely, but its more than just a "View"……"Fact" would be a more appropriate replacement…….Otherwise a very brief but concise summary.
Thank you bordersdon, saved me typing it!
what you’re missing RC is that you clearly believe we are back to where we were circa 2010, the Shankly inspired life and death comparison, a duopoly and a board trusted to oversee it. We’re not. What we’re all watching, and have watched for 8 years, is a freak show. A rubbish puppet show with visible wires. As the ageing operators try ever more desperately to maintain the illusion so their efforts become all the more transparent. Covid’s role in this? Think of the black screen falling down behind the show leaving the operator, now scarcely believably looking even more ridiculous dressed fully in black against red brickwork all the while getting his puppets to say yes we do, no we don’t etc etc. The Covid question is not, should never have been, which puppet do you support? To apply that in any form is to completely miss the point.
Today is today, 8 years ago is whataboutery.
…..
8 years ago is not whataboutery if no lessons have been learned, Today will be like any other day if lessons have not been learned.
….
If this community wants to remain faithful to it’s stated aims, then surely it has to be in agreement for an dentnt Inquiry on the current omnishambles.
….
This community has remained faithul to it’s stated aim, it has been in agreement for an Inquiry in to the running of scottish football, the problem now is it has taken 8 years for the rest of scottish football to catch up.
…..
(to answer your question, I thought Doncaster and Regan should have been binded back then)Why did you think that?
….
The same cannot be said about an ibrox club who were very happy for Doncaster to remain back then but now during this current omnishambles they want rid of Doncaster now, why not a word in 8 years?
If 8 years ago they, the ibrox club wanted rid of Doncaster and an investigation, this site would have been right behind them, but we are told to forget the last 8 years and stand behind the ibrox club during this current omnishambles that they in part created.
13 For. 27 Against. 2 Abstained
https://twitter.com/Kheredine2018/status/1260210855926550528
CO
————————————————————–
I entirely agree with your view that my view should have been a FACT.
this current omnishambles is a fail then. One can only hope that the ibrox club have a new lease of life (again)
And will call for an investigation into the running of scottish football these last 8 and more years, after all their sabre ratteling it would be a shame if one defeat held them back.
Well, if TRFC has any decency it will now issue a statement along the lines of;
“…due process was followed, so now it’s appropriate for all clubs to unite behind the SPFL – and focus on managing through this crisis, for the benefit of the Scottish game.”
I know…
https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-clubs-reject-call-for-inquiry
“I have taken careful note of the concerns expressed by the minority of clubs which voted in favour and when we are back to playing football in a safe environment, I will bring clubs together to discuss the lessons learned.
……………
Someone mentioned lessons learned. earlier,maybe we could go back 8 years and learn somemore.
Initial reaction on the EGM vote:-
1. Cue the next round of litigious statements 'going forward' to further (legal) action – led, as ever, by SEVCO. The first one might even be out before I post this!
2. SMSM will report the result (less than one third at around 30%) as a 'moral victory' for the Yes 'tribe', and as a 'pyrrhic victory' for the No 'tribe'
3. Peter Lawell will now be in the 'firing line' for what has been described as a 'rousing speech' – details of which are a bit sketchy right now, but I wonder what his theme was!
What now for the ibrox club for bringing the game into disrepute?
I confess I'm a little conflicted by today's result. Rangers fans are to my mind the worst winners ever, so I really didn't want them to perceive that they had won the vote, yet I really do want to see an inquiry that might lead to a wider look the failings of the SPFL as it was/is structured.
Their lack of competence, lack of foresight, lack of progressiveness, lack of transparency, lack of ability/willingness to improve for the better and fear of anything other than a future totally based on the 2 big clubs and the attendant hatred as a selling point IS undoubtedly good reason for an inquiry.
For today's meeting, I wonder how it was structured. We're told that a small number of club CEOs made speeches, but what really interested me was how much the non-involved clubs heard about the complaints about bullying and the denials of same. Were the reps of ICT, PT, DAFC, DFC brave enough to sit round a (virtual) table and clarify exactly what they said and what they heard to lead to the accusations of bullying so that the other club heads could make up their minds whether or not there was any bullying? That would allow them to decide in favour or against. Did that sort of exploration take place or did clubs just vote the way they did for some other reason?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52631918
Tom English observing that one third of the top flight want this examination to take place, which seems even less impressive than he infers it is when one considers that 2 of the 4 voting for were sponsors of the resolution. In fairness to him he does mention that the Championship was a wipeout for the resolutioners bar ICT.
Repeat: Following their accusations of bullying etc.,ICT were the only Championship club to vote for. What were you saying Mr. Gardiner?
"……We simply cannot afford the distraction of further infighting or legal challenges..'
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Will TRFC go to law, to test the 'good prospect' of winning, now that they're not going to fund an 'inquiry'?.
John Clark 12th May 2020 at 16:43
Will TRFC go to law, to test the 'good prospect' of winning, now that they're not going to fund an 'inquiry'?.
===============================================
JC, I thought that Rangers* had a season ticket for the High Court?
Scottish Football needs to use this opportunity to deal with festering sores from 2012. And to do it transparently and fairly without any stitch ups.
According to a couple of guys some metres ahead of me in the queue , and who were wearing 32 Red logoed tops ( other bookmakers are available to impoverish you ) , this bit of local difficulty came about because the marching season was cancelled , and this was the chosen way to demonstrate that TRFC and it's acolytes are relevant and in control of Scotland , and remind the taigs of their place . I'm glad it had nothing to do with football .
ClydeSSB should be interesting tonight and being a fanboy I’m hoping RTC might offer some thoughts this evening.
Corrupt official 12th May 2020 at 15:20
13 For. 27 Against. 2 Abstained
===================================
So, 13 supported the resolution.
Which is the only number that matters.
It's a shame, as an independent inquiry would have been a better result and would hopefully have got to the bottom of things.
Hopefully everyone can just move on now, for the good of Scottish football. Well people have been saying that to me for years now.
All we will hear now is the gnashing and wailing from ra peepul . I would love Celtic to wait a few days and let the wailing build then get up and make a statement along the lines of " This is harming Scottish football lets have the Investigation if you really want one . Let us get back to some form of normality first then have it. To make sure we do it thoroughly lets go back pre 2012 and do it properly and we will once and for all have what every cub wants proper governance. Surely Tom and the BBC would unite everyone round that motion……..Reasonable(chap) suggestion dont you think …….
……Naw ?
And it's statement o'clock.
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-95/
WE note the result of the vote taken at this morning’s General Meeting and wish to thank all clubs for listening to our concerns, giving up their time to read our report and for voting.
We also wish to place on record our thanks to our fellow requisitioners, who showed courage and acted with dignity throughout. Furthermore, to those clubs who voted in favour of the resolution, we appreciate your support and recognise your desire for increased accountability at the top of our national sport.
Today’s vote has erased the false narrative of this issue simply being a conflict between one club and the SPFL. All we sought was urgently required scrutiny, respect for all member clubs, fairness and transparency.
Significantly, support for the Hearts, Stranraer and Rangers requisition spanned the four professional divisions. Member clubs, recognising the need for Scottish football to improve its governance and professionalism, have moved beyond sporting rivalries and it would be unwise to regard this result as any kind of endorsement of the SPFL executive.
A light has been shone on the SPFL’s governance and regardless of the attempts to debunk our report, there is widespread acknowledgment that it highlighted serious issues and failings which remain to be addressed.
A management culture which not only fears accountability and scrutiny, but which actively campaigns against it, is unhealthy and breeds continued mistrust. This culture, so deeply embedded, must be addressed if Scottish football is to flourish.
It is clear that many members have lost confidence in the SPFL leadership and the need for change will not diminish.
The status quo cannot hold.
The ICTFC CEO has been defended by his club chairman following the DR revelation claiming that he didn’t pursue a null and void agenda. This has been followed up by the Morton CEO making it clear that DR exclusive was in fact accurate. Will his position at ICTFC become untenable?
As the source of so much of the information that Tom English, in particular, and BBC Sportsound has used to bad mouth the SPFL will they recognise that they have probably been used?
Homunculus 12th May 2020 at 18:02
Doesn't mention the bits they made up or exaggerated . They don't like democracy , do they ? Same reaction to being outvoted on SPFL board .
Me first.
durrrren da da…….
durrren da da………
durrren da da da deeeedly da….
We , the Rangurs , the bears , ra peepul will now smear and taint the SPFL with the help of oor pals at BBC Scotland and the Meeja and try for a vote of no confidence becoz we are about to go down the plughole . We need our own placemen on the SPFL to help us when we do so that we wont have any points deducted and then we can stop that manky green and white mob winning title number 9 and a half WATP !
Extracted from the emotional TRFC statement;
"…This culture, so deeply embedded, must be addressed if Scottish football is to flourish…"
=======
Totally agree with that,
except it should be directed at the Ibrox club / company itself.
All 41 clubs – and their supporters – will continue to suffer with this abhorrent club in its midst.
IMO, Scottish football can ONLY flourish when the SPFL no longer has an Ibrox member club.
So that’s 2 significant votes in the SPFL that have not gone the way of the rebels (it’s not just The Rangers you know) Neil Doncaster gave a recorded interview to ClydeSSB which was measured and matter of fact. He expressed hope that the more immediate concerns of the SPFL would be addressed and preparations for next season could be arranged. Something tells me the rebels have other ideas.
“reasonablechap 12th May 2020 at 12:55
It’s tribal whataboutery pure and simple.
What this episode clearly reveals on here, is that the supposed common purpose of this community regards holding the Scottish football authorities to account (and not Rangers in particular) isn’t really so, at least for the majority.
The reality for most is that it’s first about Rangers and then comes the rest.
Honourable exceptions like Easyjambo, who try to remain as objective as possible, are thin on the ground.”
Maybe wind you’re neck in, and TBH you know who it was that made a mockery of the game in Scotland 2012 and brought on the mistrust of the associations and without doubt quite right.
So it is obvious most of the shambles will revolve round the newest club TheRangers, for without going into the debate it tends to be them with their same crowd who have previous and still bring into disrepute the game, never mind the chill pill as it would be of no use to you, maybe a look at your club of choice and be honest with yourself and look at the complaining and disruption they bring with businesses and football.Jog on.
"It is clear that many members have lost confidence in the SPFL leadership and the need for change will not diminish."
I've been hearing and reading bits and pieces of the significance of 31% votes for. Everybody has to, even reluctantly, admit that the vote was nowhere near what was required for victory. But some are just about saying that it's still significant and nothing to be ashamed of. Listen for it in the next 24 hours!
Imagine this was a general election. Turnout 100%. A result of 31% would be a humiliation. Embarrassing. Resignation time.
It is not almost acceptable. Two thirds voted against!
Jimbo…..Over two thirds voted against…
SFNASA
By way of light relief, let me give you my reply the FCA Complaints Investigator, from whom I received an email response yesterday:
"To: complaints@fca.org.uk Tue, 12 May at 09:54
Ms C…K…..,
Complaints Investigator,
FCA Complaints Team,
Risk and Compliance Oversight Division.
Dear Ms K…….,
Your ref: 206288445
Thank you for your emailed response of 11 May 2020 to my 'complaint'
Of course, my complaint about delay in responding to my original complaint is neither here nor there, given that I was partly responsible for it by not sending all my posted letters by recorded delivery. (That is a mistake I will not make again)
Accordingly, I decline the offer of an 'ex gratia' payment as being in no way necessary or desired.
[I have discovered , however, that it seems that there is such a thing as emails going into 'quarantine' which is some kind of email security function to do with format change in the transmission of emails. Apparently, this can only be discovered if the possibility that it has happened is specifically looked for. Perhaps I can ask you for an assurance that that possibility was considered in relation to my non-received emails? I have always understood that emails once sent ( as mine undoubtedly were!)cannot be lost ]
Of much more importance to me is the question of whether my substantial complaint, namely, that the FCA may have been in breach of its statutory duties in the matter of the authorisation of the IPO Prospectus issued by Rangers International Football Club plc in 2012, is being ,or will be, seriously examined by someone who is independent of the authoriser.
May I take your statement that you have passed my “correspondence to the Hub and they have confirmed that the information you provided will be reviewed and, if necessary, passed onto the relevant team within the FCA to form part of their supervisory work.” as an assurance that it is indeed being so examined?
If it is to be examined, I think I would expect as a complainant to hear the outcome of that examination, else what would ever be the point of raising a query on a serious matter?; but that is something I can take up with my MP, rather than with you.
Thank you again.
Yours sincerely, "
——
[I was offered an ex gratia payment of £50.00]
Having said my stuff had been passed for for review etc, there was this sentence " Due to confidentiality and policy restrictions, I am unable to tell you what action, if any, is taken as a result of this"
Hence my reference to expecting to hear the outcome of investigation, and reference to my MP. What would be the point of complaining about anything if you weren't going to hear something of the outcome?
Redlichtie LOL you wee divil! I've just spent 5 minutes trying to figure out what SFNASA meant. I'm getting old!
JC, A quite determined sounding letter. well done! And very well written.
reasonablechap 12th May 2020 at 08:17 Edit
We have reached a dark place at a particularly difficult and challenging time. The game needs to ensure it has the best possible governmental structure and individuals in place going forward.
The ongoing omnishambles at the SPFL has found that same authroity badly wanting at a crucial time. Why would you trust them in the stormy waters ahead?
We need an Independent Inquiry to shine a light on all pertinent areas so whatever governmental faults, individual responsibilities, etc. that are found, can be addressed with an eye on the future.
The SPFL mistakenly conflated issues within the resolution (infamous Good Friday Vote). Now I see this messageboard looking to conflate their resolution 12 campaign onto the current problems. I’d call the latter, tribal whataboutery.
By all means pursue whatever issues you want but this is seperate matter that needs immediate attention to give us a chance to future proof the game at a time of a real existential threat to Scottish fitbaw.
Any talk of ...but this should of happened 8 years ago and we wouldn’t have been in this mess is predictable but of no material use to the current situation, however you twist it.
===============
You can call it all you like, but the case for including past governance issues has already been well made by others, but for someone steeped in a culture of whataboutery, everything is whataboutery.
It has to be because whataboutery, stops investigation of wrong doing by self, its always the other mobs fault never your own.
On Res12 and LNS sham, shareholders of Celtic have found wrongdoing by Celtic themselves because of their involvement in the 5 Way Agreement that took jurisdiction of matters under the 5 Way away from the SFA to CAS.
Yet Celtic insisted shareholders stick with the SFA judicial process. That was the basis of the most recent resolution to take the matter, where all the evidence points to a licence gained under false pretence to UEFA, yet Celtic insisted it be left with a process rendered functus by a clause they were aware of in the 5 Way Agreement when Res12 first tabled, but refused to press SFA for answers. Poor governance? You bet your life and unlike the current issue all of it backed by evidence meaning more chance of winning the vote just lost, so perfectly valid just from a practical view to raise on SFM and consistent with its pursuit of proper governance.
It is not that covering all bases is of no use to the current situation, it is that the current situation (had it been been supported by majority of clubs) is of no use to the consistent aim of SFM of SFA/SPFL reform if its scope is limited at the start to the current situation that has no evidence to support it.
It would have been useful and more convincing in arguing the case had TRFC, having said it was about proper governace had set out all the documented instances that support an investigation rather than WhatApp conversations.
That trick of limiting scope is one those responsible for governace have been employing from 2012 and you think it appropriate to settle future matters that have been unsettled from 2011 because of limitations set then? Its like putting an elastoplast on a gangrene leg wound and wondering a week later what the smell is.
There seems to have been some commitment by Mclellan to look at the issues around the latest item of poor governace (assuming there is an SPFL left to do it) and I hear the word reconciliation now being touted about and far away that was. So I tweeted to Chris McLaughlin.
@BBCchrismclaug A stinging end to the #Rangers statement following defeat of the resolution to commission an independent investigation into SPFL. Killing off hope of reconciliation anytime soon.
Auldheid replying to
@BBCchrismclaug
Chris. Do you actually know what reconciliation requires? You must know from South Africa and Mandela that Truth is a prerequisite. Not partial truth around latest skullduggery but the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So when SPFL asked SFA to investigate handling of ebts & side letters but SFA denied the request, why is now not the time to include that event & ask SFA why they have stopped pursuing UEFA licence 2011? You cannot have reconciliation without the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth. So for reconciliation truth is needed.”
Which takes me back to your ignorant claims about whataboutery. I don’t mean ignorant as in daft or stupid, I just mean not knowing enough.
Reconciliation requires looking at oneself first, admitting with hindsight that had you the chance to go back and start again and knowing the consequences of your errors where for example no one now trusts you, you decide to make amends and if those errors hurt others seek forgiveness but give it to others also for in Scottish football EVERYBODY wronged fellow clubs in pursuing self interest.
Then and only then when the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is recognised and the past undone, can there be reconciliation.
However if you are immersed in whataboutery the last place one looks is oneself.
Homunculus 12th May 2020 at 18:02 Edit
It is clear that many members have lost confidence in the SPFL leadership and the need for change will not diminish.
The status quo cannot hold.
———————-
So it was only a power grab after all, a change in leadership? Who would have thunk it?
Now lets get after real change now TRFC and BBC have whetted the nations appetite.
Auldheid 12th May 2020 at 20:51
'..So it was only a power grab after all, a change in leadership? .'
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For the life of me, I cannot remember what was the precise wording of the TRFC resolution voted upon today? I remember something about people wanting the CEO and possibly the chairman suspended and an inquiry into the Good Friday vote.
But I have no memory of seeing the actual wording of the resolution put before the members for them to vote upon.
Can someone please post it, please?
"The SPFL and by association the SFA have left us with no alternative but to leave Scottish football and seek pastures new where professionalism and integrity are part of the fabric of their structure . We have been in discussions with Berwick Rangers regards a takeover and we are pleased to announce that the purchase of this fine institution by the 3 Bears is imminent. We shall be applying to join the English League set up at tier 12 as required by the English FA rules and work our way up the structure until we reach Premier League status . Agreement has been reached with Berwick Rangers to transfer ownership of all titles and cups won since 1872 for the nominal fee of £1 . Agreement has also been reached that they will drop the Berwick from their name and will simply be known as Rangers* . As the holding company RIFC and its subsidiary TRFC are no longer functional we will place them in the hands of an administration team along with all debts accumulated under the gross mismanagement of Mike Ashley . We intend to play in Berwick only and until we have fitted a new floating pitch and installed a casino to help fund our drive to Premiership stardom. We are sure our loyal supporters will be as excited as we are at this new venture and will as always support us all the way , that's why we are freezing season ticket prices at Ibrox where all games will be available to watch on our special beam back service . So until the new season kicks off we will sign off with our new PR Guru Tom English singing "We'll meet again" , No Surrender WATP GSTQ "
jimbo 12th May 2020 at 20:09
‘..JC, A quite determined sounding letter. .
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
And I would hope to be as determined as my letter may sound, jimbo.
I am determined to discover whether whoever in the FCA authorised the RIFC plc Prospectus had done so
-in a carelessly unresearched and culpably unprofessionally negligent belief that RFC of 1872 had not been liquidated,
-or had done so in spite of the fact that he may have known the truth but chose for whatever reason to ignore the truth
-or simply had signed the bloody thing off without a thought.
It is a simple legal fact and a football rules fact that RFC of 1872 ceased to exist.
It necessarily follows that any guys trying to market a new club on the basis that it is RFC of 1872 are being economical with the truth.
And the FCA has no business trying to provide validation for such guys.
I would insist on seeing any ‘validation’ they thought they could come up with.
Auldheid 12th May 2020 at 20:51
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Homunculus 12th May 2020 at 18:02 Edit
It is clear that many members have lost confidence in the SPFL leadership and the need for change will not diminish.
The status quo cannot hold.
———————-
So it was only a power grab after all, a change in leadership? Who would have thunk it?
Now lets get after real change now TRFC and BBC have whetted the nations appetite.
……….
One has to wonder why the need for change and the way the ibrox club went about the need for change in leadership in the SPFL after 8 years of being happy with the people in charge at the SPFL.
What happened for this sudden need for change? Aquestion i asked at near the start of this and the second placed prize money evolved into the call for Doncasters and Makenzies head, second place prize money would have paid the electricity bill if given out, but would not have been enough to ask for heads to roll.
It may all come out in the wash in the next few weeks.
Timtim 12th May 2020 at 22:01
'…..drop the Berwick from their name and will simply be known as Rangers..'
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May I suggest, in light-hearted good humour a la 'Off the Ball' kind', a wee addition :
'.thus expunging from the record books the scurrilous reference to the supposed 1967 defeat by a supposed 'Berwick Rangers' in opposition to itself!'
There is a place for humour in Scottish football.
John Clark 12th May 2020 at 22:01
For the life of me, I cannot remember what was the precise wording of the TRFC resolution voted upon today?
=============================================
Closest I can get to it John. 7 points to consider
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-94/
Corrupt official 12th May 2020 at 23:24
'..Closest I can get to it John. 7 points to consider.'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Thank you, CO.
What I was trying to find out was whether the matters put to the vote specifically included the suspension of Doncaster and McLennan, and/or any vote of no confidence in the 'leadership'.
A request for a vote of that kind would obviously signal that the proposer was looking for a demission from office of the 'leaders', so that fresh election to leadership posts would be required.
Auldheid 12th May 2020 at 20:51
Homunculus 12th May 2020 at 18:02
It is clear that many members have lost confidence in the SPFL leadership and the need for change will not diminish. The status quo cannot hold.
———————-
So it was only a power grab after all, a change in leadership? Who would have thunk it?
=================================
But a power grab by who?…..
Seems to me that Sevco had the notion they could say and do anything they wanted with impunity.
I believe that bringing the game into disrepute is the sole domain of the SFA… Bearing in mind this has been an extremely disreputable episode for Scottish fitba', (probably the worst since 2012), will SFA charges follow?
Thank you, CO.
What I was trying to find out was whether the matters put to the vote specifically included the suspension of Doncaster and McLennan
===========
I think they were telt on that one John. “Lets see the evidence first before we do anything”. Hence the “dossier”.
https://twitter.com/maryhill_fc/status/1259843711946633216?s=21
‘‘Tis the season to make statements fa la la la la la la, la la la
Corrupt official 13th May 2020 at 00:01
I believe that bringing the game into disrepute is the sole domain of the SFA… Bearing in mind this has been an extremely disreputable episode for Scottish fitba’, (probably the worst since 2012), will SFA charges follow?
…………..
May 8, 2020
Several of us have also been asked by a number of clubs what action the SPFL intends to take in relation to the gross breaches of confidentiality that have been committed by the circulation of the rangers document, including copying and publishing commercially sensitive information from the SPLS’s confidential Board report server.
It is not appropriate, in advance of the EGM, to comment further, but we will return to this important issue in due course.
Add to that the calls for the suspension of Doncaster and McLennan,the alledged calls of bullying. And they may also have a word with Stewart Robinson for ducking out of an SPFL meeting but could attend a few radio and TV interviews.
Would the Compliance officer deal with most of these matters?
Perhaps it would be good if TRFC do try to take the SPFL to court. Firstly they would have to convince the court they have a case, then they would have to prove whatever it is they are trying to prove. I don't think the courts will be interested in an argument that TRFC don't like Celtic supporters having power in Scottish football, and that honest Rangers men of the highest integrity should be in charge instead. That way the honest Rangers men of the highest integrity will always act in an honest way, with the utmost dignity, and do what they know is best for everyone, because they are better people than everyone else.
That's what it's really all about in my opinion.
Another bone of contention about to occupy Tom English? Celtic being declared Champions?
“Of course ‘The Virus Title’ will be disputed by many from hereafter…..”
(Mahe, SC)
So true. LOL ?
I remember some folk saying that the titles Celtic won whilst sevco were in the lower divisions shouldn’t count in the historical tally. Or should at least be asterisked since it was a one horse race! You would think it was said with tongue in cheek.
What is not so funny is the titles won by Rangers using EBTs with side letters. Those titles should be rescinded.
What is also not so funny is the new club being able to claim the titles won by the old club. Doncaster was one of the main spokespersons for this corruption.
He should do himself, and the rest of Scottish football, a favour before he retires back to England and admit he called it wrong at the time. That he thought it was in the best interests of the game financially or some other such shit. He wouldn’t need to go through official channels and due process. Just one interview and get it out there and get the ball rolling! A personal opinion/apology would suffice.
Good Morning
In my opinion, this dossier which was rightly binned was nothing more than a thinly disguised attempt by The Rangers, aided and abetted by a shady character with dubious credentials from a club in the north of the country, and with an eye on a job at the bigot dome, to deny Celtic their 9th title.
Their faux outrage can be seen through. Where was their integrity when they cheated the rest of Scottish Football for years? It was their last throw of the dice to gain control of Scottish Football.
I know that many have been predicting, and maybe wishing, their demise but if current rumours are true then there is a financial tsunami heading towards Govan and they will go under. This time they must not be allowed the Lazarus trick. Their fans are threatening boycotts to bring everyone else down but it won't work. They didn't bring the league down when they weren't there before.
As for Park, I think he had had his Ratner moment. He should have been more circumspect and realised that his business depends on people buying cars. It's not just Rangers supporters who buy cars. I think he has scored a spectacular own goal.
Finally, all the bluster about going to Court is hot air. Next season could be started and finished before they would get a result. On that point is it not the case that disputes must go to the CAS and not the local Courts under FIFA regulations? perhaps someone could confirm.
Time will tell if I have been unfair in my comments regarding the role of ICTFC in the Scottish football coup attempt but the reputation of the club seems to have been severely damaged by the behaviour of their CEO and whilst the support of the Chairman is admirable there must be considerable doubt as to whether he is in possession of all the facts!
A statement acknowledging that they have been used by a rogue employee, apparently with an ulterior motive, may go some way to restoring their reputation and more importantly be part of process of repairing Scottish football.
The role of BBC Sportsound in giving a platform to instigators and supporters of the coup attempt surely must be investigated. Even although the SPFL has admitted mistakes too many BBC Sportsound employees seem to “turn a deaf ear” to what they say whilst reporting other statements without question.
I also need to get a particular bugbear of mine off my chest. My real name has alternative spellings and I have no problem if people get it wrong on occasions. I am disappointed though when it is misspelled in response to an email immediately below the correct spelling. Tom English has read statements directly from Murdoch Maclennan, usually with disdain, and time after time calls him Murdoch Maclellan. He doesn’t have to agree with what is said but saying his name wrong again and again is just disrespectful!
It is being reported today that Peter Lawell called the dossier "Embarrassing", when he took his turn to address the assembled cast…..I wonder if the words "Perrmanent", "Occasional", and "Disgrace", featured also.?…..Well maybe no, "Occasional".
adam812, good point about misspelling people's names, especially in the circumstance you quote. Very disrespectful. Just remember John Clark's name doesn't have an e at the end and you will be fine!
jimbo 13th May 2020 at 09:37
'Just remember John Clark's name doesn't have an e at the end and you will be fine!'
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
There was a poster under the name ' Essexbeancounter' who never let anyone forget that fact,jimbo, always referring to John Clark(e).
I do hope he is alive and well and looking in occasionally.
A bit quiet so far, but I was wondering – is Paddy Power giving odds on today's statement(s) from the (awfi') State of Govania ?
Early front runners:-
Tainted title
Further action v SPFL
We are still 'ra peepul'
Bexct67 – plus claimed bullying of Maryhill FC into making a statement?
Scottish Football needs less statements and more social distancing of problem clubs.
Jeezo it aint half quiet today …Rest assured Im sure Mr. Park and his Motley crew at the BBC and the rest of the gang will be beavering away hatching their next cunning plan…..Brace yourselves
From Barcabhoy on Twitter. There’s more details on the twitter thread but the link can’t be copied.
“What if a Football CEO was a former business partner with someone who was fined £75 Million by the Financial Conduct Authority for operating a fraudulent investment scheme
Would you trust his contentious version of events ?
The messenger matters , (almost) everyone knows that”
Now we can see that TRFC is most certainly NOT going to do the decent thing and respect the EGM result, accept it in good grace – and move on with a wee bit of humility.
It’s simply more toys out of the pram: but it’s just words… because that is all the Ibrox has left!
Mibbees it’s Karma for 2012?
TRFC has won hee-haw – both on and off the field – since it was born 8 years ago.
(Excluding the Court of Session opinion and Petrofac Cup.)
All that the Ibrox club has to show for all its noise, anger, disruption and eye-watering losses… is a failed club teetering on the edge of the financial abyss, as always.
Mibbees TRFC was always destined to be a perennial loser, because it couldn’t find ‘an edge’ over its competitors this time?
John Clark, Yes I remember the (e) thing from a few years ago. Couldn’t remember it was Essexbeancounter though! He was a terrific poster, like you, I hope he is well.
I blagged the piece below from The Bears' Den . After reading , I sent an email to Private Eye reminding them that the club allegedly disparaged by MacLennan (or Shifty McGifty as he is termed ) in 1990 is a different club to the one presently playing home games at Ibrox , as confirmed by statements in court by its founder , Charles Green . I'll post the response if I get one , but you could always them ask for yourself if you're impatient .
roddybhoy 13th May 2020 at 11:59
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Jeezo it aint half quiet today
………….
Before the storm.
John Clark 13th May 2020 at 10:4
jimbo 13th May 2020 at 09:37
'Just remember John Clark's name doesn't have an e at the end and you will be fine!'
…………………..
I remember well when John Clarke changed to John Clark.
I think it was to shed some debt but my memory might be playing tricks.
Were you allowed to keep your medals John?
Finloch 13th May 2020 at 14:47
‘..I think it was to shed some debt but my memory might be playing tricks.’.
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Ha,ha, Finloch!
I’m just off the phone to my friend Neil .
He has very kindly offered to introduce me to one of Her Majesty’s Counsel, especially learned in the law relating to defamation, whom he himsef is presently consulting over some sports matter or other.
Ex Ludo 13th May 2020 at 12:21
From Barcabhoy on Twitter. There’s more details on the twitter thread but the link can’t be copied.
===================
I'm not on twitter ExL, but a quick google search threw up "Keydata". Being as it was a record fine there can be only one offender. Stewart Ford is named as a mentor of Scott Gardiner
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/26/investment-firm-founder-fined-record-75m-fca-stewart-ford-keydata
A further search shows Keydata has had a wee mention on SFM previously
https://archive.sfm.scot/not-in-front-of-the-children/comment-page-19/#comment-58788
DR headline : "Rangers consider legal options as club vow to keep piling pressure on SPFL
The Ibrox club failed to secure the 75 per cent threshold to trigger an independent investigation but are determined to fight on."
"Rangers won support from Premiership clubs Aberdeen and Livingston, while 40 per cent of clubs in Leagues One and Two also sided with them."
To put this extremely skewed analysis in perspective :
– only two Premier clubs supported Rangers*
– 64% overall voted against the Rangers* motion.
– only one Championship club voted in favour.
Embarrassing as someone apparently said.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Corrupt official 13th May 2020 at 16:13
'.Stewart Ford is named as a mentor of Scott Gardiner'
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Well done, CO: I was going round in circles trying to find that out.
A very short statement from the SFSA. I feel a bit more explanation of how they came to their findings would be helpful. Personally I don't feel it adds anything new to the debate apart from possibly giving Tom English a nice big percentage (84%) to quote without any explanation of what the figure is based on.
https://twitter.com/scottishfsa/status/1260561264851529729?s=19
John Clark 13th May 2020 at 16:47
Name checked here John.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/north-of-scotland/1902754/i-genuinely-believe-my-greatest-achievement-has-still-to-come/
It would seem that the only legal recourse for TRFC is to allege that the EGM was invalid and/or corrupted in some way?
In other words the Ibrox club is now moaning out of its metaphorical @rse!
Can someone please tell the Blue Room to just give it a rest now?
It's way past embarrassing for them…
CorruptOfficial@16.13
You may say that but I couldn’t possibly comment.
StevieBC 13th May 2020 at 17:18
‘…It would seem that the only legal recourse for TRFC is to allege that the EGM was invalid and/or corrupted in some way?’
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
I think they queered their own pitch. By requisitioning a resolution, they self-defeatingly ensured that the membership as a whole by their majority vote, legitimised the Board’s actions and decisions.
I cannot see how they can now seek legal redress just because they lost the vote: no Court in the land would interfere with a business decision made by a poll of the full membership of a private company.
Unless, of course, the reference to going to law is a reference to suing their lawyers!
Phil latest.
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/05/13/considerable-chagrin-in-the-blue-room-at-their-championship-thrashing/
There was a poster under the name ‘ Essexbeancounter’ who never let anyone forget that fact,jimbo, always referring to John Clark(e).
I do hope he is alive and well and looking in occasionally.
===========================================
He is indeed alive and well and looking in constantly JC(e)…many thanks for your kind thoughts…especially after all these years…how many did you say…?…Eight?
I would remind all bloggers that I still have blagging rights to the John Clark(e) moniker from all those years ago…
Nice to see Hoopy and NR Cat1 re-appearing and posting…is this a harbinger of some cataclysmic or administration event?
essexbeancounter 13th May 2020 at 20:59
'…He is indeed alive and well and looking in constantly JC(e)…'
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Well, well, well…..I am really, really pleased to hear that, ebc!
On your blagging rights, can I suggest a good QC? ( see my post of 15.08 this afternoon)
Good to have you back.
On your blagging rights, can I suggest a good QC? ( see my post of 15.08 this afternoon)
=========================================================
JC (ok I will stop!!!), you are defaulting to type here…acting as the “barrack room lawyer” as that miscreant poster described you the other day…
Then again, you have probably spent far too much time in the courts over the years on behalf of the site…
The security question pops up again and tbf if I was going to lend 5m to RIFC/TRFC I would want some rock solid security as well . I had considered whether King has security based on future transfer fees but if an admin event occurred then players could be released from their contracts so that wouldn't work and in any case may well be illegal . Could King have done a ticketus on next seasons STs ? would that show up in Companies House records ? The only other thing of value is the stadium which raises the question of the deeds again , now I really am confused …..again.
Corrupt Official posted at 16.13 a link to the archives in 2013. So many good posters no longer around here!
Then I clicked on 'recent comments' on the page and it took me to 2 Jan. 2018 for some reason! I was there so I had a look to see what I was saying. Nothing of importance! But I noticed a poster I really liked. Miss Jean Brodie! I hope she is well too.
Please don’t forget the current MSSM EBT recipients in these hard times: and dare not question impartiality:
Alex Rae £569,000.00 Clyde SSB
Neil McCann £500,000.00 BBC Payroll
Billy Dodds £169,000.00 BBC Payroll
Steven Thompson £485,000.00 BBC Payroll
Not to mention the MSSM columnists:
Kris Boyd £215,000.00
Barry F £2,500,000.00
jimbo 13th May 2020 at 22:06
Miss Jean Brodie! I hope she is well too.
……….
If Jean looks in i better get my spelling and punctuation up to date.;-)
Timtim 13th May 2020 at 21:54
Could King have done a ticketus on next seasons STs ? would that show up in Companies House records ?
………………
Something i spoke to someone about the other day when i read about the ibrox fans having issues with their season ticket renewals.
….
Rangers supporters who received emails that their season tickets have been cancelled will still be able to renew after it emerged a mixup with payment procedures caused confusion.
Fans were left angry when the website crashed following renewal emails being sent out and supporters then reported that their tickets had been cancelled despite them already paying.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-season-ticket-mix-up-21983796
………..
Just felt something strange about the whole thing.
Maybe i’m just getting too suspicious these days.
Timtim 13th May 2020 at 21:54
'..Could King have done a ticketus on next seasons STs ?'
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I don't suppose King personally would be legally able to have done that on his own authority, Timtim.
A majority of the Board ( i.e. any combination of two or more individuals whose combined voting power constituted a 'majority' of the total shareholdings) would have to authorise a decision to pawn the stadium for a wee loan to tide them over to a European success pay-day.
These days, any lender to a company whose business is football would probably think they might be on a good thing in lending to any football club on the security of the property and land owned by that club.
There is a fair chance that the industry of football might die the death , or at best survive only as a much reduced and impoverished sport, and that ,in consequence , a borrower may default on its repayments.
But what would Ticketus do with a football stadium and associated appurtenances? Would they lend to a football club these days?
Whereas, perhaps, someone in, say, Japan, interested in a site that might wonderfully and easily be converted into a brilliantly placed location for a transport logistics company may think a wee loan that might very ,very easily be defaulted upon, might be very happy indeed to lend.
And , perhaps, offer some inducements to achieve that lender status.
Deferred wages shouldn’t be a problem for some. VAT has been kicked further down the road for now. Consider it a short term interest free loan.
If you choose to defer paying your VAT
If you choose to defer your VAT payment as a result of coronavirus, you must pay the VAT due on or before 31 March 2021.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/deferral-of-vat-payments-due-to-coronavirus-covid-19
stifflersmom 13th May 2020 at 22:50
Please don’t forget the current MSSM EBT recipients in these hard times: and dare not question impartiality:
Alex Rae £569,000.00 Clyde SSB
Neil McCann £500,000.00 BBC Payroll
Billy Dodds £169,000.00 BBC Payroll
Steven Thompson £485,000.00 BBC Payroll
Not to mention the MSSM columnists:
Kris Boyd £215,000.00
Barry F £2,500,000.00
======================
It's worth mentioning that Rae, Boyd, and Ferguson all still contribute to Sportsound from time to time and I think it is fair to assume they will receive licence fee money for doing so. So that is no less than six people, who all illegally withheld tax from HMRC, being paid from the public purse and given a platform for their pro-Rangers views.
This is not a new thing of course with the BBC, and over the past ten years we have been subjected to Gordon Smith, Sandy Clark, Derek Ferguson, Craig Paterson, Walter Smith, Alex McLeish, and also pro-Rangers journalists Kenny MacIntyre, Richard Wilson, James Traynor, Chick Young, Roddy Forsyth, Keith Jackson, Darryl Broadfoot. Such a heavy imbalance towards Rangers can be no co-incidence, it has to be by design.
I once had an e-mail debate with a former Sportsound Producer about this. I got his e-mail when the BBC had not answered a complaint I made for months, and a friend gave me the e-mail address of the head of BBC Scotland at the time. The next day I was contacted by the Sportsound Producer. I have dug the e-mail out and two themes stand out
1) There is no requirement to ensure balance in the way there would be on a BBC Political programme.
2) The pundits Sportsound use can be relied upon to be fair no matter their past affiliations.
Make of those points what you will, but it is undeniable in my view that the policy of Sportsound is to employ more people with an affiliation to Rangers than to any other club, and has been for decades. No matter what any Producer past or present says, that is going to result in a lack of balance. Interestingly he at no time denied they employed more Rangers minded people…well he couldn't could he!
Jock Stein once threw the BBC out of Celtic Park. Archie Macpherson has commented on numerous occasions that pro-Rangers bias existed during his time there. What has ever changed, and if it has when did it happen?
stifflersmom 13th May 2020 at 22:50
Please don’t forget the current MSSM EBT recipients in these hard times: and dare not question impartiality:
Alex Rae £569,000.00 Clyde SSB
Neil McCann £500,000.00 BBC Payroll
Billy Dodds £169,000.00 BBC Payroll
Steven Thompson £485,000.00 BBC Payroll
Not to mention the MSSM columnists:
Kris Boyd £215,000.00
Barry F £2,500,000.00
==========================================
Trying to be helpful to our esteemed SMSM perhaps they could ask this simple question of the above gents?
“With the financial crisis in Scottish Football, can you tell us when you will be repaying your interest free EBT loans?”
Just those named above alone are due to pay back around £4.5m.
What’s the likely deficit at Ibrokes?
Note : I don’t recall what the mechanism was for final repayment. There was some insurance deal I think but it was all a bit hazy. I seem to remember the funds then stayed with the Trust? If not they would probably go back to the OC. A result for the long-suffering creditors?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Timing is everything as they say and to underline that point BBC Scotland have done a wee piece on the 2008 UEFA Cup run by RFC. Several EBT recipients feature prominently in the squad which got the club all the way to Manchester. Needless to say there is no mention of the carnage which was inflicted on that city before, during and after the game. It’s like the unsavoury parts of that particular journey never happened.
https://twitter.com/bbcsportscot/status/1260833909857824770?s=21
Re the EGM vote, this 'pearl of wisdom' from Alan Rough has fair cheered me up:-
" What would they have done if it had been 50 -50? "
Now that the dust has settled on Tuesday’s EGM, which saw Neil Doncaster’s unlikely transformation from devil incarnate to evil-slaying deity, it’s worth noting what he also said a few days ago, but which went virtually unnoticed, on the subject of league reconstruction and broadcasting contracts.
Before doing so, I’d suggest that most football supporters would agree with me that we, the fans, are the most important group of people involved in football, not least because without us, there would be no game. Maybe somebody on SFM will prove me wrong but I have yet to meet (or read of) even one supporter who is in favour of either a ten or twelve team top league. Most people seem to favour sixteen teams in the Premiership, while fourteen or even eighteen seem preferable to ten or twelve in most people’s minds, at least according to my admittedly limited and less-than-scientific study.
Club owners come and go, as do Chairmen, CEOs, managers, coaches and players, and while they’re all important, every single one of them is expendable. Fans on the other hand?
Once match attendances start to decline, as they have been doing for decades now, it is all but impossible to reverse the trend, an important factor when you consider that Scottish clubs are heavily reliant on matchday income compared to other nations.
It would probably be worth investigating if there is a direct correlation between the decline in match attendances, the quality of home-produced players and the abject failure of our national team since the advent of matches kicking off at times and on days other than the traditional 3pm on a Saturday.
What has all of this got to do with Doncaster you might ask? Well, he has openly admitted that broadcasters dictate the size of our league – the sixteen team set up that most fans would prefer, in order to avoid repetitively playing the same old teams over and over again, four times a season – isn’t feasible because broadcasters apparently insist on four Celtic/Rangers* league matches per season. As I alluded to in a previous post, what happens if either of these two clubs finish in the bottom half of the league post-split, have a poor season and are relegated, or maybe just lose their <cough> operating company to liquidation? Would the SPFL have to reimburse the broadcaster? Has Doncaster given broadcasters assurances that none of these scenarios will happen? How could he, without 'fixing' the game?
I’m not so naïve as to think that money isn’t essential to the Scottish game, but in an era where we critisise UEFA for creating and maintaining a clique of elite clubs driven purely by money-creating motivation, isn’t it time that Doncaster and the SPFL were told who their ultimate customers are – who they represent – without whom they wouldn’t exist – and that money is secondary to integrity?
If all that Doncaster and the SPFL have in their defence is that they can’t do what the fans want because their hands are tied by contracts they negotiated, contracts worth a pittance compared to those of other countries of a similar size and standard of play, let’s bring in somebody on a £360k salary who is capable of negotiating favourable contracts.
Is it beyond the wit of a football authority to start from a position of optimal league size and set up, before negotiating contracts utilising a professional negotiator with a proven track record, rather than having the league set up dictated to you by a broadcaster whose primary concerns are viewing figures and match scheduling?
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18441736.spfl-chief-executive-neil-doncaster-legal-threats-reconstruction-sky-deal-healing-wounds/
Highlander 14th May 2020 at 12:16
All these broadcasting contracts. and league sponserships seem to be up for renewal everytime an ibrox club is at deaths door.
A wee bit of a distraction, this amazing puff-piece appeared in the England-shire edition of the Times on the 5th of May. Not sure if it made the Scottish edition. But looks like we have the ideal candidate to replace Doncaster as he has been a striker, and actor, now a radio pundit but hes also not a bad dad.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ally-mccoist-i-had-a-wicked-relationship-with-sue-barker-she-was-more-than-a-match-for-me-z8ck3hrpg.
It is written by Henry Winter, ex of the Telegraph and now Chief Football Writer at the Times. It contains this gem……. on 2011 when taking over from Walter Smith. McCoist '……It all went pear-shaped with the sale to Craig Whyte.' The bold Henry then informs his readers……
The Scottish businessman bought the controlling interest from Sir David Murray in 2011 but under his financial mismanagement Rangers tumbled into administration and into the Third Divison.
Interestingly Winters studied at Edinburgh University so should have a good grounding in Scottish fitba, he was also the ghost writer of Steven Ge55ards autobiography.
According to this article admittedly coming from the Daily Record, The Rangers have been given a license to play in Europe by the SFA?
#Hmmm #Really
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-sfa-rates-your-club-16498008?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
Cygnus X-1, the article you refer to is dated 11.06.19. It’s 2020 now, in case you hadn’t noticed…
‘By Record Sport Online
08:37, 11 JUN 2019 UPDATED 08:42, 11 JUN 2019’
Haha sorry Jimbo seen on twitter and posted it while working at the same time
Just ignore please
Not guilty cygnus!
Was interesting reading anyhow
Fitba' may resume, but that is no indication of club health in Scotland. Being more reliant on bums on seats than other nations, that can only be determined to be the primary indicator. Bums on seats will be dictated by safety factors, from a starting point of zero, progressing at a pace and percentage increase unknown.
Under such a scenario, it is feasible that although clubs may be available at the starting blocks, some may fall a few hurdles down the track, throwing a fixture list spanner into an already rickety meccanno tower, the likes of which may be catastrophic.
Like it or not, smaller clubs budget provides for the arrivals of visiting fans from larger clubs. Should this not happen we may witness a domino event if a larger club trips up. However all is not lost and precautions can be implemented to mitigate such a scene. Emergency rulings can be made if need be. As it is the cash rich portion of the season a bond can be posted, (as per Livingstone),pro-rata priced from large clubs to small, being that the visit of a couple of hundred fans will have little impact comparatively with a budget plan expecting a couple of thousand.
Clubs should be ordered to submit club accounts to the SPFL for independent confidential audit before inclusion in the fixture lists, with the league provided only simple yes or no by the auditors.
Clubs may have thought they had a business plan, but with an unknown starting date, bums on seats figures, and disposable income levels unknown, they really don't and must not be permitted to gamble with the future of fellow club's season.
While there is time, help must be provided to all clubs, (by the league),whatever, and wherever possible, whether it be re-structuring advice, budgeting, even partial bond claw-backs as the season progresses.
This bond, or entrance fee, places clubs in the exact same position as their fans. If you don't have a ticket, you don't get in.
Fitba' without fans is nothing, but fitba' without clubs is also nothing, especially if they bugger off before the 2nd hauf. Its no biggee if watching fans witnessing a pumping do it. They have already paid their entrance fee. Clubs should too.
To hell with what the clubs say, and I am not fooled by the argument that clubs don't want any form of FFP. The SPFL is a members club. Try wearing studded golf shoes into the 19th hole.
There are rules attached to membership imposed by the golf club. Standards if you will.
Scottish fitba' which is still in a precarious position, cannot absorb another crisis on top. There is time to take precautionary measures to if not avoid a club falling, at least to limit the fall-out.
Relevant article but not sure about the opening paragraph?
https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/news/business-health-statistics/scottish-football-clubs-pushed-to-brink-of-insolvency-by-coronavirus-crisis-despite-good-management-and-prior-health
Featured in The Herald sport today.
It's a tough time for everybody just now, and it's going to be tough for all senior clubs for some time to come – even after all the restrictions have been lifted.
In that vein: whilst I was perusing the SFA website today, it became apparent that the blazered buffoons are totally detached from reality.
The SFA website is advertising 'Scotland Supporters Club Memberships'. Apart from a couple of freebies and discounts, the main purpose of joining is to get priority access to buy tickets for games.
To join, it's £50 for adults. That's £50 to buy the privilege of being allowed to buy overpriced match tickets.
And that's for a perennially underachieving team, which plays its home fixtures at an outdated Athletics stadium.
Out of curiosity I followed the SFA website link to the merchandising. An adult Scotland top is £65!
A kids top is £50!
And that is before any personalisation with printed name/number on the back of the top.
Even if we had a decent Scotland team of the 70's / 80's, those are still outrageous prices, IMO.
Hell mend the SFA.
Highlander 14th May 2020 at 12:16
Now that the dust has settled on Tuesday’s EGM, which saw Neil Doncaster’s unlikely transformation from devil incarnate to evil-slaying deity …
=======================================
He really didn't, well not anywhere I have seen, and I certainly don't think so.
Begbies Traynor report here :
https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/assets/uploads/pdfs/5559_SCOTLAND%20Football%20Report%20final.pdf
amjartmarquez 14th May 2020 at 13:19
tumbled into administration and into the Third Divison.
……..
Tumbled.
Takes note and adds to
Demoted
Relegated.
Dropped down.
Highlander
"As I alluded to in a previous post, what happens if either of these two clubs finish in the bottom half of the league post-split, have a poor season and are relegated, or maybe just lose their <cough> operating company to liquidation? Would the SPFL have to reimburse the broadcaster? Has Doncaster given broadcasters assurances that none of these scenarios will happen? How could he, without 'fixing' the game?"
======================
I agree and I think such a contract places a moral hazard on Scottish football. Picture the scenario, it is the last game before the split, Celtic (or "Rangers") require a draw or win to get a place in the top six. No matter the opposition or worse if against each other, if one or three points are not won then no fourth game between Celtic and "Rangers".
What are the chances of either failing to get the needed result and how unfair if against a team in the same position of needing a point or 3 to get their top six place?
Yet no one questions it. The contract cannot be written in such a way that 4 games are guaranteed and I wonder if it is.
Auldheid 14th May 2020 at 19:32
'..The contract cannot be written in such a way that 4 games are guaranteed and I wonder if it is."
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
If the contract is indeed written in such a way that it could , however remote the possibility, require the League to ensure that a match-fixing arrangement had to be resorted to (as in the scenario you paint, Auldheid) then the contract must be in itself illegal and therefore unenforceable.
No one can be bound in law to break the law!
I imagine that the contract merely insists that 4 games be scheduled but not absolutely guaranteed to take place where the rules of football supervene.
But it would be nice to know for sure, knowing as we do that there are people in football who would not hesitate to fix a match for the sake of filthy lucre or tell downright lies for cash.
Are the real reasons for TRFC'S unhappiness with Doncaster and the SFA now becoming apparent.
I list them below for easy reference:
The SFA, having been bitten once before, have asked for properly audited interim accounts to support the UEFA application and not the work of complete fiction they normally label interims.
Doncaster refused to contemplate the null and void visionary approach to deny Celtic 9IAR.
Doncaster refused to advance TRFC a loan in the absence of any evidence to demonstrate an ability to repay it.
Doncaster refused to advance any of the expected prize money until the League was concluded.
Doncaster was not receptive to their financial plight and proposed restructuring and may have been arguing that the existence of the 5 Way agreement means a 25 point deduction for an insolvency event.
Doncaster was not able to be bullied by TRFC and post the insolvency event a CEO with a bad attitude like that is unacceptable.
I haven't seen anything confirming the DR story about no top tier club having a problem with CFC being named champions , nor have I seen it reported elsewhere . Are the meeting minutes available anywhere ?
Bogs Dollox 14th May 2020 at 21:21
Doncaster was not receptive to their financial plight and proposed restructuring and may have been arguing that the existence of the 5 Way agreement means a 25 point deduction for an insolvency event.
……………
I can’t remember, but i believed they changed the rules on the points deduction for administration. but if they did not i think it would not be 25 points as 5 years have past.
“Because of that it was decided to persevere with the current system, which sees clubs handed a 15-point penalty for entering administration and 25 points if it happens again within a five-year period.
11 Feb 2014
…………
Just a reminder.
bordersdon 14th May 2020 at 15:57
Relevant article but not sure about the opening paragraph?
https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/news/business-health-statistics/scottish-football-clubs-pushed-to-brink-of-insolvency-by-coronavirus-crisis-despite-good-management-and-prior-health
Featured in The Herald sport today.
————————
Me neither unless someone made a grant of £10M that is in the books.
Hub stadiums?
https://spfl.co.uk/news/coronavirus-joint-response-group-update-46672
Aye it maybe reduce stewarding costs, but does anyone know how long that wee virus can loiter on plastic seats and other surfaces?. Then there is the public transport to consider.
Begbies beggar belief. Not sure I’d want them as an advisor for any company I was involved with.
Having said that their website sets them out as giving “Confidential Business Rescue Advice” with expertise as “Licensed Insolvency Practitioners – the UK’s No.1 for Business Recovery”. Perhaps they are facilitating future business?
So persistent loss-making, Going Concern warnings, huge debt, cold-shouldering, lack of regular banking facilities and a stated need for £10m just to carry on business in normal circumstances are not red flags. Unsure then just what would be enough to given them pause for thought.
Scottish Football needs strong FFP regulations.
Cluster One 14th May 2020 at 21:53
'.. which sees clubs handed a 15-point penalty for entering administration and 25 points if it happens again within a five-year period.'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Of course, in the interests of intellectual consistency and moral Truth, it has to be clearly stated that TRFC has not ever been in Administration., so when it does suffer an insolvency event it will be for the first time so the 5-year period is neither here nor there.
I
From the DR online
by Mark McDougall& Jonathan McFarlane
"….The Hoops are set to be awarded the trophy with Record Sport exclusively revealing this morning that a video conference is to be set for this afternoon…"
On the 4th of May the DR reported that ” The Ibrox side have promised to reveal the partnership imminently” in regards to the leaked kit deal with Castore. As noted before the term imminent can be an inordinate length of time when emanating from Ibrox eg, the NOMAD , the floating pitch, the share issue, the far east investment …… we are still to hear an official announcement that this deal is done , a convenient squirrel at the time or trouble at mill ?
Timtim
Follow the nuts
tony 15th May 2020 at 11:02
I though marching season was cancelled T.
I see Sevco are still having "Glitches" with their ST collections. I was reading this morning that the company involved (Sporting Pay Ltd), was a new start-up one-man band operation. Hardly the kind of firm one would expect the world's most successful club to be using.
FYI
The reply to my email about the Eye’s trivial fix on Shifty McGifty – to the neglect of what we may see as more pertinent FFP concerns – simply plays a very straight bat…
“While of course self-interest is a huge factor in every opinion expressed by Rangers and all other Scottish clubs at the moment, the article in Eye 1521 was specifically about the current Covid-related crisis at the SPFL, in which MacLennan has played a prominent part; Rangers were not the focus of the article. Not that we have ignored Rangers over the years: our own Slicker documented in copious detail the unravelling of Rangers under Craig Whyte.
As for the idea that the fact MacLennan disliked the club in the 1990s might be irrelevant now as this is a new, phoenix club, it seems highly unlikely that anyone who felt that way then would feel any different now just because the company has a different trading name. While the club’s rebirth was a significant legal/business event, in football terms the new club still plays at the same stadium, in the same colours, with the same fans as before.”
Corrupt official 15th May 2020 at 12:17
'.the company involved (Sporting Pay Ltd), was a new start-up one-man band operation.'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Company number 11551586 , incorporated 04/09/2018, Statement of Capital £1.00. Shares allotted 1, fully paid up, One shareholder.
Accounts made up to 30/09/20019:
Total assets less current liabilities £ 1,301
——–
No harm to the small businessman [something I've had neither the talent nor the gumption to try]
but for a 'football giant ' to have to penny-pinch in the important area of pulling in revenue?
fishnish 15th May 2020 at 13:13
‘…The reply to my email about the Eye’s trivial fix on Shifty McGifty’
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
That reply, fishnish, shows that the Eye guys are of the same stamp as our SMSM: get themselves tied in linguistic knots trying to avoid the truth:
‘new, phoenix club,’ in one breath followed by ‘just because the company has a different trading name’, followed by ‘ club’s rebirth was a significant legal/business’ followed by ‘new club still plays at the same stadium,(as if it could have played there before it existed!)
There is almost a satonic level of support for the Big Lie!
fishnish 15th May 2020 at 13:13
Signed by Maisie ? Identical to the response I received and probably just the name used in replies regardless which reporter/other responds . ! I've asked how they surmised Mr MacLennan felt the same way about the new club as he allegedly did about the old one ie have they asked him . I'll let you know if I get a response .
I actually noted those “wee linguistic knots” in my response to their reply, JC. Ta. 🙂
Wish I’d coined ‘satonic’, though…. that would have got the Eye gal, who’d written the response, wondering…
ps Just saw your post, Paddy.
Aye – Maisie.
Over the last few weeks some clubs have been playing political games for reasons as yet unspecified.
Some have been equally busy in other ways but you won't read about it in the MSM.
I was sent this today and felt that it shows that football can still be a power for good in any community.
Well done guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_4GJ9HxR8A&feature=youtu.be
Phil
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/05/15/difficult-questions-from-ireland/
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/05/15/more-questions-from-ireland/
One of Phil's pieces is about Rangers accounts and a Euro licence.
I could be wrong, but amidst all the flak flying around these past few weeks I am positive at some point Doncaster stated that in the event of the top league being called, the SFA have already told the SPFL who the Euro places go to, and Rangers were one of them.
Sorry I have long since taken Phil's predictions from "impeccable sources" and "rugger guy" (are they more intelligent than fitba guys?) as so much click bait! Don't take them seriously at all these days. Very quiet on here today? Where are the jambos? I miss them! Surely this site will not morph in to just a Celtic site? Yes JC the Big Lie needs to be exposed but there are other issues? I have been berated for suggesting such before but I fear that the site is doomed to be just that.
bordersdon 15th May 2020 at 21:03
'..,'Yes JC the Big Lie needs to be exposed but there are other issues? I have been berated for suggesting such before but I fear that the site is doomed to be just that.'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
There are of course other issues, bordersdon, many of them getting an airing on SFM by people with good points to make and interesting ways and reasoned ways of making them .
The underlying truth, however, is that unless the Big Lie of the 5-Way Agreement is rescinded , and the Res 12 issue properly investigated, there is no honesty in the game.
Covid-19 might help get rid of the rotten fruit, and force our Sport to reform and adapt itself for the betterment of all.
Otherwise, who will seriously give a tuppenny toss, -or a fistful of fivers to attend a match in a sport which is living on a lie?
tony 15th May 2020 at 11:02
Timtim
Follow the nuts
———–
I did just that Tony but they all bolted
JC @ 21.25
Otherwise, who will seriously give a tuppenny toss, -or a fistful of fivers to attend a match in a sport which is living on a lie?
—————————————————————-
50K season book holders at Celtic park for a start John! Your principles are admirable and I admire your indefatigability (tm G Galloway) but as in most things sadly money will win.
bordersdon 15th May 2020 at 21:03
Very quiet on here today? Where are the jambos? I miss them!
………..
They have only been away a couple of days. If i was in their shoes i also would have a few days of quiet reflection. If you have a look around a few sites they are all quite when there is no football.
….
Big Lie needs to be exposed but there are other issues?
…
The stage is yours.
………………
Surely this site will not morph in to just a Celtic site?
……….
There has only been 4 mentions of celtic on this page, 2 in the same line as rangers and 2 mentioned in your own posts and one CFC mention by someone. hardly a celtic site.
Can I say that there have been zero refereeing controversies recently ? I can't mind if we're meant to be supporting them against unfair criticism , or castigating them for a catalogue of bloomers . How do you blow a whistle through a mask ? Will the refs be fit ? Fit for purpose ?
paddy malarkey 15th May 2020 at 22:37
The last whitle-blower went for a pea Paddy, and splashed not only his own brogues, but also an Inverness Caber Tosser standing beside him. Seems his whistle was full of holes…Clearly his flute lessons were a waste of money.
Don't want to be/sound controversial BUT just a thought about a lot of the clubs/fans who are complaining about governance etc etc. Surely they have nothing to complain about, the reason I say this is that over the years didn't they have the chance to change the voting structure but each time they failed to take it (can't blame the 2 cheeks as other teams fans often describe them) it was the boards of the various teams that failed their fans. As for the predicament that Hearts find themselves in is really down to Anne Budge this season for some reason keeping faith in a manager/director of football(surely you can't do both at the same time) when everyone could see he was struggling as the manager so really it is the boards of your clubs that you should be asking questions off. I also think while the CFC board have handled the last few weeks really well they have dirty hands as well ref resolution 12 etc and obviously the SPFL board have looked very amateurish as they have done for a long time, so I think it is correct for the fans to ask questions but please ask the boards of the clubs who are threatning legal action etc first. SORRY FOR THE RANT HOPE I DIDN'T OFFEND TO MANY PEOPLE
Finloch 15th May 2020 at 16:47
==============================
Fan-tastic.
Clearly Spartans is an organisations which would be a positive in the SPFL.
It's a pity they didn't get the SFL place when they were entitled to it.
J.C.
DM'ed you.
Kentes 15th May 2020 at 23:34
Offended me with those loud words at the end .
Bundesliga resumes today, 4 matches behind closed doors. On BT Sport from 1400.
bordesperson @ 21.03
I, for one, certainly do not apologise for venting my feelings about ridiculous propaganda being promoted principally affecting CFC – this site gives me the freedom to do this in a (hopefully responsible) manner!
So, regarding the fatuous and 'mythical' asterisk – which has grown 'arms and legs', driven by Sevco and its apologists…
Who, other than the embittered 8 year old club and its retinue/apologists (SMSM, legends like Alex Rae , Gavin Rae – around 70 appearances between them) is going to endorse and/or accept this wholly embarrassing fantasy? SPFL? UEFA? Impartial observers and reporters? Celtic?
We're not talking about an injustice here ffs!!!!
It's an added irony that there will be no talk on these shores of these notations for Liverpool ( could you imagine the stooshie that would cause?) and winners of premier trophies in other countries. Oh, and well done Dundee United!
In the real, wider footballing community i.e outside the narrow, pathetic confines of Govan where no contrition for 'inherited' past misdemeanours, humility, acceptance, acting in the honourable manner exist, there will surely be no asterisks.
Finally, I can honestly say that, having been brought up on a different value base from that as practised by those of the WATP mentality, I would have accepted the situation had the 'boot been on the other foot'.
I would not have 'given myself a riddy' by behaving in any other way, debasing myself and abandoning my principles.
I have a sense that there will be statements regarding the 'asterisk' saga (SG anyone?) but for now I would say to anyone trying to detract from Celtic's achievement ..
The milk has been spilt – deal with it!
bect67 16th May 2020 at 11:56
================================
The asterisk is nonsense, what is it supposed to denote.
The league can be finalised (3 of the 4 parts of it already have been). It's already in the rules.
A4
Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;
So as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping the SFPL board saying, it will be impossible to play the last games of the season. With a majority of the clubs' agreement we have decided to finish the season as per the leagues own rules, which allows us to pay out the "prize" money each team is owed.
Most people now believe this will happen in the top division as well, which makes perfect sense.
If it is done, then it's not a case of awarding the title to anyone, it just happens as a matter of course.
C38
The Club occupying position one in the League at the end of a Season shall be declared the Champion Club of the League and shall hold the "The Scottish Professional Football League Championship Trophy" until the next Season's League Competition is concluded.
Given that the league (in it's entirety) would be closed then the team at the top of the league would be champions, that is Celtic. It's as simple as that.
So the league would be finished, Celtic would be the champions, no need for any asterisk.
As a famous cricketer once said, when his opponent complained "That was never out". "Have a look in the papers tomorrow, I think you'll find it was". Paraphrasing obviously.
Homunculus 16th May 2020 at 13:38
The asterisk is nonsense, what is it supposed to denote.
=================
I think we all know that it is designed to somehow demean Celtic. It is quite incredible that many of the people promoting it were part of a period in time when Rangers were illegally using taxpayers money to fund success on the pitch, and benefited from that illegal tax evasion on a personal basis.
On another note it seems reconstruction is back on the table after Friday's meeting. If something can be done to help clubs who were going to have relegation forced upon them then I for one will be happy.
The rest we can leave Rangers to address through the courts if need be
I watched the first half of Dortmund (2) v Schalke (0) and was underwhelmed . It's like a pre-season friendly .
Totally baffled at the statement below from the BBC website on the resumption of reconstruction talks
It follows a top-flight club meeting yesterday where key members, including Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen
What possible reason could there be not to write Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers in natural alphabetic order? No doubt many will see that view as petty, but it shows just where we are regarding many in the media. Why must Rangers be mentioned first more often than not?
Is the Ibrox club going to stage another very public tantrum – this time against the SFA, if it dares to refuse a Euro license because TRFC is, erm, fu… I mean skint!
Still unsure about this though as Petrie – of the 5WA in 2012 – seems to be the main decision maker at the SFA today.
But then again, Doncaster bent over for the Ibrox club as well in 2012, yet he has now been ungratefully targeted by the Blue Room.
Would be quite helpful if RIFC/TRFC went bust before we get into planning for next season.
It’s the least they could do…
There is apparently a big reveal by RIFC/TRFC at 09.00 tomorrow . Interim accounts ? New strip supplier ? Refunds for unplayed games ? Signing Hagi ? Congratulating CFC on their record-equalling achievement ? Scott Gardiner appointed media supremo ? January's investment cash finally arriving ? Share issue ? Any other suggestions ?
paddy malarkey 16th May 2020 at 20:34
Any other suggestions ?
=================================
The largest squirrel in ever released into the wild.
Der schottische Fußball braucht einen starken Arbroath ??
al62 16th May 2020 at 21:02
Der schottische Fußball braucht einen starken Arbroath ??
====================================
Ja!
paddy malarkey 16th May 2020 at 20:34
There is apparently a big reveal by RIFC/TRFC at 09.00 tomorrow…
===========
At 9AM on a Sunday morning – during a lockdown???
Who’s going to be awake?
Unless it’s to satisfy a different time zone audience?
Oh, I know, I know!
Morelos is finally off to China for £40M / £50M / £60M …?
paddy malarkey @ 20.34
In a squirrel’s nutshell! …
“We’ve seen the error of our ways, and will now send ourselves onto the naughty step”
From The Guardian .
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/08/covid-19-impact-on-football-10-years-get-back-where-we-were-managers-players-scout
paddy malarkey 16th May 2020 at 20:34
…….
Another statement about nothing
paddy malarkey 16th May 2020 at 20:34
'.There is apparently a big reveal by RIFC/TRFC at 09.00 tomorrow .'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I don't doubt it, pm, but can you give your source, please?
Some of us auld guys are not quite into twitter or the blogs of other clubs or other electronic sources.
Sorry , JC , my daughter told me , and she saw it on either Rangers Media or Follow Follow . I trust my sources !
The old memory is perhaps not as absorbent as it once was, but on reading back a page or two I was struck by the name of a poster and could not for the life of me remember having seen the name before.
'Kentes 15th May 2020 at 23:34'.
I can't quite see what he may be driving at.
He makes the points that over the years
'..it was the boards of the various teams that failed their fans ' when it came to 'changing the voting structure''
and that
'.the predicament that Hearts find themselves in is really down to Anne Budge this season for some reason keeping faith in a manager/director of football
and that
'..while the CFC board have handled the last few weeks really well they have dirty hands as well ref resolution 12 etc '
I'm not sure what he meant by
'.. I think it is correct for the fans to ask questions but please ask the boards of the clubs who are threatning legal action etc first.'
It would be helpful if he would expand on what he meant by that?
paddy malarkey 17th May 2020 at 00:04
'… my daughter told me , and she saw it on either Rangers Media or Follow Follow . I trust my sources !'
""""""""""""""""""
And in no way, pm, will I, daughterless as I am, challenge any man's daughter.
But it is legitimate to quote secondary /tertiary sources, just as you have now done.
And well done to your daughter in her interest in keeping her dad up to the minute in matters football!
Paddy Malarkey.
Your sources are correct and the statement will be released at given time.
It is a lengthy document that outlines the feelings if the Board and also their next steps.
A leaked summary is as follows.
Since the disgraceful and democratic and legal demolition of our dignafied (sic) resolution by a large majority, our board has met to consider our dignafied response. It runs to 632 dignafied and indignant pages.
The board will deliver the statement to the SPFL tomorrow; by brick.
In essence.
"We will scream and scream until we make ourselves sick".
No change there.
So the big Rangers announcement was a kit deal everyone already knew about with an unheard of Company. According to Rangers, this unheard of Company 'deliberately chose Rangers as the world's most successful club'.
As a Celtic shareholder I will today be writing to the PLC Board to ask why our club is stuck with the massively inferior Adidas brand as our new supplier.
Well at least they do now have a kit deal so congratulations. Not sure how it would look seeing the World's most successful club* running out at the Bernabeu in their vest and pants .
Rangers seal huge Castore kit deal as details of new partnership confirmed
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-announce-huge-castore-kit-22040424
How do they know it's a huge deal.
From the details supplied by Castore
"In a clean break from how things have been done in the past, Rangers Football Club will benefit directly from every product we sell. The more we sell, the more money flows straight back into the club."
That reads to me like the income will be based on a percentage of sales, rather than a fixed sum with bonuses for exceeding target sales. I'm not sure how that can be described as "huge" before it even. It may well be, who knows, that's the point.
The article did note that there was no image of the new kit.
Like all things Ibrox it is huge, until it ends in tears.
Why put out an announcement on Sunday morning, most of which was known, and not even have an image of the product.
Did Sports Direct pass on their opportunity to match the deal or will they hold fire and then demolish it in court.
On the bright side, it will be ready for the 150th anniversary, in 2162.
Re Castore deal:-
“The more we sell, the more money flows (!) into the club”. Aye right!
What dae ye think o’ that Mike?
Off the radar sales to fund war chest screams DR?
Hi JC 16th May 00.21
Sorry if my post was unclear it looked fine to me when writing it and even as I checked it, maybe I should have had my Lagavulin after I wrote it?.
What I was trying to say was, the fans should be asking questions about Scottish football governance but if they think back to at least 2012, then they should realise that their respective clubs boards have failed them. While the boards always talked the talk about changes they ultimately always backed down if they had followed up their talk then things today covid 19 apart Scottish football could and should have been in a better place.
In regards to the CFC board I think they have handled things well in the recent weeks but that is not to say their hands are spotlessly clean in regards to the now infamous 5 way agreement and of course thanks to Auldheid and others we know about the delaying tactics with resolution 12 answers to these to problems need to be given not only to CFC fans but to all fans.
About Hearts being a manager at a big club is difficult but to be the DoF aswell seems a strange choice especially when a blind man and his dog could see he was struggling as the manager so it made it difficult to sack him because would you have to sack him as th DoF aswell. In regards to the threat of legal action it was Homonculus I think who showed the rule about the SPFLboard having the right to call the league so how can anyone state it would be unfair to relegate a team who is bottom when the league is called, I think it is maybe a bit of a smokescreen to cover for her mistake in keeping levein as the manager when struggling if that is wrong then I apologise but that is what it seemed like to me.
Hope this is clearer this time no Lagavulin was involved this time
Den 17th May 2020 at 08:14
The board will deliver the statement to the SPFL tomorrow; by brick.
In essence.
"We will scream and scream until we make ourselves sick".
============================================
Den, was that quote from Just William of Orange?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
I wonder if Dodgy Dave knows who Castore's new investors are?.
So Morelos is staying at Ibrox for now then.
And could CFC be named SPL Champions tomorrow?
Otherwise, why all the good news, TRFC stories today across the SMSM?
The 'huge' kit deal – but with negligible detail shared.
TRFC being 'linked' with 2 new transfer targets!
A £250K refurbishment of the Megastore.
And the best one: when Minty 'missed out' on signing that great player back in the day: Gianlucca Vialli!
It's all going great down Govan way…
Sorry about the politics (and lack of competence to import the image !)
So Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland are to satay at home ?
Sounds more like the World Cup finals .
https://twitter.com/partickthistle/status/1262016220330627074?s=21
The above tweet is in relation to the back page of the Sunday Mail. I know times are tough in the newspaper industry but what the Mail have done today is unbelievable.
Ex Ludo 17th May 2020 at 15:23
I think they have just committed suicide . No apology will remove the stain .
Ex Ludo 15:23 totally out of order , they should be hammered for that but they wont be. Gutter Press does'nt come close to describing that . Thank god I stopped buying that "newspaper " years ago .
Perhaps, the Sunday Mail is copying TRFC tactics ?
Create a commotion out of nothing to gain attention, to still feel relevant – and maybe even generate a much needed, financial boost?
A last throw of the dice before this pitiful rag disappears?
Hopefully.
Yes StevieBC so many similarities when comparing the 2 of them, they deserve each other
Kentes 17th May 2020 at 12:12
‘..JC 16th May 00.21………………………..
..Sorry if my post was unclear ..’
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Thank you, Kentes, and apologies.
I was reading it through the bottom of my wee glass of cheap hooch!
My fault entirely for not grasping the point.
Hi John Clark 17th May 19.32.
Not a problem it is a reason that I don't post so often as I find it easier to say what I think rather than writing it down. When I look at some of the posts I think geez I feel as though I couldn't hold a candle to some of you guys with most things being written so concisely.
Anyway glad I wrote it out again I was just getting a bit frustrated seeing a fair few posts popping up complaining about governance etc and again some I felt were trying to make it into the usual 2 cheeks of the a**e drivel.
Right hopefully that's cleared it up now I can enjoy my wee malt
Cheers
With them not being in the 'football' loop, do you think Castore might be completely unaware of the possible issue regarding Sports Direct? I can hardly imagine so, but equally can't imagine SD having walked away from their court-approved matching arrangement. We all know how easily a desperate TRFC can be for cash/good news to announce that I CAN imagine them forgetting to mention it if Castore were unaware.
I take it SD has made no comment either way?
Almost absolutely and entirely OT on this quiet night, let me say that I am by no means a man of business, as I think I've mentioned before.
But I do have an enquiring mind, always ready to learn by questioning.
Recently, as I also mentioned before, I was researching 'Castore' in relation to TRFC, and learned that it is a two -man outfit which just has a clothing 'brand' , and does not actually itself manufacture clothing.
I concluded (I can be quite sharp, at times!) that Castore must therefore get a manufacturer to produce the clothing that will carry the 'Castore' brand name.
Tonight, it being very quiet, I had some interesting and educational fun looking into that world- the world of the production of clothing.
On the fringes of my mind was the possibility that an Asian business newspaper may have carried a story about a company in the UK that had won the contract to produce 500 000 000 football tops etc for the self-styed 'most successful club in the world'
But of course there is no way that I am equipped ever to find out whether an Asian manufacturing company/companies (where a huge percentage of the world's clothing is manufactured) or a European company, may be in contract with Castore to produce the Castore brand of football clothing for TRFC.
However, I enjoyed learning , as an intellectual exercise without any reference to the 'saga' , that there is an organisation called Clothing Manufacturers Asia (CMA Ethical Manufacturing, so probably wouldn't ever deal with unethical clients)
If, like me, you are beginning to feel some slight effects of the 'lockdown', you might enjoy a visit to
https://www.clothingmanufacturersasia.com/about-us/
and read through its interesting and informative pages.
Its FAQ page must be one of the best of its type that I've seen.
Their PR people know what they're about.
I should maybe say that my reference to it being a 'quiet night' (my post of 23.46 last evening) does not signify that I am indifferent to the scabrous, venomous choice of images that appeared in a dirty rag of a newspaper ,that were aimed at and would appeal to feeble minds easily stirred to violence.
There are some very, very bad folk in the newspaper world, whose children will be ashamed of what they did for a living.
May the Sunday Mail die the death of Liquidation.
The manufacturers appear to be in Portugal John. They must be a super efficient outfit, having gone from replying to Sevco's advert just three months ago, to having their name leaked in connection only last month. (I think Spee & Dee Gonzales handled the negotiations and legal matters, and Roe Drunner will be the preferred courier service.
).
https://www.drapersonline.com/people/the-drapers-interview/castore-the-brand-chasing-sporting-glory/7033416.article
There are of course two similar sounding companies listed. "Castore Ltd", and "Castore Limited". One was a mail order company, now dissolved, and the other a newly incorporated……errrr mail order company….(unless somebody is giving them a wee lend of a pop-up superstore or something).
I expect the pre-order, money up front, details will be released as soon as somebody draws a wee picture of a jersey.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09967258 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/12540295
Looks to me like the two brothers are going to be performing FRONT of house duties. Wyle e Coyote will be much too busy for interviews and the like.
.
John Clark 18th May 2020 at 01:02
May the Sunday Mail die the death of Liquidation.
=================
While I agree the photo yesterday was over the top, the same paper years ago had a hearse and undertaker photographed outside Celtic Park, with the headline RIP Celtic. The media thought that was fine and other fans thought it was a hoot. That completely ignored the fact that a Scottish owned bank was trying its hardest to put Celtic out of business, while affording an almost limitless overdraft to Rangers. There has been much talk recently of investigations. The Bank of Scotland's involvement with Rangers when under Scottish ownership is due one of its own in my view.
So, Castore isn’t a cultured Italian sweeper seeing out the golden years of his career in Glasgow then? I obviously haven’t been paying attention.
Seriously though the kit deal of the century has all the hallmarks of a Kirstie Allsop make do and mend operation fronted by two young guys from the Barra’s. I’m no PR guru but appearing in a publicity photograph wearing Adidas training shoes is a bit of a faux pas.
It's worth remembering that the company run by the Beahon brothers is not called 'Castore', but the J. Carter Sporting Company Ltd, company number 09670915 : 'Castore' is the brand name, and the Beahon boys have , presumably , made a deal with a manufacturer to produce the gear on their design.
It was when I saw that the J Carter Sporting Company had only 2 employees (i.e, the two brothers) that I went exploring how that all works, and that led me on the visit to the CMA .
I looked at Asia rather than Europe because it's in Asian countries that the cheap, sweated, labour force is found.
Not that I would suggest for a minute that the Liverpudlians would enter into contract with manufacturers who exploited their labour forces.
It should be easy enough to identify which manufacturer in Portugal won the contract? I think it may be that there is a middle-man there on an agency basis, who in turn will be linked via CMA ( which embraces lots of bigger manufacturers).
A pleasant hour or two of 'lockdown boredom' time-passing beckons.
Here's to it!
John Clark 18th May 2020 at 11:07
It's worth remembering that the company run by the Beahon brothers is not called 'Castore', but the J. Carter Sporting Company Ltd, company number 09670915 : 'Castore' is the brand name, and the Beahon boys have , presumably , made a deal with a manufacturer to produce the gear on their design.
===============================
You might be interested in this JC.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYNdk7VWsAAocnN?format=jpg&name=360×360 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYNdkkrWkAAgWpi?format=jpg&name=360×360
Remember when they done the switcheroo?…..Would this be as funny, or funnier?
https://twitter.com/Heavidor/status/1262318611928145921
Today's herald sport section. Mark Hendry going big on the £25m multi year deal. Quote from Tom Beahon.
"The largest shareholders in Castore, other than myself and Phil, are one of Britain's wealthiest families. Despite what I have read a couple of weeks ago, it's not Mike Ashley! They are very private guys, multi-billionaires who have really given us their backing".
Those are a couple of interesting links, CO. What can they mean? I like David Low’s tweet from within the 11.58 one – “Well, if there’s no kit deal, there’s nothing for His Mikeness to match? That would mean Castore is just a flag of convenience, wouldn’t it?”. When Castore was first announced (and so being investigated), I think I remember reading on here and on TRFC sites that Castore had taken a big loan at the start of the year with the implication taken that this was to finance their expanse into the football mass-market world, starting with TRFC. That soothed many a worried head on TRFC sites as it seemed to explain how this small company could possibly support the HUUUUGE fanbase of “the Rangers”. What if those funds (£7.5m from memory) weren’t a loan but a takeover, hence the ‘Cessation of interest’ documents you posted at 11.40? It couldn’t seriously be Big Mike, could it, but that could explain my query from last night as to why he appears to have walked away. Is that just naughty wishful thinking on my part? Bordersdon’s post seems to be Castore still saying “It’s kosher, guys, honest”.
I think there are a couple of possibilities Nawlite. My guess is that the Sevco Superstore has replaced the pop-up shops, (a dry-run?), and Castore have just put El-mich-Eal Ashlee, an Istanbul market-trader, out of business.
Or dodgy Dave has done a £20 for me, £2 for you, deal via David Jason (Delboy, believe it or not) McLaughlin, of Castore Limited, using Castore Ltd branding….Links on my post of 02:27 last night.
League called. Possibility of a lifeboat for Hearts via temporary reconstruction 'expanding the top flight'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646282
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Corrupt official 18th May 2020 at 11:58
Remember when they done the switcheroo?…..Would this be as funny, or funnier? https://twitter.com/Heavidor/status/1262318611928145921
==============
Absolutely!
I'll stick with my original guess: TRFC will play in unbranded kit next season, if at all!
It is shocking – even for the Ibrox omnishambles – that such a high profile contract which the supporters would take particular interest in – has supposedly been handed to a tiny business without the required experience, sales channels, partnering network, etc…
I wouldn't guess that Big Mike has any involvement though.
However, it's such a weird / amateurish set-up that I could readily believe that someone at Ibrox, (or SA?), is trying to pull a fast one to skim off a personal cut?
David Low is busy today.
https://twitter.com/Heavidor/status/1262356000625102849
StevieBC 18th May 2020 at 13:29
'..It is shocking – even for the Ibrox omnishambles – that such a high profile contract which the supporters would take particular interest in – has supposedly been handed to a tiny business without the required experience, sales channels, partnering network, etc…'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
If you have a look at the link I gave earlier, Stevie, and read through,
https://www.clothingmanufacturersasia.com/about-us/
you'll see what seems to be a normal practice followed by designers of clothing : they will patent their design, and send it off to manufacturing companies (perhaps using CMA) which have the mills, and the fabrics, and the labour forces and machinery, using the manufacturer's specifications sheet showing exactly what they want -the fabric, the colours, the logos, lettering , the sizes range.
The manufacturers will take it from there.
Even I could fill in the specification sheets, I suppose, if I was a dress-designer familiar with the trade language, and knew a seam from a gushet.
I've no personal animus against the Beahon brothers and their shareholders (except that they are prepared to deal with a business that I myself wouldn't touch with a barge pole, and buy into the untruthful crap that emanates from Ibrox.
What would be of interest is how much per shirt, shorts, stockings , jackets on which the brand name 'Castore' is stitched does the J Carter Sporting Club get from the selling price.
I read that they have a hoodie or a jacket that is silver coloured by day, absorbs the light of the sun, and turn green at night which will sell for £600.
They'd need to watch that their brand name doesn't lose value by being on a common or garden fitba'tap available to much lesser figures than Andy Murray.
‘John Clark 18th May 2020 at 15:07
…They’d need to watch that their brand name doesn’t lose value by being on a common or garden fitba’tap available to much lesser figures than Andy Murray.’
#######################################
The auld cynic in me thinks that they’ve discovered the market for ‘mid-level’ clothing is very tough to break into, even with/despite a non-playing Andy Murray’s support. If last year’s figure of £750k turnover is accurate, that’s not a lot of sales at their quoted prices.
I suspect that their fitba’ related gear will be treated as a cheaper, ‘diffusion’ or ‘bridge’ line (more fashion lingo for you to assimilate, John!), with prices perhaps less than half of their current ‘signature’ (ooops, mair lingo!) offerings. We’ll see in the coming weeks.
Let us hope the SPFL clubs agree to reconstruction, even if only for a season or two. It is the right thing to do and suits the majority of the member clubs. Well causes detriment to the lowest number is probably more accurate.
Celtic now offering refunds for the cancelled games now that the league has been called. If you do not request a refund your money remains in the club. Personally I won’t ask for a refund but not everyone can afford to do that.
I imagine any season ticket holder from any club will have a statutory right to a refund should they wish.
Homunculus 18th May 2020 at 18:16
I think I may have inadvertently started an SFM Poll on the reconstruction issue.
Should I thumb up myself, it just seems wrong.
upthehoops 18th May 2020 at 18:51
I would imagine that would depend on the individual T&Cs people agree to when they got their ticket. However I suppose some could do it as a gesture. I just don't see clubs being able to afford that just now.
From a SFM point of view I will be glad when all of this stuff from the past month is no longer a hot topic. I want the Jambos back for instance.
I can understand that the blog has appeared more Celtic centric recently. Because of the connections between;
Hampden – Rangers/sevco – governance – 2011 onwards – corruption – mistrust – club's self interest – priorities – etc etc.
But mixed up in all that was relegation. Personally I feel for PT more than any other. Sorry Jambos! The least worst option for me would have been the temp. solution. 14 team premiership. But the whole set up needs a longer look and permanent. With FORESIGHT.
And we had the weird feelings with a lot of Celtic supporters, like me, who had as much love for Neil Doncaster in his roles at Hampden as we did for Regan et. al., but almost supporting him because the club from Ibrox were the ones who had the bare faced cheek to be leaders in the demand for better governance. Anne Budge got caught up in this for her own reasons. But does not come out of this smelling of roses. She should have distanced herself and Hearts much, much more forcefully from the dubious reasons and ambitions of TRFC. Whatever they were. (chuckle). She should have stuck to her guns on relegation. To blindly support TRFC, by her own admission, was foolish. Would have been better if she came up with her own resolution.
I know I'll not be speaking for other Thistle supporters in saying that , although we weren't the worst team in the division , we'd played ourselves into the position we were in when the season was ended . We actually looked like we were turning the corner , and if we'd turned the draws into wins , especially at home , we would have been safe . It's not nice to be relegated (again!) but it gives you hope that we might win a game or two when football resumes (thought that this year too !) . Apart from the financial setback , I don't see where Ann Budge is coming from – Hearts were by far the worst side I've seen in the past couple of years , including us , and she should accept that it was her loyalty to an incompetent manager that put paid to their season – we had one in Caldwell . Look to the future !
Homunculus18th May 2020 at 19:04
========
I never really considered the terms and conditions question. It's a fair point.
TBH I think most fans if they can afford to will not ask for a refund. It's what fans do when their club needs help, and the season tickets will have been paid for some time ago.
John Clark 18th May 2020 at 11:07
I looked at Asia rather than Europe because it’s in Asian countries that the cheap, sweated, labour force is found.
……………
Looking for some help here with the memory.
I seem to remember David murray i think switched the manufacture of the ibrox replica kit to a far off distant land, but never told the fans as they were still paying top dollar for a kit made for a small outlay. Problems arouse when the replica kit after one was started to bobble (looked as if it had been worn and washed a hundred times) the material looked the same as the official kit but the material was of a lesser quality and could not stand up to the wash.
If i remember hand wash only was the remedy but most wanted a cash refund or a better quality shirt for the price they paid.
Any help with this memory, or is the mind playing tricks?
Homunculus 18th May 2020 at 19:04
upthehoops 18th May 2020 at 18:51
…………..
Celtic and the ibrox club’s terms and conditions.
https://twitter.com/JBLuvsCeltic/status/1262453415898001408/photo/1
Celtic. If the club is umable to complete a match fixture to provide a result for the purpouse of the football authorities due to causes beyond the control of the club,and the match fixture is not re-scheduled, the holder will be compensated for any corresponding reduction in services.
…..
The ibrox club. The club cannot eccept any liability for any expense incurred even in the event that the match is cancelled.
To keep with the Fleetwood Mac theme of the blog title – I am someone who has been running in the shadows for many years.
I can't help feeling that clubs are getting their knickers in a twist over who are in which leagues next season for no reason. We will not know for a few months what teams will be playing in Scottish Football next season. For now all teams should be listed in one table top to bottom as the concluded leagues state. Planning should be undertaken by the leagues on the basics like the hows and whys football can be played here, the safety of players, officials and fans. Most importantly, the clubs should be considering whether putting additional stress on our front line services by playing is morally and socially justified. The composition of the leagues can wait.
We are being driven towards finalised league structures not by the sport but by the businesses. The teams that are being relegated are complaining of the loss in revenue brought about by playing in a lower league but at the same time are accepting the money from the broadcasting deals. It is the finalisation of these deals that would appear to be the driving force behind the league structures being known now. Is that what we want for our sport?
Our fight against COVID19 is with us for the long run and all the talk of starting the new season should not be driven by financial necessity. Football is no different from any other business in the country and those involved in it deserve no preferential treatment. So when chairmen or players bleat about the possible loss of income our view in return should be to balance their concerns against the same threat to tradesmen, factory workers our council employees. In fact, the bigger earners in our sport should be treated with a lesser concern as, if they were unable to build a rainy day fund, their profligacy is what has put them in the position the find themselves.
Cluster One 18th May 2020 at 23:18
omunculus 18th May 2020 at 19:04
upthehoops 18th May 2020 at 18:51
…………..
Celtic and the ibrox club’s terms and conditions.
https://twitter.com/JBLuvsCeltic/status/1262453415898001408/photo/1
Celtic. If the club is umable to complete a match fixture to provide a result for the purpouse of the football authorities due to causes beyond the control of the club,and the match fixture is not re-scheduled, the holder will be compensated for any corresponding reduction in services.
…..
The ibrox club. The club cannot eccept any liability for any expense incurred even in the event that the match is cancelled.
=========================================
C1, I saw and commented on the Rangers* clause some time back. I’m not a lawyer but it didn’t seem to me to be a clear cut statement that there would be no refund if matches were cancelled. What it did say was that they accepted no responsibility for any “expense incurred even in the event that the match was cancelled’.
Does that imply that they DO have responsibility for a partial refund of the season ticket? If not, why not also make that crystal clear in the same clause?
Rangers* only appear to exclude a responsibility to cover an expense incurred. There was no definition of ‘expense’ or ‘expense incurred’ in the passage I saw. Does ‘expense incurred’ include the cost of the ticket? Is the “expense incurred” the costs resultant on the changed match timing or cancellation? Arguable I suspect – any legal precedent?
The Celtic* clause covering this seems fairly clear to me. “If the Club is unable to complete a match fixture to provide a result for the purposes of the football authorities due to causes beyond the control of the Club, and that match fixture is not re-scheduled, the Holder will be compensated for any corresponding reduction in services.”
For reasons beyond Celtic’s control the matches cannot be completed and are not being re-scheduled = a refund.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Celtic* – joshing, folks… 🙂
redlichtie
Maybe it's ticketus the fans should be claiming, just a thought
I believe the basic rule with any contract is that if there is an area of dubiety then it should be read to favour the party which did not draw up the agreement.
That could however just be something I got into my head, I have no way of substantiating it whatsoever.
It might be called contra proferentem.
Homunculus 19th May 2020 at 10:38
I believe the basic rule with any contract is that if there is an area of dubiety then it should be read to favour the party which did not draw up the agreement.
That could however just be something I got into my head, I have no way of substantiating it whatsoever.
It might be called contra proferentem.
==================================
I’m with you on this Homunculus.
The Competition and Markets Authority might have something to say about that clause too. https://www.coronavirus-business-complaint.service.gov.uk/ (“Report a business behaving unfairly during the Coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak”)
Rangers* will have insurance to cover it anyway. Won’t they?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Cluster One 18th May 2020 at 23:02
'..Looking for some help here with the memory………I seem to remember David murray i think switched the manufacture of the ibrox..'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Sadly, Cluster One, I can't recall : but it sounds like the kind of flanker a loyal knight of the Realm who used a dodgy tax scheme would pull!
Further to my post @ 9:25
The fans of the teams that are "disadvantaged" by the final league placings should consider why they are objecting. Their teams are disadvantaged at a business level to a degree that changes could be called for to compensate that but at the football level I do not believe there is a fairer alternative. The rules are clear that the leagues can be called and I do not believe that there can be any more straight forward reason to call them than the risk to the health of a large amount of people. Accept that and how the positions have been decided is far and away the least unfair. This has not been done by "freezing" the place that all teams are at the time the league is ended. It is working the positions from the average performance of the teams over a seven month period. To argue "Aye but we could have …." is delve into the unknown. Those that argue this way would be happy, in the main, to have the leagues finished at a later date and not called now. That would have definite "known" disadvantages for some teams who may have to field weaker teams because player contracts running down. There is no method that would be completely painless.
Of course we are hearing calls for changes to the leagues but this too will adversely affect some clubs. The call by teams like Hearts to make the changes, but only if it is guaranteed to be temporary, are forcing clubs to adjust their financial model to play in a higher league only to be forced to return to the lower league when we have a 3 or 4 team relegation in a couple of seasons.
Many teams will be disadvantaged by the calling of the leagues (my own, Hibs, will lose c.£100K) but what we have at present is far and away the fairest to my mind.
Mickey Edwards
Thank you for putting into words what I've struggled to do! Agreed that relegation might not be fair but any temporary change, which Ann Budge was promoting, will inevitably lead to more unfairness in the future.
Take the words of Stephen Pressley, in the Daily Record online, where he has criticised the SPFL for their decision to relegate Hearts and promotes the idea of 14 team leagues as being the fairest way forward. He then goes on to suggest it'll be just one of those things that 3 or 4 clubs may have to be relegated in a season or two! Not a surprise that he also accuses others of self interest!
Adam812 @ 14:36
In a business context self interest is not only acceptable but should be encouraged as it is what is expected of directors of any company. Where it becomes unacceptable is when a handful of companies hold power over the majority by having a de facto monopoly written into the conditions of a trade organisation that itself can prevent non-members from operating the same business in the country.
It gets worse when that business is responsible for running a sport. The two are incompatible.
The sport is not considered when chairmen argue over loss of income. This is most glaring when a business signs contracts that guarantee conditions that the sport cannot provide with the certainty that contract law requires. Four Celtic/TRFC league matches in one season spring to mind.
In the case of Hearts, Ann Budge is looking for the sport's rules to be altered to compensate for the dent in the company's balance book that this season's mismanagement has created. It goes further back than one season with uncontrolled personnel spending and a new stand that is c.£10M over-budget. Perhaps she should look not to the sporting administrators for monetary recompense but to the business associates and contractors that allowed a building project to run so far out of control. The fact that the control of this project was awarded to one of her own family might be an appropriate starting place.
But we are talking business again and the sporting aspect is being ignored.
https://twitter.com/oldfirmfacts1/status/1262751175071289349?s=21
Lord Foulkes just a wee bit behind the curve.
Neeext!!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52728938
See Phil's posted it on his, too. Auldheid?
The Scottish FA has dropped charges against Rangers over alleged irregularities in paperwork which allowed them to compete in the 2011/12 Champions League.
It had been considering legal action in the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland, but has now effectively killed off any prospect of disciplinary action over the long-running issue.
The saga began when “contradictions” were found between information in Rangers’ application for a licence to play in UEFA’s premier club tournament and testimony given during the fraud trial of former owner Craig Whyte.
Rangers claimed in the application they had no tax debts – which must be declared to qualify for a licence – but former directors said in court that the club knew they had an overdue bill.
ADVERT
The Scottish FA brought charges against the club, but due to the ‘five-way agreement’, which allowed Rangers to play in the Scottish Football League after liquidation in 2012, any dispute between the parties has to be heard by the specialist sports court.
An SFA-convened independent panel upheld that jurisdiction agreement 18 months ago, with the governing body sent away to consider its next steps.
After a lengthy internal review and receiving legal advice, the Hampden board has now decided to drop the charges rather than fight a lengthy and expensive legal battle.
The club were originally charged under the 2011/12 rulebook, which only allowed for a standard fine of £5,000 for breaking the rules, or a top end fine of £10,000 in extreme circumstances.
ADVERT
The Scottish FA hierarchy felt the costs of pursuing the case in Lausanne, which could run to six figures, were prohibitive to a charge that would merit only a maximum £10,000 fine. The board were also advised that the prospects of victory at CAS were not high.
A brief statement on the Scottish FA website read: “A Judicial Panel convened to consider a Notice of Complaint raised against Rangers FC in 2018 – in relation to alleged new evidence regarding representations received prior to the awarding of a European licence for season 2011/12 – determined at a preliminary hearing that it did not have jurisdiction to determine the matter.
“Instead, it concluded that jurisdiction lay with the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
“Following consideration of the implications of such a referral, including legal opinion, it was the board’s unanimous position that this matter should not be referred to CAS.
“The Scottish FA now considers the matter to be closed.”
……………..
The cost is too nuch and are afraid of the implications, is that what they are saying?
Cluster One @ 16:13
Oh well, at least big Peter vill be happy..
And all perfectly timed , while Celtic fans are celebrating their title win and Rangers fans crying in their beer. , says it all really about the SFA . Im sure Celtic knew about this and hoped that there wouldnt be too much of a stink as their as their fans would be distracted by title celebrations . .Come to think of it , How the hell have Rangers been allowed to play in Europe next season ( if they are still with us ) . No way do they meet UEFA ffp
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52728938
Quelle Surprise!!!!
The SFA know they are every bit as guilty as RFC in this matter and have never wanted it investigated.
Crowd fund the Res12 guys to take it to court
"The Scottish FA brought charges against the club, but due to the ‘five-way agreement’, which allowed Rangers to play in the Scottish Football League after liquidation in 2012, any dispute between the parties has to be heard by the specialist sports court."
Confirmation the SFA has no jurisdiction over 2angers.
normanbatesmumfc 16.51
crowd fund Res 12 guys to take it to court……..I think that be a popular proposal
I wonder if Auldheid and the gang would be up for that
Well, there we have it then! "..“Following consideration of the implications of such a referral,"
Gutless wonders , feart that some people might have to face criminal charges. Proof positive that our Football Governance is based on fear, greed, falsehood and moral turpitude.
Bad cess to the wicked , wicked unprincipled swine. May their personal rewards/fortunes from the business of football die with their football clubs!
What absolute mugs we would be to think of contributing even one penny to line the pockets of such as those.
Mickey Edwards 19th May 2020 at 15:10
“Ann Budge is looking for the sport’s rules to be altered to compensate for the dent in the company’s balance book that this season’s mismanagement has created.”
No, she’s looking for the opportunity to address the unfairness of being punished for the entirely random acts and timing of an unprecedented global pandemic, a situation other clubs agree nobody should suffer as a result of, yet bizarrely vote in financial self-interest against the only action which would avoid such unfairness.
Yes, Budge and Hearts have been abysmal in most of the thirty league games played, but not one single person can say with guaranteed certainty that they weren’t going to haul back a four point defecit within the 24 points available to play for.
St Johnstone spent many weeks firmly rooted to the foot of the table before a six game golden spell saw them leap up the table to the safety of sixth place. Ross County couldn’t buy a win before the season was ended early.
Rangers* looked like leapfrogging over Celtic at the top of the table at the tail end of December, yet Celtic pulled 13 points clear a handful of games later, further demonstrating that nobody can accurately predict what would happen in the final eight or nine matches.
Do Partick Thistle deserve to be relegated despite being only two points behind with a game in hand on Queen of the South, or did their off-field business not contribute to their perilous league position in the same way as Hearts?
If the SPFL genuinely wanted to look after all its 42 members, rather than just 39 of them, I’m sure it could have found a way of tying such a proposal into the release of prize money, just as it did a few short weeks ago amid such acrimony.
I know it must be difficult for the Celtic-minded majority on here to put themselves in Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer’ position, but I can assure you there isn’t one club or support who would sit back and do nothing in the face of the expulsion forced on those three clubs in such unprecedented circumstances.
Highlander 19th May 2020 at 18:04
'…to address the unfairness of being punished for the entirely random acts and timing of an unprecedented global pandemic'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
…whereas our wretched Governance people are rolling over , happy to let RFC of 1872 (RFC 2012) and people associated with the Res 12 issue escape any scrutiny, in spite of that club and at least some of its officers being definitely guilty of sports cheating and possibly guilty of much worse.
Hearts indeed are innocent of any charge of cheating and are deserving of better consideration.
RFC of 1872on the other hand and its then officers were guilty of sports cheating on a grand scale yet will escape any kind of forensic investigation into their murky actions a decade ago.
It's pitiful that we are so incapable of finding honest brokers in our Sports governance.
The SFA continues to take the p!ss out of the paying punters.
Can us fans not agitate to ditch both the SFA and the SPFL from the Scottish game?
It might not be our ball but it’s definitely our game – and these 2 bodies continue to fail US spectacularly season after season, and nothing seems to change or improve.
Highlander 19th May 2020 at 18:04
Thistle ST holder here , Highlander , who reckons that we might be taking one for the team , but also reckons that it's time to accept that this league season has ended . The unplayed matches have been decided on a points-per-game basis , and the tables finalised . By all means look at reconstruction , but let it be for the right reason , and not to save poorly performing clubs from being relegated . Are we to go through reconstruction every time a "big" club underperforms and finds itself relegated ? My sympathy, if any , lies with the clubs denied a chance of promotion . We should accept that we are where we are , and be working , as a single ,disciplined unit , on plans to take us where we want to be . Unfortunately , all I see are vested interests and selfishness .
RES12 wasn't about Sevco, or Rangers(I.L.), but their co-accused, The SFA.
The fact that the SFA bottled out of charging their co-accused, has no bearing on the allegations the SFA faced. The SFA may well consider the matter closed, but that is not their domain to decide. The RES12 bhoys will be the ones who decide if the matter is closed. I hope they pursue the matter further. Fraud is fraud.
Imagine the scene.
PC Plod….."Did you smash that windae?"
Wee ned….."Aye, but the matter is closed!"
PC Plod…."Fair enough, On yir way then".
Time for an SFM petition open to any other stakeholders to join?
"Scottish football supporters have no confidence in the SFA and SPFL."
Scottish Football needs to register dissatisfaction with the football authorities at this critical time.
Highlander,
The season is what it is because of an unprecedented world event. In any sport you can only work with the known knowns to settle the outcomes. In a sporting context there can only be an end to the uncertainty by framing the result within the rules at the time of the cessation. The rules do not have anything about extending the leagues to prevent "unfairness". To blame self interest as the reason for Hearts possible relegation is turning a blind eye to Budge's assertion that she would chair the restructuring group only if they stuck to her demands- the change MUST be temporary. What were you saying about self interest?
As a olive branch may I offer what I said in my first post. I believe that Hearts will be in the top division when hostilities resume. For just one top tier club to go to the wall will mean every other club will move up one place in the structure and every team that fears they are about to be relegated will still be in their current league.
Of course, if today's events are anything to go by a spanner may head into the works if it is TRFC that hits the buffer. I expect everything possible to be done to ensure a team is playing out of Ibrox next season. I suggest that that is the time to sharpen up your pitchfork.
I think efforts should be made to force the publication of the five-way-agreement , as it seems to supersede all football rules and regs in Scotland . I would suggest that TRFC and CFC fans are united in wishing to see this aberration in the public domain as they see it as being detrimental to their club's wellbeing . and the rest of us see it as being detrimental to the game up here as a whole . If I recall correctly (quiet at the back!) , we were told that it was BDO who had objected , and don't know if anything can be done , if that is the case .
I wouldn't like to guess what Auldheid's reaction to this news will be. He has, I think, not ruled out going to court in the past. His group do not have direct access to the CAS, so without the co-operation of eg Celtic then the Court of Session it would have to be. I think!
If crowd funding is required count me in! Likewise a petition.
A court case might just be the tool or spark to see significant reconstruction on football governance in Scotland.
The Scottish FA brought charges against the club, but due to the ‘five-way agreement’, which allowed Rangers to play in the Scottish Football League after liquidation in 2012, any dispute between the parties has to be heard by the specialist sports court.
……………..
The question now is if any other charges for anything are brought against an ibrox club, will the 5 way agreement come into play?
A lot of journalists these last few months have been crying out for transparency, i wonder if we will hear their voices in the coming days?
The club were originally charged under the 2011/12 rulebook, which only allowed for a standard fine of £5,000 for breaking the rules, or a top end fine of £10,000 in extreme circumstances.
the Hampden board has now decided to drop the charges rather than fight a lengthy and expensive legal battle.
The club were originally charged under the 2011/12 rulebook,
………….
There are charges to be brought but the SFA don’t want to pursue them ias they believe it will cost too much and also shine a light on the SFA.
Cluster One 19th May 2020 at 21:23 Edit
If that is you or any other SFM contributor jousting with JasBoyd on Twitter I would save my fingers.
He is evidence resistant in that anything that challenges his narrative becomes an never ending semantics tennis match.
He might have a point somewhere in there if there was no question that what the SFA were given on 30th March 2011 as proof that no payable existed at 31st March, was a letter stating that a payable did not exist at 31st Dec. A potential liability existed then but from 21st March a payable existed.
RFC tried to get the bank to agree to pay and HMRC were ready to wait a while if the bank agreed but when you approach the bank to pay you are not talking about a potential liability you are talking about a payable.
So the proof offered describing a payable as a potential liability on 30th March was a lie under UEFA terminology. In fact UEFA only use the term "payable" and not liability in their rules.
However apart from it not being about whether a payable existed (overdue or not) Jas states Auldheid shelled out £30k of shareholders money as if they were being led a dance.
1. The amount was a third of that so he is lying.
2. The main contributors (3) knew exactly what they were funding.
3. The one crowd funding attempt was in fact independently carried out by CQN by sale of T Shirts and the excess raised (over £800 from memory) was given to Marys Meals.
He also goes on about Celtic lawyers saying internally at Celtic there was no case to answer. Well that is news to the requisitioners A feature of this whole debacle has been Celtic's reluctance to make a statement one way or another in respect of did a case exist, particularly after being handed the evidence that a payable existed at 31st March and how that influenced the non application of the relevant rule, with suggestion Celtic approach UEFA privately to get an answer and if UEFA confirmed no case then the matter would be closed. Celtic never did. So again a pack of lies that Celtic knew no case to answer.
I refuse to engage with the guy for the above reason he is so desperate to be right he tells lies and if he is prepared to do that how dependable is the rest of what he writes?
He does his fellow Rangers supporters no favours by lying to them about Res12 attempts to do what his club have suddenly realised, Scottish football governance is corrupt and if he does not see that add hypocrisy to his mendacity.
Auldheid 19th May 2020 at 22:26
For jas i have a tolerance level. I like to see how the other half work. and i don’t have the heart to block (although i should and save my fingers)The dregs he drags along with him are stretching my tolerance level of him though.
Sometimes an old dog has to be put down though, even when it goes against what you want.
My previous leads nicely to where the SFA have put Celtic and the governance of Scottish football by their statement without an explanation for closing the matter.
Only an explanation that sets out whether the licence was processed within the rules in 2011 (and there is one about telling the truth) and that there was no breach of the Article governing overdue payables OR the other Article requiring Rangers to notify the SFA of any change in circumstances since they granted the licence on 19th April 2011, a change which happened on 20th May six days before UEFA were notified of Scottish clubs to whom licence had been granted on 26th May will bring closure. All else is avoidance.
Anything less is dereliction of duty by the SFA to carry out their responsibility to administer THEIR judicial protocol on which the credibility of Scottish football depends.
When supporters buy an ST for loyalty reasons what assurances can clubs give that the rules on which the game depends are being upheld without fear or favour?
What protocol allows Petrie an architect of the 5 Way Agreement to sit as Chairman on The SFA Board that have decided to stop investigating the basis of the decision by the Licensing Committee that Petrie chaired in 2011?
Celtic still are answerable to their shareholders at AGMs, which is where this will go next unless they make a statement either that no deception took place and support it or that it did, but in the long term interests of Scottish football they will not pursue the compensation that the evidence at https://www.res12.uk/ suggests they are entitled to seek.
Its still not over.
With the old rangers dead the spotlight would have shone on the SFA, It is no wonder they want it dropped.
jimbo 19th May 2020 at 20:24
‘.I wouldn’t like to guess what Auldheid’s reaction to this news will be.’
“”””””””””””””””
I suspect that it will be the same as that of any of us who simply cannot believe that the SFA can so contemptuously dismiss the prima facie evidence that falsehoods were told by the club that was seeking a UEFA competitions licence.
And that that falsehood may have been endorsed by the SFA licensing committee.
These are serious matters that an already very suspect ‘governance body’ cannot be allowed to sweep under the carpet!
God’s truth! What have we got here? Rotten bastards as rotten as some of those who cheated the taxman or those who created the monstrous Big Lie?
Men of straw, unprincipled as the tykes that killed RFC of 1872?
Yes, that’s what we have.
Would you give a penny now to any of the owners of/ major shareholders in any football club?
Hell mend ye!
[I now see that Auldheid has spoken: sorry about that, I hadn’t refreshed afore I posted!]
Auldheid 19th May 2020 at 22:52
'..Its still not over…'.
"""""""""""""""""
Absolutely.
I think that I would now want to test the integrity of the COPFS.
I, as a humble citizen, believe that a crime may have been committed.
Would I be safe in going to a polis station near me to report my concerns?
Would I feel safe?
Not in the least.
and I live in Edinburgh!
Where ,as it happens, the arch-cheat of football has 'managed' to get permission for a big 'development'!
https://twitter.com/ChrisSuttonCSC/status/1262786510715342855
Celtic have offered season ticket holders a refund on the unplayed matches. Some will accept the refund, and some not, and it is very hard to predict a percentage either way.
Of those who will refuse the refund, I wonder how many would be happy to write a wee letter saying that they are only refusing it on condition the monies are used to bring justice, to RES 12, and equally, those who will be accepting the refund, how many, would be happy to have a change of heart, subject to the same condition.
As I see it the maj shareholders had the power, but this would be a power not in their hands, but in the hands of fans.
“Of those who will refuse the refund, I wonder how many would be happy to write a wee letter saying that they are only refusing it on condition the monies are used to bring justice, to RES 12, and equally, those who will be accepting the refund, how many, would be happy to have a change of heart, subject to the same condition.
As I see it the maj shareholders had the power, but this would be a power not in their hands, but in the hands of fans.”
Corrupt Official, An admirable idea. It would give the Celtic PLC board a get out in terms of the Hampden suits – our hands were forced by a fan base. But this procedure would require the agreement in the first place by the Celtic board. I strongly suspect they would not be minded to go with this.
Did Fergus McCann worry too much about going to a civilian court? Stuff UEFA. They knew and know exactly everything that has gone on and sat back and did nothing! Did they even think about taking the SFA to CAS?
Celtic are not dependant on fan donations for legal fees. Without knowing any details I believe they have a law firm on retainers? Aside from that, Celtic, and especially it’s major shareholder, could easily afford the risk of a six figure legal bill.
They got the silver bullet, but they do not have the gumption to fire the gun I fear.
Does anyone? Just bring it up at the next AGM again. Play the long, long, long game.
The truth will come out in the end. Just like the Royal family whose dirty secrets are kept hidden until about 2 generations after the death of the perpetrator/s.
Auldheid 19th May 2020 at 22:26
I don't know what "jousting with JasBoyd on Twitter" has occurred but I know I won't be wasting my time finding out.
JasBoyd on Twitter is yet another iteration of Spoutpish; aka Niall Walker, The Lawman, Steerpike, Ernest Becker and others too numerous and tedious to recall but each claiming to be a reasonable chap.
jimbo 20th May 2020 at 07:41
Just bring it up at the next AGM again.
……………
I believe that may be the only time we get a response from celtic
And so the day after the SFA, shamefully, decide to ignore a significant issue in terms of football governance in this country, the cutting edge journalism and headline story from BBC Scotland is an article from Tom English recalling the 20 “daftest” moments over the last season in Scottish football – tells you all you need to know about the agenda and ethics of both the organisation and the journalist himself.
As per the whole basis for the existence of this blog, the media in this country seem determined to aid and abet the continual failure of the bodies that govern the game.
Cluster One @12.12
I’ve given up all hope of Celtic leading the charge in righting the wrongs. They appear to be too complicit.
That is why I ask the question ‘Does anyone?’
The obvious answer would be Auldheid et al. But do they/he wish to go down the legal route? What about money? I’m all for crowd funding them but could they raise enough? Who knows. (unless you try?) They most definitely have the best knowledge and data base and the experience of this issue since 2013.
Is there a rich individual or group of individual willing to fund this. With or without the assistance of the resolutioners.?
What is the alternative to going to court? I haven’t a clue! As I said, keep bringing it up at the AGMs? Trying to shame the board into action? Bring a blow torch!
One thing is for certain, the media will not argue the case.
I don’t trust the SFA.
I don’t trust the SPFL either.
This latest, SFA dereliction of duty – and the offhand manner in which it was announced – is probably no surprise at all to the informed Internet Bampots.
However, I am extremely disappointed in my own club’s silence on this Euro license fraud.
My own club is – by default – complicit in maintaining the status quo in Scottish football governance.
My own club is not interested in doing – or being seen to do – the right thing.
I always believed, (naively perhaps), that my club was better than that.
If a supporter can’t trust his own club, then where does that leave the future of Scottish football?
jimbo 20th May 2020 at 07:41
Corrupt Official, An admirable idea. It would give the Celtic PLC board a get out in terms of the Hampden suits – our hands were forced by a fan base. But this procedure would require the agreement in the first place by the Celtic board. I strongly suspect they would not be minded to go with this.
————————————————————————————–
I'll see your "Strongly suspect", and raise you a "Not a cat in hell chance" Jimbo. Everyone knows Celtic will do nothing until it becomes financial. What I am suggesting is not a boycott, but the response may lead to one. I'd suggest using the refunds as leverage stands more chance of provoking a favourable response, than an AGM at the end of the year, when the ST window is closed.
Pressure must be applied now while the fans have a bit of clout. Club finances are already strained and any pressure applied now will be magnified.
In effect, fans will not be damaging the club financially, as the club already has those monies in its possession. Fans will simply be asking the PLC, "Are you worthy of our goodwill?"….
I'll bet it is a goodwill hoped for and to an extent, expected.
How the PLC reacts to a withdrawal of that goodwill is their business……Literally !
A well run business would choose to keep the monies and ward off a boycott at the same time.
At a year end AGM they will be warding off nought but a few cat-calls.
I've just realised that Juventus will complete their very own 9IAR if they win the Serie A this season.
But they are only 1 point ahead of Lazio, whereas Lazio has a better Goal Difference by +11 goals.
They have both played 26 games of 38.
The league is planning to decide what to do about this season on May 28th.
Could you imagine if that was the scenario here between the top 2 SPL teams…?
StevieBC, Civil War !
Corrupt official 20th May 2020 at 06:54
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Celtic have offered season ticket holders a refund on the unplayed matches. Some will accept the refund, and some not, and it is very hard to predict a percentage either way.
…………….
Some will accept the refund, and some not,Of those who will refuse the refund, I would hope many would be happy to write a wee letter saying to the PLC, “Are you worthy of our goodwill? and Trust? If the Answer is yes you can keep my season ticket refund. If the Answer is NO i will be happy to take my season Ticket refund and donate it to charity.
This lets the board answer a question, if they do supply an answer, and it lets the season Ticket holder know were they stand with the board.It also lets the board know many fans are not happy.
Cluster One 20th May 2020 at 16:03
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm not sure why you have to ask the Board again. This answer has been painfully clear ever since Res12 was tabled all those years ago.
As JC says further up this thread. If there is evidence of a crime having been committed then the Res12 guys should pass it to Police Scotland via their lawyer and ask for it to be investigated.
StevieBC 20th May 2020 at 14:04
Stevie, the club and fanbase may be green & white, but the PLC board is most definitely the colour of money…..No surprises there I'm afraid.
Ian Maxwell is on Scotland Tonight tomorrow (if that makes sense
) at 1930 on STV. He’s speaking on how Covid-19 has affected & will further affect Scottish football.
You can email in questions for him:
scotland.tonight@stv.tv
Also via Facebook & Twitter…
Corrupt Official, I have sent you a DM re your query.
Bogs Dollox 20th May 2020 at 16:33
'…As JC says further up this thread. If there is evidence of a crime having been committed then the Res12 guys should pass it to Police Scotland via their lawyer and ask for it to be investigated.'
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Oh, that the FBI and the United States Attorney General's office had locus in the matter!
The account of how, using United States banking legislation ,they were able to nail the FIFA world cup bribe recipients who weren't even US citizens was a joy to read!
Sadly, it seems to me, alleged jiggery-pokery in the matter of say, a club in Scotland ,or anyone associated with a club in Scotland , profiting from that club allegedly lying in order to get money from UEFA to which it may not be entitled appears not to fall within the purview of the US Attorney General or the FBI.
And, of course, our COPFS and our gendarmes are not in the same league [ no pun intended] as the US Attorney General's office and the FBI when it comes to gathering evidence and prosecuting alleged conspirators.
Pity.
You know, the more I try to educate myself in the ways of the world of companies and shares the more ignorant I find myself to be!
Instead of taking Mrs C to Portobello beach today (as we thought of doing, but decided as good citizens, to 'stay home') I spent some time trying to educate myself in matter of companies, shares, and how all that kind of thing works.
I tried to follow and understand the information provided on the Companies House website, taking as my 'case study' the company that we have speculating about on this SFM blog…. J Carter Sporting Club Ltd.
I spent some considerable time on it.
My findings are:
that the company founded by the two brothers Beahon , incorporated on 6 July 2015 with a share capital of 100 shares of 50p each, the brothers each having 50 shares, subsequently subdivided into 50 000 shares of nominal value £0.001, had on 6 March 2020 a share capital of 103 760, after an allotment of 4223 shares .
The price paid per share at that allotment was ….. £338.67.
One of the early shareholders is Tom Singh . Never heard of him but he's one those guys that own a chain of department stores , and his personal wealth is estimated be in the region of £254 million. He holds only 2731 shares, and is only one of 29 shareholders.
Further, I see that somewhere in the most recent Articles of Association that a company called Redrice Ventures Ltd is mentioned, and the letters IPO are in there somewhere possibly in connection with a flotation on the market.
And at that point I lost the will to live.
No doubt everything is legal , and I'm not for one minute suggesting anything else, and every company in the UK has similar .
But I'm still blowed as to how a company that doesn't itself actually make anything makes money for its shareholders!
ps. My neighbour told me earlier this evening that the polis were hunting people aff Portobello promenade.
Jingso.Jimsie 20th May 2020 at 19:27
‘..You can email in questions for him:’
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
What price a question about the decision not to go to CAS on the Res 12 issue getting an airing?
No fecking chance whatsoever.
That so many, many individuals and organisations are prepared to put up with such a rotten to the core Sports governance body , lying and cheating at every turn is a terrible indictment of Scottish sport.
A plague upon them, as Shakespeare has my Lord Suffolk saying;
[Act III ii 318 Henry VI prt 2]
“A plague upon them! wherefore should I curse them?
Would curses kill, as doth the mandrake’s groan,
I would invent as bitter-searching terms,
As curst, as harsh and horrible to hear,
Deliver’d strongly through my fixed teeth,
With full as many signs of deadly hate,
As lean-faced Envy in her loathsome cave:
My tongue should stumble in mine earnest words;
Mine eyes should sparkle like the beaten flint;
Mine hair be fixed on end, as one distract;
Ay, every joint should seem to curse and ban:
And even now my burthen’d heart would break,
Should I not curse them. Poison be their drink!
Gall, worse than gall, the daintiest that they taste!
Their sweetest shade a grove of cypress trees!
Their chiefest prospect murdering basilisks!
Their softest touch as smart as lizards’ sting!
Their music frightful as the serpent’s hiss,
And boding screech-owls make the concert full!
All the foul terrors in dark-seated hell—
On which literary note ( googled, of course!), I bid you goodnight.
LUGOSI 20th May 2020 at 08:23
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Auldheid 19th May 2020 at 22:26
I don't know what "jousting with JasBoyd on Twitter" has occurred but I know I won't be wasting my time finding out.
JasBoyd on Twitter is yet another iteration of Spoutpish; aka Niall Walker, The Lawman, Steerpike, Ernest Becker and others too numerous and tedious to recall but each claiming to be a reasonable chap.
———————–
For the avoidance of doubt someone who likes playing sematic tag with him sent me a copy of recent tweets including the lies I mentioned.
I've better things to do with my time than indulge in his fantasies but when he tells porkies I think it right they are shown up as such.
Auldheid 21st May 2020 at 03:27
For the avoidance of doubt someone who likes playing sematic tag with him sent me a copy of recent tweets including the lies I mentioned.
I’ve better things to do with my time than indulge in his fantasies but when he tells porkies I think it right they are shown up as such.
…………………
I Don’t enjoy playing sematic tag with him, but when he tells porkies and drags his minions into the open.I think it right they are shown up as such.
Insolvency guru Blair Nimmo (Do you have to have Nimmo in your name to speak rubbish?)
Anyway.
Insolvency guru Blair Nimmo. Finance expert Nimmo previously involved in the administration of Airdrie and Hearts amoung a dozen scottish clubs has called for the SPFL to change their own rules so there's no repeat of clubs like rangers being Dumped down the divisions for entering Administration.
………………………
Now a Financial guru involved in the Administration of a Dozen scottish clubs would know for a fact you don't get Dumped down divisions for going into Administration.
…
He goes on.(I know by now you would have thought he would have chucked it.)
If a football club's going to the wall could anything be done to help. If this all ends with club's being insolvent will the SPFL stick to their rules, (yes by this time i was laughing).
Stick to their rules and go through the same progress as in the past?
Unless you're totaly anti-rangers, i don't think many people would say sending them down the divisions when they did was a good thing for scottish football.
Nimmo head of business recovery at accounting giants KPMG the only thing you got right in that article was when you said "I don't think"
Cluster One 21st May 2020 at 12:29
"…Insolvency guru Blair Nimmo…"
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If there are others as crassly and insidiously stupid in KPMG as Nimmo then no wonder we have reports like this
"Reports that accountancy firm KPMG is facing a £250m negligence lawsuit over its role in Carillion’s collapse highlights the need for Government to address the UK’s ‘rotten system of bandit capitalism’, urges Unite
According to reports, the official receiver is preparing a lawsuit against KPMG for declaring Carillion ‘profitable and sustainable’ in 2016."
https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/planning-construction-news/negligence-lawsuit-kpmg/76262/
We all witnessed the 3 or 4 weeks of incessant SMSM coverage of TRFC’s assault on the SPFL.
TRFC also made personal attacks on 3 SPFL individuals – even dragging up ancient, unsubstantiated allegations from ‘Private Eye’.
But, the SMSM generally provided TRFC full, supporting coverage, and obediently copied/pasted assorted nonsense.
Then, we have just had a monumental decision handed down by the SFA – to not refer the TRFC Euro license complaint to CAS.
A huge story.
That was on Tuesday: today it’s dropped off the radar.
No analysis or follow up questioning. Just dropped.
And shamefully, you will now be hard pressed to even find the reporting of the SFA decision at BBC Scotland online.
Reading that the Albion car park is earmarked for some housing. Now we know the car park is needed for a licence to be granted for the club deck to be open and we know that close brothers held security over the Albion car park, what i and maybe others do not know is has the security been cleared or not? then who has sold the land or part of the land. Not much information in the smsm about this, but all over the Albion car park land when it has been used as security for loans by different ibrox boards.
StevieBC 21st May 2020 at 13:30
……………
Dropped like a hot stone, even the coverage in the smsm was hard to find a small section a few pages in from the back saying the SFA have dropped it. No questions of why, no detail no journalism no Scrutiny and yet only days before call ing for transparency independent investigations and clarity. Maybe they just burnt themselves out asking questions days before.
JC/Everybody
You might be interested in the lyrics of this song, written in the aftermath
of the second gulf fiasco and a certain T Blair.
Just as relevant today and not necessarily exclusive to politics
Every Bloody Emperor
By this we are all sustained: a belief in human nature
and in justice and parity…all we have is the faith to carry on.
Imperceptible the change as our votes become mere gestures
and our lords and masters determine to cast us in the roles of serfs and slaves
in the new empire's name.
Yes and every bloody emperor claims that freedom is his cause
as he buffs up on his common touch as a get-out clause.
Unto nations nations speak in the language of the gutter;
trading primetime insults, the imperial impulse extends across the screen.
Truth's been beaten to its knees; the lies embed ad infinitum
till their repetition becomes a dictum we're traitors to disbelieve.
With what impotence we grieve for the democratic process
as our glorious leaders conspire to feed us the last dregs of imperious disdain
in the new empire's name.
Yes and every bloody emperor's got his hand up history's skirt
as he poses for posterity over the fresh-dug dirt.
Yes and every bloody emperor with his sickly rictus grin
talks his way out of nearly anything but the lie within
because every bloody emperor thinks his right to rule divine
so he'll go spinning and spinning and spinning into his own decline.
Imperceptible the change as one by one our voices falter
and the double standards of propaganda still all our righteous rage.
By this we are all sustained: our belief in human nature.
But our faith diminishes – close to the finish, we're only serfs and slaves
as the empire decays.
HS
Mr Nimmo seems to have changed his tune.
"“I wouldn’t pretend to know the ins-and-outs of Rangers’ finances but they’re just like any other business."
This a direct quote from an article regarding the sale of Boydichenko to Birmingham City in 2009. Quite why Mr. Nimmo was the go to guy in those days maybe hints at his recent interest in current Scottish football financial affairs.Oh for the days of Neil Patey, another character from a blue chip accountancy firm who used to give solace to the liquidated club fans.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/archives/news/18792/blair-murray-is-right-to-sell/
Cluster One 21st May 2020 at 14:12
'..has the security been cleared or not?'
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Still shown as 'outstanding' on the TRFC Companies House website
Created
26 February 2019
Delivered
1 March 2019
Status
Outstanding
Transaction Filed
Registration of a charge (MR01)
Persons entitled
Brief description
(1) all and whole the subjects on the west side of broomloan road, glasgow registered in the land register of scotland under title number GLA68492; and (2) all and whole the subjects known as edmiston house, harrison drive, glasgow, G51 2YX, being the subjects registered in the land register of scotland under title number GLA29534 and GLA62016.
Contains negative pledge.
IF that is where the proposed housing development is to be?
Development footprint here
https://merchanthomes.co.uk/sites/default/files/AHI_Public_Consultation_Information.pdf
Higgy's Shoes 21st May 2020 at 16:24
'…Every Bloody Emperor..'
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Just had a look and listen on youtube. Very interesting, indeed-both lyrics and tune.
'Truth beaten to its knees' is a perfect way to describe the 5-Way Agreement and the recent SFA announcement.
Re the Ibrox planning application:
https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/article/17401/View-List-of-Planning-Applications
…leads to:
https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=49332&p=0
…and on page 20:
Reference: 20/00870/PAN Community Cnl: Ibrox & Cessnock
Address: Site At Edmiston Drive/Paisley Road West/Skene Road/Hinshelwood Drive/ Broomloan Road Glasgow
Proposal: Erection of residential development (160 units) and associated works
Additional Consultations Required Date Received: 19.03.2020
Earliest Date for Planning Application: 11.06.2020
Prospective Applicant: Merchant Homes Partnerships Limited
Agent Details Contact details for prospective applicant: Merchant Homes Partnerships Limited, Merchant House, 365 Govan Road Glasgow G51 2SE Tel: 0141 420 2026
Ward: Govan
Type: Proposal of Application Notice Case Officer: Alan Graham, 0141 287 6045
Listing: Cons Area: Map Reference: (E) 255314 (N) 664531
Edit: beaten to it by Corrupt Official at 1924! From the Merchant Homes package:
‘The site continued its use a greyhound track until the 1960s
when it was purchased by the football club and redeveloped
as their training ground. It was used for this purpose until Ibrox
Stadium itself was redeveloped in the 1980s and the training
ground changed use to act as the Albion matchday carpark
which it remains as currently.’
Just watched STV's Scotland Tonight programme, about the future of Scottish football, with Maxwell in the studio for the last 10+ minutes.
First time I've watched/seen him on TV, as he tends to assiduously avoid engaging with the SMSM.
First impression: looked like he had strolled in from the street in an open necked shirt. I prefer to only wear a tie at work when I think it's 'necessary'. Maxwell should have worn an SFA tie on a rare TV appearance, IMO.
He was very unimpressive. Not reassuring, not confident and rather vague in his answers generally, IMO.
He received only a few soft ball questions.
And, of course, no mention of the SFA decision issued on Tuesday about dropping the Ibrox Complaint and CAS.
It could be argued that if the SFA had handled that matter better, then the SFA could count on more goodwill amongst supporters – e.g. to potentially attend a 'hub stadium' – which undoubtedly would include the dreadful, unfit for purpose Hampden.
Maxwell should have stayed in the bunker.
Had a look at the plans for Albion Road and the proposal covers half of the site for the new dwellings while retaining the other half for its current use as a car park. It is not clear if this facility will be for the residents or not. It would be a hard sell without including parking and will obviously need to be secured somehow. I wonder if it is to be a joint development involving TRFC and Merchant.
Merchant Homes have confirmed: "A Proposal of Application Notice was submitted Glasgow City Council on 17th March 2020 outlining the intentions of Merchant Homes Partnerships Limited to develop the site."
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/rangers-ibrox-flats-albion-car-18285635
gunnerb 21st May 2020 at 20:58
gunner, I think a joint venture of Sevco and just about anybody, can be ruled out.. They can't even afford their own fan-zone.
They can't really sell it, as its the muster-point for the club deck, and a safety cert requirement.
I think its more likely Sevco are just seeking planning consents trying to increase its paper land value, to use as loan security. Considering the assets Close Finance required to secure a pittance, it obviously doesn't have high value as is.
gunnerb 21st May 2020 at 16:32
Why was Nimmo able to comment on Rangers finances back then?
Err – because he one of the leading Insolvency Practioners at the time and had access to financial information/intelligence and gossip and knew what the state of Rangers finanicial issues were.
It was apparent even to Hugh Keevins back then the Old Rangers share issue failed in 2006(?) when the effect was to shift the debt (£52m) into the Murray group. He even said so on Radio Clyde.
Nimmo supports Falkirk btw and given the state of their finances maybe that's where he is coming from. But heyho. There's only two teams.
Given that the 'charge' over the car park is still outstanding one concludes that TRFC still own the property, and (presumably) have decided to build houses on it.
Under Paras 6.3 and 6.4 of the 'charge', they absolutely need the consent of Close Bros before they change the use of the property or arrange for a planning application or convey or transfer the property.
In so far as Merchant Homes Partnership has submitted a planning application permission Close Bros must have given consent.
Merchant Homes Partnership is a 2-Director house-building outfit, with ( last accounts 2018) about 26 employees , and a turnover of £13 million and profit of £276K.There is a third shareholder.
The two directors are Alan Brander and Ms Linda McCluskie each a Person with Significant Control ( the share Capital is 100)
Bogs Dollox 21st May 2020 at 22:26
Nimmo supports Falkirk btw and given the state of their finances maybe that's where he is coming from. But heyho. There's only two teams.
————————————————
Suitably admonished BD, I was unaware of Blair Nimmo's Falkirk connection but the point I was trying to make was to contrast his recent comments re special cases to be made for insolvent football clubs with his just like any business approach of yesteyear.
Neil Patey
Use to be the go to guy back in the day. Wonder why they brought out the Nimmo guy at this time ?
Read somewhere that the close brothers loan was due no later than June 30, 2020, Almost time to pay back that loan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAajf_jxw14
Is there a more scenic football "stadium" in the world?
HS
John Clark 21st May 2020 at 22:31
Given that the 'charge' over the car park is still outstanding one concludes that TRFC still own the property, and (presumably) have decided to build houses on it.
Under Paras 6.3 and 6.4 of the 'charge', they absolutely need the consent of Close Bros before they change the use of the property or arrange for a planning application or convey or transfer the property.
===============
They absolutely needed to offer Mike Ashley the right to match their Hummel / Elite kit deal, but didn't. The cost to them of not doing so is potentially very damaging. Perhaps they think Planning Law is covered under the Five Way Agreement.
This might be of interest .
https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2020/05/21/the-contracts-that-sold-rangers-to-craig-whyte/
In the neverending refusal by some to accept the conclusion and outcome of the 2019/2020 SPFL season some words get bandied about in, presumably, a hope to diminish or negate the value or worth of being Champions.
Words such as "tainted", "undeserved", "given" and "unsporting" often appear and the favourite seems to be the oft suggested obligatory inclusion in the records of an "asterisk".
I note that SuperSalary McCoist is on record as being an "asterisk" man and his voice must carry some weight. You cannot ignore the views of someone who while managing a brand new football club in the lowest Division possible in a small country in the north of Europe was worth paying an annual stipend greater than David Cameron, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany and Barack Obama, President of the United States of America. Accordingly, this guy has to be good. Combined. Did I mention combined? Cameron, Merkel and Obama's salaries when added together were less than Mr McCoist's paypoke. One wonders how much more he could have earned if he actually read his contract before he signed it.
I'm with Mr McCoist on the asterisk point but I think his view is simply to append an asterisk beside this year's outcome which would be meaningless. The whole point of such an asterisk would be to draw attention to an explanatory footnote or annotation. I have no difficulty in such an asterisk and explanation being used. My suggestion would be that the 2019/2020 Champions be named, followed by an asterisk and an explanatory footnote: "Epidemic Beset Title".
The same principle should apply to every Title or Trophy when an explanatory footnote is required. By my reckoning since 2000 about seventeen asterisks will precede the one this year.
If it saves time the abbreviation of this year's explanatory footnote could be used for all asterisks.
Higgy's Shoes.
If you have an idle moment do a Google earth flyover of the Faroe Isles (where I think that's taken) focussing in on almost all of the major towns and you'll immediately see, easily, 5 or 6 such constructions.
There is a point to be made on the politics, republicanism (of Europe) and financing of such investment.
But Im not making it!
theredpill 22nd May 2020 at 08:51
'.This might be of interest .
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
And so it is, trp. Great to see RTC the person back again. Thanks for posting that link-I might otherwise have missed it.
upthehoops 22nd May 2020 at 06:50
Under Paras 6.3 and 6.4 of the ‘charge’, they absolutely need the consent of Close Bros before they change the use of the property or arrange for a planning application or convey or transfer the property.
===============
They absolutely needed to offer Mike Ashley the right to match their Hummel / Elite kit deal, but didn’t. The cost to them of not doing so is potentially very damaging. Perhaps they think Planning Law is covered under the Five Way Agreement.
…………………..
Loan to be repaid soon, so let us feck up the terms of the loan, kick the repayment plan down the road. That is the kind of thing we have come to expect from down ibrox way.
BP or Tris, there was a long post by BRTH on CQN yesterday
BROGAN ROGAN TREVINO AND HOGANon 21ST MAY 2020 12:59 PM
I didn’t want to presume by copying and pasting it on here but I feel that it gets to the heart of the Res 12 issue by someone who has been closely involved in it from the beginning.
Might be worth putting it up as a new blog post with BRTH’s permission?
As a Thistle fan , I'm intrigued by the support and urging from TRFC fans to take legal action against SPFL over our being placed in a lower division , much as they believe happened to them eight years ago . Hopefully somebody can direct me to the legal action they took when they were similarly dispossessed by SPL (in their eyes – I know they died ).
Now that much of rancour and recriminations related to ending the season have subsided (for now), I can probably resume posting without fear of venting my frustration or anger through my posts (again for now).
We are just a few days from UEFA’s self imposed deadline (25 May) for countries to advise how/when their respective leagues will be completed. Following on from that, I expect that UEFA will be in a position to outline both when and how the CL and EL for season 2019/20 will be completed, together with any considerations for clubs who remain unable to play due to their governments’ restrictions.
With that in mind, the CL and EL entry list for season 2020/21 should be closer to being finalised. However, we have had no indication, as yet, about when the qualifying rounds will played, if at all. The first CL preliminary qualifying round was originally scheduled to start on 23 June, with Celtic scheduled to play their first qualifying round tie on 7/8 July.
Maintaining that schedule seems to be impossible, so what will UEFA do? Can games be scheduled in August or early September, or will UEFA make a unilateral decision to dispense with qualifying for the CL and just go straight to the group stage.
Any change to the qualifying format could affect Celtic depending on the entry criteria applied. It could either see Celtic granted direct entry to the group stages, or equally so excluded from the tournament, given their normal QR1 starting point.
Celtic’s UEFA coefficient is probably just high enough to see them seeded to progress to the group stages through the “Champions qualifying route”, but isn’t high enough to see them ranked among the top 32 clubs from the full CL entry list. It may depend on which method UEFA uses and how much scope there is for scheduling qualifying rounds during July and August.
It may be that the fear of exclusion is driving the SPFL’s desire to restart football in July and for then to exert pressure on the the Scottish Government to treat football as a special case.
How would Celtic fans feel if UEFA chose to dispense with CL qualifying and saw the club consigned to the EL group stages?
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/05/22/did-the-scottish-football-association-and-sevco-do-a-deal-in-2018-to-bury-resolution-12/
……………
Phil’s latest questions to the SFA.
Aurellio Zen 22nd May 2020 at 14:16
BP or Tris, there was a long post by BRTH on CQN yesterday
I didn’t want to presume by copying and pasting it on here but I feel that it gets to the heart of the Res 12 issue by someone who has been closely involved in it from the beginning.
===================================
I read that post yesterday. It's a good summary of how Res 12 got to where it is and the issues encountered along the way.
Re Brogan, Rogan, Trevino and Hogan, I know who the last 2 are but I'm not familiar with the other 2 names. Is there a joke in there I'm missing?
I'm sure a knowledeable member on here will be able to enlighten me.
After the SFA decision on Tuesday to drop the CAS referral, I thought it might be worthwhile to check the SFA website to see if its own goals and objectives had been changed/updated since the arrival of the new CEO and (Executive) President.
Nope, looks the same.
And this latest decision probably tops off ‘Vision 2020’ quite nicely… in the eyes of the blazers anyway!
For your amusement / annoyance, below has been copied from the SFA website, just in case anyone had forgotten what they are supposed to be doing on the 6th floor at Hampden.
===================
“Our Strategy & Values
In 2011, the Scottish FA underwent the most radical changes in its history, enabling us to lead the game into a new era. Fundamental changes were implemented in governance, branding and operational structures, and the launch of our strategic plan,
Scotland United: A 2020 Vision
outlined the ambition, values and goals that underpin the organisation and its many facets. The plan encompasses four strategic pillars:
• Perform and Win
• Strong Quality Growth
• Better financial returns
• Respected and Trusted to Lead
The strategic plan is the basis of everything we do, and includes our mission, our values, and our objectives to 2015.
Our Values
We are committed to the principles of development and fair play and expect everyone in the Game to do the same
We are ambitious and we do all that we can to fulfil ours and the game’s potential.
We respect each other and the football family overall. Diversity brings success.
We promote and cultivate a positive and inclusive team ethic both internally and externally. Togetherness is our strength.
The Scottish FA takes its values seriously.
They are more than a set of words: they represent the organisation as a whole, to ensure the highest standards of professionalism are achieved and maintained.
The Scottish FA’s values are reflected in all that we do, both internally and externally. ”
========================
Ballyargus 22nd May 2020 at 17:44
I'm not familiar with the other 2 names.
I'm sure a knowledeable member on here will be able to enlighten me.
==============================
A couple of Celtic full backs from yesteryear.
Ballyargus:
I see ej has replied but I thought trevino and hogan referred to golfing greats. Mibbees I'm wrong.
Doh.. Just realised EJ has me hook line etc LoL
I always thought it was a line from “Delaney’s Donkey” ?
I'm just delighted to see you back EJ. I've missed you. AJ and Wottpi, where are you guys? I for one have missed your insightful contributions.
Ballyargus22nd May 2020 at 17:44
Trevino and Hogan- (very) famous golfers.
He writes very well on a variety of sports and is worth looking up.
easyJambo 22nd May 2020 at 17:01
———
I would not be in favour of anyone returning to their place of work while there is a risk of them catching COVID-19, and since there is some evidence that the virus leaves an effect on the lungs, heart and kidneys in the short to medium term at least, professional footballers would be particularly well advised not to. I would rather CFC players therefore did not play any matches until that risk has been removed or demonstrated to be negligible. Should this result in being "relegated" to the Europa League under UEFA proposals, then so be it and suffer it. It's only for one season, we'll be back next year.
macfurgly
ive not stopped working in construction this year as government deemed my site of national interest,so no furlough,i just come home every 3 weeks for a couple of days,a few of my mates are wanting to get in the same place as they are now skint,the traffic on motorway in england was back to being busy whilst scotland was empty,weird feeling with england nearly back to normal and scotland still quiet,sorry wee off the fitbaw comment
Your welcome JC
easyJambo 22nd May 2020 at 17:01
How would Celtic fans feel if UEFA chose to dispense with CL qualifying and saw the club consigned to the EL group stages?
=========
There wouldn't be much we could do about it I'm afraid. There are so many unknowns right now.
tony 22nd May 2020 at 20:02
——–
Good luck to you and your mates, I hope you stay healthy, but I'm sticking with H+S.
I see professional sport is in Phase 2 of the unlockdown, which would seem to be from the last week in June if all goes well.
I have a nightmare vision of French Eddy contracting the virus. Fans of other clubs will have similar I'm sure.
Cluster One 21st May 2020 at 23:14
'…..Read somewhere that the close brothers loan was due no later than June 30, 2020, Almost time to pay back that loan'
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Release from the Standard Security SC425159 0015 over the Albion Car park is obtained 'upon the expiry of the 'Security Period', and 'Security period' is defined 'the period beginning on the date o this standard security and ending on the date [ edit: I'll reduce the verbiage, and use ].. 'when all the secured liabilities have been discharged"
That is, it's not a loan with a fixed date of repayment. However long TRFC owe monies to their lender, their lender is making money through any repayments + interest until the whole borrowed sum has been repaid, secure in the knowledge that if a default event occurs, they can grab the properties itemised in the standard security.
The loan you remember seeing which had a repayment date of next month may be another , perhaps a smaller loan of a more ordinary type?
I don't know, of course, but I'm enjoying myself reading about that kind of stuff, and trying to make sense of it.
But it's galling to think that tykes like CW and the members of the Ibrox board know their way about in that world, a world in which I would be as a babe in arms!
easyJambo 22nd May 2020 at 18:35
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Welcome back, eJ!
Maybe it’s his take on “Hogan, Logan and Mary Ann Macgraw”.
Most people don’t know that Val Doonican was a grumpy old B and picked on and gave out constantly to one and all especially a pal of mine who was a student at the time working at a theatre one summer in the early 80s where the Val Doonican Show was playing.
Having had weeks of abuse and living in fear of his next bollocking he got his own back.
When Val sat on his rocking chair at the end of a show to sing the last song and smile sweetly at his aged female fans he got a surprise
He quickly realised that his beloved chair had just been varnished and he was sticking to it.
So while he was singing and in character trying to look like everyones favourite whatever the audience were unaware he was varnished to his seat and all the long abused crew were pissing themselves.
Uncle Val, pro that he is finished the song then went ballistic throwing a hissy fit after his smiling curtain call.
And this is a football story as the varnishing student went on to be one of our top football refs!
John Clark 22nd May 2020 at 22:03
Thanks JC.
The Chairman of the Scottish Football Supporters Association, (SFSA), has penned a few blogs recently and I referred to their site today to read the coverage of the SFA’s decision on Tuesday.
There was a mention, including;
“…I’m no expert but have been told the decision raises more questions than it resolves and none of the decision makers come out of it with any credit.
My sources said too much is in the public domain for this one to slip into the oblivion the authorities would like.”
========
Would anyone know if the SFSA has any plans to publicly convey the level of disappointment / concern / anger of football supporters about this decision – and/or to the SFA directly?
StevieBC 23rd May 2020 at 13:45
—–
Their last newsletter, dated May 16th., would have been distributed before that announcement was made. Watch the space, but I doubt it would be paid much attention if they did.
easyJambo 22nd May 2020 at 17:01
How would Celtic fans feel if UEFA chose to dispense with CL qualifying and saw the club consigned to the EL group stages?
……………
For me it is what it is in these times, i suppose things are not perfect (as if they evere were)IF Sacrifices have to be made they have to be made, just my opinion.
StevieBC 22nd May 2020 at 18:01
• Perform and Win
• Strong Quality Growth
• Better financial returns
• Respected and Trusted to Lead
……………..
I don’t have my Glasses on but is that an Asterisk in front of the 4 values ?
Not going down well .
Finloch 23rd May 2020 at 07:24
Finloch has a thumbs down. Could reasonablechap be Val Doonican's mum? I think we should be told.
I don’t know the veracity of information I received today, but it was suggested that the collapse of “Specialist Leisure” (Shearings, Wallace Arnold etc.) will have a direct impact on the Parks of Hamilton group, as the travel companies used Parks coaches with their own liveries. Most business failures tend to have a knock on impact on the supply chains, so this one could be little different.
It’s worth noting that the Parks have taken more than £20m out the business in dividends in the last couple of years. (some of that will have found its way into the Ibrox coffers)
We could mibbes take a leaf out of Turkish football's book by having life-sized cardboard cutouts of ST holders placed on seating for behind-closed-doors matches . Give the occasion a more normal look (it would still look too frenetic for Firhill , though !).
easyJambo 23rd May 2020 at 18:25
============
I imagine all coach companies must be feeling the pinch. Parks is also a car dealer so there will be an impact there too. I wonder if Mr Park will no longer be able to fund his £50,000 a season Executive Box at Celtic Park!
Paddy malarkey, LOL
jimbo 23rd May 2020 at 22:16
Hadn't seen this at the time – moneyspinner !!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52771326
Paddy, that and some sound effects might just be the answer! I'd hold back on fireworks though!
paddy malarkey 23rd May 2020 at 22:24
‘..Hadn’t seen this at the time – moneyspinner !!’
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Geez! There’s the answer to the ‘behind closed doors’ problem;
A real fan sitting at home watching a match through the eyes of a dummy of himself which he remotely controls and a speaker in that dummy that he also controls and which will shout out his comments as he shouts at the TV!
Dyson, if you pick up this idea-I’ll only take 10% of the millions you might make.
And several thousand SFM readers are my witnesses!
Quick, where’s the address of the patent office, afore some dirty tyke gets in there afore me!
JC, you could be onto something there!
Virtual Reality is improving all the time.
You could be sitting at home wearing your headset, experiencing the 360' immersion in the stand.
And better still: no need for a real stadium to host the game.
That reduction in overheads must just appeal to certain clubs…
easyJambo 23rd May 2020 at 18:25
'.It’s worth noting that the Parks have taken more than £20m out the business in dividends in the last couple of years.'
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That sent me straight to the Companies House entry relating to Parks of Hamilton (Holdings) Ltd.
I note that there are 19 'charges' on properties owned by Park's ,created since 4th March 2020, 17 of which were created on 13th March.
Although I'm not at all very knowledgeable about these things and am always open to correction, I understand 'charges' to be the rough equivalent of my old man's demob suit : something put in hawk for a loan.
Not, however, being an absolute ingenu I know that very respectable and sound businesses and corporations borrow money as a matter of course, even when they pay substantial dividends to their owners and shareholders.
I've no real problem with that : they are in business to to make personal gain! And borrowing in order to expand business and make even more profit is fair enough.
A sudden rush to borrow in times of trouble is a horse of a different colour.
It betokens a difficulty, or anticipated difficulty in cash-flow – a huge gap between expenditure and income.
It might conceivably be that a too-readiness to take dividends could result in defaulting on the obligations incurred under the standard securities 'charges'.
Might. But what do I know?
While catching up on the latest on the Dominic Cummings alleged playing fast and loose with Lockdown rules/advice/guidance/legislation affair there seems to be a familiar pattern. We have a seemingly clear transgression which is at first ignored, then airily dismissed, then denied, then justified, then held up as evidence of higher moral and ethical standards and to deflect we have Statements, sorry, Tweets from most of the Cabinet (Regan, Doncaster, McCoist, Rage, McCann, Young, Jackson, English…) defending their man. While the public are making their minds up it transpires Defence Version 1 (OK, he drove +250 miles but once there he "stayed put") might not be true (OK, once there he went on a 30 mile jaunt for a day out) and it further transpires that after the first trip he went back to London (where he lives) and then made a second 250+ miles journey at a time when the Stay Home message was being insisted upon on a daily basis by every one of the Cabinet/Tweeters.
I await today's developments but will not be surprised if whoever draws the Coronavirus Daily Press Briefing short straw (and we know it won't be The Boris a) because he doesn't do weekends and b) he doesn't do much on any day:- last week the score for Daily Press Briefings was Nicola Sturgeon 59, The Boris 4 ) settles matters. It will be declared that there is indeed a case to answer but due to a Five Way Agreement nobody who could actually do anything about it has jurisdiction and the matter will have to be further considered. Then, in about eighteen months time, there will be a one-line press release saying that due to implications (unspecified) the whole affair is being binned. Oh, and before anyone starts to get cute, there is no way this is getting referred to Johnny Foreigner, European Court Of Anything…Brexit Meant…Borders? No, that doesn't sound right…
Might be simpler to just fill in a few forms and come back as T'Dominic.
Ian Maxwell was on BBC yesterday talking about a wide range of stuff.
He wasn't asked about the decision earlier in the week that I read about on Phil's blog and here to drop the much talked about and delayed CAS progression of the Resolution 12 case.
I haven't read or seen anything about it anywhere in the press or heard it mentioned anywhere on the radio or tv and can't find it as a press release on the SFA site.
What was the Celtic reaction?
Finloch 24th May 2020 at 07:43
………..
What was the Celtic reaction?
…………..
As i said the other day. Can’t see any reaction until the next AGM. Silence is Golden, someone once sang.
paddy malarkey 23rd May 2020 at 22:24
‘..Hadn’t seen this at the time – moneyspinner !!’
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Geez! There’s the answer to the ‘behind closed doors’ problem;
A real fan sitting at home watching a match through the eyes of a dummy of himself which he remotely controls and a speaker in that dummy that he also controls and which will shout out his comments as he shouts at the TV!
Dyson, if you pick up this idea-I’ll only take 10% of the millions you might make.
And several thousand SFM readers are my witnesses!
Quick, where’s the address of the patent office, afore some dirty tyke gets in there afore me!
……..
Is it Hold my Beer they say ?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/football-club-forced-apologise-using-22044226
“We wanted to bring some fun elements to the no-fans game
"The Great Big Football Lockdown Survey"
The DR has a link to their survey, "to get the fans input" on Scottish football currently.
Initially I thought, ok at least they're asking… but what's the catch?
I know I shouldn't, but thought I'd complete it anyway out of curiosity.
A cheapy Survey Monkey effort.
First 19 questions are lame questions with a selection of answers. Nothing controversial and of course, nowhere to add comments.
But, then the real purpose of this 'Survey' kicks in.
Questions 20 to 27 are very specific about your demographic: age, sex, etc and even salary bracket!
And for completeness – and to no doubt receive all sorts of junk mail – they want your name and e-mail address.
The SMSM can't even run an honest survey.
"The Great Big Football Lockdown Data Grab" would be more accurate.
Cluster One 24th May 2020 at 10:46
Is it Hold my Beer they say ?
==================================
They could make a really "blue" version that deflates with half an hour still to play.
I wonder who Jim Spence could be talking about here? I have a couple of contenders in mind but couldn't possibly say.
@JimSpenceSport
Cummings was so media savvy that he didn’t suspect the papers would’ve been on to his scam. Good journos always have something up their sleeve, as one over confident but empty football figure may learn soon.
upthehoops
traynor?
easyJambo 22nd May 2020 at 17:01
How would Celtic fans feel if UEFA chose to dispense with CL qualifying and saw the club consigned to the EL group stages?
========================================
To answer your question, albeit a couple of days later.
Disappointed obviously. However I also accept that these are unprecedented times and that there are more important things than football matches. We have to be willing to adapt and accept that these are far from normal times.
I would also be a bit surprised that the CL had to do away with qualifying rounds, but the Europa didn't. That doesn't make sense to me.
I think it would be more likely that the teams who would normally be in the qualifiers for the CL would instead compete in the Europa. Starting with champions then moving down through the ranks.
So two competitions with no qualifiers, straight into group stages.
I haven't checked the numbers but it shouldn't be that hard to come up with 32 for the Europa using final places and co-efficients.
What would annoy me would be champions (from whatever country) not getting into either competition and lower placed teams from some countries getting a place.
The other option of course is to dispense with the Europa entirely, I think that is less likely though. Probably too much money involved nowadays.
Homunculus 24th May 2020 at 15:19
I would also be a bit surprised that the CL had to do away with qualifying rounds, but the Europa didn't. That doesn't make sense to me.
I think it would be more likely that the teams who would normally be in the qualifiers for the CL would instead compete in the Europa. Starting with champions then moving down through the ranks.
====================================
What I had in mind was that UEFA would dispense with CL qualifying completely with the group stages reserved for those direct entrants plus the clubs seeded to progress to the group stage from the qualifying rounds.
The EL would similarly be affected with the group stages reserved for those already qualified, those clubs deemed to be CL qualifying "losers" with a fallback to the EL, and the other highest seeded teams from the EL qualifiers.
Clubs deemed to be losers on the basis of their seeding would receive the normal prize money based on which rounds they were expected to progress to, e.g, if Aberdeen was seeded to lose in the 2nd qualifying round of the EL, then they would receive the distribution appropriate to having participated in two qualifying rounds.
We may end up with one or two qualifying rounds instead of four in each of the tournament, but the issue of who takes part and how they other clubs should be compensated remains.
There are other issues that will have to be resolved should any qualifying be curtailed, such as the allocation of coefficient points.
From UEFA's point of view, it wouldn't cost them any more in prize money than in a normal season. There is no UEFA TV deal for qualifying matches either, so the overall prize fund would also be unaffected.
tony 24th May 2020 at 15:00
===============
Is Traynor a football or media figure? Spence followed it up with another cryptic tweet which makes me think it is the CEO of a Championship club he is referring to.
upthehoops
been reporting on football for about 40 years,so i would say he's a football figure
Is Traynor, the ‘PR expert’, now advising Downing Street?
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, whilst simultaneously digging a bigger hole for yourself…
Boris desperately needs a huge, massive, fluffy squirrel to distract the angry masses.
Is lockdown now unofficially over…?
Unbelievable.
StevieBC 24th May 2020 at 00:11
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JC, you could be onto something there!
Virtual Reality is improving all the time.
You could be sitting at home wearing your headset, experiencing the 360′ immersion in the stand.
And better still: no need for a real stadium to host the game.
That reduction in overheads must just appeal to certain clubs
…………………
I never had time earlier but ment to add.
Had a go on one of the latest goggle things that you put on and a grid is drawn digitaly on the floor that if you step out off you are put back in the picture type of thing.
Are you still with me at this point ?
Once all set up i was put in a 360 star wars world…..Wow! you could see your hand lift things, open doors pick up a light sabre, you could walk around (Although walking on the edge of a building and looking down my legs were still shaking.
It was cast to the TV so everyone could watch what you were doing, you get lost in a star wars world, pretty amazing and i’m not a big fan. But it became or was so life like. Hence after that i don’t believe watching the game by way of this medium is not far away.
You could virtualy get on a train walk to the stadium walk up the stairs and sit down on a seat to watch a game all from the comfort of your own house. Pay for a game and the experiance through a head set thing.
….
Ps. if you ever get the chance to try one of these things ( i can’t remember the name of it but if anyone wants to know i will find out)
Anyway if you get the chance try it out, you will see what i mean for a future football experiance.
….
Pps. Don’t try the haunted house one, you have been warned.
Cluster One, it's the Oculus, Quest or Rift. I've had the Quest for a few months and the DK2 before that. Bloody Brilliant! Although they are other models available, from other makers at all good outlets. I think that covers it!
By the way. I kicked Darth Vaders arse!
I've got an Oculus Quest. Forget football – Beat Saber is the future
https://youtu.be/gV1sw4lfwFw
MercDoc 24th May 2020 at 20:10
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You will understand the all round 360 effect and how life like, that i was trying very badly to explain. And how this medium one day could become part of the football experiance.
spikeyheid 24th May 2020 at 21:10
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Just make sure you move the furniture out the road first, and again stay away from the haunted house.
You can watch recorded events ( Concerts, Sporting ) from different view points. I took a visit to Venice, down the canals. Google street view is fantastic.
MercDoc 24th May 2020 at 20:11
'.. I kicked Darth Vaders arse!'
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Was jabba not around? There's an arse that surely deserves a right good kick!
MercDoc 24th May 2020 at 22:31
'.You can watch recorded events ( Concerts, Sporting ) from different view points. I took a visit to Venice, down the canals. Google street view is fantastic.'
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Aye, very good, MercDoc!
You had me all agog- until I looked at the cost of virtual experiences!
Geez!
Real, actual experience might actually be cheaper( once this covid-19 thingy permits)!
( But maybe your blog name suggests that you might drive a Merc? and that money is no object?
)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52745468
' how do you survive when you're spending way more than you earn?
That's from some feckin would-be American writer!
God Almighty, that we have BBC folk changing our language !
U.S. cultural imperialism? You bet!
And just afore I go to bed on a promise, can I say that my mention of U.S. cultural imperialism should not put anyone off reading the great wee stories by that sports journalist Damon Runyan.
He writes brilliantly of the wee flashes of goodness in the hearts of very bad people.
But of course he was writing before the Liquidation of RFC of 1872 and the nonsense of the 5-Way agreement.
I think even he would have found it difficult to find any spark of goodness or truth in the governance of Scottish Football in 2012, or in 2020.
Decent interview with Tom English for a change
https://youtu.be/1XapVF3y5JI
Since SFM is about asking questions that the SMSM won’t, here is a curious observation about The Glasgow Times.
We know that on the footy side, The GT, Chris Jack, etc. cover all things Ibrox like a fanzine, with plentiful copy/paste articles with zero journalistic input.
We know that its print circulation is falling off a cliff, like all the other newspapers and the GT seems to have stepped up its pleading for monthly subscription payments, from £3/month.
So…
there is currently a major Scotland news story: a man was shot dead in his Ardrossan home yesterday about 5pm. In the last hour a man has been arrested in connection with this incident.
Tragic story that this is, it has been reported, as expected, by e.g. the BBC and The Daily Record. The DR online reported the shooting at 7.30pm last night. The BBC online has reported the update about the arrest within the last hour.
But, on The GT… nothing.
As at 10AM today there was absolutely nothing in The GT online about either the original shooting or the subsequent arrest.
Does The GT have any news journalists?
Is nobody manning The GT online – over a Bank Holiday weekend?
I’m assuming that there is no IT issue as the website has been accessible as normal – and there are updated stories today e.g. in the Sport section.
This surprising omission suggests that The GT must be in a pretty poor state of affairs if a major Scottish story is simply not covered.
Curious.
paddy malarkey 23rd May 2020 at 22:24
John Clark 23rd May 2020 at 23:08
Corrupt official 24th May 2020 at 11:42
Is it Hold my Beer they say ?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/football-club-forced-apologise-using-22044226
………………………
Good to know today’s smsm have been looking in.
Celtic Diary Monday May 25 : Part One : Resolution 12 : Where Now ?
………………..
http://etims.net/?p=15707&utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork
……………….
Hope it is ok to post. A long read but for anyone not up to speed, it will get you close enough.
Cluster One
cheers for that
Somebody had to say it.
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/sport/football/former-celtic-scotland-boss-gordon-18307808
I understand the point he is making and In his usual acerbic style of course. But equally there’s a huge part of me now that would rather travel 10 mins to enjoy all the social elements of my part timer £80 per week diddies than waste time and money on his expensive, formulaic league of what? 4,5 maybe?
Cluster One
that is an outstanding post by Brogan Rogan Trevino as per usual. As a Celtic fan I have thought for a long time now that the fact that Celtic would 'nt pursue the whole Res 12 in my book meant they were some how caught up in this whole Fraud ( for that is what it is ) . After reading that any doubts I may have had have sadly disappeared . Its hard to grasp why Celtic let themselves get so involved in this as out of all the clubs who have suffered from this debacle , Celtic probably lost more than anyone else , financially at least . The thing that really sticks in the craw for me is when Celtic were on their knees and Fergus McCann came in, for it all to work , ordinary fans had to play an important part . They were encouraged to dig deep into their pockets to buy shares . They did this !! For most fans this was a step in the dark , most fans probably had never bought a share in their lives before . Many probably could nt even afford to buy shares but they did. Many fans would have made REAL sacrifices to buy shares but they did . They did so because of the love they had for their club and they wanted it to survive so much . WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE for those fans who along with Fergus McCann saved the club . Not Dermott Desmond , not Peter Lawell not Ian Bankier etc etc BUT Fergus and the fans saved the club . The same club that the likes of Peter Lawell does so well financially out of . How dare they treat their own fans as if they are insignificant in all this . I genuinely hope that the more informed people like Brogan Rogan , Auldheid and many many others do take this further , this must be dealt with . It is a festering sore on our game that cant be allowed to eat away any longer. The SFA needs cleared out and people who engineered the ( multi million pound ) fraud hopefully do jail time . I suspect if it goes to court it may mean resignations for the likes of Peter Lawell who is looking more and more part of the dirty cover up by way of the 5WA . I would be saddenned by this but hey you went into bed with the devil.Peter. Yes the media would be up in arms over this but F~~k them . This is about governance NOT a celtic v Rangers thing . Get our governance right, then our rule book , get the right men in place , take the new SFA and set them up in somewhere like Aberdeen away from the west of scotland masonic cabal and watch our game flourish . Power to the Res 12 guys
From the Guardian .
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/may/24/my-favourite-game-dundee-shock-rangers-in-seven-goal-thriller
roddybhoy 25th May 2020 at 16:30
'.. This is about governance NOT a celtic v Rangers thing . Get our governance right, then our rule book.'
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Yes, roddybhoy, it is about Governance.
It was/is very convenient for
the SMSM and
the then SPL and SFL and
for those now whose 'fortunes' were founded on the myth that TRFC are the same 'Rangers' that allegedly (but , prima facie, with pretty sound grounds) may have lied in order to obtain a few million quid to which they were not entitled
to pass off the allegation as nothing more than inter-fan 'old firm' rivalry and therefore ignore, or try to, ignore it.
Very convenient.
Who knows which rotten bast.rts may have been uncovered as having been party to a fraud if a serious investigation had ,as it should have, been undertaken by the SFA?
The decision NOT to investigate in spite of the serious nature of the allegation and the prima facie evidence on which that allegation is based itself raises serious questions about the Governance of our 'Sport'.
My personal belief is that some individuals are guilty of crime and should be held to account for it. If I thought I would achieve anything by going as a private individual to the police to report my suspicions then I would.
But I realise that my going to my local cop shop would be a waste of time. A football club telling a porkie to get some money is, in their eyes [especially if it is their own club!
] nowhere near serious enough compared with the huge financial crimes perpetrated by huge corporations.
I believe also that those who should know better and who portray themselves as honest men honouring the memory of their spiritual founder should be ashamed of themselves , whether for their complicity or for their moral cowardice based on venality.
There was once a man who so put principle before 'business' that he was prepared to exit his club from Scottish Football on a matter of principle unconnected with any fraud or other criminal act by any club or by the SFA.
He will be revolving in his grave.
His successors have much to be ashamed about for not calling out the Governance body of Scottish Football.
It was one short week ago today that the SFA slipped out their decision to not refer to CAS – and in a typically sleekit manner.
And the frustrating / depressing realisation is that – in terms of governance – Scottish football has made zero/nil/nada etc. progress. It is still as corrupt, as incompetent and as unaccountable today, as it was back in 2012.
We still have Petrie and Doncaster pulling the strings.
We have all witnessed the 42 senior clubs supporting the status quo over the last 8 years.
It’s painfully clear: Hampden doesn’t want change – and the clubs don’t want change either.
What the fans want is irrelevant – but they do want/expect our cash!
Governance change might only come when it’s already too late.
https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-dominic-cummings-must-be-sacked?source_location=petitions_browse
Struggling to make this post football related but here goes.
A Scottish linesman who is also an MP, Douglas Ross, has resigned as a junior minister in the government. Because of the behaviour of an advisor to Boris J. the prime minister. A Mr. Cummings. You may have heard of him.
There is a petition to get him sacked, it has reached almost 3/4 of a million signatures so far.
jimbo 26th May 2020 at 18:42
A Scottish linesman who is also an MP, Douglas Ross, has resigned as a junior minister in the government.
==========================
It must be the biggest decision that an assistant referee has got right all season.
Who’s the Fine, upstanding, principled, courageous egalitarian in the black…..
who’s…..
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/05/26/a-matter-of-trust/
………………
Phils latest.
……………….
Maybe the SFA have seen the ibrox club in action these last few months, and thought feck that noise sign them through.
One can only hope the walls don’t come tumbling down around them, as this time there will be no hiding place.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ianis-hagi-completes-rangers-move-22090653
How can they afford this ?
Cluster One 26th May 2020 at 20:11
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/05/26/a-matter-of-trust/
=================================
PMGB may well be proved right eventually, but for a club that he has repeatedly suggested that is close to financial ruin, they seem to be surviving not too badly.
Sometimes there is too much wishful thinking when it comes to TRFC’s finances.
easyJambo 26th May 2020 at 19:00
This Douglas Ross , showing Boris the red card ?
https://twitter.com/i/status/972823987976884224
Anybody else hear that Genk suggested that TRFC pay the Hagi monies direct to CFC as Genk's payment for Kouassi but were told we don't do things that way here ?
easyJambo 26th May 2020 at 20:56
=====================================
Sorry, but you are having a laugh.
Substantial losses in every year of their existence. Loan after loan from directors and associates just to keep operating. Converting loans to worthless shares. More loans this season to cover losses. De-listed from the stock exchange, unable to get proper banking facilities. Going concern warnings in the accounts every year.
Yeah, doing fine financially, just like the previous club were, right up to the point of administration then liquidation.
You understand the accounts more than most people, are you seriously suggesting that Rangers are not a mess financially. What they have is people willing to put more and more money in. If that stops they are fecked.
They don't have a business model they have an expensive hobby.
tony 26th May 2020 at 20:54
This years Ryan Kent. They couldn't afford him either, but the directors have put money in to cover the losses.
I wonder if the deferred wages were used as a downpayment for Hagi, many a disgruntled squad member if it is so. The SFA must be sure of their ground on this occasion or perhaps like a TrumpCummian attitude we little people should respect our betters.
Homunculus 26th May 2020 at 22:2
This years Ryan Kent. They couldn't afford him either, but the directors have put money in to cover the losses.
—————————————————————————————
But can they do this without transgressing ffp rules? Their has been no further share issue so no debt for equity swap.I thought ffp was in place to stop financial doping of this sort unless the licence has been waved through as a force majeur effect of CVid.
https://twitter.com/BBCSportScot/status/1265367953479958529
It is now being reported that the Hagi deal is not complete.(as per CO above with twitter link)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52796014
Hagi: ha!
When you type in his name, predictive text inserts "hagiography'!
(A big word I learned on this site, of course.
)
I'll have a guess at a collapsing deal.
Hagi "wanted too much money, was greedy, and TRFC no longer want him".
Loan deal terminated with immediate effect, (by TRFC of course.)
According to the Ibrox 'PR expert' anyway…
Very quiet today. Mr Cummings causing too much of a distraction maybe!
First time I’ve posted here but I’ve been about since the blog rose from the RTC ashes.
I’ve got two things to get off my chest. One – the why don’t CFC back Res 12 question. Could it be that if SFA were guilty as charged, then a possible punishment would be banning Scottish clubs from Europe. Not in Celtic’s interest.
Or could it be that Celtic know shifty things were happening, retrospectively of course, with Euro licenses but as Celtic benefited from a higher Euro coefficient then they could be seen, as SFA representatives, as having deprived another club from a higher ranking and maybe even CL football. Again light being shed on this not in Celtic’s interest.
Or is it just they don’t get it. I though Martin O’Neill’s recent ramblings – on the 9 in a row show – showed, as a Celtic man, that he was well out of step with the views of most Celtic fans. Maybe 10 mins with people running the club would produce the same conclusion. Who knows!
Second thing. I read on here a couple of weeks back talk about the same club myth and that all the other scottish bankrupt clubs had gone under never to be seen again. We’ll that is a myth about the same club myth. That something special happened to Rangers that has never happened before. However, the reincarnation of the rangers team had to start lower than the reincarnation of Toulouse, Fiorentina, Derry City and others. And last season I sat in the North Stand at CP and looked out at a banner among the Hibs fans with 1875 (I think) on it. No one mentioned that Hibernians went bankrupt in the 1890s and a new club Hibernian came about 18 months later claiming to be the same club. For me the new Rangers – as the FIFA website stated before their first game – is a reincarnation of the dead club. Same brand. Just like Hibs. That’s what football does. Dead then resurrected. And that’s why Celtic should focus on their own unbroken history rather than cause themselves trouble pointing out that other clubs are ghosts.
Just my thoughts.
QF
Over a week ago, it was being reported in Belgium that Genk were keen to sell, and Sevco keen to buy. Fee was agreed, so all good there then, but the "Payment methods" were under negotiation. Empty Irn-Bru bottles are not considered legal tender in Belgium apparently. Probably a Brexit thing.
Since then, Michael Stewart has questioned Sevco's ability to fund such a deal, and based on known knowns, a legitimate question, but Alex Rae assured him all was fine. Hagi's agent had also tweeted, believing it was a done deal, before it was revealed it wasn't. Now we have similar from Genk itself.
It would appear to the layman that "Payment methods", are proving rather a difficult barrier to overcome……"Methods" is the term google translate returned, but could mean many things/contexts, ranging from third party suitably provenanced sums, to simple deposit and instalment terms.
Whatever the difficulties, to date it would appear promised payments either haven't materialised, or were in an unacceptable form and rejected.
No such difficulties have arisen from Genk's other transfer businesses.
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20200518_04964788
Corrupt official 27th May 2020 at 01:45
'. No such difficulties have arisen from Genk's other transfer businesses.'
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The link is all Greek to me, Corrupt official!
So yet again we have a proposed temporary 14-14-14 league structure for next season. This in the same week that the majority in the bottom two leagues and a number in the championship proposing mothballing their clubs until closed door games are no longer needed. For these teams financial meltdown is very likely if they are forced to play behind closed doors. Mothballing would give them a chance of survival.
To make 14-14-14 possible the leagues would have to ignore 60-70% of the clubs. Nothing new there then, waste time and effort planning for the improbable.
Our league needs to face up to what the rest of us know, that while there is no vaccine normal life and football is unpredictable. For now list all the teams in their finishing order from last season and then plan when things become clearer. If forward planning is desired then ask the clubs about mothballing and design with what is left, probably about 15-20 clubs.
Anybody for just one league next season?
Hamilton Accies’ auditors issue a going concern warning, in their accounts just published at Companies House.
I would expect similar "going concern" warnings in most clubs accounts going forward with the auditors covering their backsides.
Been off the site for a few days. Hagi? Really? What about the deferred wages? Players being let go etc. Anyway, back to Machiavelli & CO. You have to admit it’s better than Netflix or Amazon Prime.
easyJambo 27th May 2020 at 11:19
I would expect similar "going concern" warnings in most clubs accounts going forward with the auditors covering their backsides.
===============================================
I suspect you are correct about that EJ, but I did notice that this concern was registered prior to the league being called. I doubt that has significantly altered the precariousness of their situation, but it has clarified one of the unknowns.
Until the other unknowns are chipped away, clubs will remain on a knife-edge of uncertainty.
From the Guaria in February . Some learning outcomes for the SFA ?
https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/feb/23/belfast-celtic-ifa
Homunculus 26th May 2020 at 22:23
……………………..
AD Hoc i think Dave king described it at his last AGM, he also said this method was not sustanable and that a working group would be set up to look at generating income from player sales. Even king knew the way they were doing business could not go on forever.
…………………
gunnerb 26th May 2020 at 22:38
This years Ryan Kent.
But can they do this without transgressing ffp rules? Their has been no further share issue so no debt for equity swap.I thought ffp was in place to stop financial doping of this sort unless the licence has been waved through as a force majeur effect of CVid.
……………….
The euro licence has been as you say waved through.
8 ibrox players have left the building so to speak, their combined wages will more than cover this years Ryan kent. The Close to £mill deal is to be paid over three years. This will be the ibrox club’s biggest signing unless they can somehow sell a player.
QF 27th May 2020 at 00:18
First time I’ve posted here but I’ve been about since the blog rose from the RTC ashes.
………………..
I will be Gracious with a responce.I’ve been about since the blog rose from the RTC ashes.But you have taken nothing in that you have read.
UEFA to relax FFP regulations ‘to help cash-strapped clubs survive coronavirus crisis’ as the deadly virus continues to wreak havoc across globe
UEFA have elected to relax their Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations in order to help clubs that are struggling for cash to survive the coronavirus crisis.
European football’s governing body has extended the deadline for clubs to show that they don’t have any ‘undue payables’, consisting of unpaid tax bills, transfer instalments or wages, from March 31 to April 30.
In addition, UEFA stressed that the principle of ‘force majeure’, meaning greater force, will be taken into account when the finances of clubs are being assessed.
………………….
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8136627/UEFA-relax-FFP-regulations-help-cash-strapped-clubs-survive-coronavirus-crisis.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top
paddy malarkey 27th May 2020 at 13:32
"The Celtic directors, without ceremony or much public statement, gradually sold all the players, then withdrew from football forever"
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It's not an exact parallel ,of course, to the circumstances obtaining in the 'Res 12 matter,' but it's worth mentioning that those directors had principles and the balls to adhere to them.
Who, seriously, wants to play 'sport' in a rigged organisation? And meekly accept a point-blank refusal by a governance even to investigate a complaint made seriously and with some evidence clearly pointing t the need for investigation?
Just as well I buy a copy ! From the Guardian again
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/27/liverpool-among-clubs-argue-against-paying-330m-rebate-broadcasters-premier-league
Re Hagi signing for Rangers.
In my view it doesn't take much working out what will happen.
During his loan period some Scottish media outlets were willing to run with reports that this player was one of the best in his position in Europe, could be a £100m player, and that major Spanish and Italian clubs were after him. From all of that he has gone on to sign for Rangers for an undisclosed fee being paid up over several years. Genk were clearly not interested in keeping him, despite initially shelling out £4m for him.
Now that Hagi is here and whenever football begins again, we already know that the same media outlets will have his value up to around £15-20m very soon, maybe even higher. That will be the case even if it is based only on his performances in the Scottish league. There is already evidence they are willing to do that with Rangers players. Morelos for example before this season, when he has done well in Europe, was previously touted as being worth £20-25m based only on goals in Scotland. We were also asked to believe Glen Kamara went from a £50k player to one worth £6-10m in a few months. Based on what was the part they didn't tell us.
People will no doubt point to the buy low, sell high policy at Celtic, which has had some major successes, but those fees were based on what the players achieved in the Champions League, not Scotland alone. Going back to Hagi, he would have to do the same, and against real top quality teams. Otherwise the inevitable media attempts to secure Rangers a major fee will hit the same wall as all the other attempts. It won't stop them trying their hardest though.
It's just the way Scotland is.
We discussed this in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way some time back. From today's Times:
"A Japanese company has created a phone app that allows sports fan to cheer or boo their team remotely at sports events from which spectators are excluded because of the fear of the coronavirus.
Users of the Remote Cheerer app use their mobile phone to record their reaction or to select pre-recorded messages of encouragement or denunciation which will be relayed digitally and played through speakers at the ground.
The company behind the app, Yamaha, tested it this month at the 50,000 seat Shizuoka Stadium, southwest of Tokyo, during training by two team in Japan’s football J-League.
Fans can select from which one of 58 speakers their cheers will be broadcast, allowing them to respond to action in a particular part of the ground.
“At one point during the system field test, I closed my eyes and it felt like the cheering fans were right there in the stadium with me,” Keisuke Matsubayashi, a manager at the stadium, said. “That’s when I knew that this system had the potential to cheer players on even in a stadium of this size.”
The company says that it was in discussion about selling the system to sports grounds in Europe. It is working on voice recognition to censor foul or insulting language."
I read that the Aberdeen chairman reckons that it is time to streamline Scottish football by scrapping either the SPFL or The SFA, and things would improve if we switched back to one authority.
Cormack attracted criticism from his own fans after backing the ibrox club. But he is adamant hi standpoint was purely about governance.
…
Would a new one authority mean that a secret 5 way agreement signed with only one club in the SPFL be rendered meaningless and not woth the paper it is written on ?
upthehoops 28th May 2020 at 07:08
Re Hagi signing
……………
Hagi will be this years Morelos.
The Morelos project failed because the value speculation rose every time you picked up a paper. Will lessons have been learned down ibrox way of speculation on a players value? I very much doubt it, (Glen Kamara went from a £50k player to one worth £6-10m in a few months. Based on what was the part they didn’t tell us. ) Kamaras performance could not hold up to the value they were saying.they will try the same approach again, it is in their DNA.
Expect his worth to rise the more desperate for money the ibrox get, the more value put on his head the more desperate the ibrox club are. And the valuation has begun to rise already and the first down payment to Genk has not even got through the door yet.
upthehoops 28th May 2020 at 07:08
I think this whole thing about players value being increased by Scottish tabloid newspapers is a bit of a fallacy.
It is possible that it attracts clubs to have a look at a player, and if that player performs well may secure him a move. However I just don't see clubs who spend that sort of money putting any real stock in what a hack in the daily record has written.
As I say, in my opinion it may have a bit of an effect on them looking. However once that has been achieved they will have a whole scouting system in place, probably even different levels to go through. They will make the decisions on a, whether the club wants the player and b, what they are willing to pay.
Re Hagi himself. He has played a grand total of 12 games on loan at Rangers, scoring 3 goals. Of those 3 goals 2 were in the same game. A big European game which was probably his best performance for the club. From what I saw, other than that game he wasn't hugely impressive. Not a bad player but nothing spectacular.
Clearly they don't have as much to spend on this years messianic figure. He is no Ryan Kent.
The question I ask myself is this, would I want him. The simple answer is this, who would I take off the bench to put him on it. I can't think of anyone.
Grudgingly – of course – I have to admit to yet more scratching of the napper, as the financial basket that is RIFC/TRFC apparently buys another player. I just don't get it!
Yes, the payment terms could be very favourable for TRFC, with a minimal down payment. There might be a corresponding, heftier than normal sell-on clause for Genk. But, at this time you would think that freezing recruitment / trimming the squad and general overheads would be the priority?
Is Hagi going to sell X thousands extra ST's? Is this reasonable, 21 year old player going to transform TRFC into a title winning team? If not, then why add to the the mushrooming financial risk at Ibrox now?
I can only surmise that there is significant information that we just don't know, currently.
But the Ibrox club continues to kick that battered, old can down the road, and continues to confound Internet Bampots with every kick!
Re Hagi:
It’s worth remembering that TRFC hasn’t signed him yet. According to FIFA, the Scottish transfer window doesn’t open until 10.06.20.
He may sign, but he may not. I’d assume that the player isn’t in Scotland & probably not in Belgium either. I’d expect that TRFC would require a current medical, performed by their own staff, before committing to spend £3m.
Much could happen in the next two weeks.
J.J good shout!
Yes, at the very least it is "subject to a satisfactory medical".
And, IIRC, did TRFC not decline to sign a player and leaked that he had a (suspected) knee problem???
Can't remember who it was, but thought it was shoddy behaviour at the time.
The Romanian word for 'squirrel' is 'veveriţă'.
StevieBC 28th May 2020 at 11:14
Is Hagi going to sell X thousands extra ST’s? Is this reasonable, 21 year old player going to transform TRFC into a title winning team?
…………
Well if you are an old ibrox player dug out of the back of beyond and asked to give your opinion, well yes he is thay guy, so roll up roll up and get your feel good season ticket.
………………….
StevieBC 28th May 2020 at 11:36
not decline to sign a player and leaked that he had a (suspected) knee problem???
……….
The ibrox club were on the verge of signing John Hartson but (suspected) knee problem???
Did ok for celtic after that i believe.
Edit. Forgot to post link for above post.
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/sport/football/celtic-could-stopped-new-rangers-18322322
Homunculus 28th May 2020 at 10:50
I think this whole thing about players value being increased by Scottish tabloid newspapers is a bit of a fallacy.
===================
I don't necessarily disagree, I just find it pretty pathetic that they try so hard. Of course, modern day newspapers are subject to huge cost cutting and need to fill space easily, so perhaps the easiest way to do it is to accept bullshit stores from club PR in order to appeal to the largest fan demographic.
upthehoops 28th May 2020 at 20:07
The stuff in relation to Morelos has been particularly stunning.
Particularly when the manager is on the record as saying there had been no bids for the player, at that time.
In fact I believe he has said it on more than one occasion, last summer and in January of this year.
The media had his price going up and up, with a load of clubs being interested in him.
To be honest I think they may have been instrumental in him losing form in January. He must have believed the hype and basically didn't kick a ball from January onwards.
It's similar to the situation with the previous club. The media would not print or broadcast a bad news story, right up to the point it was too late to do anything about them. They don't do Rangers any favours, whether they are trying to or not.
Homunculus 28th May 2020 at 20:37
It's similar to the situation with the previous club. The media would not print or broadcast a bad news story, right up to the point it was too late to do anything about them. They don't do Rangers any favours, whether they are trying to or not.
===============================
We laugh at the man with the key to the Sevco crayon box, but it's obviously a skeleton key for the SMSM box…..Who can forget how rapidly the Alfie assasination attempt was sprouting legs, until a private investigator handed himself in at his local station, and halted it in its tracks. ….That wee tale was half an hour short of, "Red-haired man in green & white jersey spotted running from the scene", said a guy on twitter.
There is a lot wrong with Scotland.
Homunculus 28th May 2020 at 20:37
‘.It’s similar to the situation with the previous club. The media would not print or broadcast a bad news story, right up to the point it was too late to do anything about them. ‘
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Eating too much succulent lamb had them hooked and they lost any kind of journalistic integrity in their desire for easy pounds per column inch of ‘copy and paste’ utterances ; and their craving for privately provided ‘exclusives’ for whichever pretence of a newspaper they wrote for made liars and cheats of them.
Whereas if they had shown any kind of willingness ,or ability as journalists , to ask questions of SDM and of that arch-cheat’s means of funding the biggest ‘ineligible players ‘ scam that any football league has ever seen, then SDM might have been caught by the short and curlies early enough to amend his cheating ways, admit the footballing offence , lose a title or two to avoid expulsion, and then find it easier to reach a deal with HMRC before the tax debt reached levels which meant that even the richest Bear couldn’t contemplate taking it on if he thought of buying RFC of 1872 out of Administration.
The succulent lamb eaters certainly contributed to the death of RFC 1872.
And their current equivalents are of the same stamp in relation to TRFC, the new club.
And they’re not even getting succulent lamb dinners in SA, with the best wines from the major shareholder’s best SA wine-cellar. ( Or was that taken by SARS?)
Or are they?
nhttps://www.samh.org.uk/
Homunculus 28th May 2020 at 20:37
===================
I think we also have to ask what favours Rangers actually did for Morelos, in particular during the aftermath of the game at Celtic Park on 29th November. Clearly by the reaction of the Rangers Management, players and the media, they thought that was their Rubicon crossing. In fairness they were well deserved winners at a place they had to win if they were going to win the league, and it put them in a great position. Yet right at the end Morelos was sent off following an umpteenth case of ridiculous simulation since coming to Scotland, and then went on to make a throat slitting gesture towards Celtic fans. Rangers management of the situation was quite incredible, and what followed was accusations of sustained racism towards Morelos, an interview broadcast with the player where the subtitles were deliberately altered to demean Celtic fans, and accusations that the brakes on his car had been tampered with which were also shown to be lies. All of these falsehoods were backed by many in the Scottish media, but who was feeding it to them? The upshot was that the form of Morelos flipped completely. I just can’t help thinking a club with more humility, and a manager of more experience, would have handled things differently from what was at the time a position of strength. Perhaps if their pals in the media made it clear they were not going to be part of it in future things would change. After all, it takes two to tango!
Upthehoops
With all the covid stuff , governance of the game , title getting called , Res 12 being killed off etc etc it took your post to remind me about all the other stuff . Stuff that has once again been ignored and in Celtics case probably happy that it has been swept under the carpet . Im talking about Morelos throat slitting gesture , Kent firing imaginary bullets at fans. Sky TV doing an assasination job on Celtic PLC and fans . We have come to expect the SFA to turn a blind eye , but it is sickening that my own clubs bosses are such a cowardly spineless lot. And while Im at has Douglas Park been set a date for by the SFA to answer questions about bringing the game into disrepute ? Naw /… I didnt think so
It would seem the Ibrox club are not alone in having over inflated valuations for their players. Yesterday social media (not the tabloids yet!) were reporting on Kristoffer Ajer of Celtic having a transfer value of £25m! Now he is a good young player with potential but £25m? Really?
Hope Celtic get it
Not holding my breath though.
Having said that, it might lead you to wonder why the tabloids have not picked up on that rumour?
Hyping up his price.
jimbo29th May 2020 at 10:51
===========
The difference is supposed to be that on social media people can post what they like, while the mainstream claim they only print what a reliable source has told them, and that there is substance to it.
On the subject of Ajer I am as sure Celtic would get nowhere near £25m as I am that the tabloids wouldn't run with it any case.
Going back to Hagi, I see there is a story in today's Herald that he 'will be even better' next season. I have given up trying to work out conclusively what that means, but most likely it means he has already increased in value according to them.
Barry Anderson@BarryAnderson_
Scottish football clubs can begin training in June after a meeting with Government today. Plan is to start the new season on 1 August but not all leagues will be able to play then.
easyJambo 29th May 2020 at 17:16
That means a safety-first approach, with games initially played behind closed doors and a range of measures to protect players and staff.
“The return of crowds is something we all want to see and we will be working with clubs, Government and medical professionals to return safely to playing in front of fans as soon as we can.”
………
and a range of measures to protect players and staff.
Just how much is that going to cost clubs with no match day income, with games being played behind closed doors.
Was their not a club that were strongly apposed to playing games behind closed doors.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1266397093586972673/photo/1
…
I can see a statement coming.
upthehoops 29th May 2020 at 15:31
Going back to Hagi, I see there is a story in today’s Herald that he ‘will be even better’ next season.
…………
It is always next season with this ibrox thing, someone should award them a can kicking trophy as they are the champions of it. Last season after winning nothing again it was ok because Gerrard had put the smile back on the fans faces.
If anything down ibrox way they know how to flip a bad news story on it’s back and make it sound a good one.
With maybe no fans at the start of the season? could this be the first time the ibrox club get a lot of away fixtures for the start of the season? seam to remember the last few seasons they started with a few home games first (get that income in) happy to be corrected. Interesting to see when the fixtures come out, (but it is all computerised apparently anyway)
Cluster one – 27 May
Thanks for the acknowledgement. I’m not really that bothered if everybody scrolled passed my debut and penultimate post as I was just putting thoughts down and the act itself was cathartic.
Gracious – did you really choose the correct word there however?
It might have been more gracious to just scroll on past. Enjoy the belly button fluff!
QF
QF 29th May 2020 at 20:10
gracious definition: 1. behaving in a pleasant, polite, calm way
………………
I believe i did both. It would have been easier just to scroll past, but as you say a long time lurker and first time poster, i believe i was Gracious in my reply.
I see that Alex Rae EBT was on the wireless and referenced an article/post by a Bruce Archer (an ITK TRFC man) suggesting that the vote to end the season was not unanimous , and that two clubs were against that scenario playing out . Anybody here got info ?
paddy malarkey 29th May 2020 at 22:34
'….an article/post by a Bruce Archer (an ITK TRFC man)……Anybody here got info ?'
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Have a look at
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1286009/SPFL-season-ended-Neil-Doncaster-Celtic-Rangers-Hearts
from which I extract this :
"The SPFL ended the season on Monday with a statement claiming that Premiership clubs had reached a ‘unanimous agreement that the top flight cannot be finished’.
However the unanimous part of that statement is understood to be factually incorrect. At least two clubs were against curtailing the season and saw no reason why a decision needed to be rushed through so soon."
Well, where does that leave us?
Where else but in the position of having to choose whether the SPFL are lying, or whether the SMSM man is making uncorroborated insinuations?
We know from the experience of the past that neither the SPFL nor the SMSM rags and their (generally) embarrassingly inadequate 'sports journalists' operate on the basis of Truth!
It is fun to see the one lot being criticised by the other!
Honest to God: that I should have lived so long only to see the perverted nonsense at the heart of Scottish Football governance being supported by a perverted, distorted 'sports Press'- when in Minneapolis and Hong Kong even as I write there are real journalists being arrested or in risk thereof for factual reporting or for trying to investigate!
Headline and quotes extracted from The DR;
“SFA and SPFL chiefs concerned over getting fans back into stadiums as bosses point to European examples.
[Doncaster said], “The return of crowds is something we all want to see …to playing in front of fans as soon as we can.”
[Maxwell said], “As the governing body, we will continue to engage with government and key stakeholders to provide a similar plan for the return of the game at all levels of Scottish football.”
==========
Whilst Hampden – and the clubs – continue to ignore the fans’ demand for improved governance, they are now desperate to get us back into the stadiums – with our cash of course!
And does Maxwell now regard fans as “key stakeholders”?
I know it’s wishful thinking, but just like in 2012, the long suffering, paying punters are in a rare position to dictate change – to their liking – to the governing bodies and clubs, by simply threatening to withhold their money.
Must admit, I’m not in any rush to return to a football stadium – regardless of the virus.
The SFA’s CAS decision last week has just left me scunnered with the whole, senior game to be honest.
In my post of 23.34 I mentioned the SMSM .
I have had a wee read at
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999
And I ask: did Jane Lewis
go to our Donald ?
or did he come to her, cashing in on his fame and status?
Did she go to any other club to seek their views on Anne Budges’ proposal?
Did she attempt any kind of objective analysis of the views, and the reasons for those views, of all the other clubs?
Or was she simply handed a wee script , to be faithfully passed on, with minimal effort on her part, as ‘journalism’ at £x per word, or column inch, or whatever way hacks get paid?
She’s with the BBC, of course, and presumably follows the party line, like English and the others
QF 29th May 2020 at 20:10
“I’m not really that bothered if everybody scrolled passed (sic) …”
So just a tad bothered?
No need to be at all bothered.
218 folk were ungracious enough not to scroll past and afterwards awarded the post a Thumbsdown.
Pity QF has gone (and I’m sure he’s a man of his word and we’ll hear no more from him) as we will never find out how reasonable a chap he is.
I wonder if he lives in Eastwood?
Hi Folks
Apologies for our absence the past few days. We have been spending most of our time dealing with a less deadly – but still potent – virus as both SFM websites have been attacked on a daily basis by a Trojan Virus, exploiting some weaknesses in the PHP platform (which the site runs on).
It is (so far) not a problem to put the site back together again within minutes of being alerted to the attack. The trouble is preventing a repeat of the attack – or if either of us are asleep when the alarm goes off 🙂
So far we have been lucky regarding the timing, but if there is any unexplained downtime, please avail your yourself of this explanation in advance 🙂
My attention was drawn via another forum to a call last night on Radio Clyde, which I then listened to on the Podcast. The caller directed a question at Alex Rae about people deeming Celtic’s title this year ‘tainted’. Rae danced all over the place with his answer, but would not distance himself from the notion there should be an asterisk against it. The caller then neatly moved on to the five titles Rangers won when millions were illegally withheld in unpaid taxes, of which Rae himself was a beneficiary. The host of the show, Alison Conroy, got very agitated when the point was made. The call descended into slight farce as they tried to hurry the caller on claiming they had little time left.
My point is this. Why does a media which spends so much time focusing on and criticising illegal tax avoidance and evasion by individuals and companies, completely flip over as soon as the illegal tax avoidance/evasion Rangers were found guilty of is mentioned? What is it that they can’t discuss? There are no unproven allegations being made, and no-one is being slandered. It is a matter of historical fact that Rangers illegally withheld tens of millions in unpaid tax. That fact has been determined by the highest court in the United Kingdom and cannot be challenged. So why do the Scottish media get so agitated when this legally proven fact is raised? It is truly bizarre.
I've been thinking (I know, I know)
If I were a Celtic fan I wouldn't be too upset if people refer to 9 in a row as 8.75 in a row.
If (when) you win the title next year that will be 9.75 in a row.
Still greater than 9.
Still the record.
HS
Higgy's Shoes
It's 9 mate , next year will be 10 ?
Tony.
My tongue was firmly in my cheek as I think most people will realise.
HS
Correct Tony. There is no tarnish attached..It's not even an argument.
However, like the SFA announcing they consider the Res12 allegations are closed, after the SPFL refused to bow to Sevco's groundless demands for an inquiry, the baseless asterisk demands next to this title are sauce from the same bottle…….They SMSM have set up the two cheeks of the arse scenario quite nicely.
Sevvies have something to shout at Timmy, and both organisations will hide behind the firework display.
Truth and reality don't enter into it. A secret 5 way agreement is still in existance which guarantees that one member club is permitted to exist outside of the jurisdiction under which every other club resides. Sevco are quite literally a law unto themselves.
Clyde FC statement
https://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/6432/#.XtKs7GhKjIV
Below is a very cautious Jason Leitch,can't remember the expert on channel 4 but he raised a good point in what happens if we restart and two teams set to play and one team gets covid 19 infectionballs up in the air I would say ?
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2020/05/30/scottish-premiership-not-guaranteed-to-return-on-august-1-says-health-official/
upthehoops 30th May 2020 at 14:26
I then listened to on the Podcast.
………….
I knew as soon as the questions were being asked by the caller, a we are running out of time was coming down as fast as they could.
theredpill 30th May 2020 at 20:56
Below is a very cautious Jason Leitch,can't remember the expert on channel 4 but he raised a good point in what happens if we restart and two teams set to play and one team gets covid 19 infectionballs up in the air I would say ?
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2020/05/30/scottish-premiership-not-guaranteed-to-return-on-august-1-says-health-official/
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17 positive tests in the EFL. How many positives will it take to cancel games?
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/11997750/efl-confirms-17-positive-coronavirus-tests-after-latest-round-of-testing
Easyjambo, I've been wondering all along about that scenario. Even if they manage to get the football re-started, behind closed doors, how long will it take before it all goes belly up. All it takes is one player to be tested positive within a few days for quarantines to kick in for 50 or 60 people involved in one match! If that were to happen once a week?
easyJambo 30th May 2020 at 21
17 positive tests in the EFL. How many positives will it take to cancel games?
=================
There are so many unknowns, and what 'expert' should we believe? I didn't know so many Professors existed until this all happened!
UTH @ 00:25
"There are so many unknowns, and what 'expert' should we believe?"
It is where so many people in the country are making the mistake. The "experts" at Covid pressers are the ones that back up what the politicians want to happen. Sure, the politicians take on board scientific advice but they then balance it with the political needs. The main need is that the public do not get agitated. Look to the past couple of days in the US where the rioting is happening. The trigger was the killing by the police but it is well recognised that much of the rioting is the venting of the public regarding the destruction of their finances and the loss of millions of jobs. It is what every politician dreads, not because of the violence or the damage but because they will be remembered for this when election time comes round.
It is the answer to the big "why" at the start of this. Why did politicians the world over decide that they preferred to bankrupt their countries by handing out billions to Joe Public than follow the herd immunity policy?
The truth is that the experts we choose to believe should be selected based on the scientific facts if we are concerned with our own safety and less so the society in which we live. The political pronouncements should only ever be the starting point.
For Covid 19 the main facts are the R value(and what it really means) and the real "social distance".
The R value has a lot of emphasis placed on it just now but it really does not tell us anything about the disease. It actually tells only how many people are in social contact with each other because it states the average number of people that one person with the virus will pass it on to. At the height of the pandemic it was sitting at around 3. That makes it more than 3 times more infectious than flu which sits at just under one under our normal circumstances. The covid19 R value has been reduced to just below 1 now but that does not mean that its potency has reduced but just that less people are in contact with the person who is infected. What they do not tell you is what the current value of the flu R value. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that it stands somewhere below 0.3.
Social distancing too is a political decision. Yesterday's sportsound had people calling for it to be reduced from two metres to just one as seen in other countries such as Sweden. Once again the science says something different. It all depends on your desired outcome. For the politicians to adhere to a policy that holds an individual's safety as opposed to the best financial and social outcome would be a huge headache for them.
The scientific research shows that different circumstances give different values. The 2 metres(or 1 in other countries) is probably an average for enclosed space and open space contact. What is more important is that is for normal breathing conditions in still air. The research shows with normal breathing a single virus will not reach as far as two metres under still air conditions. But they also take their research further in that the measure for other conditions . If someone coughs then a virus can travel about three metres and for a sneeze it is about four metres. Of course that is for still air but a head wind or tail wind will reduce and increase that.
So the decisions about to be made by our football authorities will reflect what? Their desire to keep players and spectators safe or to accept a level of risk to satisfy the requirements of the football business to make money?
What's the old saying?
It's only a game.
Sorry, I'm on a roll this morning.
Again on Sportsound yesterday.
Ann Budge's announcement that philanthropists were prepared to inject millions of pounds to help Scottish football resulted in the expected anti-Doncaster reaction. Especially as Ms Budge's suggestion that she was asked to put that in writing and produce a report. Now I am very much of the belief that Doncaster has a lot to answer for over the last decade and that he should be hounded out of our game but it should be done for the right reason.
For anyone to accept that amount of money into any sport then they MUST take many precautions. Not just for the sport but for themselves. To take a verbal communication on this and then run with it leaves no paper trail with which to defend yourself should the source of the donation prove to be illegal. Also, at this time where personal contact is to be kept at a minimum would it not be better that Budge, who already has contact with these "philanthropists", takes the lead on this. This latter point is trivial I know but a complete picture of the personal risks should still include it.
We, in this country, tend to believe that there is no "dirty" money or organised crime involvement in our game, and we may be right, but the odds say otherwise. We have already seen Romanov here and we subsequently have learned, as recently as the last two months, of his criminal background. Add to that the financial condition of our game. In there we see many of the signs that make a business appealing for use by money launderers.
If any administrator, at club or association level, does their work without paying heed to that then we do have a serious weakness in our sport.
This money, if kosher, should be grabbed with both hands and we all should fall at these benefactors' feet in gratitude but not until all the due diligence is performed.
Lastly, I promise.
The benefactors, although unnamed, are reputable businessmen we are assured.
In our Scotland is do the majority consider David Murray as such?
Mickey Edwards 31st May 2020 at 10:25
Lastly, I promise.
The benefactors, although unnamed, are reputable businessmen we are assured.
===========================
Assuming that the benefactors are the same ones who have put money into Hearts, there was a string attached. Apparently they requested that the dress code for the hospitality suites were relaxed, as they didn't like wearing ties.
I don't honestly know if this offer will actually come to anything. It was discussed from early last week on a Hearts message board when it was described as an offer to help pay for Covid testing requirements. Yesterday it was described as a "no strings" offer to help lower league clubs. By definition, that excludes the Premiership, but if the SPFL is not looking to restart the lower leagues then why would they put cash in.
I can see ND looking to take the cash only on a totally "no strings" basis, i.e. he would want it to go into the bigger pot for distribution to all 42 clubs. If that is the case, then the cash may not be forthcoming.
Makes sense EJ.
I have no issue with the benefactors being reputable. I'm just wary about who in this country are regarded as reputable. With or without having wealth off the radar.
My other concern is that, if there are millions available from benefactors, why the hell are they giving it to football when so many other areas are screaming out for help.
As I said earlier, it's only a game.
CFC seldom make a statement just to hear the sound of their own voice. Looks like they are keen to know who is still standing.
http://www.celticfc.net/news/18152
Mickey Edwards 31st May 2020 at 12:30
Mickey, Buy a wee club with its membershippy bits, get a bargain bigger club's stadium from administrators. Change your name if you want…….. Boab's yir auntie.
From todays rags:
"£300k of watches stolen off footie ace.
It seems Riyad Mahrez of Man City has had 3 watches costing
£300k stolen from his house whilst there was no one at home.
One of these watches cost £230,000.
The cheapest, worth more than a nurse's yearly salary.
I know burglary is wrong.
I also appreciate people should be allowed to buy whatever they want
with their own money (as long as it's legal).
But sometimes its hard to sympathise.
HS
Corrupt official 31st May 2020 at 13:16
CFC seldom make a statement just to hear the sound of their own voice. Looks like they are keen to know who is still standing.
http://www.celticfc.net/news/18152
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The cynic in me says that Celtic is desperate for an early return to competitive action in order to be able to take up a place in the CL, whenever UEFA announce what they are planning for season 2020/21 competitions.
easyJambo 31st May 2020 at 14:32
The cynic in me says that Celtic is desperate for an early return to competitive action in order to be able to take up a place in the CL, whenever UEFA announce what they are planning for season 2020/21 competitions.
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It seemed a bit of an odd release, and had the cynic in me going too EJ. I'm sure every club is keen to get up and running, but I don't get why the fixture list has any importance. The game will start when it is permitted to, regardless of who plays who. Looking for a hasty fixture list is running before walking, and I think the closest to a fixture list anyone can get is an undated, game 1= X v Y, game 2 =Y v Z etc.
Personally I think we should hold off until it is safely possible to get bums on seats. Some clubs might get a return from live streams, but others not so much. If ST's get you a free-view, (as has been mooted), I doubt even the larger clubs will get much pay per view revenue, although a lot of ST holders will have to get the sausage rolls in.
Albeit there may be reduced stewarding costs for smaller clubs, how can they be expected to absorb full matchday costs, i.e. wages, travel, ground-care, etc, but also the additional £4K per match testing process, and sanitation expenses, with not a pie sold.? How will player isolation be guaranteed in the interim tween test and actual match?
Then there is the possibility of a spike throwing the whole shooting match in the air.
Better to start a couple of weeks late, than a day early methinks. The danger of throwing caution to the wind is too great.
Another thought just crossed my mind (not a long journey I admit)
This point may have been mentioned before so apologies… but I don't remember it coming up.
If the Sky contract stipulates that there must be 4 Celtic v rangers* games per season
what would happen in the future if one of the 2 (Not liable to happen to Celtic, I know)
comes in 7th before the split?
i suspect some sort of jiggery-pokery would come into play.
HS
I gave up listening to BBC Sportsound yesterday. Not everyone will agree, but I think many will, that the Sportsound crew are a gullible bunch!
Once again they have allowed Ann Budge the opportunity to attempt to publicly embarrass/shame Scottish football administrators by her comments about her philanthropic acquaintances.
Just like Scott Gardiner she gives information to the Sportsound team that leads to them having another opportunity to blast Neil Doncaster and the cynic in me asks how come these statements always seem to come when things are not going Hearts way?
If she felt that ND was ignoring her why not directly share with other clubs after all they are the SPFL? Apparently it was on Hearts websites earlier in the week but that’s not the best way to share the information.
The Sportsound conspiracy theorists of course then had the Aberdeen manager saying he had heard about the Budge offer adding to their condemnation of ND.
They must have been so disappointed with the Dundee United interview with a carefully worded response making it clear that they knew nothing about this possible source of funding.
Have the Sportsound crew not learned that Ann Budge interviews more often than not have a hidden agenda and give an inaccurate representation of events? Every time they are taken in hook, line and sinker!
ND did make a statement in light of what was said but if it was read out on Sportsound I was no longer listening so have no idea how they treated it.
My sympathy for Hearts position comes and goes. I have to say Ann Budge approach tends to make it go!
Sorry EJ but I forgot to mention what I was actually cynical about. Given the pure mentalness of Scottish fitba it may be that whispers are reaching Celtic Park, that some clubs might prefer to stay mothballed until bums on seats are possible…..Hence Celtic's rush to get fixtures confirmed. (as you say to get up to speed)
Such was the palaver of shutting the game down, I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar palaver as to re-starting and under what conditions. It just seemed to me that Celtic have retaliated first.
Another possible reason for Celtic’s keenness to see the fixture list for the new season could be to do with ticket pricing: Celtic’s season ticket (ST) renewal prices have been published (with renewal deadline date having already been nudged back a couple of times, to 30 June). However, my guess is that a big number of ST-holders (not just at Celtic) may be delaying their decision to renew until they have a clearer idea of what they’re being asked to pay for.
How can there possibly be a fixture list whilst there is still discussion of restructuring, which would presumably mean the top division changing size.
I was just reading that Celtic have ordered two all singing all dancing test machines from South Korea, offering a result within 20 minutes. Also that the SFA have ordered two and Ross County one. At £35K a pop they're not cheap.
Corrupt official 31st May 2020 at 16:06
Dunderheid 31st May 2020 at 16:28
Homunculus 31st May 2020 at 16:48
=================================
In the normal round of announcements, the League fixtures don’t come out until the middle of June at the earliest. Last year it was 21 June.
https://spfl.co.uk/news/201920-fixtures-released-tomorrow
It is not unreasonable to suggest that Celtic has other motives than simply to get the league underway.
I stick to my view that readiness for European games is their number one priority at the moment. In a normal season, training would probably resume in a week or so’s time, with a series of low key friendlies to get rid of the rustiness, then start their CL qualifying campaign in early July (the original schedule would have seen Celtic’s first qualifying game on 7/8 July).
I can’t see any scope for friendlies before the planned 1 August start date, so it will be straight into competitive action in both the League and the CL qualifying (if there is any).
UEFA had penciled in the month of August to complete last season’s tournaments. I guess that a qualifying tournament could run in parallel with that, but you could only play two rounds, rather than the normal four if you stuck to midweek fixtures.