The “Lawwell Letter” is trending everywhere this week. To elucidate, it is email sent to (among others) Peter Lawwell and Eric Riley of Celtic on 26 July 2012 by SPL CEO Neil Doncaster.
The email came with an attached copy of the Five Way Agreement (hereafter “5WA”, the deal between Sevco, Rangers, the SFA, the SPL and the SFL). Now that it has been made public, it seems safe to speak openly about what it all means for us as folk who believe in sporting integrity.
I would preface my comments with a caveat though. On the face of it, the Celtic Chief Executive appears to have misled the gathering at the recent Celtic AGM. He was asked by a shareholder if Celtic were involved in the Five Way Agreement. Lawwell replied, “No”, and gave same “No” response to the follow up question, “have you seen it?”
Given that a copy of that email was in the possession of a few folk before that AGM, I have to admit to being surprised by that answer – although even more surprised at the apparent lack of due diligence implied by the lack of knowledge of its content.
We have attempted to contact Mr Lawwell to ask him if he would like to comment on the apparent discrepancy between the evidence and his answer (and I am sure we are not the only ones to have done so). To date, we have received no response. Given the complete lack of acknowledgement of the existence of this anomaly in the MSM, we should perhaps assume that none will be forthcoming.
Perhaps there is an explanation (yes I know), but Celtic should know, like Rangers old and new have come to realise, that silence on these matters breeds deep suspicion and distrust.
Assuming for the minute that Occam’s Razor applies here, there may be an uncomfortable truth emerging for Celtic fans – that Rangers (old and new) do not have a monopoly on dishonesty. There is also an uncomfortable truth that should emerge for Rangers fans too – that as we have said all along, this has never been about just Rangers, but about the governance of the game.
If the Celtic CEO did lie to the AGM a few weeks ago what are the consequences? He broke no laws as far as I can see. One insider I spoke to said simply this,
“So he lied. So what? What happens now? It’s irrelevant”
That is of course absolutely true. As long as controlling shareholders are happy that Resolution 12 is buried, and that no deep inquiry into governance is held into the workings of the game in Scotland, the lie is nonpunishable, though it would be a mistake to believe that accountability is confined only to the corporate rules governing Boards and shareholders; the corporate veil of “I was only following company policy” can be readily challenged in the court of public opinion, which has no statute of limitations.
What all this demonstrates of course is that Celtic have been saying one thing to their fans and shareholders, nodding agreement in private meetings about how appalling Rangers behaviour was, tut-tutting over how amateurish the authorities were, and wringing their hands in frustration at what a sham the LNS inquiry turned out to be.
At the same time, they have done nothing, allowed small shareholders to spend not inconsiderable suns progressing the matter, and quietly hoped that the “appetite” for justice would diminish so they could get back to whatever it is they and the rest do when subject to little or no scrutiny.
Whilst ten in a row is on the table of course, they can get away with it. To Celtic fans right now, understandably, nothing else matters. But what if TIAR is derailed? Not a stretch to imagine that the Parkhead kitchen could get uncontrollably hot in that circumstance. And when the TIAR squirrel finally ends its scurry, in either success or failure, where will the fans attention be diverted?
Perhaps the arrogance that permits making (allegedly) false statements to a general meeting, and (allegedly) misleading shareholders over Res 12 is borne of the knowledge that the parachutes are ready to be deployed when either of the above scenarios come to pass? If TIAR is achieved or goes south, are they already prepared for an emergency exit?
Celtic have two major shareholders whose combined holding is over 50% of the club’s shares. Dermot Desmond and Nick Train. Desmond is now in his eighth decade and Train is reportedly having some business difficulties. Both may well be moved to get out anyway, but fan unrest would make their decision a whole lot easier.
And Lawwell himself is – if you believe the MSM – on the wanted list of nearly as many top clubs as Alfredo Morelos.
The foregoing of course is extremely “Old Firm” centric, and as the two biggest clubs in the country they certainly have the biggest impact on the game, culturally, socially and financially. However there is no get-out clause here for others.
We KNOW there is evidence of fraud surrounding the licencing issue in 2012. We KNOW there is evidence of a cover up over that, and the EBT-related registration issues for Old Rangers. We KNOW that the Five Way Agreement was signed by football authorities in the knowledge that it would rob their own rules of judicial authority with regard to compliance by RFC prior to 2012.
We also know that NOT ONE club has taken a meaningful stand against any of it.
Clubs are saying one thing to supporters and doing their best to derail those supporters’ efforts on the other. We can also infer (not unreasonably) that the folk who run the clubs think that we as fans have no right to interfere in how they run their operations.
As I said earlier, Celtic can do what they like whilst TIAR is live, but afterwards, however it ends, the fans and shareholders involved in Res 12 will still be asking questions. Celtic in particular know how fatal it can be to alienate their own fan base – a fan base that has flexed its muscles with devastating effect for the boardroom in the past. And it is the wrath of the fans of all clubs that will eventually see the charlatans get their just desserts.
Our job as fans is to continue to hold those who care little for the honour and beauty of football to account, to continue to press them on their refusal to deal with arguably the biggest sporting scandal in Scottish history.
The bottom line (which is of course what the folk in boardrooms care about) is this. They need us far more than we need them. As fans of different clubs, the sensibility of those of us at SFM recognises that the real battle, the real war, is not between rival fans or rival clubs, but between the arrogant, self-entitled clique who run our game; who lie for fun, who cheat and belittle the sport; and the good folk who make it possible for the game to prosper.
Resolution 12 is not just about Rangers – nor is it just about Celtic. It deserves to be embraced by every true football fan in the country. The Res 12 franchise needs to widened
Sooner or later the fans will demonstrate their unhappiness with the money men. They did it in 2012, and they will inevitably do so again.
Big Pink
good post,i said that the other day,lose the holy grail(10inarow)and the gloves will be off,win the 10 and i think lawell and desmond will go anyway
Excellent and timely post, Big Pink.
How on earth Lawwell could stand up at the Celtic AGM and do his Sergeant Schults routine (“I know nothing”) beats me. In the wake of the RFC collapse Lawwell and Doncaster travelled the length of the country together trying to negotiate new sponsorship deals for the SPL. I would find it incredible that they did not discuss in detail the terms and implications of the 5WA in their many hours spent together on planes and in hotels. The same goes for Lawwell’s close contact with Petrie and Regan over this critical period.
As a Celtic shareholder I wrote individual letters to each of the directors of Celtic plc re: Resolution 12. I sent them all by recorded delivery. I never received an acknowledgement from the club far less any sort of reply. In 2012 Celtic FC hosted a group of Thai schoolchildren (‘The Thai Tims’) at Parkhead. I wrote a note of appreciation to the directors for their kind gesture. Lo and behold, I received a thank you letter by return of post, signed by Mr Lawwell personally. How this man can devote his time to such trivial correspondence yet completely ignore the deep concerns of the shareholders shows the Board’s utter contempt for the shareholders and fans. Expect further prevarication in the matter of Celtic’s knowledge of the 5WA.
“Now that it [the 5-Way Agreement] has been made public, it seems safe to speak openly about what it all means for us as folk who believe in sporting integrity.”…
Not only ‘safe to speak openly’ but really obliged to speak out.
No journalist or editor of any journal was present at and a signatory to that ridiculous and shameful agreement. It now behoves every editor to instruct his or her hacks to behave like serious journalists and start asking the really awkward questions that need to be asked.
And there is any number of questions to be asked, not least ‘why the secrecy’ if there was nothing underhand or deceitful, (always allowing for a degree of commercial confidentiality where appropriate).
Let’s now hear them probing into that, AND into the Res12 issue, and into the Bryson intervention.
Let them get their teeth into a disgustingly dirty mess, roust out the destroyers of trust in our game who allowed their rotten hearts to be so panicked as to make them ready to forswear themselves.
This , as the blog says, is not about TRFC directly except in so far as they lie about their ‘history’ stretching back more than 7 years but about the absurd measures taken by the Governance bodies to avoid punishing the most sports cheating club in the history of Scottish football in the fully appropriate way, and to create the myth that going into liquidation did not, uniquely for RFC of 1872, mean the death of that club!
Hi, can't get in to site on laptop, but can on phone, its saying this site can't provide a secure connection?
Tony
Clear your browser cache.
We had to move the site after it was subject to more nonsense from hackers. Actually had moved it to a co-hosted platform in a trial to see if we could save some cash. Co-hostees not best pleased with things after the intrusion 🙂
Consequently, there are some DNS and SSL issues that are caused by the move. Clearing browser cash should work.
Also going to a command prompt in windows and typing
ipconfig /flushdns
may also help. Could also use a different browser. Otherwise a few hours will se it all cleared up
Billy Boyce 28th January 2020 at 21:37
Excellent and timely post, Big Pink.
How on earth Lawwell could stand up at the Celtic AGM and do his Sergeant Schults routine (“I know nothing”) beats me. In the wake of the RFC collapse Lawwell and Doncaster travelled the length of the country together trying to negotiate new sponsorship deals for the SPL. I would find it incredible that they did not discuss in detail the terms and implications of the 5WA in their many hours spent together on planes and in hotels. The same goes for Lawwell’s close contact with Petrie and Regan over this critical period.
As a Celtic shareholder I wrote individual letters to each of the directors of Celtic plc re: Resolution 12. I sent them all by recorded delivery. I never received an acknowledgement from the club far less any sort of reply. In 2012 Celtic FC hosted a group of Thai schoolchildren (‘The Thai Tims’) at Parkhead. I wrote a note of appreciation to the directors for their kind gesture. Lo and behold, I received a thank you letter by return of post, signed by Mr Lawwell personally. How this man can devote his time to such trivial correspondence yet completely ignore the deep concerns of the shareholders shows the Board’s utter contempt for the shareholders and fans.
Expect further prevarication in the matter of Celtic’s knowledge of the 5WA.
================
Resistance is futile, we know what they did that summer and what they didn't do two years later in respect of the LNS Commission.
Good one BP, and it probably reflects the uneasiness felt amongst Bampots since the – alleged – revelations about Lawwell.
I can’t speak for other clubs, but my own club is supposed to be ‘more than a club’.
However, if that belief is simply suspended, and the club regards itself as just another club / business…
then I suppose it doesn’t really matter if a CEO lies to minority shareholders – and the majority owners can just ignore the fans’ feedback.
And again, IF the allegations are true… then the corrupt SFA and SPFL are NEVER going to evolve into trustworthy and professionally run organisations.
Not good.
John Clark 28th January 2020 at 19:38
easyJambo @ 17.39
———-'
Yes and I lost a wee comment on your post.(still can't access via pc,so am reduced to trying to use my phone)
Surely HSL must have considered the possibility of RG doing exactly that??
I ask that because not being well versed in these matters I was surprised to learn that a shareholder in a private company cannot sell his shares unless the board agrees
But surely HSL would have had professional expert advice. They had no promises (I think) that the club would move to fan ownership , but they must have planned on getting a blocking power?
Curious.
==============================
Sir Tom Farmer's plan was for fans (including HSL) to own 51% of the shares in the club. The HSL scheme used fans' monthly pledges to raise the cash that was handed over to the club and every couple of months HSL would receive new shares in return.
It is clear that HSL didn't have a legally binding agreement with STF to ensure that they could achieve their goals, 20% to get a representative on the Board, 25% for a "blocking" stake etc. They were never going to be able to obtain a majority shareholding themselves as other parties held a few percent of the club shares.
In my opinion, STF (and Rod Petrie) shafted the fans, not just by selling their own shares, but allowing Ron Gordon to buy the shares earmarked for HSL, thus freezing out HSL from further purchases.
There is a contrast with what has happened at Hearts. The FOH agreement with Ann Budge looks (to my untrained eye) to be fairly watertight and prevents Ann Budge from selling out her shareholding to a third party, without FOH's agreement. That hasn't been tested to date, although I know that she has had at least one approach from a prospective buyer (that one may have come from Ron Gordon before he bought Hibs). Anyway, Ann Budge knocked back the approach on the basis of the binding(?) agreement with FOH.
If you look at paragraph 4 of the Hibs AoA dated 16 January 2015 then you will see that the Board has the power to block any share transfer. Out out curiosity, I checked the RIFC AoA and they have similar powers.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005323/filing-history?page=3
Sooner or later the fans will demonstrate their unhappiness with the money men. They did it in 2012, and they will inevitably do so again.
……………..
Sooner the Better i say.
Thanks Big Pink.
It is very unlikely that the current email leak was anything other than a genuine communication between Doncaster and a sizeable working group united for varying reasons some being alignment some being future plans but all underwritten by money.
The fact they used Peter's private address for the stuff he didn't want his PA to see is an extra insight.
We had three broad groups
1 The leading inner sanctum of chairmen who had and still have control of the strategy of the SPFL and the way the SFA see the world.
2 The administrators whose jobs well paid packages bonuses and future prospects depended on Scottish football continuing with two big Glasgow clubs to keep the tv deal and various other packages in place.
3 The other Premier League clubs, mostly minnows like Inverness CT whose Chairman was simply told the working team and the strategy of continuation via the 5 way agreements was best for all and to vote it through.
What helped the tabled plan get full support around the Premier league directors table was the plan of sharing out of the cash due from the league to the dying Rangers.
This proved a bonus to Doncaster and his wee cabal because it provided an almost immediate and unexpected financial bonus to those who might have objected, for whatever reason, to sign off the and support the continuity of oldco/newco in the top league.
Turnbull's subsequent wee revolution put paid to the top league continuation and the SPL2 plans but a form of continuity was then eventually finagled – just not quite in time for the Brechin match.
But pretty soon after.
If all this were a stick of rock it would have several names right through the core from end to end.
Peter Lawwell's name would be one of them.
I can see the conflict between what he and Desmond saw and see their vision of Celtic and how that clashes directly with what Auldheid & Co think.
Peter thinks he knows that sooner or later all the RES 12 stuff will be forgotten as the fans move on.
To him it was and is all about money.
Finloch 29th January 2020 at 08:31
'..To him it was and is all about money.'
++++++++++++++++
It is not too much a leap of imagination , Finloch, to wonder to what extent the SFA might actually have helped, by the creation of the myth that RFC of 1872 did not really die, in the task of persuading the FCA that shares in the new RIFC plc were shares in in a company that owned the original RFC of 1872, and not in new club that hadn't kicked a ball in competition?
The success of the IPO depended on investors believing that it was 'continuity most successful club in the world'
SevcoScotland/TRFC most certainly were not that. As every lying sod knew at the time, the most successful club in the world had gone into liquidation and had ceased to exist.
In my view, there are very serious questions to be asked if the SFA was party to plans to mislead investors, as well perhaps, of being guilty of lying to UEFA and thereby cheating one club out of UEFA monies that were its due.
What an atmosphere of suspicion and mistrust now exists, and with questions like those needing answered, it's no wonder that those under suspicion have to hang together in maintaining the fictions for fear that if truth were to be known, they'd hang separately!
According to Phil, Sevco back in court for Judgement 10:30 today.
Will the bow break.
Two very simple questions that have continued throughout.
1/ What would Rangers* and Rangers (note no asterisk this time) fans have done if the SFA/SPFL had played it by the book? Left? No chance.
2/ When TIAR does inevitably come unstuck (whether before T or afterwards) one expects to hear Lawell plead something along the lines of "there was no other way" or "what else could we do?" Does he expect any agreement let alone sympathy, from Celtic fans and from the rest of us diddies?
And that is why the latter two questions are interlinked. There was no other way? No, you made damn sure of that!
Ps. Done it for Benji.
Sorry JC @ 09.18 I dont buy that.
Were investors genuinely bothered about the continuity thing? One can only assume that the only body, the ONLY body that told them it was necessary were the individuals standing in the dock in front of them. Like a veteran house burglar claiming leniency was necessary as he had a job planned for a week on Friday.
Anyone with a financial hat on knew and knows damn fine what liquidation is and what it meant. The current investors are just as aware. What they needed was a stadium, facilities and licence all of which they had and a fan base which, no disrespect to the rest of us, any sort of challenge/supposed re-emergence to the top would generate. I genuinely don't believe that the continuity myth was necessary. Certainly not to the extent of isolating the rest of the Clubs fans which they inevitably have. If they think that's going away they can think again. And that now applies as much to Lawell as it does to King.
https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/
judgement should be shown here
Scottish football is corrupt and that is a fact. RFC (IL) cheated Scottish Football and European Football for at least 13 years that we know of. EBTs were declared as earnings by SC in 2017, this meant that the club had fielded in the region of 55 players illegally as these earnings were not declared to our SFA. This meant no punishment when normally one illegal player fielded means 3 0 loss. This club played in Scotland, Europe and players played for their country in European Championships and World Cups, all illegally. LNS sham went unchallenged and them being the same club goes unchallenged by SFA, smsm and our football clubs. The 5 way agreement is the pinnacle of this level of cheating and corruption. Every one involved should be made to answer including and imo especially Celtic. We always rightly condemn glib so Lawwell has to be honest no matter what the outcome. Since 2011 our game has lost all integrity and shame on all involved. This new club is killing our game and being allowed to. The fear from our smsm and SFA to state that Ibox club is a new club is one of the main reasons we are where we are. Fact. This new club is in debt every year and needs 10 million to see season out and nothing gets mentioned in smsm and SFA takes no action. I want this new club to win nothing as like old club they are cheating financially. With a bit of luck Mr Ashley might put wheels in motion to punish this new entity.
Smugas 29th January 2020 at 12:07
Sorry JC @ 09.18 I dont buy that.
Were investors genuinely bothered about the continuity thing? One can only assume that the only body, the ONLY body that told them it was necessary were the individuals standing in the dock in front of them. Like a veteran house burglar claiming leniency was necessary as he had a job planned for a week on Friday.
Anyone with a financial hat on knew and knows damn fine what liquidation is and what it meant. The current investors are just as aware. What they needed was a stadium, facilities and licence all of which they had and a fan base which, no disrespect to the rest of us, any sort of challenge/supposed re-emergence to the top would generate. I genuinely don't believe that the continuity myth was necessary. Certainly not to the extent of isolating the rest of the Clubs fans which they inevitably have. If they think that's going away they can think again. And that now applies as much to Lawell as it does to King.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree anyone with a financial hat on would have undertaken proper due diligence before investing and would have had the ability to recognise what they were investing in. However, not everyone investing was wearing that hat and that is the moral and compliance issue JC is raising here.
I too believe the continuity myth was unecessary. Rangers fans aren't the overly crtical type and just needed a "Rangers" to follow. There has been a lot of corruption and artifice involved in promoting an unecessary myth and in the process shames those concerned at the SFA and all other clubs.
The silence of other clubs and fans makes them complicit. As a great man once said:
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. "
One thing this whole shitshow has confirmed though is the suspicions of the diddy clubs that the corrupting of the game was led by the Old Firm with their close working relationship. This led to carve ups (prize money, gate money, voting rights etc) and their ultimate aim to satisfy their greed by leaving for the EPL. Cue a storm of thumbs down!
Smugas 29th January 2020 at 12:07 Sorry JC @ 09.18 I dont buy that. Were investors genuinely bothered about the continuity thing? One can only assume that the only body, the ONLY body that told them it was necessary were the individuals standing in the dock in front of them. Like a veteran house burglar claiming leniency was necessary as he had a job planned for a week on Friday. Anyone with a financial hat on knew and knows damn fine what liquidation is and what it meant. The current investors are just as aware. What they needed was a stadium, facilities and licence all of which they had and a fan base which, no disrespect to the rest of us, any sort of challenge/supposed re-emergence to the top would generate. I genuinely don't believe that the continuity myth was necessary. Certainly not to the extent of isolating the rest of the Clubs fans which they inevitably have. If they think that's going away they can think again. And that now applies as much to Lawell as it does to King.
_______________________
Perhaps not, Smugas, but Green didn't seem to know it. If for no other reason he had to convince the existing players they were still with the club they'd signed for and not some new club with limited prospects. The fact that some of them walked away because it being a new club meant they could, but some didn't, shows how necessary convincing some people of the club's continuity was. I also think the depression and embarrassment of supporting a club that was correctly acknowledged as not Rangers would have reduced the Ibrox crowd enough to stymie it's progress, or, at least, create the fear of it in Green's mind.
I think Green had enough assurances from the game's governors, and the (correct) belief that the media would play ball, that Sevco would be universally accepted (bar a few dissenters) to go ahead with the purchase of Rangers' assets but may not have if he had to push a new club to make his fortune. He could not have even been sure that a 'new club' would have got a place in the SFL, let alone, what he believed inevitable at the time, a place in the SPL.
A new club was never going to get into the SPL, and it didn't because not everyone was prepared to roll over, but before then it was very important to Green to believe that he could get away with the myth, and it was, I suspect, so important that if he didn't believe he could get away with it, he'd have walked away to look for another patsy to scam.
Excellent blog post, BP, that sadly highlights just how corrupt Scottish football was, and still is, over and above Rangers on their own. The 'Old Firm' was more than a mere construct of the SMSM to make the two biggest clubs in Scotland appear even bigger and more important than they already were, it was a cabal designed to further the financial growth of two clubs, quite possibly at the expense of all others, aided and abetted by the SFA and League of the day. The existence of the 'Old Firm' probably kicked 'sporting integrity' into the long grass many decades ago, especially once it got to the stage of both clubs seeing so much value in it they had the name registered as copyright.
Not from me Bogs, not from me!
And thats the morality line that Im referring to also. Did/does Lawell genuinely believe that TIAR or whatever other target they set themselves 2012 and since would in itself provide some kind of miraculous deliverance from the rapidly deteriorating circumstances in which it is achieved*?
Sorry, there's not a million miles between that means to an end thinking and the win at all costs EBT mentality that brought us all together in the first place.
* With apologies to the green side of the argument – Im neither assuming you are already champions on merit, nor tipping you for said position since nothing will see it evaporate quicker !
The myth that they were the same club was paramount. If it was declared as new club with absolutely no history this would have had a devastating efffect on Ibrox fans and would definitely have had repercussions on Scottish Football.. Just look back at the time when stripping titles was mentioned, uproar. This new club myth has always been the main issue. If this was stated back in 2012 and maintained by SFA football would have benefited. To every fan their club’s history is everything. Thus fear is the key concerning our SFA and smsm. In the words of Mr Bowie they were hero’s just for one day.
valentinesclown 29th January 2020 at 12:48
Scottish football is corrupt and that is a fact.
oooooooooooooo
I'm with you for all of that post, but with Smugas on the need for continuity. 50,000+ fans looking for a Rangers to watch at Ibrox every second week were not going to disappear because the team in blue was a new club. Marketing and the SMSM would have seen to that anyway.
The most generous interpretation I can put on events is that the imminent loss of TV revenues and sponsorship due to the liquidation of RFC as was caused genuine panic and a dive for the 5WA, and to hell with the integrity of the game of professional football in Scotland. As soon as clubs voted to refuse entry to the SPFL and admitted them to Div. 4 however the 5WA became redundant for that purpose, and that was the moment to rip it up and abandon any continuation lie. The terms of the 5WA as applied to Sevco had not been fulfilled by the SPFL, and the other half, the payments of RFC's football debts were never Sevco's to pay anyway.
The game could have been clean, with no greater financial loss to clubs than was occurring anyway.
I would like to think that this is now apparent to the game's administrators, but iirc the response has been to reform the rules to allow for a form of mythical franchises to facilitate the same strategy in future. Until all the signatories to the 5WA and others like Petrie go, there is little hope I'm afraid.
Laughing Tim 29th January 2020 at 11:55
According to Phil, Sevco back in court for Judgement 10:30 today.
Will the bow break.
=============================
I don't think this is a significant judgement, as I believe Justice Persey was only asked to reduce/relieve the injunction on activities by TRFC and Elite that had been imposed during the summer, TRFC and Elite had claimed that it was affecting their ability to carry out their business.
I have seen tweets claiming that Justice Persey has agreed, at least in part, to this request.
The request had come at the previous "directions" hearing, which was only to map out the way forward for SDI's claims against TRFC and Elite, and TRFC's counter claim aginst SDI.
I'd expect the case to run for several months more, although I'm sure that all parties would want it resolved before any new strip is launched for next season.
Bogs Dollox 29th January 2020 at 13:22
One thing this whole shitshow has confirmed though the suspicions of the diddy clubs that the corrupting of the game was led by the Old Firm with their close working relationship. This led to carve ups (prize money, gate money, voting rights etc) and their ultimate aim to satisfy their greed by leaving for the EPL. Cue a storm of thumbs down!
———————–
BD – Might I suggest that it has confirmed the suspicions held by fans of the diddy clubs, rather than the boards of said clubs most of whom I firmly believe have no issues with the re-emergence of the OF, ergo the Status Quo.
This appears to be the request that was made at the last hearing, i.e. to have some funds released by Elite to TRFC.
smallchange29th January 2020 at 15:22
BD – Might I suggest that it has confirmed the suspicions held by fans of the diddy clubs, rather than the boards of said clubs most of whom I firmly believe have no issues with the re-emergence of the OF, ergo the Status Quo.
=======================
Suggestion accepted.
……. and this is today’s judgement that allows TRFC to receive the funds held by Elite, (but not have the effect of the injunction reduced).
https://www.docdroid.net/c7dFwz1/sdir-v-rangers-judgment-on-scope-of-injunction-final.doc
(12). It follows from the above that Rangers will not be in breach of the Injunction should it seek (whether by court action or otherwise) to recover sums said to be due to it under the Elite/Hummel Agreement. It is, therefore, unnecessary for me to consider the parties’ interesting arguments as to whether the Injunction should be varied.
(13). The parties should now agree a form of order which gives effect to this judgment/ruling.
‘Smugas 29th January 2020 at 12:07
…What they needed was a stadium, facilities and licence all of which they had and a fan base which, no disrespect to the rest of us, any sort of challenge/supposed re-emergence to the top would generate…’
#########################
What Charles Green didn’t have was membership of a recognised football association & a league to play in. That was the overarching issue for SevcoScotland. Without professional football at Ibrox, Green had bought an expensive piece of lawn surrounded by 50k seats.
The craven acceptance by the majority of board members of the SFA, SPL & SFL that there had to be a form of Rangers in the professional game was (and is) the issue. Green did what his kind do: he hyped his product, he gulled some people important to his scheme. He schmoozed those he had to; others would have followed him blindly (and probably did). He was an influencer before the term was in common usage.
The people responsible for managing governance (and, by default, keeping Green’s version of hucksterism away from Scottish football) failed in their duty: they failed to recognise that Dr. Green’s Scottish Football Elixir, Which Cures All Ills, was simply snake oil.
Chuckie & Co. invented Continuity Rangers FC. (he bought ‘the history’, you know!) to sell season tickets. It worked!
Sorry, their membership was never ever in question. Even the eventual vote re Div 4 entry was by default. There was no worse option.
I would also be very very surprised if the instigator of the continuity myth was the chap holding a refreshed brand with a cast iron fortified legalistic line between it and £168m of severed debt. He may have asked for an inch re his IPO but Im fairly certain he was gladly awarded several miles whether he wanted them or not. His subsequent court testimonies more or less back that up.
No my personal view is the proud parents of the myth lie much closer to home than that.
The story about Morelos and someone allegedly underneath his car… is just weird.
stevieBC
sounds like another reason for him to go rather than TRFC need to sell
Note to JC re court tomorrow.
The latest David Whitehouse v the Chief Constable hearing is now an "Unstarred motion" in the Court Rolls.
There's no point in going along.
I would guess that DW's legal team has withdrawn its motion to move the case to the Commercial Court, as a result of Lord Doherty's initial take on the matter last week. It will save DW a fair bit in costs as he would probably have lost.
easyJambo 29th January 2020 at 15:31
'..Note to JC re court tomorrow..'
++++++++++
Thanks for that,eJ.
I've not been able to find how and why a case relating to compensation for damages for wrongful arrest etc could be dealt with in the Commercial Court.That is, I haven't so far found very much about how the Commercial Court operates except that it appears to be much more informal and sort of leaning towards achieving settlement by discussion, with the judge not 'refereeing' but more actively participating in settling commercial disputes.
It's hard to see how being banged up in the pokey could be considered any kind of commercial action!
Bogs Dollox 29th January 2020 at 13:22
I too believe the continuity myth was unecessary.
……………………..
It was necessary, as only 250 bought season tickets to watch a new club.
Green faced a £15mill black hole. The new club would have gone under before it got off the ground.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1222644017067970560/photo/1
Todays judgment is interesting in that it allows TRFC access to funds they believe they are entitled to under the agrrement with Elite. The problem might be Elite thinking they have been deceived as to the efficacy of any indemnity initially discussed with regard to SDI lurking in the corner.Elite will be wary of SDI next steps and it could be in their interest to privately consult with all parties before releasing any funds at all.I wonder if it is as cut and dried as here you are Dave £2000000 and sorry for the delay.
easyJambo 29th January 2020 at 15:14
I’d expect the case to run for several months more, although I’m sure that all parties would want it resolved before any new strip is launched for next season
………………….
I was thinking about that senario earlier. What if it is not? New shirts have to be registered with the SFA by June 30.
What are the rules on a club having no shirts to play in a league?
someone asked (i don’t have time to look back, sorry) about the celtic CO on holiday when the 5 way was to be signed?
Regan flew out on holiday.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1222648130602225664/photo/1
StevieBC@18.32
Definitely weird. No one can get under a Lamborghini. The ground clearance is 100 millimetres. (I don’t own one, I just googled it)
Ex Ludo
as i said,smsm nonsense,now defoe injured will morelos be here for friday?not only did slimmer of the year get under his car he also out ran him,surely traynor can come up with better than that
Ex Ludo 29th January 2020 at 22:38
StevieBC@18.32
Definitely weird. No one can get under a Lamborghini. The ground clearance is 100 millimetres. (I don’t own one, I just googled it)
==================================
Must have been his "flat" mate
Easyjambo@00.42
Short cymbal crash.
tony 29th January 2020 at 18:48 stevieBC sounds like another reason for him to go rather than TRFC need to sell
____________________-
All rather dramatic, like a scene out of a cheap 'good guy versus evil drugs baron' movie.
If it is a set up, it looks more like one dreamed up by someone somewhat desperate for publicity while sitting around with no opportunity to display his talents, rather than something some devious PR man might come up with.
https://twitter.com/jimspencesport/status/1222816289015705600?s=21
A bit more on Lambogate courtesy of Jim Spence.
Not a court date as such, but the sist period in the case below has expired. It will most likely return to the court in the near future, but I'd expect it to be sisted (put on hold) once again, pending the outcome of the Whitehouse, Clark and Grier cases.
A54/19 Charles Green v The Chief Constable of Police Scotland &c – Jones Whyte Law – Ledingham Chalmers LLP
Short statement o'clock
The Morelos "LamboGate" thing is very odd. Seems utterly disingenuous in as much it doesn't really make sense, and if someone was making it up, they would surely know that.
After all if you had gone to all the bother of creating that story before phoning some subserviant former employees and hangers-on, instructing them to print the story in the former paper of Record and The Daily Shark Jump, you would most likely – surely – have tested out its plausibility first?
Perhaps the answer is that someone really was messing with Morelos’s motor. Lets face it, a car of that type (crass and in bad taste to me but not my kids) is more than likely to attract the gaze and closer inspection of passers-by. Perhaps Morelos innocently, and in high dudgeon, recounted the tale of the unwanted vehicular attention when it was overheard by the PR team, desperate to find a pretext for a transfer of their most sell-able asset.
I use the word desperate because I have heard that loan deals for the likes of Greg Docherty (and Sunderland have a keen interest there) have hit the skids because of the stratospherically high loan fees being requested by the Ibrox Director of Football.
If a few leave on loan tomorrow, one would be forgiven for inferring that the bluff had not worked, and that Rangers blinked first. And that approach to business is I would suggest a sign of desperation – a desperation that would be instantly relieved if that pretext for the Morelos transfer could be found.
When Dembele left Celtic last year, the combination of spin against the player AND spending £9m on Edouard only just kept dissatisfied Celtic fans from storming the Parkhead barricades.
If Morelos goes – especially after the injury to Defoe – Bear on Board action would be almost inevitable.
Desperation is often the mother of recklessness and stupidity. That's my take on LamboGate
Based on what we know from their latest accounts,
RIFC/TRFC should have a much clearer picture of how the land lies come Monday morning,
WRT its financial position – and cashflow through to season end.
EJ
It appears to me that Elite have withheld payments on the pretext that in their opinion, the injunction proscribes it.
Rangers go to court thinking the same, but are told they are mistaken. The fact that they only "hope" the payments will be made suggest that new front has opened up – this time with Elite.
All criticism of Rangers old and new aside, this really doesn't seem like a way to run a business.
I had a look on FF to see the reaction to the latest SDI/TRFC/Elite court judgement.
I was surprised to read that there is a view, being put out by well informed and connected posters, that all is not well in the relationship between TRFC and Elite and that the latter has been hiding behind the SDI injunction to avoid handing over the cash that TRFC claims is due.
That view is backed up to some extent by TRFC's statement that they "hope" that Elite will pay up.
Further concern is raised by the fact that Elite's commercial director is a former SD employee.
The suggestion is that SDI is exerting some influence over Elite' activities in its relationship with TRFC.
Developing story?
EJ
Great minds etc 🙂
I listened with some interest to a report on the volte-face by Irish Government in now agreeing to 'bail out' the Football Association of Ireland, reversing their previous attitude, expressed as recently as December and earlier this month.
From the Irish Times:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/government-to-provide-20m-in-extra-funding-as-part-of-fai-rescue-package-1.4156296
"The Government is to provide almost €20 million in extra funding to the Football Association of Ireland over the next four years as part of a rescue package announced on Thursday.
As part of the deal, €7.6 million Government funding will be provided “in recognition of the importance of the continued operation of the Aviva Stadium”. This money will be paid directly to the company operating the stadium, New Stadium DAC, in three instalments and will be repayable from 2024.
Liabilities of €62 million in the FAI emerged following the restatement of financial accounts for 2016, 2017 and 2018, which were republished late last year. The association has been in the midst of a financial and corporate governance crisis since the emergence of a €100,000 loan from its former chief executive, John Delaney. This sparked a series of controversies, ultimately leading the to the departure of Mr Delaney from the FAI.
The new Government funding is in addition to the €2.9 the association already receives from the State each year.
The Cabinet signed off on the rescue package on Thursday after an emergency “incorporeal” meeting. An incorporeal meeting means not all members of the Cabinet will be physically present, with some dialling in by phone.
It is understood that all sides party to recent rescue discussions have agreed to make concessions. The four parties are the FAI itself, the Government, the association’s bankers, Bank of Ireland, and European football’s governing body, Uefa."
One of the conditions was that the whole existing Board of the FAI should be changed!
But my principal interest is in the part that UEFA played, in the sense that there is no real indication of what part they had to play?
Does UEFA financially help distressed national associations directly with cash, as well as indirectly influencing governments and banks etc to make monies available to avoid the liquidation of a national association?
Big Pink 30th January 2020 at 19:18
EJ
Great minds etc ?
=======================
There's a first time for everything LOL!
Hibs' Kamberi to The Rangers FC (on loan)
STV reporting this evening clubs "locked" in discussions – strange one – why the hell would Hibs help out a competitor – (forgot Ms Dempster was a former season ticket holder @ Ibrox) .
naegreetin
think i am more likely to fit under morelos motor than that happening
Amazing that the fans were already accepting the fate and that they understood fully the impact and the meaning of what was going down and went down. however, the story and the moonbeams story of the Bobby Ewing moment IMO leaves me feeling the fans are so gullible and so insecure it's laughable and it's amazing how easy fools are parted with their money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpImJxXg7K0
bigboab1916
wonder if the guy in video is going about today saying we are the same club
Big Pink 30th January 2020 at 18:25
===================
Some people believe they have an overdue tax bill to HMRC of around £3M. Not just hopeful Celtic fans at the end of a bar I may add. I have no idea whether it's true, and personally I think it unlikely they would be so crazy given all that happened before. However, they did recently use a Rangers friendly newspaper Editor to get a rather pathetic story out there that liquidation didn't really need to happen. HMRC then took the very unusual step of issuing a very strongly worded rebuttal the next day, and made it public into the bargain.
Considering RIFC's increasingly perilous financial position, I had always thought that the SFA/SPFL could be the Ibrox club's banker of last resort.
A secretive loan – or advance of prize monies – is nothing compared to what Hampden has enthusiastically concealed in recent years.
…and further to recent e-mail allegations about a certain CEO…
I wonder if another SPL club could ultimately become the very discreet, banker of last resort for Ibrox – if required?
https://twitter.com/spflscouting/status/1222969230179565568?s=21
stevieBC
you would never see that money again,so think that's a non starter
easyJambo 30th January 2020 at 19:13
'….That view is backed up to some extent by TRFC's statement that they "hope" that Elite will pay up.'
++++++++++
Not directly related to your post, ej, but just on the Persey judgment.
Am I alone in thinking that there's something of a Brysonism element in the judge's decision?
TRFC is not caught doing something naughty until after they have done it, but they cannot be punished for the period that elapsed between when they 'done' it and when it was discovered that they had 'done' it!
They breached their deal with SDIR, Elite/Hummel made some money on account of that in a contract that TRFC were not legally capable of being party to
If I were Elite/ Hummel I'd be inclined to say the contract was null and void, TRFC made a hames of it, and that there would be no legal obligation on me to honour the contract ( and no noblesse oblige on me to honour my part of a contract that the other party knew damn fine he had no power to make!)
The contract was invalid from the start, and I would tell TRFC to GTF! ( I might accept that I should slide a few bob to SDIR for making money that , unknowingly to me, I had no right to make, but that would be between me and SDIR)
I think it's now way beyond reasonable to assume as fact that the football authorities treated a brand new club as if it was a recently defunct club for the purposes of financial and contractual expediency back in 2012.
Notwithstanding the defunct club's culpability with regard to unpunished cheating and gaining unwarranted access to potential European prize money that it wasn't qualified to access, isn't the elephant in the room now the question of whether the SFA and SPL/SFL would've avoided 'financial armageddon' by treating a liquidated Celtic in precisely the same way, had the roles been reversed?
In other words, however much we may hate the term, the 'Old Firm', it has created and maintained an historical duopoly which has positively promoted sectarianism and divide and made humungous amounts of money out of a pseudo-religious Irish political divide to prolong the hatred and vitriol.
Any governing body which genuinely wanted to eradicate this poison could have easily done so at any single point in the past century or so by meaningful points deductions, or ultimately by well deserved banishment or exclusion, but such has been the clamour for maintaining the poison that drives the divide, the square root of diddly squat has happened. Money is what drives football. Money inevitably corrupts. Money is everything – just ask Peter Lawwell.
Smugas 29th January 2020 at 12:07
'…
Sorry JC @ 09.18 I dont buy that.
Were investors genuinely bothered about the continuity thing? ….
..Anyone with a financial hat on knew and knows damn fine what liquidation is and what it meant. The current investors are just as aware.'
++++++++++++++++++
I'm coming late to your post, Smugas, and apologise accordingly.
I think you are correct in asserting that the general run of people who have money to invest have some street savvy, and that those who in fact were the big investors in RIFC plc are more than street savvy!
The basic point I was making, and tried to make to the FCA [still haven't had a reply from them to tell me I am wrong!] is that the IPO prospectus clearly suggested that investors in RIFC plc would be investing in a company which was to make its money from running the most successful football club of all time, Rangers of 140 years of history of sporting achievement.
It's the FCA's job to ensure that Prospectuses [Prospecti?] are so written as not to be misleading to Joe Public. They know that the sharks in the investment world can look after themselves, but they also know that there are millions of potential (albeit small) investors who can be easily misled by cleverly worded references to success and fortune.
And I think that in allowing the RIFC plc IPO Prospectus to be published, the FCA breached their statutory duty to ensure that that there was nothing misleading in it.
Possibly because, if they had at the time ( which they probably did not) asked any questions about this news story about 'Rangers' being liquidated they would have been told by the lying SFA that no, no, Rangers were still alive and thriving and that what the Prospectus said was absolutely true and accurate and not at all misleading. [The kind of response the BBC Trust would have given, and the ASA etc etc]
Highlander 30th January 2020 at 23:28
'..isn't the elephant in the room now the question of whether the SFA and SPL/SFL would've avoided 'financial armageddon' by treating a liquidated Celtic in precisely the same way, had the roles been reversed? '
++++++++++++
No. We know what happened in fact.
Speculation about what might happen in a hypothetical case is irrelevant.
But in saying that, the history is that the Bank establishment and Scottish football was ready to see Celtic FC disappear in fairly recent times!
Whether and to what extent Celtic plc acted unwisely and incorrectly in being party to the lying of the Governance bodies in order to protect their own business future is still not absolutely determined.
But there's not a chance that the SFA would have gone to the same fantastic, lying efforts to save them from the effects of Liquidation as our football governance people did in the case of that club of which the wretched knight of the realm, SDM, was the majority shareholder , and which,disgustingly , he palmed off to CW in order to protect his other business interests, and bugger the loyal fans!
The elephant in the room is the reluctance of all of Scottish Football to acknowledge that our Governance people have made liars and complete ars.s of themselves in refusing even to investigate certain matters while maintaining an absolute fiction about TRFC being Rangers of 1872.
The whole thing is now such a mess that one would hope that UEFA would notice that the SFA is an untrustworthy body.
John Clark 30th January 2020 at 23:46
The thing is John , if I may be so bold , is that it didn't state that they were one and the same thing , by my reading . The IPO tells investors all they need to know about RIFC . Then , unasked and out of nowhere gives a hagiography of a different entity (IL) . It was placed there to deliberately confuse , not business investors , but the gullibles who might buy a share or two , clutching at straws that the death of their club didn't happen . I've been to an AGM . It's still Rangers 1872/73/99 to them because it says Rangers on it , and if you disagree , you are a hater . All the heads will then turn and all the fingers point in your direction . The football authorities know that , and are happy to see your gang take on their gang . Those fans have nothing to lose . It will crush them if they're forced to accept the truth . Then we may see the "Armageddon" that the authorities tried to scare us with . Some p*sh from that enlightened time
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/armageddon-how-was-it-for-you-1504208
paddy malarkey 31st January 2020 at 00:32
'..is that it didn't state that they were one and the same thing , by my reading '
+++++++++
I agree.
It was cleverly done.The 'summary' is all about the most successful club in the world. But even the fine print ( that people might not read) contrives to suggest that RIFC plc owns Rangers of 1872.
But it is the 'summary' that is key.
And in no way should the FCA have let that 'summary' pass without serious question. And, as I say, to whom would they pose the question, other than the lying sods in the SFA!
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 00:46
I agree , very cleverly done . But instead of the potted history of the dead club they could have put something like
The elephant is a dainty bird,
It flits from bough to bough.
It makes its nest in a Rhubarb tree,
And whistles like a cow.
and it would have had as much relevance to the stuff before in the eyes of the FCA . Charles Green knew who was laying the golden eggs and made sure his goose wasn't cooked .
Big Pink 30th January 2020 at 21:58 https://twitter.com/spflscouting/status/1222969230179565568?s=21 ___________________
That must surely rate amongst the 'cheekiest' of transfer/loan deals ever suggested. 'We'll take your striker to help us win the league, while providing you with no advantage (other than a few pounds you can do not much with), then, if we, by some miracle, have the readies, pay you for him if he turns out to be a success. Or we could give you these magic beans…'
If, as the tweet suggests, TRFC really have put this deal to Hibs, then it looks more like an effort to appease the fans with a statement such as 'all our efforts to sign new players were stymied by uncooperative clubs' when the window closes and the title charge has not been supplemented with new blood.
Much as I'd like it to be true, and I don't doubt that somewhere in the Hibs' board's minds the prospect of TRFC not having the readies to pay for Kamberi exists, I very much doubt that anyone at Hibs would be so careless (or boldly honest) to say so, even in private, outside of the confines of the boardroom.
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 00:15
………………….
The elephant in the room is the reluctance of all of Scottish Football to acknowledge that our Governance people have made liars and complete ars.s of themselves in refusing even to investigate certain matters while maintaining an absolute fiction about TRFC being Rangers of 1872.
…………………….
They never will John.
Doncaster shared the prize money due to the then dying club to effectively bribe the non old firm chairmen to back his 11th hour, heavily compromised, version of the planned rescue.
And he did this while he and his SFA buddy Regan were telling them (and us) that all Scottish Football faced armageddon if it lost the key commercial entity that was Rangers/Sevco.
So the reality is Scottish football was bribed and sold for Rangers gold and there was then, and is now, no appetite to ever look back.
……………….
Highlander 30th January 2020 at 23:28
………………
Money is what drives football. Money inevitably corrupts. Money is everything – just ask Peter Lawwell.
……………
I can’t disagree with that.
Money framed what happened in the run up to Rangers tumbling into an ignominious accountants box where it still resides.
Money framed how the SPL and SFA wanted to first keep them alive then bestow all things Rangers to Charlie’s Sevco project.
Money has framed how The Rangers project has performed since 2012.
And money will frame what happens next both at Rangers and how the SPFL/SFA and all the chairmen react to whatever transpires whether it is at Rangers or indeed elsewhere.
The latest iteration of MASH v GASH, lauded by the SMSM as a triumph for T'Rangers, does not seem to have produced sunshine, rainbows and lollipops down Govan way. What looks like a simple toe-in-the-water application by T'Rangers to ensure receipt of monies from Elite does not fall foul of an Injunction has quickly escalated into talk of the ever-popular boycott/protest/statement/march. Views range from there is no problem; the Court has spoken; Elite have put a cheque in the post, through Elite are not paying; Elite will have to be pursued in Court to, my favourite if only for the irony and lack of self awareness explosion, MASH will buy/has bought Elite; some creative accounting will occur; Elite suffers one of those insolvency events; T'Rangers get tuppence in the pound; Elite carries on as T'Elite. Stranger things have happened.
Meanwhile MASH v GASH trundles on threatening the record of Jarndyce v Jarndyce although the Duff & Phelps/BDO Administration/Liquidation might drag on longer than both.
LamboGate may be explained someday but if it turns out to be other than as reported there is every chance that when Frodo is charged with wasting police time the charge is rescinded by the SFA.
LUGOSI 31st January 2020 at 10:28 The latest iteration of MASH v GASH, lauded by the SMSM as a triumph for T'Rangers, does not seem to have produced sunshine, rainbows and lollipops down Govan way. What looks like a simple toe-in-the-water application by T'Rangers to ensure receipt of monies from Elite does not fall foul of an Injunction has quickly escalated into talk of the ever-popular boycott/protest/statement/march. Views range from there is no problem; the Court has spoken; Elite have put a cheque in the post, through Elite are not paying; Elite will have to be pursued in Court to, my favourite if only for the irony and lack of self awareness explosion, MASH will buy/has bought Elite; some creative accounting will occur; Elite suffers one of those insolvency events; T'Rangers get tuppence in the pound; Elite carries on as T'Elite. Stranger things have happened. Meanwhile MASH v GASH trundles on threatening the record of Jarndyce v Jarndyce although the Duff & Phelps/BDO Administration/Liquidation might drag on longer than both. LamboGate may be explained someday but if it turns out to be other than as reported there is every chance that when Frodo is charged with wasting police time the charge is rescinded by the SFA.
_________________
Could it be that we will see, for the first time ever in Scottish football, the introduction of VAR, with Morelos getting off (again) because the replay (of the CCTV footage) shows Morelos had, in fact, not hit the numbers 999 on his mobile with excessive force? Alternatively it might show that what Morelos mistook for the thinnest Celtic supporter ever seen was, in fact, a cat in a baby sized Celtic top.
PS The alternative scenario I suggested was, of course, completely silly
IIRC do Elite not enjoy an indemnity from TRFC/RIFC with regard to any damages that might result from an action by SDI?
In the circumstances would 'ring fencing'/escrow (i.e.retention) by Elite of any sums due to TRFC/RIFC not be a prudent step to take? It would be interesting to see this matter come before a court.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 00:15
Highlander 30th January 2020 at 23:28
'..isn't the elephant in the room now the question of whether the SFA and SPL/SFL would've avoided 'financial armageddon' by treating a liquidated Celtic in precisely the same way, had the roles been reversed? '
++++++++++++
No. We know what happened in fact. Speculation about what might happen in a hypothetical case is irrelevant.
Whether and to what extent Celtic plc acted unwisely and incorrectly in being party to the lying of the Governance bodies in order to protect their own business future is still not absolutely determined.
But there's not a chance that the SFA would have gone to the same fantastic, lying efforts to save them from the effects of Liquidation as our football governance people did in the case of that club
_______________________________________________________
With respect JC, you say that speculation is irrelevant before speculating that Celtic wouldn't be treated as Rangers were.
If financial armageddon was viewed by the football authorities as the inevitable outcome of the demise of the Old Firm, surely it wouldn't matter which of the two clubs died? The surviving club wouldn't have the ability to attract commercial and TV contracts without its partner in crime.
The following is not directed at you JC, but it strikes me yet again that criticism of Celtic on here is frowned upon unless that criticism comes from the Celtic support.
For the past few weeks the internet, not just on this site, has been awash with condemnation from the Celtic support of Peter Lawwell and Celtic's part in the continuity myth, 5WA and reluctance to support Res 12, all for the purposes of financial expediency, yet when I use different words to express the same thing, I am apparently in the wrong.
Allyjambo 31st January 2020 at 07:17
'..I very much doubt that anyone at Hibs would be so careless (or boldly honest) to say so, even in private, outside of the confines of the boardroom.'
++++++++++++++
As we know, Aj, there is a powerful element of fear in Scottish Football, that inhibits free speech and discussion.
For example, Queen's Park president Gerry Crawley is reported as being determined to show that Queen's Park are all about sustainability and any comparisons to the crash-and-burn strategy that befell Gretna over a decade ago are not welcome.
(today's 'The Scotsman', Craig Stewart on page 55)
He chickened out of making reference to another, much bigger club, that went into Liquidation on account of sports cheating allied with tax dodging and the massive debts incurred thereby just eight years ago and which ceased every bit as much as Gretna to be a football club participating in Scottish Professional football.
No harm to Queen's Park, of course and I do wish them well in their intention ,according to Crawley, 'to have a fundamental handle on the budgets that we have'
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 13:37
Sometime, though, John, it's what people don't say that can convey a hidden message, even while being seen as being expedient. In this case ignoring the 'biggest' and most spectacular Scottish football club to die in a way that gets people wondering why, have they been forgotten?
On a more likely note-
It could also be said that the Gretna situation is more germaine to QPFC than it is to Rangers. It could also be said to be more germaine to Gretna than to what the situation was at Hearts, Motherwell, Dundee and Dunfermline as QPFC are much closer in stature to Gretna than they are to any of those 'larger' clubs.
Still, I doubt he would want to bring down the wrath that was bound to follow if he had mentioned Rangers FC(IL) in this way. And their home is more or less situated in the woods where the bears sh*t.
Highlander 31st January 2020 at 12:58
'…With respect JC, you say that speculation is irrelevant before speculating that Celtic wouldn't be treated as Rangers were.'
++++++++++++
That's a fair cop, Highlander. I misdirected myself.
My defence is that ,while I am incandescent with rage at Celtic's refusal in 2012 to take a stand on principle that RFC of 1872 should have been formally expelled from football and stripped of its foully obtained titles and honours, and that CG's new club should have been (and should still be) declared to be a new club etc etc, I cannot accept that there is any equivalence between the evil perpetrated by the SFA (and before that, by SDM) and the weakness demonstrated by Celtic plc (and all the other clubs! bar RR) in Scottish professional football in failing to deal properly with that evil.
There are degrees of wickedness!
John Clark 30th January 2020 at 23:46
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Smugas 29th January 2020 at 12:07
‘…
Sorry JC @ 09.18 I dont buy that.
Were investors genuinely bothered about the continuity thing? ….
..Anyone with a financial hat on knew and knows damn fine what liquidation is and what it meant. The current investors are just as aware.’
++++++++++++++++++
I’m coming late to your post, Smugas, and apologise accordingly.
I think you are correct in asserting that the general run of people who have money to invest have some street savvy, and that those who in fact were the big investors in RIFC plc are more than street savvy!
The basic point I was making, and tried to make to the FCA [still haven’t had a reply from them to tell me I am wrong!] is that the IPO prospectus clearly suggested that investors in RIFC plc would be investing in a company which was to make its money from running the most successful football club of all time, Rangers of 140 years of history of sporting achievement.
It’s the FCA’s job to ensure that Prospectuses [Prospecti?] are so written as not to be misleading to Joe Public. They know that the sharks in the investment world can look after themselves, but they also know that there are millions of potential (albeit small) investors who can be easily misled by cleverly worded references to success and fortune.
And I think that in allowing the RIFC plc IPO Prospectus to be published, the FCA breached their statutory duty to ensure that that there was nothing misleading in it.
……………………..
paddy malarkey 31st January 2020 at 00:32
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John Clark 30th January 2020 at 23:46
The thing is John , if I may be so bold , is that it didn’t state that they were one and the same thing , by my reading . The IPO tells investors all they need to know about RIFC . Then , unasked and out of nowhere gives a hagiography of a different entity (IL) . It was placed there to deliberately confuse , not business investors , but the gullibles who might buy a share or two ,
……………..
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 00:46
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paddy malarkey 31st January 2020 at 00:32
‘..is that it didn’t state that they were one and the same thing , by my reading ‘
+++++++++
I agree.
……………………..
If i remember at the time Green got Ashley on board with the shares. He had a great shirt contract at the time and maybe even a better one if more shares were bought, the shirt deal would more than covered his layout for shares. The ordinary punter seeing a Billionare like Ashley getting on board as a This is a great deal. What i’m getting at is the big investers knew there was money to be made and knew or did not care for the prospectus wording, they knew there was money to be made. But i get JC point that the small investers were being misled as to what they were buying shares in.
Ps if i remember it was £500 for a starter
Cluster One 31st January 2020 at 18:04
If i remember at the time Green got Ashley on board with the shares. He had a great shirt contract at the time and maybe even a better one if more shares were bought, the shirt deal would more than covered his layout for shares. The ordinary punter seeing a Billionare like Ashley getting on board as a This is a great deal. What i’m getting at is the big investers knew there was money to be made and knew or did not care for the prospectus wording, they knew there was money to be made. But i get JC point that the small investers were being misled as to what they were buying shares in.
Ps if i remember it was £500 for a starter
===============================
Ashley made his investment in TRFCL in October 2012, which coincided with JJB Sports going into admin on 24 September 2012, and Sports Direct buying part of the business, assets, the brand (maybe even the history
) on 1st October.
With the 10 year JJB retail deal with RFC plc ending prematurely with 4 years to run, Ashley would have seen the opportunity to get a foot in the door at Ibrox and revive the former JJB deal with Charles Green on different and more favourable terms.
I strongly suspect that Ashley’s investment was opportunistic based on the JJB Sports situation at that moment in time. I’m sure that Ashley’s people would have done their due diligence on JJB’s portfolio of partners and the contractual arrangements.
The £500.
The Gymnastics in this piece are brilliant, no wonder the gullibles parted with their cash. A web site and everything.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223337207232192512/photo/1
easyJambo 31st January 2020 at 19:11
Ashley made his investment in TRFCL in October 2012, which coincided with JJB Sports going into admin on 24 September 2012, and Sports Direct buying part of the business, assets, the brand (maybe even the history blush ) on 1st October.
……………………
And inbetween all that Green was coming near a deal with Adidas;-)
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223343909075636225/photo/1
Earlier this evening on Sportsound David Currie was telling us of the upcoming 'transfer window' programme from 9.00 pm to midnight. He speculated on the possibility of there being a shattering , earth-moving headline story breaking at twenty seconds to midnight, and asked Chick whether he thought there might be.
When Chick reminded himself of the Tore Andre Flo transfer to the now defunct Rangers ( which was, apparently, something of a surprise! ) Currie came back instantly with a 'aye, and see how that ended'.
I laughed out loud! I reckon it ended very badly indeed.
Cluster One 31st January 2020 at 20:10
'..The £500.,'
+++++++++
Once again, Cluster one, you're a great hand at producing contemporary source material relating to current discussion on the blog!
Anyone reading that piece (perhaps the FCA) would definitely read it as indicating that the plan to go to the market was based on conning potential investors into believing they would be investing in a company that would make its money by owning Rangers Football Club of 1872.
It strengthens my readiness to believe that the SFA in effect helped set up what I believe to have been a dishonest IPO prospectus, and were possibly aware of that fact.
Ok it’s quite so i may get away with this.
Feel a bit like Jimbo (what ever happened to him?)
Anyway, every time i log into the blog and see A lie for a lie.
I can’t get this song out of my head, so i should not be the only one tortured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRXPE9QyxvE&w=640&h=360
Apolgies in advance if this seems preachy but if it helps even one reader then job done.
The banning of Brian Rice is neither here nor there as far as I am concerned.Footballers will always bet on games that they think they have more insight to than joe public.The professional sports are always open to insider knowledge and corruption but a savvy punter will factor this as much as possible into the equation. In short the game is rigged…always has been. Do you think Las Vegas exists in the middle of a desert because you have an even chance?..Forget it.Walk up to any fruit machine and it will promise a minimum payout of maybe 90%, this means that you will lose at least 10% of your wallet but usually more due to the flashing lights and music etc.I like to think that sports betting is something where the punter may have an edge due to taking an opinion on an outcome not determined purely by chance.When I place a bet on anything involving human interaction then trying to factor in the impossible fails.EG Lower grade horse racing in this country .The prize money and prestige for winning is negligible but it offers the chance to make money if you are in the know.A day out with friends and small stakes only on anything other than graded races. Compare a class 6 selling handicap at Southwell to the Gold cup at Cheltenham.The connections of the classier race are in it to win it and not make money by laying or planning a 'coup'.In the better races then form,trends and personal interpretation of such things really matters.I bet for fun,always aware of the 'known unknowns' in any outcome and self monitor my habit. I know and accept that in the long term as punter without inside knowledge then I will probably lose. I still do it for the thrill of the occasional win that makes me believe my opinion was validated.I repeat,when I gamble I accept that the stake is far more likely to be lost than returned manyfold.This acceptance is paramount to any attitude to gambling. Don't be fooled by any 'my mate has a gud fing' nonsense.Set limits,pick your own losers and walk away having enjoyed the transient ecstacy of sometimes winning.
https://about.gambleaware.org/
SFA chief exective Ian Maxwell said his body does not check on employment contracts, instead the SPFL askes clubs to self-certify that they are not breaching employment law.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223377838595878914/photo/1
……………….
You wuld think that after the ibrox fiasco they would take an interest in player contracts.
easyJambo 31st January 2020 at 19:11
‘..Ashley made his investment in TRFCL in October 2012.’
Again, eJ, I post not in respect of the substance of your post, but only to say that it prompted me to look again at the IPO prospectus (I couldn’t remember whether Ashley’s shareholding pre-dated the issue of the IPO).
In doing so, I came across this, which has nothing to do with Ashley, and cannot honestly say that I had previously seen it:
“12.1.7 5 Way Agreement between SFA, SFL, SPL, RFC 2012 plc and RFCL …
‘..The SFA, SPL, SFL, RFC 2012 plc and RFCL entered into an agreement dated 27 July 2012 ...The Administrators of RFC 2012 plc disclaimed all liability in relation to the 5 Way Agreement.”
That prompts me to ask, were they actually signatories? If so, they could hardly ‘disclaim all liability’ for what they signed up to?
Was that an attempt by Whitehouse and Clark [ the very people who knew for an absolute fact that they had failed to bring RFC of 1872 out of Administration by failing to secure a buyer who was ready to pay all the debts of the club in administration] to distance themselves from the nonsense of ‘continuity’?
Or were they only present to formally surrender the RFC of 1872’s SPL share to the SPL, under the Articles of Association of the SPL?
One wonders, why else would they need to be party to any such Agreement?
Cluster One 31st January 2020 at 22:59
'..SFA chief exective Ian Maxwell said his body does not check on employment contracts, ..'
'…You would think that after the ibrox fiasco they would take an interest in player contracts.'
+++++++++
Indeed.
But of course they have a history of not checking what a lying majority shareholder of Rangers FC of 1872 told them he was paying his players!
At a time when CO from his personal knowledge and enrichment knew, allegedly, what lies had been told.
Such a stupid statement by Maxwell sums it all up.
The SFA is no kind of trustworthy 'governance' body.
You'll remember that the SFA's Judicial Panel issued a punishment to Rangers that was later found under judicial review to have been ultra vires. That is, the judge decided that the SFA articles and rules did not give the judicial panel the power to impose the specific sanction it sought to hand down.
Organisations and individuals can – and do – often act beyond their powers.
The 5WA contains a contractual agreement to collectively accept a construct (defining an association football club in an entirely new way) which was clearly at odds with the extant SPL and SFA articles/rules and the constitution of the SFL.
It would beyond credible that any officer of these organisations believed he had the power (from their respective articles, rules and constitution) to agree to sanction such a construct.
Such an agreement would likely – in legal terms – to be declared null and void if challenged. Of course, within the parties, there is no incentive to question the validity of the agreement.
As there was a financial benefit to the creation and acceptance of this false construct, the question of whether a fraudulent transaction took place is still open.
Remember, Sevco effectively paid the SPL £2.55m for this false construct.
I agree with JC, the SFA – as a signatory to the 5WA – became party to the subsequent false IPO prospectus.
John Clark 31st January 2020 at 23:47
‘..The SFA, SPL, SFL, RFC 2012 plc and RFCL entered into an agreement dated 27 July 2012 ...The Administrators of RFC 2012 plc disclaimed all liability in relation to the 5 Way Agreement.”
============================
I don't know if you were in court at the time, but I recall asking DG about the 5WA, in relation to the indemnities and reference to CAS. He said that he personally didn't know what the 5WA was, but that he would ask DW/PC. At a subsequent court date he said that DW/PC didn't know anything about it either. I told him that was a bit odd as they were supposed to be signatories to the agreement on behalf of RFC plc.
I've tried to reconcile the above with the highlighted bit from your post. It may reflect that the administrators took a view that the 5WA had nothing to do with them (it didn't, barring the SPL share transfer). They may have intimated at an early stage that they would not accept any new claim or liability imposed on them, other than what arose as part of the normal administration process. To that extent, they would not have participated in the creation or discussions that led to the 5WA, hence their claim to me of having no knowledge of the agreement.
Just to highlight another 'unusual' element of the 5WA…
It contains a clause which specifically includes the Recitals as part of the body of the agreement.
Recitals to an agreement normally 'set the scene' and would include include uncontroversial facts about the participants that simply give context to the formal parts of the document. Recitals are not normally, in themselves, legally binding in contractual terms.
That the 5WA was constructed in this way tells me that they were sensitive to the fact that their novel construct for an association football club was not uncontroversial. Agreement between the parties for the construct needed to be confirmed in strict contractual terms. They hid in the Recitals in an attempt to make their creation appear 'normal'. It was anything but…
JC & EJ, From my ever less accurate memory I seem to recall that Green was given permission by the administrators (or it was claimed he had been given permission) to act on behalf of Rangers FC (IL) and as such signed the 5WA on behalf of both Rangers (IL) and Sevco.
I may be completely wrong with this but it may jog someone's memory if I am in anyway correct, but it might explain the existence of the disclaimer and also the claim by DG and subsequently DC/PC that they knew nothing about the 5WA. Perhaps a more accurate statement might have been to say the chose to know nothing about it.
Fitba' rules they can bend, break, ignore or re-draft with impunity, but there are some things by which even the corrupt must comply.
Members meetings were hastily called, as highlighted on the steps of Hampden by the late honourable Turnbull Hutton. They were not an attempt to do the right thing, but a legal requirement, minuted and recorded for posterity.
. The 5-way agreement?…….Merely an addendum stapled to the application form……It's all documented and recorded, as per the legal obligations of a company limited by guarantee…..Which the SFA are.
If the correct legal procedures were followed, it's all written down folks…. hidden in plain view.
If they have complied with company laws in the same manner as they complied with their own rules, that may be a problem.
Rules the SFA MUST obey?…..Who'd hae thunk it?…..I smell the sweaty sock of Achilles.
https://www.informdirect.co.uk/business-management/company-limited-by-guarantee-what-is-it/
Allyjambo 1st February 2020 at 13:16
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JC & EJ, From my ever less accurate memory I seem to recall that Green was given permission by the administrators (or it was claimed he had been given permission) to act on behalf of Rangers FC (IL) and as such signed the 5WA on behalf of both Rangers (IL) and Sevco.
………….
Regan off to Airport.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1223619679194898432/photo/1
A bit off topic but one last comment on Lambogate. A story has emerged on Twitter saying the guy tampering with the Lamborghini was a PI hired by a certain footballer’s girlfriend to put a tracking device on the car. The veracity of this explanation is not confirmed but it’s interesting that the tabloids have dropped the story.
I note the following from last Thursday's Court Roll :
"The sists in the undernoted cases have expired. Accordingly the cases will be put out By Order in the near future. Intimation should be given to the Keeper of the Rolls of any cases on the list which have settled:
1. A54/19 Charles Green v The Chief Constable of Police Scotland &c "
As far as I can gather, this means that the period for which it was agreed/decided that a case should be put to sleep for a while (as far as further court action is concerned) has expired, and it either has to be brought back into action or abandoned.
I don't know whether we, the public, would necessarily be told if Green has abandoned his action or reached a settlement?
I'll watch out for the 'By Order'
Hello strangers!
I’ve been lurking every day. But that wee dog on the front page has broken my heart. Wanted to make sure I could get back on before I send a donation.
Me@18.03
Must be true. The Sunday Mail are running with the PI story.
Allegedly , a certain player was having a liaison with a quine . And not like Stevie G to throw players under the bus .
Ex Ludo 2nd February 2020 at 00:09
Must be true. The Sunday Mail are running with the PI story.
========================================
Sunday Mail@Sunday_Mail
Exclusive in tomorrow's Sunday Mail: Rangers star Alfredo Morelos' car targeted by private detective hired by his wife
Nicked from Twitter
Columbo 1
Columbian 0
Oh, and just one more thing…
Immediately, when the very weird 'brakes tampering / incredibly thin man' story broke, the average Bampot smelt sh… something unpleasant.
Unlike some in the SMSM – who quickly seized the opportunity to produce all sorts of admonishing, preaching p!sh.
And now it appears – allegedly – that the on field, inveterate cheat is not too honest off the field either…?
Quelle surprise!
According to the Sunday Mail, the SFA has banned at least one player for betting on games & kept it secret:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sfa-chiefs-secret-gambling-ban-21412212
I wonder if the player appeared on the 'Suspensions List' which is available on the SFA's website? I remember a few years ago that a Hamilton Academical player (Simon Mensing) got a drugs ban & that was hushed up until he had served his suspension.
This lack of transparency from the governing body can't be good for the game.
Jingso Jimsie
I was told on Friday that a particular player who is often in the news was the subject of an investigation into a spread-betting situation and that today’s papers would have details. Told this morning that publication was prevented by injunction. Was sceptical at first but is this perhaps a sideways allusion to that?
I re-read the Scottish Sun article on 29 Jan. which seemed to start the story about the Morelos car incident being 'brake tampering'. When you read it there is no mention of sources. The few quotes from neighbours do not mention brakes. It was pure speculation.
The latest story in the same publication is more believable – stop laughing at the back! There is mention of sources. Apparently there has indeed been an arrest, confirmed by the police. The PI volunteered going to the police because he was worried about the brake tampering allegations. I didn't read the journalist saying "That was us! That was us!"
At the end of the day rival fans can sleep easy, the inference of dangerous sabotage was unfounded. Scottish football's reputation is restored.
It's an astonishingly perverted SMSM when the off-field affairs of footballers can grab front page headlines while the lies and corruption of the Governance board in the propagation of the sporting myths [that RFC of 1872 were entitled to a UEFA competitions licence in 20112 and that TRFC ,created in 2012, is somehow 140-odd years old!] are investigated and reported on.
Let's see, say,Gordon Blackstock interviewing, say, Maxwell, like an investigative journalist like, say, Alex Thomson would interview him about the Res12 matter and the 5-Way Agreement and why SDM's cheating was not discovered by any ordinary, routine SFA internal checking mechanism (when eyebrows were first raised at the quality of players who were apparently accepting such relatively low wages)
Hey, Jimbo, great to see you back. Gies us a wee song
…Hmm, maybe no
Hiya Allyjambo, I was with my Jambo pal and his good lady yesterday. I often tell him what you and easy are saying.
We were talking about your new manager and how he will need time. I mentioned why is CL not off the premises yet? He agreed but reckons, according to what he has heard, AB is doing him a favour because he has a similar problem to Brian Rice.
I'll leave my songs to Sentinel Celts where I mostly post now!
Cheers.
Jimbo,
Echoing EJ's post above. Great to see you back. I've missed your insightful contributions; even the 'wee songs'.
You won't believe it! The latest is that the Private Investigator is ex Army and wait for it – a ST holder at Ibrox. Fair play to him at least he wasn't trying to endanger someone's life. I don't know the legalities of his efforts but if he is only being charged with a breach of the peace it must be pretty low down the chain.
I await all the apologies from various mouthpieces.
Cheers Mordecai, it's good to be back!
Big Pink 2nd February 2020 at 12:05
I was told on Friday that a particular player who is often in the news was the subject of an investigation into a spread-betting situation and that today’s papers would have details. Told this morning that publication was prevented by injunction. Was sceptical at first but is this perhaps a sideways allusion to that?
———————
Interesting. Do you know whether the player, the club he plays for, or the SFA applied for the injunction?
JohnClark@12.03
I suppose it’s a “value” judgement on what will sell more papers. The recent Profumo affair television series showed us that that the tabloids have never changed. The story should be why certain papers speculated wildly about the Lamborghini and thereby encouraged even more hysterical and libellous assertions on social media.
jimbo 2nd February 2020 at 15:12
'..I don't know the legalities of his efforts but if he is only being charged with a breach of the peace it must be pretty low down the chain…'
+++++++++++
And a welcome back from me, jimbo.
Anent your post, I spent an otherwise empty part of the morning trying to find out what kind of offence it might be to stick a tracking device on someone's car without their permission.
I found all kinds of interesting stuff that I hadn't known existed. For example, there is a 'Lawful basis interactive guidance tool' published on line by the Information Commissioner Scotland for use by folk whose official jobs(authorised) might require some detailed knowledge of the Data protection stuff as well as the law(in England) of trespass give rise to the need to collect data.
I couldn't take it all in, f course, but there can be criminal offences and civil offences involved if a person whether an 'official' or a private eye records personal data of people by remote tracking of them.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/gdpr-resources/lawful-basis-interactive-guidance-tool/
I suspect that our PI was maybe lucky that the polis /PF couldn't be ar.ed using the Data protection complicated stuff, and settled instead for an everyday breach of the peace!
Thanks John, I just wondered if his wife/partner giving permission might have compromised the illegality. (What's mine is yours etc.)
jimbo 2nd February 2020 at 16:12
'..What's mine is yours etc.'
++++++++++++
Ha,ha! The lawyers could have a wee discussion on the question of whether the family car belongs to both man and wife and whether either could give permission for the other to be tailed/tracked without their knowledge or permission.
jimbo 1st February 2020 at 22:49
……………
Never a stranger when someone remembers your name.
Ok i post one song. I now step back.
……………………………..
I’ll leave my songs to Sentinel Celts where I mostly post now!
……………………
So you have been playing away, i would check under your car on the way home;-)
C.O.
btw I almost kept in touch! I had a good blether with Big Pink about a year ago. He was in my local picking up a guitar. If you get the chance his group is well worth a listen. Moonrocks or Moonraker – my memory is terrible nowadays.
jimbo 2nd February 2020 at 19:06
I had a good blether with Big Pink about a year ago. He was in my local picking up a guitar. If you get the chance his group is well worth a listen. Moonrocks or Moonraker – my memory is terrible nowadays.
===================================
Big Pink is into "rock".
https://www.moonrocks.band/
(apologies for the advertising)
Cheers for that EJ looking forward to watching that later on esp. Cigarettes and Alcohol, but I'm watching the snooker final just now.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11925255/exclusive-morelos-on-racism-discipline-and-life-at-rangers
Disfrutate!
Jingso.Jimsie 3rd February 2020 at 11:29
'..Disfrutate!'
+++++++++++
Not exactly something to enjoy, Jingo.Jimsie, just another attempt by the media to try to tell us that a throat-slitting gesture meant 'it's over' or some such nonsense.
What next? A documentary about the incorruptibility and gold standard integrity of Scottish Football governance over the past 20 years or so?
That would be just about as believable as that 'interview' with Morelos.
There seems to be a lot of deflection going on and I cannot think it's to distract from Morelos' private life. Today's race card is scraping the barrel , is there a reason why we should feel sorry for this individual? Is he involved in the spread betting allegation ? Meanwhile we have now entered February and the "massive investment" hinted at by Alex Rae doesn't seem to have materialised . Maybe the corona virus has put investors on caution , the Chinese market was down 8% on opening today which may restrict Julian Wolhardt's ability to raise funds for vanity projects from far East speculators. Dave King is still listed as a Director at Companies House and his presence even from behind a curtain will not encourage external funding . The share issue mentioned at the AGM doesn't seem to be making any headway either. The transfer window didn't bring in the multi million offers suggested and wages saved by loaning players out were neutralised by those coming in. I'm sure the Close loan is due repayment in February , can they roll it over for another year ? Can they roll it over and increase it or will Close call time on this risky venture ? I believe they may just have ran out of road.
(A quick run through of moonrocks playlist – what excellent taste in music , none more so than Maid in Heaven by Be Bop Deluxe , a band I was lucky enough to see 3 times at the Apollo in Glasgow.)
TimTim
There’s a rough version of that on the FB page taken by a punter at a soundcheck.
Just read a post elsewhere listing 3 bad results for TRFC that had, in the immediate aftermath, 3 stories clearly seeking sympathy for Morelos/TRFC.
Drew 1-1 with Hearts at Tynecastle followed by claims Morelos was racially abused. Police and Hearts follow it up, nothing found to substantiate it (I'm not saying it didn't happen).
Beaten 2-1 by Hearts at Tynecastle followed by Lamborghini-gate that held strong insinuations it involved a Celtic supporter. Absolute nonsense.
Drew 0-0 with Aberdeen at Ibrox followed by media PR job including claims of racism aimed at Morelos (not specifically in that game).
Perhaps TRFC are not going to win the league, and it's everyone else to blame – for unsettling their prized 'asset'.
John Clark 3rd February 2020 at 11:58:
The ‘enjoyment’ isn’t in the content of the piece, but in deconstructing the purpose/need of TRFC to permit said (very rare) interview with ‘Puir Wee Elfie’ at this time.
So what was it: recent team performances, Lambogate, the Judicial Panel x2 on Thursday (which shouldn’t affect Morelos directly, I think), the Corona Virus preventing his transfer to China for gazillions, or something else that’s not yet in the public domain?
It’s a ‘scurius pucheranii’, if you will: deflection, but why now?
(Apologies. Much of my post has been covered by Allyjambo above. Must post faster!)
“Why now” is a pertinent question indeed. We are often advised to follow the money so I did and well to cut a long story short there isn’t any. We know there is a minimum 10m shortfall to see out the season , we know there are millions in outstanding transfer fees, we know they owe Close a minimum of 4m , we know they owe Ashley many millions , we know King can’t/won’t put any more money in , we suspect other Directors are tapped out , we know there were no substantial fees incoming during the transfer window, we know there is no movement on a share issue , we know that they have been spending more than they earn since inception. They had to meet the January wage bill as it fell due before the transfer window closed . They still had hope of domestic success and CL riches next year before Hearts and Aberdeen recently put a dent in that. The picture at the beginning of January was one filled with hope and possibility , the picture now is one of despair. As is normal down Ibrox way the toys are coming out the pram and the fingers are being pointed at everybody else.They say history doesn’t repeat but it rhymes so for the 14th of this month
“Faces are Red – invoices are to – stump up the cash – or it’s Sevco series 2 ” (apologies in advance)
If you haven’t listened to Sportsound this evening, then it’s worth listening to it on the podcast for Michael Stewart’s rant about James Traynor.
Allyjambo 3rd February 2020 at 15:43
'..Just read a post elsewhere listing 3 bad results for TRFC that had, in the immediate aftermath, 3 stories clearly seeking sympathy for Morelos/TRFC.'
+++++++++++
And I've just been listening to Michael Stewart debunking the 'Morelos as a victim ' myth', battling with McIntyre (useless as a 'chairman' because of his personal allegiances) and Darryl Broadfoot about the leaked story about tampering with brakes, and the Skysport interview with Morelos recorded last Friday being put out to get the Lamborghini story off the pages; and having a go at Traynor and his leaked stories that ,as it were, drum up PR business for him, and do damage to TRFC its image.
Listen back to Sportsound when you can.
‘Jim Traynor is a dangerous character ‘
Michael Stewart
A 'friend' of one of Scotland's most successful, be-knighted, businessmen? Surely not!
Allyjambo 3rd February 2020 at 15:43
'..Just read a post elsewhere listing 3 bad results for TRFC that had, in the immediate aftermath, 3 stories clearly seeking sympathy for Morelos/TRFC.'
====================
When I became aware of the latest Morelos racism claims this morning I was angry to the point that I hoped Celtic would respond to them. As the day wore on though I am glad they didn't. That is twice now the claim has been made that Morelos was racially abused at Celtic Park on 29th December, and no substantive evidence has ever been provided. There were TV microphones, Police and stewards everywhere, yet the only person to hear racism is someone who is unable to speak English. This comes hard on the heels of seeing absurd implications in the media that Celtic fans were attempting to harm Morelos and his family by tampering with the brakes on his car.
I am glad Celtic did not respond because I am sure that is exactly what Rangers want, and also because someone like Tom English would dive straight in with a 'let's stop the tit-for-tat' type article. I often see football writers complaining about the poisonous atmosphere surrounding Scottish Football, while completely ignoring the chief culprits behind it all. This is not two sides of the same coin. If Rangers PR are allowed to continue this vile campaign unchallenged, then who is to say what is going to happen if the more unhinged in our society allow it to influence their actions.
Timtim, yes indeed: Lambogate is a ridiculous story – but at least it's a useful distraction from a dire lack of readies down Govan way.
And, unlike 2012 when both Ibrox and Hampden reacted to events, and made things up as they went along – to accommodate an Ibrox club,
…this time should be no surprise whatsoever to anyone who has merely skimmed through the latest RIFC accounts.
And, it would seem reasonable to expect that Hampden and Ibrox have already discussed options and actions to deal with an insolvency event.
And, to sidestep awkward questions and those pesky Internet Bampots, their agreed solution – and accompanying PR assault in the SMSM – will be executed with indecent haste.
I would also guess that – perhaps a first – the Hampden blazers will have a comprehensive and detailed plan to rollout if and when required.
And as we know: the SFA & SPFL ARE the 42 senior clubs.
So, a question I would now be eager to ask Lawwell – who infamously claimed at the AGM to have never seen the 5WA – is this;
"Peter, forget about the 5WA.
But, can you tell the CFC fans if you – or anyone at CFC – have been involved in any discussions with representatives of the SFA, the SPFL or The Rangers in the last 12 months – to address how to deal with a potential insolvency event arising at Ibrox?"
Timtim 3rd February 2020 at 16:22
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“Why now” is a pertinent question indeed. We are often advised to follow the money so I did and well to cut a long story short there isn’t any. We know there is a minimum 10m shortfall to see out the season , we know there are millions in outstanding transfer fees, we know they owe Close a minimum of 4m , we know they owe Ashley many millions , we know King can’t/won’t put any more money in , we suspect other Directors are tapped out , we know there were no substantial fees incoming during the transfer window, we know there is no movement on a share issue , we know that they have been spending more than they earn since inception. They had to meet the January wage bill as it fell due before the transfer window closed . They still had hope of domestic success and CL riches next year before Hearts and Aberdeen recently put a dent in that. The picture at the beginning of January was one filled with hope and possibility , the picture now is one of despair. As is normal down Ibrox way the toys are coming out the pram and the fingers are being pointed at everybody else.They say history doesn’t repeat but it rhymes so for the 14th of this month
…………………
We know they still have enough cash to pay a dangerous character
@C1
There always seems to be enough cash to pay the Minister of Propaganda ,he's not someone you want to get on the wrong side of . I remember just before he took up a position at Ibrox he publicly stated
They’ll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended. No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died.
Why do other journalists do his bidding ? Does he have the power to damage them ? Yes he is certainly a dangerous and imo nasty little man so is it any wonder his bills are settled ? You need a long straw to sit and sup with this character.
@Stevie BC 20:22
I have no doubt that should an insolvency event present itself then everything will be done to usher them back with the minimum of damage . They have already paved the way by excluding the clubs from having a say . What won't happen is Celtic or the SFA funding the shortfall to dig them out a hole , even if they wanted to the hole is now too deep.
I sent this little email to the FCA earlier today:
To:Complaints Scheme
3 Feb at 09:46
Dear Complaints Scheme,
It is now two months since I last heard from you about my complaint that the FCA may have breached its statutory duty in authorising a misleading IPO Prospectus.
May I have an update, please, on the action that the Authority has taken in respect of that complaint?
Yours sincerely,
me."
It was acknowledged by automated email.
I think the interim CEO needs to pull his socks up, or he will definitely not get the job permanently!
John, sounds like a supporting letter from your MP might help, if you are lucky enough to have an empathetic one!
They dare not ignore correspondence from an MP.
Even if your MP has no sympathy with your point raised they are duty bound to support you in the handling of your correspondence to a body like the FCA.
David Low@Heavidor3h
Four of us unrepentant types down here @ the Turnberry Hotel restaurant when in walk the RIFC board for a strategy meeting; sat down at the table next, looked up, stood up and left. Funny as ………. couldn’t make it up
=======================
Decisions, decisions, decisions to be made , but not in the present company, thanks!
.
Now why on earth would they be wary of David Low overhearing anything?
When I think about it they might have been interested in what David Low was speaking about!
EJ if you are still on. I was telling AJ that I was with my Jambo pal a few days ago. I mentioned that the new stand at Tynecastle looked pretty good. He went off on a rant! Costs spiralled out of control from £12m to £24 apparently. And it’s still not finished. He reckoned AB was instrumental in the joinery work being awarded to friend or family company and was a major factor in delays etc. I think there was much more to it than that.
My point to him was this. Major building and civil engineering works are guesswork. Fixed Price Contracts are the exception rather than the rule for that reason. Pricing the cost of a ‘Pre-Fab’ housing scheme would be easy. Most others are not. So they opt for ‘Cost Plus’ contracts.
I remember in the 1970s the first time I was aware of this. Ninewells Hospital. It was front page news how much dearer it ended up. Since then – take your pick. The Scottish Parliament Building. The HS2 railway line being the latest.
The ‘inflated’ cost of the new stand is par for the course! As Aberdeen FC will find out soon enough. Clever clubs will take the first estimate with a pinch of salt. Have in the back of your mind up to double.
I see BBC have departed from the norm and have yet to put up the Podcast of last night's Sportsound. For anyone who wants to hear the part of it where Michael Stewart gives it tight to Rangers PR tactics, see the link below. Macintyre and Broadfoot should just give up and spend Monday nights in the Louden Tavern, where they will find plenty of like minded individuals.
As for Michael Stewart, I suspect he is now about to follow the same path as Jim Spence out of the BBC, such will be the volume of complaints, and no doubt threats coming down the line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZEZXkr9OiM&t=328s
jimbo 4th February 2020 at 00:11
Now why on earth would they be wary of David Low overhearing anything?
================
Perhaps they didn't want him to hear them discussing the 'massive investment' coming Rangers way?
UTH@07.04
It seems pointless by me, at least, to try and limit the damage of that Sportsound broadcast by failing to put the podcast up since the horse has well and truly bolted. In the clip from the link above there seems to be some desperation by Daryl Broadfoot to play down Lambogate and continue to push the narrative that Senhõr Morelos is more sinned against than sinning. Kudos to Michael Stewart for telling it like it is and sticking to his guns. There is a dark parallel with what went on yesterday in Downing Street when the assembled Press Corp walked out because only a chosen few were deemed worthy enough to get restricted briefing from whoever presents this sort of stuff inside No. 10. In terms of Scottish football it is quite clear that Mr Broadfoot is one of the chosen few who can be trusted to remain “on message” The corollary of that is that Michael Stewart may find himself outside the tent looking in along with Jim Spence. If that does transpire then it would be a great coup for this site if Michael Stewart could provide some thoughts on this forum?
It is all about cash.
That is what pays the bills as the clock ticks on relentlessly.
The blue club don’t have enough revenue to cover their outgoings between now and the arrival of season book money.
They didn’t sell their big South American asset in the window even for the rumoured and inadequate agreed move-on fee.
They didn’t seem to make other inroads into their expenditures either.
So their moneymen and board have a few options not all mutually exclusive but all tricky enough to find a path through.
They need to talk and why not at Trump Turnberry while their credit is good.
They need to consider these (and maybe more)
1 Keep going and do nothing heading for the iceberg like before in 2011 /2012 (accepting that chaos is manageable when you are the much needed establishment club).
2 Squeeze their current directors and fans group even more to buy more confetti shares with the real threat of option 1 being the alternative.
3 Find new money from new directors (maybe even at the extreme end a trade sale with a new owner coming in to save the day)
4 Agree new commercial loans like the loan from Close Bros or another similar friendly loan shark in a suit.
5 Consider a pre-pack with the blessing of the authorities (and all the complicities that involves) – because it really is everybody else’s fault.
And it all comes back to cash because every month in the real world they have wages and bills to pay and not enough income to pay their current outgoings.
Whatever the Rangers board agree they will need their support to be on side.
All the victimhood stuff is making sense.
A few people are now dismissing the translated subtitles on the skysports interview with Morelos . This shouldn't be difficult to prove. If SkySports Scotland are literally putting words in his mouth then I would expect Celtic to throw the book at them for making false allegations. It would have been incredibly stupid not to think someone out there could translate Spanish efficiently , it may come down to the level of desperation to deflect .
Regarding the cash required to see out the season.
Could a Hong Kong, or other consortium lend the money "secured" on El Duffalo???
If they, (TRFC and consortium) agree to a base value of £10 million and a loan provided for this amount, with a summer sale meeting the repayment. Any surplus e.g. £5 million if he is sold for £15 million, to be the reward for the risk taken, or even potentially split between the two parties.
Unusual scenario but nothing this club does would surprise me.
Before people lend money they want to be assured of the quality of the asset the loan is based on . In this instance they would want to assure themselves that there is no release clause if a set amount is offered . According to his agent there is and the price isn't very high . There is also the possibility of a loss of form or an injury that would reduce the valuation . This is also a legal minefield as it then involves dual or multiple claims of ownership of his contract so I would say the possibility of raising funds in this manner are unlikely. To date no offers have been received unless you believe the verbal offer of 20m from Beijing story that a BBC journalist claimed to have seen written evidence of. The opportunity to raise capital from players has passed until the summer transfer window opens .
jimbo 4th February 2020 at 00:44
EJ if you are still on. I was telling AJ that I was with my Jambo pal a few days ago. I mentioned that the new stand at Tynecastle looked pretty good. He went off on a rant! Costs spiralled out of control from £12m to £24 apparently. And it’s still not finished. He reckoned AB was instrumental in the joinery work being awarded to friend or family company and was a major factor in delays etc. I think there was much more to it than that.
My point to him was this. Major building and civil engineering works are guesswork. Fixed Price Contracts are the exception rather than the rule for that reason. Pricing the cost of a ‘Pre-Fab’ housing scheme would be easy. Most others are not. So they opt for ‘Cost Plus’ contracts.
==================================
There are a number of people who share the same concerns as your "Jambo pal", including myself.
The original budget for the Tynecastle redevelopment program was £11m, with a £1m contingency (the project involved more than just the stand). That £12m was quoted by Ann Budge at the club's AGM in December 2016. The budget went up to £15m a year later (it was meant to have been completed by then). The following year the figure was £20.7m. The club didn't announce a figure at the last AGM in December 2019, but you could work out that the spend to date was £21.6m (with the fit out of the second floor still to be completed). I personally asked Ann Budge at the AGM how much it would take to complete the fit out. She advised £1.5m, so that will take the total up to at least £23.1m.
We are all acutely aware that budgets and final prices can vary enormously, but a project that was meant to be completed within a year has now reached 4 years and is still incomplete. You would have thought that within that first year you would now have a proper handle on the price and time scales. There has been nothing from Ann Budge to explain the cost overrun, other that to say that she has improved the spec on some items and added other items to the project. There has been no admission that they got anything wrong, although it is known that some things in the original spec have been dropped or replaced by a lower cost option. There were also changes to key personnel during the project. Mistakes were made, such as the club failing to order the seats. Why the "club" should be ordering stuff in a project of that nature is beyond me. I think the club probably thought it was doing it on the cheap by taking on some of the project management itself.
The club was poorly advised about costs and timescales from the off and has contributed to the project's mismanagement itself.
On the budget side, the escalating cost of the development has only been met form donations from benefactors amounting to at least £6.75m (originally £3m). Additional funds have come from the club's own resources, estimated at £7.7m (originally £3m), which has restricted spending in other areas including the first team, plus a loan facility from Ann Budge herself.
It will probably take at least another couple of years to raise any further funds required and pay off Ann Budge, during which the spending of the team will continue to be compromised.
Your pal's concern about contracts being awarded to family members is also valid and shared by myself. The main fit-out works were awarded, we are told "by structured tender", to Ann Budge's brother's company. However, I know from someone working in a senior role in the project, that some of the works did not go through a tender process because of time constraints. Fair enough if the tender process was transparent and fair, but £6.1m has been paid to his company to date. A check on his accounts at Companies House suggest that he has never undertaken anything on this scale before. Now, it may be that the club has received good value from the contract, but there is no way of knowing whether or not that is true. The upshot, is that suspicions remain that the contract was awarded because of who it was, rather than on a best for the club basis.
That's my rant over.
'Timtim 4th February 2020 at 11:19
…The opportunity to raise capital from players has passed until the summer transfer window opens.'
####################################
Plenty of transfer windows still open worldwide according to the FIFA list:
https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/transfer-window-calendar.pdf?cloudid=jdhfjn1zhxbwezpl5fzc
There's still hope!
https://thecelticstar.com/disgraceful-manipulation-sky-sports-accused-of-a-completely-invented-translation/#.XjlUk3cjlNQ.twitter
A link to the allegations of the mistranslation.
Good rant EJ , where there's money there's corruption and nepotism is rarely the most effective business model
Fair point Jingso , who knows , the Bhutanese Premiera may yet ride to the rescue. ( I did say on twitter to prepare for a late flurry of interest from Russia and China) I will change from opportunity passed to chances are now very slim.
If anyone is waiting for the podcast from last night's Sportsound, here is a youtube clip of the relevant bits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=KZEZXkr9OiM&feature=emb_logo
EJ, thanks for that reply. Andy (my pal) is an honest and clever man but I thought he might have been over-egging it a bit because of his emotional ties to Hearts. But it would seem not!
The whole thing should have been project managed with the club just looking over their shoulders in terms of costs and timescales etc. Club executives should be at arms length, they don’t have the expertise. Celtic suffer from the same problem with PL acting like a Director of Football. There are many other issues he should be dealing with. Like at Hampden.
The "podcast" issue seems to be escalating. The BBC still haven't put it up. The Daily Record has complained to the BBC that Michael Stewart was wrong in his assertion that the paper ran the brake tampering story. That could be the reason for the non publication, unless Rangers themselves have made a similar request.
I suspect MS might be in receipt of a lawyer's letter before too long, or perhaps suspended by the BBC pending further investigations.
To add further fuel to the fire, Graham Spiers has added his tuppenceworth.
Graham Spiers@GrahamSpiers1h
What Rangers FC could do with a young, modern, creative PR guru instead of an old blowhard 40 years in the business harbouring deep-seated grudges against sections of the media. A disaster.
Sorry EJ, I meant to add, the Club should have employed a Quantity Surveyor on a consultancy basis to act on their behalf to watch over costs and contract obligations.
I wondered about that myself when Michael Stewart mentioned the Record. I thought it was the Scottish Sun.
I'm wondering with the Michael Stewart outburst and now Spiers, is the tide turning against traynor? if so, not before time in my opinion
'easyJambo 4th February 2020 at 12:30
….The Daily Record has complained to the BBC that Michael Stewart was wrong in his assertion that the paper ran the brake tampering story…'
#########################
As an aside to the above; the Daily Record has a piece timed at 2150 yesterday which states that Morelos has told a Colombian radio station that he thought, 'the person was trying to sabotage his car by tampering with the brakes':
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-alfredo-morelos-claims-my-21423944
I don't know if that radio interview has been referenced by any other blatt.
easyJambo 3rd February 2020 at 23:52 David Low@Heavidor3h Four of us unrepentant types down here @ the Turnberry Hotel restaurant when in walk the RIFC board for a strategy meeting; sat down at the table next, looked up, stood up and left. Funny as ………. couldn’t make it up ======================= Decisions, decisions, decisions to be made , but not in the present company, thanks!
__________
Not so surprising that the TRFC board walked out on noticing a well know Celtic man, much more surprising that the TRFC board members should find it necessary to hold a meeting (or something that DL's presence caused them so much concern) in such a public, but not so public as to be anonymous, place. Could they possibly be discussing something so serious that they are afraid to be overheard by the Ibrox mole? (If, indeed, one does exist.)
I'm genuinely bemused by the need in the first place to hold a board meeting (or a meeting of board members) so far from the boardroom, while, at the same time, holding it in such a public (ok, not available to Joe Public) place, where not only fellow diners but ever nosey waiters are there to hang onto every juicy word uttered.
Are the ears on Ibrox walls so big and sensitive?
Allyjambo 4th February 2020 at 16:06:
Even stranger when you consider that Trump Turnberry can offer private dining facilities (the Trump Boardroom) for up to ten people.
Then again, perhaps their Christmas vouchers weren't valid for that option!
Here's the view of a journalist who covers South American football. I assume he is fluent in Spanish.
Simon Edwards@SimonEdwardsSAF
South American football journalist. Colombia expert for @WorldFootballi Copa Libertadores & South American Football Show. Luxury #10, Paisa chiviado, Mono.
Simon Edwards@SimonEdwardsSAF
What Morelos actually says in this interview:
"There have been a lot of racist gestures towards me. Including in Aberdeen with my mum, she was with me & they threw coins, threw everything. Sometimes when I celebrate goals in away games"
"But no, I am a person who moves forward. Who doesn't stop… who doesn't pay much attention because the truth is it is my work and it's my passion to score goals and I know the others fans won't like that".
"Are you ever worried about your safety?"
"I don't know what they wanted to do, I don't know what they are going to do. They hadn't done what they wanted. If I hadn't noticed that the kid was under the car I don't know what could have happened"
In the interview he doesn’t once mention Celtic specifically but rather points to the racism & abuse he has received from away fans during his time in Scotland In passing he mentions one incident where his mother was in the ground playing against Aberdeen
Despite never once mentioning Celtic in the interview, every article has taken the inaccurate translation and lead with ‘Morelos slams racist Celtic’. The racist incidents are serious and it needs to be reported but this is a complete distortion of what was said or intended.
A wee thought on Turnberrygate.
While it might be interesting to know which RIFC/TRFC board members were present, it would be even more interesting to know which board members were missing (DK obviously).
Oh, does anyone know if a rather portly PR man was seen at the restaurant door instructing those staunchest of the staunch to leave? You know, just as an early era TRFC manager was unceremoniously hauled (metaphorically speaking) from an Ibrox press conference!
I suspect it's a close one, but would I be wrong to suggest that using racism as a slur against a person, business or football supporters is in the same ball park as those who would shout out those vile racist remarks? I'm not in any way downplaying the disgusting behaviour of racists, whether within football or society as a whole, but rather questioning the morality of those ever ready to use it to stigmatize sections of society they view as not their own.
Anyone got access to a copy of Saturday's Daily Record (I know, I know).
Jim Craig asked me to buy a copy and scan his column, but I forgot. He's in NZ right now so cant get it himself
Now Celtic has their say in a spat with Sky Sports translation.
http://www.celticfc.net/news/17492
The article starts:
Sky Sports have apparently now taken the Morelos interview down from their website. Celtic’s call for clarification raises really serious issues. It is fair to assume Celtic have employed a language expert to get a translation of what Morelos said. If Sky have deliberately put comments up on the subtitles Morelos did not actually say then where on earth does that leave them as a broadcaster, and who was responsible for it?
upthehoops 4th February 2020 at 18:41
============================
The Daily Record has put up a full translation and compared it to what Sky put up in its subtitles.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-rangers-star-alfredo-morelos-21428201.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Big Pink
I have a copy of Jim's article (the wife buys 'The Ha'penny Liar' on a Saturday for the crossword – honest boss!), but I wouldn't know how to get it to you!
Bect67
If you can take a photo of it send it to bigpink@sfm.scot?
easyJambo 4th February 2020 at 18:45
———————————————–
The difference in what the Daily Record translation says compared to what Sky said is significant. Did Sky simply accept a 'translation' from someone???????
So BBC Sportsound starts with an apology to Jim Traynor! Heaven help us. Then go on to discuss at length the pundits anguish at LG not getting a retrospective red card.
What about the huge media story that Sky are up to their necks in it? Sky have had to pull the dishonestly presented interview with Morelos. Bearing in mind that accusations of racist stuff against Morelos by Celtic fans was a hot topic last night, words fail me.
Not deemed to be newsworthy? Not worth a comment or two?
Having just listened to the Sportsound audio above;
the fact that the PR person himself is the focus – rather than his Client’s business – tells you all you need to know about his PR management skills, IMO.
Karma would be a large bloke falling on his Gladius…!
The sad thing is Traynor will be loving this. There’s no such thing as bad publicity etc.
And here’s me contributing to it!
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1224419268575612930/pu/vid/1280×720/uqYRYpakIu9OwMGv.mp4?tag=10
Tony that sounds like a more honest interpretation!
jmbo
lol,my mate sent me it
Michael Stewart
@mstewart_23
Impossible to thank everyone who has been in touch today, it’s been incredible the variety of people who’ve been in contact, but I appreciate every word of support and encouragement. I’ll keep saying it as I see it 1/2
Michael Stewart
@mstewart_23
Imposible agradecer a todos los que han estado en contacto hoy, ha sido increíble la variedad de personas que han estado en contacto, pero agradezco cada palabra de apoyo y aliento. Seguiré diciéndolo tal como lo veo. 2/2
top trolling
Knicked from reddit
Daily Record – New twist in Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos' interview scandal as Sky distance themselves from translation
u/sjekky10m
Another surprising twist! I wonder who it was that controlled the translation and subtitling of an interview with Rangers star player by a Rangers supporting journalist in Rangers training complex. We'll just have to hope that story comes out down the line!
From the BBC:
"On this occasion we did not adhere to our editorial values and standards and we have reminded those concerned of their responsibility to follow our guidelines while working for the BBC."
I would simply say that BBC radio Scotland in relation to the death of Rangers FC of 1872 has insistently and consistently fostered and propagated the absurd Lie created by the lying Governance body of Scottish Football; and therefore has the editorial values and standards of a Josef Goebbels.
Like the creature to whom they now apologise, they initially spoke Truth: but when pressure was applied or personal advantage beckoned they sold their souls like the vilest turncoats in history.
And have for seven years supported and propagated the most risible untruth that RFC of 1872 did not cease to exist as a football club eligible to play in Scottish professional (or even amateur!) football.
The rot , of course, is at the top.
Everyday programme presenters are small fry obeying orders ( as thousands of Nazis claimed as their defence-didn't make them good persons, and it does not make the everyday programme producers and presenters 'good persons' but , in my opinion, moral cowards.
It's the big bad moral Quislings at the top of the BBC in Scotland that should be hunted out: the ones who did not have the courage to stand up to the bloody nonsense they got from the now defunct Editorial Board, and who now like Nazi gauleiters collaborate in the lying propaganda and make their underlings do the same.
My contempt for such knows no depths, and no bounds.
And I cast their hypocritical cant about editorial values and standards back in their lying faces.
To think we pay their wages!
I have my doubts that Sky produced either the Morelos interview or the translation, the whole thing seems quite amateurish, and note that PMGB has heard that it was given to Sky by Morelos' agent.
It doesn't seem to me to be something an agent would put together, either, off his own bat as it serves no purpose in that it hardly increases his client's standing or value. It's more like something either put together by TRFC or by someone acting, or thinking he was acting, on their behalf, then given to Morelos' agent to pass to Sky. Plus, of course, he's wearing his TRFC t-shirt and it looks like it's been recorded at Auchenhowie, so certainly it's been given the club's OK (I nearly said 'blessing'
).
In truth, the dodgy translation, itself, doesn't make Morelos appear any better a person, or better footballer, than the more accurate one and I can't imagine what the agent could gain by such an obvious misinterpretation. Did the person, people or company that put it together not realise that there are people out there who can speak both Spanish and English perfectly?
Regardless of whose cock up this is it appears Morelos is being used in some game he is probably not aware he is participating in. That's two rather extreme PR disasters in less than a week, one that involved a situation that would have been better, for Morelos, to have been kept quiet, and another straight out of Comedy Central.
If TRFC did comedy…they'd still be losing money
tony 4th February 2020 at 23:13
'…I wonder who it was that controlled the translation and subtitling of an interview with Rangers star player by a Rangers supporting journalist in Rangers training complex. '
++++++++++++++
That question reminded me of Caroline Aherne's famous question to Debbie McGee, Paul Daniel's partner: " So what attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/caroline-aherne-dead-mrs-merton-debbie-mcgee-what-attracted-you-to-millionaire-paul-daniels-a7115801.html
The answer was/is kind of obvious!
'Allyjambo 4th February 2020 at 23:26
'..Regardless of whose cock up this is …'
+++++++++++++
As you say, Allyjambo, TRFC PR has been well and truly shafted!
Oops, am I dyslexic? Word order can be a problem.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51368596
Coincidence or what? But the BBC, those bastions of truth, are running a story that starts –
'Rangers manager Steven Gerrard hopes the racial slurs Alfredo Morelos says he has been subjected to will not drive the striker out of Scottish football.'
and goes on at some length about poor Morelos and his claims of racist insults – obviously from supporters of every team (but by insinuation Celtic supporters) bar TRFC, who are, of course, the good guys when it comes to racism.
Does anyone else feel this is beginning to look like a pre-conceived, concerted campaign to make TRFC look better/innocent in comparison with other clubs' supporters and one club's supporters in particular? Pre-conceived and concerted, maybe, but not at all planned well!
If TRFC did bogitry and racism…Oh wait!
The interview was carried out by Craig Slater a Sky Sports reporter. Regardless of who did the actual subtitling it was in the hands of Sky, it was their responsibility. Whether an employee or someone brought in, it’s their baby. They broadcast it with their name on it. The bigger question is WHY? What was the agenda? Who’s agenda?
That was not a poor translation. That was mischief making to put it mildly.
The Evening Times has a rather controversial headline based on what is now being shown to be a badly translated interview.
Racists 0 Morelos 1.
Another statement from Celtic on the cards perhaps? I’m anticipating a whole new batch of court cases emanating from this mess. No need to reference the common denominator here.
John Clark
I think we all know, that's a couple of pr disasters lately, I think it's time for a so called pr guru to be relieved of his duties
Is that the throat cutting actions now forgot about as everyone focuses on the dodgy translation now? Job done it would appear
The bottom line is that Sky are responsible for what gets broadcast on Sky , saying that I would be surprised if they were responsible for this blatant smear attempt . Does his agent have access to editing facilities or ability to add subtitles ? I think it more likely that someone involved in Rangers* PR Dept with access to facilities at say Rangers* TV could have prepared the video then handed it to an unsuspecting SkySports producer for airing. Traynor isn't the type to retire quietly into the night , and the band played on……….
Timtim
The guy at sky will end up being the fall guy for not checking and going on trust, he won't do that again
I have seen poor translations in the past. They are usually humorous, using slightly the wrong words but we know what they mean. That wasn't the case here. That translation was total fabrication in parts.
Allyjambo 4th February 2020 at 23:51
‘..Does anyone else feel this is beginning to look like a pre-conceived, concerted campaign to make TRFC look better/innocent in comparison with other clubs’ supporters and one club’s supporters in particular? ‘
I remember asking in a post a year or three/four/five years ago whether there was any journalistic sports reporting and analysis course in any of our universities or other academic institutions.
Answer was there none.
Our sports journalists are just like putty in the hands of those who give them some handout, which they faithfully reproduce in their ‘copy’, without any kind of questioning or hard analysis of what they are told.
Puff- puff PR stuff , for which they do no real journalism, but for which they get paid by the column inch ( or the modern day equivalent).
Betrayers of the essence of true journalism.
The bast..ds!
I have read several times on social media that the Morelos interview, and how it was translated was a 'PR disaster'. However, as we all know a lie can fly round the world twice before the truth gets out of bed. As far as many observers will still be concerned, Morelos suffered racist abuse as he left the pitch at Celtic Park on 29th December, and that has been the line getting pushed since a couple of days after the game. The BBC Scotland website makes no reference to the false translation of the interview, but has a big story about the Rangers Manager talking about the racial abuse Morelos gets, and how big a problem it is in Scotland. I am not saying for one minute there is no racial abuse dished out at football games in Scotland, but as yet there has been no evidence of any against Morelos, other than the line continually pushed by his club. This is a club of course who have had action taken against them this season by UEFA because of racist chanting by their fans.
In my view the tactics being employed by whoever is behind this latest issue work big style, and many casual observers will still believe Morelos suffers sustained racial abuse, and in particular at the game on the 29th. When the national broadcaster would rather issue an apology rather than even mention that the interview in question has seemingly been doctored we are in a very bad place. Unless Celtic are willing to take this inside a court it won't stop in my view.
With deflection shields in overdrive it’s easy for The Rangers fans to forget that their team dropped 5 points out of 6 in a week. This doesn’t by itself hand the league title to Celtic but certainly shows up the weaknesses in the The Rangers first team squad which is directly related to a shortage of funds. On a slightly different note I see that Andy Jackson (Hearts fan) is under fire on Twitter because he pointed out the bleedin’ obvious about Lambogate and the car crash interview.
On Monday an event of huge Scottish and UK significance happened.
I’m not referring to Michael Stewart being honest on the Radio Shortbread evening filler football debate.
No I’m referring to the cynical Trumpian decision by Boris and Dominic to exclude some left wing titles from a special press briefing.
I’ve since read that there was a righteous reaction and that the good southern based journalists like Laura Kuenssberg staged a walk out in protest.
You’d think that that would be news and we’d hear about it.
But no it seems to have been a non story to those who dictate what we get to hear about.
Well yesterday it was granddaughter day with a walk along the front into Leith to our favourite wee cafe with the best bacon rolls in the world.
As we sat down baby was asleep and I picked up the coffee shop’s copy of The Scottish Sun as some guy in a suit and tie had already picked up the local rag and it was a Hobson’s Choice of The Sun or nothing.
The paper was right behind the story …
It was easy to see the front page and inside DPS were coordinated and shouting with words leaping off the pages.
Was it righteous indignation about our journalists being kept out of a briefing at No 10 and the implications for Scotland?
No it was about The Sun’s take on a third party and as we now know hugely inaccurate translation of an interview with Scottish Football’s South American striker.
The Scottish Sun editor had really put his journalistic weight behind this huge and as he saw it a very necessary story.
Front page headline was “Alfie My Racism Hatred
Inside DPS was a few heads including Alfie’s anger at Sicko fans insults
But as wee Jimmy Cricket used to say – “Wait there’s more”…
The huge story also spilled into the sports pages first onto the back page “I was just telling hate mob the game was over” and the inside back page spread too with “Ref’s don’t treat me like other players”.
So 5 pages in the biggest selling Scottish and UK tabloid on a story based first on inaccurate translation and then enhanced and flavoured by inherent bias and a drive to attract a particular audience and fill space that could have criticised Boris and his cabal.
The most read and therefore important 5 pages in a title that is owned by a billionaire who doesn’t live in the UK and who doesn’t pay UK taxes.
5 pages of utter diatribe from named “journalists” who must know what they are doing is a charade.
My take on it all is we live in a society where truth is not always welcomed and where the media is manipulative to get particular messages across.
We know that because of how the media wagons have circled since the demise of Sir David.
This is a football blog so I won’t dwell on the ethics of Boris and Dominic deciding only on briefing and working with complicit media titles but this trend has been the reality in Scottish Football for years.
It is going to get worse in this era of post truth and truths.
We have never more needed the Michael Stewarts, Jim Spences and John Clarks of this world.
Finloch
Part of the reason social media outlets are taking over from the print media is that the costly news gathering activity of the press has been replaced by cut’n’paste drivel from PR and succulent opinion.
We are not a match for the news gathering capacity of old, but we at least tregard the spin doctors sceptically and often intelligently. And of course we are equally (at least) qualified to express our opinions.
Ultimately, cost cutting on their core activity, and lowering the bar for entry to journalism ( also to cut costs) has done for the print media. Only a matter of time now.
As I asked previously , is there not a potential UEFA charge for racist chanting by TRFC fans in Porto to be considered in February , deferred as it happened only a week before a sold-out game at Ibrox ? Maybe trying to show the behaviour is the norm in Scotland ? And I think Morelos is refereed differently from other players in Scotland – he gets more latitude than Scott Brown .
Big Pink 5th February 2020 at 08:39
Finloch
Part of the reason social media outlets are taking over from the print media is that the costly news gathering activity of the press has been replaced by cut’n’paste drivel from PR and succulent opinion.
We are not a match for the news gathering capacity of old, but we at least tregard the spin doctors sceptically and often intelligently. And of course we are equally (at least) qualified to express our opinions.
Ultimately, cost cutting on their core activity, and lowering the bar for entry to journalism ( also to cut costs) has done for the print media. Only a matter of time now.
_________________
I think you are being way too kind on the media, BP. There is far more at play in their selective reporting than costs or incompetency/copy and paste. They are deliberately ignoring massive stories that would be easy and cheap to cover purely because it does not suit the owners of the various media outlets to have such truths exposed to the general public. Covering sport, pop music and banal beyond belief 'celebrities' is used to fill pages that should be full of the wrongdoings being perpetrated against us all, or, at least, against those of us not rich enough to enjoy the advantages of offshore accounts.
The media moguls, including the BBC, have their man/men in Downing Street, and they intend to keep him/them there to protect their own selfish interests – for ever if they can. Similarly, their minions/representatives in Scotland have their football club chasing it's first major title, and they are going to publish/not publish whatever they think will help/hinder that club fulfil their joint dream.
This is, of course, not a political blog, but I find it impossible to ignore the more serious one sided symbiotic relationships of the media within politics as well as within Scottish football. In some ways the similarity of the media coverage of the Rangers Saga and UK politics of the past few years makes me think the media used the cheating, dishonesty and collapse of Rangers, with the subsequent emergence of TRFC, as a testing ground for their plans to get their man into power. Sadly, it worked.
PS I enjoyed Finloch's original post on the subject, and agree with what he says in it.
I've just listened to the BBC's Sportsound intro last night when James Traynor was given an apology on the basis the previous night's discussion "was not fair and balanced" and didn't give Mr Traynor "an opportunity to respond".
Having listened to the previous night's discussion (without the help of the BBC) I can only concur that it was not fair and balanced. On one side we heard Michael Stewart telling the truth and on the other side we heard Kenny McIntyre and Darryl 'I Used To Be The SFA' Broadfoot blustering and deflecting. To be fair and balanced there should have been at least one more contributor telling the truth.
So far as being given an apology for being the subject of discussion without being given "an opportunity to respond" is concerned I'm confused.
I'm fairly sure that after the apology to a pillar of society whose reputation and public standing might be lowered there was a discussion which did not include "Well, Leigh, we say you're Guilty of Common Law Assault and the SFA are wrong not to hammer you. This is your opportunity to respond. If we didn't give you this opportunity it wouldn't be fair or balanced." Or can we expect an apology tonight in exactly the same words with the name Traynor being replaced by Griffiths? If not why not?
I don't pretend to understand how PR works but it's certainly made me totally forget all about how one club goes about its business. I don't remember a translation of an interview which cast fans as racists. Or press reports that someone tried to get under a car for sabotage purposes (by the reporting Police Scotland might want a word with Hen Broon; last known address Glebe Street). Or press reports that if anything was being sabotaged it was a marriage. Or the Manager of a club which has already been sanctioned (and still has cases outstanding?) for racism lecturing us that racism is A Bad Thing. Or a club Statement five weeks ago alleging racism which has been followed by zero evidence. Or two players playing Give Us A Clue; one miming a headshot and the other miming throatslitting. Or Court actions where the only constant is one club's bad faith. Or…I can't remember how many things I can't remember.
Some might think it's not fair and balanced but so long as they keep telling lies about us we'll keep telling the truth about them.
The BBC are reporting FOH are to become the majority shareholder in their club in April of this year. The fans actions and success in safeguarding Heart of Midlothian F.C.from any future exploitation is to be appluaded and envied.I did think I read on the blog earlier from either EJ or ALLY that there were some reservations to be had with regard to the leadership of the club after Ann Budge steps down. Would appreciate a quick catch up on Hearts fans thoughts on this if possible.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51383726
'Not fair and balanced'. Is that not a phrase the BBC have used before to ensure the 'Rangers' point of view is never challenged? I'm sure it will have been used (though not necessarily publicly) many times but the one that sticks out in my mind most is the time the late Paul McConville was invited onto BBC Radio Scotland to discuss things 'Rangers' and his invite was cancelled because the Real Rangers Man he was to debate with was suddenly unavailable (chickened out in reality). They cancelled his invite, according to them, because it would not now be a 'fair and balanced' discussion – and he was never invited on again. And yet, to this day, BBC Scotland is more than happy to fill its studios with ex-Rangers players and current supporters as was evident even in the broadcast in question.
Balance at BBC Scotland clearly means 'many more Rangers men present than all other clubs put together'.
While I very much doubt BBC Scotland are in any way concerned to keep things 'fair and balanced' where Scottish football is concerned, I'm pretty certain the following excerpt from their statement is genuine.
"On this occasion we did not adhere to our editorial values and standards and we have reminded those concerned of their responsibility to follow our guidelines while working for the BBC."
The question remains, though, what are these 'editorial values and standards' and 'guidelines' that seem to favour one club, and one club only, as Lugosi has so ably demonstrated above?
It's very much the case that what's good for the goose is good for the gander at BBC Scotland – where the goose = 'Rangers' of the day and the gander = BBC Scotland.
I’m really confused now. Is that the same BBC who are banned sine die from Ibrox and it’s environs and who are now falling over themselves to apologise for someone telling the truth on one of their (BBC) programmes?
In previous posts the link between The Sun and the establishment was highlighted. It’s just a coincidence I’m sure, that The Sun and SKY are owned by the same people.
Finloch 5th February 2020 at 08:29
'..we live in a society where truth is not always welcomed and where the media is manipulative to get particular messages across.
We know that because of how the media wagons have circled since the demise of Sir David.'
+++++++++++++++++
'The Scotsman' , Finloch, has an editorial this morning with the headline "Government cannot blacklist journalists"
The last paragraph of it reads:
" And it is a challenge to the freedom of the press that journalists must stand against. The alternative is to take an immoral, dishonest path towards providing increasingly obsequious coverage in the hope of avoiding being added to the blacklist"
What else, I ask the author of the editorial, has the SMSM been doing in the matter of Scottish football reporting other "take an immoral, dishonest path towards providing increasingly obsequious coverage" of the worst act of sports governance cheating Scottish Football has experienced by not only failing to denounce the 5-Way Agreement and the liars and cheats who were party to that but positively supporting and propagating on a daily basis the myth those wicked men created?
I suggest that the nameless author of that 'Editorial' is expressing nothing other than canting hypocrisy when he speaks of the British main-stream media sending a message to Government that it "will not collude in populist " tactics. There's not a newspaper in Scotland that tells the truth, the actual factual truth that the Rangers FC of 1872 died, and that TRFC is new kid on the block , with no sporting history of its own going back further than 2012.
Collusion in populism?
Unquestionably.
You have to laugh.
Whilst the print media is racing to the gutter with ultra-dumbed down content,
the BBC seems to regard itself as a bastion of truth in global media.
But, it's just the same as the other MSM outlets – just bigger, costlier and with a guaranteed income stream.
And we have all observed how cowardly the BBC in Scotland has covered mere football since 2012, in particular.
The reaction to Michael Stewart is simply another reason to mistrust the BBC… in a long list of more significant reasons to mistrust the State broadcaster.
AJ/EJ …..or anyone else.
I heard something in Edinburgh today regarding the new stand at Tynecastle.
Do either of you know if this is true?
It was mentioned to me today that although the stand belongs to Hearts, the corporate suites
will in some context "belong" to Ann Budge either in part or entirely.
????????
hs
https://www.channel4.com/news/by/alex-thomson/blogs/succulent-lamb-rack
Plus ça change. From 2013.
gunnerb 5th February 2020 at 12:19
The BBC are reporting FOH are to become the majority shareholder in their club in April of this year. The fans actions and success in safeguarding Heart of Midlothian F.C.from any future exploitation is to be appluaded and envied.I did think I read on the blog earlier from either EJ or ALLY that there were some reservations to be had with regard to the leadership of the club after Ann Budge steps down. Would appreciate a quick catch up on Hearts fans thoughts on this if possible.
===================================
As far as we know Ann Budge will not be stepping down in the immediate future. Personally, I expect her to stay on as Chairman or CEO or both, for another year.
I think most fans are comfortable with the proposed future structure, going by the overwhelming vote at the FOH AGM on the future governance arrangements for both FOH and the Club.
I am probably unrepresentative of the average fan in that I have expressed reservations about a number of governance issues, not least, the future structure of FOH re the ownership of the club, their membership model, no control over the future use of pledgers funds by the club, the lack of a cap on FOH's internal spending, a "hands off" relationship with the club rather than an arms length arrangement, the absence of a fans voice (FOH will not comment on football matters), a super majority voting requirement over key decisions like the sale of shares or Tynecastle. My concerns have largely been rejected by FOH's governance working party, but that was their choice and their recommendations have the support of a majority of the members.
Basically it will be business as usual for the club. FOH will retain their two places on the Club Board. The club will continue to operate independently of FOH, although welcoming the £1.4m in cash donations from FOH each year.
Ann Budge has surrounded herself by people she trusts or that she knows from her business days. It has proved to be both a strength and a weakness. She has certainly made a difference in the club's off field activities, but her excessive loyalty to Craig Levein has seen the club's on field performance deteriorate in successive years, from 3rd in 2016, to 5th, 6th, 6th and currently 11th. Those failings have resulted in a growing but vocal minority hoping that she will go sooner rather than later.
Once FOH takes over as majority shareholder, Ann Budge will retain a residual holding of approx 17.4%. I expect that she will use that stake to ensure that her interests are protected and that she will continue to influence the appointments to the Club Board once she finally steps down.
To date, FOH has handed over £9.45m since May 2014, made up of £2.4m to repay Ann Budge's loan, £1m to repay Ann Budge's professional costs and football creditors from the CVA, £3m towards the stadium redevelopment and £3.05M in working capital. All future funds raised will be spent at the discretion of the club and as such should be considered additional working capital.
It appears that the Morelos Sky Sports interview and the subtitles accompanying it were supplied by TRFC. Given the nature of the lies in the "mistranslation" and the attempt to smear ALL Scottish clubs with the charge of racism should there not now be a complaint to the SFA against TRFC for failing to act in good faith toward other clubs?
I believe there is a specific disciplinary section dealing with not acting in good faith toward other clubs and the penalties, if found guilty, can be severe. (JC will know more)
It's a serious charge but surely there comes a point when ALL clubs, not just Celtic, need to stand up to the bully and stop the game being dragged further into the gutter.
Celtic and Hamilton to face Scottish FA charge for not acting in 'orderly fashion'
53 minutes agoFrom the sectionScottish Premiership
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Alex Gogic and Leigh Griffiths clashed after the Celtic striker's tangle with Sam Woods
Alex Gogic and Leigh Griffiths clashed after the Celtic striker's tangle with Sam Woods
Celtic and Hamilton Academical will be charged by the Scottish FA for failing to act "in an orderly fashion" during Sunday's Scottish Premiership game.
It relates to a first-half incident when players from each team surrounded referee Nick Walsh after Leigh Griffiths stood on Accies' Sam Woods.
Celtic striker Griffiths and Hamilton defender Alex Gogic pushed each other after the challenge and were booked.
The clubs face a hearing at Hampden on 20 February.
Lennon backs Griffiths over challenge
'No debate Griffiths should have had red'
Celtic seven points clear after late goals
If found guilty, each could face a fine ranging from £2,500 to £20,000.
The clubs will be charged under disciplinary rule 204 which states players and staff must "conduct themselves in an orderly fashion at all times" and refrain from "confrontation" and "conduct likely to lead to or to exacerbate or prolong a hostile or argumentative situation".
Premiership leaders Celtic won the match 4-1 at Hamilton's Fountain of Youth Stadium, with Griffiths avoiding further punishment for his tangle with Woods, which happened when the game was goalless.
The Griffiths incident was referred by Scottish FA compliance offer Clare Whyte to a three-man panel of former referees, who did not agree it was a red-card offence.
Hamilton were later reduced to 10 men in the first half when Jamie Hamilton received a straight red for a last-man foul on Griffiths.
Bogs Dollox 5th February 2020 at 14:04
This. Without doubt, Bogs.
When Big Pink named this latest blog post I wonder if he knew just how prescient it was going to be! That these latest Ibrox mainly unsubstantiated claims/lies include all Scottish Premiership clubs (specifically at Celtic and Aberdeen) then all these clubs owe it to themselves, and their supporters, to insist on the most serious action being taken.
There can be absolutely no doubt that TRFC are trying to use racism to their own advantage. A disgusting action by any body, sporting or otherwise, but particularly so coming from one so steeped in its own particular brand of racism.
The question has to be asked; just how much can this club get away with? But they only get away with it because the media are 100% on their side, as the BBC has just proven.
Allyjambo 5th February 2020 at 12:22
Balance at BBC Scotland clearly means 'many more Rangers men present than all other clubs put together'.
—————————————————-
For every five men of honesty and integrity, we'll use ten unscrupulous revisionists???
tony 5th February 2020 at 14:20
—————————————–
Celtic has actually been cited on two similar charges, both of which will be heard on 20 February.
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/disciplinary/disciplinary-updates/
Charge 1:
Match: Partick Thistle FC v Celtic FC Date: Saturday 18 January 2020 Competition: Scottish Cup
Charge 2:
Match: Hamilton Academical FC v Celtic FC Date: Sunday 2 February 2020 Competition: Scottish Premiership
easyjambo
It's just getting ridiculous now, if celtic win this league the 10 in a row season will be crazy, I'm not paranoid enough
https://twitter.com/maroonajambo/status/1225113798639603712?s=21
Quelle surpris
Allyjambo 4th February 2020 at 23:26
I have my doubts that Sky produced either the Morelos interview or the translation, the whole thing seems quite amateurish, and note that PMGB has heard that it was given to Sky by Morelos' agent.
—————————————————-
I have no idea who was involved either Ally…..Honest !
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP9wnTaX4AMdWda?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP9O3f6XkAYyyyV?format=jpg&name=small
(time-stamped tweets lifted from ETims.)
Sky Sports News@SkySportsNews
Sky Sports News apologises for inaccuracies in Alfredo Morelos interview and publishes full, verified transcript
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11927058/alfredo-morelos-apology-correction-and-full-transcript-of-sky-sports-news-interview
EasyJambo@19.03
I wonder if The Sun will also print this? I’m not holding my breath.
So Sky apologise to Celtic AND Rangers for the Morelos interview translation, but don't explain who provided it. NOT good enough and the platform for more unsubstantiated poison to be released may well still exist.
…. and so it continues
Herald & Times Sport@HandTsport
Michael Stewart dropped by BBC after slamming Rangers chief Jim Traynor
https://glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/18213869.michael-stewart-dropped-bbc-jim-traynor-comments/
easyjambo
what a bitter wee shithole we live in
tony 5th February 2020 at 19:51
easyjambo what a bitter wee shithole we live in
======
Or,
what bitter wee sh!tes live in our country…
StevieBC
think there are more of them,or at least what they have seem to control the narrative
A bit OT
We spoke the other day about Ashley getting on board, and i was looking for something when i came across this.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1225182726640238593/photo/1
Sorry it’s a bit late in the run of the blog, but i just thought i may as well post incase anyone is keeping track.
Bogs Dollox 5th February 2020 at 14:04
'…I believe there is a specific disciplinary section dealing with not acting in good faith toward other clubs and the penalties, if found guilty, can be severe.'
++++++++++++++++
Yes, Bogs Dollox, there is:
Article 5.1 (b) of the Articles of Association of the SFA states
'All members shall be subject to and shall comply
(a) with these articles
(b) with the Judicial Panel protocol.'
Article 5.2 (f) states ' [all members shall] behave towards the SFA and other members with the utmost good faith'
And the Judicial Panel Protocol at Section 1.3 has 'Members and Associated Persons shall comply with the Disciplinary Rules'
and the very first Rule in the protocol , Rule 1(f) ' behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.'
If found guilty of breaching that Rule the penalty is
'£100,000 and/or ejection/exclusion from the Scottish Cup and/or any player registration restrictions and/or suspension and/or Termination of membership and/or any sanction or disposal not expressly provided above, provided that such other sanctions are sanctions listed in respect of Paragraph 11.5 of this Protocol.'
Hypothetically, would a Compliance Officer consider,say, that a malicious attempt by a PR creature hired by one SPFL club, to malign and blacken the good name of another club by arranging for a fable spouted by a player of the first club to be videoed and for the video to be sent to a TV broadcasting company,was in breach of Rule 1(f)?
I suspect that no rational person could view such a dirty trick as anything other than being in breach of Rule 1(f).
I also suspect that if such a dirty trick ever was perpetrated , it would be a brave Compliance Officer indeed who would raise a 'Complaint'.
I further suspect that any club on whom such a dirty trick had been played would also be ready to avoid taking action to have the club that employed the PR creature acting on its behalf cited in a complaint.
Particularly if it's a club that has already failed to denounce the dirty 5-Way agreement and has meekly accepted the possibility of having been ripped off a good few million quid by the club represented by the same PR creature!
easyJambo 5th February 2020 at 19:41
'..Michael Stewart dropped by BBC..'
+++++++++++++++++
I wonder will we see any of our SMSM people speaking up about 'freedom of speech' ?
No, I don't wonder at all: I know that they will all sit in dumb complicity as an honest man ,who tells it as it is ,is hung out to dry by a thoroughly rotten BBC Scotland administration, propagandists as that publicly funded organisation has been for lies and deceit for at least the last seven years.
Honest to God.! that we should be paying the defenders of lies and deceit housed in Pacific Quay!
John Clark 6th February 2020 at 00:09
===================
The Sportscene host, Kenny Macintyre, runs it like a Rangers fans Podcast in my view, and is a huge part of the problem. Have the BBC really changed since the days of 'Blue' Peter Thomson, who was once thrown out of Celtic Park by Jock Stein? Archie Macpherson has spoken often enough of the bias that existed. No doubt we were all paranoid then as well!
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/02/05/defending-the-incomprehensible/
The last paragraph sums up the whole sleazy mess that is the Scottish mainstream media.
I am sure, that regardless of whatever entity created the Morelos interview, it won't have been TRFC, whether they created it or not.
By that, I mean, either some small unimportant person/production company will take the rap, or Sky will take it as they will view their relationship with TRFC as being too important to themselves and so be happy to take the very limited (for a company their size) fallout, thus cementing their relationship into something even slimier*.
*I was going to write 'stickier' to go with 'cementing' but then thought 'slimier' describes such a relationship in a more accurate way.
https://www.docdroid.net/bqIKbAa/revista-sabado-6feb2020.pdf
Dodgy deals in Portugal. Can anyone recommend a good translator?
A further statement from Celtic and a complaint to OFCOM
http://www.celticfc.net/news/17507
The statement starts:
It goes on to reproduce the letter of complaint.
Now we know why the RIFC Board was at Turnberry the other day ……… to establish a connection with Donald Trump.
Rangers Football Club@RangersFC
#RangersFC are delighted to announce luxury Scottish resort @TrumpTurnberry will join the club’s growing family of partners.
Learn More: https://rng.rs/2Sm5Ahj
easyJambo
i can see a letter from mr clark heading to turnberry
Think I'll give Turnberry a miss for week-ends away now. I'll stick with Gleneagles!
easyJambo 6th February 2020 at 13:30
'..Now we know why the RIFC Board was at Turnberry the other day'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No more long weekends at Turnberry for me, then, and Porcini is off my Christmas card list.
Seriously, I note how cautiously worded Mr Porciani's statement is
"Turnberry and Rangers boast rich sporting legacies, each playing a significant role in the history of Scottish sport. Therefore, this felt like a natural partnership and an exciting way to kick off 2020."
As a cunning businessman he has left it to the reader to assume that he believes he is partnering with Rangers of 1872 rather than the new club called TRFC, so that he can avoid any accusation of lying to or misleading the public.
Maybe we will be entertained by the sight of oor Dave toadying to oor while caddying to someone so like himself.
Picture the scene in a court room somewhere in Scotland. The following characters are entirely fictional and any resemblance to actual persons is entirely coincidental.
JUDGE: The defender is accused of blackening the name of the Pursuer via publicly announced accusations of lying, bullying, manipulation and general skulduggery. How does he plead?
LAWYER1: Not guilty your honour.
JUDGE: Then what evidence does the Defender have to offer?
LAWYER1: The Pursuer has a well-documented history of lying. Indeed, his current occupation, just like his previous one, could accurately be described as ‘Purveyor of Untruths’.
JUDGE: Please provide the court with incontrovertible evidence of such lying and deceit.
LAWYER1: You will see from Document A before you that the Pursuer once stated as fact – “They’ll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended. No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died.”
A short time later, the Pursuer stated – “But why is it that so many continue to write or broadcast that this club is a new club when it is the owners who are new? Is it a lack of basic intelligence or is it something more sinister?”
I’m sure your honour will agree with me that the Pursuer was lying, as both statements can’t possibly be true.
JUDGE: Lawyer2?
LAWYER2: Your honour, the Pursuer wasn’t lying, the statement my client originally made was based on the information as it was known at that time.
LAWYER1: Indeed, so my client wasn’t lying either when he made disparaging comments about the Pursuer. He was simply reporting the information as it was known at that time and he will update that information as soon as the Pursuer proves his innocence, if that ever happens.
JUDGE: Case dismissed.
easyJambo 6th February 2020 at 13:30:
Perfect synergy, I’d say: an ideal stop-off for the supporters’ buses coming & going from the ferry at Cairnryan (‘Can we use your lavvies? WATP*!’), not to mention Turnberry’s 5 stars will match up with the 5 above TRFC’s crest.
(*WATP in this sense of course stands for ‘We Are Turnberry People!’)
Jingso.Jimsie
we are trumps poodles
Tony, I love Trump, he's a super snooker player!
A Roger Mitchell tweet is suggesting that the most recent Celtic statement and complaint to Ofcom might damage the SKY deal re Scottish football. I don’t believe SKY is the object of Celtic’s ire just a means to an end.
Ex Ludo 6th February 2020 at 16:34 A Roger Mitchell tweet is suggesting that the most recent Celtic statement and complaint to Ofcom might damage the SKY deal re Scottish football. I don’t believe SKY is the object of Celtic’s ire just a means to an end.
____________________
I wonder if Roger Mitchell is suggesting that Celtic are somehow harming Scottish football by doing the right thing. If he is, it's yet another example of the protection Rangers got, continue to get even after death, and that which TRFC have had since their inception from all areas of Scottish football – particularly from its own governance, including ex-members of its governance and the Scottish media.
'Operation baton down the hatches of the SS Ibrox' may well have started. That's 'Operation No. who knows how many?'
AllyJambo@16.56
I can’t copy the link to the tweet in question but it is subtly suggesting that Celtic are putting the TV deal at risk.
Ex Ludo
here's hoping it is,they are brutal
Ex Ludo 6th February 2020 at 16:34 A Roger Mitchell tweet is suggesting that the most recent Celtic statement and complaint to Ofcom might damage the SKY deal re Scottish football
========================
Roger Mitchell
@RPMComo
Btw, Peter does well here. He needs to throw his weight around. I’d expect that. Also because the tv is marginal for Celtic. I’m however sure the other clubs are rather uncomfortable just now. Mr Comcast will be asking “who are these people up there? Do we really need them?”
Sky TV deal at risk?
Wouldn’t that be awful?!
Once again,
Fiat justitia ruat caelum!
(see what I did there, in Latin!)
Don’t want to be a grass, but…
Just watched the goals from the The Rangers v. Hibs game last night,
and the Ibrox pitch looks dreadful!
Patchy, bobbly, with brown spots – and looking more like a well used, municipal grass pitch after a long season.
Has King got rid of the groundstaff…?
StevieBC
never looked the same since they got rid of lee wallace
Stevie BC, Do you remember the pitches at this time of the year in the 60s & 70s? Todays grass pitches are ten times better. Even at their worst I prefer them to those excuse of pitches in use by Kilmarnock, Hamilton and Livingston. Shameful pitches. Embaressing.
Grass pitches? Jimbo you were obviously spoiled!
It was always nasty, skin removing blaes pitches for me until well into amateur footy!
Still got the scars to prove it too…
TRFC are not exactly strangers to Turnberry of course. Ally McC took the players there one Friday night en route to Stranraer during the heady days of that unstoppable surge up through the divisions when money was no object
Stevie BC, LOL , but you get my point!
Scottc, I remember, and they wonder where the money went?
The superiority complex.
Blagged from the Bears Den – I assume it's properly translated .
Disciplinary Tribunal Update | Michael Beale, Team Staff, Rangers FC
Thursday 6 February 2020
Alleged Party in Breach: Michael Beale, Team Staff, Rangers FC
Match: celtic FC v Rangers FC
Date: Sunday 29 December 2019
Competition: Scottish Premiership
Disciplinary Rule allegedly breached: Disciplinary Rule 203 – No member of Team Staff shall commit Misconduct at a match.
Principal hearing date: Thursday 6 February 2020
Outcome: Suspension of 5 matches applied as follows: 3 matches immediate and 2 matches suspended until the End of Season 2019/20
Disciplinary Tribunal Update | Thomas Culshaw, Team Staff, Rangers FC
Thursday 6 February 2020
Alleged Party in Breach: Thomas Culshaw, Team Staff, Rangers FC
Match: Hibernian FC v Rangers FC
Date: Friday 20 December 2019
Competition: Scottish Premiership
Disciplinary Rule allegedly breached: Disciplinary Rule 203 – No member of Team Staff shall commit Misconduct at a match.
Principal hearing date: Thursday 6 February 2020
Outcome: Suspension of 2 matches applied as follows: 1 match immediate and 1 match suspended until the End of Season 2019/20
Update: Notice of Complaint | Rangers FC
Thursday 6 February 2020
Alleged Party in Breach: Rangers FC
Charge 1:
Match: Hibernian FC v Rangers FC
Date: Friday 20 December 2019
Competition: Scottish Premiership
Disciplinary Rule allegedly breached: Disciplinary Rule 204 – All Clubs and recognised football bodies shall procure that its officials, Team Staff, employees and players conduct themselves in an orderly fashion at all times during and/or after a match. In particular, Clubs and recognised football bodies are responsible for ensuring that its officials, Team Staff, employees and players refrain from any one or a combination of the following: (a) becoming involved in a confrontation (b) conduct that is likely to lead to or to exacerbate or prolong a hostile or argumentative situation with players and/or team staff from the opposing team and/or match officials (c) conduct that may otherwise incite disorder.
Charge 2:
Match: celtic FC v Rangers FC
Date: Sunday 29 December 2019
Competition: Scottish Premiership
Disciplinary Rule allegedly breached: Disciplinary Rule 204 – All Clubs and recognised football bodies shall procure that its officials, Team Staff, employees and players conduct themselves in an orderly fashion at all times during and/or after a match. In particular, Clubs and recognised football bodies are responsible for ensuring that its officials, Team Staff, employees and players refrain from any one or a combination of the following: (a) becoming involved in a confrontation (b) conduct that is likely to lead to or to exacerbate or prolong a hostile or argumentative situation with players and/or team staff from the opposing team and/or match officials (c) conduct that may otherwise incite disorder.
Principal hearing date: Thursday 6 February 2020 – adjourned to later date
James Doleman
@jamesdoleman
One is suspiciously Orange and is best known for never being out of court due to corruption charges. The other is the President of the United States.
on the turnberry link with trfc
SKY to be honest does not really give a toss about Scottish Football imo. This Morelos interview fiasco illustrates this as how is it possible to make such an (error). I cancelled in 2012 as Div 3 games were live on SKY (ffs really). I want SKY out of our game. I am glad that Celtic have not accepted this apology as the end of the matter. Who translated this and altered the words. Racism is a serious topic and the facts have to be correct. Morelos has been wrongly misquoted imo deliberately, so why. Why does Morelos not make a statement to this effect? Why does his club not make a statement to protect and support their player? ( as we all know they love making statements) Why does our smsm not report this issue? Why was the only pundit to question the issue and timing of the statement removed from BBC at present? Why listen to BBC Sportsound, they are governed by one man to the benefit of one club. He was cheerleader for RFC (IL) and now has same role at new Ibrox club. James Traynor like SKY has no interest in Scottish Football, unless it is all about his club. Scottish Football is corrupt thanks to people like him. More people like MS need to speak out.
“Alternative headline: Celtic attacking the sole future financier of Scottish football. Just to get the mob off their back. Poor Neil.”
Copied from Roger Mitchell’s latest tweet. “Future sole financier” really?
I wonder which mob he is referring to here. SFM?
Anyone else find it really strange that Rangers, Kings of the statement world, have said absolutely nothing about the false translation of the Morelos interview? The interview took place inside their training ground, involved their star player, and the translation has been proven to be untrue. You would think Rangers would want to distance themselves or anyone working on their behalf from this. You would also think they would be angry that their player was badly misrepresented. Instead we have silence, as well as silence from the main Scottish broadcast media outlets, BBC Scotland and STV, both of whom were very eager to promote the racism against Morelos story before this all kicked off.
Whatever the ins and outs of this the fact was that at the end of 2019 Rangers were in a great place, at least on the park. I have yet to speak to a Celtic fan who did not think Rangers deserved to win on the 29th and that the challenge was very real. Yet in the immediate aftermath Rangers began lashing out in all directions, and raised the Morelos racism accusation with the help of some friendly Journalists, however the evidence from any of them has yet to be produced. Where are Rangers now, both on and off the park, and how on earth did they let it get to this? Sometimes saying nothing and basking in your glory is the best way ahead.
To conclude it is easy to think Celtic know where the blame lies in this fiasco, and are going the right way about exposing it. There are no friendly media outlets for Celtic to vent their fury and none would be the place to do so in any case. In my opinion, for what it’s worth, Celtic’s actions and Rangers silence is speaking volumes.
Addendum – today’s Herald is calling for peace between Rangers and the BBC. What on earth would the pro-Rangers bias be like if that was declared, given how bad it is in ‘wartime’? God help us all.
“I’ve always liked JT since I saw him backstage knocking 6 bells out of the BBC’s Dougie Wernham at the SPOTY awards. After quickly realising I was no longer in Kansas in my career, I adapted, and accepted it was “all knockabout stuff” and I would never take it very seriously.”
“If I instead were to write a book about bad behaviour in football I’d come across as Mary Whitehouse. The environment is not conducive to your “finest moments”. Move on everyone!”
More tweets from Roger Mitchell this morning. No need to worry it’s all knockabout stuff not to be taken seriously.
"Rangers cheated for years under David Murray. There should be a level playing field in sport and Rangers did not adhere to that by using the EBT scheme to sign players they otherwise would not have been able to bring to the club. That was unfair on the other teams."
On the SFA: "They struck me as being completely clueless. They were complete clowns. They had a lot to say about me at the time, but did they say anything about the EBT case? A club effectively cheated the game for years and no sanctions were taken against any of the individuals responsible."
From Craig Whyte's autobiography, Into the Bear Pit, published in a week's time, aptly.
I see The Herald is also joining in the wagon circling this morning as Michael Stewart’s comments from that podcast are described as a rant. It’s beginning to resemble the SMSM behaviour of 2012. The one important difference this time around is that CFC appear to be taking a stand.
Craig Whyte, the former Rangers owner, publishes his autobiography, Into the Bear Pit, a week today on the eighth anniversary of the Ibrox club being put into administration.
The book, published by Birlinn, is packed with astonishing revelations about his time in charge of the Glasgow club and is sure to shake Scottish football to its foundations.
Here are some of the most incredible quotes:
On being disqualified as a director in the United Kingdom for seven years:
"I didn't see the judgement as a big deal. Banning problem directors doesn't curb their activities.
"Anyone with half a brain can get around it and it means the authorities can't monitor them."
On moving to tax haven Costa Rica:
"My view on tax is that transactions between people should be voluntary, and that goes for the government as well.
"Tax havens are completely moral as they stop governments from stealing your money. Governments are basically shakedown operations, like the mafia, but with better manners. They are parasites with no morals whatsoever."
READ MORE: Craig Whyte attacks just about everyone in explosive new Rangers book
On the likelihood of Rangers going into administration after his takeover:
"Administration seemed almost inevitable. We looked at the possibility of of putting the club into administration pre-acquisition, or at the time of the takeover.
"But the outcome of the EBT tax case was within the first month of the takeover. If we put the club into administration and then found we'd won the case that wouldn't look great."
On the Rangers directors:
"I thought the board were a bunch of pompous buffoons and meeting them served no purpose.
"I decided they were all going to have to go sooner rather than later."
On Rangers manager Ally McCoist:
"Ally McCoist was untested as a manager, but I had no choice but to keep him as it would have cost the club £1 million to break his contract.
"My hands had been tied by the old board."
On Rangers losing to Malmo in a Champions League qualifier in 2011:
"It was probably the moment when the inexperience of our young manager was most exposed.
"Had Walter Smith still been in charge and been able to guide us into the Champions League I firmly believe I would still be the owner of Rangers today."
On the Rangers players:
"In the main footballers struck me as mercenaries. They were there for the money, not because they loved the club.
"They got in at 10.30am, had a run around the pitch, got their free breakfast, their free lunch and then they disappeared. What a life. I used to hear all sorts of things about the players.
"The club doctor told me a player had picked up a sexually transmitted disease and his performances had seemed to dip as a result."
On failing to broker a deal with HMRC over the "big tax case":
"From the moment I took over I was confident that we'd either win the case or be able to do a deal with HMRC.
"At the time of the takeover I didn’t believe there was a single problem facing the club that was insurmountable. In my experience, when it came to dealing with HMRC, there was always a deal to be done. They always wanted to get paid. It didn't make sense to me."
On the SFA, who fined him £200,000 and banned him from being involved in football for life:
"They struck me as being completely clueless. They were complete clowns. They had a lot to say about me at the time, but did they say anything about the EBT case?
"A club effectively cheated the game for years and no sanctions were taken against any of the individuals responsible."
On selling Rangers' shares in Arsenal:
"The media said I'd sold shares the club held in Arsenal and kept the proceeds – that was completely untrue."
On being frozen out after Rangers went into administration:
"I thought I was in control of the situation. I genuinely believed we could emerge a debt-free club, that I'd still be at the helm and we could move on.
"The moment I thought I was in command was precisely the time it all fell apart. Duff and Phelps (the administrators) were acting with HMRC. Suddenly I was an outcast. Duff and Phelps were in charge and they swiftly instructed everybody not to deal with me."
On receiving death threats:
"I was the subject of several death threats, mostly online, people saying they'd happily take a life sentence to do me in. Another threatened to fire bomb the castle."
On Rangers' use of EBTs:
"Rangers cheated for years under David Murray. There should be a level playing field in sport and Rangers did not adhere to that by using the EBT scheme to sign players they otherwise would not have been able to bring to the club. That was unfair on the other teams."
On his involvement with Rangers:
"I've never known a deal like it. It seemed that everyone I came into contact with tried to shaft me. Many of them succeeded."
On Rangers and their supporters:
"I don't care what happens to Rangers now – but I have a lot of sympathy for the Rangers supporters.
"Those fans have suffered more than anyone, and through no fault of their own."
“The moment I thought I was in command was precisely the time it all fell apart. Duff and Phelps (the administrators) were acting with HMRC. Suddenly I was an outcast. Duff and Phelps were in charge and they swiftly instructed everybody not to deal with me.”
I seem to remember that HMRC has their own preferred firm (BDO?) to be administrators at the time. When Duff & Phelps were appointed many people were surprised that they didn’t challenge it. Maybe we now know the reason why. It’s strange, I thought people reckoned Duff & Phelps were Craig Whyte’s choice?
So who chose D & P?
‘upthehoops 7th February 2020 at 07:00
Anyone else find it really strange that Rangers, Kings of the statement world, have said absolutely nothing about the false translation of the Morelos interview? The interview took place inside their training ground, involved their star player, and the translation has been proven to be untrue. You would think Rangers would want to distance themselves or anyone working on their behalf from this. You would also think they would be angry that their player was badly misrepresented…’
##########################
Two possible reasons immediately spring to my mind (there may be several other explanations):
Complicity. TRFC has been caught bang to rights. Silence & ride the storm out. Unlikely, but possible. Morelos’ well-being/reputation is collateral damage in this scenario. Doesn’t really matter about him: today’s Scotsman has him going to Liverpool for gazillions in the summer…
Embarrassment. TRFC has trusted someone (not necessarily an employee) within the club/players circle with regard to the interview & translation. Club has been let down badly. Internal inquiry & person to blame made persona non grata or sacked. Again, Morelos’ well-being/reputation is collateral damage. Doesn’t really matter about him: today’s Scotsman has him going to Liverpool for gazillions in the summer etc.
Jingso.Jimsie
the word on the street is that it was morelos own advisor who handled the translation,don't know if it was or he is the fall guy
Revenge is a dish best served cold à la Whyte. I might even buy his book if I can get past the protesters who are sure to picket the booksellers.
Ex Ludo
there is always the e-book
Tony@11.58
I think I’ll just rely on your summaries on here. ?
Ex Ludo
Ex Ludo 7th February 2020 at 09:07
'…The one important difference this time around is that CFC appear to be taking a stand. '
++++++++++++++++++++++++
If Celtic had taken a stand alongside Turnbull Hutton and called out the rottenness at the heart of Scottish Football ,and had simply refused to countenance the creation and fostering of the Big Lie and preserved their own integrity and the integrity of the entire sport in Scotland!
Huffing and puffing now about 'fake news' is not at all tackling the underlying problem-the rottenness and deceit that runs right through football administration like the coronavirus through China.
I would prefer that Celtic would do what the their shareholders asked: get the RES12 issue investigated, and get the 5-Way Agreement nonsense rescinded.
That would be far more beneficial than any chasing up of false translations of an 'interview' with an unlikeable footballer.
John Clark
True, we wouldn't be having translategate if they had stood up back then
What are the chances of statement o'clock today ? Somebody must be itching to respond .
https://twitter.com/tenglishsport/status/1225764552392036352?s=21
Irony overload here.
JohnClark@12.55 and Tony@14.00
I’m in no position to judge why CFC have taken the position they have re Translategate and remained silent over Res 12. I would hesitate to conflate the two issues separated as they are by such a long period of time and involving 2 separate entities employing different people. That said I feel it’s appropriate to acknowledge that Celtic, in the latter instance have acted correctly.
https://www.ftadviser.com/regulation/2020/02/07/watchdog-hits-out-at-wholly-unacceptable-fca-response-times/
It would appear you're not alone JC…???
https://twitter.com/record_sport/status/1225787194574548992?s=21
The next “Morelos”?
‘tony 7th February 2020 at 11:32
Jingso.Jimsie
the word on the street is that it was morelos own advisor who handled the translation,don’t know if it was or he is the fall guy’
####################
Yes, I saw that in the Record. I wonder what their source for that was? Nivel Cinco?
I’ve been keeping an eye open for developments in the Scottish football pyramid below the SPFL
There have been a few things that have come up in the past 10 days or so. The Pyramid Working Group (PWG) met last week and couldn’t agree on anything, so much so that Rod Petrie seems to have shut it down.
Following the PWG meeting, Tom Johnston, the SJFA secretary, then emailed the junior clubs saying that the LL and EOSFL don’t like the juniors and had vetoed recommendations of the PWG. He also said that all the junior clubs were together on their stance.
A couple of things happened thereafter. Tom Johnston’s account of the meeting was challenged by others who were represented at the PWG meeting. Firstly, because the PWG hadn’t made any recommendations. The LL and EOS were apparently not in favour of the SFFA joining the pyramid with their structure and organisation intact, but were willing to accept the West junior sides into a WOSFL equivalent to the EOSFL which would fall under the auspices of the SFA / SPFL / LL rules and regulations on fixture calendars, discipline, promotion, licensing etc, i.e. the SJFA could not remain as an autonomous entity within the pyramid.
The LL board met earlier this week and agreed to progress the introduction of a WOSFL being set up at Tier 6 (same as the EoSFL and SoSFL). A joint statement from the LL and EoSFL was issued today inviting clubs to express interest in joining the pyramid in a new WoSFL.
Three West Junior clubs have already publicly responded to the invite, Kilwinning, Clydebank and Whitletts Victoria, with several more said to be interested, but haven’t yet gone public.
I think that what we are seeing is similar to what happened with the East Juniors the season before last. What starts as a trickle will become a flood, with several clubs looking to joins a WOSFL setup. Only those die-hard juniors will stay put.
It will be a shame for the Juniors to be broken up in this way, but I don’t believe that the SJFA has any justification for attempting to stop ambitious clubs joining, or progressing up the Scottish Football pyramid.
It should be possible to get a WOSFL started in time for the new season, although the promotion/relegation/play off arrangements with the LL will have to be adjusted.
I wonder if it's ever happened before; a football club boasting about the value of a player they don't own?
Or a…
football club bigging up the value of a player they are supposedly intending to buy (if his loan period is successsful).
The stupidity of TRFC's PR efforts really do take some beating…in the laughter stakes
But not only that, they really do take great efforts to make sure their support look as stupid as they are gullible.
Celtic's half year report has been published to the market.
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/CCP/14416061.html
Financial Highlights
· Revenue increased by 6.6% to £53.3m (2018: £50.0m)
· Profit from trading was £7.1m (2018: £6.2m)
· Profit from transfer of player registrations (shown as profit on disposal of intangible assets) £23.0m (2018: £17.6m)
· Profit before taxation of £24.4m (2018: £18.8m)
· Acquisition of player registrations of £15.0m (2018: £1.9m)
· Period end net cash at bank of £32.9m (2018: £38.6m)
· Period end net cash, net of debt and debt like items, of £45.1m (2018: £37.7m)1
https://www.change.org/p/bbc-scotland-bbc-scotland-reinstate-michael-stewart?recruiter=false&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_medium=whatsapp&utm_content=washarecopy_20197986_en-GB%3Av1&recruited_by_id=977d89b0-49d5-11ea-8819-bb9f090674fb
Petition to reinstate Michael Stewart at the BBC
jimbo 7th February 2020 at 18:55
Signed Jimbo. Welcome back and thanks for the link..
Ex Ludo 7th February 2020 at 14:37
'..I feel it’s appropriate to acknowledge that Celtic, in the latter instance have acted correctly.'
++++++++++++++=
I agree, of course, Ex Ludo: tackling any untruth is better than tackling none.
But if Celtic had really hit the 'TRFC= Rangers of 1872' nonsense on the head (and the lying deceitful mentality of those in governance responsible for it) we might have had a governance body of such unimpeachable integrity that no one involved in football would even have dreamt of pulling such a stunt as 'translatorgate'.
We might never know which evil, malicious dirty wee , or dirty fat ,tyke engineered that stunt, may the curse of Cromwell be upon him., but it's odds on that if he is ever identified, he sure as hell will not be punished to any significant degree, any more than was RFC of 1872 for SDM's cheating.
The SFA is so heavily compromised by its caving in to CG as to be, like Macbeth '"…in blood Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er'…''…….as to be a completely busted flush.
At about 7.54 this evening, I though I heard David Currie commit career suicide: I distinctly heard him say to whoever he was talking to on Sportsound "It's a new club, isn't it… six or so years old.."
I nearly choked on my post-prandial Armignac…and for the longest brief second wondered …
Currie is by no means the worst, I have to say, but even in working for Sportsound demeans him, in my view.
And there are not many in Scottish football with the integrity of Michael Stewart and Jim Spence …
[ I still don't know which club Currie was speaking of or to whom he was speaking)]
Signed Jimbo ??
David Currie was referring to BSC Glasgow JC. I think they were formed about a year after Sevco. I bet the producer was having kittens when he said it, thinking where is he going with this!!
Just a pity, BSC didn't draw TRFC rather than Hibs this weekend. Some of the contorted gymnastics from the EBT'd pundits would have been tremendous.
normanbatesmumfc 7th February 2020 at 14:46
'..It would appear you're not alone JC…'
++++++++++++++
That's a good spot, nbmfc, and encouraging.
I might send a wee email to Rachel Mortimer.
https://www.change.org/p/bbc-scotland-bbc-scotland-reinstate-michael-stewart?recruiter=false&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_medium=whatsapp&utm_content=washarecopy_20197986_en-GB:v1&recruited_by_id=977d89b0-49d5-11ea-8819-bb9f090674fb
Petition to reinstate Michael Stewart at the BBC
Hope you don’t mind me repeating the link to the new page. Thanks to all who have signed. 1,500 so far.
If anyone deserves our support it’s Michael Stewart, he made BBC Scotland almost tolerable. A light shining in the darkness. I like Willie Miller too but he sticks to on field stuff.
Can’t believe The Evening Times on line has an article reporting on the petition for Michael Stewart. With a link to it! We are led to believe by JJ that Traynor has influence at that paper!
normanbatesmumfc 7th February 2020 at 14:46
++++++++++==
Anent my post of 20.54 tonight I'll definitely write to Rachel Mortimer!
I went into my email inbox about half an hour ago , not having accessed it since earlier this morning.
Lo and behold, what do I find?
This email :
Complaints Scheme <complaints@fca.org.uk>
To:(me)
Cc:Complaints Scheme
7 Feb at 16:35
Dear Mr ..
Thank you for your email of 3 February 2020.
We have checked our records and have liaised with the relevant departments in relation to the correspondence you told us that you have sent to the Financial Conduct Authority. Unfortunately we have no record of these. We would be grateful if you could provide us with these documents again and we will forward it to the relevant areas to review and respond to.
We look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
FCA Complaints Team "
That is identical to a previous email about not being able to find my correspondence!
Not being able to find snail-mail letters is one thing: not being able to find emails is unheard of.
It instantly raises the suspicion that someone is deleting stuff in the hope that it might go away and they can plead ignorance or accident.
Ms Mortimer will get the whole story and copies from me as soon as I can compose myself and draft an appropriate letter.
Thanks again, nbmfc.
Allyjambo 7th February 2020 at 17:42
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I wonder if it’s ever happened before; a football club boasting about the value of a player they don’t own?
Or a…
football club bigging up the value of a player they are supposedly intending to buy (if his loan period is successsful).
The stupidity of TRFC’s PR efforts really do take some beating…in the laughter stakesmail But not only that, they really do take great efforts to make sure their support look as stupid as they are gullible.
…………………
Pure deflection by the club. The fans were promised a share issue in Jan and large investment believed to be coming from Hong kong, and many of the fans were hoping for some money to be spent on January signings to boost the squad.
Instead of the ibrox fans thinking we got nothing, they are now high on a loan player being valued at £100mill. So from thinking we got nothing too we have a player worth £100mill.
Deflection job done.
Cluster One 7th February 2020 at 22:39
There can be no doubt that it is all deflection, but their deflections are becoming ever more ludicrous, and should surely be seen by the most sentient of bears, at least, as downright insulting to all of them.
I'm sure he was first announced as a loan signing with a view to a permanent move, yet, here they are, saying the very opposite to what any sane business would say when intending to negotiate a purchase in the not too distant future. Any statement they make, if serious (we all know they're not) should qualify their bumming up of a loan player with the word 'but…' and definitely not put some fanciful price tag on him that makes it obvious they have no intention of signing him.
In true Ibroxian style, they are doing a 'reverse Morelos' with this one, just ever more ludicrous. They're even pricing him at five times the top fairy tale price they bandied about for their greatest ever player.
AllyJambo@23.09
The deflection is deployed on the same day CFC announce interim financials. Coincidence? Joincidince? (Friends reference)
I’m signing off now. I’m 3 generous measures into Auchentoshan Dark Oak.
I suppose the next 3 months or so are going to be a real test of Gerrard’s managerial abilities?
TRFC is still within touching-ish distance of a first title – and a SC win is still doable.
The transfer window has slammed shut without any incoming signings of note, (I.e. nothing to compare with Defoe and Davis last year).
But on the plus side, their star player Morelos is still at Ibrox. He didn’t get a transfer – as he allegedly expected – and to compound possible frustrations, he has VERY publicly suffered the humiliation of both Lambogate and Translationgate.
For a player who displays petulance – and cheating – on the field of play, mibbees he’s like that off the field too?
…and he could now be carefully lining up his toys – prior to violently ejecting them out of his pram?
Could be tricky for Gerrard to control?
And on top of recent, poor results, Gerrard has to lift his squad to actually win something this season.
And then there could be increasing noise off the field about the Ibrox finances, and even about Agent Whyte’s book…?
I don’t think it looks too promising for the Ibrox outfit this season – but as we all saw in the LC, if Gerrard can manage his squad effectively, then a SC win is certainly still achievable.
https://twitter.com/slimshady1961/status/1226081829549158401?s=21
Only the finest hagiography will do.
StevieBC 8th February 2020 at 07:48
And then there could be increasing noise off the field about the Ibrox finances, and even about Agent Whyte’s book…?
………..
With Whytes short stay at ibrox he knows how to play the media, get the big headline out there. Even if there is no substance it’s all about the headline. Jabba will be busy deflecting. But just now he must feel like a punch drunk fighter getting hit from all sides.
Morelos must be thinking, what the feck are they doing to me, I don’t mind a laugh and a joke but feck a pantomine.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-announce-huge-244m-profit-21453086
Just dawned on me that there are so many fires to put out at Ibrox that the reason we come up with so many different ideas for the regular deflections is just that: there really is a hell of a lot of problems for TRFC to deflect from. What's more, we have no idea of just how many problems they've had/continue to have that the deflections have successfully deflected everyone from. A bit of the old known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns.
I suspect that all football clubs, and all other businesses, have major problems from time to time, and minor ones that are ongoing, that we, the general public, never hear about. The problem for TRFC/RIFC is that there is an amazing amount of problems that we all know they've had that were resolved to their detriment while many are ongoing and almost certain to also be resolved to their detriment eventually. So many very expensive problems, so just imagine if, within all those deflections, some have been highly successful, indeed! Imagine if this current extra high level of p*sh is actually very clever PR, deflecting from something none of us have even guessed at!
All this is pure conjecture on my part, of course, but I'm pretty certain that, while in the same way that not all that's been reported about TRFC on social media has been accurate, there could/will be just as many serious problems that have gone unnoticed that we will never know about.
It's a long shot, I know, but just imagine if Traynor is actually a very gifted PR guru!!!
Craig Whyte: I edited Rangers stories before they were printed
EXCLUSIVE
Ex-Rangers owner Craig Whyte made the claims in his new book
19 comments
FORMER Rangers owner Craig Whyte has sensationally claimed that he used to “correct” the stories of Jim Traynor – then a journalist at the Daily Record – before they went to print.
Into The Bear Pit, Whyte’s autobiography due to be released next Friday, sees Whyte – who bought Rangers from David Murray for £1 in 2011 – also claim that he was able to get stories “pulled” from the Scottish press whenever he wanted.
READ MORE: The Kicker: Here's why Craig Whyte's book is utter mince
He also tells of his shock when the Record and Traynor – now the PR chief at Rangers – wrongly called him a “billionaire” in an infamous front-page headline.
Whyte claims: “Jim Traynor used to send me his articles through before he’d print them, and I’d correct them for him. In the pre-internet days, Murray must have had complete control. Some journalists were happy to have a good relationship with Rangers if that meant getting stories, even if as a result it became difficult to criticise the club.
“Traynor had got in touch … about a month after I went into Ibrox. We went for lunch at the Rogano restaurant and from that day he hounded me for a job. I was never that impressed with him. I would soon discover he could fly with the wind.”
Traynor hit back last night at Whyte’s claims, telling the Glasgow Times: “The truth about him is well-known. He was merely a pawn in a strategy – played out perfectly by the Record team at the time. So I can understand that he was ultimately and rightly exposed. You’d have thought the pound would have dropped by now.”
READ MORE: Petition launched for BBC to reinstate Michael Stewart
In the book, Whyte also said he could phone up newspapers to get rid of bad stories. “I had dinners with all the editors and learned very quickly that if there was a negative story I could call some of them up and have a pretty good chance of getting it stopped. With the Daily Record I had a 100% chance, and it was the same with The Sun.
“I used to call the editor of The Herald. I had a 50-50 chance of getting things stopped there. If it didn’t get stopped, you threatened them with withdrawal of access, that they wouldn’t get stories.”
READ MORE: 15 of the most incredible quotes from Craig Whyte's new Rangers book
He then describes picking up the Daily Record on the day the newspaper printed the news he was going to buy Rangers: “The front page screamed: ‘BILLIONAIRE SCOT TO BUY RANGERS FOR £30m.’ What the hell?! Billionaire?! How had they come to that?
“I soon found out. In response to the enquiries from journalists, Ian McKerron had put together a small biography of me, and had said I had a billion under management.
“Clearly the Record hadn’t understood there is a world of difference between assets under management and assets that you own. Maybe it was a reasonable mistake to make, but it wasn’t true.”
The piece, written by Traynor, claimed talks were at an advanced stage, though Whyte claims this was not the case after only meeting Murray once until that point.
Claims by Traynor that then Rangers manager Walter Smith would have a “massive sum” to spend in the following January were also wide of the mark, according to Whyte.
“The Scottish Sun went further and said: ‘RANGERS SOLD BY XMAS,” added Whyte.
The Daily Record and The Scottish Sun have declined to comment.
“…imagine if Traynor is actually a very gifted PR guru!!!…”
Right Allyjambo: you’ve finally outed yourself as Jabba!
You’re right of course.
Traynor could be doing a fantastic job for a very challenging Client, all things considered.
But my gut feeling is that Traynor is a similar character to those occupying the Blue Room: an unethical chancer, who has bullsh!ted his way throughout his working life.
The prime example?
Traynor’s seamless transition from p!sh poor footy pundit to a PR ‘expert’.
And talking of unknowns, etc. when it comes to PR management, IMO, Traynor simply doesn’t know what he doesn’t know!
StevieBC 8th February 2020 at 13:05
“But my gut feeling is that Traynor is a similar character to those occupying the Blue Room: an unethical chancer, who has bullsh!ted his way throughout his working life.”
In my opinion, Stevie, you’ve just precis’d the job description of the perfect PR man, though I have to admit, your opinion of Traynor matches mine.
Still, however good or bad a PR man Traynor is, the ludicrous stories he’s pushing now can’t just be to deflect from what we already know ie RIFC/TRFC are low on/out of cash and were in desperate need to sell Morelos plus the rest, have numerous court cases to settle, the Close loan to pay back and all the while keeping their support onside. You don’t have to be a half-decent PR man to come up with some deflection that doesn’t make your client look even more stupid than they already did, not when you’ve got the media in the palm of your hand. And after all this time of ever more obvious lying PR, the club keep paying him for this BS. He’s either doing a good job, or they just can’t fire him. I’d suspect that if Jim Traynor is not doing a good job, then he has one of those ‘onerous contracts’ we used to hear about from PMGB.
On page23 of today's 'The Scotsman' we have John McLellan under the heading 'A timely reminder of the power of the 'Press' ' using the McKay scandal as an opportunity for bit of SNP bashing (McLellan, of course, is a former editor of the Scotsman and was communications director for the Scottish Tories and media advisor to Ruth Davidson, so we know where he's coming from)'
We know the power of the Press, thank you, Mr McLellan: we have watched that power over the last decade not as a power for good, but for evil , protecting at the expense of truth
first ,a dishonest,cheating Football Club and its majority share-holder ,
second, a dishonest, deceitful, Football governance body,
third, a dishonest new football club claiming falsely the sporting achievements and honours of a defunct club and marketing itself as being that defunct club
And on the back page of the 'Weekend Sport' supplement of the same paper (a whole half a page!) we have Alan Pattullo's 'advertisement' for CW's book.
The second sentence of the 'advert reads' "On 14 February, eight years to the day after Rangers plunged into administration……….comes Craig Whyte' memoirs"
No mention, of course, that Rangers never came out of Administration, but went into Liquidation and ceased to be a shareholder in the SPL and ceased to be entitled to membership of the SFA.
That is, not all the truth is being told.
————
Trumpeting about the power of the Press? Josef Goebbels could do as much.
Trouble is, Truth is indivisible.
And using the power of the Press to support and defend a lie is to betray a Goebbels-like attitude.
If journalists are scared to report simple sporting matters truthfully, what greater evils might they also choose not to report?
StevieBC 8th February 2020 at 13:05
“an unethical chancer, who has bullsh!ted his way throughout his working life.”
Bullshat, shurely. (Ed)
The Rangers nwmtp…
I stand / sit corrected… and I duly defer to your superior bullshittery.
Graham Spiers has a half decent article in today's Times about Translategate. pointing out that it is no wonder football fans are so mistrusting of the media. I note Spiers no longer gets work from the BBC either. The same BBC who have yet to mention the false translation of the Morelos interview, but who were happy to banner headline about the racism he suffers before we knew the subtitles had been made up.
On another note I remain mystified as to why Rangers have yet to issue a statement on the matter, given the interview was inside their Training Ground, and the player was misrepresented.
A short piece about Translategate on the 7th on The Nine
The Nine, 07/02/2020: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000f4hg via @bbciplayer
StevieBC 8th February 2020 at 15:15
I stand / sit corrected… and I duly defer to your superior bullshittery.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
As well you should, sir, given my propensity for same.
https://twitter.com/frpaul_stone/status/1226065650394767364?s=21
This sort of thing couldn’t happen here in Scotland obviously.
tony 8th February 2020 at 12:54
“The front page screamed: ‘BILLIONAIRE SCOT TO BUY RANGERS FOR £30m.’ What the hell?! Billionaire?! How had they come to that?
……………………
This one?
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1226229503103467522/photo/1
Avataradam812 8th February 2020 at 16:32 A short piece about Translategate on the 7th on The Nine The Nine, 07/02/2020: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000f4hg via @bbciplayer
______________
I couldn't find the piece you refer to, but did you notice the piece on White's book where Chris McŁaughlin talks of the club (Rangers) entering administration…and subsequent liquidation. Maybe Michael Stewart has a mate at the BBC who knows how vile Traynor and TRFC can be.
The piece is timed around 15 mins.
Allyjambo 8th February 2020 at 22:09
'….Maybe Michael Stewart has a mate at the BBC who knows how vile Traynor and TRFC can be.'
+++++++++
It's no secret that Chris McLaughlin is the one banned from Ibrox for telling it as it is.
To be more fair to the BBC than they actually deserve, although they persist in denying discussion of the death of RFC of 1872 ,and propagating the myth of that club's continuing existence (on the programmes and by staff whom they control) they at least have not caved in to the idea that a football club can dictate to them which reporter should be permitted access to Ibrox.
That would be a step too far, and one that BBC London would not approve or permit.
BBC Scotland was, however, happy enough to allow the succulent lamb eaters to do their sickening sycophantic crawling to SDM and bathe rapturously in the arch-cheat's favour while neglecting their duty to their profession as 'journalists'
God, how I contemn them.
I have sent this email :
To:Rachel.Mortimer@ft.com
8 Feb at 22:52
Hello, Rachel Mortimer.
It’s late on a Saturday night, but I have just read your piece about the FCA’s deficiencies in the matter of correspondence handling.
Here is a summary of my ‘correspondence-with-the FCA’ saga.
[ and here I listed in date order and summarised all the correspondence since 25 June]
Now[I continued], I know that snail mail can get lost in the post, and my having put not quite the correct postcode on three of the four letters would not have helped: – but for four letters from the same individual to two separate officers of a company not to be found? (and I did have , for the fourth letter, a Royal mail tracking receipt!)
And as for emails (which my own pc shows as having been sent) can they be accidentally lost, irretrievably?
At the very least, that would betoken gross carelessness and/or indifference in the matter of monitoring incoming stuff.
And when the reason for my communicating with the FCA was to suggest that they themselves had been in breach of their statutory duty in authorising a particular IPO Prospectus it might be that there other reasons why I have not received any kind of substantive reply!
Below are the emails I sent to the FCA’s Mr Scrivener [ God forgive me, but I actually was beginning to think I was being practised upon by some joker, or perhaps ‘Mr Scrivener’ is the name used by whichever member of staff happens to be clearing the inbox at any given time, like ‘Bob’ used to be in my day]
The other email correspondence can of course, be copied to you if you particularly want to see the to-ing and fro-ing, but I’ll give you the most recent as evidence that I’ve had no substantive reply to my original letter of June last year:
“Complaints Scheme complaints@fca.org.uk
To:
(me)
3 Feb at 09:48
Thank you for contacting the FCA’s Complaints Team. We will aim to respond to your email within 5 working days.
Please note that our normal business hours are 09:00-17:00 daily, excluding weekends and Bank holidays. To find out more about the work of the Complaints Team please click here ”
I don’t expect ( although I would love it if you were to be ) that you will be particularly interested in whether the FCA authorisation of an IPO issued by a holding company which implies that its principal business is the running of what had been, before it went into Liquidation, the most successful football club in the world, instead of a football club newly created and newly admitted as a football club in 2012!
But if you could just get the FCA to reply to me to explain on what grounds they believed that the RIFC plc IPO published in 2012 was not written in such a way as to mislead potential investors, I would be very happy.
And I think it is a little worrying that Andrew Bailey is now Chairman of the Bank of England: I hope he has people who run a better correspondence unit than he appears to have had at the FCA.
Yours in peace, happiness and the light of truth, or, more conventionally,
yours sincerely,
Good luck with your latest effort John.
Over on Sentinel Celts there is a poster, an ex referee, who has been having problems getting answers from the SFA. He won’t be the first person in that position! He is about to raise it to UEFA.
Some folk don’t like awkward questions.
Likewise, good luck to him.
I thought it was Kieth Jackson who created the myth of the Motherwell Billionaire with wealth off the radar.
As for Whyte's allusion to having a billion quid of assets 'under management'? LMAO.
The biggest threat to Sevco is RIFC. Or, to put it bluntly, Dave King. RIFC owes him £5 million. He has the most significant shareholding. He is persona non grata in the financial community. He is the millstone around Sevco's brass neck.
TRFC really has to be sold off to survive, but King will want his pounds of flesh. He is a bigger drawback to Sevco than an elephant's prepuce. The longer this standoff continues the lower the price will be for TRFC.
As for Traynor? I have a suspicion that he is finished. Hence the lack of 'statement' Friday and Gerrard's silence on the Morelos matter.
Of course, these are just my opinionated opinions.
As a quick aside. What are Celtic doing accumulating capital of over £30 million in the Bank? Does anyone find this suspicious?
jimbo 9th February 2020 at 00:25
'.Good luck with your latest effort John.'
++++++++++
Thank you, jimbo.
And you and I both know that we can go beddy-bys with a conscience clear of betrayal of duty, of office, and of sports cheating and business lying.
God rot the rotten baster.s who have so sullied our game, and who sleep uneasily in their beds waiting for Truth to nail them as the liars and cheats that they KNOW that they are.
And that's the thing-they know!
finnmccool 9th February 2020 at 00:43
'…He is a bigger drawback to Sevco than an elephant's prepuce.'
++++++++
Ah, man, that deserves a literary prize!
Finnmccool@00.43
As a quick aside. What are Celtic doing accumulating capital of over £30 million in the Bank? Does anyone find this suspicious?
Making the club more saleable I would suggest.
https://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase/status/1226240150696538112?s=21
Interesting thread from RTC.
From Observer/Guardian .
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/feb/09/rangers-pele-diego-maradona-ianis-hagi-football
finnmccool 9th February 2020 at 00:43
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1
Rate This
I thought it was Kieth Jackson who created the myth of the Motherwell Billionaire with wealth off the radar.
………………………
He just prints what he is told. I believe he once said.
…………………………….
As a quick aside. What are Celtic doing accumulating capital of over £30 million in the Bank? Does anyone find this suspicious?
…………………..
No. They have a Hotel to build, a fan zone to create and now have bought land to turn into a disabled parking area. And enough left over to sustain another disaster from an ibrox club
Ex Ludo 9th February 2020 at 08:36
Finnmccool@00.43
As a quick aside. What are Celtic doing accumulating capital of over £30 million in the Bank? Does anyone find this suspicious?
Making the club more saleable I would suggest.
=====================
Personally I see nothing untoward. They have to fund infrastructure too, and have planning permission for a new full size indoor pitch at Barrowfield as well as the hotel at the stadium. Also, given the number of qualifying rounds for the Champions League they have to have resilience in place should they fail to qualify.
I am as annoyed at the lack of action by the Celtic Board over Res. 12 as anyone, but sometimes I find it difficult to comprehend why they receive so much criticism on how they run the club.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18222003.anger-thousands-fans-owed-millions-rangers-liquidation-set-lose-money/
………………………
Anger as thousands of fans owed millions from Rangers liquidation set to lose out
…………………
Don’t know why this story is getting aired today
Back in Dec Easyjambo let us know that only about 20% of debenture holders had made claims and the rest were now time barred.
Taken from the BDO report i believe back in December.
…………..
Has someone got a book out or something and he needs to be portrayed in a bad light?
upthehoops 9th February 2020 at 11:17
and have planning permission for a new full size indoor pitch at Barrowfield as well
………………..
Thanks i had forgot about that.
………………
And with that all in mind do you believe £30 million in the Bank is enough to cover all that?
Ex Ludo 9th February 2020 at 08:36
Finnmccool@00.43
As a quick aside. What are Celtic doing accumulating capital of over £30 million in the Bank? Does anyone find this suspicious?
Making the club more saleable I would suggest.
=================================
Who would you suggest intends selling their shares, it's a PLC, so selling "the club" really isn't an option as far as I am aware.
Celtic are "accumulating capital" because they are making more money than they are earning and have various capital projects planned. They are also providing a buffer for failing to qualify for the champions league, or being able to sell a player in order to make up the shortfall.
Its called planning.
Cluster One 9th February 2020 at 11:27
=====================================
Things like this also make me laugh. Trying to make it look like its not actually Rangers.
"… the liquidators of RFC 2012 plc,"
That would be the new name for
THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C. 27 May 1899 – 31 Jul 2012
Would it not.
Homunculus@11.38
It’s never a bad thing to have money put away for a rainy day and no one could argue that the Celtic business model isn’t working on and off the park. There was some stories circulating a couple of months ago that Dermot Desmond was preparing to sell shares and there was interest from the US. That has all gone quiet now but the profits continue upwards.
Homunculus 9th February 2020 at 11:44 Cluster One 9th February 2020 at 11:27 ===================================== Things like this also make me laugh. Trying to make it look like its not actually Rangers. "… the liquidators of RFC 2012 plc," That would be the new name for THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C. 27 May 1899 – 31 Jul 2012 Would it not.
_________
Your post just made me realise how strange the world of Scottish football is. Sevco (Scotland) Ltd changed it's name to The Rangers FC Ltd and 'became' 'Rangers', while Rangers changed it's name to RFC 2012 and became 'not The Rangers Football Club PLC'.
In short; subterfuge*.
*Subterfuge, deceit used in order to achieve one's goal.
Allyjambo 9th February 2020 at 13:47
Exactly the point of the exercise.
The name "RFC 2012 plc" even suggests it's the year it was formed, as opposed to the year it died.
Homunculus 9th February 2020 at 11:44
'…..trying to make it look like its not actually Rangers..'
Allyjambo 9th February 2020 at 13:47 ,stiff-armed'
'..In short; subterfuge.'
+++++++++++++++
You beat me to it, gentlemen!
How ill-served we have been by the Herald (may it go bust before very much longer) and the general run of the SMSM in such a banal matter as the death of a football club!
What would editors and journalists of that type be like in any major political crisis where their personal freedom and possibly their lives would be at stake if they did not toe the party line?
I can see them as sleek and prosperous collaborators obediently eating their succulent lamb as they churned out propaganda sheets at the bidding of a latter-day gauleiter, while shouting 'ja wohl!'
They are a disgrace to their profession.
Hello, Long, long-time lurker. Since RTC days, in fact. I have never felt the need to post because I believe I couldn't offer anything worthwhile. Maybe now. I checked out bookies to find out the odds on Rangers Mark II going into liquidation, either before the season ends or before next season begins. Nada. None biting. Not a biggie, but thought might be of interest.
In case you missed it – an interesting piece from Gordon Waddell on Translategate. It’s worth reading the whole article, I think. Excerpts below:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alfredo-morelos-victim-translategate-rangers-21456932
‘When they exercise this level of control over three minutes of banality from a Glen Kamara or a Steven Davis, are we honestly expected to believe they somehow relinquished it so completely and absolutely last week for Morelos?’
‘He has played 129 games, scored 76 goals, been sent off seven times – not one single interview, beyond a club TV puff piece when they allowed a Portuguese broadcaster to speak to him after the Porto game in October.’
‘Yet in a week when he’s front-page news, back-page news and on virtually every page in between, he does an interview with the Formula 1 reporter from the Scottish game’s biggest rights holders, inside their training ground, and there’s zero knowledge of, or control over, a single word that comes out of his mouth? Or maybe more saliently, the words that don’t come out of his mouth?’
‘If this was the BBC that had misrepresented their star player, Rangers fans and their various representative bodies would be heading for Pacific Quay with pitchforks and torches.
Where are the official statements of outrage, demanding bans?
Sky were there on Friday at the training ground, business as usual. Are Club1872 not up in arms? And if not, why not?’
Peter, I have heard, like you, many times in the past that Rangers Mk2 are heading for the gutter. Most of the time I agreed. But they always seem to avoid it. With the help of rich directors. But rumour has it that that particular source of help has dried up. Close Bros. have to be paid back so that is no help. One thing is for sure, they are spending more than they earn. I’m no expert but a takeover seems the only solution to me. Unless of course they reduce their spending considerably.
It is interesting that the bookies are not taking bets on it but I don’t know how much to read into that.
Once again I will just have to wait and see!
Yes Jimbo – they seem to avoid the Administration/Liquidation iceberg on a regular basis for the reasons outlined by you..
I believe this could last (God knows how!) until TIAR hits the fan – if indeed it does.
The TRFC ‘raison d’etre’ (i.e. stopping it) will only then be well and truly ‘goosed’.
Till then – onward SEVCO Soldiers (Irony)!
daily record went rogue
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alfredo-morelos-victim-translategate-rangers-21456932
Jingsojimsie@19.22
The piece by Gordon Waddell suggests he has been doing some research on the Internet prior to writing his article. That very question of the lack of response has been mooted on here and on Twitter. That there has been no outrage from Club72 might be as a result of pressure from the blue room in the hope that it will all go away. I would suggest that Club72 would not rock the boat because they have bought into the narrative that everybody hates them and they really don’t care.
tony 9th February 2020 at 20:55
daily record went rogue…
=========
Dare I say it: that's a decent article from Waddell!
It gives an interesting insight into the media game.
Only questions are: why has he written it – and for whom?
StevieBC
are the walls coming down for traynor,sounds like it is being organised
Given that Rangers* are desperate for funds to see out the season then why are they not taking Skysports to task for the misrepresentation of their player , why have they not even issued a statement on their concerns , why have I not included a question mark ? Rhetorical ? Correct . It's blatantly obvious what has gone on here and with Craig Whyte confirming what most of us already knew it really has been a bad week for PR at Ibrox.
There seems to be a Mexican stand off at Board level , King has not left the building and I doubt he will do without recouping as much of his investment as possible . He is just one of the hands held out for some cash , Close Brothers and the need to fund the shortfall are all in competition for whatever is left in the kitty. With King onboard there is zero possibility of investment , if Close aren't paid off then assets are seized and litigation follows , if the shortfall isn't addressed then they must call in administrators or they will be trading while insolvent . We haven't even touched on Ashleys claim or the fact they have no kit deal signed up for next season . Who in their right mind would launch a takeover deal for this basket case of asses (sic)? For me January was the last chance saloon to get the books in order by launching a clear out of any saleable players and reducing running costs . I cannot see of any possibility they can break even in the accounts and a licence for Europe is hanging by a thread . It has become so ridiculous that a loan player is now being valued at €100m after 1 goal against Hibs .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_and_liquidation_of_The_Rangers_Football_Club_plc
Still tumbleweed down Ibrox way regarding the translation of the Morelos interview. Where are the frothing at the mouth statements, promising retribution?
It's fairly easy to conclude what has gone on here. Sky are not innocent, but I am sure they would be quite happy to throw those responsible for handing them the translation under a bus. Meanwhile the national broadcaster can't even bring itself to mention the incident.
They say the truth will always get you in the end, and sometimes I look around myself in life and see liars, cheats, and downright evil bastards prospering, and I wonder whether that is actually the case. Perhaps this time it will be though.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chief-dave-king-held-21466514.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Monday column: The truth about Craig Whyte and the Daily Record…
Craig Whyte's Rangers power myth and the real facts behind his claims – Jackson
The hated former owner has a book out soon and Keith has explained why a lot of what Whyte says can't be trusted.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/craig-whytes-rangers-power-myth-21464319
——————————————
There's a bit of rewriting of history as he seeks to distance himself from former colleagues Jim Traynor and Bruce Waddell. He also blames Waddell for his "wealth off the radar" claim.
His claims about revealing the source of Whyte's funds, apparently "splashed across the back page of the Daily Record on June 14, 2011", are accompanied by a picture of a back page dated 31 January 2012 with the Ticketus exclusive.
The mortgaging of Season Tickets had been discussed on RTC as soon as the security documents appeared at Companies House. As I posted 3 weeks ago, one poster had identified Ticketus as the likely source of the funds as early as 5 June 2011.
johnbhoy says: 05/06/2011 at 5:35 pm
http://southafrica.trendolizer.com/2020/02/dave-king-held-at-gunpoint-during-terrifying-south-africa-robbery.html
The only reference I can find to King's allegations of robbery at gunpoint ( 7 days ago) is in the SMSM ,when searching the Sth African Press all I find is a link to reports in Scotland. Anyone else find it strange that the Sth African Press would get their news about crime in Sth Africa from news outlets in Scotland . There are no quotes from the Sth African police to validate anything just the word "alleges" from the Press (North and South of the Limpopo) . Would King lie ? Would Traynor facilitate the story without checking the facts ? Would the SMSM? What purpose does it serve ? A distraction from recent events , gain sympathy , a future excuse for the hacking of his wealth that limits his ability to function. According to King this is the 3rd armed robbery on himself and family recently, surely there would be a police report to validate these allegations or an insurance claim . Maybe this is one for an investigative journalist to follow up . After taking advice from a Judge in Sth Africa I'm not prepared to believe it unless it is backed up by written evidence.
A bad week for the SMSM, who, as things stand, have been trapped in their own web of lies over Hen Broon brake-line snippers, and the translategate deflection plan.
Now Klaxon has thrust forward his disclaimer notice and spoiler spiel before the claims are even officially revealed as legal tender…………..There is fear in the air. "Duped" is the buzz-word of the dilemma.
Is it honestly fact, that so many hacks can be duped by ridiculousness, while reams of documented and authenticated information passed to them, time-lined and catalogued, were dismissed as an, "Attempted Duping"……….Really?..
Or is it honestly fact, that a campaign of deflection and mis-information was willingly entered into by those entrusted to shine a light in dark corners, where Sevco fans feared to tread.
The SKY VTR has libelled, or slandered, Celtic FC and the Scottish game in general, on a loop, on a global reach broadcast. That is a legal matter…..If it transpires that a SFA member club was involved, it becomes an SFA matter.
If it transpires that no clubs were involved, but the player or his representatives that were at the libellous duping, it is also a legal AND SFA matter.
On the "Bringing the game into disrepute", scale….I'd say it was off the radar.
Silence is golden……Has the fat slug not here to defend himself been given his jotters?
Just re read the DR article
“One of them said, ‘Where’s your money?’, so I took all my cash out and gave it to them. They took my laptop, my case, my drivers’ licence, diary, phone and all the things I need to function.” Would be catastrophic if this limits Kings ability to fund the shortfall,pay back Close Leasing, sort out a kit deal , re pay Ashley …………..
Timtim 10th February 2020 at 11:53
Just re read the DR article “One of them said, ‘Where’s your money?’, so I took all my cash out and gave it to them. They took my laptop, my case, my drivers’ licence, diary, phone and all the things I need to function.” Would be catastrophic if this limits Kings ability to fund the shortfall,pay back Close Leasing, sort out a kit deal , re pay Ashley.
—————————————————————————————
I think it more likely he is being tactical and threatening his auld pals that he just might not bugger aff efter a'……….That's a' they need !
Maybe it was a rogue band of Private Eyes who mugged him.
.
Timtim 10th February 2020 at 11:53
oooooooooooo
My first thought too. Perhaps the people at this end have been finding it difficult to contact him recently.
Timtim 10th February 2020 at 11:53
'..“One of them said, ‘Where’s your money?’, '
++++++++++++++
I believe he was asked that question a few times by certain tax inspectors some years ago?
easyJambo 10th February 2020 at 10:21
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/craig-whytes-rangers-power-myth-21464319
================================
He was as wrong then as he is now.
Ticketus did not provide loans secured on future season ticket sales, Whyte did not mortgage anything to get money from them.
The tickets were sold to Ticketus at a heavy discount, providing the cash in advance. I think Rangers were already doing that to assist cash flow at the end of the season, as do other clubs.
The tickets were then to be sold at face value, by the club, with the profit going to Ticketus (minus an administration fee). That way the fans thought they were buying their tickets from the club.
That is Ticketus' standard operating model. It helps struggling clubs with cashflow but is very costly as you are spending next season's income. In Rangers case several future seasons' money (or a large part of it) has been spent.
That article, and I use the word incorrectly is a pathetic attempt at saying "it wisnae ma fault a big boy made me do it, but I tried to fix it" and he can't even get his facts right when he says it.
Jackson is as much to blame, for selling Whyte to the Rangers support, as anyone else outside of the club. He played an important role in getting Whyte into power at Rangers and his latest is a pathetic attempt at trying to get the support back onside. No wonder print media in this country is on it's last legs.
"I was dragged into this ‘wealth off the radar’ charade having been instructed to write a puff piece by Waddell .'
Ja wohl, mein Fuhrer!
Nothing like doing a bit of investigative journalism on your own initiative, is there, Keef?
Homunculus 10th February 2020 at 13:43
easyJambo 10th February 2020 at 10:21 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/craig-whytes-rangers-power-myth-21464319
================================
He was as wrong then as he is now.
===================================
Bottom line being that if, for whatever reason, the sale to wee Craigy never took place, Minty would be left holding the black ball with the ever shortening fuse burning.
It’s interesting in the latest recantation from the DR and Keith Jackson that the principal player in this long running omnishambles is rarely mentioned and never criticised by the SMSM. Such power still being exercised by the liege Lord.
A quote from the Daily Ranger "muggingate"
"Afterwards there was a growing anger within me. I was angry about the violation and that I am living in a country which no longers appears to have a rule of law."
From a man who has spent a lifetime holding two fingers up to the law. As some might say, "he widnae get a red face at a bonfire"
Is Keith Jackson's column an example (or a collection of examples) of Cognitive Dissonance?
Over the past week or two, it appears to this layman that the SMSM's (and not just KJ's) Cognitive Consistency is creaking at the edges…
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/twelve-year-old-boy-charged-21468886
Ex-Rangers owner Whyte claims DUP offered him peerage for £250k
Craig Whyte
By Allan Preston
February 10 2020 06:45 AM
The DUP has blasted a former owner of Rangers Football Club as "desperate" for publicity after claiming that the party had offered him a peerage in return for a £250,000 donation.
Craig Whyte makes the claim in his forthcoming autobiography Into The Bear Pit, where he alleges "senior members of the DUP" made the offer.
But a DUP spokesperson said yesterday: "This is absolute nonsense and a desperate attempt to help sell a book. Mr Whyte should name and shame if he's so confident of his facts."
In 2011 the Scottish businessman bought the club from Sir David Murray for just £1.
He sold his interest less than a year later for £2 before the club went into administration, and then liquidation.
During his brief time at the Ibrox club he claimed the DUP were among those after his patronage.
"It was fascinating to see how people of differing political persuasions had a common cause in their love for Rangers," he wrote.
"The political reach of the club amazed me. And as a door-opener being the owner of a significant football club couldn't be beat.
"For example, one of my colleagues at Merchant House, who was involved with the Conservative Party and Democratic Unionist Party in Northern Ireland, said to me: 'You're not going to believe this. I've got a great deal for you. I have been talking to senior people in the DUP and they want to offer you a peerage so you can sit in the House of Lords for them, if you donate £250,000 and hold some functions for them in Northern Ireland'."
Mr Whyte said he had met "other DUP people" at Ibrox when supporters from here travelled over for games.
"The offer was on the table and if I had pressed the button it would have happened, but it wasn't something that interested me," he stated.
"When I look at the influence the DUP now have at Westminster, I think it's funny when you know the type of deals they've tried to make in the past."
Mr Whyte also claims that Rangers "cheated for years under David Murray" over their use of the EBT tax scheme to pay players.
He added that there was a failed effort to rewrite The Billy Boys song to remove sectarian lyrics for supporters to avoid Uefa sanctions.
Belfast Telegraph
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/police-charge/
Statement time , not a mention about the Rangers* fan who racially abused Shay Logan or any comment on translategate but Traynor clearly rattled by recent events spitting his poison despite this child not having been convicted of anything so far unlike his glib and shameless paymaster
On a sliding scale of serious crime where do you rate them?
Shouting racist remarks from a football ‘terrace’
Making ‘cut throat gestures’ towards opposition fans, or, officials
Making gun threat gestures.
All at the same game.
They all sound equal to me. But who was charged by Police Scotland? a 12 year old boy? but not the adults?
Doesn’t sound fair to me. If I was the parents involved I’d hire a cheap lawyer. Case closed!
Paying for an 'honour' is as old as the honours system itself.
The Whyte claim is a perfectly reasonable claim.
…and the obvious follow on question is;
How much did Minty pay for his 'K' ? [Allegedly.
]
Gordon Brown sanctioned the Honour on David Murray. Look what happened to him. The once great Labour Party is now reduced to a nothingness in Scotland. Tells you everything. A white washed tory. The City of London loved him. Destroyed the pension schemes of millions.
StevieBC
with the level of debt he left i can only assume the taxpayer paid for his
So that's both Jackson and Traynor who have released personal statements having ago at other people.
One wonders whether they are using their respective institutions to do it before said institutions have no voice left, or even cease to exist entirely.
I suppose it was Jackson who "started it" this time, with his comments about previous bosses.
Blaming the delay of the Rangers statement on having to wait until a 12 year old was charged seems a bit disingenuous. This excuse is the clearly best Jim T could come up with.
We have all read warnings not to comment on cases that are ongoing lest we prejudice them . Traynor has just declared a child guilty of racism before it has been tried in court . The statement tonight was an act of extreme desperation to deflect the mounting criticism on him personally . Nobody is safe from this thug's vitriol , Michael Stewart had him bang to rights , time he was relieved of his duties as he is certainly causing more problems than he is solving.
Homunculus 10th February 2020 at 21:37
So that's both Jackson and Traynor who have released personal statements having ago at other people…
=========
That will be those 2 literary titans – Keef & Jabba – issuing statements as if they had something of significance to share.
Like 2 jakeys, looking for a square go with anyone – whilst they can barely stand unaided.
We'll all miss their p!sh output when they're punted.
Mibbees.
I have emailed the offices of The Children’s Commissioner and the Children’s Reporter seeking their views regarding the appropriateness of the statement issued by Rangers FC. I will share any response I receive.
Timtim
just read that statement,this bit sticks out
Finally, Rangers would be more than happy to accommodate the young person involved in this latest incident on one of our courses designed to help people understand why racist and sectarian abuse is unacceptable. Indeed, if any of those journalists/pundits who got it so badly wrong would like to attend we’d also welcome and help them.
that is going to be a busy course after every game at ibrox
Tony22.09
Whilst there will not be a criminal trial in relation to the 12 year old who has been charged. The matter is still sub judice and the statement by Rangers is both ill judged and premature. Everybody should be wary of passing comment until the Children’s Panel hearing is concluded.
Ex Ludo 10th February 2020 at 22:44
Tony22.09
Whilst there will not be a criminal trial in relation to the 12 year old who has been charged. The matter is still sub judice and the statement by Rangers is both ill judged and premature. Everybody should be wary of passing comment until the Children’s Panel hearing is concluded.
=========
I posted this comment last night about Traynor, and he has conveniently validated it, again, within 24 hours;
"…he doesn't know what he doesn't know…"
StevieBC@22.53
Ah yes! The Johari Window has been demonstrated once more.
I can’t reproduce the actual Twitter message but Graham Spiers hits the target with this :
“How desperate must Jim Traynor be to produce this wafting resentment? on the fate of a 12 year old boy? And, believe me, it is Jim, from the tortured syntax and sheer ineptitude with punctuation.”
Why has the Son of the Manse suddenly chosen to remove himself from Jabba’s Christmas card list?
Billy Boyce
I don't know what has happened between the two but it could tasty if traynor replies
Cluster One
Apologies for taking so much time to reply to the Kieth Jackson comment.
You said Keith just writes what he's told and then a couple of days later Kieth confirms it in his article! I had a good laugh. I imagined you phoning him up and telling what to write so you could say, 'I told you so'.
As for Celtic hoarding cash, I am suspicious. It is unusual for a company to do that. Celtic have had a huge cash surplus for a few years. It makes the Bank money. Not Celtic.
I follow your argument about the Hotel but would anyone want to build an hotel with their own money? Would it not make more sense to borrow the money and have investment partners? It's cheaper and spreads the risk.
I talked to Trump about it yesterday, before I woke up, and he assured me he would get that moron at the Daily Wreckhard to write an article on it just to prove you wrong
Ex Ludo 10th February 2020 at 23:42
StevieBC@22.53 Ah yes! The Johari Window has been demonstrated once more.
========
Every day a school day: had never heard that term before.
…so you're implying that Traynor needs a dug…?
Just when you thought it couldn't get any more bizarre Statement O'Clock comes round again.
The contents of the Statement raise many interesting points but sub iudice laws and Contempt of Court provisions mean only an idiot would discuss live proceedings. Which brings me neatly to one of the two things which can safely be mentioned. Who is the idiot who penned this? My initial thought was that the author was the man who has just got his BBC apology back from his picture framer but I then re-read it and thought that Chris "Ze List" Graham could well be involved. It's certainly bad enough to be either. Graham Spiers is in no doubt who is responsible (using the word in one of its meanings) and has tweeted naming him. By the time Craig Whyte's book comes out there won't be a journalist left who doesn't have Jabba's teethprints on his throat and vice versa.
The other thing that can be mentioned is that the Statement ends with a Copyright warning (always sticklers for the law down Govan way) and readers are put on notice Article Copyright (C) 2019. Which means they started writing the Statement on Hogmanay. However I fear this will be the least of their problems.
StevieBC@00.32
“O wad some pow’r the gift to gie us, to see ourselves as ithers see us!”
Maybe not a dug but perhaps more self awareness.
I have to say, hats off to Craig Whyte, which is something I never thought I'd ever have to say, and to use another idiom, he's certainly thrown the cat amongst the pigeons with the release of his book.
One could never ask for better pre-release publicity for a book than to have media hacks falling out in print over it in the way we're seeing just now, but I do wonder if Craigie boy will make that much money as a result, as all the juicy bits will be plastered all over social media within days of it's release.
I also wonder if we'll ever see Whyte being interviewed about his book on TV, or even hear him on radio, having an opportunity to affirm what he says in a way that might beat the standard SMSM/ Ibrox/Traynor censorship? Actually, I doubt he'll ever be given such an opportunity to defend himself, or his book, in this way, for it would reach an audience that no other medium reaches.
Still, it may be hats off, but zero sympathy from me for the asset stripping rat!
Billy Boyce 10th February 2020 at 23:50
https://twitter.com/GrahamSpiers/status/1227012288101724164
From the Rangers statement
"The implication seems to be that the fault lies not with those who choose racism and abuse, but with a young immigrant who chose to come to our country. This is a deeply disturbing attitude and that it was actually expressed in a national newspaper defies belief."
One is forced to wonder about people who came to Scotland, who weren't actually immigrants. Should they just "go home". Is racism and abuse OK when it relates to them and their descendants who were born in Scotland.
Did someone break irony when I wasn't looking.
'The first thing to be made clear is that even though many others commented on the issue of abuse (racial and sectarian) directed towards Alfredo Morelos, Rangers had a duty of care not to say anything that might compromise a live Police Scotland investigation.'
An excerpt from that TRFC statement that falls, not only into the area of being an oxymoron, but is, unless I'm misinterpreting the meaning of sub judice, breaking the law* it claims to have previously been respecting.
They seem to fire-fight with buckets of paraffin more often than not, but get away with it because the media are part of the fire. But maybe, just maybe, some members of the media have realised they are about to get burned and are desperate to distance themselves from the ever burning Ibrox fire.
*But like most laws they break, nothing much will come of this latest careless reaction.
PS Just noticed, they've referred to the abuse they claim was hurled at Morelos as both racist and sectarian! Well there could only be one area of the crowd that any sectarian abuse hurled at a Catholic could possibly have come from, regardless of the man's colour, or even what team he plays for. I wonder if any media hack will pick up on that!
Homunculus 11th February 2020 at 09:31 From the Rangers statement "The implication seems to be that the fault lies not with those who choose racism and abuse, but with a young immigrant who chose to come to our country. This is a deeply disturbing attitude and that it was actually expressed in a national newspaper defies belief." One is forced to wonder about people who came to Scotland, who weren't actually immigrants. Should they just "go home". Is racism and abuse OK when it relates to them and their descendants who were born in Scotland. Did someone break irony when I wasn't looking.
______________
Amazing how they would conflate immigrants*, many who came to our country to escape famine and other horrors, with a man solely here to make lots of money from playing a game and who has absolutely no intention of remaining here once his contract is over.
He is not an immigrant, under any stretch of imagination. He is just a man lucky enough to be able to ply his lucrative trade in whatever country he can make most money. And then move on to the next.
* I think we can be pretty certain that this conflating is a deliberate attempt to embarrass Celtic supporters, and the club, by suggesting they are being somewhat hypocritical in the claimed abuse. Another mistake from a PR disaster.
I see John Hartson has posted that his friend and former teammate, Jackie McNamara, has collapsed at home on Saturday with a bleed on the brain. Jackie McNamara was one of those players no other club's supporters disliked, a very good footballer who never did anything to upset opposing fans. Always played, in my opinion, like a gentleman footballer.
My heartfelt best wishes go out to him and his family at this very trying time.
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1227250682828378113?s=21
You wait for ages to get a statement and then another comes along right behind it.
Ex Ludo
surely this wasn't written by an ex board member who was sacked for being..er…emmm,racist,crackpots
When will football fans and especially those speaking for 'fans groups' acknowledge that all clubs have their share of nutters and the larger clubs, in terms of probability, will have more nutters than others.
At some point one of these nutters will come and bite you in the bum if you get on your high horse about other clubs. (or if you are on a high horse someone may come along and punch it!!)
A wee while back Phil Mac posted a picture of the Hearts 'young team' as justification for his constant jibes that the Tynecastle club are a diet version of the club from Govan. A good deal of lads in the picture Phil chose were not much older than the 12 year old who is being reported as being under investigation for an incident at Celtic Park.
Hearts fans are well aware of the issues (mostly sectarian singing and flag waving crap, especially outwith the confines of Tynecastle and at away games) caused by a certain group of daft wee laddies. As far as I can see the vast majority condemn such behaviour but there is no doubt a pocket of neanderthals who think its all good fun.
We of course have to wait to see what comes out of the investigations into alleged racism by a 12 year old but everyone should be worried if it does turn out there is something in it.
I have seen some commentary on social media that seems to imply because its a 12 year old its not that bad.
Whether it be a Hoops fan of 12, a Hearts 'young team' member of 15 or 16 or a grown man at Ibrox, football as a whole should be calling them all out, when the evidence is there that racism has occurred, and this should especially be by the clubs that these people are purporting to support. End of.
Daft statements from the likes of Club 1872 help no-one.
wottpi 11th February 2020 at 16:44
When will football fans and especially those speaking for 'fans groups' acknowledge that all clubs have their share of nutters and the larger clubs, in terms of probability, will have more nutters than others.
======================
I was thinking much the same today. If every football club and its supporters looked inwardly and were honest they would admit that some of their fans indulge in abuse or chants that others find unacceptable, or may even be against the law. This could be racist, sectarian, point scoring over the tragedy of child abuse, or focusing on a misfortune which an opponent has suffered in his life.
That is why I find the attitude taken by Rangers and their fans group in the two recent statements truly baffling, because as a support they have been hugely guilty in the past of all that I mention. Even this season they have had part of their ground closed because of it.
Thy would do really well to get a new PR firm in with a totally different style. Not only would Scottish football benefit, Scottish society in general would as well.
tony 11th February 2020 at 16:04
Can you sense fury in every word.
Homunculus
i sense that irony has left the building down in sunny govan
My interest in the blog was reignited by MichaelStewartGate.
Derek McInnes seems to be taking a panning on Radio shortbread. Chris Commons was guest executioner. I presume he was recruited to alleviate the possibility of incriminating fingerprints.
A sacrifice is necessary to appease the gods.
Celtic refusing to cooperate with Sky Sports after Morelos mistranslation
Celtic are refusing to co-operate with Sky Sports as the Scottish champions pursue a full explanation for a mistranslated interview with the Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos.
In a major embarrassment for Sky, subtitles attached to Morelos, who spoke in Spanish, wrongly accused Celtic supporters of racially abusing the Colombian at the Old Firm match on 29 December.
Sky’s reporters were not welcome at Celtic’s pre-match press conference for Wednesday’s game at home to Hearts, as had been the case before last Sunday’s Scottish Cup tie against Clyde. Such a move is not typical of Celtic and illustrates the scale of their feeling. The broadcaster faces a race to resolve the matter before its live screening of Aberdeen v Celtic on Sunday.
After Celtic’s initial complaint, Sky admitted “inaccuracies” in the interview and removed it from all platforms before making a corrected version available. It said in a statement: “After numerous steps undertaken by Sky to verify the interview thoroughly we can be clear that at no point did Morelos allege that any racial abuse was directed at him by Celtic supporters in the interview. We apologise to the supporters of Celtic football club for this serious error. We are reviewing our procedures for translated interviews to ensure this does not occur in future.”
There was, though, no detail offered publicly or privately as to how this situation arose. Celtic remain angry with what they regard as the unsatisfactory nature of Sky’s response and have reported the situation to Ofcom.
This fall-out is all the more notable because Sky will begin an exclusive, five-year deal to screen live Scottish Premiership matches next season. Sky did not comment on this on Monday when approached by the Guardian. It has also been approached on Tuesday in relation to its lack of access to Celtic’s media briefings.
Ofcom is looking through complaints from Celtic supporters as well as from the club. An Ofcom spokesperson said: “We are assessing these complaints against our broadcasting rules, but have yet to decide whether or not to investigate.” This analysis typically takes around two weeks, with any formal investigation then usually completed within 50 working days.
Celtic have specifically demanded to know who was responsible for the translation. “The use of mistranslation to convey false meaning is a dangerous form of fake news which must be condemned and sanctioned,” said the club’s chief executive, Peter Lawwell.
upthehoops11th February 2020 at 19:39
Said along time ago, probably back on RTC, that a chance had been missed to bring football in Govan into the 21st Century.
Unfortunately for all of us the powers that be at both club and SFA/SPL allowed Ibrox to be solidly stuck in the past with all that pent up anger and entitlement along with the old school PR to support them.
About Police Scotland and Rangers.
Anyone remember PS's behaviour around Duff+Phelps?
"Lord Carlyle said they should not have seized the material as it breached the law".Glasgow Times
"nevertheless, the level of illegality is such that it can neither be condoned or countenanced not withstanding the relatively serious nature of the charge"Lord Carlyle.
Police Scotland have previous in losing the plot when it comes to matters involving the team which more than half its employees support.
Nearly 6 weeks after the event? I"ll apologise if I'm proved wrong on this but this 12 yr old wouldn't exist if Celtic hadn't gone to OFCOM. "He"ll" get off with a caution,his job done.
With all the attention grabbing noise around TRFC’s hapless PR management…
it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at the Blue Room.
I’m guessing that the occupants are otherwise focused on more mundane matters – like how to find £10M ASAP?
StevieBC
Can't ask Dave for it, someone took his wallet and laptop
wottpi 11th February 2020 at 21:40
'…the powers that be at both club and SFA/SPL allowed Ibrox to be solidly stuck in the past .'
+++++++++++++++
Another way of putting that, wottpi, is to say that the 'powers that be' created the myth that a club with a very long history but which nevertheless died and now belongs to the past is somehow still alive and stuck in the present!
I know what you mean, of course.
If the SFA and the SPL and SFL had taken a position based on sporting and business actuality and truth, the death of RFC of 1872 could have been used as a salutary lesson in the need to govern the sport properly, by ensuring that there was no room for lying basterts on club Boards, or collaborators in the SFA with such lying boards( and without independent investigation, how are we to know that there were no collaborators in the Res12 matter?)
If RFC of 1872 and TRFC of 2012 had each been dealt with as truth demanded, there would have been laid a solid groundwork of Truth and Integrity on which every aspect of the sport as sport, as entertainment, as honest value for money, as socially useful in the widest possible sense, bringing huge benefits to large numbers, could have been developed; and while there'rivalry' and perhaps dislike or even 'enmity' may have continued, these would have been based on sport rather than on race or religion or politics.
As is the case in perhaps every other sport in the world!
I met 'Rafa' Nadal on one of my trips to Brisbane. Great guy. I've never met Andy Murray. If the two were to meet in competition, my support for Murray would not be based on a 'hatred' for Nadal!
Watching 'Superbowl' I took sides, without my support for one team meaning that I was an enemy of the other or the supporters of the other.
Shouting in support of my granddaughters in swimming competitions does not mean that I wish the other competitors ill.
But if ,in any of the three scenarios I mentioned, there were to have been any suspicion of game rigging or fixing ( with or without the knowledge of the 'organisers' ) I would be enraged!
As would anyone who is not by nature a cheat-whether , in money dealings, in sport, or in life in general.
As ,sadly, so many folk in the governance of Scottish Football have shown themselves to be.
Stoutly supported by a lying SMSM.
StevieBC 11th February 2020 at 22:46
=================================
The interim report should be out before the end of February.
Where is the £10m coming from, though they will probably announce a half year "profit" like last year. Even when everyone knows football doesn't work that way.
Where is the promised "investment" in January the support were promised, Alex Rae wouldn't lie.
Who is replacing the Chairman as he stands down.
There are a lot of questions to deflect from, sorry answer.
misterlightbulbjoke 11th February 2020 at 22:06
'…Police Scotland have previous in losing the plot .'
+++++++++++++++++++++
Speaking as a humble member of the public, who has attended a number of court hearings related to things 'Rangers of 1872', and with no starry-eyed view of the legal profession, I can (I hope safely ) say that if the 'trial' of the Rangers thingymajig had been the theme of a film, nobody would have thought of it as bearing any more relevance to truth than a Laurel and Hardy cock-up!
Or to a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta.
All fun and laughs, with no serious intention.
Homunculus 11th February 2020 at 23:16
The interim report should be out before the end of February…
=======
Oh yes, I forgot about that.
I wonder if the – alleged – robbers also stole King's fag packet?
The fag packet upon which the highly creative, totally unaudited, interim numbers are scribbled?
And yes, it's going to be amusing to see how King calculates an 'interim profit' this year – when even the bears must have some awareness of the car crash numbers and the HUGE, SWIRLING RED FLAGS contained in the last RIFC accounts?
And these could be Interims issued for the first time ever by a 'Cold Shouldered' Chairman.
Another Ibrox world record…?
The way things are shaping up it appears that both *Rangers and Celtic are both simultaneously about to fall out with SKY. The question is “Who is going to blink first?”
It has been long argued that both clubs are mutually dependent and often act in concert to the detriment of Scottish football in general. The current situation following Translategate etc is a test for this point of view.
If what PMGB is saying in his latest blog proves to be accurate, then it looks like Succulent Jim might be sitting down to write his memoirs anytime soon. Might send a few people involved in Scottish football governance in recent years into a bit of a state
Should we start organising the whip-round now?
A whip-round to pay for a super injunction???
Allyjambo 12th February 2020 at 10:43
If what PMGB is saying in his latest blog proves to be accurate, then it looks like Succulent Jim might be sitting down to write his memoirs anytime soon…
=======
I did wonder yesterday about Spiers sharing an unusually specific/brave Twitter post… as if he knew for a fact that Traynor’s days were numbered.
And nobody can deny that Traynor does indeed have a fascinating story to tell from behind the lines at Ibrox.
However, it is also highly likely that he would write a book whose content – much like his PR output – bore little resemblance to the truth!
I’m sure that there will be a Non Disclosure Agreement element to Traynor’s handshake.
(Yes you can read that in two ways!)
https://twitter.com/kickinon20/status/1227555229132038144?s=21
A picture of Scottish football in happier times.
StevieBC 12th February 2020 at 11:48
'..nobody can deny that Traynor does indeed have a fascinating story to tell from behind the lines at Ibrox.'
++++++++++++++
I'm no employment law expert, but I suspect that if the Ibrox Board want to get rid of their PR man it will cost them a few bob: if they are legally able to sack him without risking an unfair dismissal suit, they'll have to buy his silence with a NDA;
and if they agree to let him go they'll have to agree a parting settlement that satisfies him.
At all events, it strikes me that the Ibrox board must really be composed of irresponsible and /or feckless members, to have been so foolish as to let the PR guru have a free hand in determining PR policy without Board approval, or, alternatively, to have themselves authorised the statement.
But then, what's new in the foolishness stakes as far as that Board are concerned?
Am I the only one who imagined the blue collar ne’er do well, exhausted from a hard day’s thievery, calling in at his local shop for a paper on his way home. And finding his wallet emptied, his cards raided and when he went to vent his fury Yosemite Sam fashion discovered somebody that day had also pinched the bullets out of his gun!
no? Just me then.
John Clark 12th February 2020 at 12:22
I may be wrong but I thought Traynor had left an employed role at Ibrox in favour of providing a PR service via his Level 5 Company.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24779284
If that's the case, there is no contract to be broken, just a contractual one between the 'club' and the PR company. That should be easier to break if it is considered his services are no longer up to desirable or up to scratch.
Like King and his Chairmanship, he may be portrayed as Rangers PR Man but isn't actually employed or acting in an 'official capacity' for the 'club'.
Happy to be corrected if anyone has other information to the contrary.
Wottpi@13.00
From what I recall Level 5 was launched in some style and were originally based in plush offices in Blythswood Square (on the square, so to speak) Murdo MacLeod featured in photos taken in the office at the launch. There may have been other clients but it soon became apparent that L5 had one exclusive client. JJ reports continually that the office is now situated within the Murray Park complex. Mr Traynor’s employment status is suitably opaque. The Eminence Gris if you will.
Ex Ludo 12th February 2020 at 13:26
Indeed, wouldn't it be a laugh if a certain PR consultant's activities warranted investigation under the IR35 legislation.
wottpi 12th February 2020 at 13:00
'..may be wrong but I thought Traynor had left an employed role at Ibro
Ex Ludo 12th February 2020 at 13:26
'…..Mr Traynor’s employment status is suitably opaque. The Eminence Gris if you will'
+++++++++++
Both of you are almost certainly correct in saying that the PR guru is not personally an employee of RIFC plc, but that his company is contracted on whatever basis to provide a PR service.
The main thing is that ending the contract will cost both parties a few bob and great embarrassment- settlement and NDA money on the one hand, and loss of future income on the other, as well as great damage to such residual 'reputation' as either has.
A marriage made in hell and ending in disaster!
wottpi 12th February 2020 at 14:15
'..wouldn't it be a laugh if a certain PR consultant's activities warranted investigation under the IR35 legislation.'
++++++++++++
I've just read the stuff on the changes to be made to the 'Private sector off-payroll working for clients' rules.
For the benefit of others
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/private-sector-off-payroll-working-for-clients
Very interesting, and I'm always startled to find out how little I know of tax laws and rules.And dismayed at how difficult I find it to understand the implications of particular changes or why they are made. I suppose the existing regime gives some sneaky advantage to people, and that HMRC wants to end that?
ohn Clark 12th February 2020 at 12:22 12 0 Rate This StevieBC 12th February 2020 at 11:48 '..nobody can deny that Traynor does indeed have a fascinating story to tell from behind the lines at Ibrox.' ++++++++++++++
I'm no employment law expert, but I suspect that if the Ibrox Board want to get rid of their PR man it will cost them a few bob: if they are legally able to sack him without risking an unfair dismissal suit, they'll have to buy his silence with a NDA; and if they agree to let him go they'll have to agree a parting settlement that satisfies him. At all events, it strikes me that the Ibrox board must really be composed of irresponsible and /or feckless members, to have been so foolish as to let the PR guru have a free hand in determining PR policy without Board approval, or, alternatively, to have themselves authorised the statement. But then, what's new in the foolishness stakes as far as that Board are concerned?
____________________-
And we know there was no approval given (by at least one board member or senior RIFC/TRFC employee)*, because..?
As you say, John, foolishness (and some even less desirable qualities) is an integral part of an Ibrox based football club's board member's DNA since the days of Craig Whyte, and maybe even David Murray, because even then they just let him get on with leading the club towards liquidation.
*Or, at least, an instruction to 'just get something out there, and turn the focus onto…'
Anent Traynor, whether employee or contractor (I thought the latter)
Various people on here a bit ahead of things? All based on PMGB's "developing story" which may develop as suggested or end up undeveloped like many others of his.
Yes I have my doubts about Phil’s predictions too. But Traynor will go at some point, with all those stories in his loving care.
bordersdon 12th February 2020 at 14:56
Agreed, however the mutterings of Michael Stewart are correct. The guy is a dinosaur and the club's PR is a disaster for anyone other than the gullibillies who lap such nonsense up.
Any professional and forward looking organisation would be looking for a change.
Of course given the current tactics of Trump and Johnson/Cummings some people may think this approach is very clever and goes down well with a certain audience.
Can't say its to my taste!!
Wottpi@14.50
IR35 is described in Wikipedia in the context of “disguised employees” This perhaps goes some way to explaining why a face painter was engaged by *Rangers from time to time. ? ? ?
Ex Ludo, That Face Painter on the list of creditors is easily the most famous face painter in history. Mentioned thousands of times. If I were he or she I would have exploited that by now. He or she should be the go to facial artist! Should be a household name! Maybe said person might consider hiring a PR guru?
bordersdon 12th February 2020 at 14:56
Anent Traynor, whether employee or contractor (I thought the latter) Various people on here a bit ahead of things?…
================
True.
I suppose the question for TRFC is: who would they get if they punted Traynor?
I’m guessing – as a one man band / one client business – he is relatively cheap as chips?
And it seems that his ‘virtual office’ at Blythswood Square has long been replaced with a desk at Murray Park – i.e. he is a virtual contractor, if not a real contractor?
For TRFC to bring in a decent, reputable PR outfit would – I guess – cost considerably more?
And all they really need is an unreconstructed media bully to keep the supine, Scottish hacks in check – nothing fancy required.
A decent organisation would have dispensed with Traynor’s services long before Lambogate / Transalationgate. [A decent organisation wouldn’t have engaged Traynor in the first place.]
So, he just might brass neck his way through this latest Ibrox crisis – all of his own making…
I would imagine the statement has Board approval as it is still on the website which means the Board aren't upset with Traynor or that King still has the final say in matters . That is if the Board can contact him seeing he has no phone and his back up laptop was also stolen in the latest robbery. I suppose the old saying "People in Charles Greenhouses shouldn't throw stones" rings true.
Anyone else, like me, hoping that Traynor remains in his guruificence for at least as long as TRFC remains in a different state than RFC?
He's such a character, he does mke me laugh
@AJ 17;44 there have been many characters in Football's longest running Farce that have been box office , Charles Green,Craig Whyte, Pedro , the Magic Hat and of course King himself but Traynor is just plain nasty . This time he may have gone too far and should he fall on his sword I won't miss him , he has been a poisonous element in our game for far too long. Of course the flip side to that is that he is also a negative for Rangers* never more so than now , maybe it's a case of Heads we win Tails he loses.
Allyjambo @ 17.44
————————
Yip. I'm with you AJ. They are made for each other!!
Timtim 12th February 2020 at 18:05
@AJ 17;44 there have been many characters in Football's longest running Farce that have been box office , Charles Green,Craig Whyte, Pedro , the Magic Hat and of course King himself but Traynor is just plain nasty . This time he may have gone too far and should he fall on his sword I won't miss him , he has been a poisonous element in our game for far too long. Of course the flip side to that is that he is also a negative for Rangers* never more so than now , maybe it's a case of Heads we win Tails he loses.
__________________
Totally agree with you that he's a nasty piece of work, but I think it's that nastiness that's led, in part, to his complete failure as a PR man, which has done so much to hold back TRFC's progress (if there has been progress). I think hubris and nastiness are good friends and cause blindness to one's own failings and failures. Traynor's greatest failing as a PR man, regardless of how much he knows of the art, itself, is that he's consistently been a part of the story, as he is now, which completely ruins even good PR manufacturing, let alone incompetent PR inventions.
I suppose, in this case he's actually turned the attention away from whatever it was TRFC wanted hidden. So credit where credit is due
It'll probably go down as Level5's greatest ever success
With a normal commercial arrangement, one would think that any contract put in place for PR services would have a clause covering what happens in the event that the contractor in some way brings the client into disrepute*.
In such circumstances the contract may well (should?) have a termination provision that leaves other obligations in place e.g. confidentiality.
*I eschew consideration of the ongoing reputational status of RIFC/TRFC. I believe that Mr Archer appropriately summed that up some years ago.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Imagine a farmer who is in financial trouble after the failure of his crops. Conventional loans are not an option but he does have one valuable asset:a shiny combine harvester.He can't sell it though as the farm badly needs it.What does he do? He finds someone that will give him emergency cash and in return he draws up a contract that gives his funder a 1/3 stake in the machine.Crops fail again sadly and the farmer needs cash again.He approaches his funder again and offers another 1/3 stake in the combine harvester.
PS, heard that after signing a new contract last March (tough month for football clubs) Alfredo Morelos is signing another one this February(also a tough month for football clubs).
the PR dept.are going to be up all night after tonight's games,time for traynor to earn a reprieve
Tony, apparently the Stevie G interview after the game, in Spanish, is saying the Ibrox club won 3-0 tonight. Honestly that guy Traynor!
Jimbo
That's appropriate as he will be getting the Spanish archer
Jimbo, during that post match interview you only had to look at Gerrard's coupon – which told you all you needed to know about the 'title challenge'.
No translation needed.
Aye, Traynor is going to have pull a massive squirrel out of his hat tomorrow.
Can't wait…
Winning the league was crucial to survival , they are all in . The only decision now is whether they throw millions more to survive or just call it a day . I believe an admin event is imminent now. (gut feeling)
Timtim
I feel the same way, if they go out of Europe and scottish Cup it's curtains for sevco
In the interests of symmetry,
RIFC could do the decent thing, [for once], and call an insolvency event on Friday / Valentine's Day…
And for completeness: a rambling, incoherent statement could also be released – late on Friday evening.
Timtim 12th February 2020 at 23:14
‘….I believe an admin event is imminent now. (gut feeling)’
And you, Timtim, presumably ( or am I being presumptuous?) are not even a creditor of TRFC!
I would imagine that a fair number of creditors are even now acting on their gut feeling and considering getting Counsel’s advice about trying to get monies owed to them ring-fenced against the possibility of a snap Admin?
Especially those creditors who swallow the myth of ‘continuity Rangers’, whose reasoning would be : they’ve done it before, they’ll do it again.
Jimbo@15.30
Kevin Bridges was probably the quickest off the mark and incorporated the face painters’ predicament into his contemporaneous stage act. The image of directors in the blue room with their faces painted like tigers springs to mind.
Out of interest what is the penalty for an insolvency event?
I believe it is a 15 pt reduction . King's latest drama (robbery and burglary) looks to gain sympathy from the hordes , he can now also blame Gerrard for the situation and claim he did his bit by backing him financially even though the players he got haven't actually been paid for yet. The foaming statements from Traynor reveal the level of pressure they are under . If they decide the league is lost then it's better to call Duff and Duffer sooner rather than later . Throwing more money in just to get to end of season intact doesn't solve any issues for next season . Do any of them really believe they can win a cup in Europe? A Scottish cup win does little to ease the balance sheet either. D Day may just have arrived.
I wonder what would mean more to TRFC now, a win at Tynecastle in the Scottish Cup, or a draw! Obviously going through to the next round is vital now, possibly even for their survival, but a replay at Ibrox, netting them, possibly, a million quid, might just be the difference between seeing out the season or not.
While not something the supporters would like, it must be a bit of a conundrum for the board. (Genuinely not suggesting they'd try to manufacture a draw, just that, financially, they might prefer it – and another couple of replays too)
Just one more piece of idle speculation of a type that's kept me entertained throughout the Rangers/Sevco Saga after a relatively long (for the Saga) spell of inactivity here. But as has been said on numerous occasions over the last 7 or 8 years, we certainly do live in interesting times.
When does the SDI situation crystallise? Is that the trigger? Big bad MA forcing the clumpany into admin? Not us Guv….a big boy (MA) did it and ran away.
Makes sense to do it this season as the points deduction can be used to partially explain away 10IAR. If only, etc….
So what's next if they do go into admin? A pre-pack? SDM to the rescue of new new 'Rangers'? Billionaires coming running?
And, disgustingly, a continuing 'history' for the new club of having 'won' past titles and cups?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Redlichtie@09.40
“Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath”
More than ever.
Admin? Too soon to say.
Gone 10.30 on the day after TRFC's title ambitions fell into terminal decline, almost 8 years to the day a similar thing had happened to Rangers. Anyone remember them?
Anyway, any breaking news, lads? 'Plastic pitch caused us 3 points' type of thing? 'Kilmarnock tried too hard – they're all out to stop us' sympathy search? 'Morelos' wife upset at recent publicity is affecting his form and the rest of the team' understandably lame excuse? Or have they used up all their PR ideas? Or, heaven forbid, have the SMSM hacks suddenly realised they've been taken for as big a ride as their fellow bears have and are saying 'no more' to Level5's p*sh handouts for them to print critique free?
Or have they just given up trying?
I suppose one of the benefits of the recent statements will be the total absence in future of racist/sectarian chants from TRFC fans . It would be impossible to sing them from their high horse , shirley ?
Just watched the Gerrard post match interview and have to say that, while clearly disappointed, he seems like a man now resigned to, and aware of, the true situation at his club. He sounded more of a realist than he, or any of his predecessors, had done before. Dare I say, he even sounded like this recent run of poor results was not entirely unexpected.
He appeared disappointed, but not gutted. Not like a man who'd just watched what was, almost certainly, that last nail being hammered into his title hope's coffin. His general demeanour suggested to me he knew someone held that final nail, but just didn't expect it to turn up so soon.
Can I just say something in Kilmarnock's favour? Their pies are legendary.
Likewise Redlichtie's Smokies.
I forgot Forfar Bridies and Dundee Jam.
Aberdeen Angus.
Nobody can accuse me of not supporting football Scotland wide.
paddy malarkey
As long as its a big white horse, they can sing what they want
Can I give a mention for the Ross County “Staggie pie” too. A tasty venison pie. On its introduction the now retired, and missed, stadium announcer Len was able to tell us “people ask are the pies dear? Of course they are deer ?!”
adam812
"Rangers fans react: Fury after Kilmarnock defeat as many criticise Steven Gerrard's tactics"
By Glasgow Times Sport
=========================
Hmmm, that's a headline you wouldn't typically see in Chris Jack's Glasgow Times.
Has Traynor finally run out of squirrels…?
adam812 13th February 2020 at 12:51
I bought eight legs of venison for £100 . Is that too dear ?
All this talk of Killie Pies. If memory serves me correctly they are not the same ones now as the original ones, which were produced by a local baker. Perhaps someone could clarify that?
Gullabillies. They are often accused of being hoodwinked by the media. But are they? The Ibrox fans can watch the games like the rest of us. I read today that they are gobsmacked by last night’s result v Kilmarnock. Because they were led to believe – by the media – after 29 December that they were going for 55. Really? They are not all stupid. As far as football goes Celtic were always in front of them. No surprises there.
Where they might be gullible is off the pitch. Believing in continuity myths. Club/company shit. Liquidation is liquidation.
I would like to believe if it happened to my club I would believe we are mark 2 of the founding club.
That bastert green has a lot to answer for.
But even worse, he got away with it by the sluts at Hampden. (Sluts not suits).
I didn't get Paddy's joke until I had read it for a 3rd time
As I was bored I decided to take a leaf out of JC's book and send an enquiring email to the national press club in Sth Africa asking for help in verifying King's recent claims (reminding them of Judge Southwoods comments) I will of course post any reply that is forthcoming. The Press back here seem to be rather muted today , resorting to questioning the referees ability and reporting a Rangers* fan heard someone from the Kilmarnock section racially abuse Morelos. Maybe Mr Traynor is having a day off or someone has just taken his shovel away from him. I also note it has all gone very quiet on the promise of that new share issue that was mentioned at the AGM , maybe they are too busy sorting out a new kit deal for next season . It has just all gone very calm all of a sudden but that's what happens just before a storm.
Looking for guidance . I was looking for something else and found a Rangers Football PLC , incorporated on November 16th , 2012 , and having the same company number as RIFC -SC437060 . Does that mean the holding company as a holding company of it's own ?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history (Incorporation ) Or just a bit of tidying up ?
upthehoops 13th February 2020 at 19:16
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All this talk of Killie Pies. If memory serves me correctly they are not the same ones now as the original ones, which were produced by a local baker. Perhaps someone could clarify that?
………………..
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/say-bye-killie-pie-brownings-7886098
……………………..
The feud also led to the breakdown of the 13-year relationship between the two.
paddy malarkey 13th February 2020 at 21:08
‘…was looking for something else and found a Rangers Football PLC , incorporated on November 16th , 2012 , and having the same company number as RIFC -SC437060 .’
No, paddym, just a change of name.
Remember,the plan was always to go public by setting up a plc of which the original shareholders would be those who swapped their SevcoScotland shares for shares in the new plc on the launch of the (misleading ,in my opinion) IPO.
It’s likely that CG and the others knew that he couldn’t use the name ‘Rangers Football Club plc’, because there had already been a ‘Rangers Football Club plc’, which was put into Administration then Liquidation ,and there are some rules enforced under the Companies Act 2006!
So he used a marginally different name ‘Rangers Football plc’ to get round that problem , then a few weeks later changed the name to the vainglorious ‘Rangers International Football Club plc’ to pretend that the investors would be investing in something big, ‘the most successful club in world football’ with 500 000 000 supporters world wide, ready to splash their cash!
As Josef G used to say, if you are going to lie, make the lie really big. People are more likely to believe it.
I mean, they all believed Keef’s ‘MBMB’ didn’t they?
A lesson that a certain PR guru certainly took on board.
John Clark 13th February 2020 at 21:59
Thanks for that , JC , and so eloquently put that even I understood it .
Some might remember that on 28 December 2019 I sent an email to Dr Candy of HES [Historic Environment Scotland] querying her decision not to amend the entry in their 'listed buildings' list, which clearly says that Ibrox stadium is the home of Rangers Football club of 1872, and querying her academic detachment if it allows her to accept an actual untruth ( or words to that effect-canny be arsed looking my email) to be printed in HES material.
I believe she dodged the column disgracefully (like our PR gurus and the SMSM generally) in a way which I find shocking in an 'academic'.
So I've sent this reminder.
To:Julie Candy
13 Feb at 22:42
Dear Dr Candy,
Busy as you no doubt are, it is now a fair number of weeks since I emailed you.
Might you by now be in a position to reply to me, please?
Yours sincerely,
JC'
___
What is it with people who choose not to reply to correspondence?
Have they no reply to make? Are they afraid to reply?
There is an actual untruth in an HES 'publication'-why won't they try to prove that it is not an untruth and just shut me up with their 'proof'?'
And what kind of 'academic' is it, that won't look at the facts, and to hell with propaganda?
Would I now trust any kind of 'research paper' published personally by Dr Candy?
Any more than I would trust a paper from Level 5?
Seriously: can it be, can it possibly be, that the tentacles of RFC of 1872 reach not only into the political government sphere and Edinburgh University 'academics' but into the public service that we directly pay for?
Dr Candy, if and when she replies, had better have a good explanation [ such as the SFA has not been able to supply] as to why HES believes that TRFC is Rangers of 1872!
Utter nonsense from 'football people' is one thing.
For any kind of professed academic to subscribe to that nonsense is something quite different.
paddy malarkey 13th February 2020 at 22:35
'..Thanks for that , JC , and so eloquently put that even I understood it .'
_______________
The really important thing , I think, is that guys like you and me, should keep asking questions to force the smart guys to explain their actions in words and language that we understand .
If the smart guys are speaking truth, and we can see the truth in their explanations, great. No problem.
The problem lies( huh!) with secrecy, non-communication, false communications….
I expect that of the SFA and SMSM.
I did not expect it of 'academics'.
Bloody well annoys me , to tell the truth, if any academic bows to 'political' pressure.
Eppure si muove , said your man Galileo Galilei ( under his breath, granted!)
https://twitter.com/physiomac/status/1228058698569797632?s=21
A wee diversion.
Ex Ludo 14th February 2020 at 00:40
'..A wee diversion.'
________
Nay, rather a wee reminder of hard facts!
"Third Lanark went out of business in 1967 as a result of mismanagement"
As did Rangers of 1872,
Scottish Football Governance was quite happy to accept the death of Third Lanark then.,caused by mismanagement !
How absolutely corrupt must they be to have accepted in more recent times actual cheating , proven cheating, and to have manufactured a wholly ridiculous lie to protect the most cheating football club there ever has been!
Honest to God.
John Clark 14th February 2020 at 01:06
Nay, rather a wee reminder of hard facts!
"Third Lanark went out of business in 1967 as a result of mismanagement"
==========
They did, and it remains a tragedy. Last year I went to see Cathkin Park for the first time. I have been to Hampden countless times but never did I ever take that 10 minutes out to see the famous old ground nearby. It was a weekday, very peaceful, and the sun was shining. I was delighted to see that areas of the terracing are being restored, and the crush barriers have been painted. There was something very poignant just standing there leaning against a barrier, thinking of what once was. An older gent I spoke to told me football anoraks from all over the UK come to see the ground. Reading the history of their demise shows how it just didn't need to happen. I believe the club who benefited most from their demise was the fairly nearby Pollok Juniors, as the Thirds Fans could not support another senior team, and who could blame them. Your team, and memories of your team are for life.
I know that other organisations have been very poor, to say the least, at responding to emails, letters etc so well done to the office of the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland for getting back to me so quickly.
I am posting the response in full but without naming the responder respecting GDPR. The email is ended by a number of standard statements including "Any views expressed by the sender of this email are not necessarily those of Children & Young People’s Commissioner Scotland."
"Thank you for sending on the article. I have discussed your concerns about the wording you have highlighted with our Head of Advice and Investigations. We do not believe that the text implies guilt and in any case it does not identify the young person involved. In terms of fairness in the legal process, the law requires the Children’s Reporter or the Procurator Fiscal to ensure that the necessary evidential standard is met before proceeding any further and those decisions can be tested in court.
However, if you would like a further opinion on this, you may wish to contact the Independent Press Standards Organisation who are the independent regulators for the UK newspaper and magazine industry (https://www.ipso.co.uk/contact-us/) for their advice.
Should the young person themselves have any concerns, they could of course contact us directly for advice."
I have not received any response, even an acknowledgement, regarding my email to the office of the Children's Reporter
Had a quick look around the online media this morning and the general theme is 'where did it all go wrong for Rangers?'. Aside from the fact the league is not over yet I Simply can't understand why Rangers could end 2019 on such a high, then effectively go to war with the world. Why not take the plaudits, and keep focused on the park? Instead they went straight onto the attack and entered a disastrous PR campaign surrounding their star player. This has resulted in a complaint to Ofcom which Rangers, or someone working on their behalf may be implicated in, and some mainstream media people actually putting their head above the parapet to criticise the absolutely ridiculous nature of the PR coming from Ibrox.
It was all so unnecessary, and I would not bet against Steven Gerrard thinking that too.
I don't think you'd have seen an article like this a few weeks ago:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18232998.steven-gerrard-went-wrong-rangers-bid-premiership/
J.J I think that article could also be shrunk right down to the main point;
"It was the Winter Break's fault!"
https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/249121-the-chronicles-of-the-banter-years-2012-%E2%88%9E/
A great compilation of the banter years , some great memories
Timtimi will keep that for tonight with a wee half
upthehoops 14th February 2020 at 10:52:
My view:
TRFC made a decision to go ‘all in’ with Morelos this transfer-window just past.
This was probably in train way before they ‘won the league’ (
) on 29.12.19.
This has back-fired on them, bigly: the sending-off & subsequent ban, the gestures, the long investigation into allegations of racism towards him, Lambogate, Skygate, the ever-more ludicrous transfer speculation (Barcelona! No, it’s Liverpool!) etc. etc.
As a consequence of all the attention, Morelos’ head has been affected: worse than that, team unity has suffered. Look at the results since the break; I wonder how many players feel ‘unloved’, simply because all the attention is focused on one individual? Certain players barely broke a sweat against Killie; that would indicate that the manager is in danger of ‘losing the dressing-room’. The worry there is that, in the current first-team squad, TRFC seem to lack an individual strong-minded enough to pull them back together. Even the manager’s default is to blame the players’ lack of mental strength. Gerrard himself has questions to answer: his inexperience is showing through as it did at a similar period last season. Hasn’t he learned?
Finally, TRFC’s response to anything ‘bad’ is to appeal to the staunchness of their fans: WATP. They, and their PR guru, appeared to have control of the SMSM & could plant the most ridiculous stories, knowing that the sycophantic Chrisses & Keiths would happily run them. It’s strange that Skygate has made the turgid worm that is the Scottish media begin to turn & reconsider its position, at least temporarily. Has someone told Traynor that, when you’re waist-deep in sh*t, you don’t go snorkelling?
adam812 14th February 2020 at 09:44
‘…so well done to the office of the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland for getting back to me so quickly.’
===============
That was an excellent response you got, adam812,and speaks volumes for the fundamental honesty and sensible management of the CYPCS.
It is that kind of response that we ought to expect as a matter of course from our public bodies, large corporations and the governance bodies of our sports organisations.
Allowing for all necessary and legally required confidentiality when we ask questions about their use of their powers etc, such agencies should be prepared to provide reasoned responses justifying their actions, or, if necessary, apologising for errors or misuse of their powers.
Failing to do so, or simply ignoring questions, leads one to believe they have no proper justification and/or have something to hide.
As I believe ,for example, that the SFA have.
Rangers* have served proceedings on Elite Sports for £2.8m for the amount they say they are owed for supply of kits and other products. So Elite have decided not to cave in and part with the money that will probably be due to Ashley anyway . Remember that Elite do have indemnity from Rangers* should SDI come calling . It's all getting a bit messy (and expensive) . On the plus side they now have one more party to blame for their troubles .Elite can join Gerrard , SDI , corrupt refs , racist children , the Corona virus , Close Leasing and the unseen Vatican hand that controls the SFA. Pity tho as I'm sure that £2.8m would be very handy right now.
“Timtim 14th February 2020 at 17:09
Rangers* have served proceedings on Elite Sports for £2.8m for the amount they say they are owed for supply of kits and other products. So Elite have decided not to cave in and part with the money that will probably be due to Ashley anyway . Remember that Elite do have indemnity from Rangers* should SDI come calling . It’s all getting a bit messy (and expensive) . On the plus side they now have one more party to blame for their troubles .Elite can join Gerrard , SDI , corrupt refs , racist children , the Corona virus , Close Leasing and the unseen Vatican hand that controls the SFA. Pity tho as I’m sure that £2.8m would be very handy right now.”
If I was SDI, I’d be making an application to the appropriate court to have this money placed in escrow of some kind. There is likely to be a substantial award in SDI’s favour in the near future and this cash due from Elite, if it gets into the hands of Rangers*, will disappear like sna’ aff a dyke.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
https://twitter.com/dbestseventy2/status/1228305559679651840?s=21
Apparently there’s more than one way to become a billionaire.
Timtim 14th February 2020 at 17:09
"..Rangers* have served proceedings on Elite Sports."
+++++++++++++
Good spot, Timtim!
The full statement
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-91/
"THE Rangers Football Club Limited (Rangers) has served proceedings on LBJ Sports Apparel Limited trading as Elite for payment of the sum of £2,840,236.75 plus interest and expenses.
The payment relates to sums that require to be paid to Rangers by Elite in terms of the Agreement between Rangers, Elite and Hummel A/S for the manufacture and supply of Rangers Kit and other products."
I'm pretty sure that currently, RIFC/TRFC has a list of aged, overdue supplier payments – as long as the Clyde – and growing daily.
Now, if I was a p!ssed off supplier, and I read about these proceedings against Elite, I'd be thinking;
– that's rich! [pardon the pun]
– well if they think it's OK to take a business partner to Court over unpaid monies, I just might get a bit stroppier when getting fobbed off by the Ibrox Finance Department, when I ask about my own money due.
– IF RIFC/TRFC somehow secured c.£3M cash, then I'd be at their door ASAP demanding my money – or the bailiffs are coming instead…along with a few others perhaps…?
Doubt that RIFC/TRFC will see the cash, but if they did then everybody and their dug would be lining up to collect their cash – as they know there is cash at Ibrox but only very temporarily!
The next move should see SDI approach Elite for that same 2.8m which would allow Elite to then invoke their indemnity clause which would then see Rangers* having to then fight SDI to keep the money they haven't got yet. What is guaranteed is the lawyers will end up with a hefty amount as always , so Rangers* may just have set off another chain of events in which they end up out of pocket . Either they haven't thought this out properly which is quite feasible or they are totally desperate for cash and are trying their luck also quite feasible. If anyone is going to come to a deal here it will be SDI and Elite.
Manchester City well and truly f f p’d by UEFA this evening. I’m hoping that the SFA are paying attention.
It is science fiction at present but a Brazilian drama on Netflix may suggest a way of solving sectarian and racist abuse once and for all!
In Omniscient everyone has a very small personal surveillance drone that monitors them 24 hours a day. Contravention of the rules of law results in a punishment immediately with no chance of challenging the ruling because audio and video evidence proves it.
It got me thinking that it sounds a great solution for us in Scotland but then think about who sets the parameters?
Just consider if the company running it in Scotland was called Surveillance For All would we be confident that the drone master would work in everyone's interest without fear or favour?
I wish to make it clear that I abhor sectarianism and racism and the above is not meant to minimise the harm it causes. I welcome every step to stamp it out but this must be carried without fear or favour. Uefa has done it so it is possible.
Spoiler alert it's not straightforward in Omniscient either
Ex Ludo 14th February 2020 at 19:21
But they are too big to be punished in this way.
Wait, where have I heard something like that before.
Timtim 14th February 2020 at 19:16
‘…or they are totally desperate for cash…’
Does lodging a claim for payment of a debt supposedly owed to it allow a Company to state the debt due as an asset when doing their accounts, for the purposes of showing that it isot insolvent?
Ex Ludo 14th February 2020 at 19:21
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51510284
The limit is 25m losses over 3 years the last 2 seasons saw losses of 14.3m and 11.3m , while there is some leeway taken into account for infrastructure spending it leaves very little wiggle room with the 2019/20 figures . I believe the 2.8m they are currently fighting for was counted as an asset so this figure can now be added to the shortfall which was conservatively thought to be 10m . If Uefa can bar Man City they will have no issue in barring Rangers* and the income from Europe is a crucial component for them to function. Giving Gerrard and Morelos bumper long term contracts in the hope of cashing in should other clubs come calling may have backfired . If the Gerrard project implodes then it will be very expensive to pay him off , similarly if Morelos loses form and resorts to ill discipline then he along with Kent will be burning a hole in the pocket . Finally some good news , as far as I know Dave King wasn’t robbed at gunpoint today.
@JC I hadn’t seen your question before posting I can only assume we are developing a psychic understanding lol.
BBC report on Man City European ban.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51510284
This paragraph stood out to me;
"Clubs need to balance football-related expenditure – transfers and wages – with television and ticket income, plus revenues raised by their commercial departments. Money spent on stadiums, training facilities, youth development or community projects is exempt."
That reads to me that Director loans should not be used for football-related expenditure, (transfers and player wages etc.). I can't believe the many millions "loaned" to 2angers were all spent on stadium maintenance, youth development and community projects. Hence they would appear to be in direct contravention of these rules???
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
Normanbatesmumfc
And that is why the SFA have " no apetite for FFP " coz The Rangers would be Fecked
Pep Guardiola is consulting with Sandy Bryson as I type this. No worries now.
https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/ljb-elite-newco-partner-with-200-shareholder-value/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
An interesting article on Elite , could it be possible that King really was duped . Elite siphon off the cash ,go into admin , SDI sues Elite , Elite refers them to Rangers* due to indemnity so not only do Rangers* not get anything from Elite they get an extra 2.8m bill from SDI .
John Clark 14th February 2020 at 19:44
Timtim 14th February 2020 at 19:16 ‘…or they are totally desperate for cash…’
Does lodging a claim for payment of a debt supposedly owed to it allow a Company to state the debt due as an asset when doing their accounts, for the purposes of showing that it isot insolvent?
===========
Good shout there JC!
In the RIFC audited accounts – at best – the claim could be a Note to the accounts as a Contingent Asset. It wouldn’t be included in the numbers in the Accounts though.
BUT
if you were the ‘highly creative’, unqualified accountant Dave King – and you hadn’t yet been robbed of that fag packet…
then you could – absolutely – recklessly add the full £2.8M to your totally unaudited Interims – due out this month!
Ha!
He wouldn’t… would he…?
According to an earlier court document, the Hummel/Elite/TRFC agreement makes the following reference, "At page 6, Hummel agreed that in the event of Elite’s insolvency, Hummel would undertake Elite’s obligations and undertakings."
Timtim 14th February 2020 at 17:09
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Rangers* have served proceedings on Elite Sports for £2.8m for the amount they say they are owed for supply of kits and other products. So Elite have decided not to cave in and part with the money that will probably be due to Ashley anyway . Remember that Elite do have indemnity from Rangers* should SDI come calling . It’s all getting a bit messy (and expensive)
………………….
I believe that shirts have to be registered by 30, june each year. If these court cases drag on, and we know they do drag on, it does not leave the ibrox club much time to have these court cases concluded, find a new supplier and and kit maker. Or is the ibrox club not thinking too far ahead to worry about this?
And after all the court cases who would do business with the club? It will be very hard and a long slog before any kit maker and supplier would put pen to paper on an agreement with the ibrox club.
John Clark 14th February 2020 at 19:44
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Timtim 14th February 2020 at 19:16
‘…or they are totally desperate for cash…’
Does lodging a claim for payment of a debt supposedly owed to it allow a Company to state the debt due as an asset when doing their accounts, for the purposes of showing that it isot insolvent?
……………….
https://twitter.com/JBLuvsCeltic/status/1228416784950185984/photo/1
John Bradshaw
@JBLuvsCeltic
This is the balance sheet (albeit end of 2018) of LBJ Sports (aka Elite), from whom Rangers seek to recover £2,840,236.75.
Good luck with that.
Timtim 14th February 2020 at 20:05
'..@JC I hadn’t seen your question before posting I can only assume we are developing a psychic understanding lol.'
_______________
My favourite chocolate biscuits when visiting the grandweans in Brisbane are called 'Timtams':
psychic understanding via chocky bickies and blog names?
But wheesht! People may begin to talk!
I think you and StevieBC (@21.17) answered what was tugging at my memory about 'contingent assets'.
What I had been thinking about was the occasion when a creditor of TRFC had sought 'ring-fencing' of the money he was owed, arguing that at the time there was every likelihood that insolvency was looming, and he wanted to make sure the money would be there to pay him!( I would need to look up the record to see what case that was), and my thoughts were on how exactly the judge decided that Administration was not likely, and could he have been informed that there were 'contingent assets' -monies that might come in if certain things in the pipeline happened.
That business was conducted in the judge's chambers, so I never heard the grounds for the judge's decision. [This is not in any way to suggest that anything other than the legitimate protection of commercially sensitive information was involved!]
Cluster One 14th February 2020 at 23:05
your twitter link to JBLuvsCeltic
+++++++++++
Again, Cluster One, what a handy post ( I have a Twitter account, but very ,very seldom look at it and never now post on it, my last tweet being to James Dolman during the 'trial')
easyJambo 14th February 2020 at 22:32
'…Hummel would undertake Elite’s obligations and undertakings."
++++++++++++++++
I wonder, eJ, whether that undertaking would extend to accepting liability for 'obligations and undertakings' that Elite entered into without ensuring that the party with whom they were contracting were legally free to contract with them?
The argument would be that Elite owed it to itself, never mind anyone else, to ensure that TRFC were legally free to switch suppliers. They must be expected to have known that TRFC was in contract with SDIR, and should therefore have ensured that TRFC was legally free to end that contract , or depart from its terms, and offer them a contract.
The argument would then be that Hummel had no obligation for debts incurred by a feckless company which incurred those debts negligently and with a reckless disregard of sound commercial practice and the need for 'due diligence' before any business transaction?
From the use of the words ' and expenses' in the TRFC statement, I assume that the action will be in the Scottish Courts? In England and Wales, the word 'costs' is used.
I hope it is here, for I enjoy my wee trips to the Court of Session.
And, seriously, I would encourage anyone whose only knowledge of 'court' is based on TV to take the time to wander in to any Court room where any kind of legal action is being pursued and sit for an hour or two, or as long as your bum (in the older court rooms) can stand [?sit?] the strain.
I say this because I was alarmed today when I read about the 'take back control from the Courts' plans of the new UK Attorney General.
A man called Adolph had similar plans, and carried them into effect.
Any suggestion that the government of the day should tell the judiciary how they should apply the laws that Parliament has passed is absolutely monstrous. Not an opinion of mine, but an absolute fact!
@ JC 23;12
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/26333152
I think as well as Imran Ahmed there was also a failed attempt to ring fence cash from the WiFi company , there was two successful attempts to ring fence cash at Ibrox from Martin Bain and Donald McIntyre but that was with the original club*.
JohnClark@00.32
“I say this because I was alarmed today when I read about the 'take back control from the Courts' plans of the new UK Attorney General.”
If that doesn’t work for the new AG she can always take a leaf out of the SFA playbook and start appointing tame judges like LNS. Without getting too political on here there are ominous signs that the UK is going down a dark path.
What are we to make of the reported attack on James Traynor?
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18237937.police-probe-attack-rangers-media-boss-jim-traynor/
Do I believe any such thing happened?
Do I believe anything that Traynor ever utters?
He has blown his 'professional' credibility sky-(Ha!)high and every word he now utters has to be taken with a handful of salt.
Having said that, I would take no pleasure or enjoyment if on this occasion the man might be telling the truth, and would hope that the assailants were caught and dealt with appropriately.
I would take a great deal of pleasure, however, if it were to be discovered that the story is fake news.
Ex Ludo – well whatever happens post-Brexit we're going to get 'rag dolled' by the Yanks in any trade deal.
To state the bleedin' obvious.
https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/1228593053629370369
???????????
Corrupt official
could it be the reason celtic where reported to be hoarding money?compensation for victims of child abuse?
StevieBC@09.57
The “rag-dolling” has already started in European airports as the British are being directed to the non EU gates. It’ll get really interesting when holiday flights from Glasgow, Manchester and Luton arrive in places like Paphos and Alicante within a 30 minute time slot.
John Clark 14th February 2020 at 23:52
The argument would be that Elite owed it to itself, never mind anyone else, to ensure that TRFC were legally free to switch suppliers. They must be expected to have known that TRFC was in contract with SDIR, and should therefore have ensured that TRFC was legally free to end that contract , or depart from its terms, and offer them a contract.
==============================
Mark Underwood is the MD of Elite. I'm not sure what "All" in his tweet means though.
Tony
Thats the first thing I thought on too but if I remember correctly ,Im sure someone pointed out thet the Celtic Boys club were in fact a totally separate club/entity and not officially part of Celtic FC. If that was the case then would it not be them who are liable for any compensation towards their victims ? Maybe Celtic are doing the right thing and taking on the responsibility ? Really dont know, just guessing here . Dont see it being anything about Sky gate . Thomsons a big hitter , dont think he would be interested in that ?
Easyjambo@10.55
The “all” is quite ominous. It’s not like he would normally respond to a random tweet like that.
Ex Ludo 15th February 2020 at 11:00
Easyjambo@10.55
The “all” is quite ominous. It’s not like he would normally respond to a random tweet like that.
———————————————————————————————————-
Isn't it just! Most unusual for an MD to comment in such terms in a public forum about a commercial agreement and related court proceedings.
Where's the popcorn?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
roddybhoy
yes they where a different entity,just guessing on my part,if it is to do with child abuse then i think thompson has went about it badly,all very tacky,gimme likes and faves
tony 15th February 2020 at 10:40
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Corrupt official
could it be
A Takeover?
A massive kit deal?
Movement of the SFA on the granting of a european licence to rangers?
skygate?
There are a whole host of reasons for the tweet but for some reason victims of child abuse? is first off the mark.
Read earlier that Thompson has advised FF that they’re “wide of the mark” ref their glee about the boys club stuff..
Early quotes from “Into The Bearpit” :
On administration as a legitimate business tool :
“I saw how things could be done and how ailing businesses could be restructured. The lesson was not to get too attached to one legal entity. ……Yes there were creditors who didn’t get paid, but equally there were debtors who didn’t pay me. It’s a risk you take if you extend credit to someone.”
“You take a firm through the insolvency process and sometimes creditors get left behind.”
On disqualification as a director :
“Banning problem directors doesn’t curb their activities. Anyone with half a brain can get around it…..It didn’t affect me one iota.”
On tax :
“I didn’t like paying tax – I still don’t…”
“My view on tax is that transactions between people should be voluntary, and that goes for the government as well. Tax havens are completely moral as they stop governments from stealing your money. Governments are basically shakedown organisations, like the mafia, but with better manners. They are parasites with no morals whatsoever.”
A case of it takes one to know one?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Re JabbaGate.
I'm pretty sure that just because you've been, or used, an Attack Dog for years without any blowback it ill behoves you to complain when you meet a Guard Dog.
I'm also pretty sure that one's date of birth or weight play no part in mitigating your behaviour, in words or deeds, which were described, accurately as it transpires, by Michael Stewart. "Bully":- cf Statements ad nauseam. "Dangerous character":- cf any number of incendiary machinations; although it's the sign of a Mindermast when you create danger for yourself.
I've tried viewing JabbaGate (assuming it's true and given the subject that's not a given) with sympathy and/or empathy but that's not going to happen.
Sympathy would involve misfortune and there's no fortune about it. It's cold, calculated, deliberate behaviour by Jabba and any reaction is down to Jabba. Arsonists should not get a karaoke prize for singing Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.
Empathy would involve putting yourself in Jabba's place. No thank you. I couldn't do it and if I could I would worry.
Desperate times require desperate squirrels.
Meanwhile in South Africa:-
Man who has made a career out of ripping people off is mugged and has his house burgled.
Or maybe not.
Cluster One 15th February 2020 at 11:39
My own automatic thoughts were that it's to do with the Sky fallout. Hopefully something that throws more light, particularly down south, on the ludicrous succulence that still emanates from within the SMSM. Oh, and also throws that same light on the recent outbreak of 'assaults' against a couple of top drawer Ibrox based liars, both north and south of the Limpopo.
LUGOSI 15th February 2020 at 11:48
I've a feeling that if Jabbagate has some substance, it'll turn out to be a bit like Busgate, where Celtic supporters were initially blamed, but ended up without any such connection.
I would love it to be something about Jabba or Sky or both but would Thomson be interested in something like that ?? Really no idea whats going on. He had a potential HUGE story that involved fraud , EBTs, the SFA ,a bank and a knight of the realm . He skirted round the edges and never really got into it and gave me impression the story was nt big enough for him so Im baffled. Takeover ( though thats not as big a story as the EBTs etc surely ) , maybe . Would explain Celtics sudden action after years of inaction regards skygate…….protect the brand and all that !
Cluster One
hope it is wide of the mark,pretty shitty way to announce something like that,
redlichtie 15th February 2020 at 11:40
=================================
To be fair on Craig he clearly never uses roads, hospitals, education, the Police service etc so why should he pay tax.
tony 15th February 2020 at 10:40
Corrupt official could it be the reason
=====================================
Dunno Tony as it could be any number of things, but I wouldn't expect Tommo to inject a teaser this way heralding bad news. …..Don't quote me on that tho'.
I’ll have to listen to the “Off The Ball” podcast later (unless it is pulled by the BBC for some reason)
. Craig Whyte was on the show promoting his book.
One of the questions apparently asked was:
Stuart Cosgrove: Are Rangers a new club?
Craig Whyte: Yes, obviously they are.
I think I can hear the clatter of multiple keyboards as emails are sent to the BBC Complaints department.
Corrupt official
true,and i also wouldn't think he would be there to tell us we've signed up to adidas,think we have narrowed it down to sky
easyjambo – Off The Ball is live on the BBC site at the moment. I'm rewinding to the start to hopefully listen to the CW segment.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Looks like Alex Thomson tweet is indeed about historical child abuse re Celtic. Perhaps it will put an end to the point scoring. Aye right.
Re what Alex Thomson's tweet is hinting about, I see there's a new piece today on Celtic Quick News stating that he has been in Glasgow this past week "working on a piece about historic child abuse". If his tweet relates to that, as seems likely, his cavalier clickbait approach to it is rather unseemly for a normally serious journalist.
Thomson appears to be inviting speculation.
His tweet of 9 February states "Today it is Keith, Tarves, Braemar, Perth and back to Glasgow."
He recently tweeted something about Aviemore.
I thought White's Grantown -on-Spey pile had been repossessed?
What might any of this have to do with Celtic??
EJ at 13.43
——————————————
Transcript of interview.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51515862
Cosgrove and his pal long ago decided (under instruction??) not to go anywhere near the OC/NC issue.
Didn't realise that the TRFC v. Livi game had been postponed…
and just heard it is now scheduled for TOMORROW.
I've never known a postponement to be played so quickly, (European games excepted).
bordersdon 15th February 2020 at 16:36
Transcript of interview.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51515862
Cosgrove and his pal long ago decided (under instruction??) not to go anywhere near the OC/NC issue.
———————————————————————————
Q: One emotionally very, very divisive issue, which to this day divides Scottish football, and that is are Rangers a new club? What's your view?
CW: Yes, obviously they are.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
I have no idea what Alex Thomson is doing with his tweet but have a read at this piece by The Clumpany and then perhaps leave it alone. The subject matter is both sensitive and serious and I for one will not make any further comment.
https://twitter.com/theclumpany/status/1228672850074226688?s=21
Mmmm….
https://twitter.com/pmacgiollabhain/status/1228715604527452160?s=21
If Elite are holding onto about £2.5m and not paying it over to Rangers one has to suspect that there are serious cash flow issues at the club just now.
They are already predicting a £10m shortfall in the accounts this year which clearly has a huge effect on turnover / losses, but cash flow problems will cause a more immediate impact.
Anyway, the game at Ibrox postponed today is apparently being played tomorrow, that seems quite quick.
Don't know the issues with the ibrox game being cancelled, but i believe they had a new hybrid pitch installed not long ago, the last time an ibrox club had a game cancelled the ibrox fans stormed the gates at ibrox, king was calling for an AGM and the ibrox club looked to morgage their ground for a £10mill loan.
…………………………..
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1228777779619155969/photo/1
Last week I was joking about whether King had cut costs at Ibrox – by getting rid of the ground staff – because the Ibrox pitch looked so terrible against Hibs.
There’s been a fair amount of rain today
: will be interesting to see how the pitch looks tomorrow for the rapidly rearranged game…
[Edit]
CO, I wonder if they have the same hybrid pitch that CFC got a couple of years ago: it was really poor in Nov/Dec ’18 and I think it was repaired / replaced?
StevieBC 15th February 2020 at 20:32
There’s been a fair amount of rain today
……………….
Rain due this evening and tomorrow. if it is not playable today? how can it go ahead tomorrow?
……………….
wonder if they have the same hybrid pitch that CFC got a couple of years ago:
……………….
Was looking for that, to see if it was a pitch problem or weather problem or both, we may get more information tomorrow
Homunculus 15th February 2020 at 19:56
'….Anyway, the game at Ibrox postponed today is apparently being played tomorrow, that seems quite quick.'
________________
Yes, turnstile cash must be urgently required to keep the lights on!
Is there any way [ in terms of time sequence] that the broadcasting by Cosgrove and Cowan of CW's bold assertion of what we know to be the actual factual truth was deliberately done as a diversionary tactic to channel the rage (that will be generated if TRFC enters Administration this week) away from the Board?
As others have already said: how in heaven's name is the Ibrox pitch , with continuing heavy rain forecast, 'guaranteed' to be more playable on tomorrow than today.?
Why the urgency that requires that the game must be played tomorrow, if it be unrelated to the need for instant cash?
One wonders, while, actually, not 'wondering 'at all!
As for CW, I have dredged up from a very old memory a phrase that I then had to look up :
"Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;"
Whatever untruths CW may have told to SDM and others of the same kind of character as he is, I'm happy to apply that phrase to him, for his bold assertion of the actual factual truth that TRFC is a new football club!
Probably stating the bleedin' obvious here…
It may have happened in the past – but I'm not aware of any weather-postponed Scottish league match being rearranged for the next day.
Logistics alone (policing, security and catering staffing, etc) would suggest a date several days ahead would be needed.
The inconvenience to the fans would be considerable.
It would likely take a monumental effort to organise the management of a major sporting event (with up to 50,000 attendees) in the 2 hours that it took today.
Policing and staff costs for today will need to be paid… and again tomorrow, whether or not it goes ahead. But, is there any greater likelihood of a match being played tomorrow? It's possible, but the forecast is not particularly favourable.
Why take the chance when the weather for Monday is forecast to begin to ease off?
Why take this Hail Mary of trying to get the game played tomorrow?
Is it to do with TRFC's deal with its season ticket finance company- I think, "Premier Credit"?
If the ST money is only released on a game-by-game basis, a home match is likely to bring in around £1m to the Ibrox club. It makes no difference (to the release of the ST monies) whether the fans turn up or not.
Assuming I am right, why would one day make a difference?
What needs to be paid on Monday that is so pressing that it dictates that they must try to play the game tomorrow?
Interesting times…
… just to add.
If I am right, today says that the spfl are "in the loop" wrt TRFC's apparently dire financial constraints.
How much turnstile cash do they take in at an avg game ? I think they sold 47k STs so minus the 800 spaces for away fans and the seats taken up through segregation there must be less than 2k seats available for sale which equates to less than Jermaine Defoes weekly pay packet. Not sure how the rest of the income is accounted for ,catering , programme sales , advertising etc or what the profit margins are on them but every game also has associated costs ,policing,stewarding, turnstile operators and other game day employee wages so the amount of extra cash generated will be negligible . Of course playing the game will release the ST funds that are being held and released on a game to game basis . I believe they will be struggling to pay this months wage bill especially if Close have called in their loan as is being suggested elsewhere .
As far as I know the Close loan is secured so failure to pay it may not trigger administration as Close would initially take the assets in lieu of payment, it would however alert all other creditors to the situation and certainly restrict their ability to raise funding . It may lead to an attempt to ring fence any cash which would if granted tip the scales towards administration. The problem this time is that a large chunk of the money owed are footballing debts that would have to be honoured in full . Is a Third Rangers* even viable ? Are there any Real Rangers* men left , would the fans have the stomach to fund it all over again , would Murray be interested , would he be allowed , would the rest of Scottish football tolerate another 5 way fix ? Fool me once as the saying goes. We live in interesting times.
We've beeb at this a while of course, but Tartan lal-La-Land has seldom seen as bizarre a fortnight as the last one.
Morelos, PIs, suspicious wives, Kenny McIntyre and Darryl B having a stroke on-air, BBC making up new broadcasting standards rules (taking their lead from the SFA no doubt).
Traynor being mugged by muggers who apparently read out a statement before the mugging to considerately appraise the muggee of why the mugging is taking place. Traynor sustaining an injury and no photo in the tabloids? Aye right.
So I'm thinking Jabbagate is maximum acid flashback, but wait, here comes the SPFL in LiviGate.
Its like the genie is now out of the bottle wrt how twisted and corrupt everything surrounding our game is. Consequently they no longer require their actions to be plausible. Full ahead maximum Tonto.
How blessed we are to live in these times. How fortunate that the authorities and the media are run by serious professionals.
https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1228802948605661184?s=21
Man City now in danger of losing titles and amazingly HMRC are not involved.
Timtim 16th February 2020 at 00:43
As far as I know the Close loan is secured so failure to pay it may not trigger administration as Close would initially take the assets in lieu of payment, it would however alert all other creditors to the situation and certainly restrict their ability to raise funding . It may lead to an attempt to ring fence any cash which would if granted tip the scales towards administration.
I suspect ALL of the creditors are on high alert. As well as the SFA & SPFL.
The problem this time is that a large chunk of the money owed are footballing debts that would have to be honoured in full . Is a Third Rangers* even viable ?
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
This is crucial. Last time round the entry of Sevco 5088 Ltd and, by way of a waiver Sevco Scotland Ltd, into the SFL was only allowed if it took on the football debts of Rangers FC (of the 1872 variety).
They were not significant in terms of the cash raised in the AIM Listing soon afterwards.
As far as it can be ascertained those football debts are around £25M. To retain league status would those debts not have to honoured post Admin? I say Admin I mean liquidation and starting again.
If TRFC were to be purchased by an Oligarch/Billionaire or similar they would need to invest £98M in year 1.
£25m to clear the football stuff, £20m to sort SDI/Hummel/Elite, Est £10m to get rid of other debt, £25m to get the ground up to standard and increase capacity by 15k to increae income streams and future viability, £20m to sign some quality players, £5m to improve scouting and youth system because at present it produces nothing, £3.5m to take the best players from the likes of Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Hibs but probably not Hearts to prevent points leakage.
I’ve now finished reading Craig Whyte’s book. I didn’t think there were any new or startling revelations in it.
Obviously, it portrays a picture of Whyte himself being the fall guy for all that happened to the club. Whyte does believe that it was ultimately SDM who was responsible for the financial collapse of the club, primarily because of the EBT schemes.
The bits that I found most interesting were the early chapters about how money could be made by restructuring companies in distress and the latter chapters about his arrest, trial and the epilogue. There wasn’t very much about his time in charge of the club.
He is scathing about a whole host of people including SDM, the Oldco Board, the Police, the media, the Crown Office, Duff and Phelps, Charles Green and HMRC. I won’t offer any opinions about what he says about the conduct of the Police and D&P because of ongoing court cases.
There are inaccuracies and contradictory statements in the book, but having been so close to the story I did find it a worthwhile read over the last couple of days.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 02:05
I’ve now finished reading Craig Whyte’s book. I didn’t think there were any new or startling revelations in it.
Obviously, it portrays a picture of Whyte himself being the fall guy for all that happened to the club. Whyte does believe that it was ultimately SDM who was responsible for the financial collapse of the club, primarily because of the EBT schemes.
The bits that I found most interesting were the early chapters about how money could be made by restructuring companies in distress and the latter chapters about his arrest, trial and the epilogue. There wasn’t very much about his time in charge of the club.
He is scathing about a whole host of people including SDM, the Oldco Board, the Police, the media, the Crown Office, Duff and Phelps, Charles Green and HMRC. I won’t offer any opinions about what he says about the conduct of the Police and D&P because of ongoing court cases.
There are inaccuracies and contradictory statements in the book, but having been so close to the story I did find it a worthwhile read over the last couple of days.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Are there any personal insights?
Like if he was to find himself in the same position today. Would he do anything different? Anything at all.
What about the Switcheroo from Sevco 5088 Ltd to Sevco Scotland Ltd which cut him right out of the riches he had planned? Anything?
It's not all come out yet. Has it?
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 02:05
I’ve now finished reading Craig Whyte’s book.
I didn’t think there were any new or startling revelations in it. Obviously, it portrays a picture of Whyte himself…
========
Well done eJ… and I won’t have to buy his book now!
IF Traynor was to write a book too, I think it would be similar: containing nothing significant that the Internet Bampots didn’t know already – and portraying Jabba as an effective PR ‘expert’, and/or ‘victim’ of some sort.
And as BP mentions above, it’s getting a bit mental with all the PR generate nonsense stories, and I’m starting to lose track – as each story is overshadowed by the next, crazy story!
If Jabba had any PR awareness, then – absolutely! – a photo of a sad looking Traynor – with a visible injury – would have written 1,000 words: job done. It might have even elicited some sympathy?
But he didn’t, because it’s just more of his [alleged] PR p!sh, fake news. He’s just not trying these days…
Do I detect some scepticism or cynicism anent the gravity of JabbaGate?
Surely any of us having sustained the reported vicious assault (bigoted seemedly) would respond in the manner reported?
When lying in extremis what need have ye of a Physician or a Man of the Cloth or your Nearest and Dearest? No, the most pressing thing is to have a chat with Gary Ralston of the Daily Record so he can get it out there. Time was it would have been Keef but those days have gone never to return (unless it suits one/other/both).
I thought the quickest way to get up to speed would be to consult the staunchest of staunch sites; FollowFollow but when I did it looked like there had been a Stalinist rewriting/deletion of history. Not so; JabbaGate has slipped to the third page of long lists of subjects close to their black hearts. You know you're not very good at this PR malarky when you can't even get a story about yourself front and centre. Still, I did learn the rain and the wind is controlled by the Vatican.
I await a Statement: On the basis that he who is without sin may cast the first stone Jabba would have to wait an eternity before he became eligible to cast his stone. Held to different standards…Up with this we shall not put…Take heed and take notice…Auntie Mary Had A Canary…
Going by the BBC (I know) weather app the Weather Gods have not smiled on Rangers* today. There is a 60% chance of rain and winds predicted in excess of 50 mph in Glasgow between 12.00 and 17.00 hours today. The sun will be shining over Pittodrie but there are winds predicted of over 50 mph for the duration of the game. I think there could be an argument for a winter break for Scottish football. ?
Bogs Dollox 16th February 2020 at 02:50
Are there any personal insights?
Like if he was to find himself in the same position today. Would he do anything different? Anything at all.
What about the Switcheroo from Sevco 5088 Ltd to Sevco Scotland Ltd which cut him right out of the riches he had planned? Anything?
It’s not all come out yet. Has it?
==============================
I found his pre Rangers life story more interesting than the period thereafter, as most of what happened once he got involved with Rangers is well documented, and pretty accurate.
He does admit that with hindsight he should have put the club into administration the day he took over and done a pre-pack to rid themselves of the debts, tax liabilities and onerous contracts.
The switcheroo was a case of Green shafting Whyte, but it seems to read that Green probably did have the power as sole director of Sevco 5088 to do what he did. Whyte asked for £1m and 25% of Green’s and Ahmad’s shares to go away, but was only offered £500k, which he turned down.
I had hoped that more would have come out abut the wee tax case, but there is little reference to it, with a contradiction of having accepted the liability but still disputing it when the club went into administration.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 10:17
Thanks for the not unexpected update that there was nothing much new in Whyte's book, saves me buying it now, though I was never going to buy it anyway
While it may be nothing new for us, though, it does put it's content out there in the mainstream of published works and has already created an awakening amongst some journalists of the events surrounding the cheating and eventual demise of Rangers.
Personally, I've never liked biographies/autobiographies as they can only ever be one man's version of events and will always be weighted one way or the other, regardless of the subject matter, and I am certain CW will have omitted much that might paint him in as bad a light as his detractors would like to paint him themaselves. There will also be somethings, I am sure, that he will have omitted about others involved in the scandal because that too might make him look bad.
StevieBC 16th February 2020 at 07:48
If Jabba had any PR awareness, then – absolutely! – a photo of a sad looking Traynor – with a visible injury – would have written 1,000 words: job done. It might have even elicited some sympathy?
……………..
Jim White was not available for a bedside interview.
Big Pink 16th February 2020 at 01:31
=========================
No way do I want to minimise racism, but isn't it strange how we are now being asked to believe Morelos is being racially abused at every game? No hard evidence is ever offered, but the media always scream about a 'Police investigation'. Opposition Managers and players are then asked about it, condemn all racism, then more headlines are generated about something we don't even know actually happened.
I have no doubt at all that Morelos, along with every black player playing in Scotland, has had racial abuse shouted at him at some point. In my view Scotland is far from the welcoming Nirvana of tolerance the Scottish Government claim it to be. Probably best summarised by my Kilmarnock supporting friend who pointed out that his club's support are being deemed as racist by some fans who spent Wednesday night belting out several racist and sectarian chants of their own, with hard evidence to prove it. Therein lies the problem though. Anti-Catholic sectarianism and ant-Irish racism is okay in Scotland. Well it must be, because the media constantly ignore it, but are happy to create banner headlines about alleged racism against one player where no evidence exists. The Police never investigate it either.
One Scotland, many cultures – don't make me laugh!
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 10:17
He does admit that with hindsight he should have put the club into administration the day he took over and done a pre-pack to rid themselves of the debts, tax liabilities and onerous contracts.
=====================================
Is that even possible.
If it is why would anyone ever pay debts, including but not limited to tax.
In a pre-pack don't the business and assets have to be sold to a new owner.
Homunculus 16th February 2020 at 11:36
Is that even possible.
If it is why would anyone ever pay debts, including but not limited to tax.
In a pre-pack don't the business and assets have to be sold to a new owner.
==================================
It is possible.
Most pre packs involve a sale to an existing director who thinks he/she can run a company on their own, or a major creditor who will take ownership of the company's assets in return for a complete write off or partial write down of a debt.
What he didn't say was how the football authorities would act should he have gone down that road. The book tells us that he spoke to Neil Doncaster about administration in October 2011 and Stewart Regan a couple of months later.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 11:56
==============================
Yes but even if the limited company buying the assets had a common director it would be a new legal entity.
I believe the business and assets also have to be sold at "fair value", not like paying £1 to buy existing shares. That money being used to satisfy debts, at least in part.
In addition the prospective purchaser has to be able to demonstrate that the business will be viable when they take over.
I just don't wear this idea that people can sell their business to themselves for a nominal sum and the existing creditors can just whistle for their money.
Homunculus 16th February 2020 at 12:58
I just don't wear this idea that people can sell their business to themselves for a nominal sum and the existing creditors can just whistle for their money.
——————————————————————–
Whyte's rationalisation for this is that he kept people in jobs rather than everyone losing out. He doesn't however mention the implicit financial benefit to himself from the use of this tactic.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Sometimes Peter Lawwell & Dermot Desmond annoy me with their priorities but when I compare them to the Ibrox supremos Murray, Whyte, Green and King, I feel blessed!
redlichtie 16th February 2020 at 14:50
I presume he doesn’t mention, either, the people who lose their jobs as a result of the non-payment of the debts that took his various distressed companies into administration in the first place.
I think, though, that we can take it as a certainty that Craig Whyte, and his ilk, never give one tiny thought to the jobs he is either destroying, or, by an unintended occurrence, saving.
And, of course, with a pre-pack administration the creditors have no say in what happens to the debt, and it will, almost in every case, receive closer to a zero dividend than to something that they might have considered acceptable for a CVA.
I do wonder, though, if going down the administration route, whether pre-pack or not, whether they’d escape any financial penalties meted out at a later date from an ongoing court case(s). For one thing, I doubt the lawyers would be very happy to see their costs go down the swanny! And if there is a real danger of losing out on monies due to them as the result of a pre-pack admin, then surely MA/SDI would be taking action to snuff it out*.
*Edit. Of course, for all I know, they may have already done so.
redlichtie 16th February 2020 at 14:50
Whyte's rationalisation for this is that he kept people in jobs rather than everyone losing out. He doesn't however mention the implicit financial benefit to himself from the use of this tactic.
==========================================
I take it he is ignoring the tens of millions that other people lost when he makes this ridiculous claim.
Including the entire country with the unpaid tax … after he had taken over. Remember it's the tax Whyte himself didn't pay which contributed massively to the club going into administration. It's also that debt which allowed HMRC to block a CVA and led to the club being placed into liquidation.
Allyjambo/Homunculus.
I've never been comfortable with pre-packs. Smacks too much of insider dealing for me with those who have got a company into trouble often the ones who manage to protect themselves and come out smelling of roses.
Whyte's character is clear from the book – he has no regard for any interest apart from his own. What attracted and continues to attract such people to Rangers*?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 10:17
'….I found his pre Rangers life story more interesting than the period thereafter.'
____________
Has it ever been explained how it came about that Whyte even thought of 'buying' RFC ?
Did SDM know him via the 'used metal' business that Whyte's old man was involved in?
Whyte was so small-time an operator that I find it hard to believe that he could have (despite our Keef's assessment!) even thought in terms of raising the readies that SDM was looking for, without having some 'introduction' as a potential purchaser, from some reasonably heavy-weight backer?
Did SDM really believe that a wee tyke like Whyte had the readies? Was SDM so feckin stupid as not to learn in 5 minutes what Whyte's business record was?
I feel there must have been some kind of back-story.
Not one for doing much online research I was intrigued enough by claims that the Dave King 'robbery' was only covered by the SMSM to do a search on Bing and, lo and behold, the only non-SMSM references I found were from the Times, MSN and a site called The World News. The Times claim it as their own report, though remarkably worded like all the others, while the other two credit the DR.
I even tried using ZA to see if that would bring up better results, and it did! It brought up a few results about Dave King, but not that he'd been the victim of a crime; oh no, it was various versions of that old story where he was the criminal found guilty of mugging a whole country for a lot more than he had in his wallet
Dave has been particularly unlucky on the laptop front.
The men who held a gun to his head stole his laptop, the men who broke into his house less than a week later stole another laptop.
It's so bad that he has had to borrow one – "I'm having to borrow a laptop from a friend just to see my emails twice a day."
Don't they have Curry's in South Africa, I reckon I could replace a laptop in an hour or so.
John Clark 16th February 2020 at 17:35
Has it ever been explained how it came about that Whyte even thought of ‘buying’ RFC ?
Did SDM know him via the ‘used metal’ business that Whyte’s old man was involved in?
Whyte was so small-time an operator that I find it hard to believe that he could have (despite our Keef’s assessment!) even thought in terms of raising the readies that SDM was looking for, without having some ‘introduction’ as a potential purchaser, from some reasonably heavy-weight backer?
Did SDM really believe that a wee tyke like Whyte had the readies? Was SDM so feckin stupid as not to learn in 5 minutes what Whyte’s business record was?
I feel there must have been some kind of back-story.
================================
There is no suggestion that the Whyte family had any prior business arrangements with SDM.
Whyte became aware that Rangers was for sale around October 2009 when Rangers notified the stock exchange of a potential sale. He was also aware from that announcement that Andrew Ellis was interested. One of those involved in setting up the Ellis deal was George Cadbury (part of the chocolate family). At the time Whyte was involved in a separate deal with Cadbury, who first mentioned it to him. Whyte had said that if he needed any help then come back to him.
Cadbury did come back a few weeks later after the Ellis financing had fallen through. Whyte then got involved with Ellis.
Interestingly, Ellis was alerted to the Rangers situation by a David Gilmour who was based in Guernsey and helped administer Rangers EBT scheme. The message was that SDM was desperate to sell.
Whyte said that his wealth was in eight figures at the time, so couldn’t finance a £30m quoted price on his own so would have to raise funds elsewhere. Phil Betts, who worked closely with Whyte, was asked to see how much he could raise. Betts used one of his contacts called Nigel Farr who put them in touch with Octopus (Ticketus). Whyte was already aware of Octopus’ connection with Rangers, as Rangers had previously disclosed their involvement with Ticketus as part of their dealings with Ellis and Gilmour.
Whyte actually knew about Octopus as a source of funding having met one of their reps a year or so earlier, with the indication that Octopus was always looking for good investment opportunities.
SDM was so desperate for a sale that he wasn’t interested in where the money came from. (as was later made clear about his deal with Lloyds to salvage his metals business)
And so a deal was born.
That’s why I said earlier that I found Whyte’s life story pre takeover more interesting than his time following the takeover, which most of us are all too familiar with.
I was interested in how he started in business, how he made his money, how such deals are structured, where the profit comes from.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 18:30
I take it this is Whyte's version of events, or is it something you have pieced together yourself.
Homunculus 16th February 2020 at 20:23
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 18:30
I take it this is Whyte’s version of events, or is it something you have pieced together yourself.
===============================
Yes, that’s taken from the book. I wasn’t overly familiar with the pre takover wheeling and dealing.
Whyte could of course have dressed some of it up, but I don’t see the benefit of him doing so. However, I can see the benefit to him in mis-representing what happened post takeover.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 18:30
'…There is no suggestion that the Whyte family had any prior business arrangements with SDM.'
Homunculus 16th February 2020 at 20:23
'I take it this is Whyte’s version of events,'
_____________
Thank you, eJ, or that information.
I vaguely think I remember reading somewhere something that suggested to me that SDM via Octopus was a shareholder in a Venture Capital Trust which had connections with Ticketus.
And lurking in my perhaps 'overly suspicious in ignorance' mind was a half-idea that conceivably the Ticketus wheeze might have been a suggestion emanating from someone in the metals industry who knew about Ticketus first hand.
I have not been able to trace my suspicions to their origin. Perhaps the wish was father to the thought!
That was years ago, before I even knew that such a thing as Companies House even existed!
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 20:57
==================================
Well he's a lying fantasist who has a history of fraud, asset stripping, gratuitous alienation, being banned as a director and pretty much every other version of corporate cheating that it is possible to imagine.
So I would take anything he says with a hefty pinch of salt.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 20:57
"Yes, that’s taken from the book. I wasn’t overly familiar with the pre takover wheeling and dealing."
————–
A formative Charlotte Fakeovers tweet credited Andrew Ellis and Chris Akers with orchestration of the Rangers shenanigans.
Castofthousands 17th February 2020 at 00:37
A formative Charlotte Fakeovers tweet credited Andrew Ellis and Chris Akers with orchestration of the Rangers shenanigans.
=================================
I wish I had retained a copy of all the documents posted by Charlotte Fakes. I did keep a few that I thought might be important down the line, but it’s an incomplete record of events.
Whyte claims in the book that William Stevenson (Charlotte Fakes) tried to blackmail him if he didn’t provide him with a copy of the final version of the 5 Way Agreement. That was before an intermediary acting on behalf of Dave King paid him £20k for the hacked documents (that was also disclosed in court some time later).
I know it can sometimes be slightly difficult to find Celtic highlights on the BBC Shortbread website (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish) [and what is that all about, BTW] … But is anyone else able to find a (Shortbread) link to the highlights of yesterday's Aberdeen v Celtic league match … ?
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-media-chief-jim-traynor-21502081
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/appeal-after-66-year-old-17756762
They can't both be accurate.
Either there was a mini crime-spree two hours apart targetting wee, fat, baldy, speccy, elderly men or the time has been Lost In Translation.
Dunderheid 17th February 2020 at 10:55
I know it can sometimes be slightly difficult to find Celtic highlights on the BBC Shortbread website (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish)…
===
I clicked on that BBC link, and the following headlines were displayed side by side;
"Late Ajer goal clinches scrappy Celtic victory over Aberdeen"
&
"Rangers maintain 10-point gap behind Celtic with Livingstone win"
Having watched both games live yesterday, the wording / emphasis of both headlines appears curious to me: Celtic 'struggled' whilst Rangers 'preserved'.
The weather conditions did not help, and neither game was pretty to watch. Both matches were certainly 'scrappy' affairs.
But, the headlines could also have been;
"Arfield goal clinches scrappy Rangers victory over Livingstone"
&
"Celtic maintain 10-point gap above Rangers with Aberdeen win"
I don't think that BBC Scotland is even aware of any subtle, subconscious bias in their Sports reporting.
…and I don't think that BBC Scotland even cares…
LUGOSI 17th February 2020 at 11:10
…
They can't both be accurate.
Either there was a mini crime-spree two hours apart targetting wee, fat, baldy, speccy, elderly men or the time has been Lost In Translation.
=============
With all the CCTV on our streets – nevermind dashcams – Shirley they'll catch the, erm, culprits?
Apparently, one of them should be quite easy to identify.
He's a tall, incredibly thin man – who is believed to have been spotted recently, underneath a Lamborghini sports car in Glasgow.
So Craig Whyte published a book. Despite containing nothing new the sales of the book topped the charts. The following is a quote from Etims.
“Craig whyte has got his book out, which contains little that is new, and provides a neat deflection for anything else that might harm the larger brand.. He’s put himself forward a second time to play the fall guy…”
The fall guy for whom one can’t help wonder?
So Mr Gerrard is watching the situation regarding possible title stripping of Man City for financial jiggery pokery. Didn't you get the memo Steven ?
Timtim
He did but he thought it was a film about an animated fish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51528427
Manchester City V UEFA and the Omer Riza case.
“The ECHR said that, in terms of a fair trial process, having a disciplinary body that also appoints the panellists who carry out the decision-making means there isn’t sufficient distance between the two.”
Who chose the panellists on Lord Nimmo Smith?
It just seems like yesterday when everybody and their dog, reckoned that LNS came up with the answers that the Hampden gurus wanted. Surely not? Well it seems the European Court of Human Rights thinks that in similar circumstances that is exactly what might happen!
Especially when evidence, witnesses and timelines are provided by the disciplinary body’s cohorts.
What’s a panellist to do? Ask Questions? No thanks. We can only deal with what is front of us.
I remember mentioning on here a couple of years ago, Judge John Deed would not settle for critical evidence being withheld at a trial, especially when it was public knowledge. Why Nimmo Smith or one of the other panellists did not ask further questions about the wee tax case is shameful. The timeline was doctored and they knew it fine well. To treat it the same as the big tax case was a falsehood from my POV.
I wouldn’t let Nimmo Smith preside over a shoplifter’s trial if he were still ‘working’.
tony 17th February 2020 at 13:00
Timtim He did but he thought it was a film about an animated fish
==========
:groan:
tony, sorry but that's a straight red!
WRT the Man City situation.
On the face of it, I wouldn't be surprised if City have the ban reduced to 1 season.
[Both sides 'win'.]
But, the whole idea that UEFA can hold any other organisation / team accountable for improper conduct is just laughable.
City will have access to the best / most expensive legal teams to keep UEFA busy forever.
And, if the ban is imposed then what to do about PSG, Real, etc?
There do seem to be a few parallels here with our very own Scottish footy.
Since 2012 the 'normal' footy fans [i.e. us
] have wanted 'sporting integrity' to prevail – but we have all witnessed how Hampden bypassed its own rules to ensure that business and money trumped all.
Yet now, we have UEFA trying to ensure Financial Fair Play – via a 'more level' spending playing field – by trying to control business and money within European football.
It's all messed up!
jimbo @14:51
Indeed.
The shoplifter would have been acquitted immediately.
The Bryson Principle would have clearly shown that, if asked to pay at the time of the 'transaction' then the shoplifter would undoubtedly have done so, therefore no real 'goods acquisition' advantage had accrued.
StevieBC
Accepted ?
Strangely there was no mention of Man City being fined €30 million, being banned from UEFA tournaments for 2 years and potentially losing EPL titles won through contravening FFP on ClydeSSB this evening. It’s a real mystery so it is
To:john clark
17 Feb at 12:48
Dear Mr Clark
Thank you for your email.
I’m sorry for not responding sooner.
We considered your request, but remain of the view that we will not make any amendments to the listed building record. We have nothing further to add beyond our original email to you of 24 December 2019.
Best wishes
J.Candy
Historic Environment Scotland – Scottish Charity No. SC045925
Registered office: Longmore House, Salisbury Place, Edinburgh, EH9 1SH
and I even more regretfully give you this:
john clark
To:Julie Candy
17 Feb at 20:48
Dear Dr Candy,
Thank you for your reply.
I note that you remain intransigent, and in that intransigence are prepared to let a clear factual error remain to mislead persons who might regard the HES website as a factually honest site which can be relied upon generally.
I regret to say that I believe that that does not say an awful lot for standards of professional integrity in the HES or for the rigorous care for truth that might reasonably be expected of a public body.
I certainly shall view anything emanating from HES in the future with distrust as to its accuracy as to facts and its attitude to Truth.
Yours sincerely,
John Clark
Can I suggest that we refrain from comparing whatever it is that Manchester City did to breach FFP regulations with Rangers use of EBTs. I believe that the money Man City used to finance their squad was actually from a legitimate source, that is, the club's owners own money, while Rangers used money that was not from a legitimate source, and wasn't their own money, belonging to HMRC who were unaware that it had been withheld from them. Obviously using your own money to finance your own football club to give your club an unfair advantage is far worse than using money that should have been paid to HMRC to give your club a similarly unfair advantage. And I bet Manchester City didn't even have the decency to deliberately misregister their players to hide the unfairness of their advantage.
So please give the SFA and the SMSM a break (Rangers don't need that break because they're not around anymore) and don't mention the war (oops, sorry, wrong comedy
)
As has been said on many an occasion, if you're going to lie, lie big, and similarly, if you are going to cheat, cheat big, as you've got more chance of getting away with it in both cases. And didn't Rangers* prove that to be true by both lying and cheating hugely!
*Rangers 'got away with it' right up to the moment the club fell into stasis while awaiting liquidation.
easyJambo 16th February 2020 at 18:30
Whyte became aware that Rangers was for sale around October 2009
………………….
John Clark 16th February 2020 at 23:12
……………………..
Sorry for the late reply.
Ellis. I took Craig whyte to meet SDM in the south of France and that’s when talks began.
……………….
A couple of things to read from the Time.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1229520140439519232/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1229521021524414464/photo/1
Allyjambo 17th February 2020 at 21:24
===================================
Can I suggest we compare Manchester City to this Rangers, rather than the last one. That was just out and out fraud, not breaking football's rules.
This Rangers have spent more than they were earning in every year of their existence. With owners, directors and their associates putting in money to make up the difference and keep the business trading.
This season for example, they spent about £10m on players (Kent and Helander) whilst at the same time predicting a shortfall for the season of a similar amount.
A more blatant example of spending money the club isn't making, in breach of Financial Fair Play, to buy "success" would be more difficult to imagine.
Cluster One 17th February 2020 at 21:41
A couple of things to read from the Time.
==========================
Both articles appear to back up Whyte's account in his book of how he got involved in the deal.
john clark
To:Julie Candy
17 Feb at 20:48
Dear Dr Candy,
…
===============
Good for you JC.
You are right and she is wrong.
…and nobody needs a PhD to come to that conclusion either…
Mr Gerrard has opened a can of worms , I did consider it just to be the latest squirrel but on reflection I will put it down to his desire to achieve a league title by any means possible . It has though rubbed salt into an open wound . A reminder that Charles Green "bought those titles" , the question is who did he buy them from ? and what club* now has no titles as a result ? (thanks to @rightupya on twitter for pointing that out) What's worse is that even after the Supreme Court ruling the SFA refuse to asterisk them . The rewriting of history is they didn't die and all honours are rightfully theirs . The reality is those titles were won through cheating and are claimed by a different entity as their own . Gerrard and Rangers* are very well suited .
Homunculus 17th February 2020 at 21:48 Allyjambo 17th February 2020 at 21:24 =================================== Can I suggest we compare Manchester City to this Rangers, rather than the last one. That was just out and out fraud, not breaking football's rules. This Rangers have spent more than they were earning in every year of their existence. With owners, directors and their associates putting in money to make up the difference and keep the business trading. This season for example, they spent about £10m on players (Kent and Helander) whilst at the same time predicting a shortfall for the season of a similar amount. A more blatant example of spending money the club isn't making, in breach of Financial Fair Play, to buy "success" would be more difficult to imagine.
_______________
You can, of course, suggest this, and it would be an excellent suggestion.
I was obviously trying to be sarcastic in my previous post and not really suggesting we don't compare the two cases, though I think the comparison should be made more with regard to the way the authorities (UEFA versus SFA) handle financial chicanery/cheating than the actual offences, themselves. The overall level of cheating was clearly far greater in Rangers case than City's despite the disparity in the millions involved. We must wait to see what action the FA take, too, before a complete comparison can be made, and I doubt they'll act until after the UEFA driven action is done and dusted.
Timtim 17th February 2020 at 22:28 Mr Gerrard has opened a can of worms , I did consider it just to be the latest squirrel but on reflection I will put it down to his desire to achieve a league title by any means possible . It has though rubbed salt into an open wound . A reminder that Charles Green "bought those titles" , the question is who did he buy them from ? and what club* now has no titles as a result ? (thanks to @rightupya on twitter for pointing that out) What's worse is that even after the Supreme Court ruling the SFA refuse to asterisk them . The rewriting of history is they didn't die and all honours are rightfully theirs . The reality is those titles were won through cheating and are claimed by a different entity as their own . Gerrard and Rangers* are very well suited .
________________________
A very good point, TT. As I've said before, if the 'same club' dreamers were right, why on earth did TRFC have to 'buy' the titles/history of a club they claimed to be one and the same with?
There's more than a hint of some sort of deception should someone, or company, ever suggest he/it has bought an asset, tangible or not, from himself/itself.
_____________________
In 2018 false allegations were made that me & @SNPdavid
personally intervened to prevent Rangers FC using a community facility in the Ibrox area as a fanzone. We have now been fully exonerated by the Standards Commission of any such action & complaints against us dismissed 1/
…………………….
https://twitter.com/SusaninLangside/status/1229477335159758852
Allyjambo 17th February 2020 at 22:49
'..There's more than a hint of some sort of deception should someone, or company, ever suggest he/it has bought an asset, tangible or not, from himself/itself.'
____________
Yes, there is complete absurdity in the attempt to deceive, Aj!
I don't know whether I was more offended by the dirty cheating of hubristic SDM over so many years or by the suggestion by the SFA that a new club they had so newly admitted into Scottish Football was one and the same club from which they had to whip away its SFA membership when it lost its share in the SPL through the insolvency event of 'Liquidation'.
At a pinch, I could see and understand where a panicky SDM had been coming from as the kind of businessman that is that kind of businessman;
but when it comes to the SFA trying to kid us all that the new club that they themselves had to newly admit is somehow the identical club as the club from which they had to take away membership of the SFA, that really set new standards (infinitely worse and more despicable than those of SDM) of betrayal of trust , betrayal of Sport, and betrayal of Truth.
And that the liars should have thought we would roll over and accept such an absurdity is beyond belief, and insulting in the extreme.
One of the most desperate acts to justify what was happening then (and now) was the media resorting to mocking the term "sporting integrity " as if it was something we shouldn't aspire to . It was almost as if those who were demanding that were a burden to the progress of our sport.
the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles that you refuse to change
Personally I think without those principles then there is little point , without those principles the game is dishonest and immoral. When people like Chic Young and James Traynor were mocking "sporting integrity" they were really just exposing themselves as part of the corrupt cabal that have poisoned our sport for years . I know it can get boring repeating ourselves over many of the same issues but our silence is what they crave most. The truth will only out if we keep telling it how it is.
Homunculus 17th February 2020 at 21:48
=======================
The predicted £10m shortfall at Ibrox this season was in their last accounts. Since then there has been no share issue, and no news of a funds injection. There has been no significant player sale. So how do they get to the end of the season? They are not a listed company, but would they still have to report somewhere which is publicly readable if a loan is taken out, or funding is obtained from another source?
“Going for history making records, world class names under career threatening pressure, brakes being cut, club officials beaten up. Fake news translations. Sky reported to OFCOM. Reporters censured. Fans up to high Doh! It’s magnificent. Tune in everyone. This is Gangs of NY.”
The above is from a Roger Mitchell tweet. I assume he’s going for a humorous take on recent events.
Regarding my last post. There’s no need to mention the common denominator is there?
Now finished the CW book. Like previous comments not a lot new. Suspect legal review has removed much we would have liked to read about. (Despite that review I spotted a number of typos though!)
Talking about the SFA trying to fine him :
"..we went to court and said we would call Stewart Regan and others as witnesses.Their response was to walk away."
EBTs (and blind eyes) :
"They were complete clowns. They had a lot to say about me at the time., but did they say anything about the EBT case? A club effectively cheated the game for years and no sanctions were taken against any of the individuals involved……but many of the guys who were there when the problem started are still there – yet still the SFA do nothing about that."
Further on cheating and titles (and OC/NC) :
"…Rangers cheated for years under David Murray and the previous board. I have no love for the tax authorities, but there should be a level playing field in sport and Rangers did not adhere to that by using the EBT scheme to sign players they would otherwise not have been able to bring to the club. That was unfair on the other teams…..I can understand fans of other clubs being aggrieved that the new business retains the titles of the old business. I'm not sure that is a valid claim."
And why the SFA behaved as they did…
"The SFA and the league want a strong Rangers. It is part of their selling point when they are trying to get sponsors that they need to have these two big clubs that are well supported."
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
redlichtie 18th February 2020 at 10:40
At least we can see that Whyte used the best sources of research for his book: SFM, RTC, PMGB, the Clumpany, at the very least. But as I said previously, at least he's putting these truths out into the mainstream, hopefully enlightening a few who remain (wilfully?) unaware of the truth of cheating and death. And aware, now, that they have been lied to.
Over on Jambos Kickback there's a fresh thread on Michael Stewart's continued suspension by the BBC and someone posted how it was alright for Stewart to slaughter on air Craig Levein, a man he was known to have personal grievances with, and Austin McPhee. So, what are these 'guidelines' he's supposedly crossed? Have they only recently been put in place, and at whose behest?
Of course, as well as possibly ending Stewart's media career, the BBC have sent out yet another message to their 'journalists' and presenters that 'Rangers' and it's allies are not to be messed* with.
*'Messed with' as in 'exposed to the truth'.
upthehoops 18th February 2020 at 07:12
=================================
There was a lot of talk re "major investment" in January. Alex Rae was the main cheerleader for that.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alex-rae-rangers-investment-claim-20940333
He said on Clyde 1's Superscoreboard: "Now it is my understanding at the turn of the year there will be another share issue done, which will provide considerable money.
"And there will be major investment coming into Rangers."
Host Gordon Duncan probed Rae, saying: "We have heard this stuff quite a lot though, haven't we?"
Rae added: "I've heard it from a very high source in Ibrox so I would prefer to believe that instead of anybody from Twitter."
==============================
From what I can see no such thing has happened, there were no significant sales of player registrations, they are taking Elite to Court in order to get c£2.5m they claimed to be owed. Cash must be very tight (for a business which admits to operate on a cash basis).
The business is simply not viable without continuing to break the Financial Fair Play rules. The question is, for how much longer will people be willing to throw good money after bad.
Allyjambo 18th February 2020 at 11:16
They dropped Michael Stewart, one of the best and most honest football pundits Scotland has seen for years, and replaced him on Sportscene with Malky MacKay.
Perhaps Michael should have been a racist, sexist, anti-semitic homophobe, rather than describing a bully as a bully. He has clearly been poorly advised.
18,000 + have now signed the petition to have Michael Stewart reinstated at the BBC.
Jimbo posted the link on page 5.
easyJambo 17th February 2020 at 00:54
“I wish I had retained a copy of all the documents posted by Charlotte Fakes. I did keep a few that I thought might be important down the line, but it’s an incomplete record of events.”
I have a cache on the hard drive retained from my last computer but they aren’t immediately accessible. I recalled from memory (eventually) the Andrew Ellis/Chris Akers production strapline but the tweet in question said little more.
It would however appear that what you have lost on the swings you have gained on the roundabout since you have faithfully played out a thread through the labyrinthine perambulations of this saga which provides this blog and its affiliates with an indelible corporate memory of events.
My long absence from the blog leaves huge gaps in my knowledge that your response reveals.
At the time Charlotte Fakeovers first emerged much conjecture was bandied concerning motives. I was going to ask you for a brief summary of CharlotteFakes motives but realised I should be doing my own research based on the information you have provided.
I stumbled across this document at the very threshold of my inquiries. I suspect it is not particularly significant but I haven’t sufficient knowledge to make that judgement. It may however be found interesting by you.
https://www.aidanearley.org/tortious-interference-report/
Castofthousands@14.19
I followed the link on your post. This caught my eye on page five.
The plan was to provide £3m of the working capital to Rangers secured by a robust first charge over the almost £100m of audited gross assets owned by the Club and by assignment of the Lloyds debenture to the pension fund, providing that the interest and bullet payment eliminated the pension deficit.
Castofthousands 18th February 2020 at 14:19
I stumbled across this document at the very threshold of my inquiries. I suspect it is not particularly significant but I haven’t sufficient knowledge to make that judgement. It may however be found interesting by you.
https://www.aidanearley.org/tortious-interference-report/
====================================
I kept an eye on the Aidan Earley website when he first launched it, so I was aware of the "tortious interference" allegations from some time ago. I haven't kept up to date with it for the last 18 months or so.
The part that I was interested in was the claim that Worthington had over the Oldco. That was settled "out of court" by a payment by BDO of £962,500 around the middle of last year.
I see RTC on Twitter with information against Andrew Dickson and SKY with his input to Morelos interview.
valentinesclown 18th February 2020 at 18:05
I see RTC on Twitter with information against Andrew Dickson and SKY with his input to Morelos interview.
================================
Dickson has responded to RTC by denying any involvement whatsoever.
easyJambo
Today??
tony 18th February 2020 at 18:25
easyJambo
Today??
===========================
Yes 25 mins ago. Then he has a go at RTC, as an anonymous blogger trying to stir up some hate.
Andrew Dickson@mrandrewdickson25m
No, I wasn’t. In any way whatsoever. So tough luck with that
Andrew Dickson@mrandrewdickson5m
Ironic that as my tweet appealing for better regulation on social media to curb faceless abuse hits 25k likes – thus showing huge appetite for the idea – an anonymous blogger tries to get some hate going my way. Couldn’t make it up. Folk here should be identifiable & accountable.
easyJambo
Cheers, accountable, they really don't do irony
I note this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2020/donalda-mackinnon
"BBC Scotland Director Donalda MacKinnon is to stand down as the corporation's Scottish leader after four years in the role and 33 years with the broadcaster"
And I note this
"..Donalda MacKinnon says: "Reflecting back on all that we have achieved, .."
Whatever else she 'achieved, as BBC Scotland Director MacKinnon continued the ban on any on-air discussion of the 5-Way Agreement,the Big Lie created by the SFA;and by so doing, allowed for the broadcasting and propagation of as wicked a lie as ever came from the lips of Josef Goebbels and the unjust punishment of such honest men as did not toe the party line.
As said in relation to the SMSM, what the feck would they do in really vital matters of Truth, if they allow untruths in the matter of a Sport not just to be left unquestioned and unchallenged but actively supported and propagated.
We are well rid of any such a person in positions of influence in the BBC, that supposed bastion of Truth.
We can, of course, confidently predict that her successor will also be a puppet.
John Clark
I don't care about the puppet, I want to know who's pulling their strings
easyJambo 18th February 2020 at 18:34
‘…Then he has a go at RTC, as an anonymous blogger trying to stir up some hate.’
%%%%%%%%%%
It is inconceivable that Dickson would not know that RTC is about as far removed from being just ‘an anonymous blogger’ as it is possible to be(well, apart from being anonymous!)
If there had been SMSM people who had not sold their souls for a mess of succulent lamb and SDM’s favour, but had done what journalists are supposed to do-ask the kind of questions asked by RTC-then , as CW himself says, RFC of 1872 might not have died: Murray would have been called to order early enough, and the cheating EBT years might not have happened.
And Scottish Football would have benefited by not having to perjure itself and throw integrity to the wind. ( And what the devil is happening at Fir Park as I write?)
Phil’s latest blog is stating that TRFC “HAD” to play the postponed game ASAP, as in: playing on the more reasonable / less stormy Monday night was simply not an option – for Ibrox financial reasons.
Which suggests that the MD Robertson is micromanaging cashflow – to the penny, by the day – and with no wiggle room to speak of.
Which is a rather risky way to manage any business… to state the bleedin’ obvious.
TRFC is currently just one ‘unplanned event’ away from tipping into the abyss, it would seem…?
Which is nice.
tony 18th February 2020 at 20:59
John Clark I don't care about the puppet, I want to know who's pulling their strings
=================
tony, in the interests of puppetry pedantry…
I'll see your puppet [with strings] – and raise you a marionette.
[And I'm now going to leave you all in peace: off to bed with a stinking cold/coronavirus. I may be sometime…
]
StevieBC
And we'll round it off with Dave pinocchio King
StevieBC 18th February 2020 at 21:23
Looking at the pictures of the game it was not very full of spectators, as season tickets have already been paid just how many bought a ticket for the game? i can’t see too much cash being generated for this rescheduled game. If cash is that tight things must be really bad.
Castofthousands 18th February 2020 at 14:19
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easyJambo 17th February 2020 at 00:54
“I wish I had retained a copy of all the documents posted by Charlotte Fakes.
………………..
I had all of Charlotte Fakes on an external hard drive, and it died on me (Get an external hard drive they said, put all your things on it and save it they said, and then the thing died on me)
CO, agreed: there couldn't have been many match day ticket sales – and you can only sell so many pies & Bovril, programmes, etc.
And if only for fans' safety, the game should have been played on the Monday night.
Mibbees in time we'll get the full story?
[Tablet getting switched off now.]
@C1
I don't think the cash generated on the night at the turnstile was the crucial aspect although sales of pies and programmes would help but more the payment of the ST money that is only released on a game by game basis. Money must have been needed on Monday morning . Sales from the Braga game had by then already been collected and probably spent . We can only speculate what the cash was for , transfer instalment would seem most likely as there is no mention (so far) of the Close loan being settled and February pay date is still 10 days away . I cannot see how they can see out the season if they are struggling right now . If either Ashley or Close come looking for their cash the lights will be going out.
easyJambo 18th February 2020 at 16:27
The part that I was interested in was the claim that Worthington had over the Oldco. That was settled “out of court” by a payment by BDO of £962,500 around the middle of last year.
…………………
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1229895691792736258/photo/1
……………….
From this article Worthington Group in which whyte had a small stake, had been considering making a secured loan of £2.9 million to the club before it entered administration.
Was this the end result?….. the claim that Worthington had over the Oldco. That was settled “out of court” by a payment by BDO of £962,500 around the middle of last year.
Timtim 18th February 2020 at 22:29
I don’t think the cash generated on the night at the turnstile was the crucial aspect although sales of pies and programmes would help but more the payment of the ST money that is only released on a game by game basis.
…………………
Thanks for the clarification.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJmCXdRjtdQ
Cluster One
Had same problem with hdd, bought some software and recovered 13,000 photos and videos from holidays past
Cluster One 18th February 2020 at 22:36
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1229895691792736258/photo/1
……………….
From this article Worthington Group in which whyte had a small stake, had been considering making a secured loan of £2.9 million to the club before it entered administration.
Was this the end result?….. the claim that Worthington had over the Oldco. That was settled “out of court” by a payment by BDO of £962,500 around the middle of last year.
=============================
The pension fund got all their cash back from funds still held in the Collyer Bristow client account.
The BDO settlement was regarding that claim that Wavetower (TRFCG) held a floating charge over the assets of the Oldco. The figure claimed varied enormously from £18m down to £2m or so. I think that BDO initially argued that the claim was worthless, as any money that RFC plc owned Wavetower was offset by the Ticketus cash that belonged to the club, but £16m of which was "loaned" to Wavetower to pay off the club's debt to Lloyds.
In the end, BDO decided that it would make more sense to reach a settlement than try to argue the case through the courts with significant legal costs involved..
easyJambo 18th February 2020 at 23:59
……………..
Thanks for reply.
From the Guardian .
Knowledge archive
“Is it true that Falkirk (or another Scottish side) were once shipwrecked on the way to a game?” wondered Dan Palmer in 2012.
The side who took a dip in the briny deep came from further down the Firth of Forth. Kirkcaldy’s Raith Rovers were taking in the sunnier climbs of the Canary Islands; in the summer of 1923 they boarded the Highland Loch, which was calling in at the Canaries en route to Buenos Aires with its cargo of passengers and, apparently, chilled meat.
The Stark’s Park party were off the coast of Galicia, negotiating Cape Finisterre, in violent weather when the ship ran aground. The players and other passengers were roused from their beds, lifeboats were manned and the group was towed to Villagarcia by local fishermen.
The following day a passing liner picked up the 20-strong squad and were, according to player Tom Jennings, invited to eat at the captain’s table because of their chivalrous behaviour during the rain-swept abandoning of the Highland Loch. A few days later they were safely deposited at their destination – and the traumatic journey did not seem to adversely effect the players. They won all four games, although history does not report another European adventure in 1924.
paddy malarkey 19th February 2020 at 13:19
Raith had their most memorable, on field, European adventure at the Munich Olympic stadium in 1995, with the scoreboard at half time reading 0-1.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bayern-munich_raith-rovers-fc/index/spielbericht/1061159
Timtim 18th February 2020 at 22:29
I don’t think the cash generated on the night at the turnstile was the crucial aspect although sales of pies and programmes would help but more the payment of the ST money that is only released on a game by game basis.
=============================
At least they should have the cash available to pay their £15,000 fine for failing to control their players and coaching staff in the recent games against Hibs and Celtic.
Edit: Further good news for TRFC is that £5,000 of the fine is suspended.
paddy malarkey 19th February 2020 at 13:19
"…From the Guardian ….Knowledge archive'
_________________—-
I had heard of the wreck of the 'Highland Loch' in another connection, and there is this account with a picture of the travelling group /team
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05m5k19
easyJambo 19th February 2020 at 15:13
'…….Further good news for TRFC is that £5,000 of the fine is suspended.
_____________
Have we any idea what 'Charge 1-proved under deletion' may mean?
From the SFA website ( which incidentally still seems to show Regan as CEO!):
"Principal hearing date: Tuesday 18 February 2020
Outcome:
Charge 1 – Proved under deletion
Sanction – £5000 fine, £3000 immediate and £2000 suspended until End of Season 2019/20 ….."
And is 'suspension'' conditional on good behaviour for the rest of the season?
Or was there a plea that "we can only manage £10 000 of the £15 000 at the moment. Gi'e us some time to pay the rest, eh? "
"Suppose it’s proved another accused had been involved in the conspiracy, but not in all the sub-heads, you would find him guilty under deletion of the sub-heads he wasn’t involved in".
found this in the Jury Manual from June 2017 !
It does suggest that some of the charges – on the first count i.e. the Hibs game – were deleted and Sevco were found guilty on the charges which were not deleted. Perhaps the SFA will issue a commentary to this judgement, explaining what went on.
I remain extremely disappointed that neither Kent nor Morelos have been specifically disciplined for their behaviour – the message may be that this is quite acceptable to the SFA ?
This is going to be interesting, Rangers are looking for new retail partners for 20/21. One assumes that Elite and Hummel are not in the running for this lucrative opportunity.
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/rangers-enter-market-for-kit-retail-partner/
Try, if you can, to find film of James Keatings’ second yellow card for simulation in the semi final of the Lower League Cup Thingy (What’s it called? Challenge Cup?).
It, of course, means he suspended for the final.
Not only should he never have been booked, he’s now lost his appeal.
What on earth were a) The match officials & b) The appeals panel thinking of………oh wait a minute I’ve just remembered who they were playing!
HS
Homunculus 19th February 2020 at 17:40
This is going to be interesting, Rangers are looking for new retail partners for 20/21…
========
Well, it seems that RIFC/TRFC has alienated Hummel and it would appear that the next Ibrox kit supplier will be from an even lower league; Bukta, Le Coq Sportif, Kappa, Patrick, Admiral, …Winfield…?
Don't even know if those brands still exist – but Winfield definitely died with Woolworths!
But, the serious point is this;
TRFC is highly unlikely – IMO – to get a top tier kit deal from e.g. Adidas, Nike, Puma.
It could be argued that the brand is now viewed as even less desirable by kit manufacturers,
…and there is currently a £16M Brand valuation included in the RIFC Balance Sheet, [see Note 10 in the accounts to 30/06/19].
There was no Impairment Charge to the Brand valuation last year, (i.e. RIFC believed their brand was still as marketable for any business deals / partnerships, etc.]
On the face of it, an even lower-end kit supplier deal would indicate (further) impairment of the Brand, i.e. that £16M on the B/S could be devalued…with a corresponding hit to the P&L.
Might not be a huge charge, [on paper], but it would inflate the annual, Ibrox loss figure even more…
Homunculus@17.40
Interesting choice of words in the press release. “Enter the market for kit” Wonderful sophistry. What kit manufacturer would want to hitch their wagon to *Rangers cart horse? Fraught with difficulties. As the club has discovered, you can’t sell the jerseys twice.
In other thoughts, what next for
Murray Park … Auchenhowie … Hummel Training Centre …
Higgy's Shoes 19th February 2020 at 18:05
Try, if you can, to find film of James Keatings’ second yellow card for simulation in the semi final of the Lower League Cup Thingy (What’s it called? Challenge Cup?).
===================================
https://twitter.com/i/status/1230185143677149185
Homunculus 19th February 2020 at 17:40
This is going to be interesting, Rangers are looking for new retail partners for 20/21
==================================
I wonder what SDI will be thinking about their "matching rights" for next season that were upheld by Justice Persey last year.
Notwithstanding the SDI complication, I worder if TRFC is looking to engage with a new retail operator that with give them a substantial sum up front for a multi year deal, to help with their cash requirements, a la JJB Sports.
Ex Ludo 19th February 2020 at 18:34
==================================
They are still tied to Sports Direct.
Elite are holding back £2.5m and there will be a Court case
Clearly the relationship with Hummel has totally broken down.
They have changed their facebook status from "in a relationship" to "single".
I would be surprised if the large companies are going to be getting involved in a bidding war for the business.
From Justice Persey's ruling in July 2019.
It appears that Persey clearly envisaged SDI exercising their matching rights for season 2020/21.
'John Clark 19th February 2020 at 15:47
Have we any idea what 'Charge 1-proved under deletion' may mean?…'
#########################
I am not a lawyer, but I suspect that since Hibs were found guilty of the 'other half' of a similar charge on 06.02.20 (which includes the phrase 'a hostile or argumentative situation with players and/or team staff from the opposing team') for the same incident during the match on 20.12.19, TRFC had no defence to their alleged offence & that their planned evidence of innocence/mitigation was invalid & impermissible (and thus deleted from proceedings).
I may be wrong: I often am!
Homunculus 19th February 2020 at 18:35
In other thoughts, what next for
Murray Park … Auchenhowie … Hummel Training Centre …
======================================
…… Donnay Training Centre or Londsdale Training Centre might fit the bill.
easyJambo 19th February 2020 at 19:37
================================
That's just evil.
ICT isn’t very happy about the Keatings appeal being rejected.
https://ictfc.com/club-statement-9
easyJambo 19th February 2020 at 19:37
Murray Park … Auchenhowie … Hummel Training Centre …
……………..
Will now be called the no longer murray park, the no longer Auchenowie, the no longer called Hummel Training centre,Tranor HQ.
Sad person that I am but due to tribal loyalties I normally am happy when ICT lose! However the decision made by the SFA today to turn down the yellow card appeal is such an injustice that I am have to agree with the statement they have issued. I will even contribute to any crowdfunding required if the SFA decide to punish them financially!
The way things are going it will be the Simmet and Pants Park
Timtim
The Admin Arena
John Clark 19th February 2020 at 15:47
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easyJambo 19th February 2020 at 15:13
‘…….Further good news for TRFC is that £5,000 of the fine is suspended.
Have we any idea what ‘Charge 1-proved under deletion’ may mean?
From the SFA website ( which incidentally still seems to show Regan as CEO!):
“Principal hearing date: Tuesday 18 February 2020
Outcome:
Charge 1 – Proved under deletion
Sanction – £5000 fine, £3000 immediate and £2000 suspended until End of Season 2019/20 …..”
And is ‘suspension” conditional on good behaviour for the rest of the season?
Or was there a plea that “we can only manage £10 000 of the £15 000 at the moment. Gi’e us some time to pay the rest, eh?
…………………
The offset rule.
Homunculus 19th February 2020 at 17:40
This is going to be interesting, Rangers are looking for new retail partners for 20/21.
—————————————————————————————-
So the legal dispute with Uncle Mick is sorted now, is it?
Sounds more tactical than actual H…..Maybe the Sevco SLO has been getting it tight regarding next season's kit, when the chances of reaching next season should be the question. (Haven't they realised Sevco are still £10m short of finishing this one?).
I'm not buying a public announcement surrounding negotiations, which are generally conducted under a veil of secrecy until the "Big reveal"….
Methinks it's merely something to settle the unsettled…….And it's doing the trick, judging by the excited chatter on Sevco medja…….They've forgotten all about tumbling down the league…….If only for a short while..
eJ
"…the decision is plainly wrong and the dogs in the street know this…"
=============
Ha!
That's a classy deliverance of a swift kick to the SFA goolies!
And, yet…
if the SFA CEO Maxwell wasn't a useful, overpaid puppet [or marionette
],
this could be an opportunity to establish his own credibility -and to show everyone that the SFA can indeed change.
[Bear with me on this!]
I'd guess as CEO, he must have some Executive privilege whereby he can – by exception – overrule or rescind an SFA sanctioned decision?
In this example, what if Maxwell stepped in to have the decision set aside ?
Of course, the blazers' heads might explode as they frantically reached for the rule book.
But, it would send a powerful message – both to the SFA staff and to the long suffering, paying customers / supporters.
(I know, wholly hypothetical…).
Does anybody have info on the VAR set up for Ibrox tomorrow and Parkhead next week ?
To be fair on Rangers we should also probably consider the latest development in their Everyone Anyone campaign.
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/everyone-anyone-fans-charter/
Extracts
“It is 2020, there is no place in football or indeed society for racism, homophobia or anti-social behaviour. Ibrox is a place where we can all come together, celebrate our diversity and enjoy the football.
“We have achieved much since our launch, but we cannot become complacent and the campaign will evolve in the weeks and months ahead. The launch of the Fans Charter is the latest strand of this initiative and going forward any supporter buying a season ticket or match tickets will be expected to sign up for this new code of conduct.”
The Everyone Anyone Fans Charter
I pledge to play my part in the initiative by:
Jimmy Bones 19th February 2020 at 17:01
'..you would find him guilty under deletion of the sub-heads he wasn’t involved in".'
_____________
Grateful to you, JB.
It's puzzling , though.
Why would there be charges against a party if they could be deleted because he wasn't involved? Sounds like the 'charge' sheet was made up by the same PF who produced the charge sheet against the 'conspiracy' of the alleged conspirators Green, Whyte and the others!
Homunculus 19th February 2020 at 21:39
‘..To be fair on Rangers we should also probably consider the latest development in their Everyone Anyone campaign…’
Sadly, Homunculus, the ‘Charter’ is missing one very important pledge:
” I pledge to play my part in the initiative by:telling the truth that TRFC, as a club newly admitted to Scottish Football in 2012, is not Rangers football club of 1872 and is consequently telling an untruth and making false claims when it attempts to claim to be that club. In the interests of Sporting Integrity I will uphold the self-evident truth that sporting titles and honours can only be claimed by the clubs that actually won them.”
Without that, the ‘Charter’ is pointless and dishonest and simply a diversionary, hypocritical exercise.
And there can be no moving on with unrepentant cheats.
paddy malarkey 19th February 2020 at 21:27
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Does anybody have info on the VAR set up for Ibrox tomorrow and Parkhead next week
………………………
https://www.fck.dk/en/news/var-new-pitch-and-world-class-lighting-celtic-clash
…………………..
For next week https://twitter.com/rbuchanan1964 Football Stadium Manager May have some information
Extracted from the latest Ibrox statement, re: new kit supplier;
"…Furthermore, Rangers will celebrate its landmark 150th year in 2022, which represents a unique opportunity for the successful partner to join the anniversary celebrations."
Yet another reason to hope that the Ibrox club is dead – and buried – sooner, rather than later…
StevieBC
Agreed, my own club, celtic, facilitate it as well, that's why I no longer spend money in scottish football, its a laughing stock
The latest advertising for a kit manufacturer to bid for a deal for next season is an act of desperation or should I say another act of desperation. What it is telling us is nobody has approached them even though they will be well aware a deal is up for negotiation and any approaches made by Rangers* to encourage a deal have been rebuffed . Why would anyone waste their time and money preparing an offer that Ashley merely has to match in order to seal the deal .Why would a rival company prepare a deal that has to be shown to Ashley. Their past is now coming back to haunt them , they are toxic , they cannot be trusted and King is still hiding behind the curtain . The man they all wanted , the man they sacrificed a real billionaire and successful businessman for , the man that everybody without blue tinted specs warned them about will be the man that condemns them to insolvency.
Timtim
The Simmet and Pants Park
I near died laughing.
'Simmet and Pants of Argyle Street'
Fine purveyors of footballing apparel since 2020
James Bisgrove, Rangers’ Commercial and Marketing Director commented: “We’re delighted to announce that we shall be engaging with potential partners that can deliver an official Rangers kit supply and retail operation that mirrors the demand of the club’s global fan base.”
I put that quote into google translate. It came up with the Spanish phrase 'estamos jodidos'.
Re Rangers searching for a new kit manufacturer. I assume either Ashley will be able to move in and match any offer?
On another note, how many clubs of the brand magnitude they claim to be ever have to publicly reach out to try and get a manufacturer?
StevieBC 19th February 2020 at 22:36
'…, Rangers will celebrate its landmark 150th year in 2022….'
________________________
If the 'Bismarck' hadn't been sunk on St Valentine's day in 1941, she would have been 81 last Friday, and if the loathsome Adolf hadnae killed himself, he would be 133 in 2022.
RFC of 1872 died on 31 October 2012 as finally and conclusively as both of the above.
Shame on those who try to pervert the truth of that actual fact:they deserve nothing but our scorn and contempt.
My working assumption is that the original contract terms with SDI are still active.
If so, I don't think there is a 'window' for TRFC to find new merchandising partners for next season.
In these circumstances, it seems highly unlikely that any reputable sportswear manufacturers and/or retailers would touch TRFC with someone else's bargepole.
Is yesterday's announcement simply a prod to SDI to seek an injunction/interdict to enforce its existing rights for next season?
There is no easy way out of this mess for TRFC.
Going back to the original SDI terms under a court order – rather than doing so voluntarily – might just be considered to be the least worst outcome.
It is difficult, if not impossible, to work out the point or objective of the most recent Statement. I'm guessing Adidas, Nike et al have got commercial arms with things like phone numbers that T'Rangers could use to sort out the ever escalating bids to be a "Partner".
One obvious challenge is that the successful bidder to ascend the marble staircase will be part of the celebrations of the landmark 150th year. How many companies are going to tender on the basis that the kit is still going to be around in 142 years time?
The tenor of the Statement gives the impression of desperation with a touch of delusion. Why not mention the exciting prospect of a Joint Venture into the world of Trackside Marketing and Retail experience? As Homunculus has observed the lucky bidder could have their brand tied in to the former Murray Park, Auchenhowie, Hummel Training Centre with the grand opening of The Erzi Wrigley Spearmint And Yer Macaroon Bar Lodge Of Footballing Excellence.
I think the most professional part of The Statement is the email address at the end. Most helpful if you can't figure out how to contact The Most Successful Club In The World. There are shades of the grand launch of Level 5; Blythswood Square location; champagne flowing, Walter Smith and Murdo McLeod (i.e. no bigotry here), proudly declaring that with zero PR experience this was the greatest PR outfit ever all ending with the website advising that the contact point was a mobile telephone number. Nothing says professionalism like a burner phone.
I pity whoever has to plough through the email responses this morning and then have to take the results to the Blue Room. One consolation will be that unless PC World have new lines of credit (buy now; pay in 2690) they won't have to weed out tyre-kicking time wasters from South Africa.
I think we should remember that RIFC/TRFC have continually confounded us by their ability to pull the wool over the eyes of businesses and businessmen we all tend to assume have a basic level of business acumen. The name 'Rangers' still seems to capture the imagination, or is it greed, of companies operating within, and on the fringes, of football, and with the one genuine claim to 'greatness' they possess, circa 50,000 at most matches, a sure-fire selling point when it comes to a merchandising lure, I'm pretty sure they will find some mug company that will give them a fairly lucrative contract. I doubt it will be as good as their most recent one, but they will get one. Whether that contract survives the litigation that will almost certainly follow is another matter altogether.
I suspect, though, that TRFC will be looking for an upfront payment, probably in time for yesterday!
The terms of the injunction appear to prevent TRFC using Hummel for next season's kit, so I can understand them seeking a new supplier. The original deal was for three years, but ran to season 2020/21.
What I don't get is why they are also looking for someone to run their retail operation, when SDI was prepared to meet the "matching rights" of the Elite deal while Hummel remained the kit supplier.
Under the terms of the agreement TRFC could only seek a new partner in the last six months of the end of the current deal, which would mean January 2021. They are a year too early, in my view, and are likely to end up back in court in fairly short order.
Surely this established sportswear manufacturer is the perfect fit for TRFC?
https://www.oneills.com/uk_en/
They seem to have worldwide reach according to their list of clubs that they supply:
https://www.oneills.com/uk_en/clubs
Then again, perhaps not!
Catching up here but just saw the James Keatings " crime" for the first time . That truly beggars belief, feel sorry for the player that he is now got to sit out a Cup Final because of the Clowns at the SFA . Firstly I have to blame the referee . ICT went out of their way in their statement to not blame the ref and to say their was nothing underhand going on with the panel who sat in Judgement. Well in my opinion it was nt a penalty but for a ref to not realise it was a " coming together" of 2 players is imcompetent at the very least. For the SFA to then look at the video evidence and dismiss it is ASTOUNDING !!!!. I think ICT are on the button about people on the panels not understanding football but there is something way more sinister going on . The SFA have tied their selves up in knots over the past 8 years or so with everything regarding a certain blue team from Glasgow . The recent Morelos/ Kent inaction being the latest . Its as if they now deliberately make wrong decisions to try and justify it isnt just Rangers decisions we get wrong ! Crazy as it sounds . When oh when are the club chairmen gonna finally say enough is enough and send them on their way…. a ( football) boy can dream
Roddy Bhoy
I see Leane Dempster of Hibs is joining the ranks of the disaffected with the SFA Judicial Panel Protocol .
She should read SFM's view at https://www.sfm.scot/jpp-perverting-justice/ on the failings of the system and how to put it right.
If anyone is having issues withe hyperlink from Auldheids post above then just drop the last part ie use:
https://www.sfm.scot/jpp-perverting-justice
roddybhoy 20th February 2020 at 11:03
"Its as if they now deliberately make wrong decisions to try and justify it isnt just Rangers decisions we get wrong !"
Mate, you missed the important part that links the ridiculous dismissal and panel review with the SFA's ongoing handling of Rangers*………..Keatings' dismissal came when ICT were drawing 1-1 with……. Rangers* !
Admittedly only the Colts, but they had to be given the best chance of reaching a final, didn't they? The panel decision was just sour grapes, I imagine.
What happens if nobody bids for the kit retail deal ? Can Ashley toss a £1 coin over the table and claim the lot ? Would King set up a bogus offer in the hope Ashley would match it ? Can Ashley just not bother which would be literally taking the shirt off their back. This is turning into an utter shambles created entirely by Dave King . The pitch is infected, the retail deal is shambolic, the shortfall is lethal, the fans are toxic, the players are unsellable , the manager is unsackable , the bills are mounting and the Chairman is a criminal pariah that has been cold shouldered by the City. Who in their right mind would want to invest in this organisation and be associated with it. They are clinging on to the hope of a Europa League run to fund them in the short term , Braga can bring it all crashing down with a win tonight.
Timtim 20th February 2020 at 13:07
What happens if nobody bids for the kit retail deal ? Can Ashley toss a £1 coin over the table and claim the lot ? Would King set up a bogus offer in the hope Ashley would match it ? Can Ashley just not bother which would be literally taking the shirt off their back. This is turning into an utter shambles created entirely by Dave King . The pitch is infected, the retail deal is shambolic, the shortfall is lethal, the fans are toxic, the players are unsellable , the manager is unsackable , the bills are mounting and the Chairman is a criminal pariah that has been cold shouldered by the City. Who in their right mind would want to invest in this organisation and be associated with it. They are clinging on to the hope of a Europa League run to fund them in the short term , Braga can bring it all crashing down with a win tonight.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Braga!
Just in the passing, I have received this from the FCA today
"Thank you for your email on on 14 February 2020, which is receiving our attention. We will contact you again shortly to set out how we are dealing with the matters raised.
Further information on we handle complaints and the work of the Complaints Team can be found here.
If you require any additional information in the meantime please contact us….."
—
What's the betting that a period of time will pass, I will send a reminder/request for update, and will get a message to the effect that they can find no trace of anything I have sent and will I please send copies……!?
Yep, and with the additional rain since Sunday – and even just today – the Ibrox pitch is going to churn up tonight.
It could be a 'scrappy' game against Braga, just like the Livi game.
…and if TRFC was to lose by 2 goals tonight… the torch and pitchfork mob could be venting their frustrations on Edmiston Drive after the game…
It never rains, but it pours at Ibrox these days!
Auldheid 20th February 2020 at 12:19
..".I see Leane Dempster of Hibs is joining the ranks of the disaffected with the SFA Judicial Panel Protocol".
____________
The ICT statement,signed by their CEO and Countersigned by their Chairman ends with these words:
"..there is clearly something wrong with the system, if it is not addressed, we are all responsible for the continuing denigration of our standards, our supporters view of the national game and sporting integrity in Scottish football."
I would feel rather more sympathy with ICT (and with such other clubs and Chairmen who apparently have united in a show of support with them) if they had not allowed our game to be so perverted as to allow a new club to claim the titles and honours of a dead club!
Letting a cheating club claim to be something that it is not has been extremely damaging.
That was an act of perversion of sports governance about which there can be no two legitimate opinions.
And if that core of deceit and rottenness had been properly excised at the time, we might have had some chance of keeping high standards of sporting integrity and good, sensible and fair application of discipline in relation to ordinary players and on-field alleged offences.
[I agree of course that the video evidence in the Keating case is clear that he has no case to answer and the refusal of his appeal is perverse in the extreme.
I wonder whether there might not be justifiable reason for seeking Judicial Review of what to many appears to be decision based on complete disregard of filmed evidence?]
Clashing court dates for next week. You wait a few weeks with nothing, then along come a couple of cases scheduled at the same time.
LORD DOHERTY – C Munn, Clerk
Wednesday 26th February At 9.00am
Starred Motion
CA86/19 David Grier v Chief Inspector Police Service of Scotland – Kennedys Scotland – Ledingham Chalmers LLP – A & WM Urquhart
LADY WOLFFE – C Stark, Clerk
Wednesday 26th February At 9.00am
Pre-Proof By Order
CA132/18 Memorial Walls Ltd v The Rangers Football Club Ltd – MacRoberts LLP – Anderson Strathern LLP
Just to let everyone who is interested know, this is the Final response from the BBC to a complaint I had lodged with them. It came after I had gone through the whole appeals process;
“HMRC drops further £5m from Rangers tax claim”, BBC News Website.
I am writing to let you know the outcome of the Executive Complaints Unit’s investigation into your recent complaint about the above article on the BBC News website. I have understood you to say the opening sentence of the article was incorrect and misleading and, as a result, perpetuated “the lie that the present team who play out of Ibrox are the same club”. I have therefore considered your complaint in light of the standards for due accuracy which are set out in section 3 of the BBC’s Editorial Guidelines.
I do not believe there are grounds to uphold your complaint but I hope I can explain the reasons why I have reached this conclusion.
My understanding is Rangers FC, the football club, was owned and operated by The Rangers Football Club PLC and this company went into administration on 14 February 2012. The company’s “business, history and assets” (which included the football club) were subsequently transferred to Sevco Scotland Ltd on 14 June 2012 by the administrators, Duff and Phelps1. On 31 July 2012, Sevco Scotland Ltd changed its name to The Rangers Football Club Limited and The Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration) changed its name to RFC 2012 PLC. RFC 2012 PLC was placed into liquidation on 31 October 2012 with BDO LLP appointed as liquidators.
The administrators of Rangers Football Club PLC (Duff and Phelps), the liquidators of RFC 2012 PLC (BDO LLP), and those representing the Scottish football authorities have all taken the view the football club was part of the “business and assets” purchased by Sevco Scotland Ltd/The Rangers Football Club Limited. For example, one of the joint administrators, Paul Clark, said on 12 June 2012:
We have been informed by HMRC they will not support the proposal for a Company
Voluntary Arrangement at the meeting of creditors on Thursday, June 14. As aresult of this decision, the Sale and Purchase Agreement in place with the consortium led by Charles Green will take effect and Rangers Football Club will continue within a new company structure…
… HMRC has taken the view that the public interest will be better served with the liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc as a corporate entity. The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure.
In its interim report dated 10 July 2012, Duff & Phelps stated at paragraph 10.9:
“The history and the spirit of the Club have been preserved by the sale which was completed on 14 June 2012 and it is now the responsibility of the new owners to secure its future.”
One of the liquidators at BDO, Malcolm Cohen, said on 12 June 2012:
It is important to understand that the appointment of liquidators will not mean the end of football at Ibrox – only the end of the company that ran the club.
A statement from HMRC said on the same day2:
Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA. Rangers can make a fresh start.
In an interview with BBC Sport on 1 January 2015, the Chief Executive of the Scottish Premier League, Neil Doncaster, said:
Neil Doncaster: The decision, very clearly from the commission, was that the club is the same, the club continues, albeit it is owned by a new company, but the club is the same.
BBC Question: So the official take from the SPFL is that Rangers Football Club continues, it’s the same club?
Neil Doncaster: Yes, it’s the same club, absolutely.
He clarified the difference between a football club and a company in this context as follows:
Neil Doncaster: The member club is the entity that participates in our league and we have 42 member clubs. Those clubs may be owned by a company, sometimes it’s a Private Limited Company, sometimes it’s a PLC, but ultimately, the company is a legal entity in its own right, which owns a member club that participates in the league.
BBC Question: So, once and for all, the league is putting this to bed, it’s the sameclub? Neil Doncaster: It was put to bed by the Lord Nimmo Smith commission some while ago – it’s the same club.
I appreciate you may disagree with the views cited above and the understanding of those I have quoted but the evidence appears to support the view it is RFC 2012 PLC, the company which previously owned Rangers FC, the football club, which is facing a claim for unpaid tax from HMRC. The football club was part of the “business, history and assets” sold to Sevco Scotland Ltd on 14 June 2012 and so it is widely recognised the football club is not involved in the HMRC action. In conclusion, I do not believe the article was inaccurate or misleading and so I do not have grounds to uphold your complaint. There is no provision for further appeal against this decision within the BBC but if you do wish to take the matter further, it is open to you to ask the broadcasting regulator, Ofcom, to consider your complaint. If Ofcom thinks your complaint raises a potentially substantive issue, it will give an opinion on whether the BBC has observed its editorial guidelines. Information about Ofcom’s role regarding BBC online material can be found here and information about lodging a complaint with Ofcom can be found here. You can also write to Ofcom at Riverside House, 2a Southwark Bridge Road, London SE1 9HA.
I will be sending a further appeal to Ofcom. I will post the outcome.
watcher 20th February 2020 at 16:44
Well done for eliciting some sort of reply, albeit a cowardly one totally lacking in any suggestion that any 'investigation' was carried out other than to search their archives for quotes, as if quotes are, in themselves, proof of anything.
The following from Doncaster is worth a visit, I think, in that it is completely untrue, for we know that the 'club' registered with both the SFA and the SPL, as was, is, in fact, a limited company. It is also extremely wrong to suggest a 'club' can be owned, unless it has some corporate form, as in, you cannot own something that has no record of its existence, and if something such did exist we can be 100% sure we would all have had sight of it by now. Clearly, if the BBC had any wish to come up with the truth of the matter, they would have asked for sight of the membership documents of Rangers Football Club (as was) that show that the member of the SPL was, in fact, not the limited company. Unless I am completely wrong, and the members of the Scottish FA and Leagues are genuinely registered as 'clubs' and not limited companies, then if Neil Doncaster is accurately quoted, he lied. And if he had to lie..!
"Neil Doncaster: The member club is the entity that participates in our league and we have 42 member clubs. Those clubs may be owned by a company, sometimes it’s a Private Limited Company, sometimes it’s a PLC, but ultimately, the company is a legal entity in its own right, which owns a member club that participates in the league."
Something that I've been mulling over ever since CW re-opened the OCNC debate is the following question:
If Sevco (Scotland) Limited hadn't changed its name to The Rangers Football Club Limited, would there now be any sort of 'Rangers' playing in the SPFL? Quite simply, Charles Green had to change the name of his company to be able to register his football club as 'The Rangers FC', and, again, if I am wrong about this, and it is not TRFC Ltd that is registered with the game's governors, we'd have seen the documentary proof quite some time ago.
Again, and I apologise for repeating this, but, if there is any documentary proof of what Doncaster says in existence, then we would have seen it at the very outset of Charles Green's 'Rangers'. I also repeat that if there is no documentary evidence of what Doncaster says in existence then what he says is a lie and there has to be a reason that he had to lie, and that reason could only be that the club currently playing as Rangers is a new club.
watcher 20th February 2020 at 16:44
'…Just to let everyone who is interested know, this is the Final response from the BBC'
++++++++++++
You've done very well, watcher,in getting the BBC to show such clear evidence of being party to the propagation of deceit and lies , making ars.s of themselves in so doing!
Aj has nicely made the points that need to be made.
The fundamental fact is that a new club was created and admitted into Scottish Football. Why would that have been necessary if the club that was owned by the plc had not gone into liquidation? Why would the new owner of club that was already in membership of the SFA have to set up a new club?
There was only one entity that was a member of the SFA : RFC plc of 1872. It lost that membership when it entered Liquidation.
And all the Donalda MacKinnons and BBC Executive Complaints Units personnel's repetition of 'evidence' from the parties most complicit in the Big Lie cannot change that fact.
I shall actively support the call for abolition of the BBC's special position, because while I wholly subscribe to freedom of opinion and freedom to express opinion, I could not in all rationality accept the propagation by a publicly funded broadcasting company of factual untruths as being expressions of 'opinion'.
And in this one disgusting little saga about a cheating football club, the BBC is propagating an untruth.
May the liars whose wages we are paying pay in their turn for their betrayal of Truth and lie as uncomfortably in their beds as Judas might have done if he hadn't hanged himself first!
easyJambo 20th February 2020 at 16:12
'..You wait a few weeks with nothing, then along come a couple of cases scheduled at the same time.'
_____________
Isn't that just like the thing?
And both beginning at nine. ( I wonder are the 'reforms' going so far as to make judges work 'nine till five' instead of 10 till 4?)
I'm interested in both cases, of course, but I'll probably opt to attend the 'memorial walls' case since it is directly related to TRFC's finances and contract law, whereas the Grier matter is personal to Grier rather directly involving TRFC/
That's if the distaff side let's me attend at all!
Maybe see you in Court next week!
Does anyone know what connection there may be between Sportscotland monies, Auchenhowie, and the SFA?
Some kind of public monies involved in a wee tie-up with referee training and such like? and bugger all to do with 'community' access?
Does anyone believe that Sportscotland will tell us?
Do I?
Short answer?
No, I distrust anything that any public agency had to do with what had been SDM's football club, and now has to do with TRFC.
That's what happens when erstwhile First Ministers defend cheating sports clubs.
God Almighty! The implications that a sports governance body should be in bed with a corrupt member supposedly subject to its discipline!
Oh, my word!
And honest to God!
watcher 20th February 2020 at 16:44 Edit
When you approach Offcom you might want to point out that the SPFL and SFA are bound by their articles to observe and be subject to UEFA Regulations, which will include UEFA FFP and specifically Article 12 that defines an applicant for a UEFA licence.
It starts with an applicant can only be a CLUB, that is a legal entity who can apply and then goes on to define both a club as an applicant or a company with a written contract to operate a club as an applicant. I'll post it in full next after this comment.
You might want to ask Offcom
a) Given SFA/SPFL subservience to UEFA rules who is the ultimate FOOTBALL authority of what constitutes a club eligible to apply for a UEFA license and did the BBC approach UEFA for their view, if not why not? Comment from UEFA is noticeable by its absence in their reply.
b) Have the BBC seen the response of 8th June 2016 to Celtic shareholder solicitors at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9ckdxNTU4bFIyNFU/view?usp=sharing
that sets out the view of UEFA Head of Club Licensing that the current applicant for a UEFA Licence is a NEW club/company (where a written contract between RFC and RIFC may or may not exist, but in either instance, club or a company with a contract to operate a club is NEW and so cannot be the same club (under Article 12) that applied for a UEFA Licence in 2012 and previous years and in fact were told by UEFA they were ineligible to apply for a licence until attaining 3 years membership of the SFA, precisely because they were new under UEFA rules.
(RFC were denied their application for 2012/13 because they had no audited accounts. TRFC/RIFC were denied applying until 2016 under Article 12.
c) Did the BBC establish if Doncaster got approval from UEFA for his view that conflicts with the integrity protecting intent of Article 12 of UEFA FFP when establishing the 5 Way Agreement?
d) Did the BBC establish if a written contract existed between RFC and whoever went into liquidation and if so who or what exactly went into liquidation if no contract existed?
e) Are BBC aware that Doncaster used a change in SFA rules in 2005 introducing the concept of a separation of owner and club to deal with Romanov of Hearts and so the concept that became a rule was not around when RFC were founded and its introduction in 2005 did not suddenly separate all Scottish clubs from companies in whose name they were registered.
In brief the BBC response is not based on the final European football authority on what constitutes a club seeking a club licence and the BBC dependence on lower and even non footballing authorities to justify their response lacks the balance that the BBC say they observed.
At the very least UEFA should have been approached before replying to you and asked why they did not treat TRFC/RIFC as the same club as RFC from 2012. They will point out one of the purposes of Article 12 is to uphold the integrity of UEFA competitions, something that Doncaster's view conflicts with and so totally undermines the integrity of Scottish football.
He was not alone in his endeavours.
Duplicate comment removed
Watcher.
The rules UEFA FFP is from 2011 and apply in 2012. SPFL rules 2017, SFA 2014/15 but much the same in other periods.
UEFA FFP.
Chapter 2: Licence Applicant and Licence
Article 12 – Definition of licence applicant
1 A licence applicant may only be a football club, i.e. a legal entity fully responsible
for a football team participating in national and international competitions which
either:
a) is a registered member of a UEFA member association and/or its affiliated
league (hereinafter: registered member); or
b) has a contractual relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: football
company).
2 The membership and the contractual relationship (if any) must have lasted – at
the start of the licence season – for at least three consecutive years. Any
alteration to the club’s legal form or company structure (including, for example,
changing its headquarters, name or club colours, or transferring stakeholdings
between different clubs) during this period in order to facilitate its qualification on
sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence to the detriment of the integrity of a
competition is deemed as an interruption of membership or contractual
relationship (if any) within the meaning of this provision.
SPFL Rules
Agreement on Compliance with Applicable Rules, Statutes and Regulations
B4 Membership of the League shall constitute an agreement between the Company and each Club, and between each of the Clubs, to be bound by and to comply with:
B4.1 these Rules and the Articles;
B4.2 Regulations made from time to time by the Board as authorised by the Articles;
B4.3 the Scottish FA Articles and the statutes and regulations of UEFA and FIFA;
B4.4 the Laws of the Game; and
B4.5 the terms of the agreements entered into between the SPL and the SFL in 2013 for the purposes of constituting, forming and organising the SPFL insofar as such terms apply from time to time to the members of the League.
THE SCOTTISH FA AND ITS MEMBERSHIP (2015)
3. The Scottish FA
The Scottish FA is a member of FIFA and UEFA. Accordingly, it is itself obliged to:-
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance
with the principles of fair play;
(b) comply with the statutes, regulations, directives, codes and decisions and the
International Match Calendar of FIFA, UEFA and the Court of Arbitration for
Sport, and the Laws of the Game;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport
as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA
Statutes;
(d) use its best endeavours, to the extent legally permissible, to procure that
in the final instance any dispute arising under these Articles (and which is
referred to it) is determined by arbitration pursuant to Article 99; and
(e) use its best endeavours to ensure that the leagues, clubs, players, officials,
matches and Players’ Agents under its jurisdiction (through their statutes,
licences, regulations or any other written document) acknowledge and
accept all the above mentioned obligations and agree to be bound by and
observe these Articles.
https://www.scribd.com/document/214043163/SFL-Constitution-Rules
It is interesting that the BBC quote Neil Doncaster's opinions on Sevco's status.
Interesting, but those opinions should be largely irrelevant.
Sevco Scotland Ltd began its existence as a SFL club – Mr Doncaster as the SPL's CEO had no locus in offering an opinion on another league's member club.
Only association football clubs could apply to become associate members of the SFL.
Sevco Scotland Ltd could only apply for associate membership of the SFL because it presented itself as an association football club.
Members (including associate members) of the SFL were recognised as having legal form – Sevco Scotland Ltd is of course, a corporate body.
No-one could read the SFL's Rules & Constitution and not consider Sevco Scotland Ltd to be an association football club.
Sevco Scotland Ltd is not, of course, The Rangers Football Club PLC.
It really is that simple.
Incidentally, there is nothing in the SFL's Rules and Constitution that would have allowed the Committee (Board) to sanction a change in these rules without a vote by the members.
Whoever signed up to the 5WA (which treats a specific association club as a metaphysical construct) on behalf of the SFL would not (imo) have had the legal authority to do so.
"watcher 20th February 2020 at 16:44
Just to let everyone who is interested know, this is the Final response from the BBC to a complaint I had lodged with them. ….. I will be sending a further appeal to Ofcom. I will post the outcome."
——————————————————————————————–
IMHO this response from the BBC is an excellent development. I'm not sure I recall seeing anything this detailed previously. This provides a possibly unique opportunity to address the arguments put forward in a similarly detailed fashion.
Could I suggest that Watcher liaises with the various SFM authorities on this subject to draft an appropriate response to the BBC and copy it to Ofcom? The fact that Ofcom is the next step should mean that the BBC will have to properly address refuting arguments and the potential exists to force them to acknowledge the truth rather than fall back on what is in many ways unreliable hearsay (I'm talking about you Doncaster).
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Some more thoughts on the BBC response to Watcher.
They seem to love their quotes, but have proven themselves to be more than a little selective in whose words they quote by avoiding any that point to the opposite argument, such as the judge (can't recall his name) who laughed the notion of the same club out of court, or, as Auldheid referred to previously, the quote from the UEFA Head of Club Licensing, Andrea Traverso, that stated UEFA's position and why they could take no action against the club now calling itself 'Rangers'.
Now, as I've said previously, what someone, that's anyone, says does not make anything true, only the facts make something true, and if the BBC can't find one fact to back up its stance, on anything, then it's a safe assumption that those facts don't exists – and the BBC, along with the whole of the SMSM, has had 8 long years to come up with one single fact, yet they have not. They hide behind the quotes of conflicted people. They even ignore the words (spoken through his legal counsel in a court of law, not some loaded tribunal held under a (paid for by one conflicted party) retired judge) of the man most central of all to the participants in the creation of TRFC, the very man who changed the name of Sevco to The Rangers Football Club Ltd to facilitate its membership of the SFA and the SFL, Charles Green, who stated quite clearly that he did not buy a football club (Rangers), he bought a basket of assets.
Those words of Charles Green, upheld by the judge, proved that, under the law of the land, it is a legal fact that TRFC is not a continuation of RFC, it is a new club, but not one character from any of the quoted people or associations has even attempted to argue against it, for to do so would require some evidence to show that football is not subject to the laws of the land. But not only is football subject to the laws of the land, even if it wasn't it would require documents that would show the separation of club from company that Doncaster claimed to exist. As I've previously said, if any such documents existed we know, beyond doubt, that they would have been published long before now.
Now here's a thing. I don't know what procedures and forms are required to achieve membership of the SFA and SFL etc, but I do know that some forms have to be signed. So who signed those forms, and in what capacity did they sign? Now I don't know the answer, never having seen the required documents, but if they have been signed with the designation 'director' or 'CEO' or 'for The Rangers Football Club Limited' etc, then it is beyond doubt that the member is a limited company, and nothing else. On the other hand, if it has been signed with different designations that may indicate some body other than a limited company, such as an association or unincorporated club, then there would also have to be articles of association of that club in existence, with copies held by the governing bodies, for the registration to be legal.
So it's really quite simple, and the OCNC debate could be ended in a flash, if only Neil Doncaster had the gumption to publish the documents that prove what he said is true.
Now when Neil Doncaster said the following it was pretty unequivocal, as though he was speaking a provable fact and giving much more than just his opinion. It was as though he thought his position and perceived (by himself) gravitas lent an authority to his words that would go unquestioned. Well he was right as far as the whole of the SMSM was concerned, but his lack of evidence offered can only leave the questioning mind with the opinion that no such evidence exists, and his words, therefor, are untrue.
"Neil Doncaster: The member club is the entity that participates in our league and we have 42 member clubs. Those clubs may be owned by a company, sometimes it’s a Private Limited Company, sometimes it’s a PLC, but ultimately, the company is a legal entity in its own right, which owns a member club that participates in the league."
Again, this in bold has to be an out and out lie, for you cannot 'own' something that doesn't exist in a sellable form. This is the problem when trying to convince people of something that is a nonsense, for there is no words to use that do not, in themselves, prove that it is a nonsense.
Sorry, this post just keeps getting longer, but.
If there is even the least possibility that what Doncaster said holds even a modicum of truth, then there has to be a paper trail. There has to be documents lodged with the SFA/SFL/SPFL in the name of separate clubs, AND, documents that show the separate clubs are owned by some separate entity, such as a limited company. As I say, it would be so easy to prove that the clubs that are registered with the SFA and league are not limited companies.
When I read all this I can't help wishing this whole malarkey was taken to court to settle it once and for all. Either the CAS or the Court of Session. Blatant lies are being nourished in the media on a daily basis. The public are being misled.
And that's aside from the fraud involved with Res. 12 issues.
While reading the reports from the States about Roger Stone getting 40 moons in the pokey for lying, obstruction and witness tampering and the immediate not so subtle hints from POTUS that Mr Stone might not have to serve even one night in jail I had an uncomfortable thought. If words like "exoneration" are being bandied about without a hint of a blush in Mr Stone's case what, if any, are the limits?
Just because previous office holders have not done so is there anything to stop SFA President Rod Petrie granting a Presidential Pardon? (I know; rules, schmules, see Sandy Bryson, he'll give you the script.)
A Pardon to who/for what? Well, T'Rangers, obviously. And Rangers. Better include Sevco. Both of them. David Murray. (Is he still a "Sir"? Fred Goodwin'll be raging.) All the EBT beneficiaries (Save time; Pardon in BBC staff canteen). All of SMSM. Dave King (Let Courts in South Africa know they're clueless.) BFDJ? Alex Rage? (Doubt they'll follow but why not?).
For what? Everything, Anything.
Previous Presidential Pardons were not possible as the last President wasn't a real one; as our own John Clark was told President Alan McRae served under Darryl "I Am The SFA" Broadfoot. If you go back further, to 2011 (I'm sure something happened then, can't recall what) President Campbell Ogilvie could have granted the Presidential Pardon but it might have been seen as a bit rum to grant a Pardon to, inter alia, yourself. Even The Donald would draw a line there.
I see from the Wikipedia entry for the SFA its name in Scots Gaelic is:-
Comann Ball-coise na h-Alba.
You don't have to be an anagram genius to see where the first word comes from.
https://thecelticstar.com/read-former-celtic-director-willie-haugheys-grovelling-apology-from-craig-whyte/
LUGOSI 21st February 2020 at 09:36
…
Just because previous office holders have not done so is there anything to stop SFA President Rod Petrie granting a Presidential Pardon? (I know; rules, schmules, see Sandy Bryson, he’ll give you the script.)
…
=======================
Well that’s the kicker Lugosi.
The – apparently – main architect of the disgraceful, secretive 5WA is now the de facto, ‘Executive President’ of the SFA.
An uncontested promotion for a job well done?
And there have been so many ‘unprecedented’ decisions made by the SFA since 2012, that a [secretive] ‘Presidential type’ football pardon or exemption/allowed exception(s) would seem like small beer to what Petrie has delivered in the past on behalf of the blazers – and on behalf of ALL the clubs.
tony 21st February 2020 at 10:11
https://thecelticstar.com/read-former-celtic-director-willie-haugheys-grovelling-apology-from-craig-whyte/
==========================
I was surprised when reading the book that Whyte claimed that there had been some formal discussions with Haughey about a deal.
However, I do recall Haughey’s name coming up as a potential financial backer on RTC around that time. If I recall correctly, he was first identified by someone “in the know” with a clue of him having made his money in refrigeration.
If there was an easy way of searching the RTC archive I would do it.
"Scottish FA shown 'lack of ambition' in meeting 2020 targets, says Henry McLeish"
By Alasdair Lamont
BBC Scotland
…
"How do we hold to account the SFA president, vice-president and the board members?"
…
BBC Scotland approached the SFA for an interview with chief executive Ian Maxwell or performance director Malky Mackay, but this has not been provided.
========
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51416943
Perhaps pardons have already been granted – drawing a line and moving on. No need to inform pesky supporters….
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Some more thoughts on the BBC response to Watcher.
Unfortunately, I don't retain any "archive" of the various documents regarding Green's takeover. However, if my memory serves me correctly, there was no mention of "history" in the "bill of sale" although some suggested it would be included in the "goodwill" or other item.
As many people agreed in 2012, the very concept of buying "history" as an item in a sale is a nonsense. An example I gave at the time, (while the OC/NC debate is re-opened), if Sir Chris Hoy fell on hard times, (god forbid) and was declared in sequestration. As part of a sale of his assets, I buy his racing bike, his GB Olympic lycra cycling suit, and one of his many gold medals, would I then be an Olympic Champion?
Of course not, utter nonsense.
Let's assume I then approach the IOC with a request to have the record books changed to show me as the winner of the relevant race and holder of the gold medal, do you think they would go all SFA'ish on me and grant me said title???? Of course not.
The BBC's response to watcher appears to have been produced by a group of employees, (extra staunch people) with an agenda to find every quote/opinion they can, supporting their position of pro-TRFC (2angers) bias, without as has been said above one shred of factual evidence. Shame on them!
If further correspondence is to take place with them, perhaps we could ask them to explain away a number of facts, contradictory to their dignified beliefs. Mine would be;
If only clubs can be members of the SFA and 2angers are the same club as RFC PLC, why was there a need to transfer the membership?
I'm not going all EPL this that and the other on you all. Goodness knows the BBC's response being discussed makes me want to. And we need no reminder as to the power of PR particularly when maliciously applied to something in which we hold an emotional attachment.
But having said all that, I give you….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-51580401
(Not sure if the link works – search for the story on Jurgen Klopp's response by letter to the young ManU fan's letter of complaint (that Liverpool were winning and ManU werent
) and be sure to read the letter itself.))
Bluster is thankfully temporary but class is permanent.
Smugas 21st February 2020 at 13:57
While the TVs in the bar we were sitting in, The American Indian in Puerto del Carmen, Lanzarote, were showing Liverpool's amazing win against Barcelona in the Champions League semi-final, my wife started talking to an Irish lady at the next table. I paid little attention to their conversation but afterwards my wife told me that the lady was a friend of Jurgen Klopp, having met him through her husband who was German goalkeeper and had almost signed for Liverpool but was currently with a club in Germany. Typical of my wife she didn't think to ask for names or get any other details. Jings! Still, the lady didn't appear to be any sort of BS spouter and my wife certainly took her to be genuine (besides, her 2 teenage daughters were with her and it's unlikely she'd BS in front of them).
Anyway, my wife said the lady was full of praise for him as a friend and human being and described him as an extremely intelligent and caring man. That letter seems to confirm this opinion of him.
Never heard him use the words, 'sick as a parrot', 'over the moon' etc…so he's certainly a breath of fresh air for the English language as used by most managers in British football
Stevie BC.
It's a pity McLeish or BBC did not comment on one of the aims of the 20 20 Vision that the SFA should now be measured against was to be an organisation that can be trusted. I'm on mobile so cannot paste actual words but if ever there was an area of massive fail in the SFA vision it is in that single objective.
It is key to being a SPORTING body yet they are not trustworthy.
In that respect I take issue with McLeish's view that the SFA should be the dictator of the services they provide to Scottish football and SPFL should have less say as the customer of those services.
I fail to understand how a body no one trusts because they are unaccountable should be given more power rather than less unless accountability is built in to the system and that supporters should be part of the body to whom they are accountable.
Lack of transparency and accountability is the structural problem and whatever takes the place of the current unfit for purpose organisations has to have those two factors built into the foundations.
Can I thank everyone for the help in putting forward my appeal to Ofcom.
I will be working on it over the weekend.
Auldheid, AJ, JC. Thank you for the information.
I will be using all the help I can get.
redlichtie, your thoughts are taken on board.
Scottish football needs Honesty,Respect and Truth, as well as a strong Arbroath
.
I did smile at the response, as it arrived just after the owner of the previous Club
had said in a BBC interview…….
Question by BBC are Rangers a new club?
Answer by previous owner Craig White. YES Obviously they are.
I concur with the previous owner of the OLD CLUB.
For anyone interested the response was signed by Colin Tregear.
BBC Complaints Director.
Auldheid
Why can't you paste words on mobile? I do it most days
Smugas 21st February 2020 at 13:57
'..class is permanent…'
++++++++++++++
Thanks for drawing that superbly marvellous letter to our attention.
Aren't we glad TRFC /King are utterly psychologically incapable of adopting such an approach, and even less capable grammatically of composing such a letter, in their PR/statement approaches!
Interesting article posted on CQN this afternoon. Hummel and Elite have made a statement regarding Rangers breach of contract and yet another court case for the Rangers to fend off…….never ending !! Also the host Paul67 saying that The rangers shouldnt get too excited about a possible 2 Champions league spots next season . I disagree with Paul67 on a few things Celtic but he is trust worthy and usually on the money. Worth a read
Looks like somebody’s been telling lies. ?
Hummel UK and The Elite Group issued a statement today noting they were rescinding their agreement with Rangers FC with immediate effect, “due to the club being in material breach of contract.” They add that they have commenced legal proceedings against the club.
The statement reads:
Original statement, where?
https://hummel.co.uk/about-hummel/press
EJ
https://hummel.co.uk/about-hummel/press
Big Pink 21st February 2020 at 15:24
Looks like somebody’s been telling lies. ? Hummel UK and The Elite Group issued a statement today noting they were rescinding their agreement with Rangers FC with immediate effect…
===========
So…
IF TRFC was to reach the SC Final – or even the EL Final – does that mean the team's players won't be wearing a personalised 'Cup Final 2020' strip to wear on the day?
It would be a wee shame.
roddybhoy 21st February 2020 at 15:23
'…Hummel and Elite have made a statement
Big Pink 21st February 2020 at 15:24
'..Looks like somebody’s been telling lies.Looks like somebody’s been telling lies."
______________________
"…..despite being given warranties and assurances by the Rangers board that the club was free to enter into their arrangement.."
Well, that clears Hummel of the charge I levelled against them of not doing due diligence !They ask, and are lied to!
King really is the limit, seeming to have lost all common sense and balance. Already 'cold shouldered' by the TOP , he allows his company to be caught out in lies in their dealings with another company and invites trouble on himself by then suing them for 'debts owed'!
Betrays a very, very sick mind , in my judgment, and his credibility in the business world must be zero.
What an absolute liability he has proven himself to be.
Big Pink 21st February 2020 at 15:33
EJ
https://hummel.co.uk/about-hummel/press
==============================
I don't see it there, only the announcement of the original agreement.
Looks like Hummel story has disappeared. Got it from two sources, and CQN also reporting it before us.
Odd
Big Pink 21st February 2020 at 16:07
Looks like Hummel story has disappeared. Got it from two sources, and CQN also reporting it before us.
Odd
============================
Did you actually see it on the Hummel site, even for a short time? If so, then the story must have originated from Hummel.
If it came from some other source, then I'd question its provenance, at least for now.
Tony
I can cut and paste thanks, it was finding the 20 20 Vision and copying the relevant bit I didnt have time to do on mobile.
Looks like we have been taken for mugs here. Hummel telephone line is down. There's no direct PR number, and they aint answering their tweets.
Was sent a link which was bogus, and I believed it. When I went to the Hummel website, first thing I saw was "Hummel Cancel agreement".
So we owe an apology to Rangers and to Hummel. First time for everything I suppose, but not a mistake I will ever make again. Perhaps it will emerge that Hummel will counter-sue Rangers. Not a leap to come to that conclusion, but given my distaste for the relentless kite-flying that goes on over Scottish Football issues, there is more than a bit of irony in my cock-up today.
Apologies to all of you guys too. You have reason to expect that SFM will be more circumspect. I let you down today.
easyJambo 21st February 2020 at 10:29
“If there was an easy way of searching the RTC archive I would do it.”
I naively mused a few days ago that with Rangers apparently in financial traction and Celtic in possession of a burgeoning war chest then perhaps the team from the East end of Glasgow might rescue their historic brand partners and thus ensure a brighter financial outlook.
Of course such a manoeuvre would undermine all manner of sporting integrity principles and would infringe football regulations designed to avoid such potential conflicts of interest.
Might this explain Lord Haughey’s vociferous defence of his character since even though his financial intervention would not have provided an immediate conflict (especially with Sir Walter fronting this ‘mythical’ bid), it might have muddied the waters of this festering rivalry in a manner that threatened to take the edge off the competition.
It just goes to show that even the most astute legal advice that Whyte could engage was liable to be found wanting in at least one significant area.
Big Pink
I don't think I would be in a hurry with an apology.
To T'Rangers? I think we've all got enough lies/honest mistakes in the bank.
To Hummel? Time will tell but if I could see problems hitching up with GASH then so should they.
Things are obviously fine.
Whenever I'm getting on fine with someone I always take them to Court and release a widely publicised Statement announcing I'm looking for a new pal.
Auldheid
Wasn't meant in a bad way mate, some phones are a pain to copy/paste, was going to suggest the galaxy note series as the pen works brilliantly, again, apologies ?
Dear o dear lads and lasses.
Surely you realised that was a hoax when it contained the classic, oft repeated error; that Hummel/Elite had entered into an agreement with "the club."
Yours sincerely
Mr N Doncaster
Looks like another football organisation is touting for a new sponsorship deal.
William Hill is terminating its sponsorship of the Scottish Cup at the end of this season. That means that the SFA will need a new sponsor, as will the SPFL after Ladbrokes announced that their sponsorship is also ending.
BigPink@16.44
Mibbees aye. Mibbees naw. Time will tell.
I found myself listening to Radio 4’s programme ‘Feedback’ this afternoon, already in a bit of a mood thinking about that idiotic response ‘watcher’ received from Mr Colin Tregear of the BBC.
Some high heid yin was being asked about the threat to the BBC through having to make huge cuts, and the Tory readiness to scrap the BBC altogether and so on, and she wittered on about the independence of the BBC and its balance and how much it is envied world-wide…..
And I promptly dashed off this email in a fit of bloody annoyance. Unconnectedly of course, but coincidentally, an expression I use has been used four or five times on Sportsound a few minutes ago!
to:feedback@bbc.co.uk
Fri, 21 Feb at 17:26
Dear feedback,
BBC Radio Scotland Sports department persists in propagating the myth that Glasgow Rangers football Club of 1872 was bought by Charles Green in 2012, and that the new club set up by Charles Green and newly admitted as a new club into Scottish Football in 2012 is the very identical Glasgow Rangers of 1872, which, of course, under the name RFC 2012plc is languishing in Liquidation.
The Rangers of 1872 went into Administration . It was not bought out of Administration but entered Liquidation. On account of its insolvency it lost its ‘share’ in the then Scottish premier League, and in consequence lost its entitlement to membership of the Scottish FA.
The SFA cobbled up the lie that the new club which they themselves admitted into football for the first time is the Rangers Football Club that was founded in 1872.
BBC Radio Scotland has a de facto ban on any open discussion of the lie, and has on occasion disciplined a presenter for an ‘incautious’ observation.
The most wittering nonsense comes from BBC Executive Complaints Department in defence of the Lie.
This experience of the readiness of the BBC to lie in a matter of Sport makes me wonder just what other lies they would support in matters of more vital import.
I am therefore inclining to the view that the BBC has outlived its usefulness as a bastion of truth.
The absurd nonsense that a football club that is currently in liquidation is somehow the same club as the club that created in 2012 is a straw too much to carry, on top of all the baggage about political bias and cover-ups of which the BBC is justifiably accused.
Yours in something of contempt for BBC Radio Scotland and its Controller and senior management for their broadcasting dishonesty and cowardice.
John Clark
Looks like Hummel and Elite have taken out legal proceedings today against Ibrox club for breach of contract.
Auldheid 21st February 2020 at 16:27
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Tony
I can cut and paste thanks,
………………
tony 21st February 2020 at 17:12
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Auldheid
Wasn’t meant in a bad way mate, some phones are a pain to copy/paste,
………….
Copy and paste inventor Larry Tesler dies aged 74
https://news.sky.com/story/copy-and-paste-inventor-larry-tesler-dies-aged-74-11938327
……………
Sometimes you can raise a smile even at the saddest of times.
John Clark, thank God for folk like you.
Not sure if the Hummel / Elite legal proceedings have been confirmed but 1 week ago the LBJ (Elite) Director tweeted that "All will become clear very soon" so I wouldn't be surprised if action will be taken . In fact I'd be more surprised if they weren't
https://twitter.com/UnferwoodMark/status/1228390588220833794
TimTim
Perhaps Paul Brennan knows something we don’t. I note he hasn’t recanted like we did, so he’s maybe confident it’s true.
Cluster One
Wasn’t meant in a bad way mate, some phones are a pain to copy/paste,
………….
Copy and paste inventor Larry Tesler dies aged 74 https://news.sky.com/story/copy-and-paste-inventor-larry-tesler-dies-aged-74-11938327
……………
Sometimes you can raise a smile even at the saddest of times.
========
It's reported that Mr.Tesler is going to be buried in California…
and in NYC…and in London…and in Paris…etc…
StevieBC
StevieBC
Copy and paste stevie, not coffin and place ?
Who said that email was quicker than snail mail?
I received an email at 2.01am this morning from Companies House, advising me that RFC (2012) P.L.C. (SC004276) was newly incorporated on 27 May 1899 (as "The Rangers Football Club Limited").
That must be a record for the late delivery of an email, approaching 121 years.
Previous company names
Name THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C.
Period 27 May 1899 – 31 Jul 2012
—————————————————————-
Always helpful for the hard of thinking to have Companies House state categorically that The Rangers Football Club PLC, born 1899, is now RFC 2012 PLC and in liquidation.
And that THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED, Company number SC425159 (and displayed as such on rangers.co.uk) was incorporated (born) on 29 May 2012.
Facts are chiels that winna ding,/An downa be disputed.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Tae think that Chuckles could have chosen any name for his new club. The Bear Naekit Wanderers. The Lacka Academicals. The Masonic Fiddlers. The High Court Harriers. The Cheating Chest Beaters, etc.
His final choice really lacked imagination, and originality IMO.
Hopefully Turkish Market Stalls Direct, will come up with a better name for Minty's Park.
easyJambo 22nd February 2020 at 09:11
'…I received an email at 2.01am this morning from Companies House….'
___________________________
As a matter of interest, eJ, yesterday I was trying to find the entry in the CH RFC 2012 pages relating to the Memorandum and Articles of Association.
It had gone! The issue of the certificate of Incorpoariofact of Incorporation (1 Jan 1900) was the first entry ( entered twice, in fact)…. The next recorded business was shown as being in 1976!
I assumed that there would maybe be point when really old data might be removed to save space or whatever, but was suspicious enough to fire off a wee message ( using the 'is there anything wrong with this page' link)
And , lo and behold, the full pdf 33 pages are back on the page in an entry dated 27 May 1899, with the Memorandum and Articles of Association.
What I had been fiddling about with was attempting to associate the memoranda and Articles of Association of SevcoScotland/TRFC and RIFC plc with Moses and the other young men of the Clyde who founded the RFC of 1872.
There is, of course, no such continuity link!
BigPink@21.22 yesterday
Just read PMGB’s latest. He’s on the same page as CQN re Hummel. Shirts vs Skins next season at Ibrox?
Corrupt official 22nd February 2020 at 11:04
'…His final choice really lacked imagination, and originality IMO. '
++++++++++++++++
Perhaps: but it signalled the intention to deceive the investing public into thinking that TRFC was the original RFC that had simply changed hands, and made it easier for the lying hacks in the SMSM /BBC pass off that deceit as the truth.
And I come back to the question? Why did the BBC business journalists not flag up that deceit: they of all people must have known that Green did not , could not have, bought the very club that was to be liquidated, because if he had been able to , Liquidation would not have happened!
And they would have known that on its change of status from a Limited company to a Public company no other entity was created: it was RFC plc that held the share in the SPL, and had the certificate of membership in the SFA, and lost both when it became insolvent.
Mine of 11.48 this morning:
‘Incorpoariofact’…… geez, that was a right Stanley Unwin-ism!
Sorry about that!
According to Tam, Maxwell is to speak on Sportsound about the Keating appeal after 2.00 pm
John Clark 22nd February 2020 at 11:48
The 1899 Memorandum of Association certainly shows the continuity of the committee run 1872/73 club through its incorporation into “The Rangers Football Club Limited”.
As you say, there is no corresponding record from 2012 that shows any disincorporation that allowed the football club to be separated from its incorporated form. It was only a basket of assets that was acquired by Charles Green.
JC and EJ
Your chat over the process by which Rangers became incorporated is exactly in line with the Rules and Constitution of the erstwhile SFL.
…and again, only association football clubs could be members of the SFL.
…and Sevco Scotland Ltd (as was) is not The Rangers Football Club PLC (now known as RFC 2012 PLC)
…also, and I hadn’t spotted this previously…
In July 2012 we were all amused/bemused/shocked at the SFA’s “conditional membership” that it said was necessary for Sevco’s match against Brechin to go ahead.
I remember having some discussion with Auldheid as I couldn’t see any SFA regulation that would have prevented the match going ahead.
At the time Sevco were already a member of the SFA by dint of its admittance/membership of the SFL.
The real problem was that at the time the SFA had two members with a claim to the name “Rangers”.
The real “Rangers” remained a Full and Registered member of the SFA until the 3rd August 2012.
The problem was that Sevco wanted SFA board approval to use the name of an existing member when it played it’s game against Brechin on the 29th July.
Bizarrely, the relevant SFA regulation relating to the name of its members comes under the heading of Ground Registration.
It seems that Rod McKenzie was highlighting this as far back as October 2011.
Many very interesting contributions on TRFC's birth/status over the past day or so. An awful lot of factual information to put to the BBC and Ofcom and contrast with the ill-informed comment from some of those quoted in the BBC response.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
A couple on momentous decisions today on the use or otherwise of VAR.
First the VAR in the Chelsea v Spurs game admitted thay got a decision wrong. How that happened I haven’t a clue.
Second the SFA has decided to reconvene the James Keatings tribunal.
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/scottish-fa-statement-james-keatings/?rid=13929
Obviously, the SFA monitors SFM for ideas…
the lesser spotted CEO Maxwell has indeed stepped in to have Keating’s red card set aside / reviewed.
The SFA applying common sense…?!
Good!
[And it COULD have the makings of a long overdue showdown with The Scottish Referees’ Association…]
(Edit)
Oops. What eJ said.
John Clark 22nd February 2020 at 12:06
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Corrupt official 22nd February 2020 at 11:04
‘…His final choice really lacked imagination, and originality IMO. ‘
…………………….
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1231254781919989765/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1231255171193352193/photo/1
While it is good to see the SFA finally admit a shambolic mistake in their disciplinary process, we are entitled to ask how many other baffling decisions were arrived at without following due process. As long as the secretive nature of the process with anonymous judges continues, it is fair to assume that personal prejudice may play a part in the decision making process.
easyJambo 22nd February 2020 at 14:55
'..the SFA has decided to reconvene the James Keatings tribunal. '
+++++++++++++++
What we don't know is whether the other two members of the Panel which made the decision actually acknowledge now that not all the evidence had been considered
If they have acknowledged that fact, the safest route would have been for all parties to have agreed that an approach should be made to the Courts asking that the decision be set aside, and the matter referred to a fresh Panel operating not as an appeal panel against the appeal Panel but as an appeal panel of first (and final) instance.
I'm sure such an approach by agreement would not have required any kind of extensive, expensive formal hearing: a Judge could simply accept a joint submission that a fundamental error was made, annul the appeal panel's decision, and refer the matter to freshly constituted panel.
If the other two members have not agreed that they erred, then an unhelpful precedent is being set, if the 'executive' can over-rule a 'judicial' finding in an appeal when , legally, it has no power to do so!
The SFA seem to create enormous problems for themselves. If they arrogate to themselves (as interested party in a disciplinary matter) the power to over-rule their own 'judicial panel' , who can have faith that they will not misuse their office if and when it may suit?
[I'm personally very happy for Keatings and ICT, I should add.]
John Clark 22nd February 2020 at 12:06
Corrupt official 22nd February 2020 at 11:04 '…His final choice really lacked imagination, and originality IMO. ' ++++++++++++++++ Perhaps: but it signalled the intention to deceive the investing public into thinking that TRFC was the original RFC that had simply changed hands, and made it easier for the lying hacks in the SMSM /BBC pass off that deceit as the truth. And I come back to the question? Why did the BBC business journalists not flag up that deceit: they of all people must have known that Green did not , could not have, bought the very club that was to be liquidated, because if he had been able to , Liquidation would not have happened! And they would have known that on its change of status from a Limited company to a Public company no other entity was created: it was RFC plc that held the share in the SPL, and had the certificate of membership in the SFA, and lost both when it became insolvent.
_____________________
No wonder the BBC continue to keep their ranks closed over the continuation lie. They stood back and stayed silent while Charles Green promoted his IPO as an investment in a previously deceased football club. Wouldn't look good, even with those with no interest in Scottish football's integrity, if they suddenly 'discovered' the truth now. It's possible, I suppose, that the BBC, as a whole, has taken a decision to continue with the lie, as seen in the reply to Watcher, in the hope that it all, one day, disappears.
If this is the case, no wonder they were so keen to shut up Michael Stewart. With Whyte's book about to be released the last thing they needed was one of their own pointing at one of the leading architects of the lie!
What I'm suggesting is that rather than just protecting the BBC's favourite Scottish football club, the BBC is now having to also protect itself from possible claims of misleading the public in the lead up to an IPO.
John Clark 22nd February 2020 at 12:06
Corrupt official 22nd February 2020 at 11:04 '
…His final choice really lacked imagination, and originality IMO. '
++++++++++++++++
Perhaps: but it signalled the intention to deceive the investing public into thinking that TRFC was the original RFC that had simply changed hands, and made it easier for the lying hacks in the SMSM /BBC pass off that deceit as the truth.
————————————————-
Indeed John, and I was being intentionally flippant as to the absurdity of the same club myth. However the fact remains that at the time of Sevco Scotland's debut v Brechin, no such organisation bearing the name "The Rangers Football Club", existed,….anywhere !, except in the imaginations of the deceivers.
Who would have thunk, that a wonky imagination was such a highly contagious inkborne disease?.
Frankly……It isn't !.
Charlie Chuckles had no need to purchase "The Club" from D & P, BDO, or wee Craigy……It was a, "gift", from the SFA. ….How they, (the SFA), came to be in possession of "The extinct Club", is anybody's guess.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jul/27/rangers-relaunched-brechin
CO
Just for the sake of being pedantic…
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/name-change-meeting/
Rangers retained its original name until 31st July 2012. It remained a member of the SPL and SFA until 3rd August.
Sevco's game (trading as the newco "Rangers FC") against Brechin was 29th July.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/19032245
Further to the latest SFA own goal ……
How many times previously and affecting which games/clubs/players have panel members not carried out their obligations?
Should all previous decisions now be reviewed for compliance with the protocol (not just those in which Panel member X has participated)?
…as I mentioned in my previous post, the “conditional” membership was a complete squirrel.
It provided cover for the SFA board to sanction Sevco’s use of another member’s name prior to the Brechin game.
Sevco were already a SFA (registered) member and did not require further membership approval before the game took place. It was enough that Sevco had applied for a transfer of Rangers full membership. There was no time limit for a response. If it had wished to do so, the SFA could have taken a year to consider that application.
However, without prior SFA board approval, Sevco could not have used the Rangers FC trading name for the Brechin game.
The illusion of continuity would have been shattered from the beginning.
There was too much to lose to allow that to happen….
I should add…
The 5WA was the document that contractually bound the signatories to the idea that "Rangers FC" could continue as the same Club – despite the demise of The Rangers Football Club PLC.
I do not believe that the signatories from the SPL, SFA and SFA had the legal authority to agree to the new construct without formal agreement from each of their members in duly authorised meetings. No such meetings took place.
Board approval would not have sufficed.
If I am right, the 5WA should be investigated fully as it appears to constitute an actual fraud.
Think TV money, IPOs, season ticket sales etc.
What were the financial consequences of the 'big lie'?
Who has truly been duped?
Sorry, while I'm on a roll…
I think BBC Scotland, in general, (with a few exceptions) played a straight bat to begin with.
Initially, there was no question that Sevco was anything but a new club. A spiritual successor to the old club; but technically, a brand new association football club.
The BBC Scotland hierarchy appeared to resist the call to take on the 'big lie' – but were overruled by their masters in London.
My sense is that it was the BBC Trustees(?) that were unduly influenced by the 'guardians' of Scottish Football ànd simply took the SFA and SPL at their word.
I strongly doubt that they had any understanding of the issues beyond what they were fed by those who had a vested interest in propagating the lie.
More fools them!
HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 18:44
I was going to suggest trying here until I saw the bit about Police Scotland . I wonder why .
https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/reporting-fraud-and-cyber-crime
As far as I am aware, these tribunals operate on a 'majority' basis: that is the three members vote & its verdict is a 3:0 or 2:1 either for or against. Unanimity is not required.
Is Maxwell indicating that the Keatings' panel was split 2:1 to uphold the booking & the member who claims that he was not au fait with all the evidence voted as part of the '2' not to change the outcome? If the panel's vote had been a unanimous 3:0 then we're in 'nothing to see' territory, because 2:1 is sufficient to carry the day.
Stranger & stranger: but it is the SFA, after all…
I agree with easyJambo and suggest that this should just be the start for the SFA. There have been strange decisions by the independent panel before so all should be investigated by an independent body to make sure that proper practice has been followed.
It would seem nobody reviewed any evidence, it was just dismissed as a matter of course and they all went down the pub. Not until it blew up did they actually look at the incident then came out with this gobbledeygook nonsense to attempt to save face. Now while that is quite disturbing , the alternative that they did review it and saw nothing untoward is even more disturbing. Can they never admit that a referee made a wrong decision , was the fact it was a decision that favoured a Rangers* team influence the decision . Of course now that they have shown that decisions can be reviewed when not all the evidence has been seen has opened another can of Lord Nimmo Smith Worms . Issue statement – realise mistake – return to bunker – close the blinds . All this on top of the Man City situation , the chickens are coming home to roost.
HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 18:44
'…If I am right, the 5WA should be investigated fully as it appears to constitute an actual fraud.'
++++++++++++++
The possibility clearly exists that there may have been two frauds, separate but necessarily connected:
one, a fraud involving the false attribution to a new football club of the sporting history, honours and titles of a club that had not earned them and never could add to them
two, a fraud involving deception of the Stock Market by the issue of a misleading IPO which implied to the investor that what was to be invested in was a 140 year old, wonderfully successful record breaking football club, and not a new club that had not kicked a ball as a football team!
I'm of the view that there are sufficient grounds for the FCA to open an enquiry into the RIFC plc launch and the IPO issued in respect of that, and for Police Scotland to examine the extent to which the SFA , by the 5-Way Agreement, was knowingly made in order to help the new club's false claim to be the Rangers of 1872 when it came to launching RIFC plc.
I'm not, of course, making any allegations at this point: merely suggesting that there are questions to be asked by agencies which have the power to really ask, rather than by 'internet bampots' such as I.
Questions to which the answers might make the Keatings' red card incident look like very small beer, indeed.
Jingso.Jimsie 22nd February 2020 at 19:27
'…If the panel's vote had been a unanimous 3:0 then we're in 'nothing to see' territory, '
++++++++++++++++
Jingo.Jmsie, I remember mentioning before ( while 'reporting' to SFM on the Court of Session EBT decision ) Lord Drummond Young making the remark that even private organisations , not just public bodies exercising statutory functions, can be subject to Judicial Review by the Courts.
This could be when ,say, a tennis club management team blatantly disregarded the rules of natural justice ( eg refusing to listen to explanations, or not specifying the 'charges', or ignoring important evidence, ) when arriving at even a unanimous decision to expel a member for some alleged breach of the club's rules.
So I suppose that that could apply in the Keatings case: if all three panel members were in agreement that the camera evidence did not show a barge/shove on Keatings, they would be so plainly wrong in a matter of fact that natural justice would require the decision to be reviewed.
The Courts very naturally would be reluctant to get involved in a dispute about the 'facts found'- but if the parties involved all agreed that an error had been made, there would be no difficulty for the Court in accepting the 'true' facts and remitting to another panel for determination on the 'true facts'.
Or is that fo'c'sle law??
Discuss in no more than 500 words.
I assume we have all noted the tortuous explanation for revisiting Keatingsgate is somewhat Brysonesque.
SFA, simply not fit for purpose.
HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 19:03
'..My sense is that it was the BBC Trustees..'
+++++++++++++++
Yes, HP, under the BBC's Royal Charter a number of the 'great and good' were constituted as 'the Trustees', who had , it seems, the final say as regards editorial control.
I have previously credited BBC Scotland for initially using the words 'new club', but then had to criticise them for meekly 'obeying' a ridiculous 'order' which they, had they had the guts to do so, could have challenged more strongly on the grounds that the order required them to lie, because the facts were that a football had gone into Liquidation, and a new club ( not a 'resuscitated ' ailing club) had been created .
When the Trustees were abolished, their ruling ought to have died with them, and I blame BBC Scotland for continuing with the so obviously challengeable affront to Truth. That smacks not of 'obedience to orders' but of willingness to comply with morally unacceptable orders.
Not quite in the same league of immorality of Nazi orders to kill innocent people, of course, but abuse of authority of any extent has to be condemned.
JC
I agree, however…
If there was one, who perpetrated the IPO fraud?
Each party to the 5WA provided a warranty that they were empowered to deliver on what was promised.
Sevco can, probably correctly, claim that it could only be the game’s governing bodies that could – through their respective rules, articles and constitutions define the true nature of an association football club. It is not for Sevco to interpret those organisations’ statutes.
Sevco has a document from all of the governing bodies that says, in effect, that it is the original Rangers FC. If it transpires that the warranties provided were false, the IPO investors are likely to have a claim against the SFA and SPL – not Sevco.
Remember DCK “threatening” the SFA with the 5WA when the licencing issue was raised? Remember how it has backed off?
It certainly was a strong card to play.
paddy malarkey 22nd February 2020 at 19:24
'…I was going to suggest trying here until I saw the bit about Police Scotland . I wonder why .'
++++++++++++++
I think , paddymalarkey, it's possibly because the Fraud Act 2006 doesn't apply in Scotland , except in part! Unified, central action over the general range of 'fraud' is maybe seen as actually impracticable. I don't reckon there's anything sinister….
Remember also that Sevco purchased the previous season’s prize money – from Rangers administrators.
£2.8m if I remember correctly.
It gave up its claim to the prize money as the price of being acknowledged as the original Rangers FC.
It paid the outstanding football debts on the same basis.
Again, if the SFA and SPL were to declare Sevco a new club, it would (rightly) claim for breach of contract.
The financial elements mean that the SFA and SPL are hopelessly conflicted on the matter.
HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 22:16
'…If there was one, who perpetrated the IPO fraud?'
+++++++++++++++++
The Board of a private company is collectively responsible for the truth and accuracy of the information of its IPO prospectus submitted to the FCA when it decides to go public.
If , in providing information that is misleading it had sought the complicity of another 'official' body in lying about the historical commercial standing and market status and value of what would be its principal source of revenue and future market value, then I would imagine that that other 'official body' might conceivably be deemed to be art and part of a conspiracy to defraud.
I speak in the abstract of course.
John Clark22nd February 2020 at 22:26
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paddy malarkey 22nd February 2020 at 19:24
‘…I was going to suggest trying here until I saw the bit about Police Scotland . I wonder why .’
I think , paddymalarkey, it’s possibly because the Fraud Act 2006 doesn’t apply in Scotland , except in part! Unified, central action over the general range of ‘fraud’ is maybe seen as actually impracticable. I don’t reckon there’s anything sinister….
…………………………….
I’m not sure how it would work; but I wonder – because the IPO was part of the PLC’s AIM listing – if the City of London Police would have some sort of jurisdiction.
Not sure…
HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 22:36
'…Again, if the SFA and SPL were to declare Sevco a new club, it would (rightly) claim for breach of contract.'
++++++++++
Not too sure about your (rightly), HP.
If the SFA and SPL officials had no legal authority [not having been authorised by their membership] to enter into such a contract , the contract would be null and void, and Sevco could go whistle in the wind.
Just as Dave King can go whistle in the wind as regards getting any money from his 'contract' with Hummel/Elite.
John Clark22nd February 2020 at 23:15
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HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 22:16
'…If there was one, who perpetrated the IPO fraud?'
+++++++++++++++++
The Board of a private company is collectively responsible for the truth and accuracy of the information of its IPO prospectus submitted to the FCA when it decides to go public.
If , in providing information that is misleading it had sought the complicity of another 'official' body in lying about the historical commercial standing and market status and value of what would be its principal source of revenue and future market value, then I would imagine that that other 'official body' might conceivably be deemed to be art and part of a conspiracy to defraud.
I speak in the abstract of course.
……………..
If it could be proven (beyond a reasonable doubt) that the plc knew, or that ought to have known, the representations made by the 3rd parties could not be relied upon, then yes, it could conceivably be caught up as an active party in a conspiracy to defraud.
It would probably take an incriminating email or letter from the SPL and/or SFA to put Sevco in the frame. Without that, my feeling is that Sevco probably have a defendable position. But, as ever, the devil will be in the detail.
Was absolutely astounded to hear on Sportsound that 2 of the 3 of the panel are NOT experienced in football ! I can’t think of any other industry where you we would use non experienced ‘experts’ to judge on what is effectively a technical issue. How did these people get selected and what was the criteria ? Just use 3 refs from different foreign FAs for Gods sake ! And there is still at least one person on the panel who still believes it was a dive !!
However the cynic in me thinks that the reason given was made up as this was the least embarrassing technicality they could come up with to allow the panel to reconvene
HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 23:16
'…because the IPO was part of the PLC’s AIM listing – if the City of London Police would have some sort of jurisdiction.'
+++++++++++++++
I would hope that that would be so.
The fact of this statement
"Please be advised that we no longer take reports for Police Scotland as it has decided to handle all reports of fraud and cyber-crime in its area. Wherever you may live, in Scotland or elsewhere, if the fraud or cyber-crime you are reporting has occurred in or from Scotland then you will need to report it to Police Scotland via the 101 telephone service. In an emergency always call 999."
surely relates only to the point at which a report is made. Police Scotland would no doubt pass on to London any report of a suspected crime of fraud that fell within the provisions of the Fraud Act that applied to Scotland.
There might be a wee bit of 'territoriality' dispute here, but the message seems clear enough: report to Police Scotland in the first instance, and they will deal with it if it falls within Scots law, and pass it on to London if it is a matter of UK law.
John Clark22nd February 2020 at 23:27
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HirsutePursuit 22nd February 2020 at 22:36
'…Again, if the SFA and SPL were to declare Sevco a new club, it would (rightly) claim for breach of contract.'
++++++++++
Not too sure about your (rightly), HP.
If the SFA and SPL officials had no legal authority [not having been authorised by their membership] to enter into such a contract , the contract would be null and void, and Sevco could go whistle in the wind.
Just as Dave King can go whistle in the wind as regards getting any money from his 'contract' with Hummel/Elite.
………………
It is a good point and it is possible that a judge might consider that the entire contract turns on that point alone.
However, the agreement is fairly complex and I believe that the signatories would have been fully authorised to agree to many of its other elements.
Either way,
If the entire agreement is deemed to be void
Sevco would have a claim on the outstanding prize money it had given up and seek to reclaim the Rangers football debts.
If the contract stands – but the SFA and SPL are forced to accept they had/have no power to treat Sevco as Rangers of old
Sevco can claim breach of contract and claim/reclaim the same amounts.
Menace 22nd February 2020 at 23:39
'…I can’t think of any other industry where you we would use non experienced ‘experts’ to judge on what is effectively a technical issue. '
++++++++++++
I rather got the impression that the film evidence had not been viewed, such was the nature of the appallingly badly inadequate statement!
God, it's difficult when a sports body cannot explain itself !
Was the film evidence viewed at all? and if so were the panel members told that they were being asked a simple question: was one player physically bundled, shoved, pushed, nudged , by another?
Nothing technical in that, even if the panellist was from Mars or from Rugby Union!
HirsutePursuit 23rd February 2020 at 00:02
'.Sevco would have a claim on the outstanding prize money it had given up and seek to reclaim the Rangers football debts.'
++++++++++
You've lost me here, HP..
What prize money did Sevco lose?
Sevco did not exist prior to 2012.
How could it have prize money due to it or give up?
It hadn't kicked a ball in any football competition.
JC
Sevco purchased the rights to the outstandingt Rangers SPL prize money (for season 2011/12) from Duff and Phelps.
It was sold as part of the basket of assets.
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/for-sevcos-5-5m-it-bought-all-rangers-players-fixed-assets-goodwill-and-2-67m-prize-money/
HirsutePursuit 23rd February 2020 at 00:24
'…It was sold as part of the basket of assets.'
++++++++++++
Of course! Silly me to think for a moment that you might have been suggesting that there was an element of 'continuity'!
Forgive me, please.
JC
Just one last thing for context…
The Italian FA allows, what it calls, the 'Sporting Title' of a bankrupt club to be sold to another club in the area.
The club taking on that 'Sporting Title' claims the historical sporting achievement of the recently deceased club.
It is all nonsense, of course, but it is, at least ,clearly written into that country's regulations and uefa accept (with the 3 year 'interuption of membership' ban) the idea that the original club continues in a new form.
In England, the transfer of the 'Golden Share' allows Newco's to take the name and league position of old clubs that are being liquidated. Leeds Utd are a notable example.
What I am saying is that there is clear precedent for what the SFA and SPL were trying to achieve with Rangers and Sevco. Their problem was that there were/are no competent regulations in this country that could make it happen.
They just made it up as they went along and hoped no-one would notice.
From the CVA proposal document (the SPL monies are Sevco's to use)
5.10 The Excluded Assets will be excluded from the CVA, as they are required to be utilised by the Company for the purpose of continued trading of the Company.
5.11 For the avoidance of doubt, the proceeds of all sums due from the SPL together with any broadcasting monies payable to the Company will be payable to the Company but for the benefit of Sevco (in the event that this Proposal is approved and the Loan drawn down) and shall be Excluded Assets.
From draft 6 of the 5WA (the price of Sevco's continuity with RFC)
2.3.2 RFC, Sevco and Rangers FC irrevocably renounce, waive, release and discharge any right and/or entitlement to any unpaid Fees and any other sums due or to become due howsoever arising, including without prejudice to the foregoing generality, in respect of or related to season 2011/12 and earlier seasons and whether under and in terms of the SPL Articles and/or SPL Rules or otherwise, by the SPL to RFC, Sevco and/or Rangers FC and hereby agree that the SPL shall retain all such Fees and other sums due to use and apply as the SPL shall in its sole discretion think fit.
I first heard the excitement of the “Breaking News” with the SFA statement read out loud at the end of the Off the Ball show yesterday.”
I was in the car with Mrs Finloch LLB and she listened too.
We both said at the end “Who wrote that”?
A badly written piece of quasi legalistic trying to tiptoe round a constitutional mess in response to rightful indignation on an unnecessary own goal.
And in the poece three names are listed to show solidarity at the wonderful institution that controls our game, viz meesrs Petrie, Mulrainey and Maxwell.
Mrs Finloch said something like “Whoever wrote that didn’t want it to be understood by normal fans”.
So where are we.
Keatings and ICT have to go through the nonsense of another panel rather than the SFA just throwing out the second caution which John Robertson eloquently stated on Friday night had been consigned to the dustbin by 1.4 million people.
So not a decision.
A decision that someone else can make a decision.
The SFA had already leaked out the original panel was a split 2-1 vote.
They now have also leaked through the usual sources that only 1 of the three on the panel was a Football person.
This is nonsense and misleading.
We are all football people and I can guarantee that Mr Maxwell didn’t just pick two random punters from the phonebook.
But fair play at least they have rescinded the nonsensical outcome of the panel and this is a small positive in a week where Henry McLeish rightly and in a statesmanlike fashion branded the whole SFA management (and by implication SPFL too) as not fit for purpose.
Good luck James Keatings.
I hope you make the final.
Good luck to ICT and Raith Rovers for the final at McDiarmid Park on Saturday 28th March kick off 4.10pm.
(Although I’ll be there and hope they will not be “Dancing in the streets of Raith afterwards)
Henry McLeish is right.
Our governance is really not fit for purpose.
If you haven’t read what The SFA put out its copied below courtesy of the nice people at the Daily Record with a photo of the incident.
……………………………………………….
………………………………………………..
The Scottish FA’s Chief Executive, Ian Maxwell, has received notification that the tribunal convened to hear the Claim for Wrongful Caution raised by Inverness Caledonian Thistle on behalf of James Keatings failed to implement its duties as per the Judicial Panel Protocol.
“Specifically, one of the panel members has advised that, despite raising no concerns throughout the process, they did not undertake their obligations with respect to the consideration of all the available evidence.
(Image: SNS Group)
“While the Fast Track Claims process is by definition an appeal, and therefore not open to further consideration, none the less the Chief Executive and Presidential team, Rod Petrie and Mike Mulraney, are unanimous that the tribunal outcome cannot be considered competent in light of the disclosure from the panel member and that the input from that panel member must be withdrawn.
“With that in mind, and only in extremis based on the information provided by the panel member, the determination cannot be considered valid. Therefore, the Judicial Panel Secretary has been instructed to convene a new tribunal and a fresh date will be set in due course.
READ MORE
“The initial outcome is rendered invalid by the acknowledgement of a panel member of their failure to dispose of their duties in respect of section 13.13.4 of the Judicial Panel Protocol and, in particular, the following paragraph:
“The Determination of the Claim shall be made by the Fast Track Tribunal by examining and deliberating upon: (ii) all of the evidence and submissions delivered by the Claimant in support of the Notice of Claim.
“The Scottish FA upholds the independence of the Judicial Panel Protocol but cannot in this instance consider the tribunal verdict competent, based on the admitted failure of a panel member to adhere to the process as outlined.
“The panel member in question has subsequently been withdrawn from the pool of potential panel members for all future tribunals.”
From the DR today;
"OPINION SFA have surpassed themselves with their incompetence and Ian Maxwell's promises haven't materialised – Gordon Parks
…
I genuinely believe SFA chief executive Ian Maxwell to be a talented and forward-thinking administrator. We’ve been friends for years…
President Rod Petrie is an unpleasant presence hovering above Maxwell and, in truth, pulling far too many strings for someone whose [sic] promotion should have been vetoed and this vanity role expunged from the SFA committee structure…"
===============
Well, well, well.
The worm has turned?
Looks like Maxwell is manoeuvring to ditch Petrie.
…and who is providing Maxwell with the required support to go against the SFA President…?
Interesting.
easyJambo 23rd February 2020 at 02:01 From the CVA proposal document (the SPL monies are Sevco's to use) 5.10 The Excluded Assets will be excluded from the CVA, as they are required to be utilised by the Company for the purpose of continued trading of the Company. 5.11 For the avoidance of doubt, the proceeds of all sums due from the SPL together with any broadcasting monies payable to the Company will be payable to the Company but for the benefit of Sevco (in the event that this Proposal is approved and the Loan drawn down) and shall be Excluded Assets.
From draft 6 of the 5WA (the price of Sevco's continuity with RFC) 2.3.2 RFC, Sevco and Rangers FC irrevocably renounce, waive, release and discharge any right and/or entitlement to any unpaid Fees and any other sums due or to become due howsoever arising, including without prejudice to the foregoing generality, in respect of or related to season 2011/12 and earlier seasons and whether under and in terms of the SPL Articles and/or SPL Rules or otherwise, by the SPL to RFC, Sevco and/or Rangers FC and hereby agree that the SPL shall retain all such Fees and other sums due to use and apply as the SPL shall in its sole discretion think fit.
—————————-
I may be wrong, and, of course, this is only an excerpt from the full CVA, but as the CVA was rejected then surely anything written within in it is of absolutely no consequence! In fact, the wording of it seems to make it clear that the fees would go to the Company for the purpose of continued trading of the Company in the event that the CVA was agreed.
It does seem strange to me that with the CVA having failed, that monies earned by an insolvent company during its lifetime should somehow be 'sold' at no apparent cost (how do you 'sell' the rights to £2.8m for anything other than £2,8m? Why not just drop the selling price of the company assets by that amount? I suppose, all part of the eyewash to make the selling price of the assets appear more realistic. And also, I reckon, to add gloss to the big lie by giving the appearance that the prize money followed the 'Club', and not the 'Company' – into liquidation.).
Anyway, regardless of the OCNC question, the CVA makes it extremely clear that the monies that were earned on the football field, by the Club, were owed to/owned by the Company. We all know why that should be.
that sfa statement stinks,my problem with it is
1.we don't know panel members
2.how do we really know 1 has been removed
3.have they caved in to people power and just pretend to remove one of the brethern
no one has to answer any of this as it's just things i thought of this morning,need a coffee 🙂
At the very least, the other panel member who voted against the appeal should have resigned as soon as it became clear he/she had hugely messed up. Failing that, that person should be sacked too.
The recent shambles at the SFA only strengthens the view that they are completely unfit for purpose. High time for a full review by someone like Henry McLeish on the understanding that his findings will be fully implemented.
Allyjambo 23rd February 2020 at 10:02
Anyway, regardless of the OCNC question, the CVA makes it extremely clear that the monies that were earned on the football field, by the Club, were owed to/owned by the Company. We all know why that should be.
============================
Your observation is correct of course. Following the failure to achieve a CVA, the SPL cash due to the club should have gone into the RFC plc (Oldco) coffers for the benefit of the creditors.
As the 5WA shows, the construct that was agreed to create the illusion of continuity was dependent on the Oldco's creditors losing out of the £2.8m to the benefit of the SPL.
It was indeed the price paid, not by Sevco, but by the Oldco's creditors to keep a club called Rangers in the SFL.
Sevco also paid its own price for the continuity construct by being required to pay off the Oldco's football creditors.
As far as D&P was concerned, the continuity construct of the 5WA allowed them to forego the £2.8m in SPL cash in return for switching a number of football creditor claims of around £3m from the Oldco to Sevco. That arrangement was not in the best interests of the rest of the Oldco's creditors as the £2.8m would have boosted the dividend payable to all creditors.
Finloch @ 08.16 23 Feb
Re : SFA Statement on ICT's appeal
I'm with Mrs Finloch ! I have read Maxwell's statement 3/4 times & I still don't understand it – it raises more questions than answers & only underlines the mediocrity/duplicity of the administration .
Following the failure to save the old club via a CVA, the exact terms of the asset sale were meant to be kept confidential.
It's only through a reading of the 5WA and the liquidators reports that we became aware that Duff and Phelps had passed on the ultimate right to the outstanding prize money to Sevco.
As EJ has pointed out this arrangement benefited the football creditors – who were paid 100% of what they were owed. Sevco paid these in full.
The remaining creditors got nothing from that £2.67m prize money.
tony 23rd February 2020 at 10:09
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that sfa statement stinks,my problem with it is
1.we don’t know panel members
2.how do we really know 1 has been removed
3.have they caved in to people power and just pretend to remove one of the brethern
no one has to answer any of this as it’s just things i thought of this morning,need a coffee ?
…………………..
“Who are these people” someone once said, but he already knew.
You gotta laugh ( or you would cry ) At the Lawyer speak of the SFA regarding their latest statement. If you did nt know what the "keatings" case was all about you would presume their statement was referring to a very complex issue .
You could show that video to 3 Primary school kids who play for their school team and 30 seconds later the 3 of them would agree it was never a booking, thats how simple this case is . . SFA Never in a million years fit for purpose
“EXCLUSIVE
I know lots of Liverpool fans want me back as boss one day… but the owners have to think I’m good enough first’:
Steven Gerrard on the possibility of an Anfield return, life at Rangers and Jordan Henderson lifting the title
Steven Gerrard has spoken exclusively to former team-mate Danny Murphy
The Liverpool legend says Gerard Houllier revolutionised standards at Liverpool
The former England captain wants to be fully prepared before returning as boss
Gerrard admitted he would like to have a managerial rivalry with Frank Lampard
By DANNY MURPHY FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY…”
======
A current club manager, (nevermind an Ibrox manager), talking about managing another club…?
It’s just not done, is it?
It’s poor form and highly disrespectful to both his employers and to the club’s fans.
[Doesn’t matter either that he’s talking moonbeams about managing LFC.]
…unless Gerrard doesn’t give a monkey’s anymore about what people will think about him voicing his managerial aspirations – and via the English media…?
On Keatinggate.
Wouldn't it have made a great deal of sense if, after receiving what they must have known was a ridiculous verdict, the Hampden bods had just passed it back to the tribunal and said, 'think again, lads', before making the decision public? By 'think again, lads' I mean 'explain yourselves, you fee thieves!'
Stevie BC,
I'd imagine far from being seen as disrespectful to his employers, in the topsy turvy world of TRFC, that article will most likely have been published with the board's blessing. The supporters will love it, too, as no one is saying similar things about Neil Lennon.
Cluster One
Exactly what I thought of
It's all coming to a head for Rangers* this week . Wednesday sees the return leg in Braga and then it's off to Tynecastle for the Scottish Cup fixture . After today's results which saw Celtic stretch their lead by another 2 pts (and 2 goals) Gerrard needs to pull a rabbit out the hat to stop a total implosion. Hearts will smell blood and should have enough confidence after already beating them at home just recently.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2866824-steven-gerrard-signs-contract-extension-at-rangers-until-2024
The cost of sacking Gerrard and his 8 member backroom staff would be frightening , however keeping hold of him if he ends up trophyless this season may be even worse. There is no cash to strengthen and his £120m squad would be lucky to raise 20m with their current form . Gerrard therefore has a dilemma , does he walk , does he get resigned , or does he stay and risk reputational damage. Where would Rangers* go from there? Would the fans turn up if Grahame Murty was installed ? (his stats are actually better than Gerrard and Pedro) P. MacG's recent blog has hinted at some tricky terms and conditions attached to King's latest loan which wouldn't be a surprise but it doesn't bode well for the future . If King is departing then he will want his pound of flesh first . The only thing I see of any value is the stadium and assuming they have now found the deeds then it wouldn't surpise me to see King with some kind of claim to it . Personally I can see him going into administration and flogging the Whyte elephant to Tesco before heading for Costa Rica. A week can be a long time in politics it can be an eternity in football. Tune in this time next week for the next instalment of the Banter Years.
Timtim, yes it is getting more interesting.
I take it that the external auditors hadn’t actually caught ‘Rangersitis’ during their audit – so are not compelled to tell fibs on a regular basis – like “you need £10M just to see out this season”.
It has been awfully quiet on that front: no money making, transfers out, no new shares issue, no new sugar daddy donating to the Ibrox coffers…
I suppose Lambogate and Translationgate – whilst hugely embarrassing/entertaining – did at least distract from questions about Ibrox finances – for a while.
All the indications are ominous for RIFC/TRFC currently.
But, as others have mentioned before, this Ibrox mob – somehow – always seems to be able to keep kicking that battered, old can along the road just that little bit more – yet again.
However…
The RIFC interims for the 6 months period up to 31st December were released last year on Monday, 25th February 2019.
If they are consistent, I would expect the Interims to be released tomorrow/Monday 24th.
Remembering that these are UNAUDITED numbers, King has some leeway to draft up any old rubbish.
But this year, he maybe struggling to ‘conjure up a profit number’ to keep the headlines positive?
Regardless: mibbees these Interims could be the event which triggers a domino effect at Ibrox…?
[I know.]
One bonus for the coming week is the interim accounts are due out , unfortunately they are unaudited and will give King some scope to wax lyrical . If he has decided it’s the end of the road then I doubt he will bother producing any . I would say it all hinges on the result in Portugal as that is the last opportunity to make reasonable money and get players exposure to the Summer transfer window.
Just read Stevie BC post , will be an interesting week.
RIFC posted an overall profit for the corresponding period last season of £5.2m (operating profit £6.7m before amortisation or £3.8m afterwards). Those are the best numbers to use for comparison with the first half of this season.
The number of competitive home and neutral venue games played this season is three down on last year, but they played additional friendlies to bridge the gap. Europa League income will be up on last year due to better results and qualification for the knock out stages.
I would expect something similar in terms of their stated profits this time round. If its less then it's indicative of their cost base going up significantly (mainly wages and player registrations)
They will lose money over the 2nd half of the season. How much is anyone's guess.
Will these interims include the 3m for Helander and the 7m for Kent ? If so it may just tip the scales to negative .
Timtim 23rd February 2020 at 21:15
Will these interims include the 3m for Helander and the 7m for Kent ? If so it may just tip the scales to negative .
===========================
They should include any up front payments for the pair, plus any other installments due on prior transfers. Those will be offset to some extent by receipts from any corresponding outgoing transfers.
easyJambo 23rd February 2020 at 11:37
‘…It was indeed the price paid, not by Sevco, but by the Oldco’s creditors to keep a club called Rangers in the SFL.’
%%%%%%%%%%%%%
D&P as Administrators were, of course, present at the 5-Way Agreement meeting(s). They must have agreed the signing over to the SPL/SFL of the circa £2.8M ,on foot of the ‘expected'(?) CVA.
But when the CVA did not happen, why did they not rescind that offer, so that the pot they could hand over to BDO, the Liquidators, would be greater?
I wonder whether this was the issue which caused Lord Hodge to delay discharging D&P until he had the actions of D&P investigated by their ‘trade’ Association.
There may be a wee story in there among the bigger stories of lies and iniquities behind the secret Agreement and the Non-disclosure commitment attaching to that agreement
JC
BDO are still looking at D&P's conduct during the administration period.
https://www.bdo.co.uk/getmedia/a0db76ac-535d-461c-bd2b-5de4d18467d3/RFC-2012-Plc-annual-progress-report-to-30-October-2019.pdf.aspx
There is a definite sense of dèja vu this week which will increase as we approach Wednesday. Everything from here on in depends on *Rangers performance in Europe. The manger’s credibility, the current finances and the season ticket sales for 2020/21. Exit from the EL will also have a knock on effect on morale for the cup tie at Tynecastle.
Ive also noted a bit of chat on Twitter concerning the trip to Dubai. Has there been an Emiratigate story which is yet to break?
AvatarJohn Clark 23rd February 2020 at 22:25 This easyJambo 23rd February 2020 at 11:37 ‘…It was indeed the price paid, not by Sevco, but by the Oldco’s creditors to keep a club called Rangers in the SFL.’ %%%%%%%%%%%%% D&P as Administrators were, of course, present at the 5-Way Agreement meeting(s). They must have agreed the signing over to the SPL/SFL of the circa £2.8M ,on foot of the ‘expected'(?) CVA. But when the CVA did not happen, why did they not rescind that offer, so that the pot they could hand over to BDO, the Liquidators, would be greater? I wonder whether this was the issue which caused Lord Hodge to delay discharging D&P until he had the actions of D&P investigated by their ‘trade’ Association. There may be a wee story in there among the bigger stories of lies and iniquities behind the secret Agreement and the Non-disclosure commitment attaching to that agreement
________________
John, as ever, my memory is none too reliable, but I am certain that as one of the many ludicrous events surrounding the whole 5Way Agreement farce, D&P gave Charles Green the authority to negotiate with the football authorities on behalf of RFC (IL), including the right to sign off on any agreement reached. I seem to have a distinct memory of the discussions on RTC and elsewhere about Green's dual role of representing two separate entities in this way.
If I am correct, then it is unlikely that D&P were a party to the 5WA, giving themselves the comfort blanket of plausible deniability. Whether they had a legal right to give Green this power may well be up for question, though, as Green's own best interests must surely have clashed with those of the old club's creditors.
D&P doing a Regan* to ensure their paw prints weren't on something so heinous it had to be kept secret, perhaps?
*He'd shot off on holiday a few hours before the agreement was signed.
easy 23rd February 2020 at 21:36
===========================
They should include any up front payments for the pair, plus any other installments due on prior transfers. Those will be offset to some extent by receipts from any corresponding outgoing transfers.
===========================
The accounts only reflect the write down in value of the player transfer fees over the life of the contracts. It won’t highlight the cash flow crunch that the last 2 years of player purchases has brought on.
In the 18/19 accounts for last June, Rangers had £9.6 million payable by 30th June 2020 for player purchases. They only had £0.4 million receivable for players sold. In the notes to the accounts, they disclosed that they had added a further £11.5 million in player purchases (Kent, Helander, Edmundson). We don’t know when that is payable, but on an average contract of 4 years, say another £3 million for the new comers. Than means they needed to find about £12 million in the current year to fund player purchases alone.
I have no idea how much they may already have paid back, but I would expect that payment schedules would be negotiated around season ticket cash, so probably the bulk of that £12 million needs to be found in the next 4 months.
Mr Ashley may want to “ring fence” his potential claim.
As always, in business, cash is King.
Ex Ludo 23rd February 2020 at 23:28
People keep mentioning a potential drop in season ticket sales but given the last few seasons I can’t see it myself, regardless of what happens this week or the next.
With Real Rangers men still in the Blue Room the fans will remain loyal and pay their cash. Even more so next year as the aim will be to stop Celtic gaining 10IAR. Regardless of what T’Rangers put out on the pitch their fans will want to play a part in trying to stop Celtic’s aim for a record breaking season.
The club from Ibrox will have benefited from additional gate receipts from domestic and euro cup runs for additional income has been brought in this season. However the issue is, as always, are they spending more than they bring in and how long can the friendly loans last.
People seem to keep hoping Ashley will sink the ship but I think he will be happy to string them along and keep dripping them dry as they have become nothing more than his play thing.
If they can survive until his contractual grip on the club ends then they can perhaps up their income from merchandising etc.
Until then they are paying handsome sums to the likes of Defoe who hasn’t kicked a ball in anger since injury. Morelos isn’t performing in the big games and is a liability in terms of spending a good deal of time suspended or in the huff. His sell on value, as with others, is questionable.
I suspect they may still be on the financial tightrope for a bit longer.
Thinking ahead to next season…
On the face of it: it would seem more than likely, that with the financial constraints severely restricting an Ibrox club title challenge next season,
CFC could be making moves to have a ‘VAR-lite’ system in place for next season.
As we know, other less affluent Euro leagues have a cheaper version of VAR – including Portugal and even Cyprus, [whose FA is planning to introduce VAR from next season].
A significant risk, IMO, to both CFC – and to the integrity of the SPL
– is unacceptably poor refereeing standards.
In the absence of a serious title challenge next season – from Ibrox, or Aberdeen, or Edinburgh – would there be a statistically abnormal abundance of ‘honest officiating mistakes’ and which also generated a statistically abnormal, negative impact to one SPL club in particular?
Everybody has criticisms of VAR, but the bottom line is, it’s here to stay.
So, why wait?
CFC could/should already be lobbying to have VAR from next season – to try to ensure that the 20/21 title is fairly decided on an – arguably – significantly more level playing field.
IMO.
HirsutePursuit 23rd February 2020 at 23:15
‘…BDO are still looking at D&P’s conduct during the administration period.’
%%%%%%%%%%
Thanks for that, HP. I can’t remember now whether I had got round to reading the BDO December 2019 update! If I looked at it at all I must not have noticed the reference to legal action v the Administrators.
It gives some comfort to know that we (or I) are not being ridiculously fanciful in some of our speculations!
I would hope that the FCA would at least signal that they had looked or are looking seriously at their role in authorising the RIFC plc IPO. My assessment may be wildly incorrect and everything might indeed be absolutely all square and the FCA may have acted properly and can show why there was nothing misleading in the IPO.
I would be happy to believe them, if their explanation was better based than BBC Complaints’ response to ‘watcher’ about same club!
(well, when I say ‘happy’….)
StevieBC 24th February 2020 at 10:54
"…Until then they are paying handsome sums to the likes of Defoe who hasn’t kicked a ball in anger since injury…."
****************
I have wondered occasionally , StevieBC, about the nature of footballers' contracts in relation to payment of salary when injured/unfit to play.
Do clubs and/or players cover themselves with Insurance against long-term injury?
Or are salaries based on £x grand a week if you play, £x-y when you don't play because of sickness/injury, and £x-z if you don't play because you're dropped ?
And while I'm on, are players on salary during the close season?
Anyone with first-hand knowledge?
JC
I have wondered if the FCA's reluctance to respond to you in positive terms is related to BDO's current investigation.
Perhaps your points are too close to the heart of the matter and a full and honest response would put that investigation at risk?
As someone said…
"It'll aw come oot in the wash."
HirsutePursuit 24th February 2020 at 12:17
'…I have wondered if the FCA's reluctance to respond to you in positive terms is related to BDO's current investigation.'
**************
Possibly, HP.
But they seem to be as inept at PR as anyone at Ibrox!
They pissed me off by 'losing' my original posted letters, then losing my emailed copies. As a result of that, I sent a copy of everything to a financial journalist at the FT who had just written critically about the FCA's delays in dealing with correspondence !
As it happens, the journalist in question has not (as far as I know) made anything of it. But she might have done, and no public agency wants any kind of damaging press.
The bods in the FCA correspondence unit should be aware that a cardinal rule in dealing with an individual member of the public is not to delay and bugger about, but to acknowledge and get a reply out as soon as possible, so as to minimise the risk of the 'complainer' getting hacked off and going to his MP or the Press or, nowadays, going on to social media to express his anger/frustration/pissed-offness.
I know from personal experience in the public service what a pain in the ar.e it is to get an MP's letter not because someone down the line made a mistake, but because they ignored or tried to bury the mistake when the person affected tried to have the mistake rectified.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtics-sky-sports-complaint-thrown-21566443
tony 24th February 2020 at 14:53
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtics-sky-sports-complaint-thrown-21566443
=============================
Headline:
Celtic's Sky Sports complaint thrown out as Ofcom make decision over Alfredo Morelos mistranslation
From the article:
"As the section of the interview with the incorrect translation was shown only on Sky’s website and on-demand platforms and not on its broadcast television channel, we have no grounds to pursue this matter under the Broadcasting Code."
————————————————
So "complaint thrown out" is actually OFCOM stating that they have no powers to investigate the matter, as the relevant part of the interview was not broadcast on TV.
Wottpi@09.29
JohnJames(I think) seemed to be suggesting that Stevie Gerrard was brought in with a view to sell season tickets. If the wheels do come off and the manager walks before the end of the season then that might affect sales.
Ex Ludo 24th February 2020 at 15:38
Wottpi@09.29 JohnJames(I think) seemed to be suggesting that Stevie Gerrard was brought in with a view to sell season tickets. If the wheels do come off and the manager walks before the end of the season then that might affect sales.
================
And that's another dilemma TRFC has WRT the eventual replacement of the rookie manager.
Who can they bring in as manager who could give Ibrox a similar uplift, buzz, ST sales, higher media profile, access to EPL loanees, etc. that Gerrard brought ?
A sensible, experienced, 'safe pair of hands' – and much cheaper – managerial option is just not going to cut it.
Makes sense for Gerrard to bide his time and try to win the SC – and then choose to swiftly 'do walking away' from Ibrox as a 'winning' manager…
easyJambo 24th February 2020 at 15:34
‘…So “complaint thrown out” is actually OFCOM stating that they have no powers to investigate the matter,’
That’s the DR for you, eJ.
They couldn’t tell the truth to save their rotten lives!
[ One would have thought that any lawyer could have found out in minutes whether OFCOM’s powers included the kind of complaint in question? Does nobody in football think with their heads, and have courses of action thoroughly thought out?]
John Clark 24th February 2020 at 16:58 easyJambo 24th February 2020 at 15:34 ‘…So “complaint thrown out” is actually OFCOM stating that they have no powers to investigate the matter,’ That’s the DR for you, eJ. They couldn’t tell the truth to save their rotten lives! [ One would have thought that any lawyer could have found out in minutes whether OFCOM’s powers included the kind of complaint in question? Does nobody in football think with their heads, and have courses of action thoroughly thought out?]
________________________
I think it's more of a concern that it would appear that dodgy media types have been handed a platform where they are free to say whatever they like about people and institutions without fear of repercussions from any watchdog.
Fair dos: as if to demonstrate the point I was making at 14.27 today, this appeared in my inbox
"<bbc_complaints_website@contact.bbc.co.uk>
To:[me]
24 Feb at 17:05
We are contacting you to apologise that we’ve not been able to reply to your complaint within the time period we aim for. Although we manage this for most complaints, we regret it’s not been possible so far because we are dealing with a higher than normal volume of cases.
If you wish to refer this delay and the substance of your complaint to the BBC’s regulator Ofcom, you can do so online at https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/how-to-report-a-complaint/bbc-tv-channel-radio-station-bbciplayer or by post to: Ofcom, Riverside House, 2a Southwark Bridge Road, London SE1 9HA. Please include for Ofcom your latest correspondence from and to the BBC and any BBC case reference numbers which you have been given. …."
That kind of (even automated) response works wonders.
I won't mind waiting another week, or two, or perhaps even longer (if they give me an update to let me know that my complaint will be dealt with and not ignored.
Ex Ludo 24th February 2020 at 15:38
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Wottpi@09.29
JohnJames(I think) seemed to be suggesting that Stevie Gerrard was brought in with a view to sell season tickets.
……………….
I Believe everyone and their granny knew that.
Hirsute Pursuit
John Clark
Ally Jambo
Easy Jambo
I’ve been following the discussion on the 5 Way Agreement and what it provided and what I’d like a view on is why Celtic have denied involvement?
What is thought to be the final version of the 5 Way is at:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aOnarhY1MTttAydwDALGMJSQeZJDCCTr/view?usp=sharing
(*)
and accompanying side letter version is at:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/129GG_Tn8-YsB2VTNaOF5CrS5FHOpjO6E/view?usp=sharing
To that mix we can now add the e mail from Doncaster to the SPL Board including Eric Riley of Celtic and direct to Peter Lawwell, which was published at
https://sentinelcelts.com/2020/01/25/that-5wa-e-mail-a-silver-bullet-or-a-smoking-gun/
Based on these what have Celtic got to hide?
A supplementary question is had the LNS Commission came up with a different answer resulting in the removal of ebt won titles as a result of all evidence of ebts, side letters and dishonesty been presented, would it really matter if the titles that the 5 Way allowed under the bargaining that the 5 Way involved, were recognised as part of a disreputable part of RFC/TRFC history and/or removed from the history of both?
In short is the problem not so much that the SFA treat TRFC as same club as RFC as that the SFA refuse to revisit the terms of reference of the Commission that the SPL were so keen to set up according to the Doncaster e mail in 2012 and after the Supreme Court deemed the use of ebts unlawful in 2017 as well as also ignoring the evidence of unlawful DOS ebts provided to the SPFL Board including Eric Riley in 2014?
Did the terms of the 5 Way in effect provide a pardon to “Rangers” for the crimes against Scottish football if Sevco paid for it and in accepting the 5 Way Agreement by not questioning it, were Celtic a part of that pardon or did Celtic expect a just outcome from LNS, in which case why did they they via Eric Riley not use the non disclosure of DOS EBT HMRC correspondence in 2014 from SFM to demand LNS be revisited?
(*) HP to note H in the 5 Way Recital is wrong imo.
Sevco were a Registered SFA Member on joining the SFL. They had to apply for Associate SFA membership as any new club would but instead applied for Full SFA Membership under the 5 Way bargaining process thus avoiding the normal application route for a new club which would have made any presentation of them as the same club impossible.
This required SFA to deploy the discretionary powers of Article 14 of SFA rules Prohibiting Transfer of Full SFA Membership. A transfer UEFA FFP did not recognise as conferring legal continuity under Article 12 of UEFA FFP designed to protect the integrity of UEFA competitions that the SFA put at risk domestically in the 5 Way.
UEFA might recognise sporting continuity where the domestic association rules allow it but as mentioned earlier that sporting continuity surely depends on titles etc being won by compliance with sporting rules that LNS deemed were not broken when the world and their wean knows that they were and LNS was misled and subsequently not corrected by Celtic’s representative on the SPL Board in 2014, who was also absent when that Board decided to accept LNS Decision in 2013 in spite of reservations of some members.
easyJambo 24th February 2020 at 15.34
"As the section of the interview with the incorrect translation was shown only on Sky’s website and on-demand platforms and not on its broadcast television channel, we have no grounds to pursue this matter under the Broadcasting Code."
I don't subscribe to Sky on any platform so shouldn't have seen it , but did see the offending interview online and in printed media . Obviously Sky can put all sorts of lies and confections on its website and on demand platforms with impunity , safe in the knowledge that there will be no reckoning should they be published/publicised elsewhere . And if it's not OFCOM's remit , whose is it ?
paddy malarkey 24th February 2020 at 20:40
'…safe in the knowledge that there will be no reckoning should they be published/publicised elsewhere . And if it's not OFCOM's remit , whose is it ?'
%%%%%%%%%%%
I reckon the ordinary laws of the land relating to (in Scotland) defamation, and in England ,libel and slander can be resorted to personally by the victim.
Celtic and Morelos both could probably sue Sky Sport website and win handsomely!
Auldheid 24th February 2020 at 20:27
"….what I’d like a view on is why Celtic have denied involvement?.."
%%%%%%%%%%%
I can only speculate that they didn't want to be seen to have supported such a lying fix even though they were as anxious as the rest (Turnbull Hutton excepted) that such a fix should be made to safeguard their own future revenues longer term.
I believe Celtic allowed themselves to be swept up in, perhaps even helped generate ,the panic occasioned by the prospect of a 'Rangersless' football , and put monies before principle, and know that they behaved shamefully and cannot square up to the truth and come clean.
They have blotted their consciences every bit as much as any of the principals in the disgraceful saga .
In the same way, they have not come clean about the Res 12 UEFA licence matter but indulged in all kinds of buggering about with specious 'reasons' and half-promises, spinning out the years in the hope that the Requisitioners would disappear.
Whatever the manifold faults of earlier generations of Celtic directors and major shareholders, deception and abandonment of principle in a fundamental matter was not one.
As at time of posting, not a peep about the RIFC Interims on the 'Rangers FC' website.
If they're not released this week, then will we see them at all?
And if they don't appear at all, then is there any sanction applicable? It's not as though RIFC could be delisted…
And a Cold Shouldered Chairman probably wouldn't give a monkey's about the obligations of communicating with fellow shareholders.
Auldheid 24th February 2020 at 20:27
"Did the terms of the 5 Way in effect provide a pardon to “Rangers” for the crimes against Scottish football if Sevco paid for it and in accepting the 5 Way Agreement by not questioning it, were Celtic a part of that pardon or did Celtic expect a just outcome from LNS…"
%%%%%%%%%%
This for me is the crux of the matter. A detailed OC/NC knowledge may illustrate to the sporting authorities that they haven't got away with it and better not try the same trick again but the average punter will struggle to grasp the nuance. The big picture is drawn with a crayon and not a stylus.
Title stripping would have sent a clear message but perhaps it risked opening up a spectrum of unknowns that may have proven difficult to marshal.
That title stripping could not be countenanced in certain quarters is unfortunate since surely this is only a game and should not be subject to intransigent boundaries; for that would make it politics or warfare.
Such intransigence tells of a deep underlying social psychology that I suspect all of us are blind to.
The 'take home' is that if you infringe the rules to the point that you overwhelm the available sanctions then you get no sanction at all, bar a disproportionately pitiful £250,000 fine. This is not a very good look.
StevieBC 24th February 2020 at 23:21
''….And if they don't appear at all, then is there any sanction applicable?'
%%%%%%%
I don't know about 'interim' accounts, but there's a piddling £7500 penalty for a plc that's 6 months late with its accounts reporting
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-of-a-company-annual-requirements/life-of-a-company-part-1-accounts#deadlines-for-filing-accounts
I am maybe a child of my generation, but the kid glove treatment of those in the world of business tends to get up my wick.
When one thinks of the likes of SDM, and that other cheat who was at least deprived of his 'knighthood'( the guys he upset must have lost a good few bob !) and the likes of CW and CG …….
cocking a snook at the rest of us with impunity, and laughing at the ease with which they can make money.
[Not to mention the parasite Lords (God Almighty, that we should still have such a concept!) who get their allowance for turning up for two minutes to sign the register and then bugger off): don't get me started!]
Auldheid,
I think the answer is at the end of the first paragraph of the email Peter Lawell claims he didn’t read.
On the same day as Rangers’ SPL share was transferred to Dundee – and everything fell into place to make the 5WA ‘work’ – ESPN announced a 5 year TV deal. Sky had made it’s announcement just 2 days earlier.
I believe the combined value was around £16m per year. From memory, I think the SFL received £1m from the SPL to allow a certain number of ‘Rangers’ games to be broadcast.
It seems that keeping Rangers ‘alive’ was the key to getting those TV deals over the line.
The 5WA is a legal contract, whereby the parties have agreed, amongst other things, that Rangers FC is a separate entity from The Rangers Football Club PLC.
The problem is that I cannot see how the signatories to the 5WA would have the legal authority to create this new construct – absent the appropriate AGM/EGMs and members passing suitable resolutions. It seems to me that the SPL’s contract with the TV companies is likely to have been built on this significant falsehood.
Weeks earlier, I think it was Lord Glennie who ruled that the SFA acted beyond its powers when seeking to impose a transfer ban.
What the 5WA appears to have done is commit the signatories to treat Sevco in a manner that was at odds with the Articles, Rules and Constitutions of the SFA, SPL and SFL.
I think this is what Turnbull Hutton described as ‘corrupt’.
It seems beyond credence, that the office bearers would not understand that they were acting beyond their powers. They would know – because it had just happened – that a properly constructed legal challenge would set aside such actions as void. The illusion that Rangers FC is separate from The Rangers Football Club PLC would simply fall away.
If I am correct and the office bearers did knowingly
act beyond their powers, the 5WA could constitute a serious fraud.
The TV money may have been the original motive; but the ongoing consequences are potentially even greater.
Would the RIFC IPO have performed differently if the investors had realised that Sevco was a new club? Would the current investors have a claim? What about those who have bought season tickets?
We are all looking at documents that may or may not be genuine. So we don’t know with any degree of certainty whether or not a crime has been committed.
Someone who has seen the actual documents – and has been on the boards of two of the bodies involved – would find it difficult to claim ignorance.
I can’t help thinking of Peter Lawell in the voice of Sgt Schultz…
“I know nothing…”
https://twitter.com/tedermeatballs/status/1232217505718001664?s=21
Don’t know what all the fuss was about, this article explains everything.
Not only has there been no movement on the Interim accts being released there seems to be no discussion on the share issue that was announced at Novembers AGM. King stated that the share issue would ensure the club* would be on a firm footing and he could then step down , he anticipated it would take around 4 months . The massive investment promised in January by Alex Rae hasn't happened , yet nobody questions why , the share issue is another mute point , nobody in the media asks if or when it is happening. I believe tomorrow is D-Day for them , the Europa is the only viable honey pot left . The extra gate money, tv and advertising , prize money and the chance to showcase some future sales is all the hope they have left to stay afloat . Failure in Portugal leaves them with difficult decisions to make and should that be the scuttling of SS Sevco then the interims will never see the light of day. If the lack of funds makes administration inevitable then the only choice is when , to attempt to kick the can to next season would be foolish when a point reduction can be taken now during a season their fans have already conceded.
Timtim 25th February 2020 at 10:05
‘….a point reduction can be taken now during a season their fans have already conceded.’
%%%%%%%%%
I’m very glad I’m not a creditor of the TRFC. I’d be spitting blood thinking about those guys deciding the best time for them to go into Administration, and to hell with their creditors and employees.
[I also have to say that I don’t think I know how to work out what the points deduction would be/]
Today the Scottish Chief Medical Officer has suggested the possibility of football matches being played behind closed doors in the event of a Coronavirus outbreak in Scotland. I wonder how many Scottish Clubs have the financial reserves/backing to cope with the possible loss of income?
Would the clubs have business disruption or other insurance that might cover this?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
John Clark, I think you'll find that the number of points deducted in the event of Administration would be "at the discretion of the Committee".
Ha!
How convenient would it be…?
It wasn't the £10M+ black hole in the accounts – but Coronavirus which killed 'The Rangers'!
John Clark 25th February 2020 at 12:49
From SPFL Rules and Regs . (there's more , up to E31.12).
E Club Financial Arrangements Insolvency E1 Where a Club takes, suffers or is subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event that Club shall, subject to Rule E4, be deducted 15 points and 5 points in the League in consecutive Seasons in terms of Rule E2 or Rule E3. E2 Where a Club takes, suffers or is subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event during a Season the 15 points deduction shall be applied immediately to take effect in that Season, with the 5 points deduction being applied in the immediately following Season such that the relevant Club shall commence that immediately following Season in the relevant Division on minus 5 points. E3 Where a Club takes, suffers or is subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event during a Close Season the 15 points deduction shall be applied in the immediately following Season, such that the relevant Club shall commence that immediately following Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points, with the 5 points deduction being applied in the Season next following the immediately following Season, such that the relevant Club shall commence that next following Season in the relevant Division on minus 5 points.
Timtim 25th February 2020 at 10:05 Not only has there been no movement on the Interim accts being released there seems to be no discussion on the share issue that was announced at Novembers AGM. King stated that the share issue would ensure the club* would be on a firm footing and he could then step down , he anticipated it would take around 4 months . The massive investment promised in January by Alex Rae hasn't happened , yet nobody questions why , the share issue is another mute point , nobody in the media asks if or when it is happening. I believe tomorrow is D-Day for them , the Europa is the only viable honey pot left . The extra gate money, tv and advertising , prize money and the chance to showcase some future sales is all the hope they have left to stay afloat . Failure in Portugal leaves them with difficult decisions to make and should that be the scuttling of SS Sevco then the interims will never see the light of day. If the lack of funds makes administration inevitable then the only choice is when , to attempt to kick the can to next season would be foolish when a point reduction can be taken now during a season their fans have already conceded.
_______________________
I may be mistaken, but I think there's more at stake than a meaningless points deduction, for is there not a (3year?) ban from Europe for any club entering, and coming out of, administration? Surely administration is a definite sign of breaking the FFP regulations even if there is no actual rule stating administration, in itself, result in a ban!
Allyjambo
Yes uefa would not be happy with trfc and the sfa, once that pub is pulled they are finished
Hummel Park no more. Unless someone is at it again.
Adam812@13.17
The corona virus could conceivably affect travel for European ties as teams are prevented from travelling to affected cities like Milan never mind closed doors.
Ex Ludo 25th February 2020 at 09:50 Don’t know what all the fuss was about, this article explains everything.
Lubo i just read that as a lot of cobblers and an excuse to use Strachan as an advert for, Celtic fans should read the DR GS does, read below who gives a quote like “I’ve not been able to pick up my Daily Record” surely it would read i have not been able to pick up a paper or the social media or/and in particular the Record without blah blah blah. The DR is shi*te. if thats wee Gordons choice of news then he goes down in my estimation
“Over the last couple of months I’ve not been able to pick up my Daily Record without seeing some latest row blow up. We’ve had everything from gestures to statements, interviews and mysterious translations. Who was behind that? What’s this guy doing? What does that gesture mean? It’s been madness.
paddy malarkey 25th February 2020 at 13:45
'…From SPFL Rules and Regs . .'
%%%%%%%
Thank you, PM.
So, if the Admin plug is pulled before end of season, TRFC will be immediately docked 15 points, and if they manage to be brought out of Administration (by perhaps engaging better Administrators) they would star next season on minus 5?
redlichtie 25th February 2020 at 13:22
'…Would the clubs have business disruption or other insurance…'
%%%%%%%%
This link to the American Law.com gives some interesting info on the possibility of business loss claims triggered by corona virus .
But we know what insurance companies are like!
https://www.law.com/dailybusinessreview/2020/02/12/for-businesses-suffering-from-coronavirus-losses-insurance-coverage-may-offer-a-remedy/?slreturn=20200125114743
John Clark
i remember the rules used to be 15 pts for admin but 25 pts for a second admin,if they have changed(possibly)then 15pts it is,if they haven't changed then if they want to say same club(don't laugh)then it is 25pts,giving them 15pts then tells us they think they are new club,but remember rules suit to whatever is playing at ibrox
You are partly correct Tony, the rules were changed for a second admin within 5 years. In this case the 5 years have expired so it would go back to 15 points.
@AJ
A 15pt reduction this season (no biggie) followed by a 5pt deduction next season ( makes stopping 10 even harder but not impossible) but the 3 years without any Euro cash will be a major stumbling block to anyone interested in a takeover . If I was a Rangers* fan I wouldn't yet have given up on this season though the odds are stacked in Celtic's favour. There is also the issue of what debt they could get rid of in admin , the outstanding transfer fees would seem to me to be the biggest problem . Then is there any realistic hope of attracting any investment even from their own fans , any real Rangers* man has been and gone and had his pockets emptied.
Darkbeforedawn
this is the first admin for TRFC,you know it i know it,but let's not go round in circles
John Clark 25th February 2020 at 16:39
they would star next season on minus 5?
……………………..
Timtim 25th February 2020 at 19:38
makes stopping 10 even harder
……………….
3 years without any Euro cash will be a major stumbling block
There is also the issue of what debt they could get rid of in admin
…………..
The loan players would be gone, and any player transfer fee not paid would see those players return to their original clubs. Would SG stick around with even less money to stop 10?A whole new austerity would have to kick in, would the ibrox fans buy into that as celtic go for 10. No matter how many fans phone in to talk shows and say give SG time to build, as the realisation kicks in will they hang around?
If there is an admin the ibrox club and fan base will just have to live with being a mid table team for a long time.
Ally Jambo.
Administration is a means of removing/reducing debt with creditors agreement and carrying on as the same club with the same SFA Membership.
So as far as UEFA are concerned TRFC would have more than the 3 years continuous SFA Membership (from 2012) and be eligible to apply for a licence.
The absurdity of the new insolvency rules is they do nothing to discourage a club from overspending and so creating a 15points gap with clubs below them because the deduction would not necessarily result in a loss of league placing.
In fact it encourages a club who have no intention of financing on a sustainable basis to take a punt every year.
Why other clubs allow it only they can say.
@C1
Are you sure about players being returned to their original clubs ? I don't see how that is feasible, they have no contract there and a majority of the fee may have been paid they may also be a long term injury problem since leaving and the original club doesn't want them .I don't think Liverpool would be happy to have Kent back and have to write off £Xm . Loan players would obviously be the first out the door but do those who have a contract not need to be paid off or can administrators just release them and make them free agents which would allow them to sign for a team outside the transfer window .
@Auldheid
So going into admin doesn't bar you from Europe in the next season ? Rangers* would still fail on FFP rules as they would be well over the €25m debts in 3 years . As JC has already stated this pre pack and associated admins are a Cheats Charter.
tony 25th February 2020 at 20:45
'….this is the first admin for TRFC,you know it i know it..'
%%%%%%%%%%
And, of course, I know it, too, tony!
We must never ever let ourselves be as the liars and the misguided are, and must keep insisting that TRFC is not RFC of 1872.
Even if less than 5 years had passed since RFC of 1872's insolvency events , we would insist that there could be no justification for treating TRFC as having a second Administration.
Timtim 25th February 2020 at 22:01
The last admin at ibrox seen players return i’m sure but i will look it up
.
edit. but when i think about it selling club would just become a creditor
Hirsute Pursuit
Thanks for your reply earlier. I'll touch on other points raised but interestingly on the question of the authority backing the 5 Way Agreement I had a conversation on Twitter in December with Roger Mitchell ex SPL CEO on that very subject. I have copied it over as the Doncaster e mail addressee list suggests not all clubs were consulted although that might have happened separately. Any comment?
From Twitter Conversation starts with
Judging EBTs:guilty
@AitkensDrum
Dec 15, 2019The SPL and SPFL *are the clubs*, yet not all clubs were asked about the creation of this agreement.
@RPMComo (Roger Mitchell)
has said before he couldn't have done so of his own volition. Outwith the bounds of his authority. So how on earth did it come to be and ratified by league sans clubs?
@RPMComo
in my day all big issues had a 11-1 vote needed. after the OF used that veto to block spltv, that was changed to 9-3. but you are correct, the spfl can do nothing without 9 clubs approving. there is NO independent power.
@Auldheid
Dec 15, 2019
So Celtic had to have seen it and approved? Why did PL say to gathered shareholders at AGM that he had not seen it? Protocol says he must or someone at Celtic did, like Eric Riley who was on SPL Board.
@Auldheid
Dec 15, 2019
Perhaps the rules have changed since your day Roger and only SPL Board & perhaps some sort of sub committee approval was required? It wouldn't be an agreement if not reached with proper consent , delegated or otherwise, of all SPL clubs. Don't see that happening.
@RPMComo
Dec 15, 2019
Trust me. It needs club approval. The spfl belongs to 12 shareholders. The shareholders agreement requires their approval. Board has no power.
@FansScarves
Dec 15, 2019
That’s consistent with what I said about the current SPFL as well AH. Mr Doncaster does not put his head above the parapet. He acts when the clubs instruct it. For that reason they dont turn on him as he’s not winging it. You can’t change his mind unless the clubs stance moves
@AitkensDrum
Dec 15, 2019
So. What now. If the league has acted without the authority of it's members, who are the only ones who determine anything of importance…..
@Auldheid
Dec 15, 2019
Now that is HUGE question. Is the 5 Way ultra vires? Surely not.
Fans Without Scarves
@FansScarves
Dec 15, 2019
Definitely not. Both Doncaster on behalf of the SPL and Longmuir with the SFL would have had authority to bind both
@RPMComo
Dec 15, 2019
The very idea, having died myself on a 11-1 vote, is very quaint.
@Auldheid
Dec 15, 2019
Can you clarify Roger? Are you saying all clubs had to see what they were voting in favour of the SPL signing up to or that it could be done by say the SPL Board on their behalf?
@RPMComo
Dec 15, 2019
I think I’ve been clear. Don’t make me repeat it. The SPFl Board has no power to bind the Spfl. It is a shareholder led organisation. The board is advisory.
@Auldheid
Replying to
@RPMComo
@FansScarves
and 4 others
Very helpful Roger. Thanks.
Cluster One 25th February 2020 at 22:26
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Timtim 25th February 2020 at 22:01
The last admin at ibrox seen players return i’m sure but i will look it up
.
edit. but when i think about it selling club would just become a creditor
…………………
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1232437867625902082/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1232438014388785154/photo/1
Timtim 25th February 2020 at 22:08 Edit
@Auldheid
So going into admin doesn't bar you from Europe in the next season ? Rangers* would still fail on FFP rules as they would be well over the €25m debts in 3 years . As JC has already stated this pre pack and associated admins are a Cheats Charter.
========================
I was clarifying the position on the 3 year ineligibility which is based on Article 12 of UEFA FFP. Its not 3 years accounts it is 3 years membership of the national association which a new club as UEFA define a club in that Article cannot have.
That is why even had TRFC been parachuted into the top tier and reach a qualifying position in 2012/13 season they could not have applied until 2016 as the 3 years would have elapsed in August 2015, too late to apply in that application cycle (although I bet they and SFA would have tested the water in March 2015 when applications were being considered.
The one year ineligibility (which applied to RFC in 2012/13 ) came as a result of failure to provide audited accounts to SFA in March 2012 to back up an application. The relevant article then was Article 47 and Annexes.
Interestingly in the 2011 application Interim accounts dated 1st April 2011 were used (the ones describing the £2.8m wtc bill as a potential liability) under Article 48. This determines when interim accs are required viz:
" If the statutory closing date of the licence applicant is more than six months
before the deadline for submission of the list of licensing decisions to UEFA,
then additional financial statements covering the interim period must be
prepared and submitted.
2 The interim period starts the day immediately after the statutory closing date and
ends on a date within the six months preceding the deadline for submission of
the list of licensing decisions to UEFA.
3 Interim financial statements must be reviewed or audited by an independent
auditor as defined in Annex V."
However the problem this licensing cycle now more or less underway might be two fold.
Either getting past Art52 " going concern" requirements (which I cannot copy paste) or the break even rules Articles 58 to 64, none of which I've tried to apply to TRFC's situation but against which they should be tested by SFA .
I think CQN might be looking into this aspect as the licensing cycle will be underway to be completed by the end of May.
Cheers AH, clinical and forensic as ever
@C1, so rip up the contracts and the clubs waiting on outstanding payments could end up with pennies on the £ !!!!
“In most instances, today’s rules are likely to see any sporting sanction for going into administration seriously increased from the 10 points at the moment and that’s a big change
…………….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/18263819
Scottish football abandons plans to automatically relegate clubs in administration
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-football/10631856/Scottish-football-abandons-plans-to-automatically-relegate-clubs-in-administration.html
It has also been agreed that, in future, the SPFL Board will have the sole responsibility for adjudication regarding clubs who might face liquidation.
“It will be down to the board to determine any conditions for a transfer of membership if a club is liquidated and attempts to go down the newco route,” said the source.
bigboab1916@16.30
You know it’s a load of cobblers, I know it’s a load of cobblers and the dogs in the streets know it’s cobblers. That doesn’t stop the DR attempting to deflect from the issues in question by putting a Sellic man up to explain it all away.
Ps. I don’t believe WGS buys the Record.
HirsutePursuit 25th February 2020 at 02:45 Edit
Auldheid,
I think the answer is at the end of the first paragraph of the email Peter Lawell claims he didn’t read.
On the same day as Rangers’ SPL share was transferred to Dundee – and everything fell into place to make the 5WA ‘work’ – ESPN announced a 5 year TV deal. Sky had made it’s announcement just 2 days earlier.
I believe the combined value was around £16m per year. From memory, I think the SFL received £1m from the SPL to allow a certain number of ‘Rangers’ games to be broadcast.
It seems that keeping Rangers ‘alive’ was the key to getting those TV deals over the line.
The 5WA is a legal contract, whereby the parties have agreed, amongst other things, that Rangers FC is a separate entity from The Rangers Football Club PLC.
The problem is that I cannot see how the signatories to the 5WA would have the legal authority to create this new construct – absent the appropriate AGM/EGMs and members passing suitable resolutions. It seems to me that the SPL’s contract with the TV companies is likely to have been built on this significant falsehood.
Weeks earlier, I think it was Lord Glennie who ruled that the SFA acted beyond its powers when seeking to impose a transfer ban.
What the 5WA appears to have done is commit the signatories to treat Sevco in a manner that was at odds with the Articles, Rules and Constitutions of the SFA, SPL and SFL.
I think this is what Turnbull Hutton described as ‘corrupt’.
It seems beyond credence, that the office bearers would not understand that they were acting beyond their powers. They would know – because it had just happened – that a properly constructed legal challenge would set aside such actions as void. The illusion that Rangers FC is separate from The Rangers Football Club PLC would simply fall away.
If I am correct and the office bearers did knowingly
act beyond their powers, the 5WA could constitute a serious fraud.
The TV money may have been the original motive; but the ongoing consequences are potentially even greater.
Would the RIFC IPO have performed differently if the investors had realised that Sevco was a new club? Would the current investors have a claim? What about those who have bought season tickets?
We are all looking at documents that may or may not be genuine. So we don’t know with any degree of certainty whether or not a crime has been committed.
Someone who has seen the actual documents – and has been on the boards of two of the bodies involved – would find it difficult to claim ignorance.
I can’t help thinking of Peter Lawell in the voice of Sgt Schultz…
“I know nothing…”
======================
Thanks for your full response. To clarify " Work is continuing on the rights agreement with the SFL." refers to TV rights? Ive no doubt commercial considerations were paramount.
Re my earlier comment on the exchange with Roger Mitchell on SPL authority perhaps this was obtained when the SPL clubs met on 3 August on the basis the SPL Board recommended the 5 Way conditions then, although the purpose of the meeting is stated as agreeing to transfer of RFC PL share to Dundee?
" The overall effect of the attached is that we will ‘exchange’ signed documents tomorrow, but ‘Completion’ will take place at an SPL General Meeting next Friday 3 August (this meeting has already been notified to clubs) to approve a transfer of Rangers’ share to Dundee. "
The 5 Way agreement documents have been around for a while so not sure how they became public but the Doncaster e mail is quite new and comes from same source as produced the documents for the Resolution 12 Archive. It preceded the Celtic AGM and the questioner had no knowledge of its existence when he asked.
What I'm trying to come to grips with is exactly what is it that prevents Celtic, in spite of all the evidence they were provided with, having initially indicated seeking SFA reform was an aim, point blank refusing to either take the case to UEFA in 2013 or again in 2019 when it is clear SFA have no intention of acting and Celtic have no intention insisting that they do?
Is it only that the 5 Way Agreement could not stand legal challenge?
Did UEFA have reasons not to investigate their part in agreeing the monitoring submission of June 2011 in Sept 2011?
Is there a bigger picture in that all licences issued to RFC when they were using undisclosed ebts were invalid failing "fair presentation rules" leading to compensation claims wider than Scotland or is it that Celtic fear the backlash from their support for accepting an agreement that legitimised the continuity narrative, then failed to ask questions about the LNS Commission Decision that legitimised titles "won" by RFC when they had the opportunity to do so in February 2011 when Eric Riley was absent from the SPL Board Meeting that accepted it or from 2014 when he received from SFM the HMRC correspondence relating to DOS ebts for De Boer and Flo that would have made his decision untenable had it been provided?
It has to be something so serious, Celtic (or SFA) fear it being made public to the extent they are prepared to mislead some of their shareholders.
Auldheid,
That exchange with Roger Mitchell is interesting. However, you might want to think of this in another way.
Think of the SFA Judicial Panel's decision to impose a transfer ban on the old Rangers.
There is no question that the panel had the authority to consider the merits of the case and to make a determination.
But, as we found out, having the authority to set out the punishment is limited by the organisation's articles and rules. It would have made no difference if the board (or even the full cast of members) had been polled for an opinion. If the statutes do not permit an office bearer (or bearers) to undertake a particular course of action, that action is, by definition, ultra vires.
To be clear, I don't think the entirety of the 5WA would fall; but, the creation of a new construct for an association football club would require amendments to the articles, rules and constitution of the SPL, SFA ànd SFL.
No such amendments have ever been made.
There is an interesting nuance to this. I am in little doubt that the purported agreement to 'transfer' the association football club called Rangers FC from The Rangers Football Club PLC to Sevco Scotland Ltd was ultra vires.
…but who would be in a position to challenge the legality of that transfer?
The window for judicial review has long since closed.
Who has lost the greatest from the decision?
Who has purchased the emperor's clothes? Sevco's investors have spent millions on this illusion of continuity.
Did DCK not recently threaten the SFA with the 5WA?
How great would their liability be to those investors if the SFA and SPL were to recant on their commitment to treat Sevco as the original Rangers?
…how interesting would it be if DCK went nuclear and and it was he who challenged the validity of the SFA/SPL/SFL assurances of continuity in the 5WA?
He could claim those bodies had knowingly given false assurances that caused him and the other Sevco investors and fans to make financial decisions that they would not otherwise have made.
Anyone and everyone who was a party to the deception would be in the cross hairs.
Unlikely?
… I’m not sure.
Just one last point to clarify…
Yes, I believe that the TV deals were the primary consideration. But the phoenixing of football clubs in England is a fairly common occurrence.
Just my feeling; but, I’d be surprised if Sky and/or ESPN would have cared that much if their viewers were watching the Rangers or just a Rangers.
As long as the fans turned up and the team played in blue they’d probably estimate that their viewing figures would likely be the same.
Getting the fans to turn out was the real key.
Hirsutepursuit@01.27 and continuing
Somewhere in the east, a Lord of the realm is standing on a high tower in the middle of his estate, laughing.
From the minstrel’s gallery Bob Dylan can be heard singing,
“No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But, uh, but you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us stop talkin' falsely now
The hour's getting late, hey… “
Auldheid 25th February 2020 at 22:34
I find it quite interesting that Mitchell dodges your question, rather rudely, when you ask him if all clubs had sight of the agreement. His answer also stated that the SPL board was only advisory (suggesting that they are commanded by the clubs) but that doesn't mean some/many of the clubs don't just act/vote on their advice.
There's also a number of factors, in my mind at least, that would have made all clubs being a party to the 5WA impracticable. From memory, it was all a rather rushed job. Getting 11 clubs to read and take legal advice*, then agree, would surely have been nigh on impossible, while keeping a secret a secret is known to be just as impossible in line with the more people or institutions that are aware of it. It seems incredible that no one from the other 11 has broken ranks by now (even anonymously) and spilled the beans. Remember, too, that the 11 other clubs must surely have discussed the terms with their own boards (and if not, is that legal?) before agreeing, and so the number of people knowing the terms will have multiplied leading to a greater number of people knowing the secret. What could make so many people (even 11 is quite a lot for a secret) keep so silent on something as major as this? I can only think of two – fear or personal advantage.
It would be interesting to know, too, if there is any record of a vote being taken on the terms of the agreement, itself, or if they just voted to accept whatever the board had cobbled together – if, indeed, there was any vote taken on the matter, at all.
Do we know if a vote was taken? Are we expected to take the word of people like Roger Mitchell, an ex-employee, so the board of the SPL/SPFL is not compromised if his comments are untrue/inaccurate?
We must always remember that the Secret 5 Way Agreement is a secret agreement for a reason. And that reason cannot possibly be a good nor honest reason.
Unless people like Roger Mitchell are a party to that secret, or at least involved in some way, how can he possibly know that proper procedures were taken? And if he is involved, however marginal, he then has an interest in keeping the wool firmly in place over as many eyes as he possibly can.
*Something that should have happened but probably wouldn't have.
The Health Minister in the Republic of Ireland is today advising the rugby team not to travel to Italy for their Six Nations game in March. Just a matter of time until this advice is taken up by football clubs across Europe.
HirsutePursuit 26th February 2020 at 01:53
…how interesting would it be if DCK went nuclear and it was he who challenged the validity of the SFA/SPL/SFL assurances of continuity in the 5WA? He could claim those bodies had knowingly given false assurances that caused him and the other Sevco investors and fans to make financial decisions that they would not otherwise have made. Anyone and everyone who was a party to the deception would be in the cross hairs. Unlikely? … I’m not sure.
=============
Well, a few points about King seem valid, IMO;
– King doesn't seem to have an emotional attachment to the Ibrox club. It's questionable if he even likes football. His background did not seem to include an association with Rangers – or any other club. He seems to pick and choose which TRFC matches to attend when he is actually visiting the UK.
He is a businessman – and a well dodgy businessman as a Judge once implied. Whatever King does, it's for self-interest…and certainly not for an 'undying love of his club'. IMO.
– If King was to depart Ibrox permanently, having suffered a major financial hit to his wallet, then anything is possible, IMO.
At the very least, there could be a proper, [vengeful?], 'warts and all' book about his time at both Rangers and TRFC.
And King wouldn't care about any fallout, as he'll be far away in South Africa enjoying his retirement.
Ex Ludo 26th February 2020 at 07:57
The Health Minister in the Republic of Ireland is today advising the rugby team not to travel to Italy for their Six Nations game in March. Just a matter of time until this advice is taken up by football clubs across Europe.
…………………………………….
Hardly surprising Ex Ludo, the game is in Dublin
On the face of it, the office bearers of the SFA, SPL and SFL all appear to have given false warranties regarding the recognition of ‘continuity’ of the association football club named Rangers FC.
That is, they all appear to have put their names to something that was contrary to their respective articles, rules and constitution. And, lacking the necessary powers to give such warranties, those office bearers have worked together to present/maintain the falsehood in order that a number of practical results could be achieved.
It should be up to the courts to decide if their conduct amounts to a conspiracy to defraud.
Under common law, the question of who was the beneficiary and who was the ‘victim’ of the deception is largely irrelevant. However, simply in terms of motive, the football authorities had a clear financial incentive to pretend that Rangers FC could survive the liquidation process.
Sevco also had commercial advantage in ‘paying for the history’ and would have been a willing participant to the deal. It may have a defendable position, in that it’s representative did not (as far as I am aware) make any false representations. However, if the actions of the SFA, SPL and SFL do amount to a conspiracy to defraud, the other signatories to the 5WA may just get caught up by Section 31 of Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2010/13/section/31
Also… any other person, who through their business dealings, was aware of the fraud, would be guilty of an offence.
So, for example, someone who was party to the negotiations and had been sent the document for approval, might think it is prudent to claim not to have opened the email and therefore can say that he has never read the 5WA.
Well, I mistimed my Court attendance and arrived in Court room 8 at 9.15.The business was over when I got in.
I went into Court toom 7 for the Grier damages case, where proceeding were under way.
Happily, eJ was already there, and was able to tell me that the Memorial Walls business was a technicality: TRFC do not dispute they were in breach of contract, so it's only about the quantum of compensation, and that will be a matter of evidence as to costs of planning and design ,loss of other potential work through diversion of resources and what not, all of which will have to be argued over later.
eJ will probably put on one of his excellent concise reports on the Grier proceedings: I heard nothing very exciting-just the 'Defender' arguing that he should be awarded the expenses incurred in an earlier Sheriff Court hearing seeking a decree( a decision on expenses had been reserved by the Sheriff ), and my memory bank couldn't relate the technicalities to that Sheriff Court hearing!
Not much to report from court this morning.
In the Memorial Walls v TRFC case, a proof will start on 24 March and is expected to last 4 days.
Lady Wolffe noted that TRFC had already admitted that they terminated the contract, therefore the proof will be based on “causation and damages”. A number of witnesses will be called by both sides. “Late” statements from Memorial Walls and Stewart Robertson for TRFC were admitted as evidence.
In the Grier v Police Scotland case Lord Doherty heard a motion on behalf of Police Scotland seeking to be awarded expenses in their favour, following Grier’s failure to persuade Lord Bannatyne to grant summary decree. Grier’s counsel argued that expenses for the summary decree hearing should not be granted in isolation from the ongoing action that will ultimately be decided in a proof hearing later this year.
Lord Doherty decided that there was no need to deviate from the convention of awarding costs against the loser in a hearing, so awarded costs in favour of Police Scotland. On the back of that “success”, counsel for Police Scotland then sought to argue for an uplift in the expenses awarded for exceptional work. He also asked for the court to consider the costs from the earlier hearings at Glasgow Sheriff Court which had been “reserved” by the acting Sheriff at the time. These requests will be considered at a future hearing.
The award of expenses will not be a cost to Grier personally, as he is covered by D&P’s insurance from Novae Insurance.
The mention of Novae also prompted Grier’s counsel to allege that DCI Robertson had breached an interdict in contacting Novae, seeking that they provide some documents to him. Grier’s counsel added that he was looking forward to cross examining Robertson at some point in the future.
Edit: I should add that Lord Bannatyne’s earlier ruling has not been published as yet as he had anonymised certain details. The parties in court agreed that any restriction should be lifted and the decision made public.
Allyjambo 26th February 2020 at 07:50
'…..We must always remember that the Secret 5 Way Agreement is a secret agreement for a reason. And that reason cannot possibly be a good nor honest reason..
%%%%%%
Indeed.Aj.
Bad guys working in concert need secrecy to hide their bad deeds, and because each of them knows that he is acting untrustworthily, he knows the others can be as un-trustworthy as he, so the need for an NDA .
The more I think about it, the more mentally unbalanced appear the individual(s) who first imagined they had the power to say that a new club was a 140 years old club that had died the football death of Liquidation! As loony as Cnut trying to command the tide to stop coming in, or Nero ordering a slave to be killed so that he could command him to come back to life!
CQNs Article today OOOOFT ! Looks like Hummel and Elite sueing Rangers is right enough
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1232455561041416192?s=21
Normanbatesmumfc@10.32
“Send three and four pence, I’m going to a dance.”
I see CQN has published the break even position in their latest blog.
My beef is Scottish football did nothing to stop this happening by introducing domestic FFP although a licence granted on conditions that UEFA can set is the start of sustainable financial behaviour where it has been absent until now.
roddybhoy 26th February 2020 at 13:14 CQNs Article today OOOOFT ! Looks like Hummel and Elite sueing Rangers is right enough
———-
If it's the CQN article regarding the FFP regulations you are referring to, I can see nothing in it that confirms the report that Hummel and Elite are suing RIFC/TRFC, although clearly the writer is still of the belief that they are. I'll reserve my own OOFT! until it is confirmed, though see the continued mention of it on CQN as reason to consider it likely. Regardless, though, of the veracity of the 'statement' from last week, I'd be very surprised if Hummel and Elite do not sue RIFC/TRFC for what looks like very obvious damages.
Auldheid 26th February 2020 at 13:32
'…My beef is Scottish football did nothing to stop this happening..'
%%%%%%%%%%%
Aw, hey, steady, Auldheid!
You'll have SDM suing the SFA either for not, through sheer lousy administrative supervision, copping on to the EBTs and hauling him up early doors, or for turning a blind eye to what he was doing!
The blame for the death of a 140 year old football club loved by 500 000 000 worldwide falls absolutely squarely on the man who cheated the football authorities, the fans of the dead club, and the taxman and us all and that man is SDM.
AllyJambo
Yeah I know what you are saying but I honestly think it must be true . Paul67 ( I must add I dont always agree with his views regarding the Celtic board ) Is'nt the type of guy to print something like that for attention . For him not to retract the article from last week and then comment on his article today that the scottish media wont report it , is very convincing …for me anyway . But as I said I know where you are coming from
Auldheid , Regarding FFP at home. Im by no means the smartest poster on here (by a loooooong shot) but I cant get my head round why the clubs are'nt battering the SFAs door down about implementing it. Surely it must be galling for all the clubs who do the decent thing and live within their means .They then get knocked out of cups , lose league points possibly miss out on a European slot to one team that has not one ounce of goodwill towards the spirit of the game . In fact by the sounds of things they may be about to drop another big negative upon our game if they do in fact suffer another ( first ) insolvency event. When you actually take a step back and think about it it is utter and total madness that the clubs allow this to happen . Do you think Auldheid, Allyjamo and all the other excellent posters , if Rangers do suffer an insolvency event would there then be an appetite by the other clubs to call for FFP ?? Whats to stop Rangers doing the exact same thing for a third time? I listened to a bit of sportsound the other night and was flabbergasted that they were saying things like " Rangers look unable to stop Celtics 9 titles , they MUST stop 10 "……Whit why must they stop 10 ???? Your favourite team are killing themselves with this nonsense , get real ffs
Roddybhoy,
I've read other similar opinions of the writer of the piece and have no reason to doubt his honesty or sincerity, but think it best to wait and see before further disappointment at TRFC missing out on its just desserts yet again.
easyJambo 26th February 2020 at 12:16
"…DCI Robertson had breached an interdict…"?
What interdict? When was it granted? What were/are its terms? And most importantly why did the Pursuer feel the need to get a Court Order prohibiting someone doing something which they shouldn't be doing anyway?
roddybhoy 26th February 2020 at 16:34 0 0 Rate This Auldheid , Regarding FFP at home. Im by no means the smartest poster on here (by a loooooong shot) but I cant get my head round why the clubs are'nt battering the SFAs door down about implementing it. Surely it must be galling for all the clubs who do the decent thing and live within their means .They then get knocked out of cups , lose league points possibly miss out on a European slot to one team that has not one ounce of goodwill towards the spirit of the game . In fact by the sounds of things they may be about to drop another big negative upon our game if they do in fact suffer another ( first ) insolvency event. When you actually take a step back and think about it it is utter and total madness that the clubs allow this to happen . Do you think Auldheid, Allyjamo and all the other excellent posters , if Rangers do suffer an insolvency event would there then be an appetite by the other clubs to call for FFP ?? Whats to stop Rangers doing the exact same thing for a third time? I listened to a bit of sportsound the other night and was flabbergasted that they were saying things like " Rangers look unable to stop Celtics 9 titles , they MUST stop 10 "……Whit why must they stop 10 ???? Your favourite team are killing themselves with this nonsense , get real ffs
______________________
I have no knowledge of the workings of the SPFL (or any of the previous league guises) but I don't share the opinion that the clubs control the game and the boards of the SFA and SPFL/SPL as was. They probably should, but if they did, there would never have been an entity such as the Old Firm holding so much sway in Scottish football. I didn't like it before, thinking it was no more than a convenient media created superlative for the country's two biggest clubs, but to learn that it was an actual 'thing', a brand owned by the two clubs, beggars belief that the rest of our clubs allowed it to exist, particularly when it was known they were conspiring to leave Scottish football. Conspiring to leave Scottish football and neither got so much as the mildest of criticism from the game's governors, whose very duty it was to protect and preserve the game for all their members. Something they appear to have forgotten, a long, long time ago.
My point here, though, is not about the OF, itself, but rather that if the rest were so cowed as to allow it to exist to take ever more selfish power, then there is little chance that they would ever think of standing against 50% of what they appear to believe is Scottish football's cash cow.
I have long suspected that Murray used his position as the most powerful man in our game to give his people at Park Gardens, then Hampden, ever more power, as long as they did his bidding, and, as it now appears, with Celtic seeing their allegiance in the Old Firm as a road to greater riches, the majority of clubs became ever more marginalised.
We've seen how the authorities in the wider, and much, much bigger field of business and finance are happy to stand by and give as little hindrance as possible to the Kings and Murrays of this world, so why should we assume that Scottish footballs guardians are not as fly as everyone else in business?
So, in answer to your question regarding why are they not battering down the door to get FFP implemented, along with so many other things we feel they should be demanding, I'd quite simply suggest it's because they don't believe they have the power to stand up to them. Them being those who hold the genuine power within our game.
He may, himself, have been a disgusting fraud of a man, but remember when Vladimir Romanov stood up to the SFA, the Old Firm and the media, he got not one piece of backing from anyone else in football. That example of what happens to the little club standing up to the powerful has stood those we rail against in good stead ever since.
As we come closer to the deadline for donations/subscriptions, could I make a wee plea to my fellow kibitzers to chip in a mite to what is the most important site for the analysis of the continuous festering wound that RTC started to pick all all those years ago?
if you’re like me, you avidly read all sort of stuff about your own team and Scottish football generally but almost never contribute to the discussion. That’s OK- football without supporters is nothing and blogs without readers are the same.
I can say that SFM is the only football related site l contribute financially to as it’s the only one that I would really grieve the loss of.
There- it’s good to get that of my chest, now I can go for a lie down after all this typing.
To summarise the above, JUST GIVE.
LUGOSI 26th February 2020 at 17:05
easyJambo 26th February 2020 at 12:16
"…DCI Robertson had breached an interdict…"?
What interdict? When was it granted? What were/are its terms? And most importantly why did the Pursuer feel the need to get a Court Order prohibiting someone doing something which they shouldn't be doing anyway?
===================================
I don't know any of the details. I just heard Grier's counsel make the claim in court today. If an interdict has been breached then I suspect that the interdict came from a complaint from the D&P guys about him seizing legally privileged documents or having misrepresented the facts when obtaining a search warrant.
That's any immediate financial concerns for TRFC eased with another £1.1m earned in prize money for reaching the last 16. They will also get another £1.5m+ in revenue from their next home tie, assuming they are not forced to play behind closed doors because of their songbook.
In footballing terms, no-one can deny that they have done incredibly well to get that far.
A 2nd CL qualifying place, together with later entry to the competition, is all but guaranteed for season 2021/22 with the coefficient rapidly rising with both Celtic and Rangers efforts.
A good article on CQN from paul67. He was one of the first, if not the first to accurately predict the financial implosion of Rangers.
https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/newco-ffp-and-perilous-finances-here-we-go-again/
Auldheid 25th February 2020 at 23:50
Re my earlier comment on the exchange with Roger Mitchell on SPL authority perhaps this was obtained when the SPL clubs met on 3 August on the basis the SPL Board recommended the 5 Way conditions then, although the purpose of the meeting is stated as agreeing to transfer of RFC PL share to Dundee?
………………
Allyjambo 26th February 2020 at 07:50
There’s also a number of factors, in my mind at least, that would have made all clubs being a party to the 5WA impracticable. From memory, it was all a rather rushed job. Getting 11 clubs to read and take legal advice*
…………….
Aug 2012 was a busy time
Aug 1, 2012..The commission appointed by resolution of the board of directors of the scottish premier league ltd Aug 1, 2012 in relation to RFC 2012 PLC and rangers fc.
….Regan called gers Grass and irrespansible in an article.
Aug 2, 2012… SPL press release, has announced that it has appointed an independant commission to inquire in to alleged EBT payments.
Aug 3, 2012….SFA have confirmed that the rangers newco have been granted full membership. Full membership depended on rangers SPL share being handed to Dundee a formality that was completed on the friday morning.
Also in an article dave king blames Murray and whyte for killing the club.
Also the SPL disputes that rangers fc ceased to be a club on 14, june 2012, and argues that the relevent date is Aug 3, 2012.Also Doncaster was remaining tight-lipped on the value of new brodcasting deals.
Aug 4, 2012… club 12 replaces rangers in the SPL.
There was a lot going on in early Aug 2012.
https://twitter.com/kilmarnockfc/status/1232636705284526080?s=21
Lets just move on.
Cluster One 26th February 2020 at 23:01
‘…There was a lot going on in early Aug 2012.
%%%%%%%%%
Yes, indeed, a lot of rottenness.
Think of the frantic, panic-stricken, gutless men in football governance at that busy time, whose innate rottenness of soul led them to adopt a ridiculous, ludicrous path of deceit and dishonour rather than discharge their offices of trust faithfully and justly.
Think of them now having to live for the rest of their of their lives with self- disgust , knowing that, whatever obituary may be written about them when they breathe out their last rotten breath, their contribution to Scottish Football will be remembered for the deceit they practised and the lies they propagated.
And think of them with contempt and disgust, while they at present metaphorically thrust out their jaws, teeth clenched and arms folded aggressively, and tell us to ‘f..k off!’ in their defiant stance against Truth.
Braga Police Witness Appeal
Police wish to speak to a man who witnessed singing about Fenians, Popes, Famine, Child Abuse, White Supremacy and, they think, something about Aberdeen and Hamilton. The Police think he may be of assistance as during the singing he observed during a live television transmission that “the visiting fans were in fine voice.” The Police have already spoken to one Michael Stewart who assures us Guidelines are in place and will, no doubt, have been complied with. Mr Stewart also advised us to check if the witness has paid tax on his fee as there was some unpleasantness in the past. (Note To Self: Google ‘EBT’)
The witness is on the right of the photograph. (Don’t be confused if the fellow on the left shows up on the EBT Google search-long story.) (Note To Self: Google ‘SASH BASH’)
https://images.app.goo.gl/8GpzEtPSCuaizD7w7
Remember when there was an oft used phrase: “Show us ra deeds!” ?
Now it could be: “Show us ra Interims!”
I’ve just read the rambling, Club1872 statement – wanting Michael Stewart’s head on a spike, and BBC Scotland to kneel down at the steps of Ibrox, allegedly…
And recently I’ve also become aware of another phrase/term: ‘Psychological Projection’.
It’s where you accuse your opponent of what you are actually guilty of doing yourself.
It’s a tactic that can also be used e.g. in politics.
It’s not that long ago that Ibrox was a ‘loud and proud’ champion of blatant racism, b!gotry and social exclusion. It was such an open, normal part of life in the West of Scotland that it was never questioned by the local football governing bodies and even in local culture it could get a reference e.g. in comedy shows.
In recent years, Ibrox has had to tone it down in public – and learn to ‘play the game’ with regards to the government’s ‘One Scotland many Cultures’ initiative – and to keep UEFA sweet, as evidenced most recently by the rapidly, reactive ‘Everyone Anyone’ campaign.
…and that then leads us to today, with the truly breath-taking Psychological Projection from Club1872 alleging racism, intolerance, unfairness etc. against a pundit and against the BBC, [which it also allegedly claims to be Institutionally biased… against the Ibrox club!]
Absolutely mental!
Copied from SFA website;
“Fast Track Tribunal Update | James Keatings, Player, Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC Thursday 27 February 2020
Player: James Keatings, Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC
Match: Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC v Rangers FC on Sunday 16 February 2020
Competition: Scottish League Challenge Cup
Offence: B1k – Commits an act of simulation
Claim: Wrongful Caution
Fast Track Tribunal Hearing: Thursday 27 February 2020
Outcome: Claim upheld. B1k rescinded.”
=====================
Cleared to play in the ‘Caramel Wafer’ Cup Final.
That takes the biscuit… 😉
John Clark 27th February 2020 at 09:41 Cluster One 26th February 2020 at 23:01 ‘…There was a lot going on in early Aug 2012. %%%%%%%%% Yes, indeed, a lot of rottenness. Think of the frantic, panic-stricken, gutless men in football governance at that busy time, whose innate rottenness of soul led them to adopt a ridiculous, ludicrous path of deceit and dishonour rather than discharge their offices of trust faithfully and justly. Think of them now having to live for the rest of their of their lives with self- disgust , knowing that, whatever obituary may be written about them when they breathe out their last rotten breath, their contribution to Scottish Football will be remembered for the deceit they practised and the lies they propagated. And think of them with contempt and disgust, while they at present metaphorically thrust out their jaws, teeth clenched and arms folded aggressively, and tell us to ‘f..k off!’ in their defiant stance against Truth.
_______________
While every word you utter about those vile people is true and accurate, John, I very much doubt the contempt and disgust we all feel for them will bother them one little bit. They are very much of the same ilk as that now dead institution's supporters who used to chant, 'nobody likes us, we don't care', although that lot actually really did care, they cared a lot, but their hubris forced them to pretend otherwise. But those of the ilk of Doncaster, Regan and all do not care one bit for what people like us, their customers, think of them, they only care about the salary and bonuses they can 'earn' and the jollies they can go on. If only one person, the person who pays their wages, says 'well done', while a million curse their very soul, they will pat themselves on the back, do a fist pump, and think, 'I'm bloody good at my job, I'm a f**king superstar'.
They are all mini-Murrays.
StevieBC 27th February 2020 at 12:02 Copied from SFA website; “Fast Track Tribunal Update | James Keatings, Player, Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC Thursday 27 February 2020 Player: James Keatings, Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC Match: Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC v Rangers FC on Sunday 16 February 2020 Competition: Scottish League Challenge Cup Offence: B1k – Commits an act of simulation Claim: Wrongful Caution Fast Track Tribunal Hearing: Thursday 27 February 2020 Outcome: Claim upheld. B1k rescinded.” =====================
Cleared to play in the ‘Caramel Wafer’ Cup Final. That takes the biscuit… ?
_________–
So Stevie, are you having a 'who are these people' moment by hinting that you've discovered one of the panel of 'football experts' goes by the name of 'McVittie'?
Can you collect my coat at the same time as you collect yours?
Allyjambo
Collect your coat and your hat jack ?
… leave your worries on the doorstep ……
Big Pink 27th February 2020 at 15:09
‘…leave your worries on the doorstep ‘
“…Life is sweet on the sunny side of the street”
I think I was hearing that , back in the 1940s, ffs!
[And question: Is Mr Tunnock paying full VAT on his caramel wafer biscuits, ardent fan of the UK that he is?]
I hear the sound of silence? But it is no a Celtic site! A wee donation to SFM on the way from me because we should all keep on fighting against the "big lie". Celtic were sh**te by the way. Just sayin.
Bordersdon
Might be quiet a while longer then. EJ & co will be gutted?
Don’t agree they were poor on the whole either. Uncharacteristic schoolboy errors cost them big time. Good that TRFC are doing their bit for the coefficient though?
Bordersdon@22.38
C’est la vie. It really isn’t the end of the world for Celtic fans. Not good for the co-efficient, obviously but you’re right, this isn’t a Celtic site, it’s an ecumenical forum where bigger issues than mere results are in play.
I once had the pleasure to meet a ‘guy’ in The Coach (& Horses) in Soho, Londontown. Jeffrey Joseph Bernard. I can’t vouch for the man; but I did hang out there (in the hope of a conversation) and listened intently. More than twice. He’s dead now; but his words continue to resonate, albeit I reserve the right to interpret as I see fit. To quote:
‘One way to stop a runaway horse is to bet on him’.
What are the odds?
Sifflersmom
A little early for philosophy I think. Some bustin’ heids around. ☹️
did the supposedly all powerful clubs care? And were they specifically given that choice? Or worst of all, did they ‘vote’ for one and then watch the other manifest itself in front of them?
It seems Police Scotland is also unhappy with last night's result.
STV Sport@STVSport
Copenhagen goalscorer Michael Santos has been charged in connection with an alleged assault on a police officer during Thursday night’s clash with Celtic at Parkhead.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1233149647797006337
Away from the circus the real World keeps on spinning and whether it's the effects of the Corona virus or years of QE and a rigged financial system finally coming home to roost the stock market is taking one hell of a beating. I personally don't believe the 2008 crisis was ever fixed , too much debt is rarely fixed by creating more debt and reducing the interest rate to near zero to allow repayment. They are now discussing negative interest rates as a solution which is effectively paying people to borrow money while fining people for saving it . At this point faith and trust in the system collapses and the rules have been turned upside down. What the fixtures has this to do with football ? Well if you are in need of funding , if you owe a lot of people a lot of money and you are surviving paycheck to paycheck then usually you are the first of many casualties in a downturn/recession/depression. The Europa results have complicated matters , Rangers* need to keep the train running with more funding chasing a Euro dream before any Uefa cheque arrives while Celtic can concentrate on the 2 competitions that really matter. The half yearly report and any share issue news has yet to materialise although King can obfuscate the former and wax lyrical about the latter to appease the gullible while the mood is good . The midweek results do not alter the reality greatly , one team had a bad day at the office and one got lucky .
Easyjambo@10.24
I’m wondering now if Santos had immediately been arrested would Copenhagen have been allowed to make a substitution?
Ex Ludo 28th February 2020 at 10:43
I’m wondering now if Santos had immediately been arrested would Copenhagen have been allowed to make a substitution?
===============================
I don't see any reason why they would have been prevented from doing so, assuming they hadn't used up their three substitutions before any arrest.
Ex Ludo 28th February 2020 at 10:43
Easyjambo@10.24
I’m wondering now if Santos had immediately been arrested would Copenhagen have been allowed to make a substitution?
=======================
The Polis could have done CFC a favour last night and arrested a few CFC players too – during the game – for fraudulently impersonating footy players!
Could have arrested Lennon for negligently NOT closing down the game for those last 5 minutes – and to heed the oldest saying in the footy book – 'you score a goal you lose a goal' – and use the Extra Time to secure a winner in front of the home support.
'Ex Ludo 28th February 2020 at 10:43
I’m wondering now if Santos had immediately been arrested would Copenhagen have been allowed to make a substitution?'
###################
Wouldn't that be a VAR recommendation for review for a potential red card under Law 12 – Fouls & Misconduct?
(Disclaimer: I haven't seen the match or the alleged incident.)
I don't as a rule comment on particular football matches or results (my interest being more focussed on whether the game as a whole is worth the candle when its governance as a whole is guilty of sporting corruption and running it on a fundamental lie.
However, the effect on Simunovich of his catastrophic error was the equivalent of a serious injury. he was clearly in shock at the enormous consequences of his error and unable to function effectually.
He should have been substituted ,not as any kind of 'punishment', of course, but because, like an injured player, he had become a liability in so far as no confidence could be placed in him.
And with him still on the pitch , the other ten could not do the more normal thing of battening down the hatches ,as teams reduced to ten men so often can do.
I think Lennon misjudged that whole situation. And the headless chicken behaviour began as all cohesion evaporated with quite a while to go.
But then, what do I know.
The Celtic board , having been quite unconcerned a number of years ago at possibly having been diddled out of a few million quid, will be able to shrug off the lost opportunity of earning a few more!
Watched the Europa cup draw and couldn't believe they said rangers of course where in the 2008 final, I give up, I now urge every club in Scotland to cheat like f**k, don't pay tax and start again on a journey, uefa and sfa don't seem to mind so what's stopping any team from doing it
That'll be this season's shortfall dealt with then .
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-prize-money-boost-europa-21594324
Well, if we're ever going to see these RIFC Interims…
I thought immediately after the Braga win was an ideal time to release them.
So, I suppose tonight / late on a Friday evening is the best / last chance…?
Personally, I don't think Interims will be released now.
…and should that transpire, it should further alarm the bears / the SFA / the SPFL / Ibrox creditors / etc…]
StevieBC
TRFC fans don't care about that stuff, they beat braga everything is rosey in the garden, till Saturday evening
Paddymalarkey@12.43
Or pay off Dave King?
Ex Ludo 28th February 2020 at 13:44
A wee bit misleading , as the 13.4 million euros referred to is split among the qualifying teams , meaning TRFC hoover up the share that would have been CFC's , about £250k .
Actually, whilst I'm rabbiting on about Interims…
I checked back to earlier years on the 'RFC' website's 'Report & Accounts' section to see what variations – if any – there had been in Interims' release dates.
Last year the Interims were released 25th February, 2019. [Hence, the expectation this week.]
But, the previous year they were released a month later: 29th March, 2018.
And more curious;
for the earlier again, 2 years Interims, [for the 6 months to 31/12/17 & to 31/12/16], the official document does not actually include a date… and not even a signature.
[2018 & '19 have both been signed – and dated – by King.]
RIFC was delisted from the AIM Stock Exchange back in March '15.
Probably means nothing in the great scheme of things, but when it comes to 'official' returns – typically – people tend to deliberately follow the same, strict conventions of format and timings – if only to avoid confusion and follow up questions from officialdom.
bordersdon 27th February 2020 at 22:38
——————————————-
Definitely not a Celtic forum. I think the last three blogs have savaged the Celtic PLC Board. Personally I think it's time some of the other Club boards in Scotland got a bit of heat on here. In particular the boards of Aberdeen, Hibernian and Kilmarnock, all of whom publicly ran a mile from demanding an inquiry into why the SFA were so lax with a club who operated a completely illegal tax avoidance scheme to better themselves on the park.
The Celtic PLC board are deserving of some heat, that's for sure, but there is not one single other club in Scotland holding the moral high ground, that's also for sure. In my opinion of course.
upthehoops 28th February 2020 at 16:25
'..but there is not one single other club in Scotland holding the moral high ground, that's also for sure.'
%%%%%%%%%%%%%
And the lying and cheating was not even 'necessary'.
It is quite impossible to accept that everybody in Scottish football governance really believed that TRFC would not draw the same volume of support from its 40K plus season tickets sales and walk-up supporters if the SFA played it straight , applied the rules that had applied to everybody else for generations, and stated plainly that the new club they were (fairly generously, perhaps) admitting into football for the first time was not RFC of 1872, and could not possibly claim to be so by passing over a few quid to 'buy' sporting merit and entitlements.
No, however much they may have mumped and moaned and marched to Hampden, if the SFA had stood firm in truth and sporting honour,TRFC would just have had to accept the truth, and the supporters would not have off their own noses to spite their faces.
It seems to me that the need to cause agitation and trouble and threats stemmed from the need to get a public share offer issued, based on 'continuity'.
Public acknowledgement by the SFA that TRFC was not the most successful club in world football might have made such share offer decidedly unsuccessful.
I believe that the deceit really only mattered to the people who wanted to make money out of another football club's achievements, and the SFA helped them by disregarding rules, especially the rues of common sense.
Very few 'Rangers supporters' would have turned their back on the fledgling club, and would instead have lavished even more support : what the new club stands for emotionally is the same as what the dead club stood for.
Correcting the record books to restore truth would not have changed that!
And the SFA and the other clubs must have known that, but chickened out regardless.
upthehoops
Also don't think it's a celtic forum, be pretty boring if it was, as you say about other clubs, yes they should be shouting from rooftops as well, sitting in a pub in Rutherglen today you would think only celtic had historical cold abuse claims against them, the smsm is to blame for that IMHO
child,not cold,sorry
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1233069450917793793
Delighted to confirm that Neil Doncaster, chief executive of the SPFL, will be our guest on @POF_POD
next week. If you have any questions on Scottish Football Finances please send to Questions@PriceOfFootball.com
…………….
Wonder how many questions will be asked, and how many will be answered.
Cluster One 28th February 2020 at 18:54
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1233069450917793793
Delighted to confirm that Neil Doncaster, chief executive of the SPFL, will be our guest on @POF_POD
next week. If you have any questions on Scottish Football Finances please send to Questions@PriceOfFootball.com
…………….
Wonder how many questions will be asked, and how many will be answered.
=================================
I know Auldheid had asked a couple via twitter. I have also emailed another three.
Doncaster is a lawyer: he'll already have his answers prepared… regardless of the questions submitted.
Nothing will be accidentally shared with the audience.
https://purefitbaw.com/2020/02/26/the-pyramid-conundrum/
………………
Interesting read.
https://www.facebook.com/1586730747/posts/10218953754266628/?d=n
How it all started.
John Clark 28th February 2020 at 17:48
upthehoops 28th February 2020 at 16:25
'..but there is not one single other club in Scotland holding the moral high ground, that's also for sure.'
%%%%%%%%%%%%%
And the lying and cheating was not even 'necessary'.
It is quite impossible to accept that everybody in Scottish football governance really believed that TRFC would not draw the same volume of support from its 40K plus season tickets sales and walk-up supporters if the SFA played it straight , applied the rules that had applied to everybody else for generations, and stated plainly that the new club they were (fairly generously, perhaps) admitting into football for the first time was not RFC of 1872, and could not possibly claim to be so by passing over a few quid to 'buy' sporting merit and entitlements.
No, however much they may have mumped and moaned and marched to Hampden, if the SFA had stood firm in truth and sporting honour,TRFC would just have had to accept the truth, and the supporters would not have off their own noses to spite their faces.
It seems to me that the need to cause agitation and trouble and threats stemmed from the need to get a public share offer issued, based on 'continuity'.
Public acknowledgement by the SFA that TRFC was not the most successful club in world football might have made such share offer decidedly unsuccessful.
I believe that the deceit really only mattered to the people who wanted to make money out of another football club's achievements, and the SFA helped them by disregarding rules, especially the rues of common sense.
Very few 'Rangers supporters' would have turned their back on the fledgling club, and would instead have lavished even more support : what the new club stands for emotionally is the same as what the dead club stood for.
Correcting the record books to restore truth would not have changed that!
And the SFA and the other clubs must have known that, but chickened out regardless.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The deceit did only matter to the people who wanted to make money from the wreckage of Oldco and this goes back to your complaint to the FCA. The deceit was necessary to raise the funds in an IPO because investors would see the history, honours etc etc which made it a more attractive prospect.
The IPO would have been part of the early planning and the SFA must have been aware of this because they would need to have assessed the financial viablity of the TRFC going forward. What is interesting is where the money came from to plug the gap prior to the IPO.
Yes the fans would have supported a Phoenix club, as I would have had my club gone that way, but running a Rangers costs a lot and needed more than fans money. They had been asked before by Murray in 2005 to step up to the plate but responded poorly. Wealthy Rangers men who could have assisted stood back because the club was and remains toxic.
Cluster One 28th February 2020 at 21:31
https://purefitbaw.com/2020/02/26/the-pyramid-conundrum/
………………
Interesting read.
=================================
I’ve been following the story fairly closely, so had already read the linked article.
We are getting very close to the point when the Juniors will know what is on offer to them in the pyramid, but they won’t be joining it as an autonomous entity, which is what the blazers of the SJFA wanted.
The Lowland League and East of Scotland Football League decided to break the impasse, by inviting clubs to intimate their interest in joining a newly created West of Scotland Football league at tier 6, equivalent to the East of Scotland Premier Division.
The LL and EOSFL set a deadline of 1 March for notes of interest. The suggestion is that 30 clubs, mainly junior with the odd amateur side, have already expressed interest. The LL has indicated that, based of the level of interest, they will respond with more detailed plans by 6 March, e.g. multiple conference leagues at Tier 6, or seeded divisions based on current rankings at tiers 6,7, or even 8. They will then invite formal applications, which will have a deadline of 31 March.
There are currently 63 West Region Junior clubs. I personally expect that half of them will switch from the Juniors to the “seniors” at a minimum. It is entirely possible that the majority will seek to switch if all their local rivals do so. If not, some clubs could fold or go amateur. I guess it will all depend on numbers going or staying and the viability of any remaining leagues.
There are of course Junior clubs outside the West Region. Five East Junior clubs, Thornton, Lochgelly, Kennoway, Kirkcaldy and Rosyth have already applied to join the EOSFL next season (at tier 7), with the possibility of more to follow. That will leave the East Region with mainly Tayside and West Lothian clubs. The Tayside clubs have the added issue of geography to consider. According to the rules of the Highland and Lowland Leagues, clubs north of the Tay Bridge are in the Highland League catchment area and those south of it are in the Lowland League are. There would be no point in Carnoustie or Lochee applying to join the EOSFL, as they would be ineligible for promotion to the LL by geography, unless the boundary line is moved.
That boundary line may be tested at the end of the season if Brechin City loses the play off. Under current rules they should be relegated to the Highland League, which may not be their favoured option, as I believe that most of their players are based in the central belt.
There is no current feeder to the Highland League, but I understand that they are in talks with both the North Region Juniors (mainly North East clubs) and the North Caledonian League (mainly North of Inverness and North West clubs),
Whatever happens, the “senior” leagues will look very different next season.
Further to my post above, coincidentally the West Region Juniors FA sent out the following email to its member clubs, earlier this evening.
For anyone the has been close to what has been going on, it looks like a last desperate appeal to keep the Juniors together rather than allow clubs to choose what is in their best interests. Considering resolutions outside the jurisdiction of the football authorities? ……….. sounds like a threat of legal action. Maybe they’ll end up at CAS before TRFC.
Dear All
Pyramid
Following the Scottish Junior F.A. statement of the 14th February 2020, the West Junior F.A. would confirm their direct engagement with George Fraser Chairman of the Lowland League. A meeting was held on Wednesday 19th February where the WJFA representatives presented a number of proposals for the Lowland League to consider in order to open up further meaningful discussions in order to reach a mutually beneficial solution.
It is with bitter disappointment that we report our proposals have been rejected. We see the WJFA structure as a perfect bespoke solution to meet the Lowland League plans for the creation of a West of Scotland League which would fill the Pyramid void in the geographical West of the country.
Contrary to some opinion the SJFA have throughout pyramid discussions played a proactive approach within the Pyramid Working Group (PWG), we have not walked away and are always willing to re-open talks. Despite numerous agreements/statements including definitive conclusions by the Scottish FA these have failed to be followed through and released within the public domain. These will released in due course. All Junior Clubs should feel badly let down that we have yet to be included within the SFA’s blue print for “Pyramid” more especially when this had been previously agreed. This has not been the fault of the SJFA or the WJFA.
We have other options at our disposal and will implement these from today.
We would advise all clubs that at this time they should keep their options open with regard to “Expressions of Interest”, this in no way has to be regarded as “raising the white flag”, far from it. It is to safe guard our member clubs in their desire to join the pyramid. It would be remiss of the West Junior F.A. not to advise on the foregoing.
We can assure all member clubs that our resolve remains steadfast and that all that can be done will be done to ensure “no one is left behind”. It may be that the determination outcome lies outside the football authorities jurisdiction. A step we will consider if required to do so.
West Junior F.A
Should UEFA instigate disciplinary proceedings about the singing about Fuck The Pope; Ditto The Vatican; Famines being over; historic Child Abuse; WASPism, No Pope Of Rome, views on all Catholic Priests and any number of other chants which may of themseves be inoffensive but by the addition of what have come to be called “add-ons” (mostly if not all consisting of words involved in the original repertoire) are at least, if not more, offensive.
It’s not complicated. Scotlands Courts ruled over ten years ago these chants were racist and sectarian. The Courts didn’t have to go to the last refuge of the scoundrel and have a mealy-mouthed; weaselly-worded debate on whether some views were/are offensive. The Courts were clear: of course they were and they still are. Even if it were otherwise a Not Proven on a Breach of the Peace isn’t much of a victory measured against a conviction of Guilty on a Murder Charge.
The evidence is in plain sight. The audio/visual transmission is there including Alex Rage commenting that the fans were in “fine voice”. It’s good that Mr Rage is not going down Super Salary Suberb Gardener’s excuse of you can’t hear anything in the dugout or another pundit’s excuse that headphones mean you can’t hear what’s being sung. Mr Rage heard because if he hadn’t he wouldn’t have remarked on it and he not only heard it he formed the opinion the chants were not blameworthy. It seems, instead, like the Sashes he sees at his Sash Bashes (whatever they are but I’m guessing he doesn’t pay his own way to go to Leicester; doesn’t pay to get in and does it all for Charidee) their colours they are fine.
EBT debt may be troublesome but when you’ve picked up over half a million quid taxfree on top of your wages/salary etc and then seem to land a gig everywhere mangling the English (and the Scots) language to be a BFDJ Tribute Act some basic rules should apply. I have no problem with the lower level mendacity and rank incompetence; Old Firm, history going back to, um, mair thun ate yeers, the boay’s dun good, the ba’s in their hauf and they should huv went and heided it commensurate with whit’s paramount with the earlier caveat in manipulating their strategy cause ‘at’s whit you should dae wi’ they things.
It was noticeable a few weeks back when on Radio Clyde Gordon Dalziel openly exposed what many of us had previously suspected. Mr Rage often prefaces his seemingly up to date footballing knowledge with “I think…” and then narrates a team’s recent win/lose; goals for/against etc. Mr Dalziel repeated/paraphrased Mr Rage’s words “You think?… You mean you’ve Googled and you’re now reading off a computer screen? That’s not “I think”…”
Still sad to think they’re both getting paid for this sort of level of punditry or guruness or whatever it’s supposed to be.
Given the Broadcasting Guidelines (which can be viewed; they’re filed just beside the Five Way Agreement) Mr Rage has given his warm approval to chants about people who weren’t present to defend themselves. This, we and Michael Stewart have been told, is not fair and balanced broadcasting. All parties must be given a right of reply to Mr Rage’s views, or as they now seem to be called if you are vexed by them “rant” and no doubt Mr Rage will be able to show his “remorse” and profer his “apology”. Not to us of course. To IQ72; to GASH; to Jabba (Level5PR-We’re only a stones throw away); to the Liquidation Denial adherents busy making plans to get to an away fixture in Germany before finding out if they’ll be permitted to get to sit in their own seat at the home fixture.
I look forward to Mr Rage overcoming his natural shyness and favouring us with an explanation. Then we can have the views of the co-commentator Rob McLean who agreed with Mr Rage and later upped the ante with a reference to the visiting fans being “in fine tune”. Then BT can give their views…
Of course in reality I see little of this happening but I do see German football fans being subjected to songs about WWII; Bombers; Brexit; Red Hands of Ulster (which are nothing like Nazi salutes) and Britannia Waiving The Rules. I can also envisage T’Rangers having to release a Statement bemoaning the fact that their innocent, scallywaggery behaviour has been taken the wrong way by their visitors/hosts (ban permitting). I can also see Mr Rage saying he agrees, more investment on its way, next trophy will be number 55 even though they’ve never won any so far and Mr King, who has left/is leaving has sorted/will sort it and does anyone want to buy DFS Fredo? (Discount applies only until the end of Lent when price reverts to previous price-ie whatever anyone’ll pay plus 10% sell on fee less fines imposed for yellow/red cards/off field wrestling with P.Is. At his next move T’Rangers might get a bill.
Scotland needs a strong Hearts.
Just for one day.
One of the problems that is heading the way of the current cobbled together pyramid system is the growing imbalance between the two halves of the current Highland and Lowland Leagues play off.
It is currently Highland v Lowland and there already is a population imbalance between the less populated north versus much of the rest of the country.
When the Glasgow and Ayrshire junior teams pile in the imbalance gets worse.
Politics are everywhere.
Add that to the fact that there is no automatic relegation from SPFL League 2 (because of a last minute double cross a few years ago) and the system is progressing at a snails pace.
And its a pity because while all the media, political, SPFL and SFA focus is on the top league and the overwhelmingly dominant Glasgow duopoly, the real future for healthy football in Scotland is local with community clubs as the foundation for everything else.
StevieBC 28th February 2020 at 21:13
'….Doncaster is a lawyer ……Nothing will be accidentally shared with the audience.2
%%%%%%%%%
I'm not familiar with the world of 'podcasting.
I assume it is not live radio, but a recording.
I therefore assume that the final version that is made public contains responses only to pre-arranged , agreed 'questions' [with no scope for surprise grilling in proper journalistic style ], and that even then, the responses made to such questions will be subject to editing and amendment ,by the guest speaker, of any slip of the tongue that betrays that the real truth is being concealed under a load of PR crap and spin.
I may, of course, be wrong and Doncaster may have a Damascene conversion and agree to tell us the full, unadulterated truth about the 5-Way Agreement and why the Lie was felt to be necessary if such questions were to be put to him.
But I will not be holding my breath.
Finloch 29th February 2020 at 08:11
One of the problems that is heading the way of the current cobbled together pyramid system is the growing imbalance between the two halves of the current Highland and Lowland Leagues play off.
It is currently Highland v Lowland and there already is a population imbalance between the less populated north versus much of the rest of the country.
When the Glasgow and Ayrshire junior teams pile in the imbalance gets worse.
Politics are everywhere.
Add that to the fact that there is no automatic relegation from SPFL League 2 (because of a last minute double cross a few years ago) and the system is progressing at a snails pace.
And its a pity because while all the media, political, SPFL and SFA focus is on the top league and the overwhelmingly dominant Glasgow duopoly, the real future for healthy football in Scotland is local with community clubs as the foundation for everything else.
====================================
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments and they relate to a couple of questions that I emailed for the "price of football" podcast with Neil Doncaster.
I think that in time we will see the pyramid regionalise further at Tier 5 with a Lowland League West. The main blocking factor for that at the moment is the lack of licenced clubs in the West of Scotland. Assuming the the ambitious West clubs follow the lead of the former East Juniors, it should only take a couple of years for sufficient clubs to get their SFA licence and be eligible to play at tier 5. A further 6 clubs in the EOSFL had their licence applications approved this week, Bo'ness, Camelon, Haddington, Tranent, Dunipace and Newtongrange.
The alternative would be to regionalise at a higher level, should the SPFL resurrect the SPFL1 and 2 plans with maybe 30-32 clubs. That would see the SPFL become a mainly a home for full time clubs. The part time clubs in Tayside or the North East could join a league with the best of the Highland League sides, with the part time clubs in the central belt joining up with the best of the Lowland League sides.
The vested interests of the lower lights in the SPFL L1 and L2 may kybosh the latter option though, but in reality they are all community clubs, that don't have the financial muscle to progress much further than where the currently sit.
It is unusual for countries the size of Scotland to have as many as 42 clubs in national leagues, before regionalisation kicks in.
easyJambo 28th February 2020 at 23:29
……………..
Thanks for that
LUGOSI 29th February 2020 at 05:10
The evidence is in plain sight. The audio/visual transmission is there including Alex Rage commenting that the fans were in “fine voice”. It’s good that Mr Rage is not going down Super Salary Suberb Gardener’s excuse of you can’t hear anything in the dugout
……………….
Has Mr I i never played for the money. just done a SG. And thrown the ibrox fan base under a bus?
The undernoted article has just been published on pitpass.com, an F1 site. You may find some of the actions and implications alarmingly familiar. Why would Ferrari escape punishment – and be treated with such kid gloves – when someone like McLaren gets thrown to the wolves (a £100m fine for industrial espionage transgressions)?
Money and influence of course. “F1 needs a strong Ferrari”? Nothing like transparency. In fact, nothing like transparency. As someone said in connection with a very serious matter in another ‘sport’ :
“On any view the matters involved in this case are as serious offences against the ordinary standards of corporate governance as one could imagine. The Tribunal attempted in its exercise of fixing these matters on the scale of offences to identify a more serious offence than those on the complaints, and concluded that only match-fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach.”
FIA agrees controversial settlement with Ferrari
“At a time Racing Point is raising eyebrows in the F1 paddock over the legality of its car, a curious statement from the FIA in relation to Ferrari is sure to spark further controversy.
“The FIA announces that, after thorough technical investigations, it has concluded its analysis of the operation of the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 Power Unit and reached a settlement with the team,” said the sport’s governing body in a statement issued in the final moments of pre-season testing.
“The specifics of the agreement will remain between the parties,” it added.
“The FIA and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula 1 Power Units for forthcoming championship seasons as well as assist the FIA in other regulatory duties in Formula 1 and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels.”
The statement relates to investigations into Ferrari’s 2019 power unit which looked set to dominate the second half of the season until the FIA was forced to issue a number of technical directives after Red Bull – and others – questioned its legality.
Though Ferrari insisted the power unit was legal, the team’s performance subsequently dropped off, in some cases quite alarmingly.
However it is the fact that the “specifics of the agreement will remain private” between the FIA and Ferrari and that both parties have “reached a settlement” that is certain to cause reaction from rivals, for the failure to give any further insight clearly suggests that there was an issue with the legality of the power unit.
The core of the issue was fuel flow, with rivals claiming that the Maranello outfit was using a fuel sensor which allowed more fuel to be delivered to the power unit. At a time Max Verstappen openly accused Ferrari of “cheating”, the only time the Italian team was hauled up before the stewards was in Abu Dhabi when the team was fined €50,000 for incorrectly declaring how much fuel was on board Charles Leclerc’s car.”
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath (and Hearts).
redlichtie, there could be further parallels between F1 and European footy/superclubs?
It seems it's just a matter of time before there is European/World league – or franchise – for the global footy superclubs.
And as we see already in the CL group stages in particular – it will eventually become boring as hell to watch, IMO.
Likewise, I used to love watching F1 and attended a few races in the past…but in recent years it's been boring as hell, IMO.
All about marketing and money.
F1 was infinitely more exciting when even Nigel Mansell was driving…
redlichtie 29th February 2020 at 11:10 29
‘As someone said in connection with a very serious matter in another ‘sport’ :
“On any view the matters involved in this case are as serious offences against the ordinary standards of corporate governance as one could imagine. The Tribunal attempted in its exercise of fixing these matters on the scale of offences to identify a more serious offence than those on the complaints, and concluded that only match-fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach.”
%%%%%%%%%%%%
It is still unbelievable, redlichtie, that that incredibly monstrous cheating was not only not punished in any degree proportionate to the scale of it, but that the very Governance body’s deceitfulness and cheating exceeded it in gravity, poisoning the sport that they are meant to safeguard.
As said before, one cheating club is one cheating club and honest men can deal with it.
A cheating Governance body is a horse of a different colour entirely, away off the scale of corruption altogether, the very negation of all that Sport is about.
The ‘blazer and tie’ of the SFA (and any equivalent that the SPFL sports) combine as a badge of shame when worn by the scoundrels who manufactured and continue to propagate the Big Lie.
Scottish Football needs a cull of the dishonest, deceitful men in football governance .
LUGOSI 29th February 2020 at 05:10
"…Britannia Waiving The Rules…"
That's a belter, Lugosi, and needs to be recognised in isolation.
I suspect the standard of Scottish refereeing might be a hot topic this weekend.
Oh dear.
Come Monday morning the TRFC players could be queuing up to dish out some training ground retribution to a certain Colombian teammate…
Gerrard will be earning his managerial stripes if he can keep everything together for their next EL match.
Ex Ludo 29th February 2020 at 18:35 I suspect the standard of Scottish refereeing might be a hot topic this weekend.
_________________
Well, we won, so no sour grapes from me, but I presume it's the Hearts v TRFC match you are referring to. I'll start by saying the referee made bloomers in both directions but, the most ludicrous went only in one direction. There were an absolute barrowload of howlers, but the worst came with two consecutive plays, and their the aftermath, within 2 minutes.
A ball into the TRFC box was clearly handled, not once but twice, the ball going from the defender's upper arm then batted out with his hand/wrist. Decision given, corner. Cue much anger from the Hearts players, but, of course, once the decision is made there's no changing the decision.
Next, and it came as a complete surprise to me, we discover VAR must have been introduced to our game. Hearts take the corner, and Damour diverts the ball into the net and the ref gives the goal. He is surrounded by a mob in blue but appears adamant and points to the half-way line again, waving away the players, who don't go away. Then, I presume, he got word that TV evidence showed Damour had thrown the ball into the net with both hands, or, at least, that the goal shouldn't stand and indicated a free kick. Hearts were incensed, but, unbelievably, the TRFC players continued to shout and gesticulate at him
.
Now, the goal should never have been given, it was clear handball, but what on earth caused the ref to change his mind, especially in light of the fact he was immovable for what was a clear penalty two minutes earlier. I don't know. Maybe he got a call from the linesman who was in a much worse position than the ref to see it, and he missed an easier one (much less restricted view) for him to see with the penalty.
But whatever it was that made him change his mind, I doubt we'll ever hear the truth.
Now, did he get a call (from somewhere) that it had been deliberate handball by the previously booked Damour? Or was he just instructed not to give the goal? For he compounded the debacle by not booking Damour, who would then have been sent off, and deliberate handball, as even our refs must know, is an automatic booking. Unless there's something to show that, uncaught by the camera, the linesman had immediately put his flag up for handball I will find it extremely difficult to believe whatever excuse is handed out by the suits for this one.
Congratulations Aj.
I guess this latest officiating shambles will simply be added to the ever growing list of officiating shambles in Scottish football?
Nothing learned by the Scottish Referees Association, and it's just carry on as normal… and no, they don't need VAR!
On a more positive note.
That's two defeats in a month or so that TRFC have suffered from the bottom team in the Premiership, and sandwiched in between those two defeats they've twice beaten a fancied European club in Braga.
Maybe Scottish football isn't so bad after all!
But crivens, just think of the consequences for TRFC if Braga had done to them on Wednesday night what Hearts did to them tonight!
Further to my earlier posts about the pyramid below the SPFL, the West Region Junior FA appears to have gone solo in order to keep its club structure intact, but inside the pyramid. They have applied to the SFA to set up a WOSFL themselves (a rebrand?). The following email was sent out earlier today to their member clubs.
Unfortunately for the WRJFA, it's not the SFA that runs its leagues, it's the league associations themselves, e.g. the SPFL, HL, LL and SoSFL and SoSFL.
There is also the problem that the LL, EoSFL and SoSFL would have to agree to make changes to their play-off arrangements if the WRJFA was successful. The LL and EoSFL have already rejected the SJFA's attempt to retain it's autonomy within the pyramid structure.
Perhaps we'll end up with two WoSFLs, one run by the WRJFA and the other by the LL…….. perish the thought.
Is Gerrard considering his future at Ibrox? It certainly seems possible going by his comments to Rnagers TV after the game.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1233858335713173506
Rangers have previously been charged under disciplinary rule 204, which states a club must ensure that all players and staff "conduct themselves in an orderly fashion at all times during and/or after a match".
I have only seen photos from this evenings game but they suggest to me that further charges are likely to be forthcoming!
EJ, link not working or the tweet has been pulled.
easyJambo 29th February 2020 at 21:35
Is Gerrard considering his future at Ibrox? It certainly seems possible going by his comments to Rangers TV after the game.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1233858335713173506
=====================================
Apologies. There was an extra “space” or “ :” on the end of the first link.
This one works
https://twitter.com/RangersFC/status/1233858335713173506
adam812 29th February 2020 at 21:36
Rangers have previously been charged under disciplinary rule 204, which states a club must ensure that all players and staff "conduct themselves in an orderly fashion at all times during and/or after a match”
Adam, nothing counts on leap years. ‘Stuff’ happened in 2012 and apparently this year was exempt.
Gawd, we need to get over it otherwise we might believe it!
#liquidation
Any money made reaching the next stage of europe has been cancelled out by not reaching the scottish cup final and finishing the season trophyless?
Great to see Michael Stewart back on Sportscene.
That is all.
EJ, cheers for that. SG sounds despondent. If it wasn't for Europe I think he would have walked after that display today. Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and hopefully Celtic, has the making of a cracking semi-final contest.
Am I the only one that hopes that St J win tomorrow to set up a non Old Firm cup final – obviously the sponsors won’t be happy, but I believe it’ll be good for Scottish football as a whole
PS sounds like Stevie G is considering his position ….
jimbojimbo 29th February 2020 at 23:07 1 0 Rate This EJ, cheers for that. SG sounds despondent. If it wasn't for Europe I think he would have walked after that display today. Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and hopefully Celtic, has the making of a cracking semi-final contest. « Older 1 … 12 13 14
___________
Just out of pure devilment
, but imagine if it's not Celtic in the semi! Can you imagine the bear meltdown? They'd be viewing it as the biggest missed opportunity ever, with lost much needed income, and, in their minds, a lost certain (first) trophy.
In truth, tonight's result will will have taken the gloss from the Braga results, as even they must realise the Scottish Cup was their last hope of outdoing Celtic in any competition this season – and for all we know, forever.
Menace 29th February 2020 at 23:24
"…but I believe it’ll be good for Scottish football as a whole."
%%%%%%%%%%%%
Not a wise choice of words, Menace, to use to support an otherwise perfectly valid observation.
Others who have used those words have destroyed any real faith in the integrity of the game by their concerted efforts to justify their betrayal of sporting integrity!
Menace
Yes, you are
Menace 29th February 2020 at 23:24
Am I the only one that hopes that St J win tomorrow to set up a non Old Firm cup final – obviously the sponsors won’t be happy, but I believe it’ll be good for Scottish football as a whole
PS sounds like Stevie G is considering his position ….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No you are not and I agree an non Old Firm cup final would be good for the game.
Gerrard is out of order slaughtering his players yet again in the media. Megabucks spent and no success. Its not looking good for him. If TRFC could afford it they would sack him and that's what his moaning in the media is hoping to achieve, but they can't
Homunculus 29th February 2020 at 22:30
'…Great to see Michael Stewart back on Sportscene.
That is all."
%%%%%%%%
Except, of course , that I think we ought to know a wee bit more of why he was bumped, and why he can now be re-instated?
This arbitrary kind of behaviour by the BBC has to be questioned.
The Perfect Storm.
Another season without winning anything.
Gerrard giving interviews and signalling his stress/frustration levels as he frantically scratches at his head – as if ravaged by 'Rangers hating' nits.
TRFC's best / most valuable player has taken the p!ss with another extended jolly to Colombia – and managed to scoff all the pies whilst he was there!
A squad which apparently was already unsettled due to goings on at Dubai – allegedly involving a certain Colombian player – will be, erm, more unsettled today. A proper, good, old fashioned, 'clear the air' punch up is evidently required.
The bears are teetering on self combustion en masse.
AND
Off the field, everybody and their dug are suing RIFC, the team might have to play in their training bibs next season…and they have no cash… and still no Interims.
Shouldn't gloat really… too much…
Couldn't happen to a nicer club/company/thingy.
No mention of coin thrown at Hearts keeper??
Must be other more important stuff to report.
A funny week on the rangers forums. Despair and anger after St Johnstone draw then joy and triumph after midweek European results. Very angry again today after Scottish cup exit
(Semi final draw is Hearts v Hibs and Celtic v Aberdeen btw)
Bill1903, funnily enough I was thinking that line up myself! The media would love it.
Allyjambo@20.25 yesterday
I watched the first half yesterday evening and a number of weird decisions had already been made, not least the leniency shown to Ryan Jack and a failure to play advantage when Hearts were in a promising attacking position. As it turned out the incompetency continued in the second half but the final result and subsequent fall out will now deflect from a really poor refereeing performance.
'Ex Ludo 1st March 2020 at 10:19
…As it turned out the incompetency continued in the second half but the final result and subsequent fall out will now deflect from a really poor refereeing performance.'
###################
I've just watched the HoMFC TRFC highlights on Sportscene.
That wasn't 'a really poor refereeing performance' as a one-off, remarkable occurrence: that was a bog-standard, bang-average, run-of-the-mill, seemingly acceptable by the SFA, current standard performance seen at grounds around Scotland every week.
Scottish football deserves (and requires) better than that. Whither the new broom that is Crawford Allan, Head of Referee Operations?
Once again the roller coaster comedy that is Rangers* continues to dumbfound,frustrate,entertain and leave most of the audience in a state of disbelief . Gerrard has publicly hung Morelos out to dry after Morelos decided he was bigger than the club, which after many months of being told he was worth 20/30/40m by their chief propagandist is hardly a surprise. Interested parties will compare him to other SPL players and see that Cosgrove and Doidge have 11 SPL goals, Morelos has 12 and French Eddie has 21 , they will then look at disciplinary matters and how he conducts himself on and off the pitch . The fact he has been publicly bollocked by his manager would alarm most suitors to what is going on in private. Cosgrove or Morelos ? bit of a no brainer for me , how much is Cosgrove worth ? I would be staggered if anyone bids more than 5m for Morelos not least because his agent has already hinted about a low release price in his contract.
Gerrard is now considering his future , to walk away due to a QF Scottish Cup defeat while there is still a last 16 Europa tie to be fought would be a poor signal to send to future employers. Midweek sees what should be a safe 3 pts at home v Hamilton while Celtic have a very tricky away game at Livi. If the gap can be narrowed it may breathe new belief back into his squad. The crunch period comes mid month, home v Leverkusen then home v Celtic followed by the return in Germany in the space of 8 days . Gerrard looks every inch a broken man , it's a gamble to stay and further damage his credentials and it's a gamble to walk away and be labelled a bottler. The Board can't afford to sack him and can't afford to replace him with anyone but Murty and McAlister , the question is will the fans turn up for their STs with either of those 2 in charge ?
Timtim
I can see morelos doing what hooper done after leaving celtic, sitting on various benches around england
With the benefit of hindsight…
Phil's latest is suggesting that Morelos had a deal with TRFC – to be sold in January – but after the CFC win he was told the deal was off: hence he took the huff and there was hassle in Dubai.
Now, that sort of behaviour would have been a wide open secret at Dubai, and then at Murray Park and Ibrox. None of the so called 'better' SMSM journalists mentioned anything at all, so Traynor did his normal, bullying job presumably and kept a lid on it?
So, where does that leave Lambogate and Translationgate?
We thought it was a blatant PR strategy to make it seem that Morelos had 'been forced out of Scotland' and TRFC had no option but to sell him, reluctantly.
Yet, today Phil is writing that Morelos was not actually for sale.
What if the purpose of the nonsense PR was actually to generate some sympathy for Morelos – but amongst his own team mates?
If he had already p!ssed off his teammates in Dubai and was not co-operating with Gerrard because TRFC had – in his mind anyway – screwed him over, then Gerrard was looking at having his best player downing tools and disrupting the squad for the remainder of the season.
If Morelos and his family were in some sort of danger – like someone trying to tinker with your car – then your colleagues would typically rally round and give you support.
…but then again, Morelos misses the SC game at Hearts for being late back – again – so there's only one way to sort it out now: "FIIIIIIGHT!!!"
Bogs Dollox 1st March 2020 at 00:00
‘…Gerrard is out of order slaughtering his players yet again in the media.’
%%%%%%%%%%%
The really remarkable thing about Gerrard’s interview was that there was no sign of James Traynor.
I think back to the Pedro interview , with Traynor lurking threateningly in the background, and balefully cutting it short and hustling Pedro off-stage when Traynor thought the questioning had gone off message.
What has happened? Has Traynor been given his jotters?
Or has there been a realisation at Board level that the best PR aims at winning minds and hearts( no pun intended), and that the King-type aggressively and offensively blustering approach cuts no ice in those stakes? Is a degree of sanity beginning to emerge among members of the Board, such as allows them to permit some plain, honest speaking to a manager who , in fact, has (at this stage, only probably) not achieved the heart’s desire of TRFC’s support?
Earning a few millions by being in the last 16 of the EL is to his credit, certainly. But perhaps the Board believes that Gerrard really has not got what it takes to turn TRFC into anything like the defunct club they claim it to be;
and are giving Gerrard plenty of scope to work his way to a relatively cheap departure from Ibrox by friendly, mutual consent and good wishes for the future..?
The chaps on Sportsound this afternoon were crediting Gerrard with ‘principle’ because he disciplined Morelos by not playing him yesterday.
Far be it from me to dismiss ‘acting on principle’ , but instant disciplinary action in the knowledge that you’re only weakening your already weakened team immediately before really important match suggests a rashness and inopportune exercise of principle.
Morelos might have made a huge difference.
His disciplining could have waited, and Gerrard showed a catastrophic lack of judgment that to me probably indicates that at present he is not of first class calibre as a manager, and perhaps will never be.
John Clark
If you want to keep a dressing room you have to treat everyone the same otherwise it will end up chaos
tony 1st March 2020 at 15:54
'..you have to treat everyone the same otherwise it will end up chaos.'
%%%%%%%%%%%%
I accept that principle, of course, tony.
I wasn't suggesting that Morelos should not be disciplined; simply that punishment of the guilty should be deferred until a time when it would not also be a punishment for the 'innocent'.
Mind you, in the light of what StevieC says in his post at 15.06 above, perhaps with a player as unpredictable and temperamental as Morelos, normal reasoning doesn't apply, even if dealing with him as he deserves might cost you]
John Clark 1st March 2020 at 15:48
PMGB is suggesting that Morelos returned to his homeland, not on compassionate grounds, but in the huff. Twice! Once 'en route' to Dubai and once in the lead up to yesterday's match.
Regardless, though, of the accuracy of PMGB's account (and I'm not questioning it), it does seem more than a little strange that any player would be allowed to travel half-way round the world at a time when the space between the last match and the next one he'd be available for, a very important one, is only six days.
If he did b*gger off in the huff then I'd suggest Gerrard was 100% right to leave him out, for I very much doubt he could be trusted to try a leg, and his fitness would surely be in serious doubt.
Interestingly, unless I've missed it, there's been no word on why he required 'compassionate leave' which is rather strange, there's not even been an attempt to make up a reason, such as family illness/death. Looks to me like the Morelos/TRFC love affair may well be over and the club is resigned to losing him – and not for as much as they (realistically) hoped for.
Strange Billy Nimmo Smith thought more money does not confer a sporting advantage??
As the four wealthiest clubs in Scotland reach the SC Semi Finals
Bogs Dollox 1st March 2020 at 00:00
………………
Maybe they will resign him
Told you semi final draw earlier
When is the draw for ends or do certain teams have their own ends?
Bill1903 1st March 2020 at 09:28
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No mention of coin thrown at Hearts keeper??
…………………
should be in the refs report after the keeper handed him the coin.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51697305
StevieBC 1st March 2020 at 15:06
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With the benefit of hindsight…
Phil’s latest is suggesting that Morelos had a deal with TRFC – to be sold in January –
……………..
You can only sell if someone is willing to buy. maybe the deal was off as no one put a bid in.
normanbatesmumfc 1st March 2020 at 17:30
''…Strange Billy Nimmo Smith thought more money does not confer a sporting advantage??'
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
I sincerely hope that none of his judgments as an actual judge in Court were so extraordinarily bizarre!
https://twitter.com/dw_sports/status/1233889687841824768?s=21
Dramatic.
Ex Ludo 1st March 2020 at 21:33
https://twitter.com/dw_sports/status/1233889687841824768?s=21
Dramatic.
============================
There have been plenty other similarly offensive banners, sectarian and racist actions by fans in several countries, yet none have generated similar actions by the referees and players. Why?
Ex Ludo
When did a referee get the power to stop a game for a banner, ridiculous imho
easyJambo 1st March 2020 at 21:39
‘..sectarian and racist actions by fans in several countries, yet none have generated similar actions by the referees and players. Why? ‘
%%%%%%%%%
As I understand the rubbishy reporting, Hopp is being targeted for abuse for football related reasons first and foremost ,as having been allowed the privilege of departing from the norm when it comes to majority ownership of a club ,as part of an attack on the German equivalent of the SFA for its readiness to accommodate the equivalent of an SDM or MBMB!
It is , of course, abhorrent that the attack should have racist or whatever characteristics. Whatever Hopp may have done ‘wrong’ in football business he will have done as an individual human baddie, not because he may be a ‘foreigner’ or of another ‘ethnicity’; any more than SDM’s cheating was because he is a Scotsman!
[And I have to say that I have a wee grudge against Karl Heinz Rummennige : not because he’s German, but because he is ill-mannered enough not to reply to my letter to him of some considerable time ago, questioning why ,as Chairman of the ECA, he allowed TRFC to be regarded as having been a founder member of that Association]
https://tradingeconomics.com/south-africa/stock-market?embed
https://za.investing.com/equities/micromega-holdings-ltd-chart
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=ZAR&to=GBP&view=1Y
A little insight into the state of the market where King is concerned , the Sth African stock market is down over 11% , his own company Micromega down almost 30% since January and the Rand taking a beating against the £. With King having a 5m loan to RIFC he may be one of the first to call payment should the economic downturn continue to affect his business. Of course he is not alone should the economy worsen , most companies may experience issues if a liquidity crisis occurs. In that scenario institutions stop lending and debts are called in , I'm sure everything will be fine , well reasonably sure .
Timtim 2nd March 2020 at 00:41
==========================
That’s quite a significant move in terms of Micromega (now called Sebata Holdings)
At a share price of ZAR 2.30, and at the current exchange rate of 20.19 ZAR to the GBP, then Sebata is only valued at £13.1m with King’s stake via Laird Investments worth £8.3m. That is meant to be King’s primary investment and source of wealth within South Africa.
It also makes any lending or investments that King makes reliant on his own and his family’s offshore wealth. I think we could see him try to sell his 25.6% stake in RIFC before too long.
https://twitter.com/ftamsut/status/1234070306228183042?s=21
The other side of the Bannergate argument.
@EJ
King selling his stake in RIFC is crucial not just to raise capital for himself but to distance his cold shoulder toxicity from Ibrox. Even if he stands down from the board as long as he has significant amount of shares he will exert his influence and control or at least be seen to have that ability . The problem for the rest of the board is who buys them . The shares valued at 20p is similar to Morelos valued at 20m both have a going concern warning , their real value is far far lower and nobody wants to buy them.
Timtim 2nd March 2020 at 00:41
Great investigative bampottery, Timtim. Pity the 'journalists' of the SMSM aren't of the same standard.
If yesterday's talk of Morelos, Gerrard, Cup exit etc was considered an indication of the Perfect Storm brewing, then that storm just got closer to perfection.
Imagine a loss making business seeing income streams diminishing while awaiting a court order(s) to pay massive damages, to then discover it's major investor, and biggest creditor, has just seen 30% knocked off the value of his main legitimate* source of funds…then imagine if that investor/creditor's only known alternative legitimate* source of substantial funds (sell (unsaleable?) shares and/or recall loan) was tied up in that loss making business!
*Legitimate in that the SA authorities know of these investments.
Timtim 2nd March 2020 at 09:49 @EJ King selling his stake in RIFC is crucial not just to raise capital for himself but to distance his cold shoulder toxicity from Ibrox. Even if he stands down from the board as long as he has significant amount of shares he will exert his influence and control or at least be seen to have that ability . The problem for the rest of the board is who buys them . The shares valued at 20p is similar to Morelos valued at 20m both have a going concern warning , their real value is far far lower and nobody wants to buy them.
________________-
Unfortunately (and not just for TRFC, but for investors everywhere) it's not just Micromega that's losing value rapidly, and not only King of the RIFC board who will be seeing his own portfolio rapidly diminishing in value. I wonder how many potential investors in a football club would, at a time like this, choose to invest in a loss making business rather than direct their available capital at a business with a profit making history.
@AJ the loss for Micromega (Sebata) in 12 months is over 60% , I cannot think why anyone would bother robbing him at gun point as he is clearly impecunious after all. King has clearly gone all in on Gerrard delivering success and flogging his shares to any gullible daft enough to buy them. It's all falling apart rapidly and his media lapdogs have the dog whistle primed and ready , today it looks like Alfredo's fault . King really has shot himself in the foot this time .
@AJ your last point is extremely relevant , this is a global crisis not one that just affects King . I believe the market has been ready to implode for a long time now and only QE and zero rates have stopped it . This Chinese flu is the perfect squirrel to deflect from the real architects of this crime, the parasitical bankers and money men that have bled us dry.
I'm trying to educate myself on the Hopp story.
This link gives an interesting bit of background
https://www.theguardian.com/football/englische-woche/2016/feb/26/hoffenheim-bundesliga-germany-julian-nagelsmann
My eye was drawn to this para. Somehow it reminded me of another unpleasant would-be bully boy in football:
"In German football the issue of tradition carries a lot of weight. Clubs will often be referred to by commentators, players and journalists as a “Traditionsverein” a badge of honour. In contrast, clubs such as Hoffenheim, and latterly RB Leipzig and, to a lesser extent, FC Ingolstadt, are generally tarnished as “plastic” clubs who are often reviled by opposing fans and even coaches and managers. As Hoffenheim became more prominent, so too did the scrutiny. Hopp was constantly forced to bat away comparisons with Roman Abramovich, arguing, and rightly so, that the Russian had not spent 15 years in Chelsea’s youth set-up. Things became so bad that Hopp felt compelled to write a letter to German football association demanding that the open “discrimination” towards his team be treated with the same consequences as racism."
There is a lot of resentment towards Hopp but he has certainly put his money where is mouth is. From my point of view it draws comparisons with Gretna and the late Brookes Mileson although on a much grander scale.
Ex Ludo 2nd March 2020 at 11:28
'…there is a lot of resentment towards Hopp but he has certainly put his money where is mouth is."
%%%%%%%%%%%%
The 'accusation' against Hopp is that like certain UK football people he has been involved in 'tejemanejes' ( translated as 'shady dealings') and has bought/bullied his way into unacceptable and undemocratic influence in German football.
Not, of course, that I think your post is implying anything other than that Miles spent heavily (and rashly!) in his push behind Gretna.
There was no hint of him using his personal wealth to suborn people in football governance or to make them his stooges, ready to yield to his wishes: as a football governance body nearer home was ready to do for a 'plastic' club.
Timtim 2nd March 2020 at 11:10
… I believe the market has been ready to implode for a long time now and only QE and zero rates have stopped it . This Chinese flu is the perfect squirrel to deflect from the real architects of this crime, the parasitical bankers and money men that have bled us dry.
===============
Absolutely, Timtim.
Could be a 'convenient' opportunity to allow the markets to correct themselves…
JohnClark@12.30
No slight on Mr Mileson’s legacy or memory intended JC. Perhaps a fairer comparison would be Sir Elton John’s involvement withWatford FC?
Timtim 2nd March 2020 at 09:49
King selling his stake in RIFC….
I was told, just before Christmas, that his shares were being hawked round various “high net worth individuals” in Scotland and Hong Kong. The asking price was 27p per share – yes that’s twenty-seven pence each. A cool 18m all in although he’s willing to sell to a syndicate. Apparently this not to be missed, once in a lifetime investment opportunity, found no takers back then.
Although my source was a wealthy individual my cynical, none gullible, self doubted the story. Besides which I’m a bit low on funds at the moment.
Allyjambo 2nd March 2020 at 10:48
Unfortunately (and not just for TRFC, but for investors everywhere) it's not just Micromega that's losing value rapidly, and not only King of the RIFC board who will be seeing his own portfolio rapidly diminishing in value. I wonder how many potential investors in a football club would, at a time like this, choose to invest in a loss making business rather than direct their available capital at a business with a profit making
…………………………………………….
Good point AJ, however, what if said "investors" are not invested elsewhere, but are "cash rich" and only cash rich because they are unable to invest in legitimate investments due to money-laundering issues.
Ailing football business could be the ideal opportunity for such an "investor", especially if generous pennies in the pound returns are agreed.
Couldn't happen in Scotland of course, not with the SFA's microscopic oversight of all things financial in our (whiter than white) game?????
Micromega (Sebata Holdings) are down 8.7% so far today (from 230 to 210) and have a bearish trend marker from analysts, in laymans terms King just had €1m wiped off his personal holding with more losses expected.
https://za.investing.com/equities/micromega-holdings-ltd-chart
Timtim 2nd March 2020 at 14:19
Thanks for the update, Timtim, changed my mind about my first overseas investment in Micromega
will nip down to the bookies instead
Sadly, while we are amused by the thought of that nasty piece of work King's losses I'm sure a great many honest and decent South African people will be losing out, too.
normanbatesmumfc 2nd March 2020 at 13:34
Dishonestly gained money at Ibrox, Norman B, to seek a financially driven sporting advantage? Will never catch on
https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/1234503838117306368?s=21
Change of plan? Really?
Yes Michael Stewart is missing on Sportsound. Never mind we have Darryl -I am the SFA – Broadfoot!
jimbo 2nd March 2020 at 18:13
''..Never mind we have Darryl -I am the SFA – Broadfoot!"
%%%%%%%%%%%
I was quite surprised , jimbo, when only Darryl took the view that not playing Morelos was a big mistake.
And the way the discussion went suggested to me that Morelos has no friends among the rest of the playing squad, and that Gerrard caved in to their wishes that Morelos should not play.
Gerrard might therefore have been in a bit of a cleft stick- play Morelos and lose the rest of the team, or don't play Morelos and lose at the very least the psychological advantage of his name appearing on the team sheet, and possibly a belated show of brilliance!
The dressing room at Ibrox cannot be a very happy place.
And I canny say that I'm happy at agreeing with Darryl, as I did the other day.
I see that Keith Jackson's piece in today's Daily Record has been targetted as a not so subtle plagiarism of Phil MacGiollaBhain's recent reporting in re Frodo.
When you read the piece it's obvious there's nothing subtle about it.
Interestingly it seems Oor Keef is an Equal Opportunity Plagiarist as his piece includes a mangled lift from an article Ian Archer wrote in the Glasgow Herald over forty years ago.
Ian Archer: "As a Scottish football club they are a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace."
Keith Jackson: "An occasional inspiration but a permanent pain in the arse."
Lack of space must have prevented Keef from providing the next line from Ian Archer.
"This country would be a better place if Rangers did not exist."
I concur.
Ditto T'Rangers.
John, yes I laughed at DB being outnumbered about 3-1 in his opinion. The rest thought Stevie G was correct to stand by his principles by not playing Morelos. Broadfoot reckoned the importance of the game ahead was more important than doing the right thing.
Why does that not surprise me? Sounds like a Hampden way of thinking.
LUGOSI 2nd March 2020 at 19:11
Ian Archer: “As a Scottish football club they are a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace.”
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1234573395683049473/photo/1
A bit OT.
Just clicked on an AD, just to see how much.
How Much Is OxyBreath Pro?
It’s now only £37.99 (was £75.98, currently 50% discount).
At £37.99 a pop, how long before Mr king with an ibrox crest on it see’s there is money to be made,and it could be outwith Ashleys matching rights;-)
Cluster One
Special discount for ra bears, £16.90
Did any of the Jambos on here have the misfortune to read Graeme Swann's "report" of the Hearts – The rangers game in the beano today?
Over 2 pages and a good few hundred words he mentions Hearts twice and has no descriptive passages about the game. It was all about sevco's woes. Even though 2 and a half pages in the back of the comic had already been allocated to same.
No wonder the sales figures are below k100 sales per day.
HS
Higgy's Shoes 2nd March 2020 at 21:37 Did any of the Jambos on here have the misfortune to read Graeme Swann's "report" of the Hearts – The rangers game in the beano today? Over 2 pages and a good few hundred words he mentions Hearts twice and has no descriptive passages about the game. It was all about sevco's woes. Even though 2 and a half pages in the back of the comic had already been allocated to same. No wonder the sales figures are below k100 sales per day. HS
__________
I've not got a problem when a TRFC supporting hack fills two pages bemoaning his club's 'misfortunes'. It's certainly referable to them singing their club's praises, as they do at every opportunity or imagined/invented opportunity. I view it as no more than yet another indication of a coming Perfect Storm
I'd suggest that the question should be; are they (the hacks) being orchestrated by you know who, or are they beginning to write what they actually believe/suspect? If it's the former, then something is afoot, if it's the latter, then they (the hacks) are doing what fans with typewriters always do. Pointing the finger of blame to avoid facing the reality of their club's distress.
wrt Morelos, I believe he'll be back in the team on Wednesday, complete with a 'puff piece' that SG has sorted him out, and that all in the garden is rosy (misunderstanding, misunderstood etc etc).
In other words, there is a transfer fee to be got in the summer for him (£20m? more like £5m)
WRT speculation on what is behind current media comment and what may well be heading our way, I think we should start considering what the reaction to a Rangers* financial implosion should be.
I think there is a serious danger of the parties involved agreeing an admin and football “pre-pack” that extends the continuity lie.
The previous club wreaked financial and reputational havoc on Scottish Football and the new club is clearly cut from the same (but new!) cloth.
Why should other clubs struggle to compete with the financially doped who then shed their skin and assume an undeserved position in Scottish Football?
Are we heading for a season-end drama with all of the various court and other threads coming together and culminating in the plug being pulled? It wisnae us, it wis a’ thon big boys……
What are the implications should this happen and just what can be done by fans?
“No to Sevco 2”? Season ticket boycott? What else? Are there any legal steps that can be taken to thwart us being steamrollered again?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
AJ,
Like yourself, I don't have a problem with a journalist who wants to write a piece about the trials and tribulations of his/her club
But, Graeme Swann was the records man reporting on the match. This he did not do. The pull out sections of the newspapers are traditionally where most of the match reports appear (unless a club is playing on a Sunday e.g. Celtic yesterday). He should have written a separate article and it should have appeared on the back pages.
If I wasn't at the game yesterday and couldn't watch Sportscene I would have had no idea what happened during the match if all I relied on was the match report in the record. Not even a mention of Steve Mclean's performance.
Any attempt at administration even as a pre-pack of TRFC (SC425159) will have to be after Close Brothers have been paid off. Otherwise they will totally control everything especially as they will have power of attorney over TRFC. At the moment I cannot see a “Satisfaction of Charge” notification on the Companies House website.
Do they have the funds to pay off Close Brothers? Also don’t forget the very litigious Mr Ashley.
The latest Morelosgate is an interesting one , I think Gerrard was right not to play him but wrong to say in public why he was being left out . I've said before about his release clause and the 20-30m valuations were aimed at attracting investment , making King's shareholding more attractive to buyers and/or appeasing creditors. Gerrards statement has certainly put a dent in that fantasy but it does put the blame on Morelos should he be sold in the future for his release clause price . The 30m valuations weren't working and were becoming a point of ridicule anyway , even some supporters are accepting they will be lucky to get 5m for him now and they should sell him asap so a little victory for the ministry of propaganda with that one. Morelos tho is on a long contract with high wages and should the sulk continue and the lbs pile up he will be tricky to shift and his presence will continue to undermine the squad . Tedermeatballs piece today was a no holds barred attack on Morelos so this whole situation may be orchestrated by King and Traynor to deflect criticism onto a handy scapegoat …..they do have previous . They will know if there is progress in Europe or any hope left for the league before March pay day arrives , Beware the Ides of March it tolls for thee …..as the saying goes
@Giovanni
They also have 5m owing to King and we don't know the exact terms and conditions of that loan except it is interest bearing and cannot be converted to worthless shares , the Close loan is a minimum of 4m , SDI could be 7-10m , Memorial Walls want 1.3m and Hummel and Elite will want a few million for their troubles as well. I have lost track of what is outstanding regards transfer fees . Is there still a shortfall to finish the season ? Long term contracts on big money were handed out in the hope they could sell players for big bucks or be compensated same for EPL clubs snapping up Gerrard and his backroom team .
redlichtie, IMHO, in addition to death and taxes there are 2 other certainties;
– the SFA is a stoopid organisation, has learned b*gger all since 2012, and is destined to repeat its mistakes, ad infinitum, as the sports governing body
&
– the 'next version of a 5WA' – to accommodate another Ibrox club/company continuation lie – has already been agreed.
(And probably agreed when Lawwell was away on holiday – or when he had 'a problem receiving emails and/or attachments' or some other concocted BS.)
I still think the possibility of an administration remains remote. Yes it is possible to offload the high earners, some onerous contracts could be broken and legal obligations ended, but the SFA/SPFL will insist that all football creditors are paid in full. As a group, the football creditors will be the largest creditors in any event, because of the outstanding transfer installments, so would make an insolvency event, including a pre-pack, quite marginal in terms of viability.
easyJambo 3rd March 2020 at 00:41
================
A couple of Celtic bloggers seem convinced their day of reckoning under UEFA FFP is on the horizon. How close is this really though, and how much of an involvement would the SFA need to have? Last year they released unqualified interim accounts basically saying 'aye, we're doing great, we're worth millions', and they sailed through the licence award process. Their audited accounts said they needed millions to get to the end of this season! Also, to what extent can they keep diluting existing shares and issuing new ones to offset debt? Why couldn't the mega rich Man City owners not just do that?
If it requires the SFA to start the FFP process we can forget it ever happening. Look at what they were prepared to overlook in 2011, and still are, even though their own process says there is a case to answer.
One thing I can’t understand is that according to the SFA there is no appetite, with the clubs, for a local FFP in Scotland. Why is that? Surely it would put the brakes on what is happening at Ibrox every year.
Likewise we are led to believe there is no hunger for Strict Liability in Scotland. Now that one I can just about understand. There are a few clubs who could be in trouble with that one. At least in the short term until their fans learned to behave.
As has been said many times the suits at Hampden are a parcel of rouges, but the clubs are not much better! They are one and the same in many ways.
AvatarHiggy's Shoes 2nd March 2020 at 22:51 AJ, Like yourself, I don't have a problem with a journalist who wants to write a piece about the trials and tribulations of his/her club But, Graeme Swann was the records man reporting on the match. This he did not do. The pull out sections of the newspapers are traditionally where most of the match reports appear (unless a club is playing on a Sunday e.g. Celtic yesterday). He should have written a separate article and it should have appeared on the back pages. If I wasn't at the game yesterday and couldn't watch Sportscene I would have had no idea what happened during the match if all I relied on was the match report in the record. Not even a mention of Steve Mclean's performance.
_____________
Totally agree with you about the 'match report' not being what it should be, but this has been the case for such a very long time, so long, in fact, that it was the case even on the last occasion I picked up a newspaper, and that was genuinely many years ago.
It used to be the case that we would read an almost kick by kick report, with description of how a player beat another with wordy descriptions of goals and saves, but many years ago that changed to an almost verbatim report of the post match interviews, match statistics etc, but no description of the actual play.
I also find radio commentary is quite similar with the commentators constantly giving their opinion on what's previously happened rather than describing the ongoing action, who has the ball, and where it is now.
I think it may just be the case that decent match reports and descriptive radio commentary are beyond the modern day newspaper and radio sports hacks to such an extent that they can provide little more than their own, or the interviewees', opinions of what's happened rather than actual descriptions of the football on show.
As to the case in point, I suspect Jim Traynor cares very little about Hearts and that mentioning them in handouts won't further his current agenda, whatever that might be. Get rid of Gerrard or Morelos? Or both?
easyJambo 3rd March 2020 at 00:41 I still think the possibility of an administration remains remote. Yes it is possible to offload the high earners, some onerous contracts could be broken and legal obligations ended, but the SFA/SPFL will insist that all football creditors are paid in full. As a group, the football creditors will be the largest creditors in any event, because of the outstanding transfer installments, so would make an insolvency event, including a pre-pack, quite marginal in terms of viability.
_____________
Surely what you are describing here is a planned administration as part of a rescue plan, to drop debt and carry on in their traditional carefree manner. But what if they have no choice? What if their debts are as bad as many suspect and they are hit with the anticipated damages? All it will take is for one creditor to demand a repayment RIFC/TRFC cannot make and, unless there is someone in the wings with a large wallet and no brains, administration would surely follow.
I know we've been here before, many times, and I'm sure you have put together a fairly accurate assessment of their current finances with which to gauge the possibility of survival, but they are a club/business that has been on the verge of insolvency throughout their whole history and have only survived these repeated crisis points with crisis loans. At some point it has to be the case that without a new sugar daddy the loans will dry up and an insolvency event becomes inevitable.
I totally agree with you that it's not in the club's best interest, or not as great an advantage as might otherwise be the case, to go into a voluntary administration due to the problems you describe, but it might be the case that it's better to jump into administration than it is to wait until pushed into one in which they might not have as much control. Of course, that doesn't mean they will jump.
@AJ Spot on, they have made a pre pack almost impossible due to the nature of the debts accumulated and the last thing they want is an admin event as it does little to help. As you say , administration isn't always a choice sometimes it is enforced by others demanding payment in the way David Murray did with Airdrie . "Nothing personal, it's just business" is what he said . The bottom line is if nobody writes the cheque it's game over. The Directors should also be aware that it is an offence to continue trading while insolvent and they can be held personally liable . It won't take much , a stadium closure for the naughty song book may just be enough for example.
Talk of a "pre-pack admin" has me wondering if the constant can-kicking in the SDI case re. quantum of damages, is a deliberate tactic to get them to a specific point in the season?
If I was Mike Ashley, I would have my legal team ready and prepared to serve a winding up petition, as soon as the "damages" award is announced, specifically to stop any attempted pre-pack going ahead.
As others have said, there would be many other issues and implications, (secured debt, football debts etc.) of the pre-pack route, but history tells us the relevant money men will be able to slither through any loopholes, shafting as many creditors as possible, while minimizing the damage to the team on the pitch.
They will do what needs to be done to remain within the bendiest of boundaries of the law, safe in the knowledge the footballing authorities will do everything in their evil powers to facilitate a soft landing. The other clubs will look the other way as usual.
Who knows, it might all come down to a supporter boycott again, however the problem this time would be Celtic going for the holy grail of ten-in-a-row and the likelihood of their support seeing this as more important than accepting Third 2angers into the Premiership. Would the other clubs fans care enough to rebel against the repeated corruption and even if they did, would the omnipotent blazers give a toss?
Intriguing times ahead…….
Allyjambo 3rd March 2020 at 09:30
easyJambo 3rd March 2020 at 00:41
As usual EJ points towards what would be the sensible option given the 'known' state of the Ibrox finances. However, as we have found over the years there is always a 'unknown' (or 2, 3, 4…) that finds its way into the accounts to eat up any new income stream, from things like this season's decent Euro run.
Perhaps now that King appears to have taken his foot of the gas a few sensible heads in the Blue Room will manage the situation better but I've yet to be convinced. The hubris and action of the man from South Africa may have left them with a very poor state of affairs to deal with.
Gerrard and his staff will be costing a fair bit, Kent cost £7m (a panic buy) and isn't showing any decent return for that outlay and similarly with the likes of Davis and Defoe, who are no doubt on good money, aren't contributing too much as age and injury starts catching up with them. The whole Morelos saga makes it less likely he will go for a decent transfer fee. Worse case scenario is the Colombian going nowhere fast and sitting doing nothing and taking his wage, which appears to have gone up year on year.
Even if it doesn't go down the financial toilet, on the pitch it looks like summer will have to be another review and rebuild job. That doesn't really help in terms of trying to build consistency and progress in terms of performance. On that basis domestic trophies and Euro success may well take another kicking.
PS in terms of press reporting of Saturdays Quarter final, in a hard copy, I saw Graham Spiers had a wee column in the Times yesterday with a title implying it was going to be about Hearts success but after one and a half paragraphs it all turned to discussing T'Rangers woes.
T'was always thus.
Exracted from The GT;
"[Gerrard] I am all in, I signed up to something here and I knew there would be real setbacks and this is when the club needs me most to stay on, fight and push forward on the progress we have made in a lot of areas whilst learning to ensure the mistakes don't happen again.
"I self-reflect, what I can and need to do better. I think if you want to survive at this level you have to bounce back."
…
Gerrard added: "Alfredo Morelos is available for selection, he has been disciplined internally and accepted this and we move forward. "It is important we are not stubborn here and we move on after these situations are dealt with strongly which it has been."
================
Hmmm…
Well, I suppose he is still a rookie manager, but the drama he created about his own future doesn't reflect well on him, IMO. A bit of attention seeking? He shouldn't have said anything after the Hearts match – except maybe just to apologise to the TRFC supporters?
IF TRFC bounces back immediately, and starts playing decent, winning footy – and Morelos keeps his nose clean and scores goals – then Gerrard might just ride this storm out.
BUT, that is also dependent on Morelos doing what he's told on and off the park – and Morelos making an effort to improve his relationship with his team mates…
I'd guess it will all kick off again anyway – just as soon as TRFC is punted out of the EL.
I’ve often read pieces on other platforms which are very similar to posts from here which have been posted days or weeks previously.
For example, I thought Phil’s piece of a few days ago & Keith Jackson’s of yesterday both contained ‘information’ (as they’re journalists I’d expect they’ve confirmed it elsewhere) very similar to what I’d posted as ‘speculation’ (I’m not a journalist, have zero resources apart from an enquiring mind and Google & am a poster-boy for Traynor’s ‘keyboard-clatterer & internet bampot’ meme etc.) on 14.02.20 on this board (page 7, if you’re interested!).
I don’t mind (much), but it’s obvious that others are mining contributions here & elsewhere to satisfy their need for content. In some ways, it’s a compliment…
The problem with speculation over the finances is that none of us knows the actual situation.
The last information published by the club came with the RIFC and TRFC accounts. They are only a snapshot taken at a given date, in this case 30 June 2019, so are already eight months out of date.
The post balance sheet information generally gives a better indication of the direction of travel, borrowing requirements, contingent liabilities etc., but even that is four months out of date.
Has their financial situation got worse over those four months? I would say no, mainly down to their Europa League success. Ryan Kent was only signed after they qualified for the group stages, so to some extent that transfer fee was covered by what was most likely un-budgeted EL income.
The big uncertainty is about funding the forecast deficit. We know that King put up £5m, but the anticipated new share issue hasn't materialised as yet. It may be that they have secured further shareholder loans, but we just don't know.
Should an insolvency event occur, it will almost certainly be the result of simply running out of cash to pay day to day bills, rather than a debt dumping exercise. However if the shortage is £1m or £2m, I would expect their previous backers to step up to the plate once again.
I think the litigation issues with SDI and others are several months away from being finalised with court dates still to be scheduled and the potential for appeals to follow, so there should be no unexpected bills to be funded this side of the financial year end. By that time we will be into a new round of funding with STs, transfer fees and EL qualifying games all being factored in.
It is indeed a perplexing conundrum: just how does RIFC/TRFC manage to keep limping along?
And back to my hobby horse…
we observed recently that a few hacks stuck their heads above the parapet to make negative comments about Traynor and his malignant influence over Scottish football.
Yet, unless I missed it, I’ve not seen one reference at all in the SMSM sports or business sections about the expected / overdue Interims from Ibrox.
And separately,
as another Bampot [?] alluded to previously, it seems that the unaudited Interims would also be provided to the SFA as ‘financial proof’ to support the Ibrox club’s European licence application for next season? I don’t know this for sure, so can anyone here add any substance?
easyJambo 3rd March 2020 at 11:28
You are, of course, totally correct that we are mostly speculating here and that the EL success will have gone some way to shoring up the sales they didn't make, but only time will tell if it was enough to make up for the £5m shortfall from the £10m requirement that King's loan partially covered. We also have to remember, though, that participation in European competition costs money and that bonuses will have been earned, probably quite considerable though most likely not due for payment until the end of the season depending on (individual?) contracts.
I suspect it may come down to whether or not they can repay, then renew at possibly/probably an increased quantum, the Close Bros loan, and that might depend on whether or not they can up the security. Is the loan not due for repayment this month?
Despite all that I say here, I do suspect they will somehow survive until they can start spending next season's ST money to start the cycle all over again, in all likelihood going through it a month earlier than last year.
@Jingso
you mention other bloggers mining information here, as you say it is a compliment ,this is from todays JohnJames article,
CS King is trying to punt his shares at 27p to prop up his hollowed out hulk Sebata Holdings PTE Limited which is dropping faster than the socks used to inflate the ‘egos’ of the Dubai carousers. It has lost 60% on the JSE since CS King gave it his full attention.
Nice to know JJ pops in here and hangs on our every word.
Timtim, That's exactly what I thought when I read that. Where have I read that before?
Just thought I’d mention in the passing (since it’s quiet!), there’s an Edinburgh Derby on tonight. I will keep an ear on it with our National Broadcaster. Hopefully ably assisted by expert punditry. Like Michael Stewart and Willie Miller.
I have just thought of a solution to the Coranvirus panic. If things get worse, put all domestic competitions on hold until eg. June. Cancel the Euros, EL and CL for next season to ease the congestion.
How do you think that would go down with UEFA?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51720125
Them good ol' boys at the SFA! So the Scotland manager travelling is "an unnecessary risk", but Petrie and Maxwell can't do without their jolly, so they will represent the SFA at the draw in Amsterdam.
Nawlite@15.29
Have the SFA not heard of t’internet. The whole thing will be broadcast round the world and once the draw is made a wee conference call/Skype is arranged to sort out the details. Perhaps the SFA are so acclimatised to self isolation that another 14 days is neither here nor there.
nawlite 3rd March 2020 at 15:29
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51720125
Them good ol’ boys at the SFA! So the Scotland manager travelling is “an unnecessary risk”, but Petrie and Maxwell can’t do without their jolly, so they will represent the SFA at the draw in Amsterdam.
============
With declining attendances and sponsorships combined with increasing apathy towards the national team…
there should be austerity front and centre at the SFA Hampden offices.
Travel related costs are typically one of the first budgets to be slashed when times are tough.
…and why does the SFA think it needs to fund the salaries/expenses for both a CEO and, in effect, an ‘Executive President’?
It should be for one or the other.
Apparently the Sun today 'understands' that the SFA will finally make a decision within weeks on whether to refer the 2011 Rangers European Licence issue to CAS. Surely nobody now seriously believes there is even a slight chance the case will be referred? The Celtic Board now officially don't care, the rest of the clubs have never cared, and the media have never cared either. It's a completely open door for the SFA to push at.
Interims ? are they overdue ? last year they were out late February but in the previous years it was mid to late March before they saw the light of day so maybe there is no reason to sound the alarm bell just yet . Being unaudited and prepared by Mr King I'm not sure if there will be much valid information to take from them . Gerrard tho is back and wonders what all the fuss about him walking away is about as he never hinted at such a thing. Alfie has taken to twitter to state that he has taken his gripe water and the windies and burpees from the backroom nanny has worked a treat and he's going to be good for ever and ever. So everything in the garden is rosy once again . I'm not sure who exactly translated Alfie's tweet for him unless of course his crash course in English has been an unrivalled success. As the rollercoaster continues on its journey I expect a 5-0 thrashing of Hamilton with a Galactico hat trick followed by an open top bus parade then defeat at Ross County and someone seeing red ……….again.
I see that the SFA's new interpretation of it being ok to stand on someone lying on the ground has been put into practice by Kevin Clancy.
https://mobile.twitter.com/_heartsreport/status/1234933305822322694
EJ, a straight red. That's one for the compliance officer tomorrow.
Jimbo@20.43
All the Hibs guy needs to do is cite the Morelos precedent and with one bound he’ll be free. Ironically had he chosen to bound instead of stamp then no harm would have been done to his opponent.
StevieBC 3rd March 2020 at 15:52
…and why does the SFA think it needs to fund the salaries/expenses for both a CEO and, in effect, an ‘Executive President’?
==================
Why do you think anyone from that self serving, corrupt cabal would ever stop and think of being accountable to anyone. An utter disgrace of an organisation.
The Ibrox PR people ,or whoever it is who feeds Gerrard his lines just cannot avoid building in some Traynorist aggression .
Halliday(back page) in today's hard-copy of the 'Scotsman' quotes Gerrard as saying that he will not depart of his own volition….
" before I kicked a ball as a professional with Liverpool, it was a dream to win with Liverpool. I sacrificed my life [FFS!] to do that and when I signed on the dotted line to represent Rangers as the leader of this team ,that's what I committed to.You will see smiles, you will see emotion… you will see me going over the top…..You know what? Get used to it!" (snarl?)
What meaningless drivel, from a snow flake of a football manager who has clearly lost the dressing-room to his mediocrities having first lost control over a prima donna of a sulky wean.
Just a funny, [to me anyway
], wee story here;
=========
“…Rare football shirt stolen from National Football Museum returned”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-51729113
=========
It has to be one of the ugliest footy tops to have ever graced the Scottish top league!
It’s easy to see why the ‘thief’ didn’t want to keep it.
It should have been burned not returned…
‘John Clark 4th March 2020 at 09:03
The Ibrox PR people ,or whoever it is who feeds Gerrard his lines just cannot avoid building in some Traynorist aggression .
Halliday(back page) in today’s hard-copy of the ‘Scotsman’ quotes Gerrard as saying that he will not depart of his own volition…’
##############################
I note that Gerrard has said that he has had a ‘one-to-one’ with Morelos. Are we to assume that Gerrard’s proficiency in rudimentary Spanish (or Colombian-dialect Spanish) is at least as good as Morelos’ reported ‘rudimentary’ understanding of Scouse/English? Another one to mark down in the ‘Aye, right, so ye did!’ column. (Incidentally, I don’t see another native Spanish speaker in the TRFC squad. I know that Candeias was Morelos’ translator when he was there. Who does it now? One of Morelos’ representatives, an outsider in the dressing-room?)
As for Gerrard’s ‘not quitting’ stance; I suspect that he’s spoken to his representatives & been advised that being dismissed is the better (or least-worst) option in his current mindset/circumstances/career path.
Still, Liverpool has lost two on the bounce: Gerrard may be thinking Klopp’s baseball cap is on a shoogly peg!
Jingso.Jimsie 4th March 2020 at 11:27
'…I suspect that he’s spoken to his representatives & been advised that being dismissed is the better (or least-worst) option'
%%%%%%%%%%%
Prescinding from the case of Gerrard, I assume that football managers' contracts carefully define the criteria(both those directly relating to football success and those other ones about personal conduct etc etc) by which a manager will be assessed, and the point at which he will be judged as having not met them, and has to be sacked. If that is the case, then surely being sacked would not give rise to 'compensation' payments? for unilateral breaching of contract by the club?
Is there anyone on the blog able to provide some general background about the difference between being sacked, quitting unilaterally, and leaving by mutual agreement when it comes to 'money' and the effect on a manager's future professional prospects?
https://twitter.com/islesy123/status/1235006011355750400?s=21
PR offensive goes into overdrive. Amazingly poor article by the Express.
UptheHoops 19.53 3 March.
Re The Sun Article and Res12.
The article states amongst other things that the charges only relate to the monitoring period.
This prompted a short discussion on the curtailment on Sentinel Celts and where it puts every supporter in Scotland if the SFA JPDT use legal advice as a reason not to pursue as they did with LNS.
From Sentinel Celts
That is no surprise. That has been the m.o. throughout …. decide what you want the outcome to be, and then frame the issues so as to arrive at the outcome they want. They are now just trying to bring this to a neat and tidy end.
And they (including Celtic) would have swept this under the rug years ago. And they would have done just that, if it wasn’t for you pesky kids.
=====
The pesky kids immediately drew Celtic’s attention to the curtailment of the period under charge in May 2018.
They further gave Celtic a week later HMRC documentation voluntarily provided by someone who had lawful access to it.
Celtic did nothing so the pesky kids got their lawyer at some cost to send the documentation to the SFA the evening of the JPDT in June 2018.
Three weeks later the SFA came out with the CAS clause which The Sun article refers to.
Celtic had the meaning of the documentation rehearsed to them in Aug 2018 and did SFA, nor answered questions put at 2018 AGM re CAS referral.
In Jan 2019 they refused to use the documentation resulting in the new Res12 2019 where they refused to take case from SFA to UEFA, even though as The Sun article says the SFA had surrendered jurisdiction under the 5 Way Agreement.
Celtic were provided with a professional accountants report confirming deception at play in the grant period, which is SFA territory, by a group of shareholders in Jan 2020 which Celtic passed to SFA.
The decision Celtic and Scottish football face is to double down and block any decision on legal advice relating to the 5 Way Agreement or come clean.
The decision football supporters will face is do we continue to support if they double down?
Had Res12 been passed in 2013 the corruption it has revealed since then would not have been known and supporters would not be faced with a decision each will have to make if the SFA double down.
Edit
I made my personal decision in 2013 when I came to the conclusion that Celtic were complicit in the corruption of our game.
I stopped buying my 2 season books.
I have proxied my shares to Auldheid and his fabulous colleagues from day 1 to continue to take the fight to the crooks.
Don't stop now guys, the whites of their eyes ate showing.
I see Mr MacGiollaBháin is saying that TRFC are looking for a junior from the Faculty of Advocates. I assume this must be the long forecast action by Hummel/Elite as Mr Ashley prefers the Royal Courts in London.
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie
Giovanni@15.05
Perhaps they’ll have more luck playing at home than travelling to London.
On the “Calling List” at the Court of Session today.
CA12/20 The Rangers Football Club Limited AG LBJ Sports Apparel Limited. – Anderson Strathern LLP
I think that means that TRFC has lodged a summons with the court. LBJ will be notified and given a period of around a week to respond, so we should see further court hearings scheduled in the near future.
From the Court of Session guidance notes
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/court-of-session—notes-for-the-new-court-user.pdf?sfvrsn=24
Callings
To lodge a case for calling, you need to present the signeted Summons with the Execution of Service included at the back of the Summons, and a calling slip. The calling slip must include the names of the pursuer and defender, the case reference number and the pursuer’s agent’s name. Counter staff will check the service of the Summons, and the details on the calling slip. You will then be advised upon which day the case will call.
Defences
Defences are the defender’s pleadings in answer to the summons. Defences are due no later than 7 days after the case has called. Defences must be signed on the last page by counsel.
Auldheid 4th March 2020 at 13:09
Re The Sun Article and Res12.
The article states amongst other things that the charges only relate to the monitoring period.
This prompted a short discussion on the curtailment on Sentinel Celts and where it puts every supporter in Scotland if the SFA JPDT use legal advice as a reason not to pursue as they did with LNS.
=====================
In my view it is certain the SFA will hide behind the views of the fabled 'senior counsel' and bring this to an end. Celtic made it very easy for them to do that at the last AGM. Every other club and football writer in Scotland had already waved them through. The only hope left was Celtic finally being willing to take them on.
The whole thing is truly remarkable. It looks like every football club and every football writer in Scotland is actually okay with one club cheating, and that cheating being condoned by the SFA. Where on earth does that leave us?
upthehoops 4th March 2020 at 18:56
EDIT
It looks like every football club and every football writer in Scotland is actually okay with one club cheating, and that cheating being condoned by the SFA. Where on earth does that leave us?
———————————————————————————————
It is a sad state of affairs when the 'club like no other' turn out to be..well just like any other actually.Maybe some will enjoy Celtic fans discomfiture at the stance taken by the current Celtic board but fleeting smugness still leaves Scottish football betrayed by those in whom we, as supporters, have invested out trust.I say we, but like many others my financial support is now minimal.I was hoping that a crowd funded action of some sort would be forthcoming but that might be an action aagainst the Celtic board for negligence rather than taking aim at the real culprits, the SFA. I am not sure Celtic fans would turn so readily on a board on the cusp of delivering the hallowed ten. Has there been a criminal fraudulent action resulting in shareholder loss? In discussion with friends a referral to the authorities to check such a possibility seems to be enthusiastically backed.At the very least it would embarrass the SFA/Celtic and hopefully allow the issue to be properly aired in the public domain.
Referring back to my earlier post on the controversy over the F1 regulator apparently giving Ferrari preferential treatment subsequent to an investigation into potential wrongdoing, seven teams have now issued a statement on this 'deal' :
"We, the undersigned teams, were surprised and shocked by the FIA’s statement of Friday 28 February regarding the conclusion of its investigation into the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 Power Unit.
An international sporting regulator has the responsibility to act with the highest standards of governance, integrity and transparency.
After months of investigations that were undertaken by the FIA only following queries raised by other teams, we strongly object to the FIA reaching a confidential settlement agreement with Ferrari to conclude this matter.
Therefore, we hereby state publicly our shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally. We do so on behalf of the fans, the participants and the stakeholders of Formula One.
In addition, we reserve our rights to seek legal redress, within the FIA’s due process and before the competent courts.
Just the kind of statement Scottish football cubs were no doubt itching to issue over the Rangers* saga.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
gunnerb 4th March 2020 at 20:00
'…Has there been a criminal fraudulent action resulting in shareholder loss? '
%%%%%%%
To that question, gunnerb, has to be added the questions about whether the RIFC plc IPO prospectus ought not to have been authorised by the FCA as being misleading to potential investors and whether our Football authorities, by the creation of the Big Lie, might be seen to have in effect been party to quite a serious offence.
We have to constantly remind ourselves that our suspicions are that our football authorities may have been party to, and/or may have sanctioned, statutory criminal offences, not just piddling little 'sports' offences.
The entire 'saga' may be well into areas where football cheating and the breaching of tax legislation by a knight of the realm pale into insignificance when viewed alongside stock market 'manipulation' and conspiracy to defraud!
I'm not, of course, making allegations: merely positing the fact that there are serious questions to be asked of our Football Authorities ( which they are reluctant to answer) and of the FCA ( which they appear singularly unwilling to answer).
Does crime lie at the heart of our Sport ( as it appears to have done in some other countries, which the United states authorities dealt with when the criminals used US banks!)
redlichtie 4th March 2020 at 22:10
———————————————————————————
Not sucking on the scuderia intake valve in the way the duopoly in scottish football are perceived to have nourished a cabal of flatulent cowards.More money involved? Undoubtedly, but it is all comparative. I wonder who the Monsieur/Señor/Herr Turnbull equivalent is in Formula one.Not directly football related but if no one objects then please keep us updated Red.
Formula One Racing needs a strong Sauber
Where now for the Gerrard Roadshow ? What do the board do ? The fans have had enough , tonight may have been the end for them going by the reaction on the forums. Of course it's always best to judge the mood after a 24 hr cooling off period . Will Bayer Leverkusen be the last straw for grasping ? I cannot see them progressing in Europe any further , even an on form team would struggle against the Bundesliga outfit . This lot must be terrified at what awaits them . Will be interesting to see if the media turn on Gerrard in the hope that he walks , but with a long contract I expect he will dig his heels in and seek a pay off. That's where the problems start……… time to get the popcorn in methinks.
Does anybody know what the usual timetable is for UEFA Disciplinary Proceedings?
As things stand Bayer Leverkusen are playing the Sporting Wing of T'Rangers Pan-Global Everyone Anyone Tabernacle Choir in Govan a week tonight. Given the Choir's repertoire in Portugal (no "alleged"-I heard it) if UEFA are in any way serious about racism, sectarianism, offensive behaviour etc. shouldn't we have heard by now what the consequences of that repertoire are? UEFA have been aware of the problem from the start of the campaign and I fail to see how an earlier partial closure sanction for precisely the same behaviour can be followed by a Three Wise Monkeys stance. You either have Rules or you don't. Unless you've got a mate named Bryson.
In better news with a view to dealing with the coronavirus threat NHS Scotland are to be commended for their advice that contamination risk will be restricted by only allowing National Football Trophies to be handled by Scott Brown. NHS Scotland have thanked T'Rangers for their self-imposed eight year isolation period from handling these Trophies.
Timtim 4th March 2020 at 23:56
Where now for the Gerrard Roadshow ? What do the board do ? The fans have had enough , tonight may have been the end for them going by the reaction on the forums…
============================
Prior to the Accies game, it looked like both sides were establishing their positions via the SMSM;
Gerrard was not for walking away, as he still had lots to do… [i.e. he wasn’t walking away without a payoff]
&
the Blue Room was still backing Gerrard, [i.e. a negotiated payoff was not on the agenda, nor in the bank account.]
An impasse.
…swiftly followed by the feeble, home defeat to Accies.
No bounce back WHATSOEVER from the feeble, Hearts cup exit.
Which just leaves the Leverkusen game.
Makes sense to do what they always do down Govan way: just kick the can down the road?
IF Gerrard – somehow – gets past Leverkusen he’ll probably last to the end of the season, at least, IMO.
Not an ideal situation for Gerrard, the players, the Blue Room or the bears… nobody is happy!
Which is nice.
With the Leverkusen game now looming the word schadenfreude is just so, so appropriate.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Flybe going out of business today, sadly with job losses and passengers being stranded, is likely just to be the start of Covid-19 issues. It appears to be evidence that companies not managing to live within their means before the virus appeared will be at greatest risk.
With the news that Germany has an increasing problem with Covid-19, to the extent that an official has described it as a pandemic, there must be a possibility that the Leverkusen game will be disrupted in some way.
adam812 5th March 2020 at 10:43
….
With the news that Germany has an increasing problem with Covid-19, to the extent that an official has described it as a pandemic, there must be a possibility that the Leverkusen game will be disrupted in some way.
====================
Mibbees revert to the old European method of deciding a tie: toss a coin?
And, it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at Murray Park today…
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/03/05/when-an-expensive-shambles-is-great-value/
Quite staggering if accurate in more ways than one . Firstly Gerrard commanding a wage of 2.5m in his 1st management job although King was utterly desperate at the time so may well be spot on and secondly the golden handcuffs clause that will cost Gerrard 2.5m if he chooses to resign. His backroom team consist of 8 members so what is the total outlay for team Gerrard ? and do they also have handcuff arrangements? There is absolutely no way Gerrard will saddle himself with a 2.5m debt and if his wages are such what does it take to pay him off, a minimum of 2.5m I would imagine . The mood doesn't seem to have lessened among the fan base , everyone has to be sold for many multiples of their true worth and a new squad of Galacticos assembled for whatever it takes. Meanwhile back in the real World , Dave King is very quiet , no news of the share issue, no news of a new retail deal just new court cases to look forward to.
"The Karma has returned. A 'landslide' victory and a momentous day for Hamilton and the fans. The war is over, the administration men have won"
Timtim 5th March 2020 at 12:04
…
Dave King is very quiet, no news of the share issue, no news of a new retail deal just new court cases to look forward to…
==================
King has indeed been incredibly, and unusually, quiet these last few months.
It seems to be mostly PR p!sh being communicated from Ibrox these days, and mostly via the SMSM.
I just can’t imagine that King has been told to zip it, because of his Cold Shoulder – or that he would even comply if told.
[“The dugs in the street know” that King doesn’t do Compliance. 🙂 ]
So, has King finally given up on RIFC/TRFC – to the point where he could be prepared to take a painful hit to his wallet to exit?
This turmoil developing around Gerrard won’t be helping any sales pitch either…
It looks to me like TRFC were so annoyed
by Hearts knocking them out of the Cup that they decided to get their own back last night by ensuring Hearts went back to the bottom of the league
that must surely be the only explanation for a third defeat this year for the team in second place by the team at the bottom of the league!
I wonder if that's ever happened before, that the club in second place has lost three times (twice in the league) to two different incumbents of the bottom place in the league! It's possibly happened over the full season before, but surely not in the space of just over five weeks!
Apologies to Allyjambo but I hope that Ross County win this weekend too especially as this could, fingers crossed, be the last chance to have a victory against any version of Rangers!
Timtim 5th March 2020 at 12:04 https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/03/05/when-an-expensive-shambles-is-great-value/ Quite staggering if accurate in more ways than one . Firstly Gerrard commanding a wage of 2.5m in his 1st management job although King was utterly desperate at the time so may well be spot on and secondly the golden handcuffs clause that will cost Gerrard 2.5m if he chooses to resign. His backroom team consist of 8 members so what is the total outlay for team Gerrard ? and do they also have handcuff arrangements? There is absolutely no way Gerrard will saddle himself with a 2.5m debt and if his wages are such what does it take to pay him off, a minimum of 2.5m I would imagine . The mood doesn't seem to have lessened among the fan base , everyone has to be sold for many multiples of their true worth and a new squad of Galacticos assembled for whatever it takes. Meanwhile back in the real World , Dave King is very quiet , no news of the share issue, no news of a new retail deal just new court cases to look forward to. "The Karma has returned. A 'landslide' victory and a momentous day for Hamilton and the fans. The war is over, the administration men have won"
____________________
My understanding of what PMGB wrote is that it's not Gerrard who would have to stump up a year's wage should he walk, but TRFC (if Gerrard walks)!
Now that seems incredible and seriously unlikely, but remember, this is the club that paid SDI/MA a small fortune to end up with a worse contract than the one they were paying to get out of. They do have a history of committing contractual balls-ups whenever they are desperately trying to appease/impress their supporters to hand over their cash! And, unless Gerrard signed on the dotted line without seeking advice from a top lawyer, why on earth would any money grabbing ex-footballer agree to be handcuffed to any club, let alone one with a turnover in managers like the new club has!
I wonder of Super Ally has any gardening tips he could pass on, as that seems to me to be the most likely scenario if an impasse follows, with Super Murty taking over for a few dollars more a week than he's on now.
Allyjambo 14.01
btw, I see McNulty is facing the beaks for his stamp on Clare.
With the coronavirus wiping out the handshake will it be assumed decisions will now be made on a nod and a wink.
jimbo 5th March 2020 at 14:22
And so he should. Didn't even try to pretend it was an accident, and he must have known that he'd landed on Clare whether deliberate or not, as there's quite a difference in the feeling of landing on someone's back and landing on the grass. In an accidental 'stamp' it would be an automatic response to apologise, McNulty didn't even look like he cared.
By the look on his face, and with his head in his hands just after it happened, Scott Allan appeared to be in little doubt that a red card was on its way.
And it's another balls up by one of our senior (ha, senior?) referees as Clancy was looking straight at it from, I'd guess, less than 20 yards. Oops, that means McNulty has nothing to fear.
Regarding the effect of the Coronavirus on Scottish Football, as a 'left field' (lighter?) thought, watch out for an orchestrated campaign by the SMSM and (of course) Sevco's Fat Boy Fat for the rest of 2019-20 season to be abandoned (purely on public health grounds you understand) – with the SFA unable to declare a title winner at time of implementation of the decision since no team is far enough ahead.
Timing would be of the essence here.
Only kidding – or am I ?(you decide Dear Reader)
I should admit that I'm a fully paid up member (many years standing!) of the Paradise Paranoia Society – but I might just be right!
‘Allyjambo 5th March 2020 at 14:19
My understanding of what PMGB wrote is that it’s not Gerrard who would have to stump up a year’s wage should he walk, but TRFC (if Gerrard walks)!’
##########################
My understanding of what PMacG has written is slightly different from both Allyjambo’s & Timtim’s.
I think Phil means that there is a £2.5m ‘release clause’ in Gerrard’s contract, similar to Roger’s (rather more costly) one which Leicester City paid when he left CFC. However, these release clauses are only worth anything when the manager is in demand & chooses to leave mid-contract.
I wrote yesterday (before last night’s match) that I thought Gerrard would prefer to be sacked than leave of his own volition. That wasn’t based on any thoughts of ‘release clauses’, but on the premise that Gerrard & his people could better spin a dismissal which, in these circumstances, is other people (the board) blaming you for failure, rather than a resignation, which is an admission of your own failure.
In the latter case, questions would be asked about his abilities/testicular fortitude as a (rookie) manager ‘walking away’ from one of the ten biggest jobs in UK football; hardly a ringing endorsement for anyone considering appointing him to a top-flight job in the future.
bect67 5th March 2020 at 15:29
That might be a good plan for TRFC if only it was just Celtic who might lose out, for it's very likely that shutting down the league would see an end to TRFC's only current income stream, gate money, while the very expensive players they have will all need to be paid.
Wouldn't it be ironic if they pushed for this and, while they only delay Celtic's 10 in a row, they hasten their own demise!
bect67 5th March 2020 at 15:29
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Regarding the effect of the Coronavirus on Scottish Football, as a 'left field' (lighter?) thought, watch out for an orchestrated campaign by the SMSM and (of course) Sevco's Fat Boy Fat for the rest of 2019-20 season to be abandoned (purely on public health grounds you understand) – with the SFA unable to declare a title winner at time of implementation of the decision since no team is far enough ahead.
Timing would be of the essence here.
Only kidding – or am I ?(you decide Dear Reader)
I should admit that I'm a fully paid up member (many years standing!) of the Paradise Paranoia Society – but I might just be right!
———————————————————————-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51756886
Maybe not paranoid enough????
I proffered a possible solution a few days ago
Cancel the Euros and the CL, EL for next season and complete the domestic competitions in the summer. UEFA, the Media and sponsors would just love that. 
Wonder what Adrian Sprott is doing nowadays….
Scottish Football needs strong diddy teams.
Recession…. Most of us have endured this. You know that feeling when ‘the company’ is struggling and you’re worrying about salaries ‘going in the bank’ on pay day(?) Is it not the case that Gerrard has not lost the dressing room (double negative acknowledged ); but rather ‘the club’ have lost the players? Could it be that the acceleration of discontent amongst the credit card squad is intrinsically linked to the common ‘belief’ that ‘there’s no money left’ (© Liam Byrne)? Or does Gerrard’s ‘under the bus’ style lie with Newton…? ‘..’for every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction’? ©. That’d explain the Euro performances and the ‘let’s get the flock out of here’ mindset.
bect67 5th March 2020 at 15:29
'..watch out for an orchestrated campaign by the SMSM and (of course) Sevco's Fat Boy Fat for the rest of 2019-20 season to be abandoned (purely on public health grounds you understand) – with the SFA unable to declare a title winner at time of implementation of the decision since no team is far enough ahead…'
%%%%%%%%%%
One of the appealing features of the SFM blog is the underlying strain of humour that every now and then bubbles forth, and your post made me smile, in recognition of your recognition that perhaps it might be a wee step too far of 'exaggerated paranoia'. in order to make a point.
Then I remembered that it is undoubtedly true that our Football Governance people were, and continue to be, ready to cheat
The 5-Way Agreement is not a creation of paranoia : it is there, as a matter of fact, signed by the SFA and the SPL/SFL in 2012 and has since then been endorsed by the successors in office of those who signed it ,by their refusal to rescind it and refusal to declare that TRFC is a new club, and not at all 'continuity RFC of 1872'.
What, therefore, might we not expect of them in the cheating line?
Another appealing feature of the blog (to me, at any rate) is that many posts throw up ideas and subject matter that lead me to try to educate myself in areas of life's experience of which I'm ignorant.
Your post ,bect67, led me to try to find out what the national associations did when the Second World War broke out, and how the decision to abandon the season was taken and what the league positions of clubs in the various leagues at the time of abandonment was.
As it happens,
"It was decided that the Football League should begin on 26th August. More than 600,000 people watched these games. On Friday, 1st September, 1939, Adolf Hitler ordered the invasion of Poland. The football that Saturday went ahead as Neville Chamberlain did not declare war on Germany until Sunday, 3rd September. The government immediately imposed a ban on the assembly of crowds and as a result the Football League competition was brought to an end. Blackpool, who had won all three games so far that season, was top of the First Division table at the time."
I have not yet researched whether Blackpool was credited with the First Division league championship for that 1939/40 season!
I got carried away, in fact, in reading the stuff at this link
https://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm
Younger readers will appreciate that some of the names mentioned in that piece are of football players/managers who were still in business in football ( e.g Matt Busby) when I was a teenager!
It's a quiet night, so I suggest you might have a read at the link.
@stifflersmom, I have read your post 3 times and am still not sure if I understand it . If you are suggesting that the dip in form has coincided with the reality of their financial predicament hitting home then I think you maybe correct. Those in and around Ibrox must surely have a better feeling of the situation and atmosphere than , well the rest of us really . I can see the board emphasising to Gerrard the financial significance for success this year . The phrase "all in" that he used recently maybe one that he has heard others in the boardroom use on a few recent occasions . These concerns spread from board to management to players and the pressure to win (which is high during normal times) becomes overwhelming . The upcoming games v Leverkusen and Celtic could break them both mentally and financially , the pressure will be intense .
I am still assuming that this season's schedules will be fulfilled. But, in a general sense, how do we think that clubs throughout the world will be affected by the Corona virus going into next season?
The threats of a prolonged closedown and and/or playing games behind closed doors are likely to be very real.
Even if neither actually transpires, I'd imagine season ticket sales are still likely to be hit. If people are concerned about being in crowds, how many will commit to the expense of paying for a seat they think they'd be unlikely to use?
Consequently I think most clubs are likely to want to trim their costs (players) over the coming months.
Transfer fees are likely to be significantly depressed this window. A glut of players looking for clubs and clubs unwilling to sign up to new or extend existing contracts.
Day to day finance for clubs who may be relying on season ticket sales and/or summer transfer fees will be problematic. Those without significant cash reserves could be facing a real challenge.
Unfortunately, I fear even some well run clubs could go to the wall without some radical action.
Am I being unduly pessimistic or could it be even worse?
stifflersmom 5th March 2020 at 23:16
Recession…. Most of us have endured this. You know that feeling when ‘the company’ is struggling and you’re worrying about salaries ‘going in the bank’ on pay day(?) Is it not the case that Gerrard has not lost the dressing room
———————————————————————————
Regarding Sevco's form, I was thinking along similar lines, and looking for a possible explanation as to why the cash hungry footballers are playing poop. For most players, appearance money and win bonuses are King.
It seems reasonable to assume that these "perks", would be relative to the value of the competition entered. As such Euro matches would provide better perks, than domestic fitba', and would also come out of a pool of new income, and not the "already spent", season book kitty.
However it would not explain why a wee trip to Dubai would bring discontent to a head.
I do have a recollection that the Sevvie players had a form of zero contract that did not include holiday pay…..Technically the winter break is a mini close season.
I guess that much like everybody else, if players are told they are on holiday. They will be on holiday, and engage in holiday pursuits.
A couple of training sessions would not be an unreasonable demand from the club, for picking up the tab which sent them, "On holiday", to the same resort as Celtic, albeit on a budget package.
For players cash may be king…….But for Sevco, it's all about the headlines. The Sevvies lurve 'em.
Although coming from a different angle Stifler, I believe the drop-off in form to be cash related. Speculative?… Oui !, but speculation born of known knowns.
I believe the drop-off in form to be
Other teams got wise.
The Herald and Graeme McGarry are having a go at Steven Gerrard today basically stating that he is only keeping his job because of his reputation as a player and comparing his record to that of Liam Brady when he managed Celtic for two seasons. Looks like the operation to move SG out the door has begun in earnest.
JJ has also “unlocked” his latest article which offers some further insights as to why SG is still hanging on.
Ex Ludo 6th March 2020 at 09:09
'…The Herald and Graeme McGarry are having a go at Steven Gerrard today basically stating that he is only keeping his job because of his reputation as a player .'
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
I doubt if there was any football manager in Scotland who did not scratch his head in wonderment at the appointment of Gerrard on the very unsound basis that 'he was a superb player ergo he will be a superb manager'
That appointment must be seen as perhaps likely to have the same damaging effect on TRFC that SDM's hubristic 'for every fiver….. we'll spend ten' had on the now defunct Rangers of 1872. It may now kill TRFC as surely as Murray's cheating killed the old Rangers.
And whatever we may think of the importance of Truth to the general run of Scottish football hacks, we can expect that they also were astonished when Gerrard was appointed, but were told to keep comment about the appointment positive rather than negative.
If the 'Herald' is now being negative and expressing what it always thought, then I imagine that they must have been given the nod from Ibrox (in the same way that Pravda used to be authorised by the Kremlin) to re-write history in order to help ease Gerrard out.
I wonder if the SFA has issued an instruction to clubs advising players whilst on the pitch not to spit or blow their noses? If not, why not?
While watching the highlights of TRFC v Hamilton game I started to wonder about the current Morelos goal drought and why it might be happening now. Most of us relate it to the many off-field dramas he seems to be involved in, and I'm sure they don't help, but could it actually be that his previous scoring form/spree was actually an exceptional spell of form rather than a true indication of the player's ability? Could it be that TRFC have missed the boat (if there ever was one) in making a lucrative sale while he was showing form rather than genuine class?
I ask this as I often remember a cricketing quote (I think attributed to the great Richie Benaud) that goes something like: 'form is temporary, class is permanent', which might just be what we are seeing from Morelos. In other words, great players can have dips in form while average players can have a spell of exceptional form. In both cases the 'form' doesn't last and normal service/true ability returns.
I wonder, too, if the scouts and decision makers of the clubs who can spend millions are aware of this and waited to see if his form in the first half of the season was temporary or permanent.
To:
Cc:Complaints Scheme
Fri, 6 Mar at 11:11
Dear Mr
We have received your complaint against the FCA and this will be allocated to an investigator in the Complaints Team in due course.
Recently we have experienced an unexpected increase in the number of complaints reported to us. Unfortunately, this means as a result, our reply to your complaint will take longer than we would normally expect. We are sorry this is the case, but please be assured that we are taking action to resolve the issue as a matter of urgency.
We will aim to update you every four weeks.
In the meantime, if you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact us.
Yours sincerely
FCA Complaints Team
Risk & Compliance Oversight Division
12 Endeavour Square
London
E20 1JN
Tel: +44 (0)20 7066 9870
http://www.fca.org.uk
Complaints Scheme
complaints@fca.org.uk
+44 20 7066 9870 "
____
Well, that's somewhat encouraging!
I hope, of course, that they will agree that I have a point, but even if they do, I doubt if they would ever admit to being in breach of their statutory duty, if they can possibly avoid doing so. And even if they were so to do, I don't see what action they could now take.
But I'd settle for moral victory!
'Allyjambo 6th March 2020 at 11:31
…I ask this as I often remember a cricketing quote (I think attributed to the great Richie Benaud) that goes something like: 'form is temporary, class is permanent'…'
##########################
I'll counter your cricket quote with one from golf, often wrongly attributed to DCK's pal (if he's any left!), Gary Player: 'The harder I practice, the luckier I get.'
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/07/14/luck/
BTW, I thought it was Sam Snead or Ben Hogan who said it originally…
Morelos is off the boil. Is it due to head-turning transfer speculation, his personal life, apparent weight gain, cavalier attitude to time-keeping, or have defenders sussed him out a bit? Probably all of the above, to some degree.
My youngest son (who doesn't follow football) will attend his first Scottish football match tomorrow . A flat mate has given him a ticket for the Hearts v Motherwell match in the Gorgie stand . I am slightly concerned that he may enjoy it too much and decide to become a Hearts supporter . As a parent I have only made 2 requests to him , do not vote Conservative and do not support Rangers*. Should I threaten to cut his allowance ? I mean a Jambo in the family …….. Meanwhile Sebata has had a small move up to 216 from 210 which is background noise , the real indicators are the US Treasury yield which are collapsing (indicating panic) and Deutsche bank (down 35% in last 3 weeks) which if it collapses has the ability to take down the whole rigged game . It is no surprise that the FCA have seen a rise in complaints but at least they had the decency to reply to JC's letter.
Jingso.Jimsie 6th March 2020 at 11:45 Morelos is off the boil. Is it due to head-turning transfer speculation, his personal life, apparent weight gain, cavalier attitude to time-keeping, or have defenders sussed him out a bit? Probably all of the above, to some degree.
_____________________
But is 'on the boil' his true ability, or is his current form more indicative of the level of player he truly is?
In seasons past he seemed to get into the right places, but either missed a sitter, sclaffing it wildly, or saw the keeper make a great save etc, then the first half of this season we saw his form result in a barrowload of goals, but now he's back to the Morelos of previous seasons. Looks like he's bound to score, time and time again, only to narrowly miss or see his shot saved, blocked, cleared off the line.
Even now he's not a bad player, whether scoring goals, or not, but to be worth millions, whether 5 or 20, he needs to keep scoring goals, and he needs to score at least one in the games his team are otherwise going to lose/draw; which is not what he is doing. And, of course, Old Old Firm (OOF) strikers, and Not So Old Firm (NSOF) strikers, will always be judged by their record in matches against each other, particularly by potential buyers from down south. I'm not sure, but I don't think his record against Celtic is all that great, and, as I say, that's what he'll mostly be judged on.
Timtim 6th March 2020 at 12:12
The TD is not from me, Timtim, honest, but I can say that my sister's three kids are all Celtic supporters and it doesn't hurt, well not all that much
Like your son, my own son is not in the least interested in the beautiful game, but at least his sympathies are with Hearts…and his taste in music is pretty damn good, too
(gets it from his auld man
).
Mind you, we could both be sickened by five o'clock on Saturday…if it's Motherwell he ends up supporting (that'd be because they've won, not because I've anything against the Well
).
It's all about timing, someone once said…
1) Securing Gerrard was the ideal decision at that time.
A big name to lift the TRFC profile and players, with a potential source of quality/cheap loanees, an immediate sellout of ST's, and a potential boost to sponsorship revenues +
It was a bold and inspired action by King: I'll give him that.
2) Gerrard needs time – and at the right club – to become a successful manager.
It seems like he has a decent backroom team who have performed better than expected in Europe – but worse than expected domestically.
Gerrard led a closeted, comfortable lifestyle as a millionaire footballer with – presumably – a good support network at Anfield.
He played for one UK club – with a final, 18 months stint with LA Galaxy.
He then managed an Under-18 Liverpool side for one season.
He then went straight to Ibrox as the manager.
So, why would he automatically succeed with dealing with a demanding Board, managing squad politics, one to one man management, budget pressures of a club, driving his own transfer preferences, and the 1,001 other things demanded from high profile footy managers?
When Gerrard does leave TRFC he could go to a lower league, English club to learn his trade – like players/managers of old.
Currently, Lampard bucks that thinking at Chelsea [so far anyway] to some extent, after just one season at Derby.
But, IMHO, this reinforces a perception that Lampard has usually come across as a sharp / smart character.
Gerrard could still become a decent manager in his own right, but he needs time to develop the required skills – and perhaps in a less demanding environment?
All tongue in cheek AJ , when he was 5 he said he was going to support Livingston , when I asked why he said "well they need all the help they can get" .
Not a court hearing as such, but an “Unopposed Motion” was granted at the CoS yesterday in the undernoted case.
A51/19 Imran Ahmad v the Chief Constable – BBM Solicitors
Timtim 6th March 2020 at 12:12
'..the FCA have seen a rise in complaints but at least they had the decency to reply to JC's letter.'
%%%%%%%%%%%
It's taken them 8 months just to acknowledge that they have got my stuff! It will be interesting to see how quickly the 'investigator' can get round to 'investigating'. I will not be holding my breath!
HirsutePursuit 6th March 2020 at 01:20
ooooo
It's not only the concern about standing in crowds that might deter people from buying season tickets, but the possibility that matches might be played behind closed doors and they would therefore either lose out financially or have to seek a refund for matches they could not attend.
The same might be said for this season. I see from the link below that the SFA / SPFL are accepting the possibility of matches behind closed doors this season and expressing concern about the loss of revenue from walk up ticket sales. I would have thought those with season tickets would have a case for reimbursement of money spent by them (and the club?) already, and that this might be a greater concern for clubs with large numbers of season ticket holders.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51756886
macfurgly 6th March 2020 at 13:33
Don't worry, Macfurgly, our football governors will be on top of it and will already have a solution lined up so that no one loses out. Not.
One thing I think they should try doing, and so already be in negotiations with everyone involved, is to arrange live TV/online coverage of all matches (at least in the top two tiers), at a charge to the viewers.
I think most clubs have their own online TV channels, not normally available to view by the UK based public, but it might be possible to provide this in these special circumstances. A charge for each game would obviously be made and giving ST holders free access would go some way to appeasing disgruntled ST holders.
Either that or they could perhaps set up a deal with Premier Sport to cover all matches (obviously at different times and days). Wouldn't be great TV with no atmosphere, but it would be better than supporters missing every game, or the games not being played.
Obviously clubs will still lose lots of money, but it might go some way to appeasing ST holders and give us all a chance to watch our clubs for the rest of the season.
PS I can't see TRFC wanting this as they will still lose money while watching Celtic move to nine in a row, but for everybody else I'd imagine any income, should closed door matches come to pass, will be welcome. It might also keep sponsors onside as they'd be gaining access to the public via TV.
The UK FCO has been incredibly reluctant / slow to advise against travel to certain countries, due to the Coronavirus.
Hence, IMO, I think the UK government would be even more reluctant to negatively impact UK businesses with an outright bans on large gatherings.
And, would [some] footy clubs not have a form of 'Business Continuity' insurance coverage in place?
[…assuming they have kept their premiums up to date…
]
'Allyjambo 6th March 2020 at 12:25
But is 'on the boil' his true ability, or is his current form more indicative of the level of player he truly is?'
######################
That's a very good question.
I suspect he may have reached his apogee in respect to his natural abilities as a footballer, which has carried him this far. (Perhaps that's why there are never any proper offers for him; real, professional coaches & scouts can see this!)
I've no doubt he could improve as a player with the correct coaching & physical training. I do wonder if he would be up for that, though.
Jingso.JimsieJingso.Jimsie 6th March 2020 at 16:14
I think he's almost certainly the type of player who needs the right motivation and, probably, the right coach and atmosphere at whatever club he plays for. Only time will tell if the player of the first half of the season was the real Morelos, or a player just on an exceptional run of form, but things certainly aren't working for him just now and that great form has been sandwiched between pretty mediocre periods for a player rated even at the lowest of the estimates he's had pushed his way. And, of course, we must never forget he is one very dirty wee bar steward, and doesn't look like a player capable of cleaning up his act no matter who is managing or coaching him.
It is 5 years ago today that Mr king walked through the ibrox gates. He has kept the show on the road, but at what cost?
Will we end up with a The, The rangers?
Will we end up with no ibrox club?
Are the ibrox club any better off?
Have they like Morelos hit their peak?
Can the ibrox club survive another manager merrygoround without Mr king’s (Backing)?
The ibrox club/company still never got that NOMAD, will they get a new shirt deal in time for the new season?
Will Mr kings legacy be brushed under the carpet like Mr Murray’s
Will the fans get that statue of Mr king they so wanted?
@Cluster1
They have ran out of cash , they have ran out of real Rangers* men , there is no share issue as it would expose all the skeletons in the closet , there is no retail deal , the debt is piling up , the court cases are mounting , the manager is broken , the team are shell shocked, the fans have had enough and the media are primed to find a scapegoat. Nobody can be sold as the window is shut , the players on long lucrative contracts won't leave for less aka the management team , King can't find a buyer for his shares , the cold shoulder contagion will continue til he does, and if they don't cut their losses substantially a euro licence will not be forthcoming . The board,the manager,the players , the media and even some of their delusional fan base know where this is heading. I know without access to the figures it's mostly speculation but all the circumstantial evidence and the body language are screaming it's game over. The hail Mary is winning the Europa League (or even the SPL) and selling a player or 2 for 15-20m , possible – yes, realistic – no.
Cluster One 6th March 2020 at 19:41
'..Will we end up with……'
%%%%%%%%%
…an independent report on the UEFA licence questions of whether RFC of 1872 lied to the SFA, and whether the SFA knowingly endorsed any lie, and whether,if that had been the case, there will be any criminal prosecutions forthcoming?
.. the rescission of the 5-Way Agreement , the public acknowledgement that TRFC is Not RFC of 1872, and the recognition that TRFC are not entitled to any of the sporting achievements of the defunct Rangers?
… the shaming of those in office who may have been guilty of crime/abuse/misuse of office for sordid reasons?
…the full restoration of truth, honour and integrity in the governance of Scottish Football?
…a decision by the FCA that the IPO Prospectus was deliberately misleading?
Questions, questions, questions-all caused (ultimately) by one cheating s.d's hubris and the unwillingness of football governance to deal with that cheating as it should have been dealt with.
Cluster One 6th March 2020 at 19:41
It is 5 years ago today that Mr king walked through the ibrox gates. He has kept the show on the road, but at what cost?
…………..
Timtim 6th March 2020 at 21:07
John Clark 6th March 2020 at 21:24
……………….
But will there be a statue?
……………;-)
Morelos and TRFC. They seem to be having a very similar season. Both performing out of their skin in the first half, then the off-field shenanigans begin and continue as the form of both nosedive. I wonder; if our speculation holds any vestige of reality, will we see either next season?
Indeed, we could add King of the can kickers to the conundrum, for he, too, had a good time of it (as a demigod with the bears) in the first half of the season and now his own form is so bad he can't even do a runner.
I wonder if the reason that King hasn't left as yet is down to him believing that he had a buyer for his shares lined up at the end of last year. That buyer may have pulled out, having done a bit of due diligence on the viability of the business before signing on the dotted line, then thought "nah, it's not worth it"
easyJambo 6th March 2020 at 22:50
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the first time either. Indeed, I'd be surprised if it hasn't happened before, with someone making an offer that then allows them to look under the bonnet.
Cluster One 6th March 2020 at 21:42
‘..But will there be a statue?’
%%%%%%%%%
I rather doubt it, Cluster One.
Rather than having been any kind of saviour of TRFC King became a liability, a busted flush, and something of a millstone round the neck of a struggling club,what with being ‘cold shouldered’ by the world of finance:something that even arch-cheat SDM managed to avoid!
Having said that, King has one saving grace: he acknowledged that Rangers in Liquidation could be resurrected if someone paid all the debts that had caused it to be liquidated; and in that way acknowledged that TRFC is not the Rangers of 1872.
But that saving grace makes his guilt in continuing the pretence that TRFC is ‘Rangers’ all the more iniquitous! He knows the truth, has acknowledged the truth, but continues to act against the truth.
The man has deep, deep problems.
Any statue to him would deserve the fate of the statue to Saddam or Stalin.
John Clark 7th March 2020 at 00:00
Cluster One 6th March 2020 at 21:42
‘..But will there be a statue?’
%%%%%%%%%
I rather doubt it, Cluster One.
=======
Don't speak too soon JC!
"Football is a funny old game", and it wasn't that long ago that there was a life size statue of Michael Jackson outside Craven Cottage…
In the future there could be a King statue on Edmiston Drive, but it's mibbees more likely to have been crowd funded by Internet Bampots – to recognise his achievement of finally killing off any Ibrox club,
…with King's statue standing proudly in front of a mega Aldi / Lidl store.
John James seems to be in a good mood this morning.
I wonder what his PROTECTED: (PASSWORD: GEEZSYERDOSH) magna opera are like if this is the public Uriah Heep version?
John Clark 7th March 2020 at 00:00
Any statue to him would deserve the fate of the statue to Saddam or Stalin.
……………….
That was my way of thinking also, in Nov when he announced he was stepping down the ibrox fan base wanted to build a statue. I had pictures in my head that when the full extent of his clash with Ashley becomes reality of what he left behind for the ibrox fan base hits home.
Lugosi@09.37
I had to look, being the parasite that I am. Oh dear.
LUGOSI 7th March 2020 at 09:37
if this is the public Uriah Heep version?
…………….
Seen Uriah Heep live at the Edinburgh playhouse once. Singer had the crowd eating out of his hand, i enjoyed the guitar playing and the song Return to fantasy.
Ex Ludo 7th March 2020 at 10:17
Lugosi@09.37 I had to look, being the parasite that I am. Oh dear.
=======
Well, only JC gets a name check: pure jealous!
The frustrated chap does have a point though: I wish BP would hurry up and let us out of this "library basement"…
I find the recent comments about JJ very unfair. I always believe in giving
people a fair say. I always believe in honesty.
To criticise someone for asking for money to run and maintain there website
is unkind to say the least. This website has just ran a
“GEEZSYERDOSH” for the past month and rightly so. It costs money to
run a blog.
Watcher@12.15
Over the years on this site I have always noted a healthy degree of scepticism of everything that is written on line a propos *Rangers.
JJ is suggesting that this site accepts everything written by PMGB as gospel. He is one of many voices offering his world view which is tested here and elsewhere.
On a personal I’ve always followed the advice of Abraham Lincoln in that you should not believe everything you read on the Internet.
watcher 7th March 2020 at 12:15
For someone who plagiarises so much material it is a bit rich of him to accuse others of it.
He was caught lifting whole articles from elsewhere and posting them without giving credit for goodness sake.
I have no problem with him asking others for money though. If people want to pay for badly written nonsense it's their own business.
watcher 7th March 2020 at 12:15
6
10
Rate This
I find the recent comments about JJ very unfair.
……………..
By the time you posted 12.15 there were 3 comments on the jj site.
LUGOSI 7th March 2020 at 09:37
I wonder what his PROTECTED: (PASSWORD: GEEZSYERDOSH) magna opera are like if this is the public Uriah Heep version?
……………
Ex Ludo 7th March 2020 at 10:17
I had to look, being the parasite that I am. Oh dear
……
StevieBC 7th March 2020 at 11:34
Well, only JC gets a name check: pure jealous! enlightened
The frustrated chap does have a point though: I wish BP would hurry up and let us out of this “library basement”…
……………
If you believe 3 comments like that are unfair? Hang around you should see the unfair comments the SFA web site gets;-)
@watcher
There is a difference between asking for support and demanding payment then referring to those who don't as parasites . He claimed the unwaged would always have a voice on the "speakeasy" he changes the goalposts constantly .When people want to know how much it costs for a password , they are told to send a donation first . He said peoples details would never be revealed then posted a contributors details when they disagreed . The comments on Sebata holdings were discussed here 24 hrs before he chose to highlight them (time stamped fact) yet we have the audacity to suggest he took them from here . The fact that he highlights it shows he does come here and read the comments. As for his vitriol at P McG just put that down to total jealousy from their difference in earnings. This is someone who claimed they were stealing £1m a year of water from a church a mile away. John James biggest problem is John James
I don't really understand these things as well as others but can I just confirm my understanding. There is no requirement for a PLC to release an interim report if they don't actually trade shares on the stock exchange.
If that is the case whilst it might be worrying for the shareholders that Rangers haven't done so (yet) they would not actually be doing anything wrong.
H you are correct.
But if I was an RIFC shareholder I'd be wondering what's going on: uncertainty and all that.
Don't think King can be @rsed this year. 🙂
StevieBC 7th March 2020 at 16:43
Thanks for that.
Exactly, if I was a shareholder I would be seriously concerned and thinking "how bad can it be".
Especially with the predicted cashflow / turnover issues, however the Europa run may have helped that.
If there was good, or even decent news they would be talking about it.
Not sure when they were all published but past RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC six monthly UNAUDITED TRADING RESULTS to the dates undernoted were signed off as follows :
31 December 2018 – DCK 25 February 2019
31 December 2017 – DCK 29 March 2018
31 December 2016 – unsigned/undated
31 December 2015 – unsigned/undated
31 December 2014 – Paul Murray, Interim Chairman 30 March 2015
31 December 2013 – David Somers, Chairman 27 March 2014
31 December 2012 – Malcolm Murray, Chairman 4 March 2013
In the main the current situation is not as tardy as we might think but, as has been commented on by Homunculus, if there was good news I’m sure they would be shouting it from the rooftops ASAP.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
redlichtie 7th March 2020 at 17:40
Not sure when they were all published but past RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC six monthly UNAUDITED TRADING RESULTS to the dates undernoted were signed off as follows :
31 December 2016 – unsigned/undated
31 December 2015 – unsigned/undated
==========================
If it helps:
The interim accounts to 31/12/2016 were published on 23/03/2017
The interim accounts to 31/12/2015 were published on 07/03/2016
Hearts is an example a plc where the shares aren't traded on an exchange. They don't publish any interim accounts.
Full disclosure: for a while a few years back I made small monthly subscription payments, (as I still do for SMSM), to that other site.
My logic was: I support citizen journalism and value those who make the effort to call out the corrupt SMSM.
Initially I was happy to contribute… but eventually – and regardless of that other blog's content – when I was being collectively slagged off for being an SFM contributor, it became an easy decision to cancel my monthly payments.
IMHO, it was a very decent blog to start with – and could be again?
I've only just got round to reading today's 'Scotsman'. Andrew Smith's back page piece has the headline "Gerrard:Our players need 'protection' from within ", with a smaller heading " Ibrox boss calls for in-house help after criticism of Tavernier's programme notes"
Smith cites a number of utterances made variously by Kent, Tavernier, coach Michael Beale and Gerrard himself which have caused disquiet within the camp.
Smith writes that "The Ibrox manager believes there is a need for greater filtering of the club's football personnel, in what might be seen as a curious criticism of Rangers' in-house media"
He quotes Gerrard " Sometimes when you say certain things, it's got to be checked before it goes out at certain times… … … The players in that dressing room are at stages of their career where they are all trying to improve and learn and grow and none of them think they are there.So I think at times they are going to get things wrong and make mistakes. At the same time, we are a club where we need protection at times.We need people to look out for us at times and help us."
Communications with the outside world ( via official PR) are pretty dire, and in my opinion have had an entirely negative effect.
For there to be no sensible internal oversight of what appears in the match programme, and no standard briefing given to players who might be interviewed by the Press, seems crassly incompetent.
For the manager himself to draw public attention to such incompetence as an excuse for the incautious expressions of criticism or daft 'explanations' of why things go wrong is in itself proof that TRFC really does need help in the communications field!
What was Gerrard thinking about when speaking to Smith?
John Clark 7th March 2020 at 20:02
Smith writes that “The Ibrox manager believes there is a need for greater filtering of the club’s football personnel, in what might be seen as a curious criticism of Rangers’ in-house media”
…………….
And it has all of a sudden taken SG two years to notice.
Cluster One 7th March 2020 at 21:22
'….taken SG two years to notice.'
%%%%%%%%%%
Doesn't say a lot for his general awareness of how RIFC plc /TRFC is being run as a business or of his role in ensuring that his professionals stick strictly to their profession as footballers, and don't stray into the field of commentators or analysts!
And, really, he himself should button his lip, or stick to the tried and trusted banalities, always finding positives.
(Do you think, if I offered my services to the Ibrox board ,I might be taken on as a consultant? It offends me [as an old and treasured friend used to say in discussions] that any organisation should be so badly managed at every level. I couldn't live with that!)
The old aphorism holds perennially true: a fish rots from the head.
This story from tomorrow's Sunday Post might raise a few eyebrows. Of course such things could never happen in Scotland.
Cluster One.
Uriah Heep?
Thank God. Someone on here as old as me!
HS
Higgy’s Shoes 8th March 2020 at 02:48
Thank God. Someone on here as old as me!
…………….
Watch it!………………….;-)
Steven Gerrard reveals Walter Smith’s ‘gold dust’ Rangers advice as he delivers telling Celtic confession
……………..
When walter is brought back into the mix, you just know it is at the desperation stage.
……
Also in todays headlines.
The Dave King Rangers power move that must happen to end Ibrox limbo.
A call for king to return and sort things out.
………………..
It is like a cry out for Help today coming from down ibrox way
easyJambo 7th March 2020 at 23:39:
Related to this post (it's on page 2) from last month?
'Big Pink 2nd February 2020 at 12:05
I was told on Friday that a particular player who is often in the news was the subject of an investigation into a spread-betting situation and that today’s papers would have details. Told this morning that publication was prevented by injunction. Was sceptical at first but is this perhaps a sideways allusion to that?'
easyJambo 7th March 2020 at 23:39
'..This story from tomorrow's Sunday Post might raise a few eyebrows..'
%%%%%%%%%%%%
I just love the SPFL's spokesperson's observation ;" It is essential the reputation for integrity in our game is preserved.”
Preserved?
I would have thought 'restored' would have been a more appropriate and truthful word to have used.
Just about to head out for a 12 o'clock kick off knowing that this may be the last chance for RC to get a win against Rangers (any version). If there are footballing gods surely they will make this happen!
https://twitter.com/mrgreen18881967/status/1236594329243856896?s=21
A tweet quoting Michael Gannon in the Sunday Mail.
Michael Gannon's piece in the Sunday Mail is dreadful – so dreadful it's unintentionally humourous.
However, it's not as funny as the Scotsman's story that Tottenham Hotspur are standing by to pay £22m (Twenty two million pounds!) for TRFC's Borna Barisic in the summer.
BTW, 'Brand Gerrard' seems to be pulling out all the stops to provide support for StevieG from his ex-Liverpool & England team-mates. I doubt that support is being mustered via TRFC/Level Sinko, but through his chums in the English media. I wonder why that is?
Ex Ludo 8th March 2020 at 11:10
"But you’d have a heart of stone if you didn’t feel a little bit sorry for Dave King."
It would take me pretty much the rest of the day to explain the reason' why I don't feel even a wee bit sorry for the lying fraudster.
Cluster One
A call for king to return and sort things out.
why?can he play centre half
tony 8th March 2020 at 12:59
He has done such a great job since seizing control.
The team has been winning everything and the club is financially very strong.
Homunculus
It's crazy that some of their fans still think he's a saviour, a fool and his money is very apt here
Raman Bhardwaj @STVRaman
Hamilton statement re Sunday Post story: On Thursday 27th Feb one of our senior youth coaches advised HAFC he had been contacted by the police to be questioned in relation to a yellow card incident that took place during season 2018/19.
The coach in question advised us he has since met with the police. HAFC have not been contacted directly and it is our understanding that no one has been charged with any offence.
As the Police enquiry is ongoing it would be inappropriate for the club to comment any further at this time.
Edit: the player/coach involved has been named as Dougie Imrie by the Sun.
https://twitter.com/Heavidor/status/1236609861972082688
I think Heavidor may have some figures wrong , he states 15m was needed according to the accts to fund the shortfall , I'm sure it said 10m and 10 pts for an admin event when the discussion on here recently said 15 and then a subsequent 5 for the next season. The interesting point is the need to call it by the 31st of March or the point reduction will occur next season which in itself seems very strange. Theoretically a club could enter administration with 5-6 games to go , receive no point deduction and go on to win the league (if that is correct) . However by 31st March the picture will be much clearer regards whether they still have a chance in the league and are in or out of Europe. By then according to King's statement at the AGM the share issue will have been held and he will have gone .
I don't think that Tweet adds anything to the discussion, IMHO.
If the author possesses new information to underline an imminent insolvency event, but is not prepared to share that information – then it still doesn't add to the discussion.
Whist RIFC has consistently accumulated losses since it's inception, it has dumbfounded most Internet Bampots by consistently managing – somehow – to continue limping along and to continue kicking that battered, old can along the road.
Now, I'll only believe it if/when a Court confirms an insolvency event down Govan way…
StevieBC 8th March 2020 at 17:41
I don't think it has dumbfounded many people.
The PLC has
a, had a share issue to raise funds.
b, Received loans from directors and others associated to them.
c, had another share issue and converted those loans to equity.
Basically it has been spending money it hasn't got and producing more and more worthless shares in order to raise that money and keep going.
If there is an insolvency event it will be because the PLC has continued to live outwith its means and no-one is left who is willing to fund that overspending.
I think they are currently hoping to sell one or two players for big money in order to balance the books. Which is a perfectly valid business model for a football club.
Timtim 8th March 2020 at 17:10
At the time of preparation, the forecast identified that the Group would require £10.0m by way of debt or equity funding by the end of season 2019/2020 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in November 2019. However, the final amount required is dependent on future football performance, European football participation and player trading amongst other factors.
The Board of Directors have discussed the Club’s forecast cash flow shortfall and have reached agreement with Laird Investments (Pty) Limited whereby it will provide additional loan facilities as necessary to meet shortfalls to the above requirements and any further amounts that may be required a result of variances to forecast cash flows. Further to this, Laird Investments (Pty) Limited have agreed to provide a £5m facility to October 2021.
The Board has considered the level and timing of additional funding that may be needed and is satisfied that any such amounts will be made available as and when required.
Homunculus 8th March 2020 at 20:00
The going concern statement in the TRFC accounts was dated 4 December 2019 (The RIFC statement was dated 31 October)
The TRFC statement differed in terms of the amount required to see out the season, £6m instead of £10m. It’s not clear if the amount had dropped because of EL “success”, or if the £6m was the balance following earlier partial funding. I see the former explanation as being more likely. My reason for doing so, is that I’m not aware of anything that has occurred between October and March that has made their financial position worse.
easyJambo 8th March 2020 at 20:30
Perhaps Laird had provided the money they promised.
"The first tranche of funding is required from investors in November 2019"
They would already have factored in some EL in their original predictions, would they have an additional £4m (over and above their prediction) by that stage.
Homunculus 8th March 2020 at 21:32
easyJambo 8th March 2020 at 20:30
Perhaps Laird had provided the money they promised.
"The first tranche of funding is required from investors in November 2019"
They would already have factored in some EL in their original predictions, would they have an additional £4m (over and above their prediction) by that stage.
======================================
I don't know is the short answer.
Would they have needed to spend £4m+ in the five weeks between 31 October and 4 December.
My personal view that their results in the EL generated sufficient income to delay the funding requirement for a month and that their progress towards the knockout stages generated further forecast income to reduce the season's requirement.
I may be completely wrong and that cash was both needed and spent in November, e.g. to pay transfer installments. Similarly, they may have budgeted for some incoming transfer income in January that hasn't materialised and that they are now running on fumes. We just don't know, which is why I've adopted the Occam's Razor approach.
I suspect that if they had good news to impart to their now-suffering fans they would get that out through their friendly media outlets as soon as was humanly possible.
Even unaudited accounts however must have some basis in reality. Directors need to be very careful what they publish with regard to the trading position of their organisations.
Is there actually a chance that they won’t in fact publish interim results this year?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Is the significant phrase not " at the time of preparation" ? they were prepared using figures up to June so didn't include the Kent and Helander spend of approx 10m . These can be kicked down the road to the interims that don't need to be published or audited or wait until next year . Laird have stepped up it would seem with the first tranche with an interest bearing loan which should see them to end of Feb/March where the share issue was intended to raise the remaining shortfall that would get them to ST renewal time and the opening of the transfer window . Barisic is the latest to be put in the shop window for 22m . King has used L5 to drum up interest in order to sell his shareholding, the management team and any player , he would have tried selling the kitchen sink as well if it wasn't a secured asset to Close Brothers. I think the estimated shortfalls were viewed using blue rose tinted spectacles and may have factored in a Scottish cup SF and Final as well as maximum walk up demand . Of course as others have pointed out they always seem to kick the can further down the road of reckoning and won't believe it til they see it regards administration . I remain of the thought that the odds are very much stacked against them.
Winter 2020 Fundraiser……Wow!
Timtim 8th March 2020 at 22:21 If i remember correct, and always happy to be corrected. The last time an ibrox club went into Administration i think they had about £2mill in the bank?
Just now do they have anything? i can’t remember if they even have a bank.
@C1 I'm sure the ST money is being released on a game by game basis and if that's the case it would also have been taken into account so while they may have money in the bank it's not enough to cover the running costs.
Its possible that over the next week or so either the Scottish or UK powerbrokers will take the view that in the interest of public safety all sporting events likely to attract large crowds are to be played behind closed doors for rest of this season then surely creditors that have been promised that the cheque is in the post will have second thoughts and it will only take one nervous trigger finger to pull the plug and ringfence their cash
No luck for RC today but the fight for Premiership safety will continue.
The Record online is reporting that there are calls from the German health minister for any event with more than a 1000 people to be cancelled. No decision is made yet but Rangers EL return game must be at some risk of being played behind closed doors if going ahead at all. Supporters who already have paid for travel, accommodation and match tickets will hopefully have taken out insurance.
Adam812
I don’t know exactly what the German situation is re Coronavirus, but I don’t think ours is at that stage yet. Numerically we are light years behind the Italians for example.
Little or no sympathy for TRFC of course, but any football club facing N existential crisis because of the pandemic is not blessed with good luck.
Adam 812
I think RCFC should be clear of worry rev relegation
Hope so anyway.
Homunculus 8th March 2020 at 19:55
I think they are currently hoping to sell one or two players for big money in order to balance the books. Which is a perfectly valid business model for a football club.
======================
It absolutely is a viable business model, particularly in Scotland where there is so little TV money. What is not viable in my view is to maintain that they MUST get a certain price for their players just because their rivals got a certain price. This has been the stance all along and even their Chief Executive has publicly alluded to it. There is a lot more to it than that. Genuine ability for starters, followed by what a player has achieved and at what level. Petted lips because your rivals can get big fees does not come into it.
redlichtie 8th March 2020 at 22:15
Is there actually a chance that they won’t in fact publish interim results this year?
================
I may be completely wrong, but the quite absurd interims last year were used by the SFA to grant them a European Licence. If that is the case then I expect very healthy interims some time soon.
If the price of getting a UEFA licence is imposed austerity (aka living within your means), then everything depends on some serious transfer funds arriving.
Question is how the Scottish authorities would view any breach of the UEFA criteria. Is it possible that standards are lower in Scotland than at UEFA? Surely not??
StevieBC 7th March 2020 at 11:34
"Library basement"?
#intrigued
Big Pink 9th March 2020 at 08:24
StevieBC 7th March 2020 at 11:34 "Library basement"? #intrigued
==========================
BP, for context you have to read a certain blogger's post from a couple of days ago – where SFM gets a special mention.
redlichtie 8th March 2020 at 22:15
'…Directors need to be very careful what they publish with regard to the trading position of their organisations..'
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Indeed so.
And Directors are also to be careful that an IPO Prospectus issued in their name is not designed to mislead prospective investors.
Sadly, not all Directors are men of probity and integrity. In fact, I believe that some can be quite criminally minded.
Such directors take comfort from the fact that not very much seems to happen to such criminals when they are caught out.
A second UCL game is now being played behind closed doors. Got to fulfil those TV contracts after all.
I think we all know where this is going. The players, coaching staff and match officials are obviously immune to the virus.
I watched a few bits of footy over the weekend and was amused at the Coronavirus protocols – bump elbows at the start of the match , full on handshakes and hugging at the end . That'll learn it !
paddy malarkey 9th March 2020 at 14:05:
As I wrote last week, the football authorities should be banning the disgusting practices of players spitting & blowing their noses on to the pitch at this time. I don't suppose they will though…
BigPink@08.24
The library basement might prove to be the safest place to be shortly.
Ex Ludo
Building one as we chat ?
How to go into administration, dump your debts and not incur a points deduction.
As the Covid19 outbreak continues and the SPFL is ultimately forced to accede to the government's restrictions on public gatherings (now expected within the next two weeks), games may be played behind closed doors or cancelled all together.
At that point a club could reasonably claim that their cash flow was impacted to such an extent (no matchday income or refunds required on STs), that administration was the only way out.
That would normally invoke a 15 point penalty (this season) plus 5 points (next season). However the SPFL rules allow for an appeal on the basis of "force majeure".
Simples
I would respectfully suggest that the financial ‘direction of travel’ any club was on when the ‘force majeure’ was encountered would be a consideration?
Mon, 9 Mar at 18:38
Reference
Dear
Thank you for taking the time to contact us about the BBC Sport article ‘Saracens relegation ‘is most remarkable scandal in the domestic game’’ (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51168926)
We apologise we have been unable to respond to you until now. This is because we had recently been receiving unprecedented volumes of complaints and have experienced delays in being able to reply.
We wish to reassure you that on the day you contacted us your points were read in full and circulated to staff the next day. This is our internal report of all complaints and other comments, which we distribute each morning to programme teams and producers. They were able to read and consider both your and other reaction we received at the time.
I note your points about Tom Fordyce’s reference to Rangers toward the end of the article (“Rangers are challenging Celtic again at the top of the Scottish Premiership, eight years after being demoted to the fourth tier.“).
In keeping with a judgement by the BBC Trust (the body which previously regulated the BBC) on the matter – please see below – we will continue to refer to the team in a sporting capacity as Rangers FC and only when reporting on the business matters pertaining to the club will we, when and as appropriate, refer to the old and/or new operating companies.
The BBC Trust finding on the issue may be accessed (on page number 25) of their archived June 2013 bulletin, at
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/appeals/esc_bulletins/2013/apr_may.pdf#page=27.
While aspects of this finding may not entirely align with elements of your complaint, the underlying theme – that of how the club should be described – lies at the heart of the finding. In this respect we would draw your attention to the BBC Trust’s conclusion points on page 5 of the bulletin, as summarised below:
The Committee concluded:
– that the choice of the right language by the BBC was highly dependent on the purpose and context of the output, including the intended audience and, for example, whether it was a sport story or a business story.
– that, while there was no reason to treat the football club itself as “new” simply because the assets that make up the club had been transferred from one company to another, there was good reason to distinguish between “newco” and “oldco” when referring to the owning companies and the corporate transactions involved in the sale of the club.
Thank you again for contacting us. We hope that our reply helps to clarify matters and allays any concerns you may have.
Thanks again for getting in touch.
Kind regards,
Brian Irvine
BBC Complaints Team
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
Please note: this email is sent from an unmonitored address so please don’t reply. If necessary please contact us through our webform (please include your case reference number).”
@EJ 18.33
That pesky going concern notice would show they were already holed below the waterline
easyJambo 9th March 2020 at 18:33
“….the SPFL rules allow for an appeal on the basis of “force majeure”.”
Bawsman 9th March 2020 at 19:05
“I would respectfully suggest that the financial ‘direction of travel’ any club was on when the ‘force majeure’ was encountered would be a consideration?”
%%%%%%%%%%%
Will we see TRFC Ltd v The SPFL in the Court of Session?
Quite interesting stuff on ‘force majeure’ on this link
https://www.shoosmiths.co.uk/insights/articles/coronavirus-applying-force-majeure
I would not go so far as to suggest that Mr James Don Blair and the litigious Dave King may be hoping that the coronavirus situation continues and worsens, but I dare say they are preparing their case: and I would not be surprised to learn that they might have been pointed to the ‘force majeure’ possibility by a friendly counsellor in Football Governance.!
[ lord! I hate how that cheat SDM and the men guilty of creating the 5-Way Agreement have caused me to turn into such a distrustful and suspicious person. I was not ever thus!]
I note that
'..A new so-called “counter disinformation unit” will see Whitehall staff identify and respond where necessary to inaccurate or misleading stories and posts about coronavirus.'
Oh, that there was such a unit to identify and respond where necessary to 'inaccurate or misleading stories and posts asserting that TRFC is continuity Rangers of 1872!'
George Orwell! Where are you when we need you!
Will we believe what Whitehall says about coronavirus any more than I believe what the 6th Floor and BBC Scotland have to say about TRFC?
John,
“ while there was no reason to treat the football club itself as “new” simply because the assets that make up the club had been transferred from one company to another, there was good reason to distinguish between “newco” and “oldco” when referring to the owning companies and the corporate transactions involved in the sale of the club”
When a business goes bust and the assets are held by the administrators who subsequently sell the assets to a new owner they are not TRANSFERRED! They are sold and bought, there is a difference. A transfer of assets might happen within a corporation to a separate department/company. When CG trumpeted about buying the assets he never mentioned ‘I was transferred the assets’!
Transfers are internal, the BBC trust used that language to suit their desired outcome.
Let me put it another way. When I leave a job to take up a post with another firm, I am not ‘transferred’.
Perhaps they got mixed up because we talk about footballers being transferred. It’s actually a loose use of terminology. They are bought and sold. Probably came into use in the mists of time when clubs were clubs and not plcs. And it was to do with registrations transferred within an FA.
jimbo 9th March 2020 at 23:18
"…the assets are held by the administrators who subsequently sell the assets to a new owner they are not TRANSFERRED.."
%%%%%%%%
Yes, jimbo.
It is blindingly obvious that if any of the bidders for 'Rangers' as Rangers had not chickened out when they saw the amount of tax debt they would be (potentially) accepting responsibility for, and had gone ahead and bought 'Rangers', then of course they would have bought Rangers football club of 1872, debts and warts and all!
But nobody did buy Rangers of 1872 out of Administration.
CG bought ( and suspiciously cheaply!) a stadium, and some related properties ,and had to set up a new football club, which had to apply for membership of a league, and could not enforce the contracts that 'Rangers' players had signed with RFC of 1872.
The entity that held the share in the SPL, on foot of which it was a member of the SFA, was Rangers football Club plc. There was no 'holding company' owning the share in the SPL. It was RFC of 1872 that went bust, and lost any entitlement to membership in Scottish Football.
It was such a different legal entity that HMRC couldn't get from it the taxes that RFC of 1872 owed!
And that such a monstrous fraud by the SFA should have been perpetrated, that allowed a very obvious lie to be foisted onto Scottish Football marks out Scottish Football governance as rotten to the very core.
The passing of 8 years or so does not legitimise the rottenness.
The liars and cheats ( or their successors in office)are still there at the heart of our game.
May they be confounded, sooner or later.
Oh dear, from the TDs it would appear some posters have misunderstood the intentions of my posts or I have not explained them well enough. When I rubbish the BBC Trust’s claims that the assets of the oldco were TRANSFERRED to the newco, I am arguing against the continuity myth. We all know that CG did not buy Rangers 1872, but he did buy the assets. The bricks and mortar so to speak. That is unarguable. The scandalous things that happened after that with the SFA is another matter entirely.
What did not happen was a seamless transfer of assets from one facet of a club to an updated version of the same club or company. If that were true, why did money change hands? From one bank account to another? If it was merely a transfer in the normal sense it would a paper transaction carried out by a bookkeeper within a set of accounts – trust me I was a bookkeeper for the Government.
Obviously CG did not buy the accounts of oldco.
For the BBC Trust to suggest the assets were transferred is nonsense. But it helps to blur the lines to the uninformed gullibillies and lower level media. It makes the differences between oldco and newco look grey rather than black and white.
“ there was good reason to distinguish between “newco” and “oldco” when referring to the owning companies and the corporate transactions involved in the sale of the club”
Now read that again. They admit there is reason to distinguish between newco & oldco when referring to……….the corporate transactions involved. The SALE of the assets (not an internal transfer) was a corporate transaction.
I would also take issue with them in……the sale of the club. The CLUB was not sold! Only the assets.
The BBC are on weak ground relying on that conclusion from the Trust. (The Trust R.I.P.)
” there was no reason to treat the football club itself as “new” simply because the assets that make up the club had been transferred from one company to another”
So, the assets = the club. “The assets that make up the club.” Really? So UEFA would have allowed the newco to participate in Europe the next season if they won the Scottish Cup? Don’t think so. Were we not informed that as a new club it would not be allowed for 3 years?
Supposing that sentence read, “The assets of the old club had been sold to another company” How would that sound?
https://twitter.com/tamsellicsoniii/status/1237119975648829440?s=21
Speaking words of financial wisdom before the times of trouble came to pass. Where did it all go wrong?
JohnClark@22.51 yesterday
‘..A new so-called “counter disinformation unit” will see Whitehall staff identify and respond where necessary to inaccurate or misleading stories and posts about coronavirus.’
Don’t worry JC it’s just the Party getting us ready to disbelieve the evidence of our own eyes. In the US, Fox News does the dirty work whilst the BBC fulfils that function here. The difference is that we pay for the privilege.
Speaking of privilege I note that Nigel Farage is once again appearing on Question Time this week.
John Clark 9th March 2020 at 22:51
I note that ‘..A new so-called “counter disinformation unit” will see Whitehall staff identify and respond where necessary to inaccurate or misleading stories and posts…
=====
The phrase: “Who guards the guards?” immediately jumps into my head.
I guess the BBC and most other MSM outlets will be getting into trouble soon…?
And related to this: without touching on the Salmond case at all, none of the MSM has reported that the general public – including citizen journalists – is NOT allowed into the Court in Edinburgh for the evidential hearings.
However, the Courts Tribunal has decided, unilaterally ?, that only accredited / MSM journalists are allowed access – to a part of a public building for a public court case.
That’s a worrying development, IMO: mibbees our resident Court Reporters could add anything / correct me…?
A quick Google re public access to courts:
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/coming-to-court/victims-of-crime/visitors
‘Generally courtrooms are open to the public and you can attend and listen to proceedings. There may be occasions when courts are closed to the public, perhaps where a child witness is giving evidence or because of the nature of the proceedings. Court staff will be able to advise you. There are some rules and you should read more about Attending a Court before visiting.’
That section links to this:
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/coming-to-court/attending-a-court
…which then links to this:
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/coming-to-court/public.pdf?sfvrsn=4
‘If a court is closed in the interests of justice, the public is excluded. This may happen occasionally to protect vulnerable witnesses, such as a child or the complainer of a sexual offence; or to protect confidential information.’
The procedures that are in place to protect witnesses have been utilised in this case, so not really ‘decided unilaterally’.
Jingso.Jimsie 10th March 2020 at 10:46
A quick Google re public access to courts:
…
The procedures that are in place to protect witnesses have been utilised in this case, so not really ‘decided unilaterally’.
=====================
Agreed, re: restrictions mentioned above.
But, I'm also referring to the fact that a public body is deciding which reporters are allowed to attend a criminal Court hearing – and which reporters, including citizen journalists, to bar from proceedings.
Some bloggers nowadays have a significantly wider reach than some print media outlets.
This 'selection' doesn't seem right, IMO.
Anyone who missed the "library basement" piece by John James at the weekend has, well, missed it. It, and everything apart from a piece dated yesterday and two paywall pieces including some pseud nod to Shakespeare, has gone. I don't know if this is part of the terms and conditions of the many different forms of contract negotiated/imposed on that site but each to their own. Going by what I would call "Comments" but are called "Thoughts" on that site the lieges are delighted. When you read the views of the site supporters you can't help thinking the author, proprietor, majority voteholder, editor and sole beneficiary couldn't have written more glowing reviews, tributes and expressions of admiration himself. If he could they would be there.
There's only one viewable piece on the entire site and yet the first and last paragraphs manage to include a self-penned description of the author etc. as "humble". A little less of The Bard Of Govan and a little more Dickens would help.
Looking at the bright side if there are that many "Thoughts", and you only get your "Thoughts" aired if you are not a parasite, simple arithmetic tells us funding must be robust leaving other bloggers to look on with envy and jealousy and leaving belly and backbone in different postcodes.
https://za.investing.com/equities/micromega-holdings-ltd-chart
Quick update on King's company in Sth Africa , down 12% to 189 (from 215) so far today which is a reminder that this recession/depression is a global phenomena with very few safe havens . When companies get squeezed they call in debts , heavily indebted companies are the first to go . That may leave King with a dilemma in the near future if he needs to call in a loan to Rangers* to help Sebata . Be in no doubt that this virus is not to blame, it's merely the straw that broke the camels back from years of mismanagement, abuse and greed .
Timtim, I don’t know what to read into King’s share price being down. I read in the past couple of days that Celtic’s share price is down from the start of the year and you couldn’t get a more healthy club financially.
The people who manipulate share prices are gamblers nothing more nothing less.
@Jimbo it's future expectations , Celtic is healthy and well managed but it relies on a healthy economy to function well. When people lose their jobs or inflation kicks in then people have to make sacrifices . They cancel sky or don't buy that ST or strip etc . Historically football tended to thrive during recessionary times as people were looking for an escape but then it was an affordable pastime ,that's not the case now . Transfer fees drop, advertising revenue goes down , attendances suffer etc etc. A affects B affects C and so on , the strong can manage the storm and recover , the weak go to the wall. In this regard the laws of business are the same as the laws of nature. Your last sentence though is spot on , the economy for many is a casino and like Murray or Trump or King they play it using other peoples money . Debt is never written off it is merely added to the taxpayers bill or taken from the value of the fiat currency.
‘StevieBC 10th March 2020 at 11:25
But, I’m also referring to the fact that a public body is deciding which reporters are allowed to attend a criminal Court hearing – and which reporters, including citizen journalists, to bar from proceedings…’
#################################
There’s a piece by Dani Garavelli in the Scotsman which indicates that the number of journalists (and I expect those scribes will have the required accreditation & be NUJ members & thus aware of what is permissible to propagate from the court itself) is limited by the facilities, in a converted court-room, available to them. They’re not in court during ‘sensitive’ evidence; they’re listening to a link.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/dani-garavelli-strange-scenes-outside-alex-salmond-trial-2444730
The case is being widely reported: James Doleman is tweeting live updates. I fully accept there is a place for other non-professionals (I don’t mean that in any way disparagingly, BTW) to report on cases where there is no other (or very limited) coverage. That’s not the situation here.
Timtim,
I have to say that your posts on the mega rich scumbags are spot on, and Jimbo.ji sie is covering things very important, too.
I'm afraid I am rather three sheets to the wind having enjoyed a glass or two in the Lanzarote sun so don't ask me to expand on what I am saying…just be jealous
The mention of Court proceedings made me look at my emails where I see a judgment issued today.
Summary:
The [English] Court of Appeal finds that the Appellant’s non-gender identification engages Article 8, as there can be little more central to a citizen’s private life than gender [47-48]. In this case however, the passport issue cannot reasonably be considered in isolation, given that the driver for change is the notion of respect for gender identity across the board [71]. The court finds that there was no positive obligation on the state to provide an “X” marker in order to ensure the right of the Appellant to respect for private life. Therefore, the current policy of HMPO does not amount to an unlawful breach of the Appellant’s Article 8 private life rights [108].
Elan-Cane -v- Home Secretary
10-03-2020 10:50 AM GMT
Neutral Citation Number: [2020] EWCA Civ 363 Case No: C4/2018/2086 In The Court Of Appeal (Civil Division) On Appeal From The High Court Of Justice Queen’s Bench Division 10 March 2020 Before: Lady Justice King Lord Justice Irwin and Lord Justice Henderson Between: The Queen (On The Application Of Elan-Cane) – Appellant – and […]
(Just thought I'd share that with you!)
https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1237403965186363393?s=21
The SFA are springing into action.
Ex Ludo
Timely???
https://twitter.com/record_sport/status/1237322258135334917?s=21
”Floating “ pitch you say?
Ex Ludo 10th March 2020 at 16:54
https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1237403965186363393?s=21
The SFA are springing into action.
========
Now that the Hampden blazers have woken up – and asked a question about insurance cover…
Maxwell has rushed out a follow up statement;
"The SFA is doing everything in its power to minimise the risk and has today enforced an immediate ban throughout the Hampden hospitality areas: Corona Beer will not be allowed on the premises."
Interesting tweet re checking insurance , would point to the SFA actively considering closed door games and maybe more relevant putting the onus on the clubs for not protecting themselves . Are they just getting ahead of themselves?
I am slightly jealous of AJ sunning himself in Lanzarote as the Canaries were an annual family jaunt in Feb/March for me , Playa Blanca being my choice on that island . I have since discovered Madeira where I dream of retiring to ……one day. Actually I'm very jealous AJ , I really need some sun.
Timtim 10th March 2020 at 19:28
Interesting tweet re checking insurance , would point to the SFA actively considering closed door games and maybe more relevant putting the onus on the clubs for not protecting themselves . Are they just getting ahead of themselves?
==================================
I don’t think they are getting ahead of themselves. I assume that each SPFL club determines the level of cover that they need. I’d assume that Celtic would require, and pay for, better cover than say Livingston or Albion Rovers.
I don’t think that either the SFA or the SPFL have the resources or reserves to bail out anyone, at least at the Premier League level.
The Lowland League at tier 5 operates a group insurance policy on behalf of all its clubs. It’s a mandatory requirement that clubs subscribe to the policy. I guess that it is easier for lower leagues to operate such a scheme as all their clubs are similar in their size and needs, therefore the LL is in a position to negotiate a better deal for everyone within a collective policy
There's no way the sfa/spfl will be bailing any club out , they don't have the resources and wouldn't want to set a precedent even if they did.
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/03/10/risky-business/#more-15928
P MacG alluding to a certain club having let their policy lapse due to cash flow issues , maybe more wishful thinking than backed by hard fact but knowing how they operate and cut corners would not be a great surprise .One thing is for sure ,any club without adequate cover will not be able to find a broker now that will offer a deal.I also note that the return leg in Leverkusen has now been made a closed doors event so may benefit the away club more. Talking of benefits I see Mr Beaton will be the ref for Sunday's game , after his last performance in this fixture I don't know if that's the wisest of decisions , whatever the result the conspiracy theorists will have a ball.
https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/1237465959839019011?s=21
Inside the Mestalla.
The UEFA website 'news' page yesterday ,listing a few 'closed doors' games also had this :
"In addition, the UEFA Youth League match FC Internazionale Milano vs Stade Rennais FC, scheduled to be played on 11 March 2020 at 15:00 CET at FIGC National Team Technical Center, will not take place following the refusal to play of FC Internazionale Milano. The UEFA Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body will take a decision regarding this matter in due course."
As far as I can see from the website of the Rennes youth team they were prepared to travel to Italy!
I wonder whether , given that Bayern Leverkusen's home game v TRFC will be behind closed doors, they might properly request that Thursday's game also be played behind closed doors.
After all, losing home advantage by reason of 'force majeure' introduces an element of unfairness, ist nicht so?
Allyjambo 10th March 2020 at 15:08
I'm afraid I am rather three sheets to the wind having enjoyed a glass or two in the Lanzarote sun so don't ask me to expand on what I am saying…just be jealous
………………………..
Too scared to go see the Buddies, eh?
me, too. (Huh, cmon the buddies! I have great faith… worked well in 2013….)
I’m in the fabled Playa Blanca, of which Tim Tim speaks.
nirvana for me. Done a shoal of hills, the day. Done rehydrating practice.
still logging on… for the big [must be soon!) crash….
Ex Ludo 10th March 2020 at 22:18
'..Inside the Mestalla.'
%%%%%%%%%
You know, when I saw that picture , I thought immediately of the 'winchers stance' statue in Buchanan St bus station, Glasgow. I always give one of the figures a wee pat as I pass.
That statue represents you and me and everybody else who has been waiting in a bus station or arriving at a bus station to meet a loved one after a period of separation.
And the Mestalla figure poignantly represents the humble football supporter , the very life-blood of the game, blind physically, but nowhere near as blind morally as our Football Governance people are who have caused immense damage to the game by their cowardice and complicity in sporting wrongdoing.
JohnClark@23.24
Yes, it’s hugely symbolic given the present situation. The statues at football grounds tend to be outside the stadiums. I’m unaware of anything similar to the Mestalla inside football grounds.
fishnish 10th March 2020 at 23:08
‘…Done a shoal of hills, the day. ..’
%%%%%%%%%%
Hmm! You’re surely not auld enough to have done that at Gullane? Wi’ Jock Wallace?
But enjoy, while we suffer rain and cold neverendingly, or so it seems.
All is well again down Govan way with £20m incoming………….. at least according to the currant bun.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5372848/rangers-20m-investment-asian-hong-kong/
BTW, contrary to the Sun, neither George Taylor nor George Letham are directors of the club. However, they are shareholders with stakes of 9.24% and 4.71% respectively.
easyJambo 11th March 2020 at 00:12
'..£20million worth of investment through a share issue..'
%%%%%%%%
The 'Sun' piece seems to suggest that RIFC will go to the market in the knowledge that there is already a buyer pledged to buy what's on offer?
Barry Scott doing his bit?
To the tune of £20 M?
Oh! excuse me while I switch off the washing machine!
"closing in on " "could bring about" "sunsport understands" "poised" "could invest further" all extremely speculative language , More chance of Morelos going to Beijing for 20m.
This talk of £20m new money moving to Ibrox. Let's say it happens – where does it actually get them, other than ensuring they will win the Close Season Cup for a new nine in a row all of their own? That is of course the cup when no games have to be played therefore they won't need to worry about teams actually beating them. It will be the media who decides what team is going to sweep all before them in Scotland in the forthcoming season and award the trophies on that basis alone.
On the other hand getting a very Rangers friendly journalist to run with this story couldn't possibly be related to season ticket renewals, could it!!!!
Must be season book renewal time again.
JohnClark@00.38
Switch off the washing machine and start up the Mystery Machine. This sounds like a job for Scooby Doo and a group of pesky kids. The mysterious investors will probably turn out to be the janitor and an old lighthouse keeper who lost all their money when Rangers 1872 went bust. Tune in next week for the next exciting episode.
Well I'm just thinking about the day ahead in the Lanzarote sun (Playa del Carmen for me, Fishnish and Timtim
) and just wondering how often a story of incoming millions has broken at a time like this for RIFC/TRFC!
Still, if that news cheers up the bears as much as it's dampened my spirits, having tuned in in the hope of more deserving news for them, I suspect that within the next 3 weeks – till the 'end of the month' alluded to – if they are on sale, then a number of STs will be bought more readily than otherwise would be the case, I suspect.
I wonder, too if there's any significance in the figure £20m (it was a similar amount in the most recent player sale nonsense)! Could that be the required quantum for, say, survival?
easyJambo 11th March 2020 at 00:12
All is well again down Govan way with £20m incoming………….. at least according to the currant bun.
…
SunSport understands a mystery Asian investor and a Hong Kong-based backer are poised to plough millions into the Ibrox club,
…
SunSport understands both Far East businessmen have provided Gers with proof of funding.
=============
Aye, one of them will be Hong Kong Phooey!
Before reading about the 'proof of funding' my immediate, cynical thought was: announce that the deal was virtually done prior to the end of this month.
But, as it was not yet signed off for 'legal matters' the investors had provided a [worthless] 'comfort letter' of some sort – to enable TRFC to obtain their approved, UEFA licence for next season.
After approval, the deal collapses for various reasons.
Mibbees I'm being too cynical…?
https://twitter.com/garylineker/status/1237666249414520834?s=21
Looks like the Pools Panel will have to convene to sort out results for the rest of the season.
” there was no reason to treat the football club itself as “new” simply because the assets that make up the club had been transferred from one company to another”
There is of course, much more to what "makes up the club". Pesky things like; league membership/share, SFA membership, financial commitments and obligations, liabilities, debts and of course tax dues.
Conveniently, these can be forgotten about when dealing with the great Ibrox/SFA/SPL/SFL swindle. Compliant media including the spineless BBC provide the distractions befitting of illusionist David Copperfield.
StevieBC 11th March 2020 at 09:51
'…had provided a [worthless] 'comfort letter' '
%%%%%%%%%%%%
I'm laughing as I remember that ars.hole of a Del Boy- type who, in return for the loan of a few quid to pay his rent, gave evidence about providing a 'letter of comfort' regarding a certain individual 's ability to access millions.
Hi all, new poster, long time admirer of the site and content.
Couple of things I wanted to air If I may. Coronavirus impact and the timely £20m injection for down Govan way.
Will there be a theme by the Scottish football powers to 'postpone' rather than play games behind closed doors as seems to be the English answer? It is potentially the less litigious option for clubs' earning losses etc. Question is though postponed to when or Abandoned altogether after a period of time?
£20m injection to the Rangers, scant detail so far but as speculated through this blog, timing could be key here for at least 3 areas.
A positive news story for the fans to dig deep for SB renewals.
Lastly, if Phil is correct Stevie has been promised even more transfer market jam for the upcoming season to keep him sweet (pardon the pun) and to avoid the messy manager settlement that could tip them over the edge and bring UK wide attention.
I have a soft spot for Accies. Does anyone know the charged brought to Imrie? It seems all we know is it's regarding a 'yellow card' from a couple of season's back. I believe you can bet on almost anything these days, can you bet on number of cards? They must have pretty substantial evidence of this I would think to be as specific.
"Douglas Park will also provide additional funding"
Why now ? where was he when they chose to go to Close and pay exorbitant rates, where was he when they went to Laird for an interest bearing loan ? So this mystery investor will buy 20m of shares at the new issue then buy King's shareholding out , hmmmmm, wouldn't that put them above the 30% threshold and trigger another offer for everybody elses shares? Was this proof of funding a verbal re-assurance that was seen by a BBC correspondent ? Fool me once……….
Julian Wolhardt name and £20 m crops up on Ibrox club forums. As mentioned previously what difference is this going to make if true. They have debts to pay UEFA ffp has to be adhered to.. Roll up roll up buy your ST now.
The £20m investment in new RIFC shares as stated in the Sun would mean 100m new shares being created at the apparent standard issue price of 20p a share.
The last RIFC AGM authorised the issue of a nominal £1m in new share capital. The nominal share value is 1p a share, so the issue of 100m new shares is the maximum approved at the AGM.
There are currently 260,631,982 shares issued. The additional 100m shares would represent 27.8% of the enlarged shareholder capital, so in itself would not prompt a full offer as it's below the 30% threshold, unless the investor(s) already held a stake in RIFC.
Not attempting to downplay the dangers of coronavirus , but why is football and it's fans being demonised ? Rugby Union is affected as well to a lesser extent , but why are other sporting events , concerts , cinemas and shows , Parliament even , deemed safe environments for crowds to gather ?
easyJambo 11th March 2020 at 13:46
The £20m investment in new RIFC shares as stated in the Sun would mean 100m new shares being created at the apparent standard issue price of 20p a share…
================
eJ, you should be the NOMAD for RIFC!
King wouldn't care if you're not licensed / compliant – and if you could do a 'homer' paid in cash, it just might put a smile/grimace on his coupon!
easyJambo 11th March 2020 at 13:46
‘..The £20m investment in new RIFC shares as stated in the Sun..’
%%%%%%%%%
Just to be clear in my own mind, this is not in any way a public offer, which would require a prospectus?
Just a couple of guys , or maybe 3, being invited privately to buy new shares?
Club 1872’s percentage will take a significant hit.
I wonder if anyone in a regulatory function routinely has a look at this kind of thing?
Re the SFA advice of clubs checking their Insurance policy. Any club that has it will know about and any that don't are too late. No Insurance Company would provide new cover now.
In short, the SFA's advice is a usual absolutely useless.
John Clark 11th March 2020 at 15:44
Just to be clear in my own mind, this is not in any way a public offer, which would require a prospectus?
==============================
A prospectus is not required as RIFC is not a listed company. Had it been listed, it would also be exempt from preparing a prospectus if the share issue was to be aimed at a limited number of investors (under 150).
Ballyargus 11th March 2020 at 15:52
In short, the SFA's advice is a usual absolutely useless.
————————————————
Ach you know the Sweet Eff a's Ballyargus. They speak in roonaboots ways.
I took it more to mean, "When yir deid, Dinnae run greetin' tae me".
FAO John Clark
Lord Bannatyne's opinion in the David Grier v The Chief Constable request for summary decree has now been published on the courts' website. Just the 108 pages to read
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/court-of-session
I've now had a skim read through Lord Bannatyne's "opinion" on the Grier v Police Scotland case.
It is clear from the document that there are opposing views from the two sides as to the interpretation of evidence, or the reliance that should be placed on same.
Lord Bannatyne decided that he couldn't grant Summary Decree as he considered that Police Scotland held a position that was at least defendable by argument, and that the matters could only be determined at a proof (trial) hearing.
As it is a live case, I won't offer my opinion on how the case will play out, other than to say that the document suggests failings or inconsistencies in the accounts of both sides.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premiership/table
Error on BBC website – there’s a surprise! – They have ‘Rangers’ on 70 points instead of 67. The GD for Celtic & ‘Rangers’ wrong too, also to ‘Rangers’ benefit. I have reported it.
Wishful thinking methinks!
@EJ
so 20m gets you 27.8% (under the 30% threshold) but "both are keen to become involved at ibrox and could invest further if king is willing to sell his shares."
how much more can they invest ? and who will buy King's shares because it can't be them ? Wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy out King and get the same %age of the company* for 12m rather than 20m then have 8m left over to pay for Kent . As usual none of this feel good story is adding up or making sense
jimbo
gone now mate
Yip that's it sorted Tony. I contacted their complaints dept.
SunSport understands a mystery Asian investor and a Hong Kong-based backer are poised to plough millions into the Ibrox club.
……………………….
I remember when the ibrox fan base use to demanded to know the identity of investors and hold back their season ticket buying until they found out who they were.
Changed days down ibrox way.
Cluster One
maybe it's a misprint and it's actually hong kong protestors
Sunsport understands
"I didn't say it was true"
"Yes you did"
"No Minister I said I understood it to be true , I may have misunderstood"
Isn't language wonderful
Timtim 11th March 2020 at 19:33 …
"…how much more can they invest .."
………………………….
They may not be buying jointly, of course, but as separate investors, spending 10 million each? …If they actually do exist and it's not a 'buy your season ticket now' ploy.
And McCoist said: “Who are these people? I want to know who these people are. I’m a Rangers supporter and the Rangers supporters and the Scottish public deserve to know who these people are…."
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
if King is willing to sell his shares.
………………….
Does that money then not just go to king and not the RIFC?
redlichtie 11th March 2020 at 21:58
And McCoist said: “Who are these people?…
=====
Will never tire of that quote.
He deserves to be reminded for the rest of his days.
(Did he actually ever apologise to that family?)
StevieBC 11th March 2020 at 22:56
redlichtie 11th March 2020 at 21:58 And McCoist said: “Who are these people?…
=====
Will never tire of that quote. He deserves to be reminded for the rest of his days. (Did he actually ever apologise to that family?)
—————————————————–
Far from it Stevie……It was dem pesky bampots wot done it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCifTCKJ5jc
StevieBC 11th March 2020 at 22:56
(Did he actually ever apologise to that family?)
………………
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1238002013562187776/photo/1
Corrupt official 12th March 2020 at 00:05
====================
First time I have seen that in its entirety. Well done to Al Lamont for asking the questions. It was amazing to find out there were actually other Journalists in the room, which you only become aware of when they collapse laughing at the feet of McCoist at the end.
What a huge problem the media in this country are in terms of fairness being applied in the governance of Scottish Football. If they demanded it and put pressure on the authorities constantly, then it would happen. Instead they were and are quite happy for rules to be made on the hoof to suit one club only.
upthehoops 12th March 2020 at 07:24
I note he took the huff a bit wrt "Clarity and transparency", when it came to his own contract lock-ins and remunerations. Maybe not as bone-crushing as the other outstandings, but still a major deterrent to potential buyers should they deem to engage any potential managers of their own choosing, who they felt may have done a better job for a fraction of the price.
easyJambo 11th March 2020 at 16:29
The most recent Opinion in David Grier v The Chief Constable is worth reading if only to clarify what Senior Counsel for David Grier meant when he previously (end of February?) said he was looking forward to cross examining DCI R (obertson). Looking at it from DCI R’s point of view it might explain the current empty shelves in the toilet rolls section of supermarkets.
I still can’t work out how far out of step you’d have to be (polite advice, impolite advice, cautions, warnings, final warnings…) before a Court ran out of patience with a witness in a fairly run of the mill Civil action and when presented by a Petition for Interdict, (presumably by David Grier), together with the evidence showing why Interdict was necessary the Court granted the Interdict.
The Opinion is also worth reading if you want to read a reference to a senior Scottish police officer conducting an interview and his conduct being described as “sectarian abuse”.
Who was it that came up with the line “The Greatest Little Country In The World”? Was that Alex Sa… ?
Nope, I think I’ll leave it there.
LUGOSI 12th March 2020 at 09:04 et alia:
Could it be:
Ultravox?
Ultraviolet?
Ultra Vires?
LUGOSI 12th March 2020 at 09:04
Having read the full document, you will know that the defence has alternative views on the evidence. I’ve seen a number of the CF documents referenced in Lord Bannatyne’s opinion and they do appear to offer support to both sides in their arguments.
The proof hearing when it is scheduled later in the year will allow the judge to assess whether or not DCI R(obertson) acted without probable cause and malice. That is a high bar in terms of the burden of proof required.
As you point out, Robertson’s cross examination will be interesting, assuming that he actually takes the stand.
easyJambo 12th March 2020 at 10:17
"……….As you point out, Robertson’s cross examination will be interesting, assuming that he actually takes the stand. "
………………………………
I've now read the whole judgment.
I think that Lord Bannatyne's judgment is the only one he could reasonably have arrived at-there are so many elements that actually need to proved/disproved by sworn evidence that there was no way he could say that all that was needed was to set the amount of damages due!
Indeed, I am inclined to think that the arguments supporting on 'absence of probable cause and malice' are not all that strong. Further, I'm inclined to feel that Grier's Counsel might be considering advising him to drop his case.
[The 'sectarianism' allegations don't seem to make sense, if they are based on some view that DCI R as an ardent 'Rangers' fan ( allegedly) was seeking vengefully to get at some religiously based sectarianism that was behind what he thought was a criminal conspiracy to kill his club!
Isn't the allegation made only in respect of the DCI's interaction with Philip Duff and over the latter's refusal to give access to documents? Duff was hardly in the mould of a 'Green Brigade Tim', even if he might incidentally be a 'Catholic' ( I assume that the sectarianism allegation is related to the supposed 'religious' divide between Catholics and Protestants!)]
I am intrigued by para 351. Why mention the former Lord Advocate, if the arguments relating to any actions of his were inconclusive, without mentioning what precisely those arguments related to?
I look forward to any trial. Would it be a jury trial?
John Clark 12th March 2020 at 11:39
——————————————–
The "sectarian abuse" was described as an attempt by DCI R(obertson) to intimidate the D&P interviewee. It was used as an illustration of the alleged heavy handed and inappropriate conduct of the police throughout the investigations, ergo a demonstration of malice.
I can't recall the context of the LA's involvement. The Whitehouse and Clark actions against the Lord Advocate are still live, so we may find out more when those cases eventually reach a proof hearing.
I don't think that the case will be dropped as Grier is covered by D&P insurance with Novae.
eJ, I think King might want you at Ibrox as his legal counsel as well as NOMAD!
Well played: you know your stuff.
John Clark 12th March 2020 at 11:39
John, I don't think you have to be a Catholic to be intimidated by a police officer making it clear he hates everyone who is not an Orange ba*tard and Rangers supporter like himself when in police custody charged with/investigated over an alleged offence against his beloved football club.
Bury’s demise shows Football League must tighten FFP rules, review says
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/12/bury-demise-shows-football-league-must-tighten-ffp-rules-review
easyJambo 12th March 2020 at 12:24
'..It was used as an illustration of the alleged heavy handed and inappropriate conduct
Allyjambo 12th March 2020 at 15:02
'..I don't think you have to be a Catholic to be intimidated by a police officer making it clear he hates everyone who is not an Orange ba*tard and Rangers supporter '
…………………………………..
I take the point about intimidation being intimidation however it is expressed.
I just couldn't see it as being motivated by sectarianism in the setting of an office in England and towards (I assume) an Englishman, assuming that Duffy wasn't a Donegal accented travelling supporter of Celtic!
I was intrigued by para [347] "..Lastly Mr Smith relied on various factors surrounding the detention of the pursuer and his appearance on petition. These circumstances I think can be construed as perhaps showing malice on the part of the pursuer. However, I believe they would have to be assessed in the context of the whole evidence led at proof."
—-
(Twice in my own life I have felt intimidated by the polis (with no sectarian under/over tones.!)
First time was in Shettleston,when I surreptitiously tried to read the desk sergeant's number with a view to complaining about his bullying, indifferent manner towards an auld wumman whom I had helped into the station, having seen her fall on her knees possibly having been hit by a passing car.
He was a right sod, leaning over aggressively to show me his number while telling me to 'get up the f.cking road now if you know what's good for you.'
The second time was a couple of years later, in West Campbell St, when I stopped to watch as a police constable had a guy up against the wall , quizzing him, and gave him a massive open-handed slap in the face.
The driver of the police car parked a few yards down the street yelled at me ' Hey, you, get tae f.ck doon that road and mind your own business")
There's a procedural hearing in the Grier case next week.
LORD DOHERTY – C Munn, Clerk
Tuesday 17th March Between 10.00am and 1.00pm
Procedural Hearing
CA86/19 David Grier v Philip Gormley – Kennedys Scotland – Ledingham Chalmers LLP
John Clark 12th March 2020 at 16:39
Luckily you met good ones !
I think it can be said that the Ibrox pitch is a disgrace – even dangerous for the players, imo – and it would make sense in my eyes to move Sunday's fixture to Parkhead and play this one after the split . It should be relatively easy to arrange the 800 away supporters tickets , and the home support use ST's as normal . Even catering supplies could be utilised .
So to clarify. According to the Scottish Government it will be fine to attend an event of more than 500 people until 23:59rs, Sunday 15th March. A minute later it won't be.
I wonder if there is a condition in the 5-Way-Agreement to cover this!
Yep, that tatty field of a pitch at Ibrox is certainly not conducive to playing entertaining, passing footy.
…and, I wonder who it was who lobbied Sturgeon to 'helpfully' delay the ban until Monday…?
For any favour, could someone at BT Sport put Alex Rae in a 'press' (as in the auld Scots word for cupboard)?
Its all very well point scoring regards whether or not anyone and everyone is trying to help T'Rangers get the much needed gate and hospitality cash from Sundays game but lets not kid ourselves that the 800 or so Celtic briefs won't be taken up for the chance to see their rivals put to their enemy to the sword at home.
Be it a virus, terror related incidents, military coups etc, the most fervent football fans (i.e fanatics) will always try and do whatever it takes to attend games they believe to be of importance.
If people were that concerned the stadium, in all sections, would be empty regardless of what the powers that be said.
wottpi 12th March 2020 at 21:20
Its all very well point scoring regards whether or not anyone and everyone is trying to help T'Rangers get the much needed gate and hospitality cash from Sundays game
—————————————————————
A fair enough comment wottpi, and I offer no argument, but it's not about dumbos who care, or care not about catching the disease. It's about limiting the spread of the disease onto the wider population. Containment and control.
With fans arriving and returning, from and to far and wide, there is no sense in permitting such a mass gathering. I say that in relation to all matches…..There will be a lot more deaths, and one additional fatality due to a fitba' match is one too many.
wottpi 12th March 2020 at 21:20
‘…Its all very well point scoring regards whether or not anyone and everyone is trying to help T’Rangers get the much needed gate and hospitality cash from Sundays game ‘
…………………………
Well, wottpi, we have already had a First Minister trying to influence HMRC in the matter of the tax debt owed by a now defunct, tax-cheat and sporting cheat, of a football club.
Now we have a First Minister being specially careful to to choose a date ,for a ban on large assemblies ,that makes sure that a very important game for a cash-strapped club that claims to be the same club as the club that a former first First Minister lobbied for, can go ahead.
How or what are we to think -other than suspiciously?
That is the real evil that the 5-Way Agreement has inflicted on Scottish Football-there is a belief that no trust whatsoever can be placed in anything that is said, done, or pronounced by the Scottish Government or the Football Authorities that relates to TRFC in any way or context.
That is the damnable thing!
Trust has been so broken that it’s difficult to see how it can be restored;
except by acknowledgement of error by the Football Governance people in a statement that restores truth to the records of football.
Jingso.Jimsie 12th March 2020 at 20:57
‘….For any favour,..’
……………..
I once had a teacher of French who used that expression ( perhaps as a genteel equivalent of ‘ah, for f..ks sake!’)
He was the guy who first drew our attention to the football reports of the late Cyril Horne in the old Glasgow Herald as being examples of almost poetic prose.
He himself was not in the least interested in football, being not at all a sports person ( although it was rumoured that he had played cricket at Cambridge University)
Eh, you’re not his grandson, by any chance?
paddy malarkey 12th March 2020 at 16:51
'..Luckily you met good ones !'
……………….
And of course the most of them are good ones!
And I would without hesitation, and in so far as I was able ,go to the help of a uniformed police officer if he/she was being set upon in the street.
A near neighbour is a lovely policewoman, the daughter of a good friend is a policewoman , and in the mid 1960s I myself toyed with the idea of joining the London Metropolitan polis.
There will always be a percentage of bad articles in any 'profession'.
In relation to Scottish Football governance that percentage reached unacceptable levels.
The rationale behind the proposed arrangements for mass gatherings is anybody's guess but the sceptic/cynic in me thinks there can't be many institutions banking, literally, on hosting about 100,000 customers in four days and it seems to not be a problem.
There's still time for the authorities to show they are serious and announce draconian measures commencing about 2 o'clock on Sunday afternoon.
Permitting spectators at a fitba' match during this unique and dangeous time is madness. It has the potential to make the previous Ibrox disasters look like a teddy bears picnic. There is no need to even attend, or be in the slightest bit interested in fitba', to become one of the hundreds possibly thousands, of victims. .
Only the other day we had Slippy Gee telling us that players need protection….From themselves…
over a comment Tav made about his team having no bottle. Awwww poor luvvies!
Who will ,..who can?, protect the elderly and infirm, probably even the healthy from this lethal plague, should this mass gathering be permitted.
It is worse than irresponsible. It is so easily preventable.
John Clark 12th March 2020 at 22:46
=========================
Spot on John. Ever since the Scottish First Minister / football authorities tried so hard in 2012 to have Rangers illegal tax avoidance overlooked we have every right to question their motives. If some people believe the financial health of Rangers is more important than the health of the nation then that is exactly the type of suspicion the mistrust you speak of tends to create. I would like to think the current First Minister would not prioritise matters in such a way but who knows what talks have taken place behind the scenes and who has been able to influence them.
Perhaps it’s best summed up by some of the usual suspects in the media. On Radio Clyde two nights ago there was a very solemn debate on how some things in life are more important than football. This was swiftly followed by some rather gleeful chat of how Rangers having a home crowd at the first leg, while Leverkusen would not have one in the 2nd leg, could be a big advantage to Rangers. In short, I don’t really think they could care less – all they want is Rangers to succeed by any means. Again, since 2012 if people suspect that is what it is all about above all else then the authorities and the media only have themselves to blame.
It astounds me that a total crowd of 100,000 is allowed within a few days of a ban on non essential 500 plus gatherings. Even if it’s only for the given reason that Police & Ambulance services are required elsewhere.
The Scottish Government and Scottish football authorities stink. Silence from the clubs of course. Money is king.
Just heard that both Chelsea and Arsenal [edited] can’t play at weekend as they have publicly declared that they have the virus in their squad/management.
The TRFC v. CFC game could still be called off if the virus is declared present at either club…? Or not.
IMHO, if the game is still on, then those with tickets have a personal responsibility – to themselves, fellow fans, their families, the NHS, etc. – to decide if they should really attend.
If they are of mature years, with the stipulated ‘higher risk’, underlying health issues, and/or they are displaying relevant symptoms – then they simply shouldn’t be anywhere near Ibrox – and regardless of whether they “haven’t missed a game for X years”.
The idea of banning mass activities in an attempt to flatten and elongate the epidemic makes sense to me as a precaution because throughout some of our society will need access to critical care and we must avoid it being overrun.
Critical care in the UK is already compromised by 10 years of austerity cuts.
For instance I heard one expert say we have less than half the hospital bed capacity per head of population in Italy.
Having read some Coronavirus stuff from Italy in the last couple of days where doctors are now having to decide which critical patients arriving are going to get the key intense support which can save them and which are being left unaided is quite disturbing.
I am naturally optimistic but I think that at this moment in time that the authorities should err on the side of caution.
The nonsense of our First Minister saying that one minute after midnight on Sunday that the maximum number allowed is 500 whereas one minute before there is no limit is palpable.
Scotland should not be playing Wales on Saturday behind a sell out crowd.
Probably last night’s game at Ibrox should have been behind closed doors as should all SPFL games going forward too.
That is until the players start to get the virus and then the season is probably over.
None of us want that but not enough is known and even one life lost because of our politicians and those who administrate our sports lack of decisiveness is one too many.
Shankly said “Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don’t like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that.”
A lovely quote but he was saying that with his tongue firmly in his cheek and would have agreed how serious it was today and how football has a serious role to play.
That starts with protecting its core stakeholders (us the fans) and should start now, not on Monday morning.
The current plans are inexcusable.
Finloch 13th March 2020 at 09:08
…football has a serious role to play. That starts with protecting its core stakeholders (us the fans) and should start now, not on Monday morning…
================
Agreed.
And that's why I'm curious as to what – if any – communication there has been between the SFA and Sturgeon.
And, if there was SFA communication: was it to demand an immediate ban to protect the fans, [aka the paying customers], or was it demand a delay to any imminent ban?
"The dugs in the street" know that this decision to impose a – delayed – ban from 0001 on Monday just doesn't make any sense.
In terms of youth football the current advice on web sites is as follows
As per the Scottish FA and SPFL Joint Response Group Update, ‘the Department of Culture, Media and Sport announced yesterday that, as things stand, there is “no rationale” for closing or cancelling sporting events in Britain because of coronavirus.’ The SYFA is in ongoing, regular contact with the Scottish FA, who are in turn liaising with the relevant experts and authorities.
All member leagues should schedule fixtures as normal at this time, whilst being mindful that this status may be subject to change as the situation continues to develop.
‘John Clark 12th March 2020 at 23:15
…Eh, you’re not his grandson, by any chance?
‘
###############
I very much doubt it. (Although there was a popular expression in one place I worked which went along the lines of, ‘It’s a wise man that knows his own father’, which I always took a a polite form of calling someone illegitimate.)
Maternal grandfather was a Scots-Irish railwayman. Paternal grandfather was a Scots-Irish miller (as in flour-). Both were born in the 19th century.
I suspect that the expression ‘for any favour’ is a regional Scottish usage.
John Clark says at 00.08
Apropos of nothing really (but to shift the focus away from Coronavirus topic for a bit), you took me right back to my childhood with your use of the term 'bad articles' – one of my late father's descriptions for the more anti-social and less law abiding members of the community (in our case Govan).
That's it – it has brightened up my morning! Hopefully I can contribute something 'on topic' soon.
All champions league and Europa games postponed next week according to sky news
Sky News Breaking
@SkyNewsBreak
·
57m
All matches in the Champions League and Europa League next week have been postponed amid COVID-19 outbreak
Elite English football suspended with immediate effect until at least 3 April.
Will the Ibrox tills still be open on Sunday?
If any of the players or coaching staff involved at Ibrox on Sunday, declare they have the virus in the next two weeks, Sturgeon, Doncaster & Maxwell should resign immediately.
That’s not to mention even the people in the crowd.
BBC Just Now
Scottish football postponed over coronavirus
……………………………………………………………..
Sharethis page
The remainder of the Scottish football season has been postponed indefinitely over fears about the coronavirus, the SPFL has confirmed.
Leagues and other sporting events have been suspended until further notice, with Scottish football the latest to respond to the spread of the virus.
The postponements begin with tonight’s match between Motherwell and Aberdeen, and Queen of the South against Ayr United.
Must stick in Sturgeon's craw that Scotland had to follow England's lead in suspending football, by 3/4 of an hour. She made a massive mistake when she announced her 500 plan starting on Monday! All to suit the establishment club's lack of money. Until her hand was forced. Likewise Maxwell & Doncaster.
Just playing catch up and was reading the Guardians article about Burys lunatic finances. One thing that jumped out. Having agreed a CVA the owner then failed to finance it, hence the club ended in Liquidation. Failure to pay football debts via the CVA is thought to have especially angered fellow clubs hence their expulsion from the EFL. A Phoenix club Bury AFC has been set up and accepted into a northern regional league.
why change the name? Even though expelled one imagines they will follow the back-where-we-belong brick road? Why do that with a different name? Unless they have specifically chosen to disassociate themselves from the old entity?
If anyone is wondering how the remaining matches will be dealt with – assuming that the season is not restarted.
https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/067_324__rulesofthespflasat19_january_2018_1518083042.pdf
I think the key phrase here is "participate in". If clubs are prevented from further participation in the league, it is up to the spfl board to determine the "deemed score" in all of the unfulfilled fixtures.
It would be up to them; but, I'd assume 1-1 draws all round.
There is no rule (that I am aware of) that would allow the board to void the league.
Just watched a news item on BBC News 24 broadcast live from Cheltenham. Very jolly and upbeat compared to the rest of the news which is of course dominated by the virus. It does finish today and obviously owners of thoroughbred racehorses won’t get ill ?
I can see the SPFL/pools panel determining all Premiership pre-split results , with the last five fixtures being played to determine league winners/European participants/relegation and play offs . With the other divisions , I'd determine results of postponed games as we go , in the hope we can play out the remainder of the season . Or , as a Thistle fan , void the lot !
Shamelessly plagiarised from Etims.
HP
surely per C52 the SPFL could theoretically “expunge” all results of all clubs for failure to participate (i.e complete) to potentially achieve the “void” outcome.
Whilst receiving all the publicity it’s not really the Premiership champion that is most contentious it’ll be relegation and playoffs that the real controversy will sit.
HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 13:24
' …the board may determine the deemed score in the remainder of its official matches '
………………………………………..
I kind of doubt whether 'any club' could be construed as 'all clubs', HP, or whether a temporary suspension of operations due to 'force majeure' could properly be regarded as 'ceasing to operate ' in the meaning intended by the drafter of the 'rule'?
It's quite an unprecedented situation- not even the Second World war caused football to shut down completely!
I think it's absolutely necessary therefore that the decision on how to deal with the situation should be made by a vote taken after options have been discussed and debated at a full general meeting of the members of the SPFL, and not left to the present Board. There is ample time for a whole range of options to be proposed,analysed and studied in some detail before such a meeting is held.
It would not do to leave it in the hands of the Board alone to decide what is to be done, with some token nod to 'consultation' with some members.
Smugas 13th March 2020 at 15:08
… it’s not really the Premiership champion that is most contentious it’ll be relegation and playoffs that the real controversy will sit.
==================
The Hampden blazers just might come up with a novel solution.
No really.
Perhaps club representatives could be summoned to report to the Hamdpen bunker,
where League winners/relegations/promotions – and the SC Winner –
could be determined via a televised, 'SFA/SPFL Dominoes Tournament'…?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51867989
The link to the BBC’s analysis of the situation in England is a bit more informative. It would seem the strategy is to play all outstanding matches asap, possibly during June and July after a Euro 2020 postponement. Reference is also made to the probability of legal action by clubs denied promotion or being relegated, not to mention prospective title winners.
Beyond that is speculation as the duration of the outbreak is unknown, but if this season has not been completed by say the end of August then, among other considerations and at the very least, European competitions would have to be abbreviated next season and Championships too at least in the bigger leagues. A 12 team SPFL might be easier to manage, with a 22 game season.
HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 13:24
oooo
The 1 v 1 scenario is interesting in terms of winners and losers, which would certainly be a consideration. Losers would seem to be Aberdeen, Hearts, (arguably clubs in the Play-off positions if these were to go ahead), Partick Thistle, and Falkirk. While other positions are not mathematically certain, even Brechin might escape bottom spot, there are points gaps which would probably make the outcome grudgingly acceptable, under duress.
It would also allow TRFC fans to howl about tainted titles, even though their own title aspirations are clearly gubbed anyway.
‘HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 13:24
If anyone is wondering how the remaining matches will be dealt with – assuming that the season is not restarted.
https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/067_324__rulesofthespflasat19_january_2018_1518083042.pdf…’
#################
I think you’re quoting the wrong part of the regulations. I much prefer Section G — ‘Fixtures & Match Officials’, where lurks a sub-section entitled ‘Postponement and Abandonment of Matches’:
‘G50 No League Match or Play-Off Match shall be postponed except on the instructions of the appointed Referee or pitch inspector or by the Board…
G52 In the event of any League Match or Play-Off Match not being played or abandoned or being ordered to be played or replayed, it shall be played on a date and at a time as determined by the Board.’
C52 deals with clubs in default. As of today, clubs aren’t choosing whether to participate or not: the SFA & SPFL boards (representing member clubs) have decided to stop matches being played. These matches are, currently, shown as postponed. The decision hasn’t been made (as far as I’m aware) to wipe these fixtures from the list & void them.
I’m sure the SPFL & SFA would like all matches played: that’ll be their plan until it’s just not possible. We’re not at that stage yet: however, that bridge may well yet have to be crossed.
Incidentally, the Scottish Cup Final is on 09.05.20, two weeks earlier than 2019 to allow for Euro2020 preparations. That tournament (should it go ahead) starts on 12.06.20.
There is a bit of wriggle-room available for domestic matches, if allowed by the authorities (footballing & governmental), to be played prior to the first match in Rome.
I do suspect that domestic leagues/cups will be at the mercy of UEFA & their sponsors & that EURO2020 will receive preference over other football.
JC
For the moment, there is no question that the clubs that began the season are still in operation and retain their membership of the league.
However, if clubs "for any reason" can no longer "participate in" the league, then I'd struggle to understand why this rule would not apply if they are instructed by the SFA/SPFL not to play their outstanding fixtures.
The rule is written in such an all encompassing manner that it does not only refer to the obvious insolvency situations – but to any circumstances where fixtures cannot be fulfilled.
The important thing is that this is the rule that allows the board to get their league competitions completed – even if no further games can be played.
From my memory of amateur/youth football, it is/was relatively common that when the weather creates unworkable backlogs, the league call any unfulfilled fixtures (at the end of the season) as drawn and allocate the points accordingly. The rule is there that would allow the SPFL to follow that precedent.
The problem with allowing the clubs in an EGM to decide is that a decision made in that way could be subject to legal challenge.
The board already has the power to resolve matters and get the season completed.
HP
I read ‘participate in the league’ as hold a membership of the league and not participate in the competition.
Certainly arguable?
Jingso Jimsie
You are, of course, correct that the matches are currently only postponed- via a decision by the Board.
My working assumption is that it seems highly unlikely that those games will ever be rescheduled. If I am correct, we then need to think about how those "missing" fixtures fit into the determination of league positions.
The rule I was pointing to, I think, is what will come into play when that time comes.
I absolutely love the caption on this picture. Says everything about today’s beeb I needed to know.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51872244
Ex Ludo 13th March 2020 at 14:57
Sorry , all my own work .Had to look at ETims to see if it was my post you were referring to . Great minds think alike , fools seldom differ .
If the leagues and Scottish Cup are voided this season ,so too would be the awarding of prizes and , more importantly for most , prize money . I think it would be fairest to divide each league's prize money equally among participants ie each Premiership club gets 8.33 % of the pot, teams in the lower leagues get 10% . Split any Scottish Cup monies between the semi finalists .
Fitba' eh…… Well known to deprive the ordinary man, or woman, of rational thought, compassion, and laced with self interest, not displayed in everyday life
There is only one solution. The league is declared over, and the existing league positions declared as the final overall positions.
Should the current measures be lifted enabling further games to be playable, subject to workers rights (the players and staff), a mini league or knock out tourney can be cobbled together to suit the available time frame. A one-off memorial mini league in honour of those stricken.
Regardless of gate size per club, the gate monies should be pooled into a central kitty, and used dual-fold.
One fold to be an agreed percentage, divvied up and equally shared amongst ALL clubs equally to ease their financial burden. The other fold, the remaining percentage as financial and practical assistance for the bereaved……50/50 sounds a fair starting point, but at the moment, remain variable dependent on the gravity of the final unknown situation
If it also be possible to complete the Scottish Cup 'mongst the remaining contenders, the SFA do not take a cut, or the clubs receive prize purses….. They play for glory alone, the proceeds added to the central kitty.
Je suis Scottish fitba' fans.
HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 17:31
"..The board already has the power to resolve matters and get the season completed"
…………………………………………………
That's what I'm afraid of, HP!
I'm not really understanding this .
From BBC three hours ago .
Sir Patrick Vallance, the UK government's chief scientific adviser, and chief medical officer Prof Chris Whitty have made the judgement call that it is too soon to impose severe restrictions at this stage.
Sir Patrick and Prof Whitty have also advised against the suspension of mass gatherings. Again, their computer models indicate this would be less effective and more disruptive than the measures they have recommended: hand washing and asking people to self-isolate if they show symptoms of the disease.
These measures, if correctly implemented, could cut the peak of cases by 20%, says Sir Patrick.
"People are very much more likely to catch the virus from a family member or a friend somewhere in a small space rather than a big space [such as a sporting stadium]," he said.
John Clark 13th March 2020 at 18:55 1 0 Rate This HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 17:31 "..The board already has the power to resolve matters and get the season completed" ………………………………………………… That's what I'm afraid of, HP!
…………..
I understand your concern.
BP
Any of the three relevent conditions ("for any reason") would trigger this rule:
1. Ceasing to operate.
2. Ceasing to participate in the league.
3. Ceasing to hold membership in the league.
The first is saying 'Does the club still exist as a functional entity?'
The second is asking 'Is the club unable or unwilling to play its league games?'
The third is asking if the club still holds membership of the league.
The reasons don't need to be mutually exclusive – but they certainly could be.
If clubs are told that their participation in the league has come to an end – no more games will be played – that (imo) meets one of the trigger points.
'HirsutePursuit 13th March 2020 at 17:31
Jingso Jimsie
You are, of course, correct that the matches are currently only postponed- via a decision by the Board.
My working assumption is that it seems highly unlikely that those games will ever be rescheduled. If I am correct, we then need to think about how those "missing" fixtures fit into the determination of league positions.
The rule I was pointing to, I think, is what will come into play when that time comes.'
###############################
I'll admit to not reading all of the SPFL's Handbook, although I may have no choice but to do so if sport is suspended long-term!
There will be nothing in their rules about 'completing' the leagues in the ongoing situation. Further, were they to utilise/fudge a current rule that doesn't exactly cover the circumstances that would leave them open to legal challenge as to competency/scope. As JC writes, all clubs would have to be consulted & an EGM called to amend the existing regulations in light of the exigent circumstances.
I don't think 'fudging' it is an option for the blazers this time.
In today’s very serious circumstances will an auditor require that any upcoming interim results are fully reflective of this? I’m think especially of any company where there might be an existing ‘going concern’ issue and the current circumstances might impact adversely on their future finances.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
JJ
I don't think it is a fudge.
Of course the rule is wide ranging in its potential application. But that's the point. It has been written to cover any unforeseen circumstances that may leave fixtures unfulfilled.
The fairest way of ending this season, is to play the postponed games when the crisis is over, even if the matches can’t be played until September or October. Then start the 20/21 season as soon as practicable. This would mean a ‘short’ season by playing less games, perhaps not having the League and challenge cups or just playing 22 league games instead of 38.
The only risk in this in this scenario is that some clubs might have gone to the wall through lack of cash flow due to the postponement of games for months.
Paddymalarkey@18.14 yesterday
I tried copying the photo from etims but to no avail. I am however going to claim the pools panel reference which I made a few days ago when we were only speculating about the shut down.
Now that the SFA and SPFL do not have the F part of their titles to administrate it would seem a good use of their time (both from keeping themselves in a job and from catching up with the paperwork perspectives) to tidy up some outstanding matters.
They could start with the eight years worth of reports from Broadcasters apologising on air to coins at Tynecastle with all the singing, objects launched onto the pitch, players and officials being confronted on the pitch etc. inbetween. I've lost count of the number of investigations or inquiries promised with little or no outcome.
Similarly the lull allows clarification of the Disciplinary/No Jurisdiction/CAS/Mibbee We Wull Mibbe We Wullnae European Licence, what's the word?…misunderstanding?; alternative facts?; misstatement?; deception?; concealment?; collusion? fraud?; lies? Can we settle on dishonesty? Covid-19 will be dealt with by the appropriate authorities; so should Resolution 12. The matters are hugely divergent and of greatly differing importance in many ways but they do have one thing in common. Neither are going to go away by pretending they don't exist or by wishful thinking.
What else can be done in the lull?
Isn't there still an outstanding decision on the fitness and propriety of Alastair Johnston? Who he? Ex Chairman of (checks timescale) Rangers. The original Club before we had to worry about metaphysics and The Big Sevco Theory. Either he is or he is not a fit and proper person to be involved in Scottish football so why not tell us which it is? That would allow one Club to know where they stand with…hang on, who is their current Chairman? Is he fit and proper? Doesn't matter if he's standing down; that is no answer if he shouldn't be there at all. How bad must Alastair Johnston's application look if it's worse than a Cold Shouldered Convict's? If the Authorities have any questions they could ask the two Police Scotland Officers who took a publicly funded flight to and stay in Ohio for a wee chat about Rangers.
This break might be a good thing to tidy up a few matters and at the end all shortfalls in income caused by the break could be covered by the sale of filing cabinets no longer required.
I think UEFA were always going to take some action; break or no break, but starting with the Buckfast bottle thrown onto the field/at a player (poor immigrant charity devotee and supercar enthusiast whose Grandfather once bombed a Lodge attacked by Catholic wine company) and the most recent and previous singing could result in some fairly stern sanctions. Sterner than in Scotland anyway where the sanction is the Authorities think about telling them, but don't actually do it, "Gonnae no dae that?".
While I'm here. I don't have The Twitter nor do I wish it but on the off chance he pops in credit, as always, to James Doleman for his High Court reporting in HMA v Salmond. Day one obviously had a blip which was understandable in the circumstances and was immediately resolved. My thanks for this, previous and unless there's an outbreak of reality and common sense down Govan way future cases.
Other excellent Court Reports are available…
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/coronavirus-football-fixture-chaos-scottish-21690859
Lugosi, yes this unplanned break could be an opportunity to address the myriad of unresolved matters jutting out from under the SFA carpet.
Being pessimistic / realistic though, I'd guess that the blazers would 'chap'
on your worthwhile suggestions.
Likewise, they'd no doubt give the following suggestion a bodyswerve;
The 'Referees Summit' in Perth in February of LAST year, where all the SPL managers, except Clarke, met with Maxwell to discuss the problem of unacceptable refereeing standards…
there was no published or communicated, formal outcome. There were some rumblings about VAR – and also about how the cost would be prohibitive for the SPL.
Then, absolutely nothing.
Just tumbleweed for the last year, whilst the officiating standards have certainly NOT noticeably improved.
There is also now a new Head of Refereeing Operations who was promoted from within the, erm, non-diverse ranks – and unsurprisingly nothing has noticeably changed or improved.
So…
an opportunity to get the SPL managers back around the table with the SFA to thrash out a proper action plan – with deadlines – to address both the refereeing structure and standards AND the definitive introduction of VAR, if even VAR-lite like some other, small European leagues have already implemented.
Now that would also be time well spent during this enforced footy hiatus, IMO.
Someone should give the blazers a shake – to wake them up before this unexpected window of opportunity is lost.
Another thought about opportunities in the absence of matches…
The bean counters at the SMSM could use this as an opportunity to review the cost of their football 'journalists'.
Additionally, with a break in media coverage, a certain club could take the time to review its own misstepping PR management resource.
This hiatus might force a number of unexpected – and possibly long overdue – decisions across the footy landscape.
I think if I was about to slap a £20m slab of cash into a fitba' club right now, I would be having 2nd thoughts. I'll wager even Celtic were glad to have signed the dotted line with Adidas prior to the indefinite suspension of logo viewing opportunities that are now diminished
With the possibility things may roll-over affecting next seasons fixture list, I know my season book money will be staying in my pocket for now, at least.
Difficult times ahead, but bog-roll it appears still needs to be paid for in the meantime……Incidentally, Short of sticking a roll up each nostril, what is it to be used for?….Any doomsday preppers out there.?
Does covid19 give you the sh*ts.
https://twitter.com/alexrae1969/status/1238758966970195968?s=21
That's the league sorted. Simples.
Corrupt official
no,it is just really thick people
Does this become 8 ½ in a row?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
tony 14th March 2020 at 12:44
Corrupt official
no,it is just really thick people
————————————————————
I dread to think of the virus spreading, because auntie Isa has a bundle under her bed, and relatives pop round daily to "borrow", a couple of sheets.
Personally, I'm a triple ply velvet soft full mitten multi-wrap kind of guy, and wouldn't be welcome. So I should be ok.
Corrupt official
i'm a whatever is on the holder type of guy
Ex Ludo 14th March 2020 at 01:48
The glory is yours and here's a photo . Had seen neither your post nor ETims article . Soz !
Is this what Armageddon's like ?
And apparently the shits arrive on the third day with covid-19 .
Further to my comment the other day regarding 'bad articles' (mentioned by JC), I'm still in diversionary mode from Coronavirus bombardment and Operation Null and Void – the latter fronted by the usual suspects like Alex (34 game Ibrox legend) Rae, and more subtly the SMSM in the guise of Keith Jackson in today's Hapenny Liar.
So … can anyone think of any of these (unsavoury characters) who may have graced (!) Scottish football over the years?
We don't live in normal times, and that of course includes Scottish Football. It is notable that the media are becoming very vocal that whatever decision the authorities make on this season, that Celtic being awarded the title is not on. Nothing else is ruled out, just that. I am not advocating for one minute that should be the case, but if decisions have to be made, there should not be a caveat in there which basically states 'we don't want Celtic to get to nine in a row, so let's hijack the situation to make sure it doesn't happen'.
I really hope the season can somehow be played out. Failing that I hope that the European and World Governing bodies issue rulings that all countries agree to adhere to. There is more to be settled here than the minds of fans of one Scottish club who can't stand seeing their rivals succeed, and will seize any opportunity to get their way.
There is no chance that the season will be played out unless there is an agreement to play behind closed doors. Even that is dependent on squads being virus-free.
The aim in the social distancing manoeuvre is to flatten out the peak over several months.
Doctor I spoke to today reckons we’ll be lucky to get next season started by the end of 2020. “September is for optimists” he said.
Paddymalarkey@13.29
Thats the photo I was trying to copy. Some famous names on that panel.
Ex Ludo 14th March 2020 at 15:55
Do you know who the guy beyond Arthur Ellis is ? And which of the current crop of referees would you trust to give an honest and unbiased judgement ?
paddy malarkey
None
In a certain mindset we have now moved on from the season being null and void to Celtic will restart their "in a row" sequence when it happens.
So the 20/21 season, if Celtic won it, would not be 9-in-a-row. It would be 1.
This from people who seem not to understand that this could cause their club even more financial difficulties. Particularly in relation to cash flow and how it might hinder any potential share issue. Who would want to buy shares at this time.
Paddy malarkey @ 1638:
The fellah with the centre-shed is Arsenal & England great Ted Drake. I think that it’s Baron Brabazon of Tara standing at the rear.
Imagine (if you can) being a Director of a new company* that has made a loss every year of its 8 year existence and having ……..ok I don't have to spell it out but seriously what do you do ? Somebody in the blue room has to step in and write the cheque as there is no overdraft facility , your loan shark says no assets no more cash oh and it's time to pay the piper . We are all aware of the litigation mounting up and the debts that are accruing , that there is no income but the wages still need paid . Do you pay March ? April ? can you go to Uefa for a sub to help tide things over ? Or do you take the opportunity to point the finger of blame at Covid rather than the appalling mismanagement that has gone on under your watch . Remember of course that the football side of things is not the main business for most of the Directors and their own business' will be feeling the effects of this economic downturn as well. To put it simply , has it become a luxury they can no longer afford? There is no share issue ,there are no mystery investors , the transfer window is closed and the general population is in financial limbo. One blot on the landscape is a 15pt deduction would leave a 28 pt gap with only 27 pts available and hand Celtic the title without dispute.
Just when are the Ides of March?
I can see the Scottish football authorities creating a dispensation from the current rules for any clumpany which is 'forced' into administration due to the COVID outbreak.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Heard Stuart and Tam say on the radio this could be the ideal time to start summer football and if it doesn’t happen then there is no point in discussing the subject any more.Can,t say I disagree but will the Blazers change,doubt it.
Jingso.Jimsie 14th March 2020 at 17:45
Cheers !
redlichtie 14th March 2020 at 18:28
I can see UEFA doing the same .
I know there are more important matters to worry about, but fitba' is a welcome distraction.
However.
Fitba' players are human too, with families, like the rest of us.(often overseas), They, or loved ones may succumb, need care, whatever. No-one is immune. There are no guarantees from now on in, until god knows when, if clubs will be able to field a full team.
The league is over. The Rebels have won.
Ex Ludo 14th March 2020 at 15:55
…………………..
Ctrl Alt print screen…Start, paint, edit paste, file save as.
A long way to do it,but effective.
There were several references this afternoon on 'Sportsound' to a meeting to be held on Tuesday.I missed the first reference so I didn't hear who was having the meeting: the 'joint response group', or the SFA or the SPFL.
Can anyone say? Nothing on either website referring to it.
Jingso.Jimsie 14th March 2020 at 17:45
Paddy malarkey @ 1638:
The fellah with the centre-shed is Arsenal & England great Ted Drake. I think that it’s Baron Brabazon of Tara standing at the rear.
When I first saw the picture I thought he was that Cathcart MP of days gone by, Teddy Taylor.
Ballyargus 14th March 2020 at 22:16
'… I thought he was that Cathcart MP of days gone by, Teddy Taylor..'
………………..
Aw, hey,Ballyargus, steady wi' the 'days gone by'! They were my not so early adult years, and are still quite fresh in memory!
When Taylor was first elected to Parliament, 'Cathcart' was solidly 'Conservative and Unionist'
But eventually, with the developing and massively expanding Castlemilk housing estate ( with a population as big if not bigger than that of the City of Perth) as part of the constituency, he eventually , and inevitably,lost his seat.
Only to find a nice comfortable, warm seat in Southend in Englandshire.
But you're right-I too thought of Teddy Taylor when I saw that picture of Brabazon of Tara (ffs, that we should have to put up with that bloody nonsense!)
John Clark
The meeting referred to may have been the one UEFA are holding by video link to all FAs
While the view that nature abhors a vacuum is evidenced by the number and nature of views expressed about football while there isn't any the exception to the rule is clear. Alex Rage's horserace Twitter entry makes it obvious nature is content to leave the vacuums between his ears and between his brain and his mouth/keyboard well alone. It is worth reading to see someone who has for weeks been telling us that the League is over (I huv tae sey thurz nae wey, fur me, thut they urnae gonnae manipulate the Sword of Domestos and in they terms get over the finishing whustle, even if oor songs they ur fine) have a sudden change of a black, black heart. Moreover it is worth reading the avalanche of responses which point out the many flaws in his analogy and the irony of someone in Mr Rage's position even thinking of playing the sporting integrity card.
Someone posted the other day about one or two comments about Uriah James being possibly unfair. They're not going to like the views on Mr Rage although as it's his own Twitter Account Mr Rage is present and able to defend himself (although, for the record, he hasn't chosen/isn't able to do so).
Three out of dozens of comments deserve Honourable Mentions.
The first is a group all querying in varying ways if a horse dies midrace and a jockey saddles a different horse is that new horse the same horse?
The second makes reference to the propriety of someone (speech idiosyncracies aside) with known Taxation issues working for, inter alia, (E)BT Sports.
The third follows Michael Stewart tweeting that in the current climate partisan rhetoric was unhelpful. Some wag observed that at some point in his long 34 games Ibrox career the legned Mr Rage thinks he played against Partisan Rhetoric.
Mr Rage's moronic Tweet was based on what happens next if…
At the risk of being simplistic:-
At 22 July 2019
The Rules and Regulations of the Scottish Professional League
Definitions and interpretations
A4
Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season;
C38
The Club occupying position one in the League at the end of a Season shall be declared the Champion Club of the League and shall hold the "The Scottish Professional Football League Championship Trophy" until the next Season's League Competition is concluded.
Are some people looking for complications which don't exist?
Are some people looking for an outcome which is at odds with Rules and Regulations which date way back in the mists of time to eight months ago?
Wishing, and hoping, everyone well, these certainly are trying times, however, on with the campaign to instil truth and honesty into Scottish football.
Just a small peice of speculation tying the latest discovery of £20m under the sofa (albeit a sofa in Hong Kong) and the cancellation of football due to the virus.
RIFC/TRFC PR machine puts out unsupported story that £20m of investment is on it's way. A couple of days later football is cancelled. (Speculation starts here) The club calls in the administrators but survives. Club hit with points deduction. Club claims it only entered administration as a result of the shutdown citing the now cancelled (because of the shutdown) £20m investment. Club successfully avoids points deduction because the good old blazers turn a blind eye to the obvious lies they are being fed.
Pure speculation, but once again a good news story breaks about TRFC, timed to meet some bad news (for everyone this time) about to break. If they are in as dire straits as we tend to believe, they will be desperate not to lose those points (not only would it hurt their season it would/could reduce ST sales) in the event of administration. Given a heads up from the blazers they find a couple of guys prepared to agree to a non-starter of an investment then keep their fingers crossed…
The TRFC £20m is absolutely real, but contingent on the absence of King. He wants 20p per share. Problem.
Coronavirus also threatens deal. Virus is also an existential threat to many clubs. Motherwell, Killie and TRFC are perhaps the deer in the Coronavirus headlights.
Trying to get @heavidor to do a podcast on these and wider ranging stuff hopefully within a day or so.
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 09:35
From what you know/have heard, BP, is it contingent on someone other than the new 'investors', such as existing directors, or are the new guys prepared to buy him out but not for what he (King) wants?
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 09:35
The TRFC £20m is absolutely real
===============
What would £20m get them though, aside from keeping the wolves from the door? The same sum and probably much more will also be needed to improve the team and attempt to reach the Champions League nirvana. There are no institutionally biased Scottish owned banks left. Illegal tax evasion is no longer an option. The so called glory days under David Murray were an illusion promoted by biased media people, and supported by a biased establishment. The one hope they have left is to seize on a world health crisis and hijack it to try and stop Celtic winning the league. It would be laughable it it wasn’t so real.
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 09:35
The TRFC £20m is absolutely real, but contingent on the absence of King. He wants 20p per share. Problem.
=============================
Does the £20m include the price they would have to pay for King's shares. If so then it's not really a £20m investment in the PLC. Based on the most up to date figures on their website 20p per share would equate to over £13m. Even if he agreed to half of that it would be over £6.5m
What form will the investment take, presumably a share issue with pre-emption rights for existing shareholders removed. Meaning even further dilution of the existing shareholders including the fans and Club 1872.
If it's not a share issue what is it.
upthehoops 14th March 2020 at 15:04
Agreed that the season needs to be somehow played out as there are fans of 40 senior teams who probably don't give a flying 'you know what' if Celtic were to be awarded the league. There are Euro spots to be played for and promotion/relegation battles a plenty along with a couple of cups still to be won.
I don't believe the 20m is real , it would make far more sense to wait a few weeks and get the whole shebang for £1. If they are waiting for someone to buy out King then they will be waiting a long time , if they are going to buy out King then add 12m onto the 20m then pay off SDI-Elite-Hummel-Memorial walls and Close which could be another 20m , then they still have all the outstanding transfer fees to deal with , sort out a kit deal and all this when there is no gate income and the future is highly uncertain. I do know that there was speculation about somebody looking at investing but this was based on a possible euro league forming that would include Rangers* and this was back in October . The picture has now changed dramatically.
Seems this unprecedented situation has a precedent after all….But I never thought I would read about it in the DR.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtics-title-demand-strengthened-key-21695876
wottpi 15th March 2020 at 11:17
—————————————
There is loads at stake, and a solution needs to be found. Ideally I don't want Celtic awarded the title right now, and for that matter I don't want Hearts relegated right now. Such things should be decided on a meritocratic basis. However, given we live in exceptional times, every option needs to be on the table, and that is why I hope the decision is made outwith Scotland. If it is made within Scotland then it will be made to suit one particular agenda, as it always is. The media are already on the case.
Timtim 15th March 2020 at 11:38
================================
I tend to agree with your opening.
With all the issues going on just now why put tens of millions in, particularly when you know that Rangers are a special case and that the Scottish football establishment will treat you as the same club anyway.
Wait until the whole thing collapses, buy the assets from the administrator / liquidator and start over.
You then have the £20m for building the club, don't have to buy anyone's shares, and presumably don't have the debts and onerous contracts. You can even have your own IPO to raise cash.
The only reason I can think for the £20m investment would be emotional.
BP seems confident that the £20m investment is real, I would be very interested in finding out why he thinks anyone would want to do this.
Homunculus
Reason I believe it to be real is that there are people like Douglas Park, George Letham and others who actually believe that TRFC are a worldwide brand. I think they believe that if they deal with kings poisonous influence and make peace with Ashley, they could stabilise the club and sell it, trouble free, to a trophy investor. Right now a trophy investor wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.
All comes down to emotion though. They really believe that. Malcolm Murray believed it. King believes it too.
Doubt they are correct, but that’s where fitba bites you on the bum.
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 12:22
====================================
Sorry, but they can't be that stupid.
They don't just have access to the annual accounts, they have access to all of the books and records. They know how bad it is, much more so than anyone else. They will also have their own accountants to interpret things for them.
There is throwing good money after bad and there is out and out stupidity.
Corrupt official 15th March 2020 at 11:46
The DR link is not working. Has the article been removed?
Ballyargus 15th March 2020 at 12:32
You will need to remove the &nbps from the end.
Copy, paste, remove that part and click "enter"
Ballyargus 15th March 2020 at 12:32
'.The DR link is not working. Has the article been removed?'
…………
I went into the DR website, not the specific link, and got it in the 'football news' bi.
It's only a reference to the time when Partizan Belgrade, leading by only 2 points after 24 matches of 34, were awarded the league title when football stopped because of the bombing by NATO.
@BP
If they do believe that (and they possibly do) it's because they are living in the fantasy world created by David Murray when access to dodgy bankers , tax dodging and the ability to sign English Internationals due to the ban on Europe made it all possible. Those days are long gone . You say " Right now a trophy investor wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole." which leaves an emotional investor (from the far East) who wasn't emotional enough to do a Craig Whyte or a Charles Green or presumably show any interest in the last 8 years . Sometimes in life (and I am guilty ) you believe what you want to believe because it's more comforting than cold hard reality . Maybe they also believe they can get 10m from Juventus for Kamara . As I said previously ,there was a genuine enquiry in October but it was based on a possible revamping of European competition and a great deal has changed since then .
Exceptional circumstances necessitate exceptional counter measures. I can’t really see football resuming before the end of 2020 at the earliest. Season 2020/21 could be written off entirely.
Should that the case then the SFA /SPFL should consider suspending itself and allow clubs to effectively go into abeyance outside their jurisdiction, until it is safe to resume. Clubs should consider going into administration and not be constrained by the SFA/SPFL rules on points deductions / football creditors / contracts etc. Administration would allow clubs to shed staff, including players, while they have no income, then re-engage them if and when they are in a position to do so.
Once the leagues are ready to resume then it could be done by invitation or application with priority given to former clubs. It could also lead to major and long needed reconstruction of the professional game, probably with many of the part time clubs in regional rather than national leagues.
David Provan writes
Under the heading Doncaster hasn’t a clue.
If celtic were awarded the title with eight games left, where does that leave the ols sporting integrity argument?
……
There is no sporting integrity argument you absolute clown of a man, any sporting integrity died in 2012.
He continues..
Besides given the choice i’ll bet Neil Lennon would want to play every game. He wouldn’t want an ounce of controversy around a ninth consecutive title. Putting an asterisk beside celt’s achievement would be unfair.
….
The goverment bodies never put an asterisk next to an ibrox clubs cheated titles,so why would they put an atrerisk next to a title that is won on the only fair outcome because of the coronavirus pandemic.
The guy is an absolute clown of a man.
And as this is not the BBC i invite the clown to come on to SFM and defend himself.
easyJambo 15th March 2020 at 13:01
Would that really fit with the purpose for which administration was introduced.
It sounds a lot like using a piece of legislation to achieve an end for which it was not intended. Mainly sacking people who have done nothing wrong, in order to avoid having to make them redundant and compensating them.
Big Pink 15th March 2020 at 12:22
people like Douglas Park, George Letham and others who actually believe that TRFC are a worldwide brand. I think they believe that if they deal with kings poisonous influence and make peace with Ashley, they could stabilise the club and sell it.
……….
worldwide brand…Hugh Adam put that to bed.
make peace with Ashley… Would not sit well with the ibrox fan base, the banter years would raise a notch.
the club and sell it….No one realy wanted the old ibrox club when it was going for a pound.
So what’s so special about horse racing? 44 races at 6 different racecourses yesterday in the UK. Today there’s racing at Carlisle and Market Rasen. To be absolutely clear, I’m not a betting man.
"Cometh the hour, cometh the man."
And for OUR Scottish national sport, that man is Ian Maxwell, CEO of the SFA since April 2018.
At any organisation in crisis, the rank and file – and the customers and other stakeholders – want/need to see strong leadership.
Maxwell has no business or legal or any other, known tertiary education or qualifications.
He has 7 (seven) years of business related experience – acquired entirely with one organisation: Partick Thistle FC.
That's where Scottish football leadership is currently.
This break in football SHOULD also bring into sharp focus the obsolete, old boys' network and well established 'Buggins' Turn' which permeates throughout the SFA hierarchy.
A meritocracy at Hampden, it ain't.
And this is the result: unqualified, inexperienced individuals deciding on the immediate future of the national game, which could have potentially, significant long-term impacts.
That is yet another scandal that the SFA – and all of OUR clubs – have negligently allowed to develop and operate unchallenged for decades.
This SFA leadership scenario of a relative rookie CEO backed up by the next-in-line, unchallenged appointment of a well dodgy President should never have been allowed to happen in the first place, IMO.
Does ANY footy fan feel confident that the SFA will handle the Corona virus fallout in anything like a competent manner?
Homunculus15th March 2020 at 13:35
easyJambo 15th March 2020 at 13:01
Would that really fit with the purpose for which administration was introduced.
It sounds a lot like using a piece of legislation to achieve an end for which it was not intended. Mainly sacking people who have done nothing wrong, in order to avoid having to make them redundant and compensating them.
=====================
It’s exactly what administration is for, when a company is unable to pay its day to day bills.
Scottish football clubs live hand to mouth for the most part with many only surving on handouts from their major shareholders.
What I outlined is perhaps a worst case scenario, but who is going to pay players wages if you can’t sell STs or have no match day income.
The football authorities have no cash. The TV companies will probably be able to terminate their contracts if there are no games to be played.
Many businesses will go to the wall if there are restrictions for an extended period. Football clubs are no different.
I’m in Amsterdam at the moment and I can see that bars and restaurants are being hit hard with the loss of customers. The Netherlands has a 100 limit on gatherings and the bigger pubs have been hit.
We were told last week that the UK won’t hit the peak for 10-14 weeks with probably the same again on the downside of the curve. That would take us into mid September in a reasonable case scenario. I can see lots of clubs having to take drastic action before then.
If fixtures can’t be completed this season then I’m not sure what the right course of action is. I don’t envy whoever has to make that call as the impact on many of our clubs could be disastrous.
I personally don’t have a clue what the correct decision is but hope people at our clubs can remain healthy, employed and financially ok. That same hope is extended to the clubs themselves and society in general.
Whatever the authorities do in Scotland, if decisions are taken here and not at UEFA/FIFA level, there is no chance everyone will be satisfied. Some people will use that outcome to push agendas/paranoid ramblings to fit their already predetermined views. Scottish football in a nutshell (but predominantly Celtic and Rangers fans) if you peruse the social medias.
Not even a global pandemic can get in the way of petty point scoring. Stay healthy everyone.
easyJambo 15th March 2020 at 14:24
Absolutely, if they became unable to pay their bills, I have no issue with that.
I misread you as meaning every club should just do it as a matter of course. My mistake.
I am of the opinion that games should take place behind closed doors as long as the players are not affected health wise , at least that way competitions can be concluded , (limited) income can still come in , games can be watched on tv and a backlog does not pile up for next season. It gives clubs a better chance of staying solvent than doing nothing . Players could always be asked to to take a temporary wage cut or have them deferred to later when hopefully life returns to normal , half a wage is better than no wage at all. I doubt they can turn to Govt for a bailout as there will be many more important business' and people that will need help before them .Season ticket holders could be asked to forego any refund in exchange for a reduction in next seasons ticket and I think most may do that. I know there may be some who think paying players big money is more important than paying for ambulance services but I'm not one of them.
Timtim 15th March 2020 at 15:12
==========================
In three weeks time we should have a better idea where we are heading. If there are no confirmed cases within Scottish Clubs then why not go for the closed doors option? However some media reports today indicate the Westminster Government are going to use emergency laws to end the season in any case.
The SFA / SPFL will follow what the EFL does, either on the basis of UEFA or Westminster instruction. They have no option really, and it's an easy course of action as it moves any responsibility away from them. The UEFA meeting is on Tuesday and with any luck that will provide a definitive answer of some sort. If it doesn't and simply says wait and see, or delegates decisions to individual member associations then the EFL will in effect decide for Scotland. In that event, I cannot foresee a situation where Liverpool are not crowned Champions.
Tear this to bits…..
Cancel the league cup next season.
Start the league at the end of august.
FIFA to move the first series of world cup qualifiers from September to February 2021 freeing up a midweek and a saturday.
By my reckoning we would need 5 weeks to complete the league and scottis h cup.
Playing sat/midweek it would take 3 and a half weeks to complete the league which would end on a Wednesday scottis h cup semis the following weekend with the final the week before the league starts.
That means we have until late July. That's over 4 months!
What's the rush
We should in the next few months have a better idea as to how this virus is evolving. It could be that by June the worst is over.
I just think that it's a bit premature to .come to any definitive answer.
HS
incredibleadamspark 15th March 2020 at 14:36
"..Not even a global pandemic can get in the way of petty point scoring."
…………………………………………..
I think you misread the situation, incredibleadamspark.
Many of us believe that Scottish Football governance was so corrupted in first, lying a number of years ago in order to slide some millions of pounds to a cheating club, and second, in bending every effort to accommodate a brand new club by allowing it claim sporting honours and titles to which it is not entitled by reason of the fact that they did not exist over the period of time in which these honours and titles (those of them that were honestly earned!)
We are ready to believe that the same governance body would be ready to the nth degree to bow to the wishes of those who support the new club and 'fix' things in whichever way was most advantageous to that new club. [The BBC this afternoon gave a huge uninterrupted chunk of airtime to one 'pundit' to insist that voiding the season was the only fair way to go]
There's no petty point scoring : just a stark reminder that the unanswered Res 12 question and the 5-Way Agreement demonstrated that any belief in the Integrity of Scottish Football governance is misplaced.
Timtim 15th March 2020 at 15:12
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I am of the opinion that games should take place behind closed doors as long as the players are not affected health wise
………………….
Some players may not be effected health wise, but some players family may be, i don’t believe it would be fair to ask players to play games when their mind may not be up to the task in hand.
How could any manager pick a team if half the squad may have ill family members, even the managers mind may not be focused on football
Hear, hear JC.
Absolutely: all footy fans should be able to simply assume that the governing bodies will do the right thing during this crisis – for the good of the game.
But we have all observed in the recent past just how blatantly corrupt the SFA and SPFL are – and how they work in tandem for the good of one club in particular – and above all else.
On the contrary: the Internet Bampots should be ever vigilant as it's not unreasonable to think that the Hampden occupants might try to exploit the crisis for their own nefarious purposes. Leopards and spots…
There’s things far more important in life than football but sadly many fans and the media see this as an opportunity for points scoring! Delaying the league causes no end of logistical problems when contracts run out and loan deals come to an end. To cancel a season where both Liverpool and Celtic are so far ahead does not seem fair, but then to award Juventus or Barcelona the title would no doubt cause serious legal fights by Real Madrid and Lazio! I don’t envy whoever makes the decision and hope UEFA propose a consistent approach across all nations.
If it’s left to the SFA, the only fair option I can see is to try and play the games up until the split and then award the positions based on where they are then. Cancel the international games (assuming the European championships are pushed back) and cancel the Scottish cup to free up dates to complete the season. By playing up to the split gives every team an opportunity to fight for positions and stops the likes of Celtic or Dundee Utd being robbed of a title win. Since the Scottish cup would be cancelled the final European place would go to 4th place in the league.
Higgy’s Shoes 15th March 2020 at 17:38
……………..
Some clubs have a lot of loan players and players who may have come to the end of their contract, some clubs may only have half a squad, then you have a problem with signing players who then may contract the virus, so many things to work out on this long road ahead.
John Clark 15th March 2020 at 18:29 ___________________________________________
John, I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with your description of the situation and many have legitimate concerns over governance issues in Scottish football.
There is also currently quite a lot of petty point scoring on Celtic and Rangers social media where speculation about potential outcomes are based on their own agendas.
Where a selection of both sets of fans believe the exact same media, newspapers, pundits, SFA, SPFL, government are out to get them. Where a global pandemic will give those in power a convenient opportunity to indulge prejudices to benefit their team and punish rivals.
Your view and my view can exist at the same time without anyone misreading the situation.
Which club could this be I wonder!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51901725
upthehoops 15th March 2020 at 19:47
A source told…
Alex put the phone down and move away from the table.
………………….
They want the season null and void but still want the prize money
My tuppence worth…
IIRC, if a player who has participated in a minimum number of league games, (10?), he qualifies for a league winner's medal.
This applies if he has departed the title winning club during the season or maybe suffered a season ending injury.
Ergo, for consistency, if the league card has progressed by this same minimum number of rounds/games, then the latest league positions should be valid if the league stops abruptly thereafter, IMO.
Conversely, if the league had only completed e.g. 9 games before the enforced hiatus, then potentially any argument could be deemed fair / reasonable…?
Cluster One 15th March 2020 at 20:08
They want the season null and void but still want the prize money
==================
Yes I saw that. Null and void surely means withholding of prize money too?
I have to say it's a concern that the BBC are only allowing the view of people who want the season to be null and void. Sportsound this afternoon was handed over to Neil McCann and Billy Dodds to make their demands. Likewise Chick Young and Tom English previously.
If we live in exceptional times, uncharted territory, whatever you want to call it, then nothing can be removed as an option. All of these people seem happy for anything to happen, as long as they get a guarantee beforehand that Celtic being awarded the title will not be permitted under any circumstances. Yet the wording in the SPFL rules seems to state the SPFL board DO have an option to end the season when they choose.
It really would be better if UEFA or FIFA make the decisions on this though. Upsetting Rangers fans who want to see nine in a row stopped at any cost will not be a consideration to either of those bodies.
Barcabhoy on Twitter just tweeted a table outlining the cash reserves of the SPFL clubs. Some dramatic figures in there. The tweet is protected and can’t be linked from here. Definitely worth a look.
upthehoops 15th March 2020 at 19:47
They only mentioned two specific clubs in the article.
Celtic and Hearts.
Homunculus 15th March 2020 at 21:01
They only mentioned two specific clubs in the article.
Celtic and Hearts.
====================
Yes, but they only reference 'a club' in terms of who is making the demand.
By Barcabhoys estimate. Rangers have 7 days before the cash runs out.
Covid-19 is likely to be around for some time to come if the predictions of Public Health England prove to be accurate. An article in the Guardian suggests that there may be a lessening of cases during the summer but a return later in the year.
I fear that we will be without football for a lot longer than the Sportsound pundits have so far been able to contemplate.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
incredibleadamspark 15th March 2020 at 19:17
'..Where a selection of both sets of fans believe the exact same media, newspapers, pundits, SFA, SPFL, government are out to get them.'
…………………..
There is such a thing as objective fact, of course!
TRfC is as a matter of sporting reality a 7 -and-a- bit- years old football club.
And RFC of 1872 was not stripped as it ought to have been of the dishonestly obtained titles and honours 'won' during the EBT ineligible players cheating scam.
And the Ibrox board recognised that they actually owed and were being dunned for tax actually and unarguably due.
'My' belief is founded on fact.
TRFC's 'beliefs' are not at all factually based.They may be sincerely held by the punters in the stands-but that does not make those beliefs square with reality.
"SPFL face call to 'null and void' Scottish Football Season" (BBC Sport Scotland Website).
I know that the reasons stated (fake noos?) don't really matter since UEFA will determine what will happen but interestingly they came from a source in the first paragraph to they in the second (clumsy grammar at best!).
I offered the view on here last week that this Operation Null and Void as its become known would grow 'arms and legs' from the usual suspects, and I believe the thinking behind it has become quite delusional and pathetic – for the reasons stated above.
@ExLudo
https://twitter.com/timtimbelgium/status/1239341751715991553
I've copied the figs here
They figs are from end of December and show they have been surviving on fumes and match day income , if they are correct then it's game over for a few teams
I note a certain Mr Gerrard is keeping out of any debate on what should happen to the league. My guess is he knows it would be foolish to say on one hand Celtic should not get the Scottish title, while being fully supportive of Liverpool getting the English one.
upthehoops 15th March 2020 at 20:45
BBC supporting Null and Void Season
Driving north yesterday, instead of flying to Italy. I entertained myself with listening to Sportsound, not only Dodds and McCann, but Ryan Stevenson, Gerry Britten and Jack Ross too. I maybe didnt catch it all but that was not my recollection of the programme. I thought all of these guys gave reasonably fair summaries of the incomplete and ongoing story. I was especially heartened by the comments of Ross and Stevenson on the gravity of the situation regards journeyman players, end of contracts, paying mortgages, the health of communities, etc. Stevensons offer to return his pay to Stranraer as he is part-time and has alternative income was a credit to the man. Jack Ross was reasoned and articulate, and although Hibs chasing Europe/ top six, would not be as adversely affected as Celtic 9iar, Hearts relegation, Dundee Utd promotion etc.
They also discussed league reconstruction, summer football (or did I imagine that?). But overall I thought it was a fair attempt 'to fill airtime schedule' I didn't think, overall. it was in anyway supportive of 'null and void' season. In fact I believe McCann was of the opposite opinion of null and void, with comments that supported outcomes that benefited both Celtic and Hearts? (I remember saying to my wife that McCann will have upset a few Sevco fans there). We live in interesting times. and the situation could get a lot worst from a health point of view, however, my sense of fair play is that season should be completed by whatever means, be that dance offs, penalty kicks, tosses of coins, whatever. etc
The BBC get a lot of stick, but this programme was not the worst.
Timtim@00.07
Chapeau, as a certain Irish blogger says from time to time.
Headline from the GT today;
"Matthew Lindsay: Why it's time for invisible Dave King to sell up and move on"
====
Unsurprisingly, the article content doesn't add anything new for the Internet Bampots.
What is surprising is the tone of the headline.
It seems that battle lines have been drawn: did anyone expect King to depart Ibrox in a quiet, co-operative manner?
A bit of internal fighting – and settling of old scores in public – before the Ibrox cash finally runs out?
King has absolutely nothing left to offer, IMO.
Stevie BC @ 0914:
RIFC has found two unicorns with £10m each (or £20m in total) of new money to 'invest'. These unicorns apparently want King to sell up & be gone before committing. Doesn't that involve finding more unicorns to buy DCK's shares for £13m or whatever?
Who will buy them? As McCoist might say, 'Who are these unicorns?'
John Clark 15th March 2020 at 21:32 ————————————————————————————Again wouldn’t disagree with what you have written. There is good and bad content out there.
My totally subjective view is that on a fairly consistent basis social media is fuelled by petty point scoring, pearl clutching and playing to the gallery. I don’t like this.
It contains quite a bit of reactionary, ill informed, agenda driven opinion based on an individuals subjective bias.
There are also fantastic resources out there that on a fairly consistent basis contain plenty of comment and opinion that is measured, well informed and based on objective facts. I’m sure we both prefer these places.
Where websites/posters try to get the truth out there to as many people as possible.
Simply acknowledging that some Celtic fans and some Rangers fans have a propensity to, on occasion, talk mince is not the most controversial of online opinions. I hope.
incredibleadamspark 16th March 2020 at 10:56
'..Simply acknowledging that some Celtic fans and some Rangers fans have a propensity to, on occasion, talk mince is not the most controversial of online opinions. I hope.'
……………………
If you allow me to include the SMSM /BBC radio Scotland hacks and pundits as less pardonable 'talkers of mince' , I'd agree with you.
The difference is of course the fans talking mince are not being well paid for it. The media are!
If George Orwell had been Scottish as opposed to just writing on Jura then he might have coined the term ‘mincespeak’.
To be fair to BBC Sportsound they managed to make a reasonable fist of their discussions over the weekend as opposed to ClydeSSB who might struggle to meet the challenge of talking about football when there isn’t any. There’s only so far the horse racing analogy can stretch.
Galloways mince anyone?
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51909322
A DUP councillor is to swap Belfast City Hall for Ibrox after being appointed as head of communications and media relations by Rangers.
David Graham will resign from his position on Belfast City Council to take up the newly-created role at the Glasgow club.
Has Mr Traynor sneaked out the back door before the SHTF ? was he pushed ? As for recruiting straight from the DUP well…….goes well with the orange top , oh I forgot it's mandarin in tribute to the far east investors . Anyway an interesting move.
13. Please detail any membership or position of general control or management that you have in a private club, society or association operating within the Belfast City Council boundary
Name of Body
Orange Order (Worshipful Master)
Royal Black PreceptoryTaughmonagh
Young Mens Football Club – President (since January, 2020)
Extract from BCC register of interests re Mr Graham.
Timtim 16th March 2020 at 15:14
Yer man states
As a lifelong Rangers supporter, it is an honour to work for the world's most successful football club.
Except
1. Al Ahly – Egypt – 118 trophies
The most decorated club in the world, if trophy count is what should be believed, are Egypt’s Al Ahly.
Politicians , eh ?
WARNING this statement includes sporting integrity
RANGERS are continuing to monitor the ongoing situation regarding Coronavirus and its impact on football at all levels.
I reiterate Steven Gerrard’s comments this morning that football is secondary to the health and well-being of the citizens of the United Kingdom. Life is precious and as a society, we must endeavour to do everything we can to protect the most vulnerable in our community. As a club, we will continue to follow government guidelines and advice relating to the health and safety of all members of staff.
It is our firm view that this season’s league competition (2019/20) is only complete when all 38 games are played by all teams. For the avoidance of doubt, we believe that final standings can only be confirmed when all games have been completed, not before. Any attempt to finish the season with a significant amount of games still to play, impacts upon the integrity of sport in Scotland.
Furthermore, we are strongly opposed to playing games behind closed doors. Rangers fans have stuck by our club in the darkest of times. Their loyalty will not be forgotten and they will not be left behind.
We are cognisant of the uncertainty surrounding the future of many businesses and peoples jobs because of a potential lengthy extended break. We must be mindful that football goes well beyond the result of a match. Football brings us all together, it provides countless people with a livelihood and we will work to ensure no one runs roughshod over people’s lives.
We will continue to maintain a watchful eye on the decisions of footballs governing bodies. Let me reassure the fans that we will not be found wanting in this situation.
Rangers FC Managing Director, Stewart Robertson
Billy Boyce 16th March 2020 at 17:26
And the definition of "significant " is …… ?
Coronavirus: Rangers say fixture calendar should be completed 17:39 Monday 16th March 2020
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51913599
The Scottish season should be finished with all teams completing their fixtures, says Rangers managing director Stewart Robertson.
The SPFL has suspended domestic matches until the government or Scottish FA say otherwise due to the coronavirus.
The Ibrox club are currently second in the Scottish Premiership, 13 points behind Celtic with a game in hand.
"We believe that final standings can only be confirmed when all games have been completed, not before," he said.
"Any attempt to finish the season with a significant amount of games still to play, impacts upon the integrity of sport in Scotland.
"Furthermore, we are strongly opposed to playing games behind closed doors. Rangers fans have stuck by our club in the darkest of times. Their loyalty will not be forgotten and they will not be left behind."
Meanwhile. Rangers manager Steven Gerrard has said postponing the remainder of the season until later in the year due to coronavirus could have an adverse impact on players.
"Player welfare is paramount right now," the Rangers manager told Rangers TV.
"We're doing everything we can from a medical point of view to make sure all the right precautions are in place. I'm in regular contact with the board and the club on a daily basis to see what happens.
"I think we have to try and trust the authorities to try and find the right solutions. I'm not one who thinks we should be merging seasons because that has different types of problems for the players playing too much football in such a short space of time."
Why release that today when UEFA is to make it's decisions after the conference tomorrow ? And what are the views of the other 41 professional clubs in Scotland ? As a Jags fan , I think we had enough in the tank to at least get into the relegation play-off place , but if the season finishes now ,we'd just have to suck it up .
May I remind Mr Robertson of a previous club whose behaviour truly impacted upon the integrity of sport in Scotland :
“The panel’s report, written by Gary Allan QC, stated: “Only match fixing in its various forms might be a more serious breach. They brought the game into serious disrepute.
“In the case of the non payment of tax, which was possibly by the smallest margin the most serious breach, the massive extent of the failure and the intentional and calculated manner in which it was carried out aggravated the breach even further.”
Perhaps he would care to comment on that?
Scottish Football obviously requires a brass neck.
Jeezo!
How could you possibly make a media appointment who was worse than Traynor?
From the GT;
“…Rangers managing director Stewart Robertson added: “David shares our vision, passion and enthusiasm for the club…”
So, how does David’s ‘exclusive’ values align with the Ibrox club’s “Everyone Anyone” campaign?
I don’t think this chap will be starting in his new job – if anyone at Ibrox has an ounce of (commercial) awareness.
Dave – It's all gone Pete Tong
Jabba- I know
Dave- You better prepare the statement
Jabba- You mean THE statement , the one delivered from the front steps?
Dave- Fraid so
Jabba- Fukk that ,I aint going out there , are you mad
Dave – Well we need someone to do it
Jabba – you'll need a halfwit in a bowler hat with their knees dripping in Timmy tomata sauce
Dave – any contacts in the DUP ?
Jabba- genius , I know just the Stauncher
Dave – exit stage right
Jabba – exit stage left
tamjartmarquez 16th March 2020 at 08:16
===============================
Ideally I think everyone would like to see the season played out in full. However if some expert views are correct, it might not be possible to do so. For the last time (because I am probably boring people by now), I hope that UEFA come up with guidance that all Associations must adhere to. In my view the worst situation imaginable would be the Scottish Authorities making a decision on their own.
@David Graham
#everyoneanyone
https://rangers.co.uk/news/tag/everyoneanyone/
:LOL:
That is all.
Rangers* insist all 38 games are played , they also state they are against playing games behind closed doors . Funny how they were happy enough to travel to Germany and play Leverkusen without any fans . If the season is ended early and the title awarded then it also scuppers any plans to call an admin and take the 15pt hit this season , however if they were to call an admin before the season is officially halted then the 15 pt penalty would automatically hand the title to Celtic without dispute . No wonder Mr Traynor handed his lipstick over because this is one pig that can't be tarted up.
Timtim 16th March 2020 at 19:07
I reckon that there will be a lot more than one club facing admin events and a solution would be found , enabling them to continue in the league , but somehow mitigating points deductions or replacing that with a different sanction .
It's fascinating.
That TRFC statement is a couple of days late & yet it still manages to jump the gun.
It smacks of knowing that the season's over for them, but being embargoed from telling (by the SFA/SPFL) until UEFA does the tele-conference thing tomorrow & makes it official.
@paddy
I doubt there will be just the single casualty in the days ahead , I have ranted previously on the economic situation and this virus is just the pin that pricked an over inflated bubble that has been ready to burst for a long time. In some ways it may help to get some order back and an end to ridiculous wages ,transfer fees and ticket prices that have all but ruined the "peoples game" .
"Former Record Sports editor Traynor informed the Ibrox board last year he was planning to stand down after almost eight years when his contract expires at the end of May." another piece of news that just happens to come out after the event . I'm not buying it
About 5:30pm yesterday I was in a tram in Amsterdam heading towards a pub to meet some friends (two of them Dutch) before going out together for a meal in a nearby restaurant.
One of my Dutch friends phoned me to say that the Dutch PM had just announced that all pubs, clubs, restaurants were closing for three weeks, starting at 6pm yesterday. So with 30 minutes notice, thousands of peoples' livelihoods were hit, with no information or certainty of how they will survive, particularly if the lockdown is extended.
That is the reality of the situation, and here we are debating what is the right way to conclude a football season that is 80% complete. Only a few clubs have have comments attributed to them thus far, but each has given a "self interest" solution that will least disrupt or disadvantage "their" club. Self interest beats all in the football world.
The debate shouldn't be about who gets awarded what or who gets relegated. It should be about how to keep people healthy and, as far as possible, still in gainful employment. I suspect that a number of well run community clubs could fold, but could be reformed if there is a will to do so.
I don't care if Hearts get relegated, Celtic get to 8.79 in a row, or Rangers scream "sporting integrity" from the rooftops. Football is just a minor consideration in the bigger picture. If some of the more pessimistic predictions are correct we are heading to something not too dissimilar to war time measures where it was necessary for everyone to look after everyone else. The official football leagues shut down for several years during WW2, yet somehow it managed to survive, but all we are getting now are clubs getting their knickers in a twist about how to handle a 1, 3, 6 or 12 month break.
I think I have figured out which premiership club want the season null & void.
It is not Sevco. They have came out today and stated strongly they want the remaining games played at some point.
It is not Hearts, A. Budge has said if the season cannot continue, no relegations from the premiership. increase league to 14 teams next season.
So if it’s null & voided who gains most? If we restart with the position we were in at the start of 2019/20, Kilmarnock would qualify for Europe again. As it stands at the moment they are in EIGHTH PLACE and so little chance of Europe if the season was played out, or frozen at this moment in time.
ergo, KILMARNOCK.
Like the responsible folk we are, Mrs C and I are selves-isolating to reduce the risk of being infected by covid-19.
Accordingly and with regret I will not attend the Court of Session tomorrow for the Procedural hearing of Grier v Gormley, before Lord Doherty.
[I don't think I would've attended anyway:, because I think 'between 10.00 am and 1.00 pm' might mean any time between those times depending on what other business his Lordship has on his plate, and not that it will start at 10.00 and last till 1.00 pm!]
It’s not a Motherwell born billionaire this time, but a Paisley one.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-mystery-investor-revealed-real-21703185.amp?
Edit: Perhaps he is dyslexic and thought he was buying into a $1bn whorehouse.
Just looking if there are any potential vested interests within the SPFL board.
What happens if the board use rule c52 to call the results for the outstanding games (assume 1-1 draws all round)?
Motherwell finish 3rd and get a UEFA Europa League place.
Hamilton finish 11th and avoid relegation.
TRFC finish 2nd and get a UEFA Europa League place.
Dunfermline finish 6th in Championship.
Ayr Utd finish 4th in the Championship.
Brechin finish last in Division 2 and would normally be involved in a play-off to remain in the division (direct relegation unlikely as there can be no resolution to who would take its place).
Following today's statement I think we can assume that Stewart Robertson would vote against using rule c52 to resolve the outstanding matches.
Brechin's Ken Ferguson may also favour a "null and void" season as the safest option to protect his club's league status.
On the other hand both Lanarkshire clubs have good reason to bring the season to a close at this point.
So, in terms of vested interests in 'calling' the season, it's probably two for, two against and two unknown.
However, I think the over-riding fiduciary duty to protect the company's financial interest is likely to sway the three non-club board members. If so, they would probably want to use c52 to 'complete' this season's fixtures and protect its commercial contracts.
It appears that there 'should' be a built-in majority in favour of closing out the season. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Whatever Stuart Gibson’s net worth was 2 months ago you can bet your bottom dollar, if you have one, that his net worth has taken a hit as the world stock markets stumble.Most major businesses will be reviewing their plans and risking £20 million in an ailing Scottish football club would be very brave.
List of unicorn startup companies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_companies
https://www.esr.com/en/about_senior_detail.php?id=1&item=0
Stuart Gibson
Executive Director, Co-founder & Co-CEO
Appointed as Director in 2016 and re-designated as Executive Director in February 2019, Mr. Stuart Gibson has been the co-CEO of our Group since January 2016 and was also a co-founder and CEO of the Redwood group. Mr. Gibson is responsible for overseeing ESR’s overall operations and business development. He has over 24 years of real estate development and investment experience in Asia, which includes 15 years in the Japanese industrial real estate sector. Mr. Gibson was formerly the country head of Prologis Japan, and former co-founder and co-CEO of AMB BlackPine, which was subsequently incorporated into Prologis. He was also the Chairman of AMB Property Corporation Japan Advisory Committee.
Re Stuart Gibson. Obviously I know nothing of the man, and he may be a very nice man of the highest moral fibre and integrity, who speaks nothing but honest words, and does everything for the greater good. Aside from that his personal fortune, which is separate from the assets his company controls, may run to hundreds of millions, much of which he is prepared to ‘invest’ at Ibrox to ensure Rangers regain their ‘rightful place’ in the Scottish game. As I said he may be all that, I don’t know. What I do know is that he is guaranteed to be portrayed as all that by the Scottish media – such fawning, unquestioning admiration is automatic.
Why do I know that? I will give you four reasons why I know that. (1) David Murray (2) Craig Whyte (3) Charles Green (4) Dave King.
Do you think this is where trfc are getting money to stay afloat, the DUP with the announcement of new media mogul
The DR appears to have learned nothing and conflate company figures with a personal storyline. Mr Gibson may indeed be extremely wealthy but the article provides no real evidence of that or of the scale should it be the case.
The scale of the Ibrokes financial problem has however been discussed ad nauseam on this forum. Even before very recent developments someone who was prepared to enter the fray would not in my opinion be rational. The lack of interest in such investment over the history of the new club clearly supports this view.
We shall doubtless discover shortly whether this is just a press ploy to somehow ‘persuade’ the football authorities that the financial situation is being fixed and that a European licence should be granted for next season.
Scottish Football and media need a sniff test.
PS Still nae interims.
Like most Bampots, never heard of the guy Gibson.
(But then again, most had never heard of Whyte either.
)
The SMSM simply lifted – or were sent – Gibson’s photo and bio from his company website.
Well, we wouldn’t expect any journalism would we?
Lots of big numbers quoted – as you would expect with someone involved in commercial property development / management.
But, no mention of Mr.Gibson’s net worth.
Is it “off the radar” or not?
I think we should be told.
More holes in this whole ‘investment scenario’ than a Swiss cheese.
But, helpful to add a bit of detail to the story – and just when a Euro licence application approval is needed.
And/or helpful to convey that there are ‘wealthy investors’ interested in RIFC/TRFC… prior to an enforced ‘restructuring’ at Ibrox?
StevieBC 17th March 2020 at 08:18
Like most Bampots, never heard of the guy Gibson.'
………………………………………….
Come now, young feller! The Guy Gibson was this fellow. (You must have seen the movie!)
"Wing Commander Guy Penrose Gibson, VC, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar (12 August 1918 – 19 September 1944) was a distinguished bomber pilot in the Royal Air Force during the Second World War. He was the first Commanding Officer of No. 617 Squadron, which he led in the "Dam Busters" raid in 1943, resulting in the breaching of two large dams in the Ruhr area of Germany."
Didn't we all have these as kids? Maybe not at that price though! 🙂
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Airfix-Lancaster-B-III-Dambusters-Aircraft/dp/B00CA1MDIO
So Stuart Gibson is now the latest in a long line of 'life long supporters' of the clubs from Govan who apparently has money to burn.
Where were all these guys during the Murray, Whyte and Green years when both clubs needed them?
As discussed plenty times before, when Hugh Adam was keen to determine where the world wide support was, there was none to be seen.
It may be he turns out to be the sugar daddy they crave but on past form more likely just another bit of piss blowing in the wind.
As for their latest appointment to replace Jabba it just confirms what we all knew. Instead of turning over a new leaf and joining the rest of us in the 21st century they have been exposed as being : –
A horrible club then, a horrible club now, a horrible club forever.
You really have to wonder about the likes of Stewart Robertson and others as to where their moral compass is with this type of thing going on.
My guess is that it will only be a matter of time until the Worshipful Master comes a cropper with some ridiculous outburst.
'easyJambo 16th March 2020 at 23:50
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-mystery-investor-revealed-real-21703185.amp
…it’s understood the life-long rangers supporter was initially attracted to the idea of investing in the club around six months ago after discussions with current director george taylor…
Redlictie@09.28
I can’t remember if I built that model but it was the sort of thing that could be bought in Woolworths for not a lot of money. I do remember building a “Dog Fight Double” consisting of a Sopwith Camel and a Fokker Dreidecker. The latter came out the box already painted red. I suspect model building could become popular again as everyone self isolates.
I concur with Wottpi@09.34. The new Ibrox PR guy will eventually put his foot in his mouth or some embarrassing video will be uncovered from the past.
Jingso.Jimsie 17th March 2020 at 09:40
'easyJambo 16th March 2020 at 23:50
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-mystery-investor-revealed-real-21703185.amp
…it’s understood the life-long rangers supporter was initially attracted to the idea of investing in the club around six months ago after discussions with current director george taylor…
I see Stewart Regan has been wheeled out by the media to talk about maintaining the integrity of the Scottish game. A completely compromised individual who wanted to parachute new Rangers straight into the top league, allowed the Bryson interpretation on eligibility, was there at the time of the 2011 European Licence award, and who refused an independent inquiry into Rangers illegal tax evasion and how the SFA handled it. Who is this guy to talk about integrity, and why are the Scottish media promoting his views? Even by their standards it looks truly pathetic.
All part of a grander scheme? Talk about opportunism!
wottpi
https://twitter.com/tamsellicsoniii/status/1239653932810539008?s=12
Like this you mean
Is it not about time that the perennial Ibrox tyre kicker – Brian Kennedy of Sale Sharks rugby club – made an obligatory appearance…?
And this new PR guy will go the same way as the ex-RFC Director Chris Graham. In the job for a day / week ?
"Everyone But Anyone" (from a non-WATP background).
tony 17th March 2020 at 10:10
Yes indeed, saw that elsewhere.
It will be interesting to see if Michael Stewart has anything to say, given his disdain for what went before re the Govan PR machine!!!
wottpi 17th March 2020 at 09:34
So Stuart Gibson is now the latest in a long line of 'life long supporters' of the clubs from Govan who apparently has money to burn.
…………………….
as a Buddie pal of mine pointed out, “How can a lifelong supporter of an 8 year old club have built up a billionaire portfolio?”
Podcast on COVID 19 crisis
Stuart Gibson – Link to Cayman Islands
https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/person/21008469
I note Sevco don't want to play behind closed doors….No money in that I suppose…
I'm with you wottpi :-
A horrible club then, a horrible club now, a horrible club forever.
Regarding the govt pumping in funding BP re the podcast. I doubt any govt can justify funding players wages, when our vital emergency services will be coming under such financial strains.
I also think if your man Gibson has the stated funds, he would be better served using it to finance a CVA.
Good listen (podcast), agree with most of what David said , there will be no investment coming in from Japan at this time , there will be no assistance from Govt for sports clubs and a few will go under.
From BBC Sport https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/51924564
Euros has been postponed to 2021
The Norwegian FA have tweeted:
“UEFA has decided that the European Championship is postponed to 2021. It will be played from 11 June to 11 July next year. More information coming.”
Is it an easy solution?
In short, no.
Uefa has its own TV contracts and sponsors to satisfy, so moving the men’s Euros is not without consequences.
Other competitions due to be played in the spring and summer of 2021 that will be impacted include: the Women’s European Championships, the Nations League and the European Under-21 Championships.
Uefa wants to make sure these tournaments are played and will want co-operation from the leagues and their clubs to make that happen.
The Nations League was supposed to be 2-6 June. The Under-21 Championships was scheduled for 9-26 June. The expanded World Club Cup was also due to be played in June 2021.
Norway has gone rouge
UEFA had been trying to keep everyone tight-lipped over what was happening in their video conference calls today.
The final decision cannot be made until it is signed off by the executive committee.
But the Norwegian FA have ignored the edict.
It is what everyone was expecting.
Euro 2020 is to become Euro 2021.
From the BBC :
"Rangers*: Dave King has no plan to sell shares
Rangers chairman Dave King says he does not intend to sell his Ibrox shares but has confirmed plans for a share issue.
King announced at the club's AGM in November that he would step down from the helm after five years in charge.
Reports on Tuesday said Far East real estate tycoon Stuart Gibson is set to lead a multi-million pound investment in the club.
"I am not selling any shares," King told the Press Association.
"As I said at the AGM, we will raise new funds.
"No existing shareholders are selling."
The South Africa-based businessman owns a 25.58% stake in Rangers held by his family firm, New Oasis Asset Limited.
The Daily Record reported on Tuesday that Gibson is "on the verge of ploughing millions into Rangers and becoming the most influential figurehead in the Ibrox boardroom".
Rangers announced in November they would need £10m in investment before the end of the season after announcing an annual loss of £11.3m."
——————————————————————————————-
So what now? Has Gibson done a deal to invest only on condition that everyone stays onboard and possibly also ponies up some more cash? Dilution for everyone? A mix of equity investment and a loan secured on Ibrokes? (I was going to say security over Morelos but there is enough fantasy in this whole thing already and in any case that is surely against the rules and would be a threat to the integrity of the game, con't P.92)
So many questions and I can almost hear the SMSM beavering away getting answers to them….
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ScottishFootball/comments/fk5ano/tweets_by_a_stuart_gibson_from_tokyo_japan/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Fancies himself
@redlichtie
I refer the honourable gentleman to the opinion of Judge Brian Southwood
From UEFA
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/newsid=2641071.html
Has anybody seen this Stuart Gibson in the flesh?
Are we just to assume that the SMSM is accurately reporting that this chap 'has visited Ibrox a few times' recently?
Or is that just a load of old b*llox as well?
And secondly: if a potential investor had made his money in commercial property development / management, [and regardless of any 'emotional attachment' to RFC/TRFC],
…then why the hell would he even consider touching Ibrox with a smelly stick?
And further: to quote the legned that is John Brown,
"Where's ra deeds?!"
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1239958865900376064?s=21
Now we know why *Rangers appointed a GWM as HR guru. He’s got nothing to organise for the marching season.
Coronavirus: Scotland Euro play-off rescheduled for June
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51929297
Scotland's European Championship play-off against Israel has been postponed until June due to the coronavirus.
Uefa have confirmed that the match, scheduled originally for 26 March at Hampden, will now be played in the international break this summer.
However, there may be a further delay with the governing body, who have delayed the Euros until 2021, claiming the revised date is subject to review.
Scotland topped their Nations League group to reach the play-off stage.
If Steve Clarke's side were to progress beyond Israel, an away tie against Norway or Serbia would be the only thing keeping Scotland from their first major tournament since 1998.
"We are at the helm of a sport that vast numbers of people live and breathe that has been laid low by this invisible and fast-moving opponent," said Uefa president Aleksander Čeferin.
"It is at times like these, that the football community needs to show responsibility, unity, solidarity and altruism."
StevieBC
made his money in commercial property
will ibrox be aldi soon
don't know how to put photo on here,but looks like all nations have agreed to finish leagues by 30th june,
Has the new Ibrox media guy resigned yet?
Or is he going to be resigned, a la Warburton?
And whilst they're at it: the MD Robertson should do walking away too: looks like the incessant pressure running Ibrox has seriously affected his judgement.
"Everyone Anyone" my @rse!
Nothing much from the Grier v Police Scotland hearing this morning.
There was yet more discussion about disclosure of documents. Why this wasn’t resolved months ago, I haven’t a clue. The discussion went along the lines of:
Grier’s QC: We want all the documents and emails that you have (e.g. the CF database)
PS QC: We can’t do that for various reasons, , volume, search capability, data protection, etc., you will have to be more specific.
Grier’s QC: Since we don’t know what you’ve got we can’t be specific
PS QC: So it’s a fishing exercise.
Both QCs were ordered to come to an agreement on what would be handed over within 7 days, or he would decide for them (probably after another hearing).
The Lord Advocate was also represented and his QC provided Lord Doherty with some background on the CF database of audio files, emails and other documents. He recounted the expiry of Whyte’s domain, it being acquired by William Stevenson with access to the cache, it being sold to and passed onto the police by King, but not before 100s of documents were published via the CF twitter account. He also argued the the Crown didn’t need to handover anything as PS had a copy of everything requested.
On the future of the case, it looks like it has some way to run. Grier’s team want a proof hearing, while PS want it discharged. There was some discussion on expert witnesses, but not much progress. We can expect further procedural hearings.
Lastly on expenses, PS QC was looking for a ruling on enhanced expenses to be awarded because of the complexity of the case and new issues encountered. Grier’s QC disagreed and suggested that PS’s claim (£200k?) was unreasonable and that it should go to an auditor. As an example, PS’s legal team had claimed 200 hours for preparing DCI Robertson’s witness statement. Grier’s QC noted that was 5 weeks, working 9 to 5, without breaks, on behalf of a police officer who was already familiar with the preparation of witness statements. Lord Doherty wanted to hear a bit more discussion after the lunch break, before making a decision. I didn’t hang about to hear the outcome.
Coronavirus: Scottish FA ‘committed’ to finishing Scottish Cup
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/51935742
The Scottish FA says it is “committed” to finishing this season’s Scottish Cup and its preference is for the season as a whole to be completed.
The Scottish Cup semi-finals, scheduled for 11 and 12 April, have been postponed as has the final.
Scotland’s European Championship play-off against Israel has already been delayed until June.
Scottish football was suspended indefinitely on Friday due to the coronavirus crisis.
SFA chief executive Ian Maxwell says they “will consider future dates for the cup ties when the situation becomes clearer” but the decision to delay the cup final, scheduled for 9 May, suggests the governing body does not expect any football to take place before then.
Maxwell added that it is “difficult to envisage” Scotland’s play-off with Israel taking place in June, despite Uefa’s announcement earlier on Tuesday as European football’s governing body also delayed Euro 2020 by a year.
Hearts were due to face Hibernian and holders Celtic were to play Aberdeen in the last four of the Scottish Cup in just over three weeks’ time.
“It’s a flagship event for the Scottish FA and it means a lot to clubs, players, and supporters to watch their team lift the Scottish Cup,” Maxwell added.
“We want to give every supporter that can the chance to come and watch those games, so we’ll look to reschedule those games as soon as possible.”
The announcement from the Joint Response Group on the impact of the coronavirus, which has input from the SFA and the league body the SPFL, did not comment on when the Premiership and other domestic leagues might be able to resume but said only that the preference was for the season to be finished.
Hearts owner Ann Budge, whose side are currently four points adrift at the foot of the top-flight, says the club will consider legal action if the season they were to be relegated with the season incomplete.
Rangers managing director Stewart Robertson said on Monday the season must be finished to maintain the sporting integrity of the leagues.
I think Rangers* might as well go 100% in and announce a no Catholic signing policy . The orange tops and employing a DUP councillor as head of PR (with no PR experience) cannot be dressed up as anything but pandering to the extremist £ . I would call them dinosaurs but apparently they don't believe they ever existed . I would love to know who sanctioned this appointment , it could only be King,Park or Robertson (imo) . Is it an act of utter desperation or just total ignorance ? either way they have reached the bottom of the barrel and I sincerely hope the end of the road. As for their newly proposed saviour from Japan , if those tweets are accurate and he does refer to his female employees as "his slaves" then he is the perfect company for that company* . A vile club* for vile people and a sad day for Scottish football.
If I was organising a same sex marriage would I be able to book Ibrox Stadium for the reception.
https://rangers.co.uk/club/ibrox/weddings/
Asking for a friend.
#everyoneanyone
Homunculu
Don't be a dinosaur mate of course you would.. oops sorry Mr Graham
wottpi 17th March 2020 at 10:32
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tony 17th March 2020 at 10:10
Yes indeed, saw that elsewhere.
It will be interesting to see if Michael Stewart has anything to say
………………..
If Traynor is away? And i have not read any statement (And they like a good statement down ibrox way)
Was the Michael Stewart highlight, the final nail in Traynors coffin?
easyJambo 17th March 2020 at 18:43
Thanks again.
……………….
Timtim 17th March 2020 at 19:06
I would love to know who sanctioned this appointment , it could only be King,Park or Robertson (imo) . Is it an act of utter desperation or just total ignorance ?
…………….
There is an old saying that goes something like.
Beggars can’t be choosers, maybe it was the only kind of candidate that applied for the job.
No football related chat from me today. I just want to wish everyone on SFM and their families well, and hope we all get through this crisis and can one day get back to the normality of debating football.
easyJambo 17th March 2020 at 18:43
'..Nothing much from the Grier v Police Scotland hearing this morning.'
…………………..
Well done for attending, eJ.
In my self-isolation , I spent an hour or two reading through (without a great deal of understanding)
http://www.files.services/files/431/2019/1022/20200207164955_56565550_en.pdf
Needless to say I got lost after a couple of paragraphs of IPO- speak,
However, I was interested in the fact that the core businesses in which Gibson is involved are to do with storage space and the logistics of the space requirements of , say, wholesalers and shippers/transporters of goods.
Who knows but what he might have eyed up the Ibrox property as a beautifully sited location, logistically speaking: acres of space for storage sheds ,right on the motorway network!
I cannot help but think that the new PR guru is the perfect fit for what is ahead , a man to deliver the bad news as Traynor sneaks away quietly having lost all credibility. His experience isn’t in delivering effective and professional public relations or media management but in rousing the brain dead knuckle scrapers into action. A man who can march at the head of a delegation while banging his lambeg as they attempt to intimidate any who oppose a tribute act of a tribute act in buying titles from a club that bought titles from another club that won many of them by not paying their taxes. The flute is swapped for the dog whistle as the mob demand that to punish them from the effects of Covid 19 would be kicking them while they are down ,with a fever a bad cough and a sore throat .Desperate people do desperate things and this has all the hallmarks of desperation. Rangers1 was a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace , Rangers 2 was a permanent disgrace and a total embarrassment , if Rangers* 3 is allowed with these characters it will be an utter horror show.
Cluster One One
Might just be the preference of the guys who are currently bankrolling the fiasco . Didn't one of the directors say that one of the banned songs was a nice wee tune ? Tradition for some folk .
Darkbeforedawn 17th March 2020 at 23:07
'…hope we all get through this crisis..'
……………………..
I think it was really only today that I emotionally accepted the reality.
The medical chap I heard on Radio 4 chilled me with his statement that if the death toll is less than 20 000 we'll have done well!
Like you, I hold no such strong disagreement in the matter of 'football business' with anyone as would make me wish him personal harm from disease or illness!
I hope that any and all posters on this blog , especially those few (?)
who may be , like me, in the high risk category of age, or those of whatever age, who may have an underlying medical conditions, escape the virus or recover from its effects if they contract it.
Cluster One 17th March 2020 at 22:07
'.maybe it was the only kind of candidate that applied for the job.'
…………….
Well, I have posted once or twice that maybe they should employ me!
Or any of us!
The whole aggressive, we 'demand', 'we will fight' '“Let me reassure the fans that we will not be found wanting in this situation' is so 17th century as to be boring in the extreme.
There is not a director of TRFC or of RIFC plc who does not know in his mind and heart that they are out on a limb of misrepresentation as to factual reality.
They know, as we do and as the SPFL and SFA do, that SevcoScotland was not RFC of 1872.
They remind me of the film '' The Wild Bunch"- bad guys who know they are bad, but persist in their badness in being self-destructively evil.
Rangers appoint DUP councillor and senior Orange Order figure as new PR chief By Herald Scotland Online
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18309122.rangers-appoint-dup-councillor-senior-orange-order-figure-new-pr-chief/
A DUP councillor and senior Orange Order figure is to quit his role on Belfast City Council to take up the role as head of communications at Rangers.
David Graham will replace Jim Traynor as the new media supremo at Ibrox after standing down from his position as a councillor of the Balmoral district of the Northern Irish capital.
Traynor announced his intention to leave Ibrox when his contract expires in May after an eventful eight years in the role.
READ MORE: Police launch appeal after Rangers media boss Jim Traynor attacked
Mr Graham, who is a ‘worshipful master’ in the Order according to his registered list of interests, is one of the most senior members of the George Telford Memorial Orange Lodge.
The organisation drew criticism last year after allowing guests from the Govan Protestant Boys to march through Belfast City Hall during centenary celebrations.
Footage of the incident was later shared on social media, sparking fierce anger over
Mr Graham, who describes himself as a boyhood Rangers fan, was also special adviser to Education Minister Peter Weir before the Stormont Assembly collapsed in 2017.
He told the BBC: "As a lifelong Rangers supporter, it is an honour to work for the world's most successful football club. When the opportunity arose, I was very pleased to fulfil this role and am looking forward to getting started.
READ MORE: Michael Stewart will not appear on BBC Sportsound after 'change of plan' amid Traynor row
"I am excited by the board's vision for Rangers as we work towards our 150th anniversary and beyond."
Rangers managing director Stewart Robertson added: "David shares our vision, passion and enthusiasm for the club.
"We are delighted David has chosen to join us and strengthen our team. He is a welcome addition and I look forward to working with him."
Those amongst us with long memories who were movie goers from ages 10 will remember the days when a movie was around 100 minutes long or less and the show consisted of an A movie and then a B movie, one shown before and the other after an interval. (That’s when you got a choc ice)
If you got the timing wrong and turned up half way through a movie and if you were lucky enough not to get thrown out at the interval, you could sit and watch the A Movie part showing then leave when the A movie reached the part when you arrived which you had watched earlier.
The position Scottish football is in reminds me of those movie going days because it has reached the part of the performance when you think – this is where I came in, time to go.
No one could have foreseen the current epidemic (well maybe Bill Gates but what does he know?)
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/bill-gates-warned-us-covid-19-like-pandemic-watch-ted-talk-2015/
but you would think that after Rangers self destructed in 2012 and the toxic consequences of mitigating the financial consequences for all clubs, that at the very least there would have been an appetite for domestic FFP for good sporting and business reasons.
I am at loss to understand why this was not a requirement of the 5 Way Agreement apart from it being driven by short term thinking and desperation to keep the TV deal alive. Had some form of domestic FFP been introduced in 2012 the financial consequences of the current stoppage in play might not be as serious for one club in particular as David Low set out in the podcast.
To domestic FFP there now has to be added some form of bond each season set aside for the day when the rain becomes a deluge. Alternatively UEFA increase the solidarity payments to national associations to hold for a rainy day and reduce the rewards to the CL participants that might then reduce wage inflation, though not its main purpose.
A quote from Soccernomics I liked was “as oil is to the oil industry, so stupidity is to football” and it is going to take more than a rescheduling of games and restructuring of the leagues to stabalise Scottish football.
The governance of the game itself needs totally overhauled to allow men of vision and integrity a place, but also the supporters, who can draw on the wisdom and talents of the crowd to avoid those who do remain after the movie has reached the part they have already seen twice, deciding they are walking away for good.
The Chinese apparently say that crisis brings opportunity (not suggesting they started this pandemic to create opportunity of course) but if survival, not just in the short but in the long term thinking takes hold, the opportunity to create something more sustainable will present itself.
I’ve used the long spoon story before, but this tells beautifully what needs to be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mGVOekKMRs
not just in football of course and the coming months will be interesting to see which choice folk will make, a choice that will shape our future for better or worse and way more important than winning the banter war.
Auldheid 18th March 2020 at 02:24
I am at loss to understand why this was not a requirement of the 5 Way Agreement apart from it being driven by short term thinking and desperation to keep the TV deal alive. Had some form of domestic FFP been introduced in 2012 the financial consequences of the current stoppage in play might not be as serious for one club in particular as David Low set out in the podcast.
=================================
My thoughts are that domestic FFP will never be introduced as long as Rangers are behind Celtic. Of more immediate concern to me is why Rangers never seem to fall foul of UEFA FFP. Is there not a limit on how often a club can dilute existing shares and introduce new ones in order to keep financing itself? Why didn’t the mega rich owners of PSG and Man City just do that, and keep doing it in order to pump as much into the club as they liked? I have read on other forums that Rangers current accumulative losses over a period do meet the criteria for UEFA action. My fear is that in order for UEFA to look into Rangers finances, the SFA would have to raise a concern, which will never ever happen.
Headline from the DR today;
"Who is Stuart Gibson as Rangers new money man is revealed
Business writer Ken Symon provides insight into the man set to plough money into Rangers.
By Ken Symon 08:08, 17 MAR 2020.
UPDATED 08:42, 17 MAR 2020"
==========
"…provides insight…"
The article content is virtually lifted verbatim from his company website.
No quotes from the man himself.
No quotes from anybody who has ever met him or worked with him – or anyone from Paisley who is related to him, or even from anyone who claims to have known him at school!
IF it is true, when the article claims that Gibson has been visiting and attending games – including the LC Final at the beginning of December – then that would imply that the 'seriously interested investor' from Japan has effectively been kicking the tyres at Ibrox, up close and personal, for at least 3 or 4 months.
…and still no 'offer'.
To state the bleedin' obvious: I smell sh!te.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-potential-rangers-investor-stuart-21709740
A source said: “Stuart thinks it’s still a bit premature to make any official statement. He’s considering investing in the club but he has not been in talks regarding taking over the club from Dave King. He’s just a well-meaning fan trying to support the club.
“In the meantime, Stuart will continue to focus on his business in Asia.”
It’s understood no set timescale has been agreed between the parties but, with Rangers in need of an urgent fresh finances at a time of global crisis, the Ibrox club will be hoping Gibson’s cash boost will arrive before the end of this month.
This is the sound of a Japanese investment truck reversing at high speed, the final sentence in the quote above is quite revealing, "end of the month"
https://twitter.com/harrybradycu/status/1240005319914328064?s=21
Since there’s no football just now.
King has stated he won't be selling his shares , that's because he cannot find anyone to buy them . He has also stated the share issue will be going ahead , well that costs money that they don't have and is unlikely to raise any capital in this current environment not to mention the difficulty finding people to invest in a company currently run by a man who is cold shouldered. It's intended to calm debtors fears on the solvency of this company*. All companies will be having cash flow issues at the moment and calling in debt is "nothing personal , it's just business" . King's own business continues to lose capital down to 160 from 220 just 10 days ago, I doubt Mr Park will be doing much business at the moment either , but don't panic Mr Close we have a Japanese based uber fan with over a billion under his control and there's also our 100m rated loan player we can buy for just 4m. That's not including our other loan player who couldn't get a game at Hibs but is better than French Eddy . In my opinion it's all over bar the finger pointing and fortunately for King he can blame a number of factors for the collapse rather than his own disastrous mismanagement.
https://twitter.com/independent/status/1240223732666335232?s=21
What have the Russians ever done for us?
NEIL CAMERON: How Jim Traynor's replacement David Graham is a PR disaster for Rangers
By Neil Cameron Sport Columnist
https://www.thenational.scot/sport/18312937.neil-cameron-jim-traynors-replacement-david-graham-pr-disaster-rangers/
RANGERS are not a new club. They didn’t die in 2012. I’ve never believed that or written anything close to it.
Those who spend their life banging on about Sevco need to find a hobby. Or a friend. Those who believe a football club’s identity exists on deeds, who the owner happens to be or all that boring stuff usually aren’t that into football.
Despite me being “wan of them” I have never been intimidated or antagonised by any Rangers fan, have always felt welcome at Ibrox and – you can Google it – this column more than once asked those whose noses aren’t blue to stop their prejudice, or at least re-evaluate what they believe the average Bear to be.
The anti-Catholic signing policy was lifted 31 years ago. Rangers are still seen as a Protestant club – and I’ve no real issue with that and neither should anyone else – but I’ve seen for myself a significant cultural change within the support.
For every “FTP” mouth-breather, there are 20 who don’t want anything to do with that. Nor do they care what school a player went to. All they are interested in is whether they can do it on the pitch. Lorenzo Amoruso was captain. Rino Gattuso remains a cult hero.
Celtic fan Neil McCann got roundly cheered as he helped Rangers to two trebles and a double. The most popular player at Ibrox right now is Alfredo Morelos. Nacho Novo will probably get a statue one day. All “left footers”.
Sectarianism remains an issue because of the club’s history and because within the Rangers support remain people with King Billy tattoos. William of Orange had the political backing and private financial support of Pope Innocent XI – the Mo Johnston of his day. That never gets a mention in any song…
And because at every game anthems are belted out with blatant sectarian messages across an increasingly secular Scotland.
I’ve always been a defender if not a supporter of Rangers. I’ve met so many good people at that club. Most of my mates are Rangers fans. I was and remain of the opinion that more should have been done to keep the club in the Premier League in 2012; not that they didn’t deserve what happened to them per se, but the impact on the other clubs and our game as a whole was hugely negative.
To quote the great Kevin Bridges: “We had a two-horse league and we’ve lost a horse.”
But then they go and appoint DUP councillor David Graham who is a “worshipful master” of the Orange Order to be the face of the club.
No club is without sin when it comes to making appointments. Dundee had Giovanni de Stefano on their board – a jailbird, friend of terrorists and Saddam Hussein’s lawyer.
Vladimir Romanov was for years a popular owner of Hearts. Hibernian almost went to the wall under the, cough, leadership of chairman David Duff – a man with a perfect surname.
And as for Celtic, where to begin? Well, let’s start with John Reid as chairman, a man who is “at ease with his conscience” about when, as a Labour government minister, he supported the war in Iraq.
But we are talking about Rangers here and the appointment of Graham is, in my view, a bad call.
Why, when Rangers are supposedly doing their best to show themselves to be an inclusive club, have they given a job to a member of a Northern Ireland political party with links to many Unionist paramilitary groups that continue to haunt them.
The DUP is ostensibly anti-homosexual, has a pro-creationist faction within the party and aren’t keen on women having control of their own bodies. I had to check the calendar there to make sure this was the 21st century.
Speaking to Good Morning Ulster yesterday about his new role, Graham said: “The future includes everyone, irrespective of sexual orientation, religious background or cultural affiliation.”
His membership of the Orange Order is not illegal. Indeed, who am I or anyone to tell another person what to do in their spare time. But while the OO says it isn’t anti-Catholic, it wouldn’t be outrageous to suggest they aren’t overly keen on them.
Is this really the type of person Rangers need right now? Graham will replace Jim Traynor, a controversial figure who happened to be my boss for the best part of 10 years.
He gave me a job at the country’s biggest selling newspaper at that time and made me, at just 27, one of the best paid members of my extended family.
With him as my gaffer, I was sent all over the world to watch football and golf. I got to write columns with Ally McCoist and Jim McLean. I was given a freer role than most on the desk, at least for a time, a period in which I had my best times in journalism.
In so many ways I owe him a lot but I’ve never felt that. I don’t like the man. Anyway, it’s good that he’s going, it’s just that his successor shouldn’t be a DUP and Orange Order member.
Why didn’t they go for a bluenose journalist, there’s plenty of them, who would bring calmness to such an important role?
Instead the powers that be have acted like the Rangers from the bygone days. See, I told you they were the same club.
Sannoffymesssoutizz@11.20
“RANGERS are not a new club. They didn’t die in 2012. I’ve never believed that or written anything close to it.”
Anything written after that opening paragraph is completely redundant. The article could have been written by the great man himself.
sannoffymesssoitizz 18th March 2020 at 11:20
Neil Cameron: "RANGERS are not a new club. They didn’t die in 2012. I’ve never believed that or written anything close to it.."
…………………..
With those three sentences Cameron shows himself to be either a fool or a stranger to the truth, and a panderer to those who defend the creators of the Big Lie of the 5-Way Agreement at the cost of abandonment of any kind of sporting principle.
There's no place in journalism for such as he.
https://twitter.com/theclumpany/status/1240220626348134400?s=21
Scottish football needs a strong Nairn.
So Rangers think the league should be judged after 2 rounds of games – how about we do it after zero games therefore alphabetical order ie Aberdeen champions and Rangers relegated !
Cluster One 17th March 2020 at 22:07
…………….
There is an old saying that goes something like.
Beggars can’t be choosers, maybe it was the only kind of candidate that applied for the job.
Or
1, The fans are loving it, if they ever get a shirt manufacturer look out for hints of citrus fruit (not lemon or lime) in the colour scheme.
2, Massive squirrel. Though is that really needed just now.
3, GIRUY. Nobody likes us, we don't care.
Timtim 18th March 2020 at 08:49
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-potential-rangers-investor-stuart-21709740
A source said: “Stuart thinks it’s still a bit premature to make any official statement. He’s considering investing in the club but he has not been in talks regarding taking over the club from Dave King. He’s just a well-meaning fan trying to support the club.
“In the meantime, Stuart will continue to focus on his business in Asia.”
It’s understood no set timescale has been agreed between the parties but, with Rangers in need of an urgent fresh finances at a time of global crisis, the Ibrox club will be hoping Gibson’s cash boost will arrive before the end of this month.
And that extract just sums up the fairy-tale world the SMSM live in – business normally just doesn’t work like this. It can take months to thrash out appropriate legal agreements and undertake due diligence.
The ‘end of the month’ is 13 days away. A quick check with their business colleagues would have thrown up a red flag for any sports journalist writing on this subject. Quickly, the focus should pivot to why there is such an immediate need and what the consequences will be if the cash doesn’t materialise.
And the phrases “He’s just a well-meaning fan trying to support the club.” and “In the meantime, Stuart will continue to focus on his business in Asia.” indicates to me that he’s either had his desired amount of publicity or looked under the bonnet and quickly backed off.
My own view is that in a rational world RIFC/TRFC would go into administration very shortly with a pre-pack and new investment from the likes of the Gibsons of this world – picking up stakes in brands on the cheap. Much like Mike Ashley does.
What interests me is what role Mike Ashley might play – at least as king maker if not an equity holder. How much would he be owed or potentially owed?
Scottish Football need a strong Arbroath.
John Clark 18th March 2020 at 12:13 sannoffymesssoitizz 18th March 2020 at 11:20 Neil Cameron: "RANGERS are not a new club. They didn’t die in 2012. I’ve never believed that or written anything close to it.." ………………….. With those three sentences Cameron shows himself to be either a fool or a stranger to the truth, and a panderer to those who defend the creators of the Big Lie of the 5-Way Agreement at the cost of abandonment of any kind of sporting principle. There's no place in journalism for such as he.
_____________
Another one of those idiots who think they can state something as a fact without ever providing any proof, justification or reasoning for what they state. Of course, as he appears to be a Roman Catholic?/Celtic supporting journalist, he has to ingratiate himself to the bears, both thinking and unthinking, to continue to make that income that is better than most of his extended family enjoy – now putting something like that in print says enough about the man to chuck any suggestion of integrity right out of the window.
Interestingly, there's a lot more words in that piece about people (himself included) other than David Graham, the subject of the piece, than there are about that subject of the piece himself. And, of course, he says nothing new that hasn't already been posted on the internet by people not credited with the designation 'journalist'.
Anybody else fed up with the headlines, "Celtic will/will not, be handed the SPFL title?.
Too effin' right they won't !
If the title comes Celtic's way prior to the completion of all games, it will be by dint of the fact they are top of the league. Won more games. Lost less games. Whatever…..In short they will have earned it.
It will be a league won by merit alone, by the most worthy.
I can't recall a time ever, Celtic being "Handed" anything in Scotland.
There have quite a lot of views expressed on here about the fairness and morality of Sevco going into administration this season, and start the next one with a 'clean slate'
However, as I am a selfish CFC supporter, I hope they do (wishful thinking?), and incur the points deduction penalty which would render the League mathematically over – thereby handing the title to Celtic. 9IAR – and 'goodnight Vienna' anyway.
Oh wait a minute – hopes dashed! Here comes David 'my altruism and generosity knows no bounds' Graham with his £20 m to see out the season and pay off Big Mike. Aye right!
Not so much 'a rabbit out of the hat', more a 'rabbit in the headlights'.
Corrupt Official
We where handed a closing down order, does that count
Corrupt official 18th March 2020 at 16:17
===========================================
No Celtic supporter I know wants to be "handed the SPFL"
The opinion of everyone I have spoken to is that they want all games played, even if it is behind closed doors.
Quite frankly, and with no disrespect to anyone else, especially Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs, the Celtic supporters want to win the treble and they want to win it on the park.
There will of course be nonsense about the validity even if that does happen. Bearing in mind some supporters seem to think that any competition is invalid if they aren't in it, or don't have a strong team, or if their manager isn't up to much, or other teams have better players than them, or if the referees hate them … basically if they don't win it.
Homunculus 18th March 2020 at 16:43
No Celtic supporter I know wants to be “handed the SPFL” The opinion of everyone I have spoken to is that they want all games played, even if it is behind closed doors.
I’m of the same mind H, and would rather games be played in a safe environment, than not. However if deemed safe to play, (behind closed doors), I am not in favour of a “live” broadcast. I reckon that would only move the possibility of spreading infection around in pubs.
A full match recording following a scoreline black-out, broadcast after chucking out time would be my preference.
John Clark 18th March 2020 at 12:13 and Allyjambo 18th March 2020 at 14:58
Interestingly, there’s a lot more words in that piece about people (himself included) other than David Graham, the subject of the piece, than there are about that subject of the piece himself. And, of course, he says nothing new that hasn’t already been posted on the internet by people not credited with the designation ‘journalist’.
This is probably the most cringing application for Graham’s PR position that will ever be written.
Neil Cameron: "RANGERS are not a new club. They didn’t die in 2012. I’ve never believed that or written anything close to it.."
And the earth is flat too. Don't they teach journalists to actually investigate and secure underpinning evidence for any claims they make? Have they no self-awareness?
Scottish Football needs a strong Nairn.
PS Still nae interims.
redlichtie 18th March 2020 at 18:09
PS Still nae interims.
————————————–
Aye, They've ran out of the bog-roll they use to write them on.
Looks like Hearts players have been asked to take 50 % pay cut.
Looks like Hearts players have been asked to take a 50% pay cut.
valentinesclown 18th March 2020 at 18:22
Looks like Hearts players have been asked to take a 50% pay cut.
======================================
I think they will just be the first of many clubs to take similar decisions
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-1-2-3-4-5-6
Part of the statement:
Sorry about that duplicate entry it does not mean Hearts players will receive no wages. ☹
Hearts had budgeted £9m for wages in the current financial year for playing and non playing staff (advised at the AGM in December). That is £750k a month or £173k a week, so you can see the level of cuts being proposed.
It also demonstrates how Ann Budge has run the club finances in recent years, only spending money that she already had or was expected/promised. When the expected money failed to materialise, the club was exposed to problems paying wages. In an interview yesterday with the Edinburgh Evening News, she indicated that £1m of income between now and the end of the season had been lost. Uncertainty about the league conclusion, relegation and what to do with Season Tickets for next season will also be factored into this decision.
It also backs up Barcabhoy’s figures from earlier in the week.
Just watch for other clubs making similar “difficult decisions” in the next few days.
Yesterday's exclusive in the beano:
"Japanese based Scot to buy kings shares and take over sevco"
Today's exclusive in same by our keith:
"Japanese based Scot won't be buying out king"
Anyone remember the following headline
"World war 2 bomber found on the moon"
Followed a few days later by
"World war 2 bomber disappears from the moon
HS
easyJambo 18th March 2020 at 19:09
——————————-
I can't see Hearts being the last club to implement such measures. At least they have been up front about it, although if they hadn't been I am sure someone would have tipped off the media.
On a wider note you hear every day now of people being put on reduced or zero earnings. Very sad and worrying times.
Higgy’s Shoes 18th March 2020 at 20:00
…
Anyone remember the following headline “World war 2 bomber found on the moon”…
====
A classic tabloid front page: The Sunday Sport if I’m not mistaken?
As a teenager I was on a car trip with friends and we stopped for provisions – and bought the paper for a laugh.
That particular “World Exclusive’, IIRC, contained quotes from “a leading scientist” or “a leading expert”, etc. : no names.
Thank goodness the MSM has progressed since the ’80’s…
Now the SMSM uses;
“a source said”
“it is understood”
“an insider said”
etc.
If Keef came out with an abandoned plane on a moon or planet – at least it would give us all a laugh.
But, it looks like he’s just regurgitating the same mince from 2011, and just scribbled out Whyte’s name for Gibson.
Stoopid boy has learnt nuffink in the last 9 years.
upthehoops 18th March 2020 at 20:05
easyJambo 18th March 2020 at 19:09
——————————-
I can’t see Hearts being the last club to implement such measures. At least they have been up front about it, although if they hadn’t been I am sure someone would have tipped off the media.
On a wider note you hear every day now of people being put on reduced or zero earnings. Very sad and worrying times.
================================
Rather than make people redundant, large travel companies such as Virgin Atalantic, Emirates, easyJet and Marriot have all gone down the “unpaid leave” route.
It puts Hearts decision into perspective.
I appreciate people's thought process 're the announcement of a T'Rangers sugar daddy being timed for season ticket sales.
However the new reality is that, for all clubs, a good numbers of fans may soon not be in a position to even afford season tickets when football does restart, if people start getting laid off or see their business income streams dry up.
It really is going to be nightmare the way things are going.
Timtim 18th March 2020 at 08:49
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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-potential-rangers-investor-stuart-21709740
A source said: “Stuart thinks it’s still a bit premature to make any official statement. He’s considering investing in the club but he has not been in talks regarding taking over the club from Dave King. He’s just a well-meaning fan trying to support the club.
“In the meantime, Stuart will continue to focus on his business in Asia.”
……………..
It reminds me of the time when the ibrox club was in administration and all we read about was American tycoons, blue knights, Bill Nig The Brian kennedys and new bids have links to gers.
All just fantasy, and i believe we are going down that road once again.
upthehoops 18th March 2020 at 07:05
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Auldheid 18th March 2020 at 02:24
I am at loss to understand why this was not a requirement of the 5 Way Agreement apart from it being driven by short term thinking and desperation to keep the TV deal alive. Had some form of domestic FFP been introduced in 2012 the financial consequences of the current stoppage in play might not be as serious for one club in particular as David Low set out in the podcast.
=================================
My thoughts are that domestic FFP will never be introduced as long as Rangers are behind Celtic. Of more immediate concern to me is why Rangers never seem to fall foul of UEFA FFP. Is there not a limit on how often a club can dilute existing shares and introduce new ones in order to keep financing itself? Why didn’t the mega rich owners of PSG and Man City just do that, and keep doing it in order to pump as much into the club as they liked? I have read on other forums that Rangers current accumulative losses over a period do meet the criteria for UEFA action. My fear is that in order for UEFA to look into Rangers finances, the SFA would have to raise a concern, which will never ever happen.
==================
Whilst it is the SFA's responsibility to apply UEFA honestly and fairly, what I don't get is why the Boards of other clubs don't vote in Domestic FFP because the business model TRFC follow puts Scottish football at risk in financial and integrity terms. I wonder too that their fans don't seem to press them to act.
It puts their own clubs (bar Celtic) at a greater financial disadvantage than if Domestic FFP operated and undermines the integrity that the licensing rules protect if properly applied and which is cast aside when the consequences of financial recklessness manifest themselves.
Of course the biggest risk takers are "Rangers" themselves but they seem incorrigible and if Neil Cameron is right about the majority of Rangers supporters, why aren't they demanding financial prudence? At what point do they say "Enough, we have seen this horror B movie before"?
Allyjambo 18th March 2020 at 14:58
Interestingly, there’s a lot more words in that piece about people (himself included) other than David Graham, the subject of the piece, than there are about that subject of the piece himself.
……………….
It read more like The job should have been mine, Traynor brought me under his wing and i was promised next in line. You can almost hear him crying it should have been me.
Cluster One 17th March 2020 at 21:48
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wottpi 17th March 2020 at 10:32
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tony 17th March 2020 at 10:10
Yes indeed, saw that elsewhere.
It will be interesting to see if Michael Stewart has anything to say
………………..
If Traynor is away? And i have not read any statement (And they like a good statement down ibrox way)
Was the Michael Stewart highlight, the final nail in Traynors coffin?
…………….
NEIL CAMERON: How Jim Traynor’s replacement David Graham is a PR disaster for Rangers.
…………..
So Traynor could be away, can we claim this as an exclusive for SFM;-)
" Naebody move, there's been a virus"
Taggart 2020.
I think the end of June to finish games is too early. It might apply ok for clubs in countries further east who have already locked down, but as the UK probably has to ride the wave in June it might be end of July, but mid July might be possible.
The league positions would be frozen as they now stand to form a top and bottom 6, perhaps splitting the points on the outstanding game between TRFC and St Johnstone 1 each to allow organising on a post split basis as well as splitting points for the remaining games for all clubs before the split.
If the points difference at the end of season for top place is 2 to Celtic award TRFC 2 points and settle on goal difference. If its one point award TRFC 2 Points and they win on merit as reducing current 10 point gap (ignoring the St J game) would be meritorious, same if the number of points are even.
That is 5 meaningful games spread over 2 weeks, Sat/Sun, Tuesday/Wed, Sat/Sun, Tuesday/Wed, /Sat/Sun.
If general situation not improved enough to allow large crowds to attend limit the numbers to the ground capacity that allows safe distance between fans. Sell the TV rights abroad and PPV globally.
There should be more than one plan to meet alternative circumstances.
Auldheid 18th March 2020 at 22:48
Whilst it is the SFA's responsibility to apply UEFA honestly and fairly
=====================
Surely there is a case that they've not been doing that?
Imagine what would happen if the SFA refused Rangers a licence? (I know , I know!) Statement o'clock would become statement 24/7, the media would be in uproar, and the gates of Hampden would be stormed. Therein lies the problem. Rangers can do what they like, as long as they can get money from somewhere.
It's a wee shame that Jabba had to shoot off without the opportunity to wave cheerio, but I reckon translate-gate done for him. It was either he, or his employers, who were due the firing squad for that, and it looks like he was the one handed the blindfold.
Always a vindictive fat scroat, with the goods on the gossip writers, and a pocket-book full of SMSM connections, I suppose he could have remained a threat to his successor, and employers alike. It was probably a wise move from Sevco to bring in a new bod with stronger "connections, (allegedly).
I wonder if plod are any further down the line investigating his recent sore face. It certainly appears it was sore enough to affect his mouth……Mebbe that's why he couldn't say cheerio………
Just saying that I doubt there will be a book in the offing. Crayons and stookied fingers are not the best of bed fellows.
“NEIL CAMERON: How Jim Traynor’s replacement David Graham is a PR disaster for Rangers…”
=====
That headline alone is very telling.
The reader could infer that this ‘journalist’ believes that Traynor himself was NOT a PR disaster for TRFC…
whilst there is a HUGE body of evidence to the contrary: Lambogate, China bids for Morelos, doing the finger waving at a presser after having hauled Warburton away, etc…
And after Traynor’s incredibly short fall from grace, I suppose that there’s only one place left that will welcome him as their ‘PR expert’: the SFA.
Alex Rae has got some serious competition for talking p!sh;
Name this talking head;
"…He said:
“There is no doubt this (Corona Virus pandemic) is bigger than than the Rangers situation in 2012 because some people felt they brought the problems they encountered on themselves but you can’t say that here because it’s nobody’s fault…"
[Clue: he used to be the SFA CEO!]
I note that the SFA is releasing in advance about £1.5 M to clubs, each club receiving an amount based on its 2019 Licensing level- Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum.
Anyone able to make a rough calculation of the amount that ,say, TRFC might expect to get?
John Clark 19th March 2020 at 11:45
=============
IIRC correctly they had silver level last year?
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/6062/club-licensing-current-update-february-2020.pdf
Aberdeen Silver
Celtic Platinum
Hamilton Academical Silver
Heart of Midlothian Silver
Hibernian Gold
Kilmarnock Silver
Livingston Bronze
Motherwell Silver
Rangers Silver
Ross County Silver
St Johnstone Gold
St Mirren Gold
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
upthehoops 19th March 2020 at 12:11
'…they had silver level last year?'
……………………………..
yes: "It appears that Rangers were awarded a silver though for the annual financial statements section"
The thing is that there are a lot of clubs subject to the National system:
Scottish Professional Football League (Premiership) Clubs
Scottish Professional Football League (Championship, League 1 and League 2) Clubs
Scottish Highland Football League Clubs
Scottish Lowland Football League Clubs
All other Member Clubs
If they've all to get something, £ that1.5 M isn't going to go very far,assuming the grading system doesn't give a disproportionate amount to the platinum and gold level clubs.
EJ/AJ
So, Anne Budge says Hearts will have to take a £1m hit.
£500,000 for the outstanding league games and £500,000 for the semi final.
Surely Hearts wouldn't have budgeted for the £500,000 semi final money!!!
HS
1.5m divided amongst clubs may help very small clubs but to those with the largest running costs it's a drop in the ocean . Even if TRFC were able to get 10% of that (and I doubt they would be entitled to such a large %age) it wouldn't pay Defoes wage for a month. They should face reality (like Hearts) and ask staff to take a pay cut or at least defer some wages to a latter date . Operating costs at Ibrox are 4.7m a month , they have a known shortfall twice that , the question is do they pay March wages, then April and possibly May with zero coming in?If yes then who writes the cheque ? There is a massive queue forming for financial assistance and I'm afraid that the circus that is football is not a high priority .
IIRC, the original Rangers also asked players / staff to defer a percentage of salaries?
Suppose that could keep most folks happy, and help avert an immediate cash flow meltdown?
And if clubs do have the relevant insurance – and they do actually receive a pay out – it would probably still take a while to see some cash?
A percentage of something is better than nothing…
Higgy's Shoes 19th March 2020 at 12:48
EJ/AJ
So, Anne Budge says Hearts will have to take a £1m hit.
£500,000 for the outstanding league games and £500,000 for the semi final.
Surely Hearts wouldn't have budgeted for the £500,000 semi final money!!!
HS
======================================
At December's AGM, it was stated that the club had budgeted for a break even performance over the financial year, but was forecast to have a £400k shortfall because of poorer performance on the pitch leading to lower than anticipated match day, hospitality, advertising and sponsorship income, and costs associated with the changes in the management team.
You are correct to say that the Scottish Cup run was an un-budgeted windfall that now won't be received in this financial year, so can be discounted.
However the forecast £400k shortfall, plus the loss of another £500k in matchday and other income to the scheduled end of season, still leaves at least a £900k gap to be filled. I would have expected Ann Budge to cover the £400k either personally, or through her "benefactor" friends, but the latest £500k hit necessitated further cost cutting measures, as announced yesterday.
Higgy's Shoes 19th March 2020 at 12:48 EJ/AJ So, Anne Budge says Hearts will have to take a £1m hit. £500,000 for the outstanding league games and £500,000 for the semi final. Surely Hearts wouldn't have budgeted for the £500,000 semi final money!!! HS
______________–
I'm only a Hearts supporter with no more insight to Hearts financial situation than anyone else, but unless Ann Budge stated that the hit is from the budgeted figure then I don't see anything in what you've posted to suggest she is referring to anything other than money that was reasonably anticipated a week or so ago but is now lost over the next couple of months due to the shut down. Not only that, she may have drawn up a budget post quarter-final win that did include the additional half-million, and is now having to shelve some off-field plans, or she is concerned that that additional money, that may have helped to fund a possible season (or more) in the Championship, is now lost (or, if my club managed to avoid relegation, funded a rebuilding of the squad during the window).
I'd be very surprised if any business stuck rigidly to a start of the year budget and didn't re-budget as increased/decreased revenue occurred, and I think we can be pretty sure that every club, including Celtic, is, right now, re-budgeting, and re-budgeting again as this disastrous end(?) to the season unfolds.
Once again the site gets a bashing from the man in the know
” Many of same have a chip on their shoulder apropos this site and do their utmost to disparage my narrative. With only one article in every six weeks as a focal point, many of them hang on my every word and then queue up to kiss Phil Macgiollabhain’s arse for the exclusives that he ‘borrowed’ from our site. They can wait until the official release of my exclusive news. These bitter OAP’s deserve to be in the dark. ”
Reminded me of a tune that sums him up, considering what he produces is rehashed news that has been aired by most bloggers before him.
”
Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar,
You’re gonna go far,
You’re gonna fly high,
You’re never gonna die,
You’re gonna make it if you try,
They’re gonna love you.
I’ve always had a deep respect and I mean that most sincere;
The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think,
Oh, by the way, which one’s Pink?
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?
We call it “Riding The Gravy Train”.
We’re just knocked out.
We heard about the sell out.
You’re gonna get an album out,
You owe it to the people.
We’re so happy we can hardly count.
Everybody else is just green,
Have you seen the chart?
It’s a hell of a start,
It could be made into a monster,
If we all pull together as a team.
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?
We call it “Riding The Gravy Train”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMr3KtYUCcI
Next week's court hearing (if anyone is allowed in)
LORD CLARK – L Cranston, Clerk
Tuesday 24th March between 9.30am and 10.00am
Preliminary Hearing
CA12/20 The Rangers Football Club Ltd v LBJ Sports Apparel Ltd – Anderson Strathern LLP – Burness Paull LLP
“It will take a lot of leadership to come through this and within the SFA, knowing the new set-up, we’ve got strong characters and experienced characters. That experience is in a number of different areas, not just football. I’m sure they will lead us through this and it will be difficult, and there is so much speculation."
We're in good hands according to the former SFA president in today's Aberdeen Evening Express!
Gaslamp
I'm sobbing into my pillow, we're f**ked
Bigboab1916@15.55
I had to look. “Bitter little men with too much time on their hands” Nice bit of trolling that.
Interesting factoid. Roy Harper sang lead on Have A Cigar, much to the chagrin of Roger Waters.
That Gordon "I knew nothing about anything" Smith is certainly on a roll today in the SMSM.
Fortunately, Smith was the SFA CEO a long time ago, and the SFA has since progressed and developed into a World Class organisation with a 'Respected and Trusted to Lead' top management team in, erm, Ian Maxwell and Rod Petrie.
Nurse!!!
“Bitter little men with too much time on their hands”
Anyone ever come across the term psychological projection?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
redlichtie 19th March 2020 at 18:56
===========================================
No but I know how to use a possessive apostrophe.
"These bitter OAP’s deserve to be in the dark."
I also have a working knowledge of what TUPE is intended for, who it is there to protect and when it kicks in.
"If there is not, then clubs will have to put themselves in receivership and TUPE over a skeleton squad of eighteen."
This doesn't sound much like Greenock to me, "worst time" or not.
"As I look from my shoe box’s window I can see a 200 unit block of condominiums priced at upwards of £300,000 with no occupants. The Chinese were expected to buy these units. There was a major pitch by CBRE at The Peninsula Hotel in Hong Kong. Not one taker. The adjacent hotel lies empty. Even the mixed-use mall/office/upmarket condo new builds are struggling for tenants. The Marriott Hotel chain have just announced 20,000 redundancies. I cannot think of a worst time to go cap in hand to"
Oh and he does write some amount of nonsense. Then adds comments saying how well written and "forensic" his work is.
StevieBC 19th March 2020 at 13:00
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IIRC, the original Rangers also asked players / staff to defer a percentage of salaries?
Suppose that could keep most folks happy, and help avert an immediate cash flow meltdown?
………………….
But that would be too much of a wake up call for the ibrox fan base who expect SG to get a warchest to stop the ten
A lot of uncertainty surrounds this virus, and the ability of many clubs to weather the storm will be dependent on so many variables, so it may be some time before a clearer picture emerges.
Although Sevco's financial figures are mainly composed of educated guessing and gauging the depth of director's pockets, I couldn't help but chuckle at the thought, that the very real possibility exists that Sevco might be liquidated before Rangers themselves finally make it onto the butchers block.
I'm not even sure what is funny about it……It just is.
.
What about the un bitter ones like me ? Can we still be haters ? Is he still overseas and railing against his ex partner and the mob that threatened to kill his parents ? Or has the narrative moved on ? This lack of football is actually quite pleasant fopr Thistle fans , or at least this one .
bigboab1916 19th March 2020 at 15:55
……………
And a lot of folk believe it was an original member of the band that sang that song on the record. Just like a lot of folk believe it is all JJ original work.
A little knowledge should shine a light.
Just a thought.
Should football open the transfer window and leave it open for now.
For clubs needing money right away they could sell players registrations getting that money in. There will be some clubs who are willing to spend even now.
We would have to accept it would be very much a buyer's market. Though if a club is near to the edge they may not care.
It would cost nothing and would allow the clubs a bit of flexibility.
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, however Raith Rovers have asked for crowdfunding support of £25,000
They have received almost £21,000 in practically no time.
Well played to their support.
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/raithroversfc
Anyone got any reading suggestions?
Nothing too demanding. No need for grammar, syntax, spelling or punctuation.
Must be humble, though.
Bonus if it's not by a writer or author; a correspondent is preferable.
Nothing too expensive.
Price negotiable.
LUGOSI 20th March 2020 at 00:21
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Anyone got any reading suggestions?
—————————————————————————————————-
'Sapiens' by Yuval Noah Harari
I see the new Rangers PR Chief is getting it tight in today’s Daily Record for a previous Facebook post referring to Celtic Park as ‘the piggery’. It makes me wonder if Traynor really is leaving the building of his own accord.
2-3 years back Rangers demanded the removal of a SFA director for a comment made several years ago referring to the Rangers support as ‘the great unwashed’. They made a huge song and dance about it and they got their wish. Was that any worse than what their new PR Chief has been reported as saying? With the type of background the guy has it is inevitable that more negative stuff will emerge. It’s only a guess but I wonder if the only reason the guy is there is to drum up financial support from Northern Ireland.
King was originally charged with threatening witnesses ,Traynor was employed as an enforcer on the media and now they have employed someone who has links to an outlawed terrorist organisation . Now if you read point one again ………..far fetched? over exaggeration? Let's remember this man has no experience for the job he has just been employed to do . It may well be that they see him as a link to DUP funds after all they employed Pedro for his links to Qatari Princes and Warburton for his contacts in the City . If they do secure new funding the first investment should be in long spoons. Dave King is a sociopath in my opinion and a dangerous character , this really is worth a read even if it's just for point 1
https://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
Lugosi@00.21
”Laidlaw” by William McIvanney. Just reread it after a gap of about 40 years. Page 52 contains the immortal line “There’s been a murder” which I’m sure I’ve heard somewhere before.
Yep.
It's just a matter of time before this latest Ibrox 'PR expert';
– has a particular past indiscretion dug up, from which there is no return, and it simply has to be 'Game Over'
and/or
– his inexperience drops TRFC – deep – into the smelly stuff, and he has to take responsibility, and do walking away.
It's a no-brainer.
It 'could' be that he's potentially bringing a positive and negative to Ibrox.
Positive: perhaps access to 'other' funds?
Negative: a 'perceived' big stick to keep the SMSM in check, and especially in the absence of any local media contacts or relevant experience.
The race to the gutter at Ibrox has just accelerated, IMO.
Never mind 'interims'!
Companies House is allowing a two month extension to the company accounts deadline,and then another month after that if companies can demonstrate extreme circumstances [due to the coronavirus]
(The Scotsman print edition today, p.36)
JC, good spot.
I wonder if companies – of all sizes / industries – will consider changing their year end date – to extend their current financial year by X months, and past the peak of the crisis, (hopefully).
For example, if your year end is June 30th, like most (?) football clubs, then even just logistically the external auditors are unlikely to be able to conduct a full audit remotely, typically.
And also in the 'Scotsman' today we have Halliday's report on Doncaster's 'Price of Football' podcast recorded shortly before the 'pandemic' broke out.
" So [says Doncaster]cross-border leagues are, I think, coming down the track.Ultimately,any party you need an invitation to.It may be some sort of economic or political shock,or technology shock,which unsettles the environment and makes cross-border leagues more likely.But I do think that at some point in the future we will see cross-border leagues and who knows where that might take us."
We are truly in the realm of Cash is King.
Not the time to be a loss-making enterprise without access to credit facilities from a bank.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
The virus is sweeping through all pro sport
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51968800
If you think Scottish football is bonkers go check out the financial wastelands of English pro rugby. From memory only one club broke even. All the others needed benefactor support.
On this appointment of a rookie PR man, whose only previous experience in football is as a bigoted 'Rangers' supporter, could one possibly ask for greater evidence that any semblance of integrity, if it ever existed, has now escaped the Blue Room at Ibrox? They're not even trying to pretend anymore.
Desperation doesn't even begin to describe this appointment, but we can be assured that whatever criticism comes their way from the SMSM, it will be watered down with much that could be published of a more serious nature going unreported.
I can only assume that things are so bad in the Blue Room that no one is able to make rational decisions or even ask if, whatever the proposal made, is a good idea! It's as though they are so overwhelmed with their financial problems that they've gone blind to such an obvious hypocrisy of a company running an anti-bigotry/racism campaign appointing someone – anyone, everyone – to any position in their club/company with such blatant bigotry as his trademark.
Homunculus
Great idea about transfer window which I Tweeted about earlier (with full credit of course). David Low has already Tweeted in support of the idea – based on his overarching message of "Survival" in the recent podcast.
If anyone has missed it, it really is worth a listen
http://podcast.sfm.scot/
I hope this link works, it's a tweet from Clevid Dikamona about his own reaction to the request from Hearts for players, and staff, to accept a 50% drop in wages during the crisis. He's probably not a household name amongst anyone other than Hearts supporters, but what a great attitude from someone who has, until recently, not been able to command a regular place in the team. It would be nice to think that most footballers and sportspeople, the world over, will show a similar attitude, and grasp of reality, as this young man has.
I've also read on Jambos Kickback that both Daniel Stendel, Hearts manager, and Stephen Naismith (unconfirmed) have approached Ann Budge and offered to go without wages so others can have a decent wage.
Lump in the throat time for me.
https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/uploads/monthly_2020_03/Screenshot_20200320-112641.png.ee409639d5bcc174b7c538652ce4f117.png
Link to article re Stendel
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/daniel-stendel-tells-hearts-use-his-wages-pay-other-staff-german-free-leave-if-club-relegated-2502930
When Cash is King but King has no Cash the Monarchy is in danger
The incoming PR appointee has already instructed Ibrox to update their diversity campaign slogan;
"Everyone but Anyone who's not one of us."
At least he's honest.
A perfect storm….
SPFL sponsor finishes at end of 19/20 as does Scottish Cup. Can’t see when Betfred ends in league cup.
what’s the likelihood of getting new sponsors in on improved terms given current circumstances?
Big Pink 20th March 2020 at 12:25
It's a bit of a no-brainer for me.
How does a company get cash.
Normal sales
Disposal of assets
Share issues
Loans
If three of those are impossible, or extremely difficult, and the other one is currently banned. Lift the ban, at least until things get back to approaching normality.
Allowing clubs the chance to survive surely outweighs the reasons for the transfer windows in the first place. Particularly as no-one is going to be playing football for the foreseeable future anyway.
Its a simple way for the game to support it's own clubs.
‘Allyjambo 20th March 2020 at 12:22
On this appointment of a rookie PR man, whose only previous experience in football is as a bigoted ‘Rangers’ supporter, could one possibly ask for greater evidence that any semblance of integrity, if it ever existed, has now escaped the Blue Room at Ibrox? They’re not even trying to pretend anymore…’
#########################
I can’t have been alone in wondering why a former TRFC director (and DCK ally), known for being a true-blue RRM & liking a ‘certain’ type of sing-song was being paraded in the SMSM last week…
…then David Graham is appointed & it all becomes clear. They’ve been caught ‘red-handed’: going forward, Ibrox is going to be (even-more) ‘Ulsterised’!
(I wonder if anyone with a BT postcode joining Club1872 will receive a discount of £1.82 on the regular subscription?)
I see Alex Salmonds lawyer has introduced a new version of legal process. In Eck's defence he has proclaimed "I cant prove something's going on here but I'm sure I can smell it"
Oh if only that worked! (in legal terms at least)
Dom 16
…and I also think the transfer market will absolutely plummet.
https://za.investing.com/equities/micromega-holdings-ltd-chart
Exactly 1 month ago today the price was R250 today it is R125. King has lost 50% of his wealth in just 4 weeks and the price had been falling since 2015 when it was a heady R1550. Since he ascended the marble staircase he is down 90% , his Gerrard gamble has slipped at the final furlong and he is staring at an impecunious future. His shares in RIFC are worthless and unsellable and his £5m loan has no chance of being repaid. If he attempted to call it in it tips RIFC over the edge as they have no funds to settle and very few assets to sell . Any assets they do have are hawked to Close Leasing. I do wonder if he has a claim on the stadium that John "Whurz ra Deeds" Brown played at .I think JC questioned whether the Japan based investor who was involved in commercial property was more than a coincidence.
I agree that opening the transfer market may help but most clubs are in the same position in that there will be many wanting to sell to cut costs but only a handful that will be cash rich enough to buy. They know that there is more chance of players being freed and available for nothing in the weeks and months ahead and are more likely to wait. The velocity of currency has hit a brick wall , nobody is spending , people and business' are nervous of the future and hoarding cash rather than spending it will be the order of the day.
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 17:03
https://za.investing.com/equities/micromega-holdings-ltd-chart
=================================
Thanks for keeping track on this. The fall in the share price in "Sebata Holdings" (formerly Micromega) has devastated King's "wealth" retained within South Africa. The value of his stake at today's exchange rate (20.39 ZAR to the £1) is now only £4.46m.
I suspect that if he has provided a £5m loan facility to RIFC, then he will be wanting (perhaps needing) to call in the loan soon, if he hasn't asked for it already.
@EJ , I read that the loan is not due to be repaid til 2021 so it may be the case that he can't even ask for it yet. I cannot see them continuing beyond the end of this month (unless everyone takes a 100% pay cut) . King is a busted flush , it's all over bar the shouting .
If TRFC run out of money then how can an administration be paid for? Will it not simply pass into receivership with Close Bros holding valid security over certain assets. It must be a choice this month of pay salaries or enter admin unless further donations can be squeezed out of interested parties.
gunnerb 20th March 2020 at 18:51
If TRFC run out of money then how can an administration be paid for? Will it not simply pass into receivership with Close Bros holding valid security over certain assets. It must be a choice this month of pay salaries or enter admin unless further donations can be squeezed out of interested parties.
=======================================
It is within the power of the SFA and SPFL to set aside their insolvency rules and player registration restrictions (transfer window) for at least a temporary period.
For some clubs it may be prudent to go down the insolvency route in order to be able to stop trading and release high earners until such time as normal trading can be resumed.
There would also be risks with that approach as any insolvency practitioner appointed could, in theory, sell all the assets for a fraction of their value, rather than keep the company in a dormant status for a period. There could be issues about how a club could emerge from administration after the crisis. Could it restart its operations without going through a CVA? Could it re-engage players on different contracts? I don’t know
Billionaire Buddies from Japan and Hong Kong Phooey fantasies aside…
to get through the Corona crisis – and beyond – the necessary funds will have to be self-generated at Ibrox.
The Directors and/or the fans will simply have to stump up the cash.
It's been suggested that the Directors are all tapped out – which could very well be the case, and understandably so.
Which leaves the bears…
Will we see the launch of a major, emotional blackmail campaign to demand that the fans save TRFC and help with 'going for 55'.
Such a fund raiser would be much more effective if it was co-ordinated with a circling-of-the-wagons and loud pointing of fingers at all the 'Rangers haters' for inflicting perceived, (dreamt up), injustices or some such BS.
I think we've seen this Ibrox movie before… and a few sequels too!
How much money does Club 1872 have just now.
I'm sure just giving that to the club could be branded "a project".
Homunculus 20th March 2020 at 20:38
How much money does Club 1872 have just now.
I'm sure just giving that to the club could be branded "a project".
——————————————————————————
I would be very interested to see a formal justification for such a project or 'investment' as these folks all seem to call it.
A risk assessment would probably be too hot to touch!
They would be better advised to hoard their funds for the creation of Sevco #2.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
I think club 1872 had their pockets picked not so long ago and the amount they have built up since then will not make a great deal of difference (rough liberal est 500k) . The problem with raising capital from Directors and fans is the Directors are "tapped out" , they know it's a bottomless pit and they have their own business concerns at the moment , fans likewise. The season is effectively over with zero income on the horizon for at least 4 months , any ST money they can bring in for next season is held in escrow and released on game by game basis. They owe £9.6m in transfer fees due in June plus the Close loan , there is a further 12m in transfer fees to be paid at a later date and of course Kings 5m then there's all the court cases. There comes a time when you must realise that you cannot square the circle , that there is no point spending 4m in March just to get to April then another 4m just to get to May then another 4m to get to June when you have to pay 10m . If they do manage to wiggle out of this then it will be an act Houdini would be proud of
Homunculus 20th March 2020 at 20:38
How much money does Club 1872 have just now.
I'm sure just giving that to the club could be branded "a project".
================================
Their last "investment" was £500k in November 2019. Prior to that it was £1m in September 2018.
If they only took in £500k between those two dates then they won't have much more than enough for a couple of good nights in Glasgow (sic. Chick Young – and that's with pubs and clubs shut).
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 21:12
"…… any ST money they can bring in for next season is held in escrow and released on game by game basis."
——————————————————————————————–
That's an interesting thought. Have the season ticket holders any right of refund if fixtures are not played?
Are Rangers* better off having a quick ending of the season so that they can access this cash rather than waiting to whenever the games actually get played?
How much is actually effectively sitting in escrow?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
easyJambo 20th March 2020 at 21:13
================================
LOL indeed.
I believe a decent night out runs to about £95,000 or thereabouts.
Well it did back in the day.
I imagine fans would be entitled to a refund for any games not played or any games played behind closed doors, normally fans may waive their right to a refund when things are tight for their club but things are going to be equally difficult for them as well. As for the amount I could only hazard a guess at approx 1m per home game that's left (that's £30 minus vat x 45k ) knowing the way admin works it will end up in the administrators pocket rather than any creditor.
IIRC, £95K was "not just for any good night out in Glasgow"…
but for "a Campbell Ogilvie good night out in Glasgow".
Does anyone know what that dodgy, slippery character is up to these days?
(Hopefully retired and nowhere near football in any capacity?)
Smugas 20th March 2020 at 15:57
I see Alex Salmonds lawyer has introduced a new version of legal process. In Eck’s defence he has proclaimed “I cant prove something’s going on here but I’m sure I can smell it”
Oh if only that worked! (in legal terms at least)
Something stinks. Reading the MSM against Doleman and Craig Murray (banned from the court on a “possible contempt”) its like a different world and that reporting is meant to be restricted.
The front page of todays DR is contempt. In my view.
John Clark 20th March 2020 at 10:34
And also in the 'Scotsman' today we have Halliday's report on Doncaster's 'Price of Football' podcast recorded shortly before the 'pandemic' broke out.
" So [says Doncaster]cross-border leagues are, I think, coming down the track.Ultimately,any party you need an invitation to.It may be some sort of economic or political shock,or technology shock,which unsettles the environment and makes cross-border leagues more likely.But I do think that at some point in the future we will see cross-border leagues and who knows where that might take us."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So if i've got this right the SPFL (no doubt in close collusion with the SFA) let loose the Covid-19 just to get cross border football for the Old Firm. I'm paranoid enough to believe that.
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 21:12
I think club 1872 had their pockets picked not so long ago and the amount they have built up since then will not make a great deal of difference (rough liberal est 500k) . The problem with raising capital from Directors and fans is the Directors are "tapped out" , they know it's a bottomless pit and they have their own business concerns at the moment , fans likewise. The season is effectively over with zero income on the horizon for at least 4 months , any ST money they can bring in for next season is held in escrow and released on game by game basis. They owe £9.6m in transfer fees due in June plus the Close loan , there is a further 12m in transfer fees to be paid at a later date and of course Kings 5m then there's all the court cases. There comes a time when you must realise that you cannot square the circle , that there is no point spending 4m in March just to get to April then another 4m just to get to May then another 4m to get to June when you have to pay 10m . If they do manage to wiggle out of this then it will be an act Houdini would be proud of
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It's not a matter of squaring the cirlcle for some of the Directors when trading when insolvent.
There are some Directors with other interests to protect and the consequences of being found guilty of that are not worth thinking about.
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 21:12
They owe £9.6m in transfer fees due in June plus the Close loan , there is a further 12m in transfer fees to be paid at a later date and of course Kings 5m then there’s all the court cases.
………………
Off the top of my head i can’t remember when the Close Brothers loan is due to be paid back. Any information?
@C1 I thought it was the end of this month but not 100% sure
redlichtie 20th March 2020 at 21:00
'…I would be very interested to see a formal justification for such a project or 'investment' as these folks all seem to call it.'
…………
My own feeling is that there is a very loose interpretation of what the word 'community' means as used in Section 35(5) of The Company's(Audit) Investigation and Community Enterprise )Act 2004!
Can the supporters and shareholders of a football club really be considered a community in the way that , say, the population Castlemilk or Aviemore or Leith or Dumfries is a civic 'community', with common interests?
I myself do not think so.
Anyway, this is from the Articles of Association of Club 1872 Shares Community Interest Company, company number 476150
“Article 5.1 The objects of the Company are to carry on activities which benefit the community and in particular (without limitation) to acquire a shareholding in the controlling entity of The Rangers Football Club('the Club') and to utilise this shareholding to repair,improve and enhance the engagement between the owners and the followers and supporters of the club and otherwise to support and enhance the aspirations of Rangers supporters and followers for the well-being of the club and its footballing success. …
…..
6.1. The Company may do all such lawful things as may further the Company's objects and, in particular, but without limitation, may borrow or raise and secure the payment of money for any purpose including for the purposes of investment or of raising funds . [ note: but isn't allowed to grant security over its assets unless this approved by Special Resolution] "
I think that supports my view that to describe the supporters of a football club as constituting a 'community' ( for tax relief purposes and such) is stretching things a bit, in the circumstances where any particular football club (or clubs!) appear to foster ill-will and the very opposite of civic 'community' and civic unity.
ClusterOne@22.17
“Off the top of my head i can’t remember when the Close Brothers loan is due to be paid back.”
Too soon.
Homunculus 20th March 2020 at 21:37
'..I believe a decent night out runs to about £95,000 or thereabouts.
Well it did back in the day.'
………………………….
That made me smile when I saw it earlier.
I would nearly say 'poor Chick!' except that he contributed to the minimising of the possible involvement of CO in the whole dirty saga of untruth and cheating.
He allowed his partisanship to direct his 'journalism'.
As so many of the SMSM have done-to their eternal discredit!
All very depressing stuff at the moment , no footie no pubs no jigging no pasta no eggs and no toilet roll !! Club allegiancies aside for a moment and the scary scenario football wise is , what is the football landscape gonna look like once we get through the other side of this ?
Clubs are gonna go bust , not just here in Scotland but everywhere . What ever is left of Scottish football once we get by this , it should be a time for ALL the clubs to come together and choose to put in place proffesional people with a genuine love of our game . Clubs need to realise that for the good of the game the SFA must be cleansed once and for all. I would even take the SFA out of Glasgow . Aberdeen , Dundee or Perth for me . Sort the feking rule book out once and for all and the people in charge earn their corn by deciding any controversial issues of the day themselves instead of involving lawyers and the crazy finanacial fees that go with it . FFP should be the first thing that should be brought in . That we dont already have it ( and we all know why ) is reason enough to kick the corrupt imcompetents out of office . Rangers in whatever form must be stood up to by every club if Scottish football is ever to thrive . When you think over the years the amount of time and effort the SFA must have taken up ducking and diving to appease Rangers it is absoloutely crazy. We need an SFA fit for purpose who will treat every club equally and not be afraid to make decisions . I would go further and say that a decent percentage of any Champs league money should be distributed to the clubs in the league but ONLY if the above was in place . I know some fellow Celtic fans may not agree with that but we need a proper competitive league . Oh and all teams in the top division must have a grass park ! I know Im way ahead of myself but woke up a bit depressed with all things football just now and trying to stay positive . Whilst things are black at the moment , if we get through this it could be a genuine opportunity to fix a broken system here in Scotland . Anyhoo Im gonna get up and have breakfast…………anyone got any spare eggs ?
My question of the other day is partly answered! Iain McMenemy, chairman of Stenhousemuir tells us that his club's share of the £1.5 million is £,8000!
Come to think of it, re: completing the current season's fixtures, or not…
Whilst the social distancing continues, all players will be losing their match fitness – regardless of how much training they can do themselves.
It looks like there could be many more weeks, (months ?), to go before public events are allowed again.
If fixtures are initiated ASAP, there could be a higher risk that players could sustain injuries due to their – relatively -impaired physical state.
I.e. the longer the break, the greater the need for a 'pre-season' training period?
Ergo, it could be another reason not to complete this season's league games – with possibly a question mark over the remaining SC games rolling over to the beginning of next season… whenever that will be.
One thing that really annoys me in all this is the fact that UEFA are dictating that June the 30th is the cut off date to finish all our current domestic leagues . Why ? So that the big fat gravy train can roll again and make more money thats why. Imo UEFA should do one , domestic leagues are more important at the moment than their crazy money pot competition . The Champs League, Europa cup etc should be scrapped until normality is up and running in all domestic competitions . As StevieBC says above players need to get back up to speed . It looks at the moment as we aint gonna see football anytime soon , players will be out of contract, many clubs might not be here any more etc but all they give a shit about is their competition. Without the domestic leagues properly up and running again how can you have a proper Champs league or Europa cup competition. Its all self interest on their part , the football world might never be the same again , its time they realised that and start thinking about what role they should be playing in helping domestic football back on its feet
Here’s my tuppence worth.
I think it’s safe to say that this season is done and everybody involved in the game should plan to start again in August.
What is currently missing is leadership from someone with authority in the game to say it out loud. Motherwell fans have already responded and if season tickets for next season are sold then that will help to partially offset the current cash crisis.
In other news I heard anecdotally that subscribers were deserting SkySports and this is now being accelerated by pubs being shut.
Stay safe.
I read this elsewhere, so hope it's correct:
Sky is offering the facility to temporarily suspend sports packages.
If you go to the 'My Sky' app, there's (apparently) a button which allows you to 'pause' Sky Sports (and the charges incurred) during the current public health emergency. You'll be automatically reconnected when sport recommences. I'm told that the channels may still be watched when you do this.
BT Sport appears to be allowing immediate cancellation: that is, you do not need to give one month's notice.
Jingso.Jimsie 21st March 2020 at 14:39
Have just been onto Sky and used the pause facility, pretty easy though you may have to wait to be connected due to volume of users also pausing. In saying that I've had nothing yet to confirm that my Sky Sports package has been paused.
Pretty good thinking on their part as it'll keep hold of customers who might otherwise cancel altogether and not re-subscribe later or immediately the crisis is over.
Allyjambo 21st March 2020 at 15:16
Jingso.Jimsie 21st March 2020 at 14:39
Have just been onto Sky and used the pause facility, pretty easy though you may have to wait to be connected due to volume of users also pausing. In saying that I've had nothing yet to confirm that my Sky Sports package has been paused.
Pretty good thinking on their part as it'll keep hold of customers who might otherwise cancel altogether and not re-subscribe later or immediately the crisis is over.
====================================
I have a prepaid subscription to NowTV for their Sky Sports "season ticket" package which has the best part of three months to run.
At the moment they are not offering a "pause" facility while there is little in the way of live sports. Their best offer is a "one month" Sky Sports pass which can be started at some point in the next year. No refunds are on offer.
Apart from being a crap offer, NowTV is part of Sky, so it's treating customers differently based on which service(s) they use. I will keep at them though in the hope that they will eventually see sense. I know from forums that that I'm certainly not the only one who has made a similar complaint.
The Highland League has made a decision to end the season and declare Brora champions.
http://www.highlandfootballleague.com/News/Item/1976_Scottish_Highland_Football_League_-_Update.aspx
The notable points from that decision are that Brora, despite a healthy lead, could still be caught by three teams and that there is no relegation from the HL to consider.
Easyjambo@17.25
Scottish Football needs a strong Brora.
Re sports channel subscriptions. Cancelled my BT Sports (£10/mth) today. No problems and no questions asked. Would be interesting to know how much it is costing Sky worldwide?
Jeezo just read Chris Boyds attack on Hearts …that guy is just an idiot with no self awareness. Think that might come back to bite you sunshine . If you take the Corona virus out the equation Im sure Hearts would'nt be going down that road………….Over at Ibrox when the enevitable happens you cant bet your boots that that Boydy will disappear or he will be shouting from the rooftops " The Rangerz were in good financial health it was the Corona Virus wot did it ".
easyJambo 21st March 2020 at 17:25
The Highland League has made a decision to end the season and declare Brora champions.
========================
Going over old ground but this surely has to be one option the SPFL will have to consider. Not the only option, but it surely can’t be dismissed either. There still seems to be a quiet campaign to seize the moment and go for null and void and nothing else. Graham Spiers was at it again in his Times column this morning, amidst a prediction that Celtic fans will claim a conspiracy. Does he have inside knowledge or is he simply pushing for what many of his fellow Rangers fans are pushing for? As a Celtic fan I am demanding nothing other than all options be considered in a fair and reasonable way, and that a democratic decision is made. This is a worldwide crisis, and people who are trying to use it in an attempt to influence their own desired outcome for Scottish football are pretty pathetic in my view.
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 21:52
normally fans may waive their right to a refund when things are tight for their club but things are going to be equally difficult for them as well.
……………..
Bogs Dollox 20th March 2020 at 22:09
……
Timtim 20th March 2020 at 21:12
….
I think club 1872 had their pockets picked not so long ago and the amount they have built up since then will not make a great deal of difference (rough liberal est 500k)
………………….
In these pressing times club 1872 donations could be the first to take a hit from any ibrox fan.
Any share issue, club 72 have been at the forefront to dilute their shares (madness i know)
This share issue if it ever happens, i don’t believe 72 will make much of a dent in anything.
There were times the ibrox boards could rely on a cash pot from 72, that well may be just about to dry up.
I think club 1872 had their pockets picked not so long ago and the amount they have built up since then will not make a great deal of difference (rough liberal est 500k)
Just waiting for (S*)DM venturing that any decision on league placings must meet his famed "smell test".
It's actually true though – if whatever decision made does not stack up against the reasonable expectations Scottish Football fans have of a fair resolution then there may not be many fans returning after the enforced break.
Scottish Football needs to take guidance from the Highland League.
Redlichtie
And also from the Euro Club Index Football Ranking (using the relative strengths of teams and 100,000 simulations) which has provided a scientific prediction of 98.87% that CFC would win the SPFL?
Liverpool (who are not mathematically assured of winning the English Premiership) are rated at 100%
Over to you Operation Null and Void for discussion.
Scottish Football needs a strong St Anthony's.
I missed the wee spat atween Michael Stewart and Fraser Wishart on 'Sportsound' today: it must have come on while we had the radio off during a Skype from Pennsylvania.
I've just read a wee bit about it in the 'Sunday Mail online' but it's not clear to me what Stewart was trying to establish , that caused Wishart to be annoyed at being asked the same question three times about membership of the PFA.
Anybody?
Tne current season losers and winners should not be declared until all scheduled games are complete and if that means a shortened season 20/21, then so be it.
Life in WUHAN looks like it is starting to normalize. Here in Scotland we are on the edge of the storm but we are starting to feel it's force however it should be over by Christmas.
In the name of integrity with so many points to play for it makes sense to me.
Martin C
Taken in isolation I would agree. Trouble is that complications linked to external factors like UEFA competitions, players’ contracts, not to mention the virus itself are also significant.
Shortening next season would diminish the competition as much as shortening this season too, although the latter is laden with less complications for the external factors.
If June can’t be achieved, I don’t see that it is possible to avoid the award/void decision beyond the end of that month.
Reality is that everyone knows June is not achievable, and all the talk about difficult decisions is just that. Talk. Celtic will be awarded the title, there will be no relegation, and a reorganised 14 team top division will emerge.
One idea being talked about, supported by SKY, is for top league to play home and away, then split 7-7, with 6 home and 6 away matches.
Exactly the same number of games as currently.
John Clark 21st March 2020 at 11:37
My question of the other day is partly answered! Iain McMenemy, chairman of Stenhousemuir tells us that his club's share of the £1.5 million is £,8000!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Come on JC. Two Glasgow " Clubs" ruined Scottish football a long time ago.
John Clark 21st March 2020 at 22:08
ooooo
M.Stewart was trying to establish whether Wishart was distinguishing between members and non-members of his Union, or talking to / offering advice to everyone. He suggested that offering advice to Union members only would encourage non-members to join. This is a basic point of Union practice – if Unions offered advice to non-members, no-one would join and pay their subs. Wishart not only seemed to miss the point, which is extraordinary in itself, but repeatedly laughed and mocked Stewart, who rightly said he found that offensive. PFA members would have every right to be concerned about the leadership of their Union and the service being offered them.
Bogs Dollox 22nd March 2020 at 01:00
Come on JC. Two Glasgow " Clubs" ruined Scottish football a long time ago.
====================================
Which two and how did they ruin Scottish football.
Homunculus 22nd March 2020 at 11:17
Bogs Dollox 22nd March 2020 at 01:00
Come on JC. Two Glasgow " Clubs" ruined Scottish football a long time ago.
====================================
Which two and how did they ruin Scottish football.
—————————————————————–
Sir, sir I know this one!
One was R* and the other C.
R* spent money they didn't have and cheated the tax man (and Her Majesty, it is HMRC) to ignite a football arms race where every other club was financially disadvantaged.
The other (C) turned a blind eye to ensuring justice was done when it all went to pot and actually assisted a new R* get into the Scottish football leagues – clearly for selfish commercial reasons.
Do I get high marks for this?
Looking at where we may be heading I see that in the USA Boeing, after scandalous behaviour that has led to many deaths (ref 737 MAX) are now seeking a government bailout due, of course, to COVID-19.
Let's not shame Scottish Football further by allowing R* to escape the just desserts of their financial recklessness since they were formed in 2012.
Scottish Football needs C to step up to the plate this time.
Alex Rae (leading light in the Null and Void ‘campaign’) said:-
“On reflection, bearing in mind Peter Lawell’s wish for a fair settlement, coupled with the fact that there is a 98.87% chance of Celtic winning the SPFL anyway, I think they should be declared Champions ”
Then I woke up!
There are a number of options available to the SPFL with regard to ending the league. Within each option I've suggested, there will still be variations of how things like promotions, relegations and prize money could be handled.
1. Wait – Complete the season when it is safe to resume. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions should they start a new competition before the "season" is ended. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
2. Null and void – Current positions or last season's positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions should they start a new competition in season 2020/21. No promotions or relegations. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
3. End the season now – Award titles. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions when they resume. Automatic promotions/relegations take place but with no play offs. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
4. Reconstruction 14 x 14 x 14 – End the season now, Award titles. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions when they resume. No clubs disadvantaged in terms of promotion, other than those in the HL/LL. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
5. Reconstruction 14 x 10 x 10 x 10 – End the season now, Award titles. Current positions would dictate entry to UEFA competitions when they resume. No relegation. Top two in each league promoted, plus HL and LL winners. Scale back season 2020/21 depending on when the season can start (if at all).
There are advantages and disadvantages with each option before self interest comes into it.
My own preference would be to end the season now, but to take the opportunity go further on the reconstruction path, so that we end up with two leagues of 16, filled predominately with full time clubs. They would play a reduced programme of 30 games a season, (it would be possible to add mini splits if the no of games was an issue, e.g. 4 groups of 4 playing home and away). Below those two leagues the pyramid would be regionalised with all the clubs being part time.
Here's a graph from Kieran Maguire (Price of Football) showing the the cash burn rate of the advance payments and grants given to EFL Championship clubs. It's a similar sort of thing to that produced by Barcabhoy last week.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 11:55
==============================
If that's what he meant, and it would have been easier to just say it, I have one question.
Why would any one club be more culpable than any other club in turning a blind eye to what was going on.
The only club which stood out in the sequence of events was Kilmarnock, when they abstained when the vote was taken on whether or not to let a new club into the top league (as was).
Re the lower league (as was) they democratically voted to let the new club into their league, in the bottom division.
So I am still at a loss to understand which two Glasgow clubs ruined Scottish football and how they ruined it. If it is ruined everyone was involved.
easyJambo 22nd March 2020 at 12:47
There are a number of options available to the SPFL with regard to ending the league…
========
It was roddybhoy who posted an interesting point yesterday, that in effect UEFA should not be dictating to the domestic leagues.
Whilst UEFA can probably dictate, as per the rules that the leagues have signed up to, roddybhoy's post highlights the perceived disparities in objectives / influence between European 'superclubs' and the other 99% of clubs across Europe.
IMO, any Scottish decision should simply ignore UEFA in the first instance: sort out domestic requirements first and foremost. Only after that has been sorted, then look at UEFA requirements.
Let's face it, there are only 2 Scottish clubs – out of the 42 senior clubs – who benefit significantly from UEFA participation.
The immediate focus should be on the greater good for the whole Scottish senior set up: all the way from CFC down to Brechin.
That's it, IMO.
Worst case: what would happen if no Scottish clubs were involved in the CL or EL at all next season?
UEFA demands should be kicked into the long grass for now.
…but that would probably require strong leadership from the SFA…
All SPFL clubs received a considerable cash windfall (£250,000 each) when Celtic qualifier for CL…..No?
Homunculus 22nd March 2020 at 12:58
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 11:55
==============================
If that's what he meant, and it would have been easier to just say it, I have one question.
Why would any one club be more culpable than any other club in turning a blind eye to what was going on…..If it is ruined everyone was involved.
=============================================
I would not disagree with you in the main thrust of your argument Homunculus. My view though is that the two clubs identified have a greater responsibility – one (R*) through their behaviour in ways noted earlier and C as the other major Scottish club who because of that position of strength should have ensured matters were handled correctly by the authorities. Other clubs were on far weaker ground financially and in terms of size of support/clout with the authorities. C as far as I can see did not do the right thing for the greater good of Scottish Football and we are still paying the price.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Bawsman 22nd March 2020 at 13:37
All SPFL clubs received a considerable cash windfall (£250,000 each) when Celtic qualifier for CL…..No?
===============================
Clubs receive solidarity payments from UEFA in any event. However the amount increases (doubles?) if a club from an association reaches the group stages of the CL.
Let's say the increase was £250k per club. I'm sure that all the Premiership clubs would welcome that boost to their coffers, but it's nowhere near the welcome that Celtic would give to receiving £25m extra income from CL group participation.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 14:00
==============================
The same argument has been used all along and I still don't think it is valid.
Every club had 1 share in the SPL (as was). Every club had an equal say on what happened.
Celtic had no more say, or power than anyone else, and it would have been arrogant to have behaved otherwise.
As an aside I see the Highland league have declared game over with the runaway leaders Brora Rangers announced Champions. The Lowland league has yet to make a similar decision. EJ might know more.
I respect your view Homunculus but to take an example of what grates with me about C is what I for one perceive as their duplicitous behaviour over Resolution 12. This seems to support my view that C are not motivated to pursue justice even when given cause/evidence to so do.
With that delay and inaction they effectively and in general endorsed the decisions and accommodations made by the football authorities. I may be wrong but from what I can see this seems to have been on the basis of C's own commercial interest.
They may be Champions but they are not Champions of Scottish Football Integrity.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 15:27
So tell me, what actions have the other top division clubs taken.
Who would you say are the "Champions of Scottish Football Integrity".
What makes Celtic worse than every other club.
They must be if they are in your opinion one of the two Glasgow clubs who ruined Scottish football.
I think it right that UEFA should make a recommendation for all European leagues. Can you imagine the uproar if Scotland declared the season nul and void while England gave out trophies on current table, or vice versa?
Homunculus 22nd March 2020 at 16:17
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 15:27
So tell me, what actions have the other top division clubs taken.
Who would you say are the "Champions of Scottish Football Integrity".
What makes Celtic worse than every other club.
They must be if they are in your opinion one of the two Glasgow clubs who ruined Scottish football.
============================================================
Again, Homunculus, I don't think we are really far apart in our views. I struggle to name any one person or club that has shown real integrity apart from the late Turnbull Hutton. He was the lone Champion to my mind.
What makes C worse is that they were a direct party to what was concocted and let self-interest rule.
Further they were given evidence and a route to at least make some amends by the Resolution 12 team and as far as I can see elected to sit on their hands.
Taken together C's behaviour saddens me immensely.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Smugas 22nd March 2020 at 15:21
As an aside I see the Highland league have declared game over with the runaway leaders Brora Rangers announced Champions. The Lowland league has yet to make a similar decision. EJ might know more.
==================================
It was mentioned on Sportsound yesterday that the LL don't intend to make a decision for two weeks. They have cancelled their League Cup though. They are not currently minded to follow the HL at this time.
The EoS apparently met on Friday, but only decided to cancel all their cups. I suspect that whatever they do will be in conjunction with LL to ensure that their intentions with regard to promotion / relegation can be put into effect.
There is also a meeting of a sub group of the SFA's Pyramid Working Group tomorrow (by video conference I assume) in relation to the startup of a WoSFL next season. It will probably confirm the level of involvement, if any, of the West Region Junior FA in the new setup. Four West Junior clubs, Clydebank, Kilwinning, Rutherglen Glencairn and Bellshill have already publicly announced that they have applied to join a LL run WoSFL next season, although I've seen suggestions that as many 20 clubs may already have done so.
The current deadline for applications is 31 March. I would expect that to be extended by up to a month to allow other clubs to consider their positions in light of the initial applicants, e.g. if Auchinleck and the other bigger clubs have applied, or if their local neighbour has applied. Some clubs will probably have to consult with their members, depending on their constitutions, but the current restrictions on gatherings may make it a difficult process for some, if they have to rely on electronic means of communication.
https://twitter.com/jensweinreich/status/1241793945178439680?s=21
More important than life or death?
I am repeatedly reading, on a variety of social media sites, that TRFC will somehow achieve a pre-pack administration and will emerge debt free and in a better financial state than they are now.
Not unless they manage to pay off Close Brothers first. A rather large sum is involved I believe.
According to Companies House there are three* charges registered against TRFC, two from 2019 and one from 2018, all from Close Leasing. Furthermore two are floating charges.
Now I’m no expert on these matters but from my reading they are the very definition of the word onerous. If any financial insolvency event occurs at TRFC then Close Leasing will appoint the administrator/receiver, TRFC will pick up all of the Close Leasing costs, oh and by the way Close Leasing have power of attorney over TRFC.
This does not read to me that TRFC will somehow achieve a pre-pack “and with one bound they will be free”. Close Leasing will get its pound of flesh no matter the consequences to TRFC or Scottish football.
* There are actually five charges outstanding but two are historic from Sports Scotland and are over the training ground at Auchenhowie, or whatever it is called now. These are positively tame in comparison to those from Close Brothers.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 19:18
I wonder what the position would be with an ongoing damages claim currently lost but awaiting a decision on the extent of the damages!
As the company/club would still remain the same company/club after a pre-pack administration, or one in which a CVA has been achieved, would the damages basically disappear or would the company/club still have that, and other cases, to face?
I've been unable to find out if an ongoing case, such as the one involving SDI/MA, would simply disappear or if would it carry on and leave the company/club to face the consequences! Anyone got any ideas to the likely outcome of this should RIFC/TRFC succeed with a pre-pack administration?
I tend to think that with SDI's lawyers being rather clever chaps that they'd have this possibility covered to ensure their client (and themselves) doesn't end up with egg on his/their chin, but all the Ibrox clubs and attached lawbreakers seem very adept at confounding what most people would see as justice.
easyJambo 22nd March 2020 at 12:47
………………….
Would problems not arise.
Clubs having a depleted squad, with loan players going back to their parent clubs.
Would clubs be able to strengthen, and maybe able to get that higher place in the league,they otherwise may not have gotten.
Could clubs overspend just to try and win the league or get a european spot.
If this is prolonged could cash strapped cubs have to let players go?
Does anyone know the situation regarding squad players from now to then?
What if a club brings in a new player and his goal is the one that wins a vital game, some may look on that as unfair.
Giovannio your info is really interesting.
Whilst I probably shouldn't be trying to jump the gun I wonder what options would be available to ensure Close Brothers got their money back?
Another football club?
A logistics warehouse?
Housing?
A memorial park?
Allyjambo 22nd March 2020 at 19:50
To the best of my knowledge any outstanding court awards would just be added to the list of creditors. I know of no way that SDI or Hummel/Elite or Memorial Walls can insulate themselves from an insolvency event at TRFC. If TRFC haven’t succumbed to an insolvency event when they are awarded damages etc then they can try to ring fence the monies due to them. However, as far as I’m aware, you can only ring fence cash and bank accounts, not assets. I doubt there will be all that much cash in that event.
There is a presumption on the part of some people that Mr King will be the largest creditor due to his £5m loan and will therefore be able to control any administration event, as Mr Whyte initially tried to do. With the Close Leasing charges and the sums being speculated for SDI I’m not convinced he will be the largest creditor let alone overcome the Close Leasing legal position.
——
adam812 22nd March 2020 at 20:07
I’m fairly confident that Close Brothers will order their appointed administrator/receiver to hold a “fire sale” if necessary to recover their funds. As I said, with no regard to the fate of any football club.
Just something i forgot to ask.
With most folk asked to stay indoors, how much is this effecting the print media? even a few thousand unsold copies each day will hit Then lots of people may just get use to reading online and just stop buying their Daily newspaper.
Giovanni/Allyjambo,
Is there any chance of Mike Ashley and Close cooperating in some way?
A coordinated approach to the RIFC/TRFC admin event could be to mutual benefit.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 19:18
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I am repeatedly reading, on a variety of social media sites, that TRFC will somehow achieve a pre-pack administration and will emerge debt free and in a better financial state than they are now.
………………….
Why would they do that when all the signs coming out of ibrox see them bring in a new PR guy they also have a new partmership with Orange county and we are told there are investors waiting in the wings.And Ashley will owe them millions.
Or am i reading to many of the wrong sites.
I listened with interest earlier today to the BBC Radio programme 'Profile'
I've just listened to it again on this link
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000gksd
It's of about 14 mins duration ( parents, school, uni degrees, hobbies and interests all discussed by former teachers and friends) but if you jump to 09.22 mins you'll hear some critical comments.
The subject being 'profiled' was Andrew Bailey, formerly CEO of the Financial Conduct Authority,('FCA') who took over last Monday as Governor of the Bank of England.
I listened with particular care, for , as I have posted on this blog, I suggested to the FCA back in June/July that they had in 2012 been in breach of their statutory duties when they authorised the Prospectus issued for the RIFC plc float.
Bailey is described as ' a nodding dog(to the Financial services industry), skilful at not answering questions, a 'yes man': and Gina Miller, the Financier and activist wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer seeking an independent review into his appointment as Governor of the B of E.( but this bloody virus thingy has probably ruled out any such review! ).
In my simple way, I reckon that if complaints against operators in the Financial Industries sector were not enthusiastically taken on board on Bailey's watch there is every likelihood that a complaint made by an individual 'nobody '( like me, not an industrialist or Chairman of company or such) against the FCA itself would have been binned early doors.
The most recent email I received from the FCA was received on 20 February.
To protect my position as still wanting to pursue my complaint, I shall send off an email tomorrow asking how the investigation is going.
Cluster One 22nd March 2020 at 20:07
1. Wait – Complete the season when it is safe to resume.
………………….
Would problems not arise.
=========================
There are all sorts of contractual issues with waiting.
————————————
Many politicians, businesses, financial services repeatedly said during the brexit saga that it was uncertainty that inhibits investment and planning for the future. (can we please go back in time to go through brexit again rather than have to deal with covid).
Football is no different. Uncertainty helps no-one, which is why a decision should be made sooner rather than later. We already know that there is a 12 week lockdown on many individuals' freedoms. Do the football authorities really believe that is will be possible to resume and conclude the leagues before the end of June? They are living in cloud cuckoo land.
easyJambo 22nd March 2020 at 20:46
There are all sorts of contractual issues with waiting.
……………..
Agreed. That is why i can’t see any kind of pause restart happening, as it won’t be a pause, restart more a pause, reboot or even a pause slightly different restart. If nothing can’t be done soon (and it looks as if it won’t) then i just can’t see any restart, there are to many issues that would need resolved.
redlichtie 22nd March 2020 at 20:31
Is there any chance of Mike Ashley and Close cooperating in some way?
——
I’m sorry but I fail to see what is in any such arrangement for Close Brothers. They are a secured creditor with not just security on the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House but anything else apart from the Auchenhowie training centre until they get all their funds. Current speculation seems to put the monies due to them at £4m by the end of this month but I’ve no idea whether that is correct. They get paid before SDI or any other creditor. Also from previous estimates the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House are not worth £4m.
BBC Sport Scotland
The current SPFL season must be played to a finish with anything else nothing more than a “fudge”, says former Scottish FA chief executive Stewart Regan.
………………….
Some people have no self- awareness.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 21:31
Also from previous estimates the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House are not worth £4m.
………………
If i remember correctly the ibrox club needs the Albion car park for access to the club deck, no car park no club deck, hence i believe it’s value is worth more than can be seen.
Always happy to be corrected if wrong.
Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 20:21 Allyjambo 22nd March 2020 at 19:50 To the best of my knowledge any outstanding court awards would just be added to the list of creditors. I know of no way that SDI or Hummel/Elite or Memorial Walls can insulate themselves from an insolvency event at TRFC. If TRFC haven’t succumbed to an insolvency event when they are awarded damages etc then they can try to ring fence the monies due to them. However, as far as I’m aware, you can only ring fence cash and bank accounts, not assets. I doubt there will be all that much cash in that event. There is a presumption on the part of some people that Mr King will be the largest creditor due to his £5m loan and will therefore be able to control any administration event, as Mr Whyte initially tried to do. With the Close Leasing charges and the sums being speculated for SDI I’m not convinced he will be the largest creditor let alone overcome the Close Leasing legal position.
_______________
Though I fear you may be correct, I just wonder if an ongoing case could be added to the creditor pile – but if it could, surely SDI could act in a similar way to HMRC and apply for a winding up order in time to scotch a pre-pack admin. I would have to imagine that the law is not so much of an ass that it would allow such underhand pre-pack tactics to subvert the due process of the law and court system. It would surely be a charter for charlatans and all sorts of conmen. Still, as I alluded to earlier, the clubs and lawbreakers of Ibrox do have a knack of getting away with all sorts of dirty tricks.
PS Pre-pack admin, or not, not only would TRFC face a points deduction that would hand Celtic the league with no questions asked, and prevent any future deriding of the victory/9 in a row, they would still have to pay all of the rather onerous outstanding football debts regardless of how clever they might think themselves – and start next season, whenever that might take place, minus 5 points that would create some difficulty in convincing the more sentient bear to buy an ST as stopping 10 would become even more unlikely than stopping 9 was.
PPS Again, I have no real knowledge of the legal implications, but not only do the onerous conditions attached to the Close security you refer to provide a complication for any sort of clean (as in nice and easy) administration, I'd imagine having any sort of significant charge over fixed assets causes all sorts of problems should any insolvent company look to attempt a pre-pack.
Cluster One 22nd March 2020 at 21:46 Giovanni 22nd March 2020 at 21:31 Also from previous estimates the Albion Car Park and Edmiston House are not worth £4m. ……………… If i remember correctly the ibrox club needs the Albion car park for access to the club deck, no car park no club deck, hence i believe it’s value is worth more than can be seen. Always happy to be corrected if wrong.
_________________________
Worth more than can be seen to TRFC, yes, but perhaps not to others, such as Close Bros.
Boom!…..Liquidated….It happens. It will happen to many companies.
Whatever plans Sevco did have in place, (If any), have been usurped without warning.
When Rangers(I.L.), turned their toes skywards, it was planned, and no real surprise. Time was available, and preparations were made. A shareholders meeting took place to change the name, freeing up the old name for Charlie's lip-sticked pig to use. Individuals saw a way to coin a few dollars by doing so……..
No noo!…..No this time.
Project Charlotte never saw this one coming.
It seems that Reagan's armageddon has turned into coronageddon.
Don't forget that there is two companies we are talking about. RIFC and TRFC.
I suspect (as Big Pink did) that Stuart Gibson was serious about investing in Sevco. However, as I have said on here before, I think that he wanted to buy TRFC from RIFC. There was no 'investment' coming.
Why?
RIFC is a dead duck. All past investment was in RIFC not TRFC. That investment was converted into shares. TRFC owe RIFC nothing.
Shareholders of RIFC would have at least received some recompense for their stupidity. They needed a sale.
A good businessman could have done a deal with Ashley negating the legal charges.
Ashley would probably been taken on board the good ship Sevco in one form or another.
The other sportswear legal cases would then have been dropped. One is a nickel and dime company and the other would be more than glad to have been taken under SD's umbrella.
If Sevco was run under good financial management, it would have been a good business to have and develop.
As an aside, the last person you would want to sell a football club in dire financial straights to would be a property developer! Think of the property development going on on the South side of the river by Barclays at Buchanan Wharf. You can never underestimate the earning potential of a shopping centre with good transport links and a car park.
Now? Well everyone is screwed. Ashley won't get a penny. LBJ, Hummel? Forget it. Football debts? I can't even think of an answer for that one. Close Brothers? What are they going to do with some big tellies and some pots and pans?
And there's our impecunious Davie. Hanging around the back of the queue hoping micromega doesn't turn into picomega. I have no idea whether he loaned his £5 million to TRFC or RIFC or if the loan was secured. Either way, he's fecked. Even if he has a secured loan on TRFC we know that it's nothing to do with Ibrox and Close brother have the kitchen sinks tied up.
It's ironic that British football is living in 'interesting times' given where the virus allegedly originated from. The whole fabric of the football environment has changed. To misquote Darwin, it will be the 'survival of the fittest'.
finnmccool 23rd March 2020 at 02:14
RIFC is a dead duck. All past investment was in RIFC not TRFC. That investment was converted into shares. TRFC owe RIFC nothing
___________
Not so sure about that, Fin. TRFC is RIFC's only real asset and owes RIFC every penny the parent company has passed it's way, as shown in the accounts of both companies. If RIFC goes into administration, so does TRFC though it could be sold as a going concern by the administrators of RIFC in the same way any other asset could be sold.
It's really no different than if the club was owned in it's entirety by an individual. If the individual runs out of money and becomes bankrupt then the club is an asset to be sold and the proceeds added to the creditor pot. If there is no buyer for the club then it's assets will be sold off to add to the bankrupt individual's creditor pot. The club would then be wound up or liquidated.
The only way that TRFC could possibly not owe RIFC lots of money would be if the RIFC shareholders* voted in favour of writing off the debt and the holding company, itself, has no creditors looking to be paid what they are owed.
*Not sure of the percentage required to vote it through but expect it would be 75% at least.
JJ excelling himself today. I had to look.
finnmccool 23rd March 2020 at 02:14
Don’t forget that there is two companies we are talking about. RIFC and TRFC.
I suspect (as Big Pink did) that Stuart Gibson was serious about investing in Sevco. However, as I have said on here before, I think that he wanted to buy TRFC from RIFC. There was no ‘investment’ coming.
Why?
RIFC is a dead duck.
……………..
At last year AGM king stated.
A consideration of our more devolved decision making has made me reconsider the question as to whether there continues to be benefit in a holding company for The Rangers Football Club versus the more traditional model of a single operating entity with a board that comprises executive and non-executive directors. I have therefore asked the company secretary to investigate the possibility of dismantling the holding company and issuing shareholders with the equivalent shares directly into the football operating company, The Rangers Football Club Limited. I would certainly rather own my shares directly in the football club. Further announcements will be made in due course if this proves to be viable and desirable.
………………….
Looks like king wants rid of the holding company, and in the same breath killed all the ibrox deniers that it was a holding company that died in 2012.
Allyjambo 23rd March 2020 at 10:00
finnmccool 23rd March 2020 at 02:14
RIFC is a dead duck. All past investment was in RIFC not TRFC. That investment was converted into shares. TRFC owe RIFC nothing
__________
Not so sure about that, Fin. TRFC is RIFC's only real asset and owes RIFC every penny the parent company has passed it's way, as shown in the accounts of both companies. If RIFC goes into administration, so does TRFC though it could be sold as a going concern by the administrators of RIFC in the same way any other asset could be sold.
=================================
In the RIFC accounts for 2016, £21.85m of "amounts due from subsidiaries" was reclassified as "investments in subsidiaries". It was referenced as follows:
From that point onwards, further "lending" has been been added to the "investments in subsidiaries" figure which now sits at £60.7m. That is broken down with £13.3m relating to the share swap that was done between TRFC and RIFC at the time of the IPO, and £47.4m flowing from the taps of the shareholder investors over several years.
The bottom line is that TRFC no longer "owes" that cash to RIFC.
There is one exception, the latest £5m from Laird, which is mentioned in the TRFC accounts as a loan in the post balance sheet events.
Aberdeen statement
https://www.afc.co.uk/2020/03/23/afc-update-message-from-the-chairman/
The main difference between the situation today and what it was previously is that it would be fairly straightforward to strip the club (TRFC) from the holding company (RIFC).
However if it was done in the way any "investor" would want it would mean that every investor in RIFC would lose everything they have put in. The major shareholders, Club 1872, the supporters, absolutely everyone.
I don't imagine Close would be that concerned though as the assets they have security over are owned by the subsidiary anyway.
I think the phrase we are all searching for with regard to RIFC/TRFC is that they are Donald Ducked.
They have somehow survived all past predictions of upcoming mortality but surely there is no escape this time?
Will directors take fright over what appears to be trading whilst insolvent? What are the auditors saying? Are these companies really going concerns or even likely to be in the foreseeable future? Just how Close are they to having the rug pulled out from under them? When will the amount of damages payable to SDI be quantified? Will Big Mike come to the rescue?
This is going to be tough for all clubs but I can see some schadenfreudian comfort being taken.
Scottish Football needs a strong (your club).
SFA CEO Maxwell, quoted in the GT today;
"…Everyone wants to get the games played, the guys who get the winner’s medals at the end of the season want to know they’ve played every match and no-one can come back and say they didn’t deserve it in any way…"
=====
First part is correct: of course, all footy fans would want all games played – if it is at all possible.
However, the second part is a pointless / inflammatory (?) comment, and Maxwell stopped just short of saying "tainted".
Jeezo.
Stick him back in the bunker…
the guys who get the winner’s medals at the end of the season want to know they’ve played every match
Eh , they might possibly just want to know that they've played in enough games to merit the award of a medal . I couldn't find the number required in a quick glance through SPFL Rules and Regs but I think it used to be ten .
Anybody else catch Nookie Bear on TV just now? I reckon he was auditioning for the job of rebuilding Scottish football and has modelled himself on all those who have done such an inspiring job previously. On the other hand, maybe he could take over at Celtic and rebuild our game that way…we'd all catch up with him at the helm and have the most competitive league in the world in no time.
The only problem is, if he does get one of those jobs, one of the idiots who voted him in as leader of the Con Party will be the next Prime Minister…
I think the PM just ruled out any behind closed door sport with his announcement about restricted gatherings.
In fact we have, in practical terms, reached the end of the season methinks.
So … back to null and void (which I certainly don't favour) or carry over to next season – with a whole host of unresolved issues (club survival, contracts, season ticket sales, other financial implication such as TV money etc etc!!!).
Although that is still a nightmare scenario for our trusted (?) football authorities, I think the latest social restrictions have removed at least one obstacle.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/23/scottish-football-season-clear-plan-squabbling
I complete the cryptic crossword in the guardian every day but I don't have a clue what Ewan Murray is trying to say here. If it comes to me over the next few days of lockdown I'll provide a translation but if anyone can help I'd greatly appreciate it.
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
Another liquidation denier . The club found itself dead . And that’s just the first two sentences .
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
========================
Can be summarised quite simply. He would like the league to be played to a finish, then adapt the 2020/21 season accordingly.
He references Scottish Football’s ability to find reasons for not doing something, but counters that with its ability to adapt and survive regardless of the obstacles it faces.
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
'..I don't have a clue what Ewan Murray is trying to say here. '
…………………
What a hopelessly unstructured , all over the place, inconsequential piece of writing!
I'd be ashamed to put my name to that, whatever points he was trying to make!
He writes like one of those hypothetical monkeys sitting at a typewriter clattering the keys ,in an experiment to see whether by pure chance it might write a 'Hamlet' or 'War and Peace'.
Absolutely appalling, definitely bottom of the class and an insult to any reader!
ulyanova 23rd March 2020 at 22:05
Comes over as a CFC hater as well . Why should they shoulder the burden of the other clubs' shortfall . It would just as easily given TRFC the unassailable high ground if Stewart Robertson , after his sound-bite about integrity (quiet at the back) , had offered help to the toiling opposition .
It's a piss-poor article .
"The club found itself dead."
Here it is Ewan https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/rfc-2012-plc
For those of you looking to pass away a few lockdown hours could I recommend The English Game on Netflix.
Based on fact but with a lot of artistic licence it tells the story of the development of professional football and the roll two Scottish players in particular had in changing what was The Brutal Game into The Beautiful Game.
Lucy Mangan in the Guardian gave it 1 star out of 5 but don't let that put you off as she only gave Chernobyl 3 out of 5!
It may not be to everyone's taste and some may be annoyed at the introduction of an alcoholic scottish character but for me it has been a welcome escape in difficult times!
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1242294842606190592?s=21
Big Mike, what is he like?
Adam812@00.39
English Game??
https://twitter.com/govindajeggy/status/1242388686165204993?s=21
Kudos to Big Mike
Ex Ludo 24th March 2020 at 10:00
Apparently Ashley, who pays peanuts to workers on zero hours contracts, is so kind hearted he considers the nation's health paramount but has now had a change of heart and has decided to close his 'vital to the nation' stores. Not that profit was a consideration in his original plan to stay open. No, not with Big Mike.
Maybe, like the owners of some small breweries and distilleries who've turned to producing alcohol based hand wash, he might now start producing, free of charge to the NHS, carers etc, some Personal Protective Equipment. (I do realise that PPE will probably have to be produced by licensed suppliers, but there's nothing to stop the Big Mikes of this world/country sticking some of their less than morally earned megabucks into financing the production of whatever the NHS is currently crying out for.) In the end, the lives they help save and the goodwill they foster might just produce profit for them in the future (whatever that may hold).
AJ, During WW2 a huge amount of manufacturing companies had to change their output to suit the war effort. So some companies stepping up to produce PPE etc. is not without merit or precedence.
btw, a lot of firms still made a fortune during the war!
Jimbo@11.56
Elon Musk has apparently given ventilators to California and there’s a specialist car engine tuning company in Oxfordshire switching production and re-tooling to produce medical equipment. All sorts of 3D printing going on and the workshops look like operating theatres, only cleaner.
Ex Ludo, yes I just read that after I had posted! It's the right thing to do. I hope the scientists and pharmaceutical companies are working overtime on a vaccine.
jimbo 24th March 2020 at 11:56
Yes, and as was seen with 'Red' Clyde in WW1, not only were they not satisfied with making profit from the ships they built, but when that profit was threatened by reduced payments for ships they dropped wages and upped the rents and shop prices for the workers to (for some) starvation levels.
While the smaller manufacturers may do their bit for the nation, the megabucks ones will require government intervention (if ever it comes) before they do anything for the benefit of the many.
Anyway, Jimbo, take care and stay safe. And the same for everyone on SFM and your families and friends.
https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1242444286274220035?s=21
More Big Mike news. Whit are these capitalists like?
Phil posits a possible Premier proposal…..practical/pragmatic in a pandemic?
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/03/24/an-acceptable-end-to-the-pandemic-season/
Scottish Football needs good alliteration.
Redlichtie@17.07
Let’s Save Sevco’s blushes.
Perhaps!
SFNASA
It looks like peace has finally broken out between the Lowland League and the West Region Juniors in their pyramid discussions. Following a video conference yesterday, it was agreed that the LL will run the new WoSFL next season and is currently accepting applications, the deadline for which has been extended to 7 April.
I'd expect that most of the West Region Juniors will now apply to join the new league, as one of the signatories to the statement was the WRJ representative.
Eight of the remaining East Region Junior clubs (mainly from Fife) have already applied to join the EoSFL for next season.
If, as expected at a meeting next month, the North Region Juniors decide to join the pyramid below the Highland League, then it will probably be the death knell for Junior football in Scotland.
The only question would be about the future of the two remaining groups of junior clubs in Tayside and West Lothian, who either have no natural geographic league to join, or have previously rejected the opportunity to join the senior leagues.
http://slfl.co.uk/west-of-scotland-league-update-2/
With all the uncertainty, it’s difficult to state today what the ‘best’ answer is WRT league games outstanding.
But, what is certain: we are all in lockdown for at least 3 weeks.
To enable clubs/fans etc. to plan ahead, the SFA & SPFL could be communicating their decisions ASAP.
And it’s inevitable that some will be unhappy with whatever decisions are made.
Why wait?
Remove the uncertainty around this season now – and start planning now for the various scenarios around next season.
"Never let a crisis go to waste" or words to that effect have been said more than once throughout history . In times of crisis peoples true colours are often revealed . The Branson's, Bezos' and Ashley Billionaire club are clearly more concerned with wealth than humanity (anyone surprised?) While people are concerned with societal collapse those with most to lose are trying to ensure they lose as little as possible . Today I learnt this
https://www.trouw.nl/economie/klanten-van-abn-amro-moeten-hun-goud-verkopen~b668b850/?referer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FawCSfpQuuj%3Famp%3D1&utm_campaign=shared_earned&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
In short ABN Amro bank is forcing its clients to sell their holdings in gold,silver and platinum stored at the bank . It was exactly for situations such as this that they invested in precious metals in the first place . With the Fed Reserve stating they will create as much currency as it takes to get through this crisis, thoughts of Venezuela,Zimbabwe,Hungary,Weimar and hundreds of other examples of hyperinflation should register . ABN Amro along with all the other bullion banks have been playing a game in the bullion market for a very long time now . For every real 1 oz of gold that exists in its vaults there are over 100 paper certificates with a claim on that gold . A reminder that the last full audit of Fort Knox was in the 1950s and the suspension of the gold backing of the $ by Nixon in 1971 was stated to be a temporary measure to stabilise the market is still with us today. I fully expect a flood of "cash for gold" adverts to start appearing on tv , most of them are rip off merchants feeding off peoples desperation and if possible avoid them like the plague . I have in the recent past worked with a bullion company , I have never seen the shelves as empty as they are today . What coins are still for sale have a high premium on the spot price seen on the charts . Our financial system is broken and has been for many years , QE and zero interest rates have been a temporary elastoplast on a bullet wound .
They won't let this health crisis go to waste , the finger of blame is already being pointed at the Chinese by the powers that be as well as the ignorant and uninformed and when the inevitable happens at Ibrox it won't be King's gross mismanagement to blame but Covid 19 . I hope when this is all over we remember what is of real value , our tireless medical staff and those essential workers that trudged into the factories and supermarkets for a pittance because they cared and we don't forget those who tried to exploit us and/or hid in their Castles and Stately homes and said nothing. Stay safe, stay healthy and don't let the bastards grind you down
Timtim 24th March 2020 at 18:31
Your comment is awaiting moderation
seriously?
Timtim
Bad word?
I take it there was no court today for the court guys.
The English FA has decided to end the season for Steps 5 & 6 (5/6 steps below League 2 of the EFL) of their pyramid. However they have yet to make a decision on whether to declare the season Null & Void, or declare winners and losers on a Points Per Game basis. It seems that clubs are split 50/50.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11963052/fa-cancels-non-league-football-season-at-steps-five-and-six
It's a link in Dutch , the H word has a different meaning there
Timtim, I thought it was only China and Russia that had the physical gold reserves these days…?
And as for ABN Amro: it might be carved into ‘Mr.’ Goodwin’s gravestone. His crazy, final acquisition which quickly caught up with the megalomaniac and RBS…
and we, the taxpayers, still own over 60% of RBS 12 years later.
StevieBC
you and i know we own not one thing in that bank
I see that Ross McCrorie (on loan to Portsmouth from TRFC) has been confirmed as having the Coronavirus (he’s Pompey’s fifth player to contract it).
Cluster One 24th March 2020 at 18:36
"..I take it there was no court today for the court guys"
……………..
As expected, Cluster One,
"Courts have already ceased all jury trials, adjourned all but essential summary criminal trials, adjourned all civil hearings involving witnesses and Tribunals will only proceed with essential hearings by audio conference. We have also backed this up with strong advice to the public not to attend our buildings….
John Clark 24th March 2020 at 19:20
As you know the courts take a long time to do anything, this lockdown will kick everything down the road.
……………….
Timtim
Bad word
…
the H word has a different meaning there
……….
I thought it was the B word;-)
Ment to add.
As you know the courts take a long time to do anything, this lockdown will kick everything down the road.
This won’t do the ibrox club any good at trying to get a new kit deal for the start of next season. But on the plus side. if it is a pause/start the ibrox club could always get away with playing in last seasons kit.
A wee read from The Guardian .
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/24/a-letter-from-italy-stop-and-go-inside-football-coronavirus-united
And another – had to look up the track , though !
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/mar/24/david-squires-on-premier-league-managers-under-lockdown
Timtim 24th March 2020 at 18:31
'…I fully expect a flood of "cash for gold" adverts to start appearing on tv , most of them are rip off merchants feeding off people…'……………………………………………..I
' Interestingly enough, Timtim, there was a little piece by Emma Newlands in 'The Scotsman' this morning from which I extract this:
" The Pure God Company has revealed that it has seen a 980 ( nine hunerr and eighty!!) percent increase in British people panic-buying gold bars and coins over the past week as compared to the weekly average over the last year. ….[driven by] " acute fear and uncertainty about the trajectory of the corona virus….."
CEO Josh Saul said " Our clients are not purchasing gold to make money. It's not really about growth but about wealth protection in an asset class that offers a degree of immunity from the fallout of the coronavirus"
There's this world, and the next world….. and the world of those who buy gold!
Cluster One 24th March 2020 at 18:36
John Clark 24th March 2020 at 19:20
Cluster One 24th March 2020 at 19:58
Ment to add.
As you know the courts take a long time to do anything, this lockdown will kick everything down the road.
===========================
SCTS Supreme Courts@SCTSSupremeCrts 52m
Only essential business is now being dealt with in the Court of Session. ‘Essential’ is: child abduction petitions, interim interdicts and other urgent matters on cause shown.
Delays are an inevitable consequence of the current situation.
PriceOfFootball@KieranMaguire54m
Due to Coronavirus Macclesfield Town winding up order due tomorrow pushed back to 17 June and Oldham Athletic 1 July #MTFC #OAFC
OOps- The Pure GOLD Company!! ( 3 days of self-isolation and I'm going stir-crazy!)
If this guy was in charge we'd be back playing in weeks. The Daily Updates at the end of the article is where the most interesting stuff is
Don't shoot the messenger, I've been working my way through all the links trying to see if he's misrepresenting or falsifying or just using unreliable sources, but what I can understand language wise it's all seeming legit so far
It's given me food for thought today anyway
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
gogs
cheers for that
gogs 24th March 2020 at 22:28
‘…Don’t shoot the messenger,…’
……………….
Wouldn’t dream of shooting you, gogs! ( having as you do a blog name that a classmate of mine sixty-odd years ago had as a nickname)
I am no scientist or medical researcher or even statistician.
I can ask questions, though.
And the first question is: are the stats quoted by the Swiss doctor accepted generally by the ‘world’?
The second question is, if what he says are actual facts and are accepted as actual facts, how do we account for the very different interpretations of the ‘facts’? Is it a world-shattering pandemic that justifies the unprecedented , worldwide response that we have seen?
Not to trivialise, of course, but is what we are seeing in reaction to Covid-19 no more justified than was the response by our football authorities to the hysterical cry of ‘Armageddon!’ for Scottish football on the death ( caused by underlying corrupting disease!) of RFC of 1872?
JC
And these are the exact questions that I’ve been playing around with since reading this.
As I say, the Daily Updates have plenty of links, they (the ones in English anyway) seem to be reputable sources, not some manufactured tinpot conspiracy sites.
Only time will tell if decisions made by Governments worked but we’ll never know if they were correct or wrong as they will just be what happened, anything else will be supposition.
What we do know is that there will be many premature deaths from the lockdown, whether it’s from people not getting medical treatment they need, mental health support missing, a general drop in living standards due to poverty brought on, many things.
I’m reminded of Fukushima where I think around 10 people actually died from radiation poisoning, but over 1500 from reasons associated with the evacuation. But no one would argue that evacuation was the wrong call.
I just hope this upheaval is actually worth it
But, on the positive, if the guy is right then the numbers of people who will die prematurely from this will actually be a lot lower than projected.
And 40 years of UK public spending cuts will have been rolled back in one fell swoop
We’ll see……..
I see so far only Hearts and Aberdeen have spoken publicly about the financial impact the current crisis is having on their clubs. Both people who have spoken are successful business people and will be sure of their facts. There will of course be a huge impact on every club including Celtic, depending on how long football remains in limbo. The media are being very general in their forecasts of doom but in my view the obvious elephant in the room they won't mention is Rangers, who have huge operating costs, and have themselves stated in audited accounts many millions will be needed to see out this season, and that was with every game being played.
Football is way down the current priority list, but it will be of great interest to see how events unfold. It might not just be Rangers who face financial Armageddon, but if rules are bent, broken or made up again to protect them or indeed any club, then surely Financial Fair Play in Scotland becomes a must from that point on.
“Football is way down the current priority list, but it will be of great interest to see how events unfold. It might not just be Rangers who face financial Armageddon, but if rules are bent, broken or made up again to protect them or indeed any club, then surely Financial Fair Play in Scotland becomes a must from that point on.”
(UTH 7.06am)
You would think so wouldn’t you?
But rules being bent & broken and made up is second nature to the people of influence. It’s in their DNA. Will they change? I very much doubt it sorry to say.
We need a new set up with different people.
jimbo, we shouldn't really have to worry about how this crisis impacts Scottish football.
We have the experienced Rod Petrie running the show now, who did such a sterling job – being fair and honest – when sorting out the last crisis in 2012.
A safe pair of hands.
'Respected and Trusted to Lead' and all that…
gogs
You may be interested to know that as of March 19th The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) has posted online their EXPERT opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.
That means the UK government has downgraded the status of the disease. It is no longer considered a High Consequence Infectious Disease. They state quite clearly, that mortality rates are low overall.
Odd that this was announced nearly a week ago but has not been mentioned in the MS media.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid
finnmccool 25th March 2020 at 13:58
'…Odd that this was announced nearly a week ago but has not been mentioned in the MS media.'
………………
Unless the 'government' sources of info have been hacked, and nobody has noticed after 4 days or so ( which is highly unlikely), the assumption must be that that announcement is stating factual truth . But perhaps the classification of diseases is so highly technical that not being 'high-consequence infectious' does not mean that the elaborate measures now being urged on us are not appropriate.
In which case, the media probably have been briefed not to publish the announcement for fear that the public might dismiss the Government's actions as unnecesssary………
I read the 'Swiss doctor's stuff,and could feel myself hoping and wishing it was the truth! Reading the announcement by Public Health England kind of emotionally encourages that feeling!
Not yet to the point of stopping being 'self-isolating', mind you.
But I really think that Public Health update should not have been published in th way it was.
Yeah Finn, that was one of the daily updates in Gogs' link above detailing an alternative narrative to that which is being reported.
Mentioning Gogs' link prompts me to post the thoughts I had when I saw the 'evidence' against the prevailing narrative being gathered so succinctly. I don't feel I'm particularly conspiracy-minded, but I AM tended not to trust power-wielding authorities, so seeing the reported numbers infected/deaths in the early days, I didn't trust all the advice re self isolation/lockdown as it seemed an almighty overreaction to the small numbers I was seeing reported.
I'm not trying to make light of the virus and, very worryingly, this might make me sound a bit like Donald Trump (!), but the questions raised by Gogs' link – specifically that of numbers reported as "dying from Coronavirus" versus those "dying with Coronavirus" (a very important distinction) and that of "excess (or additional) mortality" simply aren't being asked! Even when I started to get a little worried when I saw the reported numbers growing so much, I still worried about the terminology used in the advice e.g. stay home, enforce compliance etc. I do genuinely still worry that this is some sort of social experiment to see how far the powers that be can impose their will on a population by utilising (unfounded?) fear as a control mechanism. If it is found that a population will readily acquiesce in the face of an unseen threat that can be reported as a pandemic, is it really such a big step to e.g. imposing a curfew (or worse) on London's teens to prevent the high number of knife-related murders?
I realise that does make me sound a bit of a conspiracy theorist so in trying to rationalise this thinking, the best I can do is to assess the pros and cons of a governments scaremongering.
Pros
1. The experiment lets them know how pliable we are in the face of a potential/imagined threat.
2. They don't get found out – if deaths don't outstrip the norm, the argument can be made that the actions taken controlled the virus as they planned. I.e."Oh yes there WAS a killer virus!"
3. Seems to allow transfer of wealth from poorer to richer e.g. via Govt handouts to business in compensation – Amazon? Virgin? – which the taxpayer will ultimately fund.
4. There is a chance that they are doing nasty stuff under cover of Coronavirus. E.g. Hong Kong protests stopped, Brexit criticism stopped, immigration debate off the table etc
Cons
1. The experiment highlights their lack of preparedness e.g. lack of ventilators, protective gear etc
2. Lack of ICU beds is a clear indication of their lack of investment in the NHS.
3. Governments are being made to look incapable (albeit with some slack cut for the apparent unprecedented nature of the issue). Latest example today – "All hotels to close." "Shit, what about all those homeless families housed there by councils with no housing stock?!?!"
4. Economies worldwide are absolutely tanking, which on the face of it is a Con. (Is there a chance, though, that this could be a Pro for Governments? Some people are suggesting that it is causing a total Economic reset which Govts can blame on the Pandemic rather than their irresponsible policies.)
That's as far as my wee brain can take this, I think. Apologies if it's too political, but with no football to talk about…..!
I'm still a little worried that we're being played here, so I'd be glad for any logical comment to see if my mind can be set to rest.
finnmccool 25th March 2020 at 13:58
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gogs
You may be interested to know that as of March 19th The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) has posted online their EXPERT opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Yeh thanks, that’s actually in the updates in that link I posted, just one of many pieces of info from the article that should be wider know I would say
Good news is reports of a home testing kit available ‘in a few days’
That will be a game changer, everyone tested, these that have it, isolation, these that have had it or are free of it, back to some semblance of normality
And nawlite , your reply hit home to me, I’m miles away from the conspiracy rabbit hole, I feel similar to you, I actually went to this site to see what I could disprove and it turns out, not that much!!!
I do think the simplest explanation is still that Governments are winging it and no one wants to be the one to say it’s all ok when it’s not, so mass lockdown and then deal with the consequences.
The ability to increase surveillance is more of a useful by product than a reason in the first place I’d say .
Hi John
The link to the Government website defines which diseases are HCID. Worth a look.
The government's actions are a suspicious overreaction. Why were the same actions not taken for the swine flu pandemic? A much more virulent and nasty virus still classed as HCID.
In Scotland we rightly moan at the inability of journalists to ask hard pertinent questions. The GB MSM is 100 times worse.
I'm a data scientist. Data talks. Not mummy and daddy going over the same claptrap on Sky news. I like to ask simple questions. How many people have been tested? What was the % of positive results? How many go on to develop symptoms? How many develop mild symptoms? How many need to be treated in an ICU. What is the mortality rate? What is the recovery rate? What is the age ranges of those who unfortunately die? Did they have other diseases?
I could go on. But these are the simple questions. It's our job as citizens to ask them before we allow our economy to tank with resultant social breakdown.
Gogs, the worrying thing is that (unfortunately!) Trump is the only one in power saying it!! ("Over by Easter") and because he is such a dummy on most other issues, he is being laughed at /ignored on this. Even if he believes what he is saying and turns out to be right, he is still going along with the prevailing narrative of lockdown etc.
Two years ago winter deaths in Scotland were at an all time high. This was attributed to 'flu. After all this is over it will be a useful comparison. Lower/same rate this year, we all played our part in self isolating? Higher rate, the measures taken were ineffective? Lies,damn lies and statistics.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45876204
The DR online has a list of 5 players valued at £15.5 million which they reckon would improve a team that will struggle to exist beyond the next payday! Apart from giving me an opportunity to chuckle it has got me thinking about the impact Covid-19 will have on the game.
I do wonder what the effect will be on the transfer market and would suggest that there is real possibility that clubs, even the more financially secure, will greatly reduce playing squads. This may result in a reduction in transfer fees except for the very top players and even in that market I wouldn't be surprised to see a reduction in values as sponsorship will be reduced.
There may be an opportunity for some well run clubs to improve their playing squads. This is not necessarily much different from how it's always been but could be on a scale we've never experienced.
Just few thoughts from me but I am interested to hear the views of other contributers.
adam812
Totally agree about the value of players in what will certainly be a depressed transfer market. Crazily, we're still reading about 40 and 50 million values (throughout Europe!!).
Forget about that – I reckon Edouard's price will be around 25 mill (Morelos 5-8 mill). Young Hickey (not so l;ong ago rated at 5-8 mill, should fetch around 1mill
At least the pandemic will bring economic realism to what has been an increasingly crazy world of transfers.
I'm 68 years old and have ischaemic heart disease, I'm in pretty good health now but if I contract the Coronavirus and, as a result, have a second cardiac arrest, will it matter to those who would downplay the seriousness of the pandemic what my primary cause of death was? Will they say 'it's alright, he didn't actually die of the virus, he'd probably have been gone within the next 10 years, anyway'?
If thousands of us die will it be alright as long as it wasn't from a more serious virus?
I read that report that gave statistics showing that virtually all the deaths from the virus in Italy involved the old and already ill and, for a moment I thought, 'oh well, it's not so bad then'. Then I thought, how f**king callous of me, for it's not alright to accept deaths just because those dying are much older than me or already more seriously ill, for they have just as much right to live as anyone else.
Regardless of what is done from here on in to stem the tide of deaths, hundreds, probably thousands, will die, perhaps not from the virus, itself, but as a result of contracting it. I wouldn't want to be one of those who live for another 40 or 50 years in the knowledge that they preferred that their Government did less, rather than more, than was necessary to ensure it reduced the number of deaths as much as possible regardless of what section of society the majority of deaths came from, and regardless of how inconvenient it's methods to control it were for those most likely to survive.
There is also the thought to be considered that if the UK, having had months to prepare for this supposedly not so deadly virus, can't be more ready than it is, what are our chances when the type of virus that COVID-19 is apparently less serious than hits? If anyone feels that the current efforts are a bit OTT think on that for a moment.
If it helps, think on it as a dry run for the time a pandemic hits the young and healthy just as much as the old and not so healthy. But we are not controlling it, we are nowhere near controlling it, and we don't know what, if any, lasting effects there will be or even if we can eventually kill it off.
Allyjambo 25th March 2020 at 17:08
===========================
The very old and very ill die, naturally, of a range of progressive illnesses and more immediate events. Those more immediate events can be sudden, such as a stroke or coronary thrombosis, or by the onset of a short term illness, such as Covid-19, seasonal flu, or even the common cold which develops into pneumonia, ultimately causing death.
One of my friends recently lost his mother, aged 92. The doctor had advised the family that once you get into your 90s, then half of those will not live to celebrate their next birthday. I don’t think the death rate is as high as 50% for a 90 year old, but if you use 30% as the death rate for someone in their 90s and 50% for those in their 100s, you can illustrate the progression in life expectancy for a sample of 10,000 90 year olds as below.
Age Survivors
90 10000
91 7000
92 4900
93 3430
94 2401
95 1681
96 1176
97 824
98 576
99 404
100 282
101 141
102 71
103 35
104 18
105 9
106 4
107 2
108 1
109 1
110 0
AJ, I hope you accept my post wasn't about 'they'll die anyway'. Obviously, it's a terrible thing if any elderly person with pre-existing conditions dies because of the addition of common flu or Coronavirus or anything else.
I'm simply trying to reconcile in my own mind why governments are reacting this way to Coronavirus when they don't to common flu. I'm coming round to the view that Cv is not going to cause 'additional mortality' over flu-related deaths in recent years. I know that's easier for me to say than for those charged with public health powers but no one seems to be asking if there is real evidence to support the rush to emergency powers. If you do, you're accused of not taking it seriously (I am) or not caring that people may die (I do).
As you say, if this leads to fewer flu/virus-related deaths in future, then great news.
ICT PRESS RELEASE.
Good for them ?
Caley Jags Manager Robbo was at the wheel yesterday as he was out and about the Inverness area with Assistant Scott Kellacher and some of the 1st Team delivering some of the ICT TogetherNess shopping packages to pensioners who are in isolation like the rest of the country at the moment.
Over 100 households have been supplied with shopping bags thanks to the kind donations of Caley Jags fans and local businesses and families.
Goalkeeper Mark Ridgers, striker James Keatings and Robbo delivered to some very surprised but appreciative recipients of the #ICTTogetherNess initiative.
(Ends)
I normally just lurk but I thought some may be interested in an online magazine that focuses on fitba' in the north and north east of Scotland. It's produced by my wife's young cousin who is a young student journalist, so please be kind.
https://issuu.com/anthonyevans97/docs/northern_fitba__mag
nawlite 25th March 2020 at 18:21
Nawlite,
I deliberately didn't aim my post at anybody, just at the notion that these type of statistics are helpful at the time the tragedy is unfolding. I am sure that these statistics will be very helpful in forming future strategies and for medical students in their studies, but right now they will save no one, for they do not point to a way to stop the virus spreading.
At this moment in time I care not for how this compares with previous epidemics/pandemics other than in lessons to be learned on how to stop it or reduce it's harm, but would say that if the effort that is being made across the world is so much greater than in these earlier cases, imagine how much worse the Coronavirus statistics would now be if those efforts were not being made.
My attitude will always be to save lives first, then study the results and argue whether or not the financial cost and inconvenience was worth it later.
In my opinion there can be little doubt that there would have been many more cases and deaths without the efforts that have been made, and many less if the efforts had been made quicker (where possible) and more robust from the start.
Nawlite, the TD is not from me
just wanted you to know that.
Allyjambo 25th March 2020 at 19:12
EDIT
"At this moment in time I care not for how this compares with previous epidemics/pandemics other than in lessons to be learned on how to stop it or reduce it's harm, but would say that if the effort that is being made across the world is so much greater than in these earlier cases, imagine how much worse the Coronavirus statistics would now be if those efforts were not being made."
—-
This to me would be the core of the current debate. The answer from some quarters is we don't know, whereas the necessity of ice rink to morgue conversion in Spain suggests it might indeed be far worse.
gunnerb 25th March 2020 at 19:30
It used to be a common phrase on here, and hopefully will be again, that we are living in interesting times, but for now, sadly, I feel we are living in scary times, very scary times, indeed.
My opinion , and it is only that , is that when Western governments looked at Wuhan and saw the resources and the social control required to neuter the virus they simply sht the bed . There was no way they could close and lock down the affected areas in the same manner as the Chinese Communist Party did , so they didn't . They were happy to treat it like a normal flu outbreak . Once it hit Europe and they saw the carnage that was being inflicted on the populations of affected countries , they sht the bed again and imposed the restrictions we currently labour under . The hope must be to totally eliminate the virus world-wide so that we don't have a second coming in the winter , which could decimate populations in affected countries . So if it dies out in a month we should isolate for a month until it does . I hope it does and the loss of life ceases . The world has changed because of this emergency and I don't see it going back to as was . ( It's also my opinion that the Government of this country should have locked down London and the South East a month ago to spare the rest of the country some grief ).
I've just listened to BBC Radio 4's 'More or less' programme's 'Corona Virus special', discussing the statistics being reported and what they might mean.
I found it quite interesting and to some extent illuminating
Yousould find it on this link
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p087n42r
Paddymalarkey@21.50
The virus in London may in time develop the same way it has in New York and that would be appalling. My son who lives in London has been working from home for the last 10 days on the instructions of his company, a US law firm. He put himself in lock down a week ago. I don’t know if this fits in with the conspiracy stuff but I’m glad he did it. Stay safe.
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1242940486324834304?s=21
Some pertinent questions asked in this.
Ex Ludo 25th March 2020 at 22:55
It just keeps getting scarier.
Ex Ludo
Emergency Planning Officers have worked on steps to be taken in the event of incidents like a pandemic for many years to make sure contingency measures can be quickly put in place.
Just a few years ago I attended a session where we looked at what would be the response if one of the many large cruise ships which visit a number of Scottish ports got into serious difficulties.
There was reassurance that modern ship design and facilities on board meant that a Titanic type disaster was unlikely but we still had to consider the scenario whereby all passengers and crew had to leave the ship. Even if this could be done in an orderly fashion sorting out 5000 plus people in a Highland town it was a huge challenge!
What I gained from the session was that resources would be available from all the emergency and voluntary services so that no one should be overwhelmed.
The planners have to prepare for the worst though hopefully the measures introduced will lessen the impact of the pandemic which is close to the biggest nightmare for them.
Purely based on the numbers we can see how some parts of the country have to be ready sooner.
We will get through this though sadly many will suffer a lot of hardship.
As an aside I was lucky enough to be able to buy a pack of chicken breast the other day. Having realised the pack was leaking slightly I warned the checkout operator to be careful. I couldn't stop myself from commenting how different it used to be when all you had to worry about was getting salmonella poisoning!
Charles.
Apparently.
I absolutely abhor the MSM's slight that his plight is headline.
We are the front pages.
Adam812@00.01
Interesting that you highlight cruise ships, Most businesses negatively affected by the virus will eventually recover over time. It is however the end of the line for these floating towns. I can’t imagine anyone in those companies key demographics getting back on board once the present crisis is finished. I’m glad I bought an old camper van when I retired and before anyone asks it’s still winterised on a friend’s farm. Stay safe.
I don't post this as a comment on the current pandemic; I post it as an example of how low a journalist will go to get 'blue clicks' for his story:
Matthew Lindsay, the 'Chief Football Writer', in the Herald has an 'exclusive' —
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18334630.marco-negri-situation-italy-tough—dont-room-cemeteries-put-dead/
Disgraceful.
Allyjambo 25th March 2020 at 17:08
Well said.
This move towards a "they would have died anyway" mentality is stunning.
The social distancing and self isolation is designed to help people in the vulnerable groups. Not the people who would see it as a bit of a cold and be fine in a few days.
The vulnerable groups are also not just the elderly, they include many people, who whilst they are going to die anyway (we all are) would hope that it is several decades away from them.
The suggestion that this is an over-reaction, or some sort of social engineering experiment, or indeed a move towards a totalitarian state seems a bit off to me.
It's trying to save lives.
I note that some of the biggest clubs in the world are currently in talks with their players to explore wage cuts given the current coronavirus situation.
Good to see Scottish clubs like Hearts and Aberdeen being quick off the mark in terms of recognizing a potential problem and looking at ways to ensure their clubs future. No doubt others will follow.
Tax dodging EBTer Kris Boyd will of course now be changing his tune regards the actions of Ms Budge and want to see T'Rangers name up their so they can have headlines associating them with the likes of Barcelona, Juventus and Bayern!!!
Ex Ludo
Whilst I agree that in the short term the cruise industry is likely to take a hit I am not so sure about in the long term especially in our part of the world.
The ships coming into the Highlands come from UK and European ports so all will have the advantage of probably being able to guarantee a return to your point of departure. I can imagine confidence might return to this market from departure countries but people may think twice about flying somewhere to join a cruise.
The port of Invergordon had an estimated 180 000 visitors last year providing a valuable boost to the Highland economy so I am sure efforts will be made to restart when safe to do so.
Not everyone welcomed the huge influx of tourists because, for example, service buses could be swamped leaving no space for locals to travel to their work. That said last year extra buses were provided on cruise ship days to lessen the problem.
Campervans are another story all together. I guess there it will be a while before I see a steady stream of Italian vans passing by or 20 German vans in Morrisons supermarket car park all at the same time!
To get back to football the drop in income that many will experience may well affect attendances but perversely may provide an opportunity too. If costs are reduced we just may get even more people going to matches. Clubs will have to be smart and not try to be too greedy when The Beautiful Game returns.
Slight deviation, but just realised that both TRFC and the royal family have something in common: crap PR management.
TRFC we all know about: the unqualified Traynor now being replaced by another unqualified individual, (who also comes with assorted, negative baggage).
The royal family has had its own PR 'missteps' around Harry & Meghan, Prince Andrew – and now Prince Charles' PR shot to the foot for travelling, with an entourage, and then jumping the queue to get a test for him, his wife, and presumably his entourage?
Did nobody think to mention that travelling to Scotland during an imposed lockdown might not look too good, you know… from a PR perspective…?
Mibbees they just don't need decent PR management then?TRFC and the royal family might have a similar, arrogant mindset: WATP and everyone else can just bugger off?
‘StevieBC 26th March 2020 at 11:12
Did nobody think to mention that travelling to Scotland during an imposed lockdown might not look too good, you know… from a PR perspective…?’
###################
Nothing to do with ‘a PR perspective’, I think: geographically distancing the Royal Family at this time is (probably) part of pre-arranged disaster planning.
As an aside, the Duke of Rothesay is now fairly local to Scotland’s only (I think) adult ECMO machine, which is located in Aberdeen. Strange that…
wottpi 26th March 2020 at 11:00
========================
No club will be immune from a financial hit. Some will have very wealthy owners who are able to pick up the deficit, but everything is relative to incomings and outgoings, no matter the size of the club.
As for Kris Boyd, it amazes me that the Scottish Media are willing to put him up as someone whose opinion should be valued. I'm not fully aware of what he said about Anne Budge and the action she has taken, but I do know who I would trust to financially manage a business between the the two of them!
Here is a small distraction for anyone who wants to think about something else at the moment. I’ll post the answers up later on for those interested. No googling….
1. Name the only Scottish club who has sold a player for a world record fee
2. True or false: Aberdeen are the last team to beat Real Madrid in the final of any major European club competition?
3. Can you name team that has the third most Scottish Cups victories?
4. Which Scottish footballer performed twice in the same episode of Top of the Pops?
5. Name the only Scottish club who has bought a player for a world record fee?
Interesting story in today's sun (I know, I know)
on the 19th Feb Atlanta played Valencia in the CL.
Atalanta, who play in Bergamo (Europe's epicentre), deemed the stadium not big enough for the anticipated crowd and moved the game to the San Siro in Milan.
The crowd was over 50,000.
Spain and Italy are the world's most affected countries.
Anyone even contemplating a return of any sporting event anytime soon belongs in the same padded cell as "the Donald".
HS
Ps just noticed that Valencia's badge has an animal on it …….a bat
Jingso.Jimsie 26th March 2020 at 11:24
‘…geographically distancing the Royal Family at this time is (probably) part of pre-arranged disaster planning.’
……………….
How far I have travelled since the days of my boyhood when , reading the novels of Emma Magdolna Rozália Mária Jozefa Borbála “Emmuska” Orczy de Orci [ Baroness Orczy to you!] featuring ‘The Scarlet Pimpernel”, I actually sympathised with ‘les aristos’ who were saved from the guillotine by the said Scarlet Pimpernel, aka Sir Percy Blakeney
Marchons, marchons……..Vive la republique! A la lanterne les aristos!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52047550
well… the important teams get £400k each, twice what the diddy teams get.
And who cares about those in lower leagues?
we know our place.
A pretty comprehensive statement from Ann Budge on the financial issues facing Hearts and other clubs.
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-statement-march-26th
easyJambo 26th March 2020 at 13:55
Beat me to it EJ. A pretty comprehensive statement, as you say, and probably a fair indication of how things are at most clubs so worth the lengthy read for not only Hearts supporters. She fairly puts the ex-players in the media in their place with their made up and imaginary stories – or is it just their wishful thinking for a club that managed to come out of administration – alive?
fishnish 26th March 2020 at 12:53
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52047550
well… the important teams get £400k each, twice what the diddy teams get.
And who cares about those in lower leagues?
we know our place.
====================================
I’m sure that TRFC’s position on this is that no title can be awarded because of sporting integrity considerations regarding an incomplete season. However, I’m sure that they would want the financial distribution to be based on current positions. There is no financial integrity in that, if you subscribe to the sporting integrity argument.
TRFC wasn’t guaranteed second place either, with Motherwell and Aberdeen both capable of finishing above them, so why should TRFC be rewarded with the 2nd place payment if all the games haven’t been played.
Indeed, you could take the argument further if the season is declared “null & void”. In that situation, the application of sporting integrity and financial integrity should require an equal distribution of funds between all premiership clubs. In that scenario, then who should the SFA put forward as Scotland’s representatives in UEFA competitions for next season? Draw lots?
easyJambo 26th March 2020 at 13:55
That is a very good statement, given the current circumstances.
easyJambo 26th March 2020 at 13:55
A pretty comprehensive statement from Ann Budge on the financial issues facing Hearts and other clubs.
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-statement-march-26th
=========================================================
As upthehoops said re Anne Budge compared to a former footballer “….I do know who I would trust to financially manage a business between the the two of them!”
To me this Hearts statement is exactly the kind of message and setting out of actions that you would want to see from your Club.
The apparent reaction from staff also seems appreciative of the honesty shown and thought out planning that very much takes their needs into account.
Ready Anne Budge’s statement I became strengthened in my view that there should be no relegation from Scottish leagues this season. Clubs have enough to deal with without that added burden.
An early statement on that specific point could be made now and allow clubs to sell season tickets for next year to aid their cashflow.
Scottish Football needs strong and honest management at this critical time.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0S7Y9BLGKzP5g8UzZuaHbINiw
Wasn’t sure if I should share this but thought it provided a counter to the Swiss doctors stats
Emphasises in my mind we should be in a total lockdown, especially London and not a partial as we have now
Note contains conversation some may find upsetting
Scottish football needs more Anne Budges.
Scottish football also needs to reorganize so that the future model is sustainable and based on the football community as a whole and not just two Glasgow based clubs and their fixations with using their uniquely supercharged scale to win what are in reality meaningless silver pots to allow their fans to continually re-enact whatever it is that they re-enact when one wins and one loses.
What chance a "TRFC players offer to take pay cut" type headline in the not too distant future ? Grab the moral high ground .
I don't understand the logic of paying out an early purse based on the current league positions.
For example, coming last in the Prem attracts a dividend of £1.125m. A Prem club will not be receiving an over-payment, if that was to be paid out now, regardless of where they finish. (Or deemed to have finished). Maximum early payment as stands is less than half that.
As a rule of thumb it could be argued that clubs who finish lowest, not only are in most need operating with a lower budget, but relatively speaking, per £ received, it would do more good. It would be of more benefit to the club…..More would keep their jobs.
A sliding scale from bottom to top, as opposed to top to bottom, would to me make more sense, and prove more value to smaller budget clubs.
https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m
Corrupt official 26th March 2020 at 16:29
The payments to clubs are phased over the season, with a relatively large payment in August, a smaller one in December, another small one in April (once the top/bottom six are determined), then a final payment reflecting the finishing positions in the league.
Ms Budge doesn't miss her targets. Pity she isn't capable of wearing the No 9 shirt!!
Wottpi above
Kris Boyd – could you contact Ann Budge to discuss this and the morality of your EBT?
easyJambo 26th March 2020 at 16:50
Corrupt official 26th March 2020 at 16:29
————————————
The payments to clubs are phased over the season, with a relatively large payment in August, a smaller one in December, another small one in April (once the top/bottom six are determined), then a final payment reflecting the finishing positions in the league.
==========================================
Cheers EJ, I wasn't aware of that, but I still feel the same principle should apply. £400K could keep a couple of clubs ticking over and buy them some time.. It will not make a dent in the wage bill at Celtic Park..
bect67
he should contact his brain before speaking
tony 26th March 2020 at 18:33 he should contact his brain before speaking
_______________–
More chance of contacting Elvis than there is of Kris Boyd contacting his brain.
paddy malarkey 26th March 2020 at 15:58
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What chance a “TRFC players offer to take pay cut” type headline in the not too distant future ? Grab the moral high ground .
………….
LEGENDS.
Or has that been done before,
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1243256805607833600/photo/1
Celtic season ticket holders due compensation if season ends – but Rangers 'not liable' for '£3.4m' payout
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5429609/celtic-season-ticket-compensation-rangers-liable-payout/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1585247528
………
Stand by for a club 72 statement
WE WOULD HAVE WAVED THE FEES ANYWAY
Cluster One – things might not be quite as clear cut as The Sun seems to think :
“For Rangers season ticket holders however, the club state that they will not be held liable in the event that games are cancelled.
The Ibrox club’s season ticket terms and conditions for this season state: “The club, in conjunction with the relevant football authorities, reserve the right to alter the published date and/or kick-off time of any fixture at any time.
“The club cannot accept any liability for any expense incurred even in the event that the match is cancelled.””
So fans are not covered “for any expense incurred even in the event that the match is cancelled” – but that does not clearly state that they are also not due a refund for matches paid for but cancelled.
In fact, as the expenses aspect has been singled out for exclusion from the club liability does that not in effect imply that a refund would be due for the value of matches cancelled? Otherwise that too would be similarly clearly excluded.
Surely this is a straightforward case of a vendor failing to provide goods or services purchased?
I also recall that in the event of ambiguity in a contract the judgement/benefit is usually given against the party who drew up the contract.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
I should also have said "Have they not suffered enough?"
Scottish Football needs some good 'no win, no fee' legal services.
Good job the EBT type schemes are now illegal. Imagine people only got 80% of declared earnings in benefits from the government.
Cluster One 26th March 2020 at 19:25
That club has almost the same name . Coincidence ?
And maybe this is how we should be behaving .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52052650
https://twitter.com/govindajeggy/status/1243269909850861568?s=21
Some light in the gloom.
2. True or false: Aberdeen are the last team to beat Real Madrid in the final of any major European club competition?
3. Can you name team that has the third most Scottish Cups victories?
4. Which Scottish footballer performed twice in the same episode of Top of the Pops?
5. Name the only Scottish club who has bought a player for a world record fee?
For anyone interested here are the answers to the questions I posted earlier. Hope everyone is staying safe and well.
1. Answer: In 1914 Hearts sold Percy Dawson to Blackburn for a record £2,500. Adjusted for inflation that would be £241,690 in today’s money.
2. Answer: True. Real Madrid have won all 9 of the finals since then. The UEFA Cup in 1984-85, 1985-86 and the Champions League in 1997-98, 1999-2000, 2001-2002, 2013-14, 2015-16, 2016-17, 2017-18. I’m not including the Super Cup as a ‘major’, with apologies to all Aberdeen fans.
3. Answer: Queens Park have won it ten times. The first one in 1873-74 and the last of them in 1892-93.
4. Answer: In 1982 Steve Archibald sang with the Scotland squad on their World Cup song and with Spurs for their FA Cup final song.
5. Answer: In 1922 Falkirk paid a world record £5000 to West Ham Utd for Syd Puddefoot. In today’s money that would be £275,040.
Finloch 26th March 2020 at 14:39
Scottish football needs more Anne Budges.
Scottish football also needs to reorganize so that the future model is sustainable and based on the football community as a whole and not just two Glasgow based clubs and their fixations with using their uniquely supercharged scale to win what are in reality meaningless silver pots to allow their fans to continually re-enact whatever it is that they re-enact when one wins and one loses.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Agreed. Best post on SFM since its inception.
Cluster One 26th March 2020 at 19:30
Stand by for a club 72 statement WE WOULD HAVE WAVED THE FEES ANYWAY.
====================
What?…..Nae cries of "Onerous contract".
…..I would love to see the annual photos at the rusty ticket office, …. of bears all brandishing a shiny pound………
Charlie Chuckles could hand them out cups of tea from the kitchen windae of his French chateau, as social distancing is enforced.
.
"Loyal follow followers set new world record queue length", will make a great headline.
Wonder how many bears will now be wishing they bought their ST using a credit card?……. Errrrrrrrrrr………….Oooops !.
I guess that the longer there is a footy hiatus, the paying customers could be less inclined to pay the prices when normal service resumes?
We’re all going to feel the pain from this crisis – and hopefully it will just be financial pain.
For me, paying >£60 to take the wife to a home league game is just not going to happen. That choice of expenditure is simply going to drop right down my list of priorities.
Even before the crisis I did choose to decline buying tickets around this price for a midweek game, against a ‘lower level’ opponent: I just thought the pricing was excessive/greedy.
Mibbees this is also an opportunity for the SFA/SPFL and clubs to review ticket pricing generally?
Hate to be a prophet of doom and gloom but if things pan out, numbers go down, however there is still no vaccine, but restrictions start to be eased or lifted, I can’t help thinking the virus would strike again. We might face another lock down.
A season ticket might not be a priority for most until there is more certainty.
Maybe it’s just me being negative.
Ashley has apologised to the 'Government' and generously offered the use of his fleet of lorries to the NHS and other public services in the struggle against covid-19, after the nonsense of his 'essential services' claim as grounds for remaining open for the sale of gym-ware.
He is not alone among successful business tycoons in recent years to make a complete bollsup in his PR. In his case, perhaps, not quite such an incredibly counter-productive bollsup as TRFC made the other week with their PR appointment.
What is the character flaw in such people that is able to reduce their undoubted intellectual capacities to a moronic level?
Ashley has at least apologised (maybe choking with rage, maybe genuinely, who can tell?).
Jimbo I doubt anybody can accuse you of being too negative, as even "The Experts", are unsure of what lies ahead and are often contradictory, but the important thing is to find the positives.
In a sweepstake I would hope to draw Scotland, as the first country to come up with a vaccine or usable medicine….We will fight tooth and nail to retain our right to drink and smoke ourselves to death, and hell mend anything that stands in our way…….Nemo me impune Lacessit.
John Clark 27th March 2020 at 11:40 Ashley has apologised to the 'Government' and generously offered the use of his fleet of lorries to the NHS and other public services in the struggle against covid-19, after the nonsense of his 'essential services' claim as grounds for remaining open for the sale of gym-ware. He is not alone among successful business tycoons in recent years to make a complete bollsup in his PR. In his case, perhaps, not quite such an incredibly counter-productive bollsup as TRFC made the other week with their PR appointment. What is the character flaw in such people that is able to reduce their undoubted intellectual capacities to a moronic level? Ashley has at least apologised (maybe choking with rage, maybe genuinely, who can tell?).
_______________-
I think, in fact I am sure, that the answer to this question, and many others regarding the incredibly rich, is greed.
It appears that Aberdeen have been prudent in effecting insurance that included pandemic cover . Unfortunately their insurer seems to be pulling the plug on that. Perhaps somehow invoking force majeure?
Whilst not yet talking about wage cuts they are looking at things in depth and trying to plan accordingly. The need for early clarity from the football authorities is an issue they want to see addressed. They seem to think that UEFA can play a large part in that by declaring domestic leagues must end by a certain date and thus allow planning to take place over when next season might start.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52056108
Corrupt official 27th March 2020 at 11:43
…We will fight tooth and nail to retain our right to drink and smoke ourselves to death, and hell mend anything that stands in our way…
============
Absolutely, CO!
Smoking is just a filthy habit.
…but I do enjoy the occasional swally…
Got to have one vice.
https://twitter.com/rpmcomo/status/1243519430795157506?s=21
The Mitchell Plan. He makes reference to older demographics in his tweet. Who does he have in mind I wonder.
Redlichtie @ 12.16
My understanding (possibly wrong) is that AFC have business interruption cover including such events, (no doubt at a cost reflected in the premiums) but that their insurers are refusing to renew on the same conditions from the renewal date of 1st May 2020. Presumably this is within their right but Cormack’s argument is that the claim arose in March 2020 and should be met in full.
There is no conspiracy re COVID19, and this blog should not be the place to discuss such theories!
COVID19 does not meet the criteria as a HCID. However it will infect a large percentage of the population and a large percentage of those will die.
Right now in Scotland we are being told to stay at home to "flatten the curve", that is not to let the health services become overburdened and unable to cope. The lockdown is worth it.
bordersdon 27th March 2020 at 14:41
Redlichtie @ 12.16
My understanding (possibly wrong) is that AFC have business interruption cover including such events, (no doubt at a cost reflected in the premiums) but that their insurers are refusing to renew on the same conditions from the renewal date of 1st May 2020. Presumably this is within their right but Cormack’s argument is that the claim arose in March 2020 and should be met in full.
============================================
That's a more than plausible scenario Bordersdon. With such a known and continuing risk I suspect it just won't be possible for Aberdeen to effect similar cover for a new period with any insurer never mind their current one.
I'd have thought though that the insurer would be on the hook for any event that commenced in the current renewal period. Lawyers to the ready!
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Redlichtie
The insurance company response to AFC is what I would expect from an insurance company. If it was a new event it would be different but this will be a continuation. It is probably not fair to tar all with the same brush but given that the event has happened whilst insured it is incredibly disappointing when insurers try to wriggle out of responsibility in this way.
Gordon Waddell has been let go by the Sunday Mail.
https://twitter.com/GordonWaddell/status/1243571184211542021
Sad to report that after more than 25 years, I’m finished at the Sunday Mail. Nothing to do with the current crisis, just surplus to requirements apparently. Another nick towards death by 1000 cuts. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for reading. See you behind the goals…
Homunculus 27th March 2020 at 17:06
Gordon Waddell has been let go by the Sunday Mail.
………………..
Use to be my Sunday paper of choice, stopped buying it a good few years ago. Today you won’t get much change from a fiver if you buy it and a couple of morning rolls.
John Clark 27th March 2020 at 11:40
…………….
Won’t want thet new Frasers Group name tarnished before it gets off and running.
I noticed this morning our postie didn’t seem to have much mail to deliver.
I was thinking what it was like a generation ago when many benefits were paid by Giro. Or books, like family allowance, pensions etc. All payable at the Post Office. Remember the Qs? No payments into personal bank accounts.
Imagine trying to enforce stay at home!
Homunculus 27th March 2020 at 17:06
'..Gordon Waddell has been let go by the Sunday Mail.'
…………………….
Where did Waddell stand in relation to the truth about the death of RFC of 1872 and the creation of the new club TRFC?
Was he an about-turner like that ikon of journalistic truth, soon-to-be-exPR of TRFC/RIFC plc?
King has finally stepped down
https://twitter.com/AndyNewportPA/status/1243622419052613633
BREAKING: Douglas Park has been placed in interim charge of the Rangers board after Dave King confirmed he has stepped down as chairman.
More to follow
PFA Statement to players
easyjambo
rats and sinking ships eh
King’s statement from the Record (Can also be read as “The club is in financial trouble. So am I, therefore I’m off before the merde hits the fan”)
“At my final board meeting in Glasgow on March 14 the board was close to finalising a new round of funding however this has been put on hold while the board considers the financial consequences of the rapidly evolving global impact of coronavirus. The subsequent severe developments within the sporting and general business environment- that have now resulted in global lockdowns- has necessitated that the careful financial planning assumptions presented on March 14 are revisited. In that regard we are no different from other football clubs and, indeed, the largest and smallest companies worldwide are all affected to varying degrees.
“The club has formed a task team that comprises executive management and that reports regularly into the board of RIFC. The priority of the task team is to ensure the wellbeing and health of all employees while simultaneously working with our fellow clubs, associations, stakeholders and government to ensure that the emotional and financial impact of this pandemic is mitigated as far as possible. We presently have extremely limited visibility on how the landscape will develop in the coming months but we will continue to keep our supporters and other stakeholders updated as matters progress. We are all in this together.
“I thank all of my colleagues for the time and effort they continue to devote to our club – particularly when they are all dealing with their own family and business concerns arising from coronavirus. It is unfortunate that my stepping down has coincided with the coronavirus crisis but I am relieved that our club has such stalwarts in place to deal with whatever comes our way.
“I considered the possibility of extending my time as chairman until the coronavirus crisis is over but that is not practically possible. After I returned to South Africa last week from the board meeting, I was mandated by the South African authorities to go into self-isolation for 14 days- which I am presently undergoing. In addition, the South African government has ordered a three-week lockdown which commenced at midnight on Thursday 26 March. South Africa is at an early point in the coronavirus curve but is a particularly high-risk country due to the high levels of poverty and unemployment as well as the vast number of township dwellers who are unable to self-isolate.
“Additionally, the South African government does not have the financial resources to offer bailout facilities and it is up to us in the private sector to negotiate arrangements to best survive the months ahead. All of my businesses in South Africa are significantly impacted. Many local businesses have not paid their employees- or have reduced payments at the end of March. Many have also terminated the employment of large numbers of their workforce. I decided to pay all employees in full in order to reduce the financial hardship to them. I have also put together a task team that communicates on a daily basis to find ways to make arrangements with landlords, suppliers, creditors and other stakeholders to restructure our businesses for as long as is necessary (I estimate a minimum of six months) and, in doing so, prioritise the wellbeing of our employees and their families. This is a full-time task that leaves me no free time to make meaningful input to the Rangers task team – which, in any event, is dealing with a more structured and more benign local environment due to the ability of the UK government to offer meaningful financial support to distressed businesses and individuals.
“In closing, I thank all supporters, club management and the board for the magnificent support I received while guiding the Club post regime change to put that specific crisis behind the club. It is a great pity that we now find ourselves part of this global crisis. The Task Team will continue to navigate the club through this difficult time while reporting to the full board. The Deputy Chairman, Douglas Park, will chair the board during the interim period and a new permanent chairman will be elected by the board at the next board meeting and will be announced immediately thereafter.
“My warmest regards to all our supporters at this difficult personal time for many of you.
“Please follow the Government guidelines and stay safe.”
easyJambo 27th March 2020 at 19:48
King has finally stepped down
https://twitter.com/AndyNewportPA/status/1243622419052613633
BREAKING: Douglas Park has been placed in interim charge of the Rangers board after Dave King confirmed he has stepped down as chairman.
More to follow
———————————————————————-
Can't see anything on the Rangers* site yet. Nae interims yet either.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
"I considered the possibility of extending my time as chairman until the coronavirus crisis is over but that is not practically possible. After I returned to South Africa last week from the board meeting, I was mandated by the South African authorities to go into self-isolation for 14 days- which I am presently undergoing."
Yeah, because you need to be in Scotland to carry on the work you have been doing. Like you have been since taking over. Permanently in Scotland, attending all the games.
Couldn't you borrow the laptop from your mate again. Maybe do video conferencing, like everyone else is. There must be an "app" which would allow you to do that, I wouldn't know what app though.
He really does talk some amount of garbage, do people really believe anything he says.
King signs off with a suitably long winded statement.
And to summarise;
“It was Corona Virus’ fault I’ve had to step down.”
Park’s been volunteered as Chairman: bet he’s not exactly ecstatic about that ‘promotion’ – or its timing.
Can’t imagine anything is going to significantly change WRT shareholdings in the short term either – so King could still be pulling the strings from SA?
His warm smile will be missed by all…
"I'm skint, the club* is skint, there's no share issue happening, the investment squirrel is self isolating in Nagasaki ,my company is imploding but the UK Govt has promised to help so strong and stable here we come . Don't forget though that I drove down the share price ,organised a boycott and headed a coup that got rid of a board that was 6 months away from living within its means and was backed by a real billionaire . He conned me into a bad retail deal that cost the club* 3m to get out of and into an even worse retail deal , I tried to con him by doing a back door deal with another company that will cost the club* up to 10m not to mention all the dosh I wasted in countless other pointless courtroom battles winning heehaw and then spent 7m on the donkey Ryan Kent . So thanks for the laughs and the free 1st class air fares so I could watch my favourite team Liverpool FC.
PS – I suggest the statue that should be erected in my honour should be made of brass to match my neck
Laters Dave
I'm just waiting for the EBT pundits to get ripped into the TRFC mismanagement as they did with Hearts.
By the way, Ann Budge doesn't get a free pass for her statement yesterday. She has overseen the club fall from 3rd in the Premeirship in 2016, to 5th, 6th, 6th and now 12th without the Covid-19 outbreak. That is an executive failure of significant proportion, when your core business preforms worse year on year.
easyJambo 27th March 2020 at 20:03
I notice there is no mention of his 'investment' in the club, whether he intends to sell his shares, continue as a shareholder in his beloved club or donate them to Club 1874. Nor does he mention his intentions regarding his loan, which, I'd imagine, is of more pressing concern to the board, and more sentient supporters, than his worries about his own employees in South Africa. While I do hope his stated concerns for his SA employees are genuine, I'd suggest clarity on what he intends to do with his shares and his loan to the club are of more concern to the supporters, being more germane to the future of the club, than the plight of those unfortunate souls. Still, he did get across that the reason for his departing was purely down to the Coronavirus while completely avoiding the upcoming sh*tstorm that he has brought to the club.
While it may well be that his clearing out is to pave the way for this £20m investment, the statement reads more like the note left on hanging on the door in a beautifully sad song by Glenn Campbell…'By the Time I Get to Phoenix', or maybe just Johannesburg
By The Time I Get to Phoenix
By Glenn Campbell and Jimmy Webb
By the time I get to Phoenix she'll be rising
She'll find the note I left hangin' on her door
She'll laugh when she reads the part that says I'm leavin'
'Cause I've left that girl so many times before
By the time I make Albuquerque she'll be working
She'll probably stop at lunch and give me a call
But she'll just hear that phone keep on ringin'
Off the wall, that's all.
By the time I make Oklahoma she'll be sleepin'
She'll turn softly and call my name out low
And she'll cry just to think I'd really leave her
Tho' time and time I've tried to tell her so
She just didn't know I would really go
Just thought, 'By the Time I Get To Phoenix'…did the Phoenix rise twice from the ashes, or only the once?
…and it was a statement released late on a Friday evening too.
Will be interesting to see how the SMSM 'journalists' react to King's departure over the next few days.
He was a charlatan, full of empty promises, an embarrassing pariah in the city, a permanent fixture in the civil courts, left the club in deep doo doo, etc…
(i.e. he's definitely gone.)
Or,
King was a visionary, who put his wealth on the line to save 'Rangers' from Ashley, has been bravely fighting Ashley and other 'Rangers' haters in the courts and in the city, has left Ibrox in a strong position to challenge CFC, etc..
(i.e. King's still in control.)
IMO, whether he wants it or not: King's presence will still linger over Ibrox – like a bad smell – for some time to come.
“At my final board meeting in Glasgow on March 14 the board was close to finalising a new round of funding however this has been put on hold while the board considers the financial consequences of the rapidly evolving global impact of coronavirus. The subsequent severe developments within the sporting and general business environment- that have now resulted in global lockdowns- has necessitated that the careful financial planning assumptions presented on March 14 are revisited.
……………..
A club that rapidly needed fresh investment has now put it on hold as the board considers the financial consequences of the rapidly evolving global impact of coronavirus.
The impact of the coronavirus has ment no football at ibrox so no income, a new round of funding would be priority at this time would it not. Unless there was no new funding in the first place.
@AJ – his shares are worthless and in this current situation unsellable , the Japan based investor has already backtracked on the investment talk , the share issue is on hold but the wages are still due to be paid at the end of the month. King however remains the largest shareholder and his cold shoulder will continue to taint the business and any possible investment or even loans being made outside the board room . To keep this show on the road will cost tens of millions and only a cash rich but very stupid individual will do that . What is gained by paying out 4m in wages for March ,then again in April and May , then Ashley, Close ……… we know this list is monumental and more importantly King knows it as well . He has put Park into the gunsight and done a runner , statement O' clock cannot be far away.
I suppose Dave's departure might just lead to another plea by the board to Ashley to 'go easy on us' but what might have worked a few months ago will be falling on the ears of a man with so much more to worry about than the plight of a troublesome football club as he sees his shares crash while appearing to be so panicked that he's made a ridiculous decision that had to be changed under public and government pressure within hours of announcing it. Not the actions of a man likely to look kindly on a business that has become an enemy. Whatever the quantum of the eventual settlement I'd expect that it will take on a greater significance to SDI's income than it would previously.
“I considered the possibility of extending my time as chairman until the coronavirus crisis is over but that is not practically possible.
……………..
Cold shoulder tends to do that also.
Timtim 27th March 2020 at 21:31
Totally agree, Timtim, and what you write is why he didn't even skirt around the issues, but I'm sure the supporters would like to hear comforting words about those very same issues, though I suppose 'comforting lies' would be more accurate.
It's a rather long statement full of unnecessary information with, I'd suggest, the sole intention of deflecting the bears from the reality of the situation and the true reason he is fleeing Ibrox now.
Allyjambo 27th March 2020 at 21:09
————————————————————-
On Notes left behind, I think Liam Byrne's 'There is no money left' is fairly apposite.
Some headlines, possibly;
New Chairman demands a new Park at Ibrox.
King busses Park into the hot seat.
Park reins in King.
More Ibrox Park King problems.
Park stops King crashing the bus at Ibrox.
A stroll in the Park for new Chairman.
Park is f’King raging!
Park to close gates.
Ibrox needs a new pitch, not a Park!
Park heads to Parkhead defeats.
King Parks his losses at Ibrox.
etc…
(Got cabin fever already.
)
What do Dave King, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump have in common?
Mendacity.
They have made careers from it. Yet before we scold the scorpions for their very nature, remember we are the foxes who allowed them and their supporters to hitch a ride over the torrent of life.
No more lies please, no more lifts.
Official RIFC statement
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-92/
RANGERS Football Club is delighted to announce that Douglas Park has been appointed as Interim Chairman of Rangers International Football Club PLC.
Furthermore, we can confirm the appointment of John Bennett as Deputy Chairman of RIFC.
Douglas Park has decades of experience as a successful businessman which is invaluable to Rangers, as we continue to work towards our 150th anniversary. We are indebted to Douglas’ financial backing and support with fans fondly recalling his part in the “Three Bears” takeover of 2015.
John Bennett joined the RIFC board in March 2015 as part of the regime change when he invested substantial funds in Rangers. His consistent investment in the club is set to continue, with further funding in the coming months.
Mr Bennett has over three decades of experience in investment management with a specialism in European companies.
RIFC is pleased to confirm that the funding plan announced at the recent AGM is well advanced, with significant investment already received and further commitments in place.
The elevation of Douglas Park and John Bennett is another significant step forward for Rangers FC and is a sign of intent by the club.
Mr Park highlighted, “It is a privilege to take on this position at the world’s most successful football club. We have experienced some difficult days but have emerged stronger than before.
“On behalf of the Board of Directors, I welcome the continued enthusiasm towards contributing to the future success of the company and club. We will make further public comment in due course.”
Furthermore, Deputy Chairman, John Bennett commented on the outgoing Chairman, “I want to place on record our sincere thanks to Dave King for the important contribution he made as Chairman of Rangers FC.”
In closing, Mr Park highlighted the current health crisis throughout the world, “I know what an institution Rangers is and what it means to our loyal fans. However, football is secondary at the moment. It is vital that we follow the advice of the government and medical experts to beat this virus.
“Please look after yourself and your loved ones. Thank you to the medical staff, and all key workers who are working tirelessly across the United Kingdom.”
"…with significant investment already received…"
Eh?
StevieBC – how about: 'SuperScallyClaimsLogisticsButHisLiesAtrocious'?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
StevieBC 27th March 2020 at 23:06
“…with significant investment already received…”
Eh?
=============================
The “recent” AGM was 4 months ago. The funding announced then was a £5m loan facility to be provided by King which had already been drawn down according to the TRFC accounts, which were published later than the RIFC accounts.
The capital contribution was largely a Debt for Equity swap.
Ann Budge is again annoyed by inaccurate reporting in the media about what the club intends to do about player contracts.
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-update-1
easyJambo 27th March 2020 at 23:16
While not wishing to downplay the seriousness of the situation at Hearts (well, we know it's serious because Hearts have let us know it is, as it will be at almost every other club in the country/Europe/The World), it's almost as though the press have been ordered (not that they are in the habit of accepting such orders) to use Hearts as a deflection from something, perhaps, that's a rather more serious situation at another club!
Quite an astonishing statement from Park , I can only assume they will continue to fund this monstrosity in the short term and meet the March wage bill as to place them in administration days after stating they have funds already received with more committed would be a tad shameful . I wonder if Dave will now demand his 5m back (with interest)
King has realised that the coronavirus situation will require a lot more money to be poured into the business, so he's out and quick; in a single bound he is free.
The statement is from a hubristic individual to himself. He has failed, and that needs to be reconciled to his view of self. He cannot resist addressing the real issue in the first three paragraphs, but in such a way that attention is drawn away from his own retreat, and suggesting there was nothing he could do to help, it was all beyond his control. Any difficulties were not his fault, it was the coronavirus. By the end of the 3rd. paragraph he is gone, and he spends the next two paragraphs on a self-congratulatory discourse on his generosity, to reinforce his ego and self perception, and to sidetrack the narrative away from his vulnerabilities. By the last paragraphs it's a faux sincere valedictory. Job done, I'm off.
I hope the paragraphs on South Africa find there way to his employees there, just to be sure they are accurate.
Allyjambo 27th March 2020 at 23:51
While not wishing to downplay the seriousness of the situation at Hearts (well, we know it's serious because Hearts have let us know it is, as it will be at almost every other club in the country/Europe/The World), it's almost as though the press have been ordered (not that they are in the habit of accepting such orders) to use Hearts as a deflection from something, perhaps, that's a rather more serious situation at another club!
=====================
It could be (and probably is) an open secret among the Scottish Media that Rangers finances are in a very poor state. However, history tells us they will only write or talk about it if Rangers themselves bring it up, or an external body such as HMRC turns the screw. Until that point the portrayal will be of Rangers as a grand institution who always do the right thing with mega rich people behind them of the highest integrity.
Anne Budge must be very frustrated at what has come her way after being so honest. Hopefully she will now see what every other club is up against with the media, if she hasn't already.
As my fellow Jambos have discussed, Ms Budge is not free from criticism with regards to the running of Heart of Midlothian. However it does seem like some in the press don't like it when she takes a pop at them.
Allan Pattulo in the Scotsman seems to be a bit aggrieved this morning
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/ann-budge-has-realise-not-all-criticism-hearts-misinformation-and-malicious-speculation-2521285
His words would be taken more seriously if he and his colleagues in the SMSM were as equally probing and objective in relation to the stream of pish emanating from Ibrox.
King leaves Govan with hardly a murmur on his record regards poor choices of managers, money wasted on certain signings, no major income for player sales, no trophies, continual court battles (normally losing ones), poor PR etc etc.
Now I know where UTH gets his paranoia from
macfurgly 28th March 2020 at 01:53
''…..He has failed, and that needs to be reconciled to his view of self. ……By the end of the 3rd. paragraph he is gone, and he spends the next two paragraphs on a self-congratulatory discourse on his generosity, to reinforce his ego and self perception, and to sidetrack the narrative away from his vulnerabilities. By the last paragraphs it's a faux sincere valedictory. Job done, I'm off.."
++++++++
A super analysis, macfurgly!
And one can have little respect for the other members of the Board for allowing such a self-paean of a statement to appear that bears no relation to the fact that King has done nearly as much damage to the new TRFC as SDM &CW together did to the liquidated RFC of 1872.
As for Park's ludicrous, misleading, whistling-in-the dark nonsense of a 'statement', what can be said of the likely usefulness of such a dumb-ass of an interim chairman of anything? The man is clearly no more than a rabbit caught in the headlights , without an original thought of his own, condemned to repeating the same PR mistakes that RIFC plc has been guilty of during their first 7 years of existence.
Obviously, before Rangers' death, there were many statements and words from club directors and managers reported by the media, and it may be my own poor memory to blame, but I can't think that the phrase 'the world's most successful football club' was used at all, let alone at almost every opportunity. Now we here all know why they do that, repeat what is actually an untruth (but 'world's second most successful club' doesn't have the same ring to it), but they really do overplay it to a sickening, and rather sad, level.
Park's use of it at this time is indicative to me of a paucity of positives to share with supporters of TRFC which matched the paucity of positives he had to say about Dave King's contribution to the club and the legacy he leaves.
I also think it worth noting that he didn't say anything along the lines of 'Dave King has left the club in a better state than it was when he arrived'. That would probably have been a lie too far, though it may come in a later communique.
sevco will go the way of RFC1872 before the end of this year, news flash ends lol
I would think Mr Park has been handed a poisoned chalice. His car dealerships have closed down except for emergency repairs to key workers vehicles. While I don't think he will be in any real personal financial difficulties he certainly won't be in a position to gift monies or buy any more useless shares.
As a "True Blue" he won't want to be the one who pulls the plug this time. What will he do with this honour that has been bestowed upon him?
Dave King made the royal proclamation that he was standing down as RIFC PLC chairman at the AGM, 26/11/2019
He announced the new interim chairman on 27/03/2020.
Why, after 4 months is he announcing an interim chairman.
Surely it is possible to find someone to fill his massive brown brogues in 4 months.
SFA disciplinary rule 19 which states: “Except with the prior written consent of the Board: (a) no club or nominee of a club; and (b) no person, whether absolutely or as a trustee, either alone or in conjunction with one or more associates or solely through an associate or associates (even where such person has no formal interest), who: (i) is a member of a club; or (ii) is involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management or administration of a club, or (iii) has any power whatsoever to influence the management or administration or a club, may at the same time either directly or indirectly:- (a) be a member of another club; or (b) be involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management or administration of another club; or (c) have any power whatsoever to influence the management or administration of another club.”
……………
Does park not now have Dual interest?
Homunculus 28th March 2020 at 11:20
Surely it is possible to find someone to fill his massive brown brogues in 4 months.
____________________
I can think of 3 possible reasons, Homunculus.
1. That £20m is genuinely waiting in the wings, or is believed to be waiting in the wings, along with a new chairman.
2. No one wants to be permanent chairman and the word 'interim' is viewed as gifting a less poisoned chalice.
3. They want to create the illusion that the £20m is waiting in the wings along with a new (mega rich) chairman.
I'd suggest 2 & 3 are most likely, both individually and jointly, while number 1 remains a possibility that recedes with each passing day.
We all know how important PR is to Sevco, but while most clubs are quietly helping out in the current crisis where they can, the best Sevco could come up with was a couple of bottles of "Product placement" sanitiser, (the new investment?), and a useless free go of a carpark in the middle of nowhere.
I'd say a fair reflection on their current finances.
No games means no clean money to mix wi' the muck.
Clubs face an existential threat unrelated to a visiting fan-base and funny coloured quid.
There will be no cheering from the null & void dog-whistlers. Celtic will be 9IAR champs
Social unrest is no danger at all, to a country in lockdown.
I’m off to work now but if anyone is stuck at home needing to keep busy then the filing history on Parks of Hamilton at Companies House looks very interesting. To my amateur eye it looks like the banks have everything Park owns under lock and key as security , 18 separate registrations of charge have been filed this month
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC066568/filing-history
Before the impact of Corona Virus, King’s shareholding was a blocker to the possibility of even a sniff of any new / external funds.
This scenario existed at the AGM and it still exists today, IMO, and regardless of any bullish statements coming from Ibrox.
Again, it would seem that if the Blue Room wants to keep RIFC/TRFC operating, then any purchase of King’s stake has to be self-generated from the Directors and/or bears, (Club1872).
Can’t imagine there is any scope for diluting down King’s percentage shareholding either.
So, in a cash strapped environment, they could have been creative and e.g. offer to buyout King with a proposed payment plan stretching over a number of years? (Mibbees they tried?)
IMO, Ibrox is stuck with King as the largest shareholder for the duration – or until there is an insolvency event.
Edit.
Of course, to cement his ‘legacy’ amongst the bears, he could make a magnificent gesture and gift his shares to Club1872.
StevieBC 28th March 2020 at 12:58
'Bullish' statement you say, Stevie. I think I could honestly say the same about my own investment in Hearts (which continues through Foundation of Hearts) as is said of Bennett where I've highlighted, and the second paragraph I've copied over could be said of all the members of FOH and, I'm sure, some other clubs' supporters who find ways of helping their clubs out financially. 'Consistent' and 'further funding' don't exactly mean considerable.
'John Bennett joined the RIFC board in March 2015 as part of the regime change when he invested substantial funds in Rangers. His consistent investment in the club is set to continue, with further funding in the coming months.
……..
RIFC is pleased to confirm that the funding plan announced at the recent AGM is well advanced, with significant investment already received and further commitments in place.'
Bullish statements are one thing, but they need to be a bit more positive than that if they are meant to impress/console those who know to expect bullishness from company boardrooms when times are tough.
Remember, too, that these highlighted parts are the most 'bullish', indeed only positive, takeaways from two quite lengthy statements on the current situation at Ibrox, and although both these statements suggest further funding is coming in the coming months and investment commitments are in place, the word 'significant' is missing, unlike when mentioning what they've already had (and probably/undoubtedly spent) '…significant investment already received…'!
wottpi 28th March 2020 at 09:03
Now I know where UTH gets his paranoia from
===============
You may view it as paranoia, and I have no issue with that. To me there is a very real, ingrained bias within the SMSM towards Rangers. Whether that is through bias or fear I have no idea, but in my view it clearly exists.
‘Homunculus 28th March 2020 at 11:20
Surely it is possible to find someone to fill his massive brown brogues in 4 months.
____________________
Allyjambo 28th March 2020 at 11:39
I can think of 3 possible reasons, Homunculus…’
##########################
DCK & RIFC has always been about his ego.
I’m sure his preference would have been for a ‘double-dunt’ statement, announcing both the fabled £20m of ‘new investment’ & his immediate retirement as Group Chairman ‘having secured the future well-being of the club/company’ with said injection of funds. Hurrahs & (bowler) hats thrown in the air as the Berrs sing, ‘Freeze a jolly good fella!’.
That investment is not going to happen in the short-term, when it’s most-needed.
DCK has failed in his plan for RIFC.
I don’t know whether his ego allowed him to recognise that he had done so & that the correct way to go was by resigning or whether there’s been a boardroom coup to ‘Warburton’ him.
One thing’s for sure: his tenure hasn’t improved the RIFC group position one jot.
Tom English thinks King has been brilliant for the club. At least Michael Stewart mentioned they were at near break even before the takeover.
StevieBC@22.39
Does mean that Murray/Hummel Park will now be called Park Park?
Listening , with some incredulity, to the gombeen man praising the ex-chairman, with Michael Stewart following suit.
Richard Gordon asking where the £10 million is to come from and what the new guys might be able to do.It'll be a'punt ' from the heart for Park and Bennet says McCann.
'Billy' says Park has clout and he has money, so for him to stand up to the plate again is a real message to the fans.And so on.
Mixture as before, no matter what incompetents have been on the Ibrox booard.
Ballyargus 28th March 2020 at 11:05
I would think Mr Park has been handed a poisoned chalice…
=====
Or, Park's been handed a grenade from King… and who had already removed the pin before fleeing to SA.
Whilst I have zero sympathy for Park – I certainly would not want to be in his shoes right now.
His time should be focused on his main business which is in crisis – but he's just been coerced (?) into taking on the Chairmanship of a much higher profile business which is itself teetering on the edge.
And you just know, he's in a thankless, no win situation at Ibrox – whatever he does.
Ex Ludo 28th March 2020 at 14:20
StevieBC@22.39 Does mean that Murray/Hummel Park will now be called Park Park?
=====
We have a winner!
Prize is an XL bottle of sanitiser… but unfortunately it can't be sent due to lockdown.
And mibbees to indicate the player quality or spending power of any future Ibrox club/company, the training centre could have a more descriptive title;
"Park Park the Bus."
Stevie BC @ 1428hrs:
I'm reminded that (the-then) David Murray was quoted as saying that he was advised when he took over RFC in 1988 that it would be 10% of his business portfolio, but would command/demand 90% of his time.
upthehoops 28th March 2020 at 13:55
Pulling your leg pal.
IMHO sometimes you go over the top given the success your club has enjoyed since its formation, but I'm with you on the general thrust of your thinking.
Switched off Sportsound. That lot are in a different world.
I generally don’t mid listening to Michael Stewart on Sportsound, but today he is having difficulty understanding that Hearts 50% wage cut proposal is not across the board and involves non playing staff too.
e.g. A 16/17 year old full time youth player on £300 a week will not have to take any cut.
An adult member of office staff earning £24k per annum will go down to the Living wage figure of just over £18k, a cut of no more than 25% (if they continue working). If they are furloughed, then the government will pay 80% of their wages, so over £19k.
It is only when your earnings are over £36k (£700 a week) would you potentially be hit with the full 50% cut. Again, if players contracts could be suspended and affected players were furloughed then the government’s scheme might offer a better return.
Back in Aug 2015 Douglas Park had this to say.
DOUGLAS PARK has stepped down from the Rangers board and will be replaced by his son Graeme.
Bus tycoon Park was invited to join Dave King’s new-look board just hours after they swept to power back in March.
But Park, one of the Three Bears consortium alongside George Letham and George Taylor, feels he can no longer work at Ibrox due to other commitments.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/douglas-park-steps-down-rangers-6189505
…………….
Must have time on his hands. Can’t put my finger on it but i’m sure i have read somewhere that another RIFC director quit the board due to other commitments;-)
Remember also that park was also one of the concert party.
He returned in 12 APR 2018
I believe the government has extended by six months all accounting dates which will surely be a godsend to TRFC .I do wonder how this will effect the qualifying criteria for competing in Europe. Will last years numbers be used?
gunnerb 28th March 2020 at 17:20
Are clubs not supposed to supply their interim results by March or April of the year the tournament is to start, in order to demonstrate they satisfy the financial criteria.
Director personal liability laws suspended.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-28/coronavirus-business-help-insolvency-alok-sharma/
Corrupt official 28th March 2020 at 18:18
'.. Director personal liability laws suspended.'
+++++++++++++++++
As if the Insolvency laws were not already favourable to incompetent and/or devious company directors!
When was the last prosecution of a director for fraudulent trading?
Quite a few GASH quotes of recent times 'doing the rounds' right now.
Among my favourites are:-
"They'll never get to ten in a row, never get to ten. They won't even get close"
"I think there is more chance of Rangers winning ten in a row than Celtic winning ten in a row"
and I was just thinking…
"all the KING's horses and all the KING's men couldn't put Humpty (Sevco) together again"
Corrupt official 28th March 2020 at 18:18
Director personal liability laws suspended.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-28/coronavirus-business-help-insolvency-alok-sharma/
—————————————————————————–
A lifeline for the Rangers* directors. Rather than be held accountable for their failings over many years they can now try to muddle on with impunity and eventually blame COVID-19/Mike Ashley, etc when the Grim Reaper finally calls.
As of tonight the only interim published is their Interim Chairman.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Isn’t it wonderful that an expatriate Scots businessman has let us know that, unlike ( as he himself tells us!) many of his SA counterparts, he will pay full wages to his employees at the end of this month!
My heart swells with pride!
So much so, that I messaged the ‘Gauteng Star’, sending them a copy of King’s statement.
It would not be right that such a noble example of public-spirited action should go unremarked in SA business circles at this time, and in an accompanying note, I expressed the hope that the paper would take pleasure in knowing of such a splendid gesture from a chap who was once described by a Court as being a ‘glib and shameless liar’.
I was trying to think of a valid reason for not calling an admin at this time as to do so would confirm Celtic as champions after the obligatory 15 pt reduction . By delaying it by 1 month they would have a better argument that Covid 19 was the cause rather than gross mismanagement and with agreement from the sfa that 15 pt penalty for next season may be waived as an exceptional circumstance . I have no doubt that much discussion has taken place between the 6th floor of Hampden and what's left of the blue room . One thing that the sfa cannot do is pay their bills and that's where it all falls apart for them .
I also hear that the MSM was lining up to shower praise on King , have they no shame ? are they really as gullible as the fan base as to how he operated over the last 5 years? If any are looking in let me remind them that his business practices led to him being given the "cold shoulder" by the City , that he is a convicted criminal on 41 counts , that before the coup he was actively destabilising the club* and driving down the share price , that his first action was to buy more shares than was allowed without triggering an offer despite warnings from others . How much was spent on unnecessary court battles , his disastrous retail deal that cost the club* 3m to jump from the frying pan into the fire then the backdoor Elite deal and the contract with Hummel ending 12 months early and litigation from that in the wings. Then there's the Memorial Walls case and 1.3m wasted on a torn up contract . Giving Morelos, Gerrard , Davis and Defoe extended and improved contracts is an act of folly outdone only by the knee jerk signing of Ryan Kent for 7m . David Cunningham King took a sustainable business with Billionaire backing to the brink of collapse then disappeared into the night without a second thought. This is an individual who was also on the Board of the previous club* who happily turned a blind eye to the tax scandals that surrounded it and voted against a cva that may have preserved its history . To refer to him as a "glib and shameless liar" doesn't describe the half of this charlatan . There was a reason he couldn't be passed as fit and proper to run a football club by the SFA and it is now biting them on the backside that they allowed him to operate the holding company that operated the football club instead .
Timtim 28th March 2020 at 20:22
With the following being the only words the RIFC/TRFC board could muster to acknowledge King's departure (they may come up with something more effusive at a later date but usually an outgoing chairman, or ordinary director, receives something more complementary, regardless of his/her record, in the initial announcement, it is, after all, only mannerly) I suspect the SMSM may have got the message to rein in any nonsense they might wish to print.
"Furthermore, Deputy Chairman, John Bennett commented on the outgoing Chairman, “I want to place on record our sincere thanks to Dave King for the important contribution he made as Chairman of Rangers FC.”"
'Important', not great, marvellous, amazing…just important. I'm sure that orange bigot that carries the kit makes an 'important' contribution every time he puts the mucky kit into the laundry bags after each match. Again, not great, marvellous, amazing…
Phil – "A Difficult Summer Ahead For Sevco"
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/03/28/a-difficult-summer-ahead-for-sevco/#more-16155
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Timtim 28th March 2020 at 20:22
'… One thing that the sfa cannot do is pay their bills and that's where it all falls apart for them .'
+++++++++++++
Of course, Timtim, the refusal by the SFA to have the 'Res 12' matter fully and openly investigated leaves us free to suspect that the SFA would, if they could conceivably could, slide monies on any pretext or none, in the direction of Ibrox!
(That's the damage that the SFA on itself a decade ago-refusal to have what was done a decade ago subjected to legitimate scrutiny. What's there to hide, if all was above board? );
and to suspect that if they can't find a way to subvent TRFC in cash, they will try to find any way to accommodate them in the present covid-19 chaos.
Collectively, if the Internet Bampots have a conscience we should organise Crowdfunding for the bete noire of Scottish football.
Without the Ibrox entertainment what would we do?
Every day is Karma for the club pretending to be a dead, corrupt football club, as it inches ever closer to its own death.
And its presence is a daily reminder that Scottish football is governed by corrupt governing bodies – and supported implicitly / explicitly by ALL the other, 41 senior clubs.
…and at a time of crisis to help focus your priorities, it does make you wonder why any consumer would buy into this continuing BS…
https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1243948282314973184?s=21
Impressive act.
Remember and put your clocks forward an hour. It’s summer time.
So who is telling the truth? Investments plans are ‘on hold’ – Dave King, or the contradiction by the board shortly afterwards, that investment plans are ‘well advanced’?
jimbo 29th March 2020 at 09:10
So who is telling the truth? Investments plans are on hold – Dave King, or the contradiction by the board shortly afterwards, that investment plans are well advanced?
______________________
Both could be correct, Jimbo. The investment plans made at the time of the last AGM may well be advanced to the point of being put on hold.
One thing to be taken into consideration, though, is that while it's in the interest of the remaining board members to gild the lily, King has nothing to gain by making things sound worse than they actually are. In fact, it's so very unlike King to not gild his own lily by claiming some dubious achievement. It's notable, too, that the club statement does not, in any way, refute what the departing (holding company) chairman said.
Fair enough AJ, although I never thought I would read you posting that DK & the Ibrox board could both be 'correct'!
A wee thought.
Neither statement wished the other party future success, and I'd have thought the first statement from RIFC/TRFC should have been to announce the outgoing chairman's departure rather than to just mention it in the passing. After all, the chairman would have to resign/retire first before being replaced and it would be good manners, if nothing else, to 'regretfully' announce his departure before trumpeting his replacement.
Suggests one of two scenarios to me, the new PR man is woefully out of his depth, or there is bad blood between the two parties. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if both scenarios were correct.
jimbo 29th March 2020 at 09:48
Fair enough AJ, although I never thought I would read you posting that DK & the Ibrox board could both be 'correct'!
_______
Thanks for pointing that out
, Jimbo, but in my defence, I was being more than a little sarcastic when suggesting both could be correct 
and I'd suggest that, for possibly the first time, King was being fairly honest with the bears, while, not for the first time, a TRFC/RIFC statement was, at best, gilding the lily.
I vaguely remember once DK spoke with some honesty when he acknowledged the old club were in the liquidation process and that he would like to have bought them out of that (by paying off the debts?). Or maybe I mis read it!
jimbo 29th March 2020 at 09:10
To be fair plans can be both "well advanced" and "on hold" at the same time.
jimbo 29th March 2020 at 10:09
“I vaguely remember once DK spoke with some honesty when he acknowledged the old club were in the liquidation process and that he would like to have bought them out of that (by paying off the debts?). Or maybe I mis read it! ”
You have heaped coals of fire on my head, jimbo!
Before I got diverted by posting about the ‘statement’ I had been about to respond to another post, and I was about to mention that King had one plus point to his credit-that he acknowledged that the restoration of RFC of 1872 was entirely possible, if someone could pay all its debts etc and thus bring it out out of Liquidation.
I think he must then have realised what a problem that would cause because ,of course, RIFC plc does not own RFC of 1872, which , via the Liquidators, would return to whoever owned it when it went into Administration!
A whole.dirty, feckin mess created originally by the deceit by SDM, compounded by the little turd, and aggravated by a succession of greedy individuals trying to make money from an untruth.
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 10:18
jimbo 29th March 2020 at 09:10
To be fair plans can be both "well advanced" and "on hold" at the same time.
____________________
Yup, in the same way, I could have a long conversation with my bank manager over a loan I need, letting him know how much I need, what I intend to spend it on etc, at which point it could be said the talks are well advanced, then the bank manager asks for evidence that I will be able to repay the loan. Talks are then put on hold. Indefinitely! In the meantime I'm a little taken aback because the bank have stated previously that they support businesses like mine which leaves me confused over why they should ask to see my accounts, my cash flow projections and my business plan. Surely true supporters don't require such things before throwing their money at…sorry, investing their money in, a business they support. So basically my funding plans have advanced to the point where my bank manager isn't as blinded by his support as I thought he would be!
Allyjambo 29th March 2020 at 12:27
What is your credit rating and do you have anything you can secure the loan against, unencumbered of course. Oh and what do you want the loan for.
If you are a cash only operator, with little security to use, and you want the loan for normal operating costs as opposed to developing your business you are onto plums mate.
I caved in and put Sportsound on at noon. That’s how desperate I am to hear something about Scottish football!
Anyhow, I have heard quite a few opinions on Dave King the past 2 days. They try not to be gushing in praise to be honest, but it’s mostly good. Mainly questioned on the likes of Warburton & Pedro appointments. Has done much much better than Green, the Easdales, Ashley etc. Timing of departure.
One thing that no one has mentioned. He is cold shouldered! Is that of no importance? Or did I just imagine that?
Nor his dodgy history in SA. They are still spending more than their income. Anyone with half a brain would say good riddance!
jimbo 29th March 2020 at 13:43
The ongoing litigation with SDI and the Memorial Wall people is probably also worth a mention. As are the huge amounts of money they have had to pay in costs.
As is him asking supporters not to buy season tickets, Disrupting the PLCs activities and allowing his concert party to take a controlling share.
Did they also mention that he now holds just over 25% of the shares himself. Meaning that the PLC cannot pass a special resolution without his agreement. So he still has a lot of control there.
A convicted fraudster, who has lied giving evidence, and seems not to be able to do straightforward business with anyone. Just what football needs.
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 13:24
Allyjambo 29th March 2020 at 12:27
What is your credit rating and do you have anything you can secure the loan against, unencumbered of course. Oh and what do you want the loan for. If you are a cash only operator, with little security to use, and you want the loan for normal operating costs as opposed to developing your business you are onto plums mate.
___________
You're my bloody bank manager, aren't you! How else would you know all these details? No chance of me ever buying you a pint down the Ludge again. How am I meant to keep my business going? Everyone loves RTFC Ltd, the Root Toot Flute Company Limited, that is. It's not my fault I bought a whole load of duff flutes with other peoples' money. Well the social disorder will be on your head when those lovely lads can't go marching this summer, but I suppose I could just blame this virus that's got everyone's knickers in a twist (read that somewhere). Still, I could always try that pre-pack wheeze you told me about, and if it works I'll buy you a pint after all.
What's that? Stick my flute where?
Exactly Homunculus. There should be street parties on this announcement. However we have this lockdown!
'jimbo 29th March 2020 at 13:43
…One thing that no one has mentioned. He is cold shouldered! Is that of no importance? Or did I just imagine that?'
####################
DCK stated, with some hubris, that being cold-shouldered as an individual was of little importance.
The then Group Chairman (who holds approx. 25% of the issued shares) of RIFC explained further that, as he conducted no business in the UK, it wouldn't affect him materially. He was allowed to skate on that one by everybody; from the SFA to the SMSM.
I do wonder if certain high-net-worth (HNW) individuals, who may have the odd 8-digit sum to 'invest', lay more store in DCK's cold-shouldering than he himself does?
We have just observed a previously unknown ‘investor’ – a Stuart Gibson based in Japan – do walking away, after helpfully raising his business profile exponentially for hee haw…
Today, we have Jim McColl all over the SMSM, quoted making strange/positive comments about TRFC.
It’s known that the ‘ex-billionaire / ex-multimillionaire’ had his own financial challenges even before the Corona crisis.
Is McColl just trying to get some free PR?
Or, is the latest Ibrox ‘PR expert’ trying to hoodwink the bears by circulating copy/paste content that the ‘billionaire sugar daddy’ has finally been confirmed?
Just before I went up the road to ASDA at my 'click and collect' appointed time , I heard Chick say in reference to the difficulties getting football interviews and such, " Oh for the days when journalists could go to a club and speak to people and ask questions, and report the facts!"
I don't think Chick does irony!
I also heard the underlying querulously fearful tone in MacIntyr'es irritatingly aggressive voice when asking if there was (in Tom English's view) a possibility that the season could be ended short, with title being awarded to the club on highest points!
StevieBC 29th March 2020 at 14:14
Today, we have Jim McColl all over the SMSM, quoted making strange/positive comments about TRFC.
…………………….
Yesterday it was Souness. We are back in 2012 territory again, comfort blankets all round, things must be bad down ibrox way. If we get a Walter or anything from past ibrox (Legends)tomorrow they are in deep deep trouble.
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 13:51 jimbo 29th March 2020 at 13:43
The ongoing litigation with SDI and the Memorial Wall people is probably also worth a mention. As are the huge amounts of money they have had to pay in costs. As is him asking supporters not to buy season tickets, Disrupting the PLCs activities and allowing his concert party to take a controlling share. Did they also mention that he now holds just over 25% of the shares himself. Meaning that the PLC cannot pass a special resolution without his agreement. So he still has a lot of control there. A convicted fraudster, who has lied giving evidence, and seems not to be able to do straightforward business with anyone. Just what football needs.
______________________-
And they owe him £5m for his loan. And a man who has given up the chairmanship of a company to take care of his collapsing empire in another country is most likely to be wanting that loan repaid at the earliest opportunity as well as expecting to be paid as much as he can get for his 25%+ shareholding.
And still they couldn't find anything nice to say about him as he left Ibrox for the last time. Maybe they already realised that there was little point in soft soaping him as he's made his intentions for his shareholding and loan clear. Maybe, of course, that is, for I/we don't know how thing stand between King and the remaining directors so it's just guesswork. But wouldn't you think that if King departed having assured them that he will do everything to help the club survive that they'd have been full of praise for him in their statement? I know I would have in such circumstances.
Two statements; one from the club saying thank you to the departing chairman in the coolest possible way with the other from the departing chairman letting supporters know he's got his own money problems ahead. I do wonder if there's anything in the terms of the King loan that we don't know about?
Oops, just came to me, King certainly won't be doing a debt for equity swop for his loan, whenever it's due for repayment – or rolling it over!
Allyjambo 29th March 2020 at 14:55
Or …
Laird Investments promised to make good anything they couldn't raise towards the predicted £10m shortfall. I think it's in the accounts.
And …
He has his own money problems.
Well, with a new 'Executive' Chairman during a period of crisis, you would expect him to make an immediate impact?
It's not as though Park has been hired externally: he knows the full picture at Ibrox only too well.
So, IMO, there is no time to waste, and it's for Park to display leadership, whether he wants to or not.
Can we expect some tough decisions being announced tomorrow from Ibrox?
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 15:29
Allyjambo 29th March 2020 at 14:55
Or … Laird Investments promised to make good anything they couldn't raise towards the predicted £10m shortfall. I think it's in the accounts.
And … He has his own money problems.
________________
And as he tends to do when the occasion demands, he's made his 'impecuniosity' very public!
While I'm sure King has money most of us would consider he has to burn, I am sure he will have a figure of £X millions that he would consider himself to be broke with. At the moment he will be getting closer and closer to that figure. I'm sure there will come a point when getting maybe £1m back of his £5m loan will appeal to him more than leaving it with the club and risking losing it all. We also know, for he has previous, if he thinks he'd get more money out of liquidation of his club than from an administration, he'd go for it.
RIFC/TRFC might well have just got themselves another enemy. They are not in short supply.
I doubt The Lying King will be too bothered about his £5m loan. He knows, and Sevco know, he will have no hesitation in applying for a winding up order.
With that, and his 25%, there is still merriment mileage in the crooked crusader yet.
StevieBC 29th March 2020 at 15:51
I have a feeling that as soon as the future of this season has been decided, TRFC's players will be getting a different message than the SMSM seem to believe is possible of their beloved club. That is, should it be confirmed that there will be no more games to be played, then TRFC will decide they have no need to be paying very expensive salaries to self-isolating players. I'm assuming, of course, that nothing happens to force the club's hand before any decision is made by the game's governors.
Corrupt official 29th March 2020 at 16:01
I doubt The Lying King will be too bothered about his £5m loan. He knows, and Sevco know, he will have no hesitation in applying for a winding up order. With that, and his 25%, there is still merriment mileage in the crooked crusader yet.
___________
I think we have to remember that King knows exactly what's going on under the bonnet at Ibrox, he has, of course, caused most of the problems himself. He also has the complete financial picture right up to the moment of his resignation. He will probably have a pretty good idea of how much of his £5m he's likely to see at this moment in time should he demand it back or take even graver action and how much it would be after another month, then the next month and so on.
As they say, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. And King is in South Africa with no intention of coming any closer to Ibrox anytime soon!
I think we are headed for a DCK hand-wringing request to Rangers* for his money back to feed his starving workers and weans.
"Time for other RRM/directors to step up as I did in Rangers* last hour of need….".
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
If Mr Park can end his period as Interim Chairman within 4 months the likelihood is that he could be the first chairman, of all clubs purporting to be a version of Rangers, to have an undefeated team.
Given all that is being suggested regarding his clubs financial position he might not even have to wait 4 months to become that record holder!
redlichtie 29th March 2020 at 16:33
I think we are headed for a DCK hand-wringing request to Rangers* for his money back to feed his starving workers and weans.
"Time for other RRM/directors to step up as I did in Rangers* last hour of need….".
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
__________
You know, that would be very 'Dave King'! In fact, I will be very surprised if we don't read a similar quote from the man, himself, some time soon.
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 15:29
Laird Investments promised to make good anything they couldn't raise towards the predicted £10m shortfall. I think it's in the accounts.
ooooo
He's been so unlucky with that. First he got his laptops and phone nicked so he couldn't make the money transfer, and now the coronavirus has him in isolation in SA fully occupied with the financial wellbeing of his employees. The best laid plans …sigh.
Craig Whyte promised that if he emerges from administration still in control of Rangers FC that he will give immediate consideration to gifting the majority of his shares to a supporters’ foundation.
STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF CRAIG WHYTE – TUESDAY, FREBRUARY [sic] 21, 2012
…………..
Can’t see king even suggesting such a thing.
………………
Allyjambo 29th March 2020 at 15:04
Oops, just came to me, King certainly won’t be doing a debt for equity swop for his loan, whenever it’s due for repayment – or rolling it over!
………
No point in that share issue that king promised, the rest of the board may have thought kings loan would have become confetti.
………………………………….
StevieBC 29th March 2020 at 15:51
Well, with a new ‘Executive’ Chairman during a period of crisis, you would expect him to make an immediate impact?
It’s not as though Park has been hired externally: he knows the full picture at Ibrox only too well.
…….
And i can’t see Ashley doing any deals with Park, not when he was so close to king.
………………..
redlichtie 29th March 2020 at 16:33
I think we are headed for a DCK hand-wringing request to Rangers* for his money back to feed his starving workers and weans.
……
But he would see his grandchildren go without shoes to help the rangers (or something like that, will need to remind myself that one)
……………………………
adam812 29th March 2020 at 16:42
If Mr Park can end his period as Interim Chairman within 4 months the likelihood is that he could be the first chairman, of all clubs purporting to be a version of Rangers, to have an undefeated team.
……
Did one of the interim managers not go undefeated at one point (another i will have to remind myself of)
Depending on the actual terms of the loan facility, King may well have his £5m committed until October 2021.
From the RIFC accounts
It's a game of Russian roulette , King is owed 5m but can't call it in as it would tip them into administration and he would be lucky to see 10% after it's all done and dusted . The Board need him gone as his cold shoulder is infecting their ability to raise funds in normal times never mind today's Covid restricted operation. To buy him out will cost over 12m which they don't have , if he agrees to a lower price than 20p then that affects the overall value of the company and would probably inhibit any auditor from signing off future accounts. King tho as has been pointed out has them by the baws by owning more than 25% which restricts the boards ability to pass special resolutions , a fact that shouldn't have by passed any future investor . The players are similarly caught in limbo , those who refuse to a wage cut will be informed that it risks the existence of the club* . Usually they wouldn't care as it makes them a free agent with the chance to sign for another club transfer fee free but how many other clubs are looking to sign more players at this time . They could end up with no wage instead of half a wage and even the least smart of them can work out what's the best option. In the meantime someone has to continue writing cheques , the only alternative is call in the administrators . If they choose option 1 then they have to be prepared to do that for the long term and it's 20 – 30m without a return . If they choose option 2 then the sooner the better .
If RIFC is intent on removing King's 25% veto over major decisions, then at a minimum they need to issue just over 6m new shares (£1.2m @ 20p a share) to dilute King's holding below 25%.
Unfortunately it's not that simple for a couple of reasons. Firstly there are 8.5m shares without a vote, so King's 25% -1, or whatever he ends up with could still represent more than 25% of the voting shares. The second point is that not everyone votes at AGMs or EGMs, which again means that King's block vote could still represent more than 25%, e.g. if King held 20%, but only 80% of shares participate in a vote, then the 20% would represent 25% of the votes cast.
Timtim 29th March 2020 at 18:41
Option 3.
The bears don’t care as Ashley owes them millions and they have a debt free stadium and un-named trainning complex, and if it does go to the wall Jim McColl and souness are ready with the capes;-)
I see some chat about BBC Sportsound on here. In my view years ago it was a quality programme compared to commercial stations. Now there is little to choose. Mr MacIntyre who presents more often than not, and whoever is above him have reduced it to a publicly funded Rangers podcast. Billy Dodds is guaranteed work any time he fails as a Manager, as is Neil McCann. Add to that Derek Ferguson, Chick Young, and appallingly sometimes Gordon Smith, and you get the picture. Pat Bonner is the token ex-Celtic player, who like many ex-Celts who work in the media is generally very negative about the club. Aberdeen and Hearts are fairly well represented by Richard Gordon, Willie Miller, Alan Preston and Michael Stewart, but the highest representation is towards Rangers. That simply can't be a co-incidence. We deserve better for our licence fee, but it's just the way Scotland is.
I reckon that we're not far away from UEFA making a decision on their competitions for both this year and next . They will have to have lists of clubs who will make up CL and EL entrants (leagues or not) . I don't think there will be time to complete domestic leagues , so they will have to provide the formula for qualification and participation . I would imagine that international travel may be minimised and we may have more regionalised competition . Then there is the dilemma of having fans at games or not . I think that the only football we may see for the remainder of this season is the denouement of cup competitions , as they have some impact on the qualification process .
upthehoops 29th March 2020 at 19:41 I see some chat about BBC Sportsound on here. In my view years ago it was a quality programme compared to commercial stations. Now there is little to choose. Mr MacIntyre who presents more often than not, and whoever is above him have reduced it to a publicly funded Rangers podcast. Billy Dodds is guaranteed work any time he fails as a Manager, as is Neil McCann. Add to that Derek Ferguson, Chick Young, and appallingly sometimes Gordon Smith, and you get the picture. Pat Bonner is the token ex-Celtic player, who like many ex-Celts who work in the media is generally very negative about the club. Aberdeen and Hearts are fairly well represented by Richard Gordon, Willie Miller, Alan Preston and Michael Stewart, but the highest representation is towards Rangers. That simply can't be a co-incidence. We deserve better for our licence fee, but it's just the way Scotland is.
______________________
And as was demonstrated with Michael Stewart, there's a line they must not cross if they want to continue to earn what, compared to real jobs, is very easy money. On one side of that line, of course, are two football clubs that are always confused as one by the pundits' paymasters.
Paddymalarkey@19.40
“I think that the only football we may see for the remainder of this season is the denouement of cup competitions”
I would agree with you that we may get some football before the summer and since it would only mean playing 3 cup games to a finish then that could be achieved in 5/6 days. A summer cup final at the end of June would be something to look forward to. ?
easyJambo 29th March 2020 at 19:21
Would they not need 75% to remove pre-emptive rights anyway, and he can guarantee that failing if he chooses to. I believe it requires a special resolution.
So he would be entitled to buy enough shares to maintain his holding, again if he chose to.
He currently cannot be diluted if he doesn’t want to as I understand it, but I am far from an expert so could be off the mark.
upthehoops 29th March 2020 at 19:41
We deserve better for our licence fee, but it's just the way Scotland is.
==============================
I've never had a license UTH, and never will….. All perfectly legal.
If the SPFL decide to finish the league now and finalise current placings , where would that leave the nice Mr Robertson of TRFC , who has a seat on the board . (the same applies to Les Gray of Hamilton).
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 20:56
easyJambo 29th March 2020 at 19:21
Would they not need 75% to remove pre-emptive rights anyway, and he can guarantee that failing if he chooses to. I believe it requires a special resolution.
So he would be entitled to buy enough shares to maintain his holding, again if he chose to.
He currently cannot be diluted if he doesn’t want to as I understand it, but I am far from an expert so could be off the mark.
=============================
The last RIFC AGM passed a motion to disapply pre-emptive rights, so the Board already has the authority to issue up to 100m new shares to anyone they want (would raise up to £20m at 20p a share). The authority expires on the date of the next AGM.
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 20:56
‘..Would they not need 75% to remove pre-emptive rights anyway, .
……………..
The special resolution removing pre-emptive rights remains in force until the 2020 AGM, I think. If so, then the Board can offer shares to whoever wishes to buy, subject to a maximum ( as I think eJ explained) of 150 people.
The questions would be a) would King make an offer to try to maintain the power of his holding?
b) could the Board in their discretion refuse to sell to him?
edit: while editing this, I have just seen eJ’s post on the point.
easyJambo 29th March 2020 at 21:19
Good point, thanks for that.
I know there was a bit of debt for equity swap within this financial year, was that from that AGM or the previous one.
paddy malarkey 29th March 2020 at 21:09
'..where would that leave the nice Mr Robertson of TRFC , who has a seat on the board…'
++++++++++
Trying to convince the TRFC support that he was in a minority when the votes were cast, I would imagine!
Homunculus 29th March 2020 at 21:28
easyJambo 29th March 2020 at 21:19
Good point, thanks for that.
I know there was a bit of debt for equity swap within this financial year, was that from that AGM or the previous one.
===============================
Yes. Those issues (Sep and Nov) were authorised by the previous AGM.
Allyjambo 29th March 2020 at 20:44
‘..there’s a line they must not cross’
Unquestionably, Aj,the BBC in Scotland has entirely blocked freedom of expression of fact while itself propagating untruth as fact, in the matter of the death of RFC of 1872.
It is not an ‘opinion’ that TRFC is not RFC of 1872. It’s absolutely a matter of fact.
For the BBC to deny people the right while on air to assert that fact and to demonstrate that it is a fact, while they (the BBC) allow all manner of folk to propagate and bolster an actual untruth, is to people of my generation a betrayal of trust of incalculable proportions.
As said before, the BBC fought hard in wartime (!) to insist that telling the truth against propaganda was the better policy.
Today, , in the matter of sport, the utterly unworthy successors of those who worked under Lord Reith, i.e. those despicable folk in charge presently in Pacific Quay, countenance the brazen propagation of untruth while suppressing and silencing those who would tell the simple, factual, truth;
not for the safety of the nation against the military might of a crazed dictator, but to appease the fans of a defunct football club!
It is an unbelievable situation.
https://twitter.com/rpmcomo/status/1244369003621109761?s=21
Well, that’s one option.
Ex Ludo 29th March 2020 at 23:14
https://twitter.com/rpmcomo/status/1244369003621109761?s=21
Well, that’s one option.
========================
I've said previously on the blog that the SFA/SPFL should set aside their rules and sanctions on insolvency.
However, insolvency still means that administrators will have to try to keep the business going and look after the interests of creditors. That will still mean a combination of cutting costs, staff and the disposal of assets. It would also open the way for an opportunist such as a Japanese based investor buying a club at a distressed price. The tweet doesn't reference that status of football creditors though.
Ex Ludo 29th March 2020 at 23:14
'..Well, that’s one option.'
%%%%%%%
Ha ha.What fun!
Let me refer to me masel:
"John Clark 28th March 2020 at 22:33
if they can't find a way to subvent TRFC in cash, they will try to find any way to accommodate them in the present covid-19 chaos."
Not that I take anything that Mitchell says as anything other than his own perhaps not specially well-informed hopes/aspirations.
But of course every effort will be made to ensure that one particular seven year old club is kept alive.
Easyjambo@23.24 et JohnClark@23.39
Given the depths the Scottish football authorities stooped to in 2012 and every day since to ensure a Rangers* survived then I suppose it makes sense, from the authorities point of view, to engineer a compromise whereby CFC are awarded the title now and Rangers * survive to fight another day. Another 5 way agreement if you will.
An extended spring/summer break will allow extra time for the cunning plan to be put in place.
As well as low profile ex pat businessmen based in the Far East I’ve noted on a few internet sites speculation that a certain knight of the realm based in the east of Scotland is considering a return. The humble JJ himself has floated the idea of such a comeback. Who knows?
In the meantime stay safe.
For the avoidance of doubt when I referred to the Scottish football authorities I am really referring to the Clubs which comprise Scottish football.
jimbo 29th March 2020 at 10:09
I vaguely remember once DK spoke with some honesty when he acknowledged the old club were in the liquidation process and that he would like to have bought them out of that (by paying off the debts?). Or maybe I mis read it!
…………………………
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1244554749644607488/photo/1
From the Irish Times online.
“Belarus plough ahead
Belarus, you might have heard, is the only one of the 55 Uefa member countries that has carried on merrily playing football through the pandemic, the head of their football federation, Vladimir Bazanov, at a loss to understand why their season should be postponed.
“For what reason should we not start it,” he asked Reuters when he spoke to them. “There is no critical situation. So we decided that we are starting the championship in a timely manner.”’
Is this herd immunity via football matches I wonder?
John Clark 29th March 2020 at 21:43
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paddy malarkey 29th March 2020 at 21:09
‘..where would that leave the nice Mr Robertson of TRFC , who has a seat on the board…’
++++++++++
Trying to convince the TRFC support that he was in a minority when the votes were cast, I would imagine!
……………………..
Well after all his Bluster in the SMSM he would have to.And he could resign from the SPFL board to add a bit of authenticity to proceedings, and get a bit of rabble rousing going down ibrox way.
Ex Ludo 30th March 2020 at 08:17
a certain knight of the realm based in the east of Scotland is considering a return.
……………
would that be a certain knight who is if i remember correctly the SFA banned from taking part in scottish football ever again
I believe some dim-witted writer at the Sunday Mail (from various mentions by bampots) has written that Jim McColl is in the picture to be the next big 'investor' at RIFC/TRFC. It amazes me how often the same names get dragged out whenever even the SMSM can't ignore the latest/continuous financial crisis at Ibrox, the same names that never end up investing any 'real' money; but even assuming it's true in this case, the question has to be asked – what's happened to last week's saviour, Gibson? Would be nice if the media tackled that question before introducing a new, old, name to the bingo card, if for no other reason than to give the impression, at least, that they've done some proper journalistic work before publishing their made up stories.
But really, it's ridiculous the way the sports hacks continually introduce so many 'latest saviours' without completing the story on the one from the week before first. I suppose, though, that it's as close as we are going to get to a 'Gibson's Gone' headline, or even a hint that he's lost whatever interest he actually had.
To late to edit.
the SFA’s Judicial Panel Disciplinary report, released May 11, 2012.
…….
DAVID Murray sacrificed Rangers to save his business empire after bankers held a £700million gun to his head, it was revealed yesterday.
An SFA panel’s damning report also lays bare how close Rangers came to being kicked out of the association because of Craig Whyte’s disastrous stewardship of the club.
And despite Murray’s later claims of being duped by Whyte, the panel concluded he was well aware of the shady businessman’s failings.
Allyjambo 30th March 2020 at 11:01
……………..
Comfort Blanket. As i posted earlier i expect a walter or ex ibrox (Legend) in the next day or so.
….
But really, it’s ridiculous the way the sports hacks continually introduce so many ‘latest saviours’
…
…And we have seen this movie before in 2012.
It’s all go for the new Lowland League run West of Scotland Football League next season. Applications to join are open until 7 April, but already more than half the West Region Junior clubs have publicly stated that they have applied, with probably a few more who haven’t gone public as yet.
Auchinleck Talbot is one of the latest clubs to make an announcement and I fully expect that all 63 WRJFA clubs will now join the new league. One amateur side, Drumchapel Utd has also applied, so it will be interesting to see if 1) they are accepted and 2) their standard relative to the ex Juniors.
It looks as if all the clubs will be split over 4 or more conferences at Tier 6 of the pyramid, with play-offs to determine the champions, who will then have the chance of progressing to the Lowland League, subject to being licensed.
The ex-Juniors have been offered the opportunity to retain their membership of the SJFA and play in the Junior Cup next season, which I would expect most of them to do, but the Junior Cup will no longer have priority in terms of fixture scheduling in the WoSFL.
Allyjambo 30th March 2020 at 11:01
I believe some dim-witted writer at the Sunday Mail (from various mentions by bampots) has written that Jim McColl is in the picture to be the next big 'investor' at RIFC/TRFC.
================
I read the report on Jim McColl and 'Moneyball' in the Sunday Herald. I'm sure we all know that was about an unfashionable US Baseball team gaining success by using data analysis to sign cheaper players who were used in a system to often do the right thing at the right time (i.e get to 1st base), rather than going for the big hitter occasional home run grand slammers who cost a fortune. It worked, then others cottoned onto it. Baseball is not football however.
To use Liverpool as an example of this in football (as McColl did) is hilarious. Aside from Andy Robertson, the outlay on Klopp's team has been huge in terms of fees and salaries, as it was for his several predecessors.
The whole thing seems designed to somehow portray Rangers as once again being hugely significant and innovative. Yet Celtic have several examples of buying small and selling big. I guess in the great scheme of Rangers having to be seen as being better and more significant all the time that can easily be ignored though.
To conclude, if McColl would be happy to see Rangers being 22 points ahead of Celtic with the Moneyball approach as he states, then why doesn't he go for it. What is there to lose?
Dont quite understand why people are ignoring the most important bit.
McColl saying "not that I would ever do it"
French clubs could be taking an unexpected hit.
From a journalist that covers French football:
French professional football will not receive TV rights for matches which no longer take place. Canal + and BeIn Sport will no longer pay the professional football league (LFP) the € 152,000,000 they would have paid on April 5, 2020.
Clubs, including PSG, have chosen to take advantage of the French government's widened social measures. They have placed all of their employees on partial or technical unemployment. Each club will pay 70% base salary to its employees, and receives a reimbursement from the State.
easyJambo 30th March 2020 at 11:48
It’s all go for the new Lowland League run West of Scotland Football League next season…
=======
As this SFM site is focused on discussing points/questions ignored by the SMSM, the SFA, SPFL and the clubs,
it's still a good place to learn about the Scottish football set up.
I have easily learned more about the Juniors, the Lowland and Highland leagues, and the pyramid system, etc. from eJ's posts – than I have ever read in the SMSM, (if ever?).
And its worthwhile to be reminded that Scottish football is not just about the SPL clubs – or just about the senior clubs.
And when the governing bodies cock up – as they do – there could be eventual ramifications affecting a lot more clubs/people than the 42 senior clubs.
StevieBC 30th March 2020 at 14:41
=============================
The leagues below the SPFL advertise themselves as "affordable football", which means typical admission prices of £7/£6 for adults and £4/£3 for concessions.
The quality in the upper half of the LL, EOS Premier League and what will end up as the WOS Premier League is every bit as good as L1 and L2 of the SPFL. The entertainment value is also great, as it always seems a much more intimate environment when you are close to the action in smaller grounds. With promotion / relegation places a possibility for most teams it's always competitive.
And so the spin goes on ……. and on …….. and on …….
Alasdair Lamont@Alasdair_Lamont
Got an email from Jim McColl in trying to check the story about Liverpool’s owners saying they’d be interested in investing in Rangers. Not much to report but fwiw he did say he’d been mistaken and it wasn’t Fenway Sports Group who spoke to him about it.
easyjambo
it was fenwick golf club,my bad
Two days ago I wrote the following, and lo and behold, Keith Jackson has come up with that 'later communique' in a piece that has some grasp of reality largely sprinkled with succulence and utter BS.
Allyjambo 28th March 2020 at 10:24
…I also think it worth noting that he didn't say anything along the lines of 'Dave King has left the club in a better state than it was when he arrived'. That would probably have been a lie too far, though it may come in a later communique.
Jackson writes:
Wash your hands and stay at home. It’s surely not too much to ask of us at this critical moment, when so many thousands of lives are at stake here in Scotland and across the globe. As this coronavirus pandemic shuts down life as we know it the unavoidable consequences and dire financial ramifications are only just beginning to hit home. It’s crystal clear now Scottish football will not be immune. Hearts have acted quickly to stem the bleeding by attempting to slash their wage bill by 50 per cent and although Ann Budge has been hammered for the brutal manner with which she has gone about it, the truth of the matter is more of our clubs, maybe even all of them, will be forced to take similar action before we’re close to kicking a ball around again. It stands to reason football players cannot expect to be paid in full indefinitely when there is no football for them to play. Without matchday income there is no business model at all and, as existing cash reserves dry up, the options will become much more grim. The noises of distress coming out of Aberdeen and Hibs over the last few days point to the general direction our game is now locked into. Down south, and particularly in the scatter cash environment of the Championship, the picture is even more bleak. During emergency talks last week it became clear a huge number of EFL clubs will be unable to cover April’s wage bill. Up here the richest club in the country is carefully examining its next step. Celtic may have around £30million sitting in the bank but with a wage bill nudging £60m they are also exposed to a cash burn like no other SPFL club. It doesn’t take a mathematician to do the sums. These monumental reserves would be wiped out by another six months of locked doors. Amid all this gathering carnage Dave King chose to take the government edict more literally than most. On Friday, King effectively washed his hands of Rangers while declaring his intention to go into isolation behind the walls of his Johannesburg mansion. In more normal circumstances his resignation as chairman wouldn’t have set alarm bells ringing. After all, King did say at the Ibrox club’s AGM back in November his time at the helm was nearing an end and he would most probably be gone before the end of March. In that respect he has been true to his word. But the world has changed immeasurably over these last few weeks and it seems likely also a huge chunk of the fresh investment on which Rangers had been banking when King first announced his exit timetable will also have been put on pause. Put it this way, over the last week Record Sport has twice reached out to potential new moneyman Stuart Gibson, attempting to ascertain if the COVID-19 crisis will have any impact on the timing of his investment or on the amount of cash he may be able or willing to pump in. On both occasions a source close to Gibson’s business empire in the Far East declined to answer, saying only that there is “no information on that right now”. With stocks and share prices tanking it’s no surprise Gibson’s people are being so vague. No one in their right mind would be ploughing millions into a football club which cannot play football for the foreseeable future, not unless that person happened to be a philanthropic billionaire with wealth off the radar. Gibson may well have given a commitment to follow through with his cash when the situation becomes more stable but there’s no way of knowing when that day might come. That’s why King’s decision to head for the hills should provide Rangers supporters with serious pause for thought. Understandably, these fans idolise King for all of his efforts to rescue their club from the mayhem that was unleashed upon it from the moment Craig Whyte’s pointy shoes first made it over the front door. The Rangers he leaves behind is unrecognisable in comparison to the basket case he took over. And yet King has chosen to cut and run at what is arguably a moment of even greater concern, insisting rather flimsily that he cannot continue to run the club from South Africa. That just doesn’t cut it from a man who has been doing exactly that since the day he took control. In fact King was social distancing himself from Rangers long before the rest of us even knew what it even meant. Only when this crisis is over will his true legacy become clear. It will be determined not by his previous deeds but by what happens next. To that end, Rangers owe a huge debt of gratitude to those King has left holding the fort. Until reinforcements arrive, men such as new interim chairman Douglas Park, deputy chairman John Bennett and other key investors Julian Wolhardt, George Letham, George Taylor and Barry Scott, will be left to dig deep in order to protect the club as well as safeguard their own investments. King campaigned for office on a ticket of enormous promises, adamant he was willing to burn through his children’s inheritance to save his club. Now that push has come to shove, those he leaves behind may have to shoulder that very burden.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-king-washed-hands-rangers-21776538
easyJambo 30th March 2020 at 15:19 5 And so the spin goes on ……. and on …….. and on …….
Alasdair Lamont@Alasdair_Lamont Got an email from Jim McColl in trying to check the story about Liverpool’s owners saying they’d be interested in investing in Rangers. Not much to report but fwiw he did say he’d been mistaken and it wasn’t Fenway Sports Group who spoke to him about it.
____________________
Ah, those heady days of Dallas Cowboys revisited…
I take it someone has realised the futility of spinning mega buck bids from Europe's elite for players repeatedly upstaged by the journeymen players of the two teams that have swopped bottom spot since the New Year.
AJ, ” The Rangers he leaves behind is unrecognisable in comparison to the basket case he took over”.
This stuck out to me too. Would this be the ‘basket case’ that was nearing break even?
They are nowhere near that now.
I will be polite and not mention the lack of silverware since his arrival.
Jackson writes :
"Up here the richest club in the country is carefully examining its next step. Celtic may have around £30 million sitting in the bank but with a wage bill nudging £60m they are also exposed to a cash burn like no other SPFL club. "
So why not mention what is in fact a "basket case" of a club that for the period to 30 June 2019 had staff costs of £34.5M (up from £24.1M) and other operating charges of £22M (up from £13M)? And with just £1M in the bank?
A club that also had this statement in their accounts : "MATERIAL UNCERTAINTY RELATED TO GOING CONCERN We draw attention to information in note 1 in the financial statements concerning the Group’s ability to continue as a going concern. In order to continue operations for the next 12 months the Group is dependent upon raising additional finance to cover projected cash shortfalls in season 2019/20. The precise level of funding required is uncertain as it is inherently dependent on a number of key variables, including the achievement of forecast football performance and player trading. As stated in note 1 the risk that key cash flows are not achieved as forecast , along with the absence of a binding debt facility for any shortfalls, indicate that a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt on the Group’s ability to continue as a going concern."
Not on his radar? Surely worth sounding alarm bells even in the best of circumstances?
Scottish Football does not deserve this kind of moronic journalism.
Redlichtie, even that was a golden era compared to now!
Allyjambo 30th March 2020 at 11:01
As discussed before it is clear that some folks working in the SMSM are just doing what they have to do to keep paying the bills at home. No doubt they all started out wanting to be the next Hugh Mcllvaney but have just become peddlers of pish. Thus the recent McColl and Souness tripe.
As Easyjambo said earlier on even Michael Stewart who seems to have a brain, ended up making an arse of himself on Saturday's Sportsound with pointless pedantry re the Hearts wage cut story. Sometimes they just can't seem to help themselves.
For some reason I get occasional news alerts on my phone emanating from the Daily Express that are usually click bait stories about 'celebs' or TV presenters falling out or being in some form of crisis.
One such headline the other week was along BBC Breakfast's Louise Minchen being 'close to the edge!!!'. I knew exactly what they were on about as the day before she was saying that as they were social distancing she was now sitting at the edge of the sofa and was needing a wee table on the side to put her coffee on.
Like many a football 'exclusive' it all just a load of bollocks to try and move papers and get the web clicks as opposed to providing readers with decent journalism that investigates, educates and informs.
Allyjambo 30th March 2020 at 16:18
'…Jackson writes:…...'
%%%%%%%%%%
And he has this '….. these fans idolise King for all of his efforts to rescue their club from the mayhem that was unleashed upon it from the moment Craig Whyte’s pointy shoes first made it over the front door'
The gutless, pathetic numpty , like the overwhelming majority of his colleagues in the SMSM , daren't mention that it was SDM's cheating that was the real cause of the death of RFC of 1872.
Most of them have metaphorically swapped eating succulent lamb from the knighted one's table for licking the sh.te from his shoes.
JC, maybe they await with bated breath his majestic return!
John Clark 30th March 2020 at 20:58
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Allyjambo 30th March 2020 at 16:18
‘…Jackson writes:……’
%%%%%%%%%%
And he has this ‘….. these fans idolise King for all of his efforts to rescue their club from the mayhem that was unleashed upon it from the moment Craig Whyte’s pointy shoes first made it over the front door’
……………..
It was Jackson and his like that lauded Whyte and his pointy shoes through the front door in the first place. Or did he forget that point.
easyJambo 30th March 2020 at 12:54
'..French clubs could be taking an unexpected hit….'
%%%%%
Oh, that my old French teacher , or rather, my French teacher of old, could have seen me this last half hour or so.He would have been astonished at
a) my interest in looking for source material in French [found a report in today's "L'Equipe"] ( not that I doubted your post, of course!)
b) the trouble I took and the effort I made to try to translate on my own, before using a dictionary or one of the translation sites.
Not for the first time in my adult life did I wonder at how feckin stupid I was as a teen-aged schoolboy, not to appreciate the whole educational experience and get right into it.
Anyway, Canal+ used the 'force majeure' argument, and said that they were just applying the terms of their contract with the French league, and why shouldn't they? And that when the (French) government were happy that the health conditions were back to normal, there would be the possibility of renegotiation.
The paper goes on to say that a further payment would have been due in June , and adds that the League has been subpoenaed to appear before the Paris Commercial Court by Canal+ , who are seeking compensation in respect of matches postponed by the 'yellow jerseys' demonstrations in 2018-19.
Troubled times for ' le foot français', it says.
But I enjoyed myself, almost feeling that I was back in the study hall trying to read an Alistair MacLean novel [HMS Ulysses springs immediately to mind] instead of learning my French vocabulary.
I’ll give Jackson a wee bit of credit for taking a dig at himself with the reference to ‘wealth of the radar’.
“No one in their right mind would be ploughing millions into a football club which cannot play football for the foreseeable future, not unless that person happened to be a philanthropic billionaire with wealth off the radar.”
jimbo 30th March 2020 at 22:59
I’ll give Jackson a wee bit of credit for taking a dig at himself with the reference to ‘wealth of the radar’.
“No one in their right mind would be ploughing millions into a football club which cannot play football for the foreseeable future, not unless that person happened to be a philanthropic billionaire with wealth off the radar.”
————————————————————————
Jimbo, I'm hoping that was a mischievous sub-editor!
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
I see the Jim McColl and other potential investors takeover is warming up nicely according to KJ. Not at the moment obviously but perhaps in the 'medium term'.
Key words – Potential. Could be tempted.
redlichtie 30th March 2020 at 23:08
'.. I'm hoping that was a mischievous sub-editor!'
%%%%%%
That made me smile. And it may have been the case.
But I think , in fairness, I would agree with jimbo: Jackson has tholed his assizes on the MBMB.
Doesn't alter the fact that he's no more than a 'Rangurrs' fan disguised as a Chic…..oops, sorry,.disguised as a journalist.
DCK was the first "Brit" to suffer social distancing thanks to the Takeover Panel
While idling during these strange and worrying days I still find myself scanning the usual sites. This makes little sense as fitba' chat usually requires fitba'. Not so, seemingly, down Govan way.
The GASH/T'Rangers non-joint Statements late on Friday send mixed, if not directly contradictory, messages but as usual the question who actually penned these masterpieces is not clear. The norm is to try to spot the Jabbaisms, the GASHisms, the Chris Ze Listisms or, more rarely, the Grownup In The Roomisms but we know now we have to add the possibility that one, other or both Statements are the First Editions of the Works Of Everyone Anyone (Except Theym) Proud Sash Wearing PR Supremo Guru. Could be any of them.
In the same vein Keef's latest has his name above it but the messages are just as mixed. I see he is being given credit for a reference to "a philanthropic billionaire with wealth off the radar". Maybe I'm missing something or I've suffered a sense of humour bypass but I fail to see how any credit is due. The damage Keef caused to Scottish Football, and one now departed club in particular, and to Scottish polity in general, does not diminish with the passage of time. I don't think I would have credited Ronnie Biggs for a whimsical throwaway line about you can't rob trains without coshing a driver. Keef can play the "Whit Am I Like, Eh?" card but at the peril of getting the answer "Aye, We Know What You're Like. And It's Not Good."
Still we must be due another Statement soon.
T'Rangers Demand Respect And Recognition For Their Pioneering Staunch, Dignified, Public, Civic Blazetrailing By Being Leaders In Social Distancing.
Lesser mortals are social distancing by keeping two metres apart. The Peepul are keeping thirteen points apart. And just in case twenty five of a goals difference apart.
Another effect of the current crisis, notably absent from Government Briefings and Legislation, is Interim Accounts have to self isolate and sadly cannot be published due to the risk of infection, ie Govanites being infected with facts. As Churchill didn't say, Facts Threaten Holding Company Subsidiary Entity Thingmajigs and Careless Talk Causes Lies.
Stay safe.
I’m pleased to report that Aberdeen’s ”money worries” as eagerly reported by certain media outlets are over as a consortium of the Wood Group, BP, Shell and Balmoral are set to pump millions in in a few hours time.
Well I say consortium, more a group of lads on skype actually. And when I say Wood, BP, Shell and Balmoral, we all have a management style at least similar to them, and we definitely have 3 of the four boiler suits and rig bags in question which is pretty much the same thing.
And when we say “a few hours” we do of course mean ….. definitely the medium term. Possibly. Maybe.
I’m now embarrassed for Keef, who is doubling down on his TRFC ‘investment’ non-story this morning.
And by providing further quotes, McColl himself must be seriously needing the publicity,
This lengthy article can be condensed into just the one, telling quote though;
“I was told that if I was ever interested in investing in Rangers to let these other people know…”
Of course he doesn’t elaborate on who told him or who these ‘other people’ are.
On the face of it, it seems to tally with the Bampots’ reported story that RIFC/TRFC Directors had been spotted at Turnberry recently, where they apparently made phone calls to various contacts looking for much needed, new funds.
Allegedly, McColl was amongst those they phoned and the answer was a distinct: “Naw.”
However, that clear rejection seems to have been spun into several, positive SMSM articles over the last few days.
Standard SMSM p!sh output.
There is significantly more chance of ‘investment’ coming from Jim McColl of the BBC’s Beechgrove Garden…
Keef’s desperation is off the radar.
'LUGOSI 31st March 2020 at 08:21
…In the same vein Keef's latest has his name above it but the messages are just as mixed…'
##########################
I was watching one of Mrs. Jingso.Jimsie's favourite cop shows last night when one of the main characters mentioned the famous quote from John Ford's western, 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance':
'When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.'
Is that the key phrase that the current SMSM apply to their daily output?
Nice little background article here:
http://www.oldhollywoodfilms.com/2017/04/classic-movie-quotes-print-legend-from.html
jimbo 30th March 2020 at 22:59 I’ll give Jackson a wee bit of credit for taking a dig at himself with the reference to ‘wealth of the radar’.
“No one in their right mind would be ploughing millions into a football club which cannot play football for the foreseeable future, not unless that person happened to be a philanthropic billionaire with wealth off the radar.”
____________
I'm sure there will be a word that psychologists might use to describe someone who, for the first time, shows a reasonable level of self awareness before, almost immediately, blowing it by saying something almost as ridiculous as that which has taken him 8 years to acknowledge was ridiculous.
It's a bit like a man who's spent the last 20 years in prison for a murder he's never admitted to then commits a second murder minutes after admitting to the first.
Shows he's learned nothing and that the apparent self-awareness was only for effect.
A moronic recidivist?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
I heard via social media that Kylie Minogue that she was interested in going out on a date with me.
Of course given the current situation its not going to happen just now. Its is certainly something I am interested in. It would be great if it was a long term thing. However maybe its best to put on the back burner for just now and look at it medium term once things have calmed down.
Oh wait a minute, I'm hearing it wasn't Kylie it was Danii.
Oops, no that's wrong as well, it was Danny La Rue – apparently!!!
StevieBC 31st March 2020 at 08:34
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I’m now embarrassed for Keef, who is doubling down on his TRFC ‘investment’ non-story this morning.
And by providing further quotes, McColl himself must be seriously needing the publicity,
This lengthy article can be condensed into just the one, telling quote though;
“I was told that if I was ever interested in investing in Rangers to let these other people know…”
Of course he doesn’t elaborate on who told him or who these ‘other people’ are.
On the face of it, it seems to tally with the Bampots’ reported story that RIFC/TRFC Directors had been spotted at Turnberry recently, where they apparently made phone calls to various contacts looking for much needed, new funds.
Allegedly, McColl was amongst those they phoned and the answer was a distinct: “Naw.”
…………………
All these stories of McColl, Souness and Gibson only point in one direction the ibrox club is desperate for cash and are letting it be known, Well run company’s don’t air their business in public most is done behind closed doors. Everyone and their Granny is now linked to be investing in the ibrox club and it is being played out in the open. We are back in the desperate times of 2012 when every day saw new bidders made public just to force any would be bidders hand. Things must be bad down ibrox way if this is how they are going about things.
wottpi 31st March 2020 at 10:51
I heard via social media that Kylie Minogue that she was interested in going out on a date with me.
………………..
Wait until i get a hold of that two timming Bi=@h. after all i did for her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHood00sNJU&feature=youtu.be
Rangers fined €15,200 (£13,492) for a fan invading the pitch and for fireworks.
RANGERS v Braga.
Rangers fined €5250 (£4,660) for objects thrown.
RANGERS v Bayer Leverkusen
……………….
Nothing for sectarian chants?
More fines that the ibrox club at this time can ill afford.
https://rangers.co.uk/club/investor-centre/shareholder-centre/reports-accounts/
I believe today is the deadline for producing the 6 month interim accts so uefa can determine if you are ffp compliant . In the past they have appeared in February ,early March and on 2 occasions as late as the 29th . Never before in their short history have they taken it so close to the wire and should they not appear then how will it be possible to clear them for European competition for next season . Of course without any guarantee of European income then even the staunchest of auditors would struggle to pass the next full accounts . It will also be interesting to see (if they do arrive) who has signed them off and who is in the frame to fund the shortfall this time .
Timtim 31st March 2020 at 12:12
I believe today is the deadline for producing the 6 month interim accts so uefa can determine if you are ffp compliant.
===================================
TRFC will be required to provide updated financial information for the six months to 31 December 2019 in support of their UEFA licence application, to the SFA.
There is no need for that information to be audited, nor is there a requirement to make the information public.
None of the other clubs in contention for European places, barring Celtic which is a listed company, are required to produce interim accounts for their shareholders. As far as TRFC/RIFC is concerned, the publication of interim statements is just a remnant of them previously being a listed company. I don’t know if they will actually produce anything this time round.
" to the SFA" well that's handy , it does however put the onus on the SFA and places them in a difficult position should a collapse occur after they have green lighted them . Of course if it's King who prepared the figures then he becomes the perfect patsy as he is finished on a business and football level within the UK.
eJ
"…nor is there a requirement to make the information public."
=======
That I did not know.
…so, it will be a healthy profit for RIFC for the the first 6 months then…?
Like EJ, I have serious doubts that we will see any interims published. I see no upside for Rangers* in setting out what may well still be uncomfortable figures despite the absence of an audit function.
We should remember too that they are now being handed a Coronavirus 'get out of jail free' card for failed businesses so why muddy the picture with facts that don't quite tie up?
Just another casualty of COVID-19 rather than 8 years of mismanagement and idiocy since the new Club was formed….
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
One thing not publishing interims will do is raise suspicion as to what is really going on behind the blue curtain. If they haven't needed to issue interims for almost 5 years but have done so anyway why change now? It certainly won't help with raising investment and may even have a detrimental effect as it may spook their creditors into asking for payment. My suspicion is they are already trading while insolvent and nobody is going to put there John Hancock on a fabrication of figures that could later come back to bite them on the bahookie.
Cluster One 31st March 2020 @ 11:52:
There were actually three fines for TRFC;
Braga, pitch invasion – 10000Eu.
Braga, fire works – 5250Eu.
Leverkusen, throwing objects – 5250Eu.
CFC were fined 15000Eu for causing a late kick-off in Copenhagen. That’s much worse than a pitch invasion, apparently, even though no sponsors were subject to possible harm due to Lennon sending the team out a couple of minutes late…
Timtim 31st March 2020 at 15:28
One thing not publishing interims will do is raise suspicion as to what is really going on behind the blue curtain. If they haven't needed to issue interims for almost 5 years but have done so anyway why change now? It certainly won't help with raising investment and may even have a detrimental effect as it may spook their creditors into asking for payment. My suspicion is they are already trading while insolvent and nobody is going to put there John Hancock on a fabrication of figures that could later come back to bite them on the bahookie.
—————————————————————————————–
I'll go a step further TT, and suggest that they are already deid. The Big Liar has done it in his troosers, and Park D'Bus has been left holding the foetus in a shitty nappy. The deja vu vultures are again hovering over the carcass. It's only the timing and technique regarding blaming the virus to be decided now, and the establishment won't be asking too too many questions of the establishment club, other than, "How can we help?"
The real question is why do the establishment need a fitba' club?….What purpose does it serve?
It's as certain as the fact I'll never be a teenager again, that a 54 an' coontin' will be with us whenever fitba' resumes again.
End of the month for TRFC but not yet apparently end of the line.
1. They made full payroll.
2. They have made a percentage of payroll without discussion and included letters to employees blaming CVID19 .
3. They have agreed deferred arrangements with high earners and the rest?.. refer to 2.
4. They did not make payroll at all.
Actually making payroll at all astounds me. Hard headed businessmen? hmmm perhaps there is another source of emergency funding to tap that we are unaware of. No doubt it will be legitimate and all above board.
If TRFC have to submit interim accounts to the SFA by close of play today, but don't have to make them public I think it's fair to assume they will submit them. I also think it's fair to assume the accounts will say everything is fine. I also think it's fair to assume the SFA will accept that without question. It will be nothing other than a rubber stamping exercise.
Rangers delisted in 2015, being unable to obtain a NOMAD, which is a requirement for listing on AIM.
They have continued to release interim results. I would argue this was to maintain the illusion that it was really business as usual. Did King not even say that delisting was a good thing anyway as it allowed them more freedom.
If they fail to release the interims this year that can only send out the message that they have something to hide. Why else change their normal practice.
Upthehoops@18.31
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that even a rubber stamp would be superfluous if a new club/company rises from the ashes of the club/company which itself rose from ashes in 2012. It certainly would make life simple for UEFA as the new 2020 company wouldn’t meet the 3 year membership rule and therefore be ineligible for UEFA competitions. Then again, these are strange times and normal rules may not apply.
easyJambo 31st March 2020 at 12:49
'… As far as TRFC/RIFC is concerned, the publication of interim statements is just a remnant of them previously being a listed company..'
%%%%%%%%%%
Open to correction, of course, but I don't think that even plcs are legally required to publish interim accounts.At least that's my reading of the bumph at this link
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-of-a-company-annual-requirements/life-of-a-company-part-1-accounts
(It might just be me, but I find that some of the GOV.uk information pages are not very clearly written)
Homunculus 31st March 2020 at 19:06
If they fail to release the interims this year that can only send out the message that they have something to hide. Why else change their normal practice.
=======================================================
Ludo 31st March 2020 at 19:16
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that even a rubber stamp would be superfluous if a new club/company rises from the ashes of the club/company which itself rose from ashes in 2012. It certainly would make life simple for UEFA as the new 2020 company wouldn’t meet the 3 year membership rule and therefore be ineligible for UEFA competitions. Then again, these are strange times and normal rules may not apply.
========================================================
Homunculus – of course the SMSM will be on to the lack of interims like a flash and fill their pages with a full investigation, blah, blah…
Ludo – like the Scottish Football authorities perhaps pausing points deductions for any Club going into admin due to COVID-19, I wonder if UEFA will go down a similar road regarding eligibility for European competition and waive the three year rule meantime?
Tick those two boxes and an admin event becomes more attractive?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
John Clark 31st March 2020 at 19:19
Open to correction, of course, but I don't think that even plcs are legally required to publish interim accounts.At least that's my reading of the bumph at this link
============================
You are correct on one level that Companies are only legally required to publish annual accounts.
However, the requirement for interim reports is a condition of being listed on a recognised exchange, i.e. it is the exchanges' rules, not company law. That makes sense for companies that are publicly traded to ensure that existing and prospective investors have sufficient information to make a reasoned investment decision.
An example of a plc that doesn't produce interim accounts is Heart of Midlothian plc. It did used to be a listed company, but Romanov decided to de-list the company not long after he took over in 2005.
You may recall Dave King being told that he must make an offer because RIFC came under the auspices of the takeover code, because it had been listed within the previous 10 years. That 10 year rule also applied to Ann Budge when she took over Hearts in 2014.
The half yearly reporting requirement for AIM listed companies is shown below.
I assume its ok to post this link to David Low talking about the future of Scottish fitba'
https://www.celticnewsnow.com/news/david-low-with-a-celtic-state-of-mind-ndash-how-will-the-coronavirus-hit-scottish-football-financially/334333/
One of the side effects of there being no football in the UK and Europe is that the betting companies have lost a sizeable chunk of their market and I have certainly noted a marked increase in the number of tv adverts paid for by betting companies in the last 7 days.
PBy itself this is just businesses protecting their morally suspect profits but when set against the rise in unemployment caused by the virus then the adverts become socially irresponsible as desperate punters look for a quick fix for all their financial woes.
So the SFA take a 10% cut to their already inflated wages – once again they show they are totally out of touch with reality with many people losing their jobs
This token gesture, for that is what it is, will reflect very badly once the clubs themselves announce cuts of 25 to 50 per cent to playing staff, and loss of jobs for many back room staff
The first thing to do this morning is admit I was wrong. I fully expected them to fail to make the March pay roll. I hear that rules on trading while insolvent have been relaxed but that in itself doesn't generate the cash to fill the pay packets. I have also read elsewhere that calling in administrators requires a 75% approval from the Board so King can block that from happening. This makes no sense to me at all in that 1 rogue character with 26% can stop 74% from doing what the law obliges them to do, but then again business law often makes little sense. Going forward I cannot see ST sales breaking any records at any club this season unless it's for the lowest uptake in history . The economy was in turmoil before Covid 19 arrived , there will be much collateral damage once it departs
Menace 1st April 2020 at 09:04
So the SFA take a 10% cut to their already inflated wages…
========
Does anyone know the SFA President salary level?
It's been widely quoted that the CEO Maxwell salary is in the region of c.£300K which is crazy / obscene.
Previously – e.g. under Macrae and Ogilvie – the President role appeared to be more 'ceremonial' / non-executive.
For that type of role, you would think the salary would be minimal.
However, Rod Petrie as President seems to be much more 'hands on' as President – especially as he has also lost his operational role at Hibs.
So, has the SFA President role – and salary – been upgraded?
Nobody seems to be happy with the SFA leadership, so how much are we paying for the top two posts?
£400K, £500K…?
Cant help feeling certain media outlets are conflating two issues in the "to void or not to void" debate.
There is one judgement as regards the winner of each league. There is more than a suggestion today that Celtic (as a 'majority' side – majority in so far as they'd argue they have ~40% fans backing) are sub consciously railroading clubs to the award-as-of-now verdict with Hearts' relegation being somehow merely an unfortunate collateral consequence. The same arguement can be extended down through most of the leagues.
To me though there are two separate questions. Celtic (and Utd and Raith and Cove) potentially win through merit for points achieved to date. I understand that. For what it is worth I agree. Im happy for the Clubs to vote on this basis and the majority, whatever is required get said decision wins the day. If t'other side (of the argument, or indeed another variation thereof) gains necessary votes so be it that way.
But the relegation issue is surely forged on both points achieved AND next year's agreed structure. I dont get why Celtic, Utd, Raith and Cove winning HAS to be associated with Hearts, Thistle, Stranraer and Brechin going down. Its comparing apples and pears.
Let all clubs declare (privately if needs be) their vote on who 'wins' if anyone. THEN you have the vote on next year's structure with, again, full disclosure. Where the Glasgow two sit in that discussion is pivotal (although I accept it is not them themselves per se). Are Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer to be relegated just to ensure we have 4 glasgow derbies for instance? Are Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer, and for that matter Caley, Falkirk and Edinburgh City to miss out just because a mid league premiership side demands 6-8 ties against the big 2?
Let the Clubs decide. But let them air their views and reasoning publicly and honestly. And if they are being strong armed in any particular direction, give them an avenue to say so, anonymously if needs be if 'push-back' concerns them.
But please dont continue to sell the game short on a 'just because', 'aye been' or 'do what yer telt' ticket.
Scottish Premiership: How does data suggest season 2019-20 will play out?
By Martin Watt BBC Scotland
Uncertainty reigns in the Scottish Premiership, where Celtic are tantalisingly near to the title and Hearts are teetering closest to the drop.
With football having ground to a halt, opinion is split on how to resolve the campaign. Complete all fixtures when possible? Call placings now as they stand? Or declare the entire season null and void?
With over three-quarters of the campaign already played, the data is there to make a confident simulation model on how things would pan out if all fixtures were fulfilled.
Using the relative strengths of teams and 100,000 simulations, the Euro Club Index football ranking has provided BBC Scotland with a scientific prediction of the remainder of the campaign, giving a final ranking and clubs’ percentage chances of finishing in certain positions.
Who’ll win the title?
Leaders Celtic’s remarkable league form in 2020 – nine wins and a draw – has put them within touching distance of the trophy.
Neil Lennon’s side have opened up a 13-point lead over stuttering Rangers, who have 27 points left to play for and have slipped up in half of their 10 matches since the winter break.
Celtic’s superior goal difference of 25 over their Glasgow rivals also adds to their advantage and they are predicted near certainties at 98.87% to secure a ninth successive title should play resume.
That leaves Rangers with just a 1.13% chance of claiming their first major trophy since 2011.
However, with two Old Firm games among the Ibrox side’s nine remaining fixtures, they will cling to that small hope until the bitter end.
What about relegation?
Bottom club Hearts, four points adrift of Hamilton Academical, will still be hopeful of surviving.
The prediction model, though, has bad news for them. The Tynecastle side’s chances of finishing bottom are at 43.18%, compared to 32.72% for Accies, 16.34% for St Mirren and 7.5% for Ross County.
Hamilton’s drop fears wouldn’t be eased completely, though, as there is thought to be a 30.63% chance of them finishing in the relegation play-off spot. There’s not much in it, however, with Hearts at 28.22% and St Mirren 26.40%.
St Mirren, currently ninth, are forecast to switch places with County and finish just above danger in 10th.
Euro race and top six
There will be no change to the current top-half and bottom-six make-up, according to the Euro Club Index analysis.
But Aberdeen are forecast to overturn the one-point deficit on Motherwell prior to the split, putting them in pole position to clinch a Europa League spot.
With most clubs having three games before the split, the present top four are rated at 100% to finish in the top half.
Seventh-place St Johnstone have a game in hand, in which a win would propel them above Hibernian. Despite that, though, the Perth team’s chances of finishing in the top six are just 29.33%, with Kilmarnock only 13.76%.
Hibs have a 67.46% chance of not relinquishing their place among the elite, while Livingston are 89.45% to secure a top-six place for the first time since 2002.
What is the Euro Club Index?
The Euro Club Index provides a proprietary ranking of all European football clubs based on competition results over a four-year period.
It is a collaboration between Gracenote Sports and Hypercube Business Innovation. The ranking of top-flight clubs is updated on a daily basis.
The Euro Club Index ratings are used to calculate the potential results for all remaining matches in a competition and these are then run through 100,000 simulations of the remainder of the season to produce the most likely final standings and the percentage chance of finishing in different positions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52054235
The charge created by the santander floating charge shall with regard to all new and used motor vehcles now or in the future owned by the company have priority of security to the extent of the santander priority debt over the charge on the said assets.
……….
One for the numbers guys.
…..
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC066568/filing-history
Smugas 1st April 2020 at 10:57
=======================
Not much to argue with in there. All options have to be on the table, and none can be excluded. As it stands some prominent ex-Rangers players, and Rangers fans in the media, appear to be demanding that the option of awarding Celtic the league is removed altogether before anything else can be decided. For what it’s worth I do believe the huge cultural power Rangers wields in Scottish society will manage to secure some kind of concession. i.e if Celtic are awarded the league, it will come with a caveat that it doesn’t really ‘count’. No-one from any club or support wants what is happening in the world, but given that it is happening, I am sure it will be used to influence a desired outcome within Scottish football. Much along the same lines as ‘same club’, ‘keep all the trophies’ and ‘rules on player registration don’t apply to one club’.
Cluster One 1st April 2020 at 11:37
The charge created by the santander floating charge shall with regard to all new and used motor vehcles now or in the future owned by the company have priority of security to the extent of the santander priority debt over the charge on the said assets.
……….
One for the numbers guys.
…..
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC066568/filing-history
=================================
I don’t think there is much of interest in the raft of charges that have been lodged over the last two or three weeks. To my untrained eye, HSBC holds security over the fixed assets (buildings and garages across Scotland), while Santander has a first ranking floating charge over the moveable assets such as cars.
It may just be a restructuring of the debts within the group of companies.
Of more interest are the last couple of sets of accounts, in particular the dividends paid. The shareholders are Douglas Park (80%) and two sons (10% each). In addition to payment of directors emoluments, dividends of £7.95m and £12.5m were paid in 2018 and 2019. Those are fairly eye watering sums to take out the business for personal use, such as lending cash to a loss making football club, then converting those loans to shares of questionable value.
easyJambo 1st April 2020 at 12:13
To my untrained eye,and i’m no expert in any of this kind of thing, but even looking at that.
There is a lot of security held over assets by HSBC and Santander while park and his sons are taking a lot of money out of the business for personal use instead of maybe putting that money to better use so that HSBC and Santander don’t hold security over anything.
Looking at Company House details it looks like Mr Park senior is listed as resident in Switzerland – anyone know about Swiss tax details and implications for Park I thought they were only allowed in UK a few days per year?
upthehoops 1st April 2020 at 12:09
As it stands some prominent ex-Rangers players, and Rangers fans in the media, appear to be demanding that the option of awarding Celtic the league is removed altogether.
i.e if Celtic are awarded the league, it will come with a caveat that it doesn’t really ‘count’
…………..
And will these ex players and gers fans in the media speak out if the league is removed altogether. be content for TRFC not to recieve second place prize money and the ranking of finishing second place that gives that better seed in europe. You can’t not award one thing and award others.
gerrybhoy67 1st April 2020 at 12:46
I believe king was only allowed into the UK 90 days each year, maybe unlike king park can run things from afar.
upthehoops 1st April 2020 at 12:09
As it stands some prominent ex-Rangers players, and Rangers fans in the media, appear to be demanding that the option of awarding Celtic the league is removed altogether.
i.e if Celtic are awarded the league, it will come with a caveat that it doesn’t really ‘count’
===========================================
Sounds imperfect to me. So doubtless that's what they'll do….
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
gerrybhoy67, you raise another pertinent point.
To maintain his tax status, Park has to abide by restrictions to his access to the UK.
Your main business is in crisis – so naturally you would want to be physically in Scotland to speak to people face to face, get some feel for what's going on, make decisions quickly, etc. IMO, it's a period of time where videoconferencing is NOT ideal. You have to be there.
IIRC, off the top of my head, you are allowed a maximum numbers of days averaged over a 3 or 5 (?) year period. I thought it was c.70 days a year, CO quotes 90 above. So lets say 3 months.
Park could use more days in the UK now – with fewer days taken in following years.
But, here is the kicker.
His main business – his main income source – should attract his main focus, and especially when he has limited time to actually be in the UK.
However, now that King has volunteered Park into the RIFC Chairman hot seat he has – IMO – immediately lost a big chunk of his time to dedicate to his business whilst here.
Effectively, would his e.g. 90 days to focus on Park's of Hamilton be reduced to 45 days or less – because he has to allocate significant time to RIFC, (and trying to protect his own investment there?)
King has certainly dropped Park in the smelly stuff.
Cluster One & StevieBC – thanks for your feedback guys it's maybe not to keep an eye on – like most on here I don't buy the rags but I can't remember SMSM mentioning it whereas they're always keen to remind us about Celtic shareholders being aliens
Just had a thought. Celtic have reasonable reserves and a true billionaire behind them.
Could they be tempted to make a life-saving loan to Rangers* (or a new ThirdRangers) to preserve the "Old Firm" (I know!)?
Say a £10M loan secured on Ibrokes and the famous car park but contingent on Rangers* acknowledging that they are a new club and that tainted titles should be removed from the record of the previous Rangers? And an undertaking that they will live within their means in future, supporting Scottish FFP?
A kind of Scottish 'Truth & Reconciliation' in these difficult times?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath
Apologies if with so many posts over recent times if I am repeating comments already made.
In the event of the season being declared null and void prize money cannot be awarded taking into account league placings as they no longer exist.
If there is any money to be shared financial integrity surely would point to each club within each division getting an equal share of the prize pool for that division as all would be on zero points?
This would not necessarily make every team happy but would surely help ensure that the majority of teams survive to play in post armageddon leagues.
redlichtie
Assuming your suggestion is not linked to the 1st April I suspect Rangers and their supporters would rather hand over everything to Mike Ashley and Sports Direct than be beholden to Celtic!
adam812 – there may have been a slight tongue in cheek element! 🙂 Perhaps MA could also chip in and get security over the logos again… a kind of debt (or damages thanks to DCK/Courts) to equity type swap.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
The DK 90 days.
From what i remember, DK was restricted to 90 days per year visitation rights as a non-domiciled British citizen, To exceed 90 days would bring him into the tax system in the country. That is why he did jet in and out so not to use up his days unnecessarily so that he could have time to catch the odd Liverpool game;-)
restrictions may have changed, so happy to be corrected.
sannoffymesssoitizz,
in relation to how we proceed, there are two rules that the SPFL board needs to concern itself with.
and…
If you take these together (and in relation to the circumstances that we find ourselves in) it can be read as:
If, for any reason during any Season, Clubs cease to participate in the League the Board may determine the deemed score in the remainder of the Official Matches and/or the Board may take such steps and make such determinations as to League and Divisional positions and/or promotion and/or relegation and any and all such further or other steps or measures as the Board shall consider appropriate in the circumstances.
In my view, Rule C50 has been written with the current circumstances in mind.
When it is deemed that the clubs have formally ‘ceased to participate’ in the league – that it will not be possible to play any further games this season – it will be up to the board to determine the deemed score in the games that cannot be played or decide on final positions by some other means.
I’d think that final positions won’t simply be based on current positions as I think they will want to account for all of the 38 scheduled games.
Assuming that the board decide on 0-0 or 1-1 draws for all of the outstanding fixtures, TRFC would end up 12 points behind Celtic in the premiership.
adam812
There is no rule that would allow the board to declare the league competition null and void.
They have the power (via rule C50) to make a determination as to the final league positions.
I'm sure they will follow their own rules.
CO you are right, and I'm probably many years out of date.
It's 91 days a year, averaged over 4 years, with a maximum of 183 days in the UK in any one tax year.
(Think my lower number was from my first stint overseas back in the '90's, so I'm now updated.)
UEFA "postpone" June deadline date.
https://twitter.com/UEFA/status/1245354616654618626
The Dutch approach – I can’t see it happening in the Netherlands or elsewhere in the countries most affected.
Dutch Football@FootballOranje_
UEFA has now decided that all domestic leagues must now be finished by August 3rd instead of June 30th. That means the Eredivisie season could be finished!
Netherlands had two friendlies in June against Wales and Greece but they have now been postponed.
KNVB is aiming to resume the Eredivisie season in mid-June.
Eredivisie resuming in Mid-June and ending by August third. That means some clubs would need to play nine games over 6 week period. Then their is relegation playoffs, European playoffs and the KNVB Cup final too.
Hearts: PFA Scotland assisting players in wage deferral talks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52123918
PFA Scotland is helping “the majority” of Hearts players in negotiations over “substantial wage deferrals”.
All Hearts staff have until 17:00 GMT on Wednesday to respond to the club’s request that they accept a 50% pay cut.
Should they refuse, Hearts can invoke contract clause 12 – an option available to all Scottish Premership clubs – and suspend salaries.
“The players recognise the club’s cash flow problems as a result of COVID-19,” said a players’ union statement.
“They wish to assist the club through these difficult times by offering to negotiate substantial wage deferrals.
“Player contracts cannot be terminated, or altered unilaterally, but the union is more than willing to assist in negotiating agreements between clubs and players.
“In addition, our position is should clubs reduce the wages of existing players on valid agreed contracts, and then use the sums saved to sign new players in August, that would be wholly unfair.”
Hearts captain Steven Naismith has said publicly he will accept the 50% pay cut, while manager Daniel Stendel has wavied his salary and defender Clevid Dikamona has exercised the right to cancel his contract.
The Tynecastle club have also confirmed that “the majority of non-football employees” have been placed on furlough.
PFA Scotland also says clubs “across the country” have begun negotiations with players over wage deferrals alongside participation in the government’s job retention scheme, which pays 80% of wages up to £2,500 per month.
HirsutePursuit 1st April 2020 at 14:52
sannoffymesssoitizz,
in relation to how we proceed, there are two rules that the SPFL board needs to concern itself with…..
—————————————————————
Thanks for that enlightening reply.
I wonder why the SFA "consultant" Daryl Broadfoot's never mentioned those rules?
easyJambo 1st April 2020 at 12:13
Cluster One 1st April 2020 at 12:42
Remember that Mr Park does not have total control over his business. As of April last year The Bank of Scotland’s man, Robert Hare, joined the group/holding company board and most subsidiary boards. Basically Lloyds are now running Park’s of Hamilton.
sannoffymesssoitizz1st April 2020 at 18:04
…
I wonder why the SFA "consultant" Daryl Broadfoot's never mentioned those rules?
……………..
IMO TV contracts mean that the SPFL can't yet say that the season is over.
Perhaps for contractual and/or insurance purposes, they are looking for (need?) someone to take that decision out of their hands.
If I am correct, the board are unlikely to set out how their league competition will be resolved until they are forced to do so. That would be seen as accepting no further games will be played and bring to a head those discussions with the TV companies.
As far as the media are concerned, why present the perfectly straightforward answer when sowing confusion helps keep the sport hacks relevent during this footballing hiatus.
redlichtie 1st April 2020 at 14:02
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Just had a thought. Celtic have reasonable reserves and a true billionaire behind them.
Could they be tempted to make a life-saving loan to Rangers* (or a new ThirdRangers) to preserve the "Old Firm" (I know!)?
Say a £10M loan secured on Ibrokes and the famous car park but contingent on Rangers* acknowledging that they are a new club and that tainted titles should be removed from the record of the previous Rangers? And an undertaking that they will live within their means in future, supporting Scottish FFP?
A kind of Scottish 'Truth & Reconciliation' in these difficult times?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath
================================================
The latest by phil kinda hints that kings 5 million loan might be secured on something that may not be moveable.
HirsutePursuit 1st April 2020 at 19:24
'..Perhaps for contractual and/or insurance purposes, they are looking for (need?) someone to take that decision out of their hands.'
%%%%%%%%%
I've just been reading an interesting article about coronavirus/'force majeure' on this link
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/covid-19-force-majeure-clause
I wonder how the wording of the SPFL's contract with the TV companies reads in its reference to 'force majeure'?
Bonanza days for the lawyers, perhaps.
shug
Morelos?
@ JC isn't every day a bonanza day for the lawyers?
@shug I've just read P McG's teaser about King's security and can only conclude that it can only be the stadium . King has sunk in approx 18.5m in shares and loans , the stadium was valued by Duff and Phelps at less than 5m when Green secured it but its true value as a brown field site to a developer is around 20m . King would have a choice in the event of another phoenix club arising by being able to sell the stadium at a profit or leasing it for a hefty rental . To realise the maximum value , he could turn the main stand into a museum where one could pay to view the St Etienne bike , the loving ceramics and the Petrofac Cup before buying 1 sq ft of turf and a blue plastic seat. There is of course the possibility that King isn't that smart and has secured his loan on the future transfer fee for Senor Alfredo.
shug 1st April 2020 at 19:30
The latest by phil kinda hints that kings 5 million loan might be secured on something that may not be moveable.
………………….
That world famous marble staircase must be worth a few quid. King never ever reached the dizzy heights of it,if it could be moved i think he would take great satisfaction in showing it off in his SA home. After all he is fond of showig off expensive pieces of artwork
This was an expensive piece of artwork
Giovanni 1st April 2020 at 19:03
'.As of April last year The Bank of Scotland’s man, Robert Hare, joined the group/holding company board and most subsidiary boards. '
%%%%%%%%%%%
According to Companies House, Park's of Hamilton (Holdings) Ltd have between 13th and 26th March hve borrowed money on the strength of alterations to the terms of two of the existing 'charges' and added another 13 charges! Just how much have they borrowed?
No wonder the Bank wanted their man on the Board!
And what greedy pigs faither and sons must be, taking massive dividends personally while borrowing significantly.
But I suppose that's the whole point of the game-make sure you're all right first, and f.ck the business and its employees if it comes to the bit.
We have heard that even knights of the realm do that kind of thing, as well as little turds.Oops, that was clumsily expressed: I don't mean that the sh.te of knights of the realm are little turds, but that little turds like MBMBs do that kind of thing.
Cluster One 1st April 2020 at 21:51
'.. After all he is fond of showig off expensive pieces of artwork.'
%%%%%%%%%%%
And his exhibitionism alerted the doggedly determined and persistent Charles Chipps, of the South Africa Revenue Service ( and I raise my wee dram to his memory as I write!) nailed him good and proper!
Here's to Charlie Chipps , God rest him, and all public officials who take their duties seriously, and with integrity!
shug 1st April 2020 at 19:30
The latest by phil kinda hints that kings 5 million loan might be secured on something that may not be moveable.
======================
It's not something that can be hidden for long. If King has been granted security for his loan then the paperwork will have to be lodged with Companies House within the next couple of weeks.
If a charge is not registered within 21 days, it may be difficult to recover the debt if the company becomes insolvent. The 21 days start the day after the charge is created (according to Companies House).
All this talk about security of loans but on Companies House I see Close Bros and the Sports Council as registered charges but nothing else. Is it not mandatory to file such matters with C.H. ?
Edit: I see EJ has answered already, which begs the question when exactly did the loan erhhm.. crystalise.
@EJ I was going to ask why it wasn't listed as a charge at Companies House , now you have said it's 21 days it makes me wonder if he has any security at all as I'm sure he handed over the 5m a lot longer than 21 days ago , unless of course the security has only come recently and maybe as a condition of him standing down . I was of the thought that the stadium had never been used as security as the ownership "whurz ra deeds" was shrouded in mystery and Whyte had a claim on it which he later sold off to a 3rd party. Looks like the smoke and mirrors are back , have they ever gone away?
redlichtie 1st April 2020 at 14:02
'..Could they be tempted to make a life-saving loan to Rangers* (or a new ThirdRangers) to preserve the "Old Firm" (I know!)?'
$$$$$$$$$$$
April 1st and all that aside, redlichtie, there is an underlying 'potential truth' in your question.
I personally am convinced that the 'Res12' issue clearly demonstrates that the Celtic Board do not in the least mind losing a couple of million quid rather than insist on full, thorough and independent investigation into the granting of a UEFA licence to an ( allegedly) un-entitled club to help it survive.
If, and until investigation proves otherwise, it is an 'if', they were happy to accommodate a struggling RFC of 1872 then, who's to say they might not do the same again-not for the sake of TRFC, but for their own sake, as being the other cheek of the revenue-generating 'Old Firm' arse?
Truth is indivisible. And the Celtic Board should know that, and exemplify it.
Giovanni 1st April 2020 at 19:03
Remember that Mr Park does not have total control over his business. As of April last year The Bank of Scotland’s man, Robert Hare, joined the group/holding company board and most subsidiary boards. Basically Lloyds are now running Park’s of Hamilton.
=================================
Well there’s a familiar motif.
Timtim 1st April 2020 at 23:17
@EJ I was going to ask why it wasn't listed as a charge at Companies House , now you have said it's 21 days it makes me wonder if he has any security at all as I'm sure he handed over the 5m a lot longer than 21 days ago , unless of course the security has only come recently and maybe as a condition of him standing down . I was of the thought that the stadium had never been used as security as the ownership "whurz ra deeds" was shrouded in mystery and Whyte had a claim on it which he later sold off to a 3rd party. Looks like the smoke and mirrors are back , have they ever gone away?
===============================
In King's parting statement, he made reference to the last Board meeting on 14 March. I guess that it is possible that he asked for security on his loan, at that meeting, prior to him stepping down as chairman.
If the Board was inclined not to grant him security, then King might have offered the alternative of calling in his loan. The Board, not unreasonably, might then have asked, "ok what would you like as your security".
The Board's response to King's departure was rather cold, so the above could be a plausible scenario, although all it is at this point is flying a kite.
Timtim 1st April 2020 at 23:17
'..as the ownership "whurz ra deeds" was shrouded in mystery .'
$$$$$$$$$$$
But, as I understand things, there should be no mystery.
Ownership of property is a matter of public record. If you are prepared to pay the fee, you can find out who, as a matter of law, owns the title to any land or property in Scotland.
have a read at this link
https://www.ros.gov.uk/services/order-documents
According to that
"You can buy digital copies of title documents from the land register. These include a property's title sheet and title plan.
A title sheet provides details of:
But I imagine, if it was that simple, somebody would by now have been prepared to pay the cost to find out who owns Ibrox stadium, if it is not TRFC Ltd or RIFC plc.
Sadly, I huvnae got 30 quid or whatever to spend on a speculation!
easyJambo 1st April 2020 at 23:01
shug 1st April 2020 at 19:30
The latest by phil kinda hints that kings 5 million loan might be secured on something that may not be moveable.
======================
It's not something that can be hidden for long. If King has been granted security for his loan then the paperwork will have to be lodged with Companies House within the next couple of weeks.
If a charge is not registered within 21 days, it may be difficult to recover the debt if the company becomes insolvent. The 21 days start the day after the charge is created (according to Companies House).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
King has been part of this from the begining.
Why don't Close Bros as lenders of last resort have security over the Stadium? Operating at the level they do that would be their first port of call.
Everyone elses money has been burned in the usual bonfire of vanity at this club. Except Honest Dave.
There are still things we don't know.
@ easyjambo ,The 21 days start the day after the charge is created (according to Companies House). the 4th/5th is D-DAY lol,the truth will out
Could it be the badges that are the security? Would these be subject to a charge.
The original signed 5-way agreement documents, 4 secret tape recordings, the puncture repair kit for the bike. the ludge membership subs, and the club ba'
.
John Clark 1st April 2020 at 22:59 …………… Always ahead of the game there JC.
I got excited for a moment when I received an email alert from Companies House for RIFC just a few minutes ago.
Sadly, it was only confirmation of the "Termination of appointment of David Cunningham King as a director on 27 March 2020"
(It might just be me, but I find that some of the GOV.uk information pages are not very clearly written)
That made me laugh JC,
same as its ever been .
Brass neck and blow torch come to mind.
Former Rangers player and manager Ally McCoist has called for Britain's footballers to follow the example of Ibrox stars when they were in administration and to take wage cuts to save the jobs of regular staff members. (Daily Record)
Slight deviation…
McCoist makes my skin crawl, but generally, IMO, there should be some sort of ‘expiry date’ for ex-footballers as pundits.
To have current pundits who last kicked a ball for a top team, say 20 or 30 years ago is just lazy, IMO. They are – typically – not connected to the modern game or modern training and tactical methods.
(With a few exceptions, of course.)
By not actively replacing pundits, the media is just reinforcing old stereotypical viewpoints, repetition of same observations, and tired, old cliches etc. Fewer new insights to add, or for viewers to learn about the game.
The worst culprit, IMO, has been Match of the Day, with e.g. Shearer still talking mince. But at least Hansen and Lawrensen did eventually slope off – about 10 years past their ‘best’.
Not a fan of Lineker either, or his ridiculous salary, but to be fair he does have additional presenting skills etc.
And with falling paper circulations and TV ratings you would think there would be regular replacements of the talking heads to keep things fresh and relevant?
For balance though: I have been impressed with Sportscene Scoreboard on a Saturday afternoon, where they have two pundits – and one is typically a female, (long black hair, can’t remember her name).
She certainly knows her stuff, and I was pleasantly surprised / impressed: a female pundit on Sportscene?!
Bogs Dollox 2nd April 2020 at 00:52
——
King has been part of this from the beginning.
—-
Remember this folks from an earlier blog:-
——
corsica says:
20/07/2012 at 11:07 pm
Well that’s that, I have now officially retired and all thanks to this blog! Right, enough moping…
Wee question for you all: what do Charles Green, Craig Whyte, Dave King and Andrew Ellis all have in common?
That’s right they all own property and have investments in the Republic of South Africa. What a coincidence, eh?
What’s that I hear? You would like another coincidence? Well, okay, how about they have all at various times threatened to sue each other and other players in this farce but curiously not a single writ has been delivered.
Ask your uncle Max (Clifford) about that little deflection trick…
Another coincidence? How about they were all in Switzerland this week?
As my grandson’s favourite comedian would say “what are the chances of that?”
——–
belgium just announced brugge as league winners with gent 2nd for champions league spot
Giovanni 2nd April 2020 at 12:38
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Bogs Dollox 2nd April 2020 at 00:52
——
King has been part of this from the beginning.
………………
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1245703164441083905/photo/1
…
He has beem hanging about a long time.
I'm surprised the media aren't doorstepping Stevie G(whilst observing social distancing ) asking for his thoughts on how the season should be ended .Title for Liverpool ? Null and void ? And hasn't it gone all quiet over Ibrox way ? I was expecting a statement of reassurance from the recently installed acting chairman , especially as there are season tickets to sell .
Giovanni 2nd April 2020 at 12:38
‘..King has been part of this from the beginning.’
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The mention of the name ‘Clifford’ ( in that post of ‘corsica’s you cite,Giovanni) in connection with ‘men of business’ made me think of Clifford Evans who played the part of Caswell Bligh in that brilliant 1960’s TV series “The Power Game”.
In that series, the really ugly ‘drowning rats in a sack’ face of corporate board life was made plain, as Board members lied to each other as matter of course and mutual dislike and distrust underlay and coloured every board meeting.
I thought in those days that it was only television drama, as far removed from real life as any spaghetti Western is from the ‘real West’
Now I can see that the Ibrox saga has shown that the TV dramatists underplayed the depth of internal fighting and personal corner-fighting that goes on in what really is a tuppence ha’penny company compared to ‘Bligh Industries’!
Rats drowning in a sack are made to look like self-sacrificing heroes!
From today's Guardian . I'm sure somebody can find an equivalent on Scottish clubs . And isn't it nice that the journalists have put their names to their input .
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/02/pay-cuts-furlough-or-deferrals-what-are-the-premier-league-clubs-doing
With 30 games played – or c.75% of the league competition – the vast majority of reasonable people or neutrals would agree that the top team should get the title. A significant points gap, and much superior goal difference makes that decision even easier.
The main rationale could even be: to not award the title – is to deny resolution to ALL the paying customers of ALL clubs who have supported the league throughout the season, to this point.
And for full transparency the title awarded to CFC could have an '*' asterisk next to it: to denote that the full league card was unable to be completed in full that year.
But, for consistency, each and every one of the SPL titles won by Rangers during the EBT Years should also carry an asterisk: to denote that these titles were 'won' with ineligible players.
Sorted!
StevieBC
if people like alex rae want the season null and void then surely his club(sevco)can't complain if they recieve no second place prize money,only fair,i would imagine if that happened they would say give title to celtic so they could recieve much needed cash
Club Bruges to be named champions as Belgian Pro League cancelled
By John Bennett of BBC World Service Sport
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52138270
The Belgian Pro League is set to become the first major European league to be cancelled because of coronavirus.
Club Bruges will be declared champions with the current league table set to stand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Belgian_First_Division_A#League_table
There was one match of the regular season remaining when the league was suspended, with play-offs due to decide the top positions.
The league’s board of directors made the decision and have made a recommendation to the general assembly.
It will be made official on 15 April with a working group to decide relegation and promotion issues.
Club Brugge are 15 points clear of second-placed Gent at the top of the table.
In a statement, the league said: “The board of directors unanimously decided that it was not desirable, whatever the scenario envisaged, to continue the competition after 30 June.”
For comparison.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/belgian-pro-league/table
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premiership/table
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Scottish_Professional_Football_League
https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/SPFL%20Rules%20and%20Regulations%2022-Jul-19.pdf
I actually think the Belgian league is tighter than the Ladbrokes Premiership.
From what I’ve read, after 30 games, the top 6 play off, but the points that are gained in the first 30 games are halved to ensure an exciting (but manufactured) finish to the season.
So Bruges could have had 35 or 37 points at the commencement of (as John James would write) the Meisterrunde depending on the result of matchday 30. Ghent could have had 28 or 29 points. (Half points are rounded up until the end of the season & any half points affecting placings are then deducted.) A possible eight-point swing in the 10 matches is eminently do-able (it’s two losses & a draw).
If any of the above is wrong, I’m happy to be corrected…
On hearing the news regarding Belgium football calling an end to the season I wondered how the broadcast rights holder would react. It seems a company known as M&P silva currently hold the rights and although not a tv company they disseminate and sell to broadcasters as they see fit.One of the people involved in the company is Andrea Radrizzani who is currently the owner of Leeds United afc of the English championship.It will be interesting to see how this developes in terms of his company reaction to a curtailed season and that of Sky who own the English championship rights.
Now that Dave King has resigned as a Director of RIFC PLC, confirmed by Companies House, it is worth bearing in mind that he never held a position on the board of Rangers, the club.
He was a Director of the PLC, the holding company. Not the subsidiary, the club.
It is also worth mentioning that he was on the board of the previous club, and sat there whilst it was destroyed.
A Rangers Legend indeed.
Companies House has just notified me that the annual accounts for TRFCG (Wavetower) have been lodged.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07380537/filing-history
Unfortunately, they are only for the period up to 30 April 2019 while it was still a dormant company.
There is no mention of the settlement agreed with BDO around August last year, even as a post balance sheet event.
The accounts were signed off by a representative of Henderson & Young who were pursuing the legal claim against the Oldco. They show current liabilities of £36k (legal fees?). The £16m “debtors” figure (original claim) appears to have been dropped since the previous year’s accounts.
tony 2nd April 2020 at 14:10
belgium just announced brugge as league winners with gent 2nd for champions league spot
=====================
However Belgium is unlikely to have had to deal with all the powerful influences within their establishment batting in favour of one team that the SPFL are going to have to deal with when they eventually make a decision.
upthehoops
probably up in the bunker hoping uefa make the decision for them,then it's a big bad boy done it and ran away,useless *****
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/staggering-1billion-premier-league-bill-21796461
Homunculus 2nd April 2020 at 17:31
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Now that Dave King has resigned as a Director of RIFC PLC, confirmed by Companies House, it is worth bearing in mind that he never held a position on the board of Rangers, the club.
He was a Director of the PLC, the holding company. Not the subsidiary, the club.
It is also worth mentioning that he was on the board of the previous club, and sat there whilst it was destroyed.
A Rangers Legend indeed.
……………..
I Believe he is the only Director left at RANGERS RETAIL LIMITED.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08142409/officers
……………..
shug 1st April 2020 at 19:30
The latest by phil kinda hints that kings 5 million loan might be secured on something that may not be moveable.
…………….
Wonder if it has anything to do with the loan in a roundabout way?
………………..
16 officers / 15 resignations not a good look for a company.
Cluster One 2nd April 2020 at 22:20
I Believe he is the only Director left at RANGERS RETAIL LIMITED.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08142409/officers
===============================
Rangers Retail ceased trading when TRFC paid SDI £3m to get out of the old contract (joint venture), only to agree a new one year contract with SDI (which included an ongoing matching agreement).
That all happened about three years ago. There was an automatic(?) strike off notice due to accounts not being lodged with Companies House. That dissolution was cancelled, for reasons and by persons unknown to me.
Latest news from Belgium , serious rioting has broken out in the city of Ghent as irate fans protest against League title being awarded to Club Brugge . They are demanding that results after December should not count and all results before then should finish after the 87th minute as their form dropped off after the winter break and they had a tendency to concede late goals . Former player Alexis Rake insists that nobody will accept this tainted title as genuine as scoring more goals and winning more matches is a poor way to judge who is the bestest team. He also hinted that K.A.A. Gent (nicknamed the Buffalo's) saw El Buffalo of the World's most successful club* as the obvious choice to lead the line next season and Directors were preparing a massive bid to entice him to the Kingdom .
SPFL face Celtic title D-Day as £1billion Premier League bill could bounce bosses into going it alone
This was the editorial headline to the article Tony posted above.
What does it even mean?
No sub- editors at the Record? Barely literate ones (No surprises there).
Twitter can be a real laugh at times. There are actually people out there who believe the fact that Rangers have yet to announce their staff are being furloughed, and other clubs have, is something for them to crow about.
A rather sane contributor pointed out the Furlough rules do not apply to companies who are not up to date with their tax payments.
Upthehoops@07.09
“A rather sane contributor pointed out the Furlough rules do not apply to companies who are not up to date with their tax payments. “
Shurely the Club isn’t withholding PAYE and NI contributions? I’ve heard rumours that it happened once but I thought that it was just a folk tale.
JJ overstepping the mark in his latest piece this morning.
easyJambo 2nd April 2020 at 22:45
…………………
Thanks for clarification.
"Uefa issues Champions League & Europa league warning on early finishes
Leagues across Europe have been told that ending competitions early could result in them forfeiting Champions League and Europa League places.
A letter sent by Uefa states that a plan is being formulated to complete current campaigns across the continent in July and August.
Both Uefa club competitions, currently at the last 16, would also then resume.
The letter was issued after Belgium became the first to declare an end to their 2019-20 campaign.
Also signed by the European Club Association and European Leagues, it concludes: "Since participation in Uefa club competitions is determined by the sporting result achieved at the end of a full domestic competition, a premature termination would cast doubts about the fulfilment of such condition."
Scottish FA chief executive Ian Maxwell is in regular contact with Uefa, while the SPFL are in conversation with the European League Association about the matter.
The letter continues: "We are confident that football can restart in the months to come with conditions that will be dictated by public authorities,
"Their work is now focusing on scenarios encompassing the months of July and August, including the possibility that the Uefa competitions restart after the completion of domestic leagues.
"A joint management of calendars is strictly required as the conclusion of the current season must be coordinated with the start of the new one, which may be partly impacted because of the overstretch.
"Closely following the development of the current situation, the calendar working group will indicate as soon as possible, and ideally by mid-May, which of the plans can be enacted for the completion of the season without leaving anyone behind."
The Scottish Premiership's top three places, currently occupied by Celtic, Rangers and Motherwell, would be due to compete in Europe next season, along with the Scottish Cup winners, while the Ibrox side are still involved in this season's Europa League."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52148695
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Hello folks,
I am a long-time follower and admirer of the SFM blog, this is my first post. You are doing a great job in holding Scottish Football to account. More power to your keyboards.
I noticed John Clark’s post yesterday, regarding how to gain access to title deeds for Ibrox Stadium. They are recorded under title number GLA210958 and are available to download from the Registers of Scotland site for £3.60 at:
https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/property-summary/GLA210958/1
I downloaded them on 2 April and found that there are no entries recorded under Section C for Securities. I have not posted them here as they are subject to copyright.
Red Lichtie @ 10.41
Well, I guess that should spell the end for the 'null and void movement'.
Redlichtie@10.41
“ a premature termination would cast doubts about the fulfilment of such condition."
Seems a bit harsh from UEFA which in reality is a barely veiled threat to member countries. Almost 1000 deaths in Italy due to the virus since yesterday, France and Spain are in dire straights and London is teetering on the brink. What would UEFA do if all the members said no?
Does the UEFA letter suggest to anyone else that they are more concerned about the finances of the few who gain large amounts from their tournaments rather than football in general?
Their efforts to minimise the financial hit to their tournaments right now seems to make them blinkered to a long term strategy which should be to ensure that The Beautiful Game can return at every level when it is safe to do so.
For example the 10% pay cut that the SFA CEO has taken is reported to be around £30,000, if taken over a year. To be fair he may be contributing large amounts of his remaining income to charity but with the average nurses annual salary is just under £25,000 his sacrifice does not appear that generous!
As we have seen in our own communities the financial greed, particularly of large organisations, is increasingly getting bad press. Unless damage limitation measures are brought in quickly some brands, in my opinion, are likely to pay heavy price.
Ex Ludo
nothing they could do except cancel competitions,to come down heavy would result in backlash,which they don't want
Mr Lucky 3rd April 2020 at 11:26
''..I downloaded them on 2 April and found that there are no entries recorded under Section C for Securities"
$$$$$$$$
I think I had got as far as that, Mr Lucky, but did you not have to pay more to get the details of the Proprietor?
I would tell UEFA to do one.
The SFA's and SPFL's primary responsibility is to the domestic game. If competitions cannot be completed before the end of July and prize money distributed at that point, then some clubs could go into administration.
Additionally, there is the question of ST sales for clubs involved in promotion/relegation battles.
What if next season is curtailed because of the late finish of this season? Does that not cause issues of sporting integrity next season?
UEFA seems desperate to complete all this season's UEFA games for one reason only, so that they avoid being held liable by the TV companies who fund the CL and EL.
You can guess what they will do about next season's CL and EL. Qualifying will be curtailed (fewer teams/rounds?) so that the group stages can start on schedule and they can start coining in the TV money once again.
UEFA shows no recognition of the fact that many people across Europe are dying on a daily basis and that this virus will continue to flare up from time to time for months to come. Spectators seem a secondary consideration to playing the games. Where is the sporting integrity if a player is unable to play because of having to self isolate? Do they just want to treat it as just another illness?
======================================
If the SFA/SPFL accede to UEFA's demands that the leagues must be completed, then there is a way round the financial distribution issue. You hand out the money now based on current positions, but if final league positions change before the "end" of the season, then you correct the over/underpayment by adjusting next season's distributions.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-summit-could-crown-celtic-21804117
Ive said it before but EUFA need to wisen up to the huge effect this is having on domestic football all over Europe. Without domestic football EUFA is nothing . IMO it would make sense to cancel the Champs league etc for a season . Give time for all the countries to recover from this . Let the domestic leagues finish even if it takes well into the year , Then after that is sorted start the next campaign . A shorter version if need be, with the aim of finishing the season by May next year. Would be crazy for teams ( and fans ) to be travelling through out Europe this year. THEN EUFA can start as normal and hopefully normality is fully up and running by then. EUFA are only interested in their fat salaries and money in the bank. Peoples lives should be put first and foremost . This is showing up EUFA to be the money , power grabbing scum bags we all knew they were
ooops UEFA
Re: the Belgium FA decision.
If it has been reported correctly in the media, (I know), it seems that the Belgians made their decision unilaterally – and even AFTER receiving a UEFA letter instructing all FA’s to hold fire.
Regardless of whether it’s right or wrong: bravo to the Belgian FA for having the strong leadership to go forward with what they believed is right for their own clubs, players, supporters.
They must have also been painfully aware that they would then get pelters from UEFA – who are allegedly now trying to coerce the Belgians to do a u-turn, (like the Health Secretary did on testing.
)
But let’s face it, UEFA has also made it painfully clear over the years that its purpose is to serve the superclubs and to generate maximum profits. UEFA doesn’t give a monkey’s about diddy leagues like Belgium or Scotland.
…is Maxwell still hiding in the Hampden Bunker then?
John Clark 3rd April 2020 at 12:16
Full details of proprietor are included. The ROS map based title deeds provides the following Section A Property, Section B Proprietorship, Section C Securities, Section D Burdens. It runs to 37 pages plus full site plans all for £3.60. They send it to you by email a few minutes after you pay online. I could try and PM you a copy ?
Mr Lucky 3rd April 2020 at 12:52
'.It runs to 37 pages plus full site plans all for £3.60. They send it to you by email a few minutes after you pay online. I could try and PM you a copy ?'
$$$$$$$$$$$$
I woudn't want you to be done for breach of copyright, Mr Lucky. But thank you.
I must have completely misread the stuff when I looked at it when Brown was doing his bit, shouting about where's the deeds.
I'm reasonably happy to accept that TRFC are the Proprietors, because I think that someone long ago would have blown the whistle if there were any real possibility that proprietorship of was debatable.
If there were any existing charge on the stadium or if there is to be one covering King's loan, we'll find out from Companies House.
Mr Lucky 3rd April 2020 at 12:52
John Clark 3rd April 2020 at 13:44
———————————————–
I have a copy that shows the last update as 25/10/2012.
The Proprietor is given as Sevco Scotland Limited with an entry date of 14/06/2012, and which was registered a day later.
John Clark 3rd April 2020 at 13:44
easyJambo 3rd April 2020 at 14:19
There is a note in Section B Proprietorship which reads “1. The above Company is now known as THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED” per the version I downloaded on 02/04/2020. There are no details of when this change took place.
I posted earlier today and my post is ” awaiting moderation ” thats never happened to me before . After reading my post again the only thing I can think on is that I used the words “s**m bags” when referring to EUFA ……… is that a no no ?
It's fast approaching Friday evening… will there be another Ibrox statement issued late tonight?
And as we are talking about 2012, WRT the stadium…
It's at times of crisis that you might have to rely on the goodwill you have generated with friends, business partners, etc.
I would guess there is negligible goodwill today for both the SFA and the SPFL amongst the paying fans – only mistrust and suspicion. Neither organisation has even remotely tried to address this disconnect with its customers since the shameful events of 2012.
Obviously, I don't know what working relationship clubs have with Hampden – but I doubt they would regard the governing bodies as professionally run, competent organisations.
Currently, with this gaping shortage of goodwill towards Hampden, the risk is there could be a disproportionate payback, e.g. with more fans deciding not to return to the shambles that is Scottish football.
And I've thought over the last couple of weeks that the SFA and SPFL have both wasted a golden opportunity.
They have literally had Scottish supporters as a captive audience in their own homes – getting cabin fever.
There could have been daily YouTube videos posted by Maxwell and/or Doncaster. They might not have been able to say much, but e.g. could have answered some questions from viewers. At least it would be a step in the right direction and show that the blazers are trying to move with the times.
They could have produced the videos without even leaving the bunker…
Mr Lucky 3rd April 2020 at 14:33
There is a note in Section B Proprietorship which reads “1. The above Company is now known as THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED” per the version I downloaded on 02/04/2020. There are no details of when this change took place.
===============================
Thanks for the info.
My copy reads as shown below, with a date of entry and a date of registration. (my file was created on 29/04/2013, so it dates from a few days before that when I was sent the file)
https://twitter.com/stevescott_itv/status/1246080927320637448?s=21
Guilt money?
https://twitter.com/mirrorfootball/status/1246081019503095810?s=21
Indefinite suspension for EPL. Anybody heard from the SPFL/SFA?
Did all the EBT holders pay up their tax due?
Scottish Football pundits should come clean on whether they have paid all the tax they should have under their EBT schemes. And also acknowledge that a certain club that professes great allegiance to the Crown happily avoided paying tax that should have been funding essential services.
redlichtie
i very much doubt it
I note the Big Liars leaving is a termination……Not a resignation. For those who know better than I, is this telling wrt internal politics?
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history
Corrupt official
is this like,he's been resigned?asking for my mate mark
This might just be the time for Scottish football to consider moving to summer competition . Once clearance is given , play out the rest of this season and start next season over the summer months , have the winter break and begin again end of March beginning of April .
easyJambo 3rd April 2020 at 15:12
My copy reads as shown below, with a date of entry and a date of registration. (my file was created on 29/04/2013, so it dates from a few days before that when I was sent the file)
…………………………
So Stockbridge had the deeds in the Drawer all along.
……………………………….
StevieBC 3rd April 2020 at 14:51
It’s fast approaching Friday evening… will there be another Ibrox statement issued late tonight?
……………
Has it been a week already, how time flies.
…..
Obviously, I don’t know what working relationship clubs have with Hampden – but I doubt they would regard the governing bodies as professionally run, competent organisations.
……
At the Craig Whyte court case was it not mentioned it’s run like a Bowling club, or a Bowling club is better run?
Corrupt official
you think he was pushed?
tony 3rd April 2020 at 19:00
'..you think he was pushed?'
$$$$$$$$$$$$
He may have been, but 'termination' is the usual word that Companies House use when a director stands down.( I suppose it is none of CH's business why a Director demits office? They just need to have an official note that an individual is no longer a director and the date of termination)
I don't doubt that the other board members were happy to see him go, even if they didn't vote him off.
John Clark
cheers john
tony 3rd April 2020 at 19:00
Corrupt official you think he was pushed?
Dunno mate….
I know he said he was for the off, and his word means diddly-squat. but I would expect he would be looking for “resigned”, on his C.V. if that was really the case. Terminated sounds a wee bit more like, “Mind your ass on the way oot!”, but I’m not sure of CH terminology….Thought I would ask.
It would make a difference regarding internal politics and future decision making though…..
I think it would be fair to say he could be a dangerous vengeful type, but it might be that he’s completely up Nopaddle creek, and now he’s just the school bully wi’ the bloody nose.
Maybe Park D’Bus and Ashley have been smoking the peace-pipe.?
Pure speculation.
Edit…..Cheers John. Missed your post.
Corrupt official
Maybe Park D’Bus and Ashley have been smoking the peace-pipe.?
as long as king is still a shareholder i don't think that is going to happen,covid-19 won't be helping ashley either so i don't think a guy like him will be ready to play nice when this is all over(virus).pure speculation here too
Forgot to add that the reason for starting next season this year is that we'd lose a couple of months to Euro 2021 if we were ro move to summer leagues .
It isn't just King that Ashley is unhappy with , all members of the concert party colluded to undermine Ashley and his placemen on the board , drove down the share price and turned the fan base against them with help from the Press . Park, Letham and Taylor will not be due any favours from Ashley .
paddy malarkey
postponed to 2022 is it not
Timtim
lovely
Evening folks
looking for some help. I have a recollection that the pre SPFL set up had non companies as members ie unincorporated organisations better known as clubs.
can anyone point me to that info please? And who the clubs were that weren’t companies?
tony 3rd April 2020 at 21:44
Postponed for a year until 2021 . World Cup in 2022 .
dom16 3rd April 2020 at 21:54
Evening folks
looking for some help. I have a recollection that the pre SPFL set up had non companies as members ie unincorporated organisations better known as clubs.
can anyone point me to that info please? And who the clubs were that weren’t companies?
================================
@Hirstute Pursuit is your go to man for that. Brechin City, I believe is/was one. Annan Athletic may have been another.
The SPL's articles of association changed in relation to what constituted a club following their 2005 AGM to include the "owner and operator".
The SFA's articles refer to Club or Association
paddy malarkey
sorry bud,one house half too many
Timtim 3rd April 2020 at 21:42
tony 3rd April 2020 at 21:45
……………..
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1246193238974881792/photo/1
……………
They also voted to hold on to Ashleys £5m loan questioned the loan players from Newcastle and set about a boycott of sports Direct stores
dom16
Prior to the creation of the SPL (which has since been renamed the SPFL) all of the senior leagues in Scotland were run by the Scottish Football League (SFL).
The SFL's constitution/rules can be found here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/214043163/SFL-Constitution-Rules
The SFL was itself an unincorporated association (a non corporate body), whose members were the football clubs which participated in each of its divisions.
A club's membership of the SFL was similar in many ways to a person's membership of his local bowling club. The clubs had a vote in how the SFL operated; but, (as a non-corporate entity) no-one had true legal ownership of its assets. Heritable property would be vested in its committee members; but, complex commercial contracts (think TV negotiations) would be almost impossible. Committee members hold unlimited liability if things go wrong.
The SPL was different. Set up as a corporate body, its members were defined as clubs which held a share in the company. Members liability is limited to the value of their shareholding.
You can find the original articles of association from 1998 here:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364/filing-history/ODAyNTYwNjhhZGlxemtjeA/document?format=pdf&download=0
In the beginning, this worked fine. Each of the top clubs (being corporate bodies) were able to take ownership of a share and therefore part ownership of the league.
However, a serious problem arose in 2005. The SPL had been advocating/threatening to set up a second division for several years. This would have involved inviting the clubs in the SFL First Division (what was later renamed the Championship) to resign from that league and make up a second tier of the SPL.
The problem was that Brechin won the Second Division in the 2004/05 season and would potentially be one of those clubs. The reason it was an issue was that Brechin City FC was not (and is still not) incorporated. As an unincorporated association of persons Brechin City FC as of itself has no legal personality and cannot own anything. If one of its committee members was to register the SPL share in his or her name, that person (under the original SPL articles) would be considered to be the club – since only clubs could register a shareholding in the league. Of course, this would have been a nonsense, and so in 2005, the SPL updated its articles to differentiate (when necessary) between the holder of a share and the football club.
In August of 2005 the SPL members signed off on this:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364/filing-history/MTIyNTc3MDU1YWRpcXprY3g/document?format=pdf&download=0
It is important to note that nothing actually changed in the definition of an association football club.
Since, in practice, the top clubs are all companies, they can all own and operate themselves.
But now, with the updated articles, unincorporated Clubs like Brechin -who cannot legally own a share in the SPL/SPFL – can still participate in the league.
As a related matter, it's worth saying that the SPL's articles had nothing to do with Sevco Scotland's entry into the SFL. This comment from a few years back may be of interest:
https://archive.sfm.scot/john-clark-meets-the-sfa/comment-page-14/#comment-141551
The problem was that Brechin won the Second Division in the 2004/05 season and would potentially be one of those clubs.
……………..
See that Brechin do they have a levy on themselves for strange football happenings;-)
Just a thought …
…if a Pools Panel or the like was good enough to decide results of postponed games in the past, why not now to determine outcomes for 2019/20 season (albeit on a larger scale)?
bect67 4th April 2020 at 10:46
Just a thought … …if a Pools Panel or the like was good enough to decide results of postponed games in the past, why not now to determine outcomes for 2019/20 season (albeit on a larger scale)?
______________________-
Three days late with that one, are you not, bect67?
The Pools Panel did not decide the results of matches, they did no more than to facilitate the greed of a few football pool companies enabling them to continue making vast profits. They were not required to do anything more than encourage people to continue to chase their dreams of winning a fortune, and it mattered not one jot if they got it right or wrong for everybody knew their own chances of winning that fortune were close to impossible regardless of what the panel came up with.
To gamble the future of a football club, a business worth millions, on the opinions of a few unqualified 'experts' would be nothing short of crass idiocy, possibly illegal and potentially costing the league millions in litigation. It would probably be fairer, and just as accurate, to toss a coin to decide who won/lost/drew each game.
Plus, of course, despite Celtic's healthy lead, the league could still be won on a handshake. Remember the infamous result an honourable law lord came up with before suggesting that the SPFL would hunt out four or five honourable men of integrity (with the required football 'expertise') to make hundreds of unbiased decisions.
With apologies for possibly not keeping up to date with events, but you've lost me a bit there AJ – what did they decide?
And the solution is…?
AJ and Hirsute Pursuit
thanks so much. Very much appreciate your help
From The Guardian, the relevant para/threat extracted from the UEFA letter to all FA’s;
“Since participation in Uefa club competitions is determined by the sporting result achieved at the end of a full domestic competition, a premature termination would cast doubts about the fulfilment of such condition. Uefa reserves the right to assess the entitlement of clubs to be admitted to the 2020-21 Uefa club competitions, in accordance with the relevant applicable competition regulations.”
The non-top 5 leagues should call out UEFA. Amongst all the negatives, there could be a positive here.
Collectively, the ‘smaller’ leagues could try to redress the power imbalance – rather than just roll over for the discredited UEFA.
https://celtsarehere.com/ibrox-club-planning-legal-action-against-celtic-and-spfl-reports/
surely not
tony 4th April 2020 at 13:33
………….
I am planning on going out for a meal later.
It won’t happen as i have no money, but in the meantime i can cry about it and moan about it and let everyone know how unhappy i am about it.
I may even get some money in by way of a crowd fund (season ticket renewal) if people sympathies with my plight.
bect67 4th April 2020 at 10:46
Allyjambo 4th April 2020 at 11:15
…………….
“When was the pools panel first created and why?
The lack of matches wreaked havoc with the football pools, so Vernons, Zetters and Littlewoods acted quickly.
…
Created just to sort out the pools money not to confirm actual football results.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/dec/08/the-knowledge-pools-panel-creation
“Ibrox sources have told Football Insider that Rangers are firmly against the SPFL forging ahead with calling the season, handing Celtic the title and relegating Hearts.”
I think I can say with some confidence that Rangers* don’t give a sh*t about Hearts.
And Rangers* making any kind of comment on something that “impacts upon the integrity of sport in Scotland” is truly ‘people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones’ time!
Scottish Football would be well rid of a Club that is a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace.
StevieBC
From what I can see, the UEFA regulations say only that entrants to its competitions must be qualified through "sporting merit".
I see no regulations that specify domestic league competitions cannot be curtailed (and results called by whatever means) in these or similarly extraordinary circumstances.
However, the sporting merit clause does seem to rule out the opportunity for national associations to nominate clubs for UEFA competitions in 2020/21 if their domestic league is made null and void in 2019/20.
Simply put, if there is no league results, no club can qualify on sporting merit.
I think that UEFA is actually saying two things:
1. If things unexpectedly change and it is subsequently considered that a league could have been completed, it may not recognise the "sporting merit" of a competition that has been, in their view, terminated prematurely.
2. If a national league does not deliver an outcome for this season, UEFA cannot accept clubs nominated from that association for next season's European campaigns.
UEFA, will be mindful of its own competitions and we can assume its primary imperative will be to get this season completed and set a timetable for 2020/21.
If too many national associations call this season "prematurely" it puts UEFA under pressure to do likewise and abandon its own incomplete cup competitions.
It's not yet ready to do that.
bect67 4th April 2020 at 11:22
With apologies for possibly not keeping up to date with events, but you've lost me a bit there AJ – what did they decide? And the solution is…?
_____________
They decided, solely for the benefit of football coupons, whether a postponed match was a home win, 1 point, an away win, 2 points, or a draw, 3 points. 8 draws = 24 points and your dreams were made. It had absolutely nothing to do with football results and no one with an ounce of sense thought it, in any way, reflected how the results would truly have panned out. If it were at all possible for these 'experts' to come close to predicting the results correctly, I suspect that whenever they were free to do the pools again, they'd have made their fortune quite quickly. They didn't because it was all just eyewash.
The important thing, though, is that it didn't matter. It didn't matter whether or not they got it right, nearly right, or completely wrong, no one lost out as everyone who paid for the privilege of doing the pools knew, before they paid, that the pools panel would be used if a certain number of matches were postponed and it allowed everyone who got pleasure from marking off their coupon on a Saturday at five o'clock to continue to do so throughout the hardest of winters.
As to what I think the solution might be, I can only say I don't know, but I do know that whatever it is it has to take account of the financial disaster that's going to befall our game (I think, that like the virus, we've only seen the beginning of the disaster) and to concentrate on saving as many clubs as possible as, if it doesn't, Scottish football as a whole will suffer greatly.
To be honest, I think we will be very lucky to see football played in our country, and elsewhere, again this year. Obviously I hope I'm wrong, for all our sakes as well as the football, but if I am even just close to being right, a fair number of our clubs are going to go under, especially if the governors continue to pussyfoot around worrying more about not upsetting one of two sets of supporters rather than looking for a solution to what happens next.
Allyjambo 4th April 2020 at 14:29
….As to what I think the solution might be, I can only say I don't know, but I do know that whatever it is it has to take account of the financial disaster that's going to befall our game (I think, that like the virus, we've only seen the beginning of the disaster) and to concentrate on saving as many clubs as possible as, if it doesn't, Scottish football as a whole will suffer greatly.
To be honest, I think we will be very lucky to see football played in our country, and elsewhere, again this year. Obviously I hope I'm wrong, for all our sakes as well as the football, but if I am even just close to being right, a fair number of our clubs are going to go under, especially if the governors continue to pussyfoot around worrying more about not upsetting one of two sets of supporters rather than looking for a solution to what happens next.
============================================
Completely agree AJ. Clubs need to have early clarity so that they can get on with their financial planning and resultant actions as letting this run on just produces a cash burn that few are likely able to afford.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Fitba' clubs are forbidden from challenging the law of the land. The law says nae fitba'. Hospitals are stretched to bursting, and A & E for injured players of poorer clubs is not a morally legitimate option. Changing rooms are not geared to singular occupancy and contact sports breech social distancing guidelines. Who has a 50m dug-out?
Stand-by ambulances hanging about when people are dying?….C'mon !
Test-kits are not freely available, and any that may be sourced at over the odds, under the table prices, merit a more worthwhile use than on pampered ballers. Then there are the backroom staff, match officials, cameramen, commentators, electricians and riggers, coach drivers and kit-men, to name but a few. What, A hunner+ test-kits per game wouldn't be off the mark.
Its an H & S nightmare !
Then there is the polis to consider, because dafties will show-up…. Sneakies will be attempted. Hoverers will try to find out results to be first on twitter with it.
My reading is the league is over, when the league says its over. It has nothing to do with UEFA. It has nothing to do with Sevco, or the Daily Record.
And condolences to my Jambo pals, but Hearts have won 4 games all season……4 !……Where do they expect to be?….Mid table?….Top 6?
It is what it is.
redlichtie 4th April 2020 at 14:10
“Ibrox sources have told Football Insider.
…
I think I can say with some confidence that they don’t even want to put a name to it.
CO. You won't find a Jambo on here denying that Hearts are where they deserve to be, right now, after 30 games. Had the season continued there can be little doubt that they would have been favourites for relegation, but making up 4 points in 8 games is far from impossible and by no means unlikely, but with Celtic supporters trumpeting that they are uncatchable with what most would agree is a pretty unassailable lead, I very much doubt they'd be saying the same thing if TRFC were, in fact, 4 points ahead at this time, laughing their ars*s off at Celtic having to wave 9 in a row goodbye. And TRFC did have the lead at one time, albeit a short time. Imagine if it just so happened that they had that small lead now. Would that be reason enough to crown them champions? Some Celtic fans might say they'd accept that as the right thing to do, but we all know that would not be their true opinion.
However, regardless of who is in bottom place at the moment it would be financial armageddon for them to face relegation after the ravages of the lost revenue of this season, as it would for each club relegated in the lower divisions. We find ourselves in a worse than extraordinary time with clubs all over Europe having forked out extra cash just a few weeks ago trying to avoid relegation, money they most likely would not have spent if they'd even had a hint of the season being cut short.
Clubs that are in no danger of relegation will, quite possibly, face administration or worse and there must be a danger of a domino effect in each tier of the SPFL (and other countries' leagues) that could devastate Scottish football.
It is of little more than a passing interest to the majority of supporters of clubs outside of the New Old Firm bubble whether or not Celtic are handed the league title but what does matter is that their clubs can continue to survive. Not only survive, though, but not fall ever further behind Celtic (we don't know what will happen to TRFC), and to that end I believe the main concern of the SPFL blazers should be the protection of the whole of the league and that that should be their prime concern, well above deciding an argument between just two of their members.
Something else to bear in mind when saying 'just relegate the bottom club after only 30 of 38 games'. The season started with, and was contracted to include, a relegation/promotion play off. The 3 teams below Dundee Utd surely deserve a chance at what they've earned (as much as Celtic have after only 30 matches) and the team in 2nd bottom spot is as deserving of that tightrope and possible relegation as Hearts are of relegation. If we are going to champion sporting integrity we must surely insist that it is contained in every aspect of the game's competitions.
Here's a wee thought. If Hearts poor form up to this point is justification for saying they deserve to be relegated now, is there any reason why the far inferior form throughout the season of the 3 Scottish Cup semi-final also-rans shouldn't just lead to Celtic being handed the Cup, too? The principle seems pretty much the same, to me.
I see your point Ally, but the fact remains it really is what it is. It would be far better to declare the league finito now, and pay out the money, thus assisting club finances. How many could go under waiting an infinite time to receive any form of gate income?.
My point was not about who should be awarded a title, but about a realistic approach to the circumstances faced. These are circumstances faced by all clubs regardless of league position. If the league is to be declared over now, it stands to reason that league positions also stand, and purses be paid out on those positions attained over the course.
Sevco and Hearts are making the most noise about it, and we both understand they could possibly better their positions, but they come with an "If".
But what if "If", doesn't happen?…….What "If" their league positions deteriorate?. …What "If", it leads to an increasing death toll?.
That's the thing with "If's".
Declaring the league over now removes the ifs, and clubs can work, and find solutions towards defined targets…..It will be "Ifs" that cause clubs to go under.
Corrupt official 4th April 2020 at 15:24
Fitba' clubs are forbidden from challenging the law of the land. The law says nae fitba'. Hospitals are stretched to bursting, and A & E for injured players of poorer clubs is not a morally legitimate option.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-striker-joe-garner-pictured-9542025
Allyjambo 4th April 2020 at 16:49
I do not know any Celtic supporters who thinks the club should just be awarded the title.
Everyone I have spoken to has said they want the league to find a way to play the remaining games. Even if that is later in the year and if it has to be behind closed doors.
That would not be perfect but it would be better than just finishing the season as it stands.
I know there are a few Celtic fans on here. No doubt some of you will have seen this article by one of your own?
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18358189.kevin-mckenna-money-grabbing-celtic-make-ashamed-fan/
Don't shoot the messenger please!
I believe Celtic will have earned the SPFL title despite any curtailment.However the relegation issue is something that does trouble me.The impact of loss of membership from the top flight being far more injurious than finishing a disgruntled second.Hearts to be offered a significant 'parachute' payment might ease Gorgie pain but I understand it will be tough to accept.There is a 14 team league suggestion but the increased number of games in a CVid19 compressed season would be difficult to envisage.So Celtic champions, TRFC 'gracious' runners up and Dundee united replace Hearts, abandon the play off games and a lucky escape yet again for Hamilton.It is not ideal but if football can't recommence before the end of May then what….?
bordersdon 4th April 2020 at 18:05
I know there are a few Celtic fans on here. No doubt some of you will have seen this article by one of your own?
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18358189.kevin-mckenna-money-grabbing-celtic-make-ashamed-fan/
Don't shoot the messenger please!
—————————————————————-
I don't think the messenger needs shot BD, and I don't disagree, but there does appear to be a glass ceiling wrt who should contribute/sacrifice more. I lifted this extract for example……
"What contributes more to the government, the NHS/police…etc….. A PL player taking a pay cut that stays with the clubs owners or paying more than 45% tax through PAYE on a large salary which goes directly to the government?.. Let’s take a look at the average PL player- £3m a year…£1.4m goes directly to tax Let’s cut the wage by 80%- £600,000 a year…£270,000 goes to tax Now x500 players £1.4m = £700,000,000m in tax £270,000 = £135,000,000m in tax Which one is preferred? How about the government asks certain people who own airlines and are worth billions to start paying tax, or the sportspeople who are tax exiles. Now what about bankers?"
http://etims.net/?p=15489
Reports vary regarding quantities, but there are a minimum of 54 billionaires in the UK, (probably more). Would they even notice a 50% one off tax to help out in what is a disease which may directly affect them?.
It could reasonably be argued that they will soon have it back again when/if this situation passes.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwilliams1/2019/11/20/exactly-how-many-billionaires-are-there-in-the-uk/#3c9589119b75
What cannot be argued is that a one-off supertax on the uber wealthy would raise more money for the government in the fight, whilst cutting players wages actually deprives the govt, but does leave money in the clubs,…… coincidentally owned by the uber wealthy.
bordersdon 4th April 2020 at 18:05
I read that piece earlier today and agree with Kevin Mckenna’s highlighting the hipocrosy of claiming to be a club like no other and not echoing the sentiment of the majority of fans when it comes to issues such as the living wage. The trust has performed with credit in trying financial times as has the much maligned green brigade but the board seem to consistently miss the point when it comes to protecting what is now becoming an embarrassing aspiration rather than a determined ethical stance. The professional club are by no means the only concern perceived to be taking advantage of troubled times and indeed why should they be pilloried for having the foresight to husband resources carefully? It’s because the fan base and support worldwide expect better of them.
gunnerb 4th April 2020 at 18:49
I believe Celtic will have earned the SPFL title despite any curtailment.However the relegation issue is something that does trouble me.The impact of loss of membership from the top flight being far more injurious than finishing a disgruntled second.Hearts to be offered a significant ‘parachute’ payment might ease Gorgie pain but I understand it will be tough to accept.There is a 14 team league suggestion but the increased number of games in a CVid19 compressed season would be difficult to envisage.So Celtic champions, TRFC ‘gracious’ runners up and Dundee united replace Hearts, abandon the play off games and a lucky escape yet again for Hamilton.It is not ideal but if football can’t recommence before the end of May then what….?
================================
I don’t disagree with much of that. The biggest issue for next season is when it can start. A 14 team league actually offers some flexibility, as you can work with a split to adjust the number of games played from 26 to 40, depending on whether you just play everyone twice, split 7/7 with a third game (32) or with home & away to give four games (40). The split could equally be 6/8. Extra home games, if they can be scheduled, might give clubs a much needed financial boost.
However, if as Aberdeen chairman Dave Cormack suggested on Sportsound, there is a possibility of no football being played in front of a paying crowd before Christmas, then who knows how clubs will manage. I don’t see live streaming of games behind a paywall making up the shortfall.
https://twitter.com/rpmcomo/status/1246489385282961408?s=21
A possible future via Roger Mitchell
If we are unable to play the remaining games I believe a 14 team top division is the way to go.
Indeed if there are 42 teams the 3 divisions of 14 may be the way to go.
I haven't really thought it through though, can anyone maybe enlighten me on how that would be problematic.
Homunculus 4th April 2020 at 22:01
'….I haven't really thought it through though, can anyone maybe enlighten me..'
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I am not knowledgeable enough in the matter of league reconstruction to be able to offer any informed view of the mechanics by which Scottish Football might address the problem caused by the coronavirus.
What I do believe, though, is that we have a governance body that abandoned any notion of sporting integrity in 2012, and perhaps a decade before then.
It is therefore quite likely that anything they were now to decide will be heavily influenced not by any principle, but by the factors that most influenced them in 2012.
If there is still a 'Scottish Football' when the coronavirus is finally defeated, the lie at the heart of it will still be there, and will still need to be dealt with.
TRFC is not, of course, the cause of the pandemic.
But if it survives both its antecedent finance problems and the covid-19 problems, it will still have to be declared as NOT being RFC of 1872, and therefore not entitled to trade on that club's record of legitimate sporting achievement, before sporting truth and honour can be restored to our Sport, and to the Governance of our Sport.
In no way does Covid-19 mean we forget the cheating of SDM, the death by Liquidation of RFC of 1872, the Res 12 issue, or the 5-Way Agreement and the continuing propagation of the untruth that TRFC are the historic Rangers.
In no way whatsoever!
A 14 club league with 26 H and A ties followed by a 7/7 split and 12 H and A ties gives a 38 game season with no excess home or away tie issues
There is no way out of this as every team chasing the title or fighting relegation etc has a valid point as to how the league should / shouldnt end. As much as I wanted 9IAR it all pales into insignificance when you look at the bigger picture. All clubs right now should be knocking their heads together as to how we can best come through this . We should be in survival mode , nothing else . From what ive been reading about this terrible virus around the globe IMHO I really dont see any football being played here or any where in Europe until very late in the year or not in this year at all. Personally I would like to see the season played out to a finish but by the time that comes round we could realistically have lost a few teams in all our leagues , so maybe that is impossible too. I think all the domestic leagues in Europe need to take the elephant out the room i.e Tell EUFA to do one and concentrate on fixing their own domestic leagues before we even think about European football.
If a team like Aberdeen can avoid relegation due to stadium criteria issues at another club then surely relegation can be suspended for one season when the consequences otherwise could be the straw that breaks the camel's back and the relegated clubs falling into administration?
This is not a situation where a club has cheated and failed to pay taxes, then going into administration (and liquidation) – the existential threat has come from outwith football through no fault of the clubs.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1213802694470782976/photo/1
Another month of silence from the SFA.
And nae interims either. Doubt if they will ever be published.
Scottish Football needs on the ball authorities.
It will only take one club in the top flight to go into administration because of this situation and the league will not be able to begin again, how could it.
A club looking for a top six place or european place could be facing a club decemated by Administration due to no fault of their own.
Even if one club goes into administration during the lock down and say the season starts back up, one or two games are played then another club goes into administration during this period, what then?
Before there is even talk of the leagues starting up again finances of all clubs have to be looked at and clubs have to give a cast iron guarantee they can see out an end to this prolonged season, if they can’t the season is finished and decision of a start up is taken out of the SPLFs hands altogether, how could they start up the rest of the season without these guarantees?
Cluster One 5th April 2020 at 11:27 https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1213802694470782976/photo/1
Another month of silence from the SFA.
========
Hmmm…
What is the purpose of this article?
It offers absolutely nothing new: no quotes, no new information.
Is it just deflection away from the SFA sitting on their hands re: UEFA – by pushing the ongoing story about the SFA sitting on their hands re: the Rangers' Euro licence?
…or is it the new TRFC 'PR expert', erm, stirring up something out of nothing for another purpose?
redlichtie 5th April 2020 at 11:39
And nae interims either…
=====
Well that's not really RIFC's fault redlichtie…
King has sloped off back to SA, and – obviously – he still has that fag packet – with the interims scribbled on it – on his person.
Have to cut the MD Robertson, (a genuine, qualified accountant unlike King), some slack here.
Mibbees.
To be fair TRFC may have provided the SFA with the financial information (interims) required to satisfy any licencing requirements.
As EJ (I think) pointed out, there was no need for them to be publishing interims anyway. I suggested they may have been doing so in order to maintain the illusion of normality after having been forced to de-list as no NOMAD would work with them. Which is a requirement on the AIM market.
So, we don't actually know if they have given the SFA what was needed. I'm sure if they haven't the SFA won't consider their application.
Allegedly, the Scottish Chief Medical Officer has been resigned,
and she will shortly be taking up her new post as the SFA spokesperson.
Certainly off topic but classic "do as I say but not as I do".
Homunculus 5th April 2020 at 13:41
So, we don’t actually know if they have given the SFA what was needed. I’m sure if they haven’t the SFA won’t consider their application.
=========================
The trouble is it appears to be nothing other than a exercise. 2011 is well known, but last year a set of interims were proclaimed which appeared quite absurd, and were pretty much confirmed as such as soon as a set of accounts checked by an Auditor had to be produced. In my opinion, a scribbled note to the SFA saying “aye…we’re daein fine” would be enough to get them a licence. Other than Administration and Liquidation in 2012, I can’t envisage ANY circumstance where the SFA would refuse them a licence.
upthehoops 5th April 2020 at 20:01
'..a scribbled note to the SFA saying “aye…we’re daein fine” '
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A scribbled note,UTH? Surely not!
Lord bless us and save us this night and day, what a world it would be if the quiet spoken word of an Ibrox director to a friend on the SFA board was not to be treated as his bond!
Besides, who can be bothered with emails, phone calls and text messages that nosey folk can get their hands on?
The problem with the SFA passing interims that are obviously false occurs if said club has an insolvency event during their participation in a uefa tournament . There are rumours in Blogland that a certain club* is not up to date with its taxes and as a consequence cannot avail themselves of the furlough scheme to help with wages. If that is the case I have to wonder why they would go ahead and pay the March wage bill . I get that if they didn't it is effectively game over and all that investment is gone forever with zero chance of getting it back . Last time around it was the bill from HMRC that floored them as Hector refuses to take pennies on the £ for taxes due . This time it will probably be the football debts that will fail any deal and if they have been dodging the taxman again then the odds are getting higher for a favourable outcome. If the leopard that is King doesn't change his spots then he will also vote against a CVA and the games a bogey. It looks like Park and Co have delayed any bills they can (including tax) just to keep them afloat in the slim hope that a last minute buyer will step in to rescue them . 22m in transfers due , 10m shortfall, 13m to buy out King , SDI compensation , 5m loan to King, 3-4 m for Close ,Memorial walls 1.3m, Hummel/Elite compensation, no kit deal and possibly no European football for next season . No wonder Traynor and King got out of Dodge when they could .
An update from Phil
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/04/05/pesky-rules-and-ibrox-clubs/#more-16279
gerrybhoy67 5th April 2020 at 21:30
An update from Phil
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/04/05/pesky-rules-and-ibrox-clubs/#more-16279
====================================
Under the current SPFL rules, any club with tax arrears has 28 days from a tax liability becoming due to pay it in full. If the bill is not paid in full, then it becomes a “Default Event”. That default must then be reported to the SPFL within 2 days.
The relevant rules are:
E20 Subject to Rules E21 and E28, any Club which:
E20.2 does not within twenty-eight days of a Tax Liability becoming due by the Club on or after 1 June 2014 pay to HMRC the full amount of that Tax Liability;
E20.4 does not within twenty-eight days of the date of an assessment issued by HMRC on or after 1 June 2014 pay to HMRC the full amount of the Club’s Tax Liabilities arising as a result of that assessment; and/or
E20.5 defaults on the terms of any Time to Pay Agreement;
(each a “Default Event”) shall report each such Default Event in writing to the Secretary within 2 days of the Default Event arising.
Timtim 5th April 2020 at 21:17
===================================
Can anyone confirm that a businesses tax affairs have to be up to date in order to apply for Job Retention Scheme payments, I haven't actually seen that anywhere.
I know for example that HMRC are allowing deferment of VAT payments which are due and are pretty much guaranteeing time to pay if people really need it. Well that's the impression I am getting. I think they see getting people paid as the priority just now and will deal with anything else later.
I'm not saying the tax thing isn't right I just haven't seen it anywhere.
Don’t know if anyone heard Sportsound this afternoon. Amongst a decent discussion about Coronavirus, impact on leagues etc Neil McCann was asked to give his best 11 played with, as a fore runner to BBC showing the 2002 (?) cup final tonight as part of their series of showing past games.
Now, as expected, McCanns 11 were entirely Rangers and, I think, entirely EBT funded (I’m sure someone in twitter land will have done the calculation already no doubt, hopefully, complete with an objective comparison to how many nurses or ventilators said first 11 cost us all now). If one could get past that minor trifling point and it appeared contributors Young and English certainly could (lots of ooos and aaaaas and “how good was Scottish football then?”) it was actually a decent listen – a good insight into what the make up of a winning side was.
but I did smile at one point (bearing in mind EBTs were clearly subjecto-non-grata). On discussing Claudio Cannigia, his skill, character, World Cup medal and honourable mention in Maradona’s book Neil breathlessly exclaimed “I mean this guy with this pedigree came to us from Dundee. I mean how on earth could THEY afford him?”
if irony could be bottled, Neil would clearly need a warehouse.
Homunculus 5th April 2020 at 22:05
'…I'm not saying the tax thing isn't right I just haven't seen it anywhere.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Nor have I found that that is a stated condition of eligibility to claim , in the Gov.uk guidance for employers on the job retention scheme
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme#who-can-claim
However, if RIFC move smartly and appoint an Administrator……..they could be covered by this:
"Administrators
Where a company is being taken under the management of an administrator, the administrator will be able to access the Job Retention Scheme. However, we would expect an administrator would only access the scheme if there is a reasonable likelihood of rehiring the workers. For instance, this could be as a result of an administration and pursuit of a sale of the business"
Timtim 5th April 2020 at 21:17
This time it will probably be the football debts that will fail any deal
…………….
With many clubs not receiving any gate income and every penny is a prisioner,i would imagine any club not receiving money due for transfers would be making enquiries as to when they will get their money.
Can’t remember off the top of my head when transfer instalments have to be paid.
https://twitter.com/philippeauclair/status/1246914748563800069?s=21
Le dénoument? n’est pas?
Smugas 5th April 2020 at 22:16
I mean how on earth could THEY afford him?”
—
Never mind irony, if naivety could be bottled. He knows Dundee, and he knows who was in charge at Dens at the time.
Some things are best not said Neil.
Smugas 5th April 2020 at 22:16
'..if irony could be bottled, Neil would clearly need a warehouse'
$$$$$$$$$$$$
Oh that English had come back with a comment like 'especially since not even SDM's Rangers could afford it without cheating the taxman to pay someone like you half a million, Neil!'
But the gombeen man has never had the guts even before he was being paid by the BBC to raise the whole sordid issue.
As things stand UEFA appear to be sticking with their stated schedule re Euro fitba', so the assumption must be that financial reportage/application dates remain unchanged. Sevco, currently sitting 2nd would be entitled to a merited spot, so again the assumption must be that the information required should have been submitted. ……Unless of course the finances are in such poor nick that it would be a waste of paper, (even with association assistance, who themselves must be fearful of scrutiny coming their way).
Or……….
A "restructuring", of the Sevco brand is in the offing and a 3 year Euro exclusion is heading their way anyway. Either way its a tricky wan for the SFA who must be in the know.
Ergo, the SPFL, and through the grapevine, clubs themselves.
The bottom line being that if Sevco, for whatever reason fail to make the cut, the clubs immediately below are looking at an upgrade, which would be a great wee thing to show to the bank manager.
That would involve Motherwell, Aberdeen, and Livingstone.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/motherwell-chief-alan-burrows-believes-21771933
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derek-mcinnes-common-sense-celtic-21813502
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gary-holt-makes-celtic-title-21814890
Just saying.
Homunculus
5th April 2020 at 22:05
5 1 Rate This
Timtim 5th April 2020 at 21:17
===================================
Can anyone confirm that a businesses tax affairs have to be up to date in order to apply for Job Retention Scheme payments, I haven't actually seen that anywhere.
I know for example that HMRC are allowing deferment of VAT payments which are due and are pretty much guaranteeing time to pay if people really need it. Well that's the impression I am getting. I think they see getting people paid as the priority just now and will deal with anything else later.
I'm not saying the tax thing isn't right I just haven't seen it anywhere.
……………………
I suspect – but don't know – that money paid through the job retention scheme will be paid as a 'refund' via the PAYE system.
If that is correct, I'd assume that any outstanding PAYE (owed by the company) would be deducted from the amount paid over by HMRC.
It is possible that a company which owes PAYE can technically join the scheme; but in practice, wouldn't actually receive any payment from HMRC to pass on to its employees.
A company already in that position may think there is little point in joining such a scheme.
No particular insight on this, just thinking out loud.
Timtim 5th April 2020 at 21:17
There’s no mention of non payment of taxes here.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme
I’m also thinking out loud, but there may be some confusion with the scheme for the self employed which requires applicants to have declared accounts, profit, tax etc. for a period of, I think, 6 months.
JC at 22.29
i wonder why the guidance doesn’t lay out what happens on sale of “the business” (the the business?
) under conditions of liquidation. I mean, that happens too doesn’t it?
Over to you Sevco……….
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-push-against-title-declaration-21817984
Being in the age-related 'risk' category vis-vis covid-19 I did our weekly shop at Sainsbury's this morning during the prescribed hour (8 a.m -9.00 am on Mondays). [ and it was extremely well organised, I must say]
I took advantage of the opportunity to buy a copy of 'The Scotsman'.(Mrs C 's orders- she misses the word puzzle stuff and I haven't the heart /courage to refuse her!)
I have previously used the expression" truth is indivisible".
The editorial is little more than a begging plea to Government to help the newspaper industry.Not just a plea, but a demand!
The editorial has the following
" The government's offer to pay the 80 per cent of the salaries of furloughed workers will help many businesses to weather the storm.But this is no solution for struggling newspapers.
Journalists have been rightly identified as 'key workers' during the pandemic.It would be perverse if many were instead to spend it idling at home, having been laid off or placed on paid leave"
Applying the maxim that 'truth is indivisible', it would in my opinion be rather more perverse to fund the continued employment of 'journalists' who help to propagate untruth, whether explicitly or by silence, and the continuance of any newspaper that permits them to do so. That applies to sports journalists in the SMSM.
By the their refusal to tell the truth about the Big Lie, the SMSM have demonstrated that they are not particularly worthy or deserving of our trust any more than is the SFA.
Corrupt official 6th April 2020 at 09:48
From a financial standpoint Celtic cannot afford the risk of no European football next season. Celtic need it to try to balance the books. Or make a profit by getting into the CL group stages.
I'm not sure if UEFA would or could go ahead with their threat, however it would be an enormous risk to take.
I am absolutely convinced that Celtic and the Celtic support really want the season to be finished, however that can be achieved. I certainly do.
Homunculus 6th April 2020 at 10:47
Corrupt official 6th April 2020 at 09:48 From a financial standpoint Celtic cannot afford the risk of no European football next season. Celtic need it to try to balance the books. Or make a profit by getting into the CL group stages.
————————————————-
Couldn't agree more H. In fact I think ALL fans wish this damned virus never appeared, and everything was being played out as per the norm.
But it isn't…… It is now down to how it is dealt with.
Kicking decisions down the road now means clubs have to find another month's payroll, in some cases from thin air. For some clubs that isn't a king's ransom, for others it is. (see what I did there).
Very few players are on mega-bucks in Scotland, and even part-timers may have lost their main source of income. Clubs can't plan within unknown parameters and time-frames.
Some "tide-over" money for them would help more than it would hinder. The only way to do that is declare the league done.
It has just struck me that front-ending the fixture list for next season (should it be on schedule), would also help. The larger clubs, taking their larger support away, to the smaller clubs would be a bonus. An early home gate with the biggees would be a godsend. Some good news to take to the bank manager……
In this instance fiddling with the wonky selection computor's output wouldn't be cheating, but merely common sense….The same with opening cup rounds.
It's hard not to appear like being a self-serving Celtic man through-out this, but honestly, we have won it, and will eventually win it. I think it was you who made the point the other day, "What if clubs go bust in the meantime"…..An excellent point.
That is why I am suggesting declare it now…….Or at least before any damage is done.
To be honest I have switched off a bit re the goings on in Planet Fitba and just dipping in an out as it suits me.
However note that Uefa appear to be insisting leagues are resolved for this season so they can run their competitions once football resumes.
Given the number of CL places given to the top leagues, Uefa doesn't actually give a hoot with regards to who wins a domestic league. They are happy with any old crap as long as they can get enough of the bigger and richer teams from the big 5 leagues into the latter stages of the competition. And if some of those clubs fail they then get a further parachute into the EL.
I don't see why Uefa just don't come out and use the current crisis as opportunity to set up the European Football League as a franchise system and be done with it.
Wottpi, agree with that.
If UEFA was not involved at all / making threats, then FA's could have decided what was best for their league, before now and 'try to manage' the uncertainty.
And it does raise a further question: what's the worst that could happen if 'smaller' leagues chose NOT to participate in any UEFA competition?
If there was a non-UEFA European tournament – excluding the top 5 leagues – where ONLY each league champions played – with no qualifying rounds, and it was knock-out format from start to finish…
That would provide much interest, better games – and it would show up the CL for the borefest it has become.
And what about a version of the Cup Winners Cup too ?
Do the diddy leagues really need UEFA…?
StevieBC@12.55
I think you mean the Atlantic League? ? Maybe it’s time has come?
StevieBC 6th April 2020 at 12:55
The answer is of course that diddy leagues do not need Uefa.
In fact the vast majority of diddy football teams don't need it either.
The big clubs in the top 5 do and those like Celtic, Ajax, Benfica etc, who all aspire to be at the top table, do.
As reminded on the Lisobon Lions documentary the other night the days of Celtic and Rangers both being in the major cup finals and Killie in the semi's of the Fairs Cup in the same year are long gone.
As the chances of getting to the CL are limited then I'd suggest fans of Hearts, Aberdeen Hibs, etc would be happy with a shot at non-Uefa tournies as you suggest.
It would be no better or worse than the current situation of going out in the qualifiers for the EL.
Ladies and gentlemen, with reference to my post of 10.37 this morning, let me give you Joel Sked at
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/sasa-papac-steven-naismith-el-hadji-diuof-rangers-team-which-clinched-clubs-last-and-54th-league-title-and-where-they-are-now-2530584
[Scotsman online , at 1.36 this afternoon.]
with his '54 titles' reference!
Would you believe anything he were now to say about anything?
Don't have access to the main body of the article.To be fair John the headline does read 54th and last title.(ebt aside it is an accurate headline)It references Rangers and not TRFC.
FOLLOWING the serious misrepresentation of Celtic FC, The Herald newspaper today made the following apology to the Club.
“On our front page promotion for a column on Saturday, we stated ‘Celtic cutting non-playing staff’s money shows how far football has lost its soul’.
“We are happy to clarify that Celtic have not cut any non-playing staff’s money. All staff on the Government’s job retention scheme are having their salaries paid in full by Celtic. We apologise to Celtic for our error.”
………………..
Wonder if someone will get his ass kicked or a slap on the back. Big headline celtic bad, small apology paper bad.
Corrupt official 6th April 2020 at 09:48
Over to you Sevco……….
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-push-against-title-declaration-21817984
=====================================================
So Celtic can probably ride out what is in front of Scottish football – quite a bit of pain but they will survive. Many others are not in such a healthy financial position.
Wouldn't it be a huge irony if it was the folks from Ibrokes who ended up calling for Celtic to be anointed as Champions so that they could get their hands on desperately needed cash?
Scottish Football needs a new Declaration of Arbroath to declare independence from UEFA decision-making.
Cluster One 6th April 2020 at 14:51
“We are happy to clarify that Celtic have not cut any non-playing staff’s money. All staff on the Government’s job retention scheme are having their salaries paid in full by Celtic. We apologise to Celtic for our error.”
===============================
I'm a bit confused by the apology above. If Celtic was paying staff their salaries "in full", then there would be no need for it utilise the Government's scheme.
I suspect that Celtic is only topping up the salaries beyond the Government's scheme payments to the level they were at before being furloughed, i.e. Celtic will be contributing as little as 20% to some of those salaries.
———————————————
I appreciate that we are in uncharted waters with the furlough scheme, but I do think some employers (in general terms) are using the scheme simply to reduce their day to day operating costs, rather than through necessity.
It might have been worthwhile for the Government to insert something in the furlough legislation that prevented companies who use the scheme from paying dividends to shareholders or bonuses to employees for at least the next couple of years. It could be have accompanied by a windfall tax of 100% for companies who wished to continue to pay bonuses, similar to that which followed the banking crisis.
On the question of highly paid footballers and other high earners, their dilemma about accepting cuts, deferrals, contributing to charitable causes etc., might be eased if the Government implemented a temporary "super tax" of 20% on everyone earning more than say £500k a year. The new tax year starts today, so there's no time like the present. Oh I forgot, we've got a Tory government.
redlichtie 6th April 2020 at 15:10
Corrupt official 6th April 2020 at 09:48
Over to you Sevco……….
mail https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-push-against-title-declaration-21817984
=====================================================
Wouldn't it be a huge irony if it was the folks from Ibrokes who ended up calling for Celtic to be anointed as Champions so that they could get their hands on desperately needed cash?
=========================================
Indeed Red!…….But a quick glance through Sevco forums will show Sevco to be in an impossible position. Gate receipts, like most, are their most lucrative income stream, and comments of, "Surrender an' Ah'll no be back!", are all the rage. (that's the polite ones).
I'm afraid they are stuck with sabre rattlin' and kiddy-onny threats to sue.
It's quite ironic as it is, because Sevvies themselves surrendered already after the pumping by Hearts weeks ago, and Gerrard had a "Not wanted, Deid or alive", bounty on him……….
I suppose there is every chance they might have their minds changed for them again.
…..They just need to find somebody to blame and it's game on…… I think the Chinese will be prime candidates for "starting", the virus, not buying Alfie, and forgetting to pop the fried rice in the delivery bag.
Aye, they will be totally rational.
easyJambo 6th April 2020 at 15:23
I’m a bit confused by the apology above. If Celtic was paying staff their salaries “in full”, then there would be no need for it utilise the Government’s scheme.
I suspect that Celtic is only topping up the salaries beyond the Government’s scheme payments to the level they were at before being furloughed, i.e. Celtic will be contributing as little as 20% to some of those salaries.
………………………
Someone posted a link to the article the other day, I think the headline was misleading that staff would have their wages cut (ie, taking home less pay)
If celtic are using the goverment scheme, as is their prerogative and they are topping up the staff wages, then the staff are not having their wages cut, they are taking home their full pay.
That is my take.
Corrupt official 6th April 2020 at 15:41
If it was a game of chess, i believe celtic have just played the best move.
As you say, Over to you Sevco……….
We assumed that the ibrox club for all their sabre rattlin’ and kiddy-onny threats to sue. would have behind closed doors be happy for celtic to be awarded the title (much needed income now and another injustice, gets the Season tickets flowing)
I expect behind close doors they are now sweating. Will they start to make noise give celtic the title so we can get on with preparing for next season quotes, obviously from an ibrox source as no one will want to put their name to it.
Corrupt official 6th April 2020 at 15:41
I think the Chinese will be prime candidates for “starting”, the virus, not buying Alfie, and forgetting to pop the fried rice in the delivery bag.
==================================================
Speaking of such things…..
There’s going to be a round of applause for couriers and delivery drivers.
It will be some time between 9am and 5pm tomorrow. 🙂
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
The Government pays the money to the employer 80% of salary up to a maximum of £2,500 per month.
The employer then pays the employee if they choose to they can obviously pay the full salary, but some may just pay the 80%.
The employee has to agree to the arrangement in writing. They must also refrain from doing any work for the employer.
My understanding is that Celtic are putting workers who cannot work from home on furlough, using the scheme and paying 100% of salary.
If that is accurate, then they are paying 20% of the salary, or possibly more, depending on what people were earning.
Re footballers pay – there is of course a great difference between the high rollers in the EPL and the jobbing pros trying to make a living in the lower leagues.
Similarly there is a difference between the high paid footballers and other millionaire sports stars. The footballers are paid by the club/company (lets not go there) whereas individual sports people in sports like tennis, golf, boxing, etc are more like self employed workers. While they may have their money coming in via a company and have back up money from sponsorship etc but currently their ability to win prize money and even appearance fees is totally shot.
Then in those sports the touring pro's and run of the mill fighters are totally screwed.
As someone said on social media elsewhere guys like Harry Kane (just picked his name at random) on a supposed £10m a year probably isn't going to miss, say, £500,000 that would keep a decent number of backroom staff on full wages over this difficult time.
In fact he could give £500k to his own and another £500k to charity and still be paying a decent amount of tax to Hector and not be feeling any pinch whatsoever.
Homunculus@17.41
I think I’m right in saying the monies from the Govt scheme have to be paid back at some point in the future?
Ex Ludo 6th April 2020 at 18:53
Homunculus@17.41
I think I’m right in saying the monies from the Govt scheme have to be paid back at some point in the future?
=============================
My understanding is that the furlough payments are viewed as a "grant", therefore don't have to be repaid.
gunnerb 6th April 2020 at 14:03
"Don't have access to the main body of the article.To be fair John the headline does read 54th and last title.(ebt aside it is an accurate headline)It references Rangers and not TRFC."
$$$$$$$$$$$
In fairness, I can see your point, and would not have wanted to misrepresent what Sked wrote.
Nevertheless , I think I can safely infer from the piece ,and the caption to the photo ,that in referring to " their last major trophy.." Sked does not mean the last one they could ever win, but just the 'most recent' one, leaving room to imagine that he thinks that any TRFC league title win can be added to the '54', thus continuing to propagate the untruth that somehow the liquidated Rangers are still participating in Scottish Football!
Ex Ludo 6th April 2020 at 18:53
No, as EJ said it's a grant, not a loan.
I think there are other loans available to people but the Job Retention Scheme for PAYE is not repayable.
Easyjambo@19.02
Thanks for that. I had a quick look through what’s available on line re these grants. Looks like individual tax liabilities will remain so I suppose a percentage is going back to HMRC.
Ex Ludo 6th April 2020 at 18:53
'..monies from the Govt scheme have to be paid back at some point in the future?
$$$$$$$$$$
You might find this link helpful, Ex Ludo
https://jostevens.co.uk/information-for-employees-uk-government-job-retention-scheme/
"Rules as outlined in official statements released as at 26 March 2020
"Rangers boss Steven Gerrard, first team players, coaches and Executive Directors have volunteered to defer their wages for the next 3 months"
https://twitter.com/ClydeSSB/status/1247226743829692417
I'm not sure if Mr Gerrard is aware he has volunteered ………..
However this isn't a pay cut it's merely stockpiling more debt in the hope that a fire sale can repay this and much more at a later date.
I wonder if a debt for equity swap will be proposed in 3 months time .
Timtim 6th April 2020 at 19:39
“Rangers boss Steven Gerrard, first team players, coaches and Executive Directors have volunteered to defer their wages for the next 3 months”
https://twitter.com/ClydeSSB/status/1247226743829692417
I’m not sure if Mr Gerrard is aware he has volunteered ………..
However this isn’t a pay cut it’s merely stockpiling more debt in the hope that a fire sale can repay this and much more at a later date.
===============================
All or a proportion? If it’s all, then they won’t have any problems paying their PAYE and NICs.
The latest Club statement doesn’t state the scale of the deferral.
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/the-rangers-football-club-limited-update/
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/the-rangers-football-club-limited-update/
Due to the extraordinary challenges from the ongoing crisis, Rangers intends to implement the Coronavirus job retention scheme for a number of employees.
Rangers will ensure that everyone furloughed under this government scheme will receive 100 per cent salary through ‘top up’ assistance from the club with all other conditions and benefits remaining unchanged.
I imagine the discussion went something like
" Youse have a choice , we can either go into liquidation and youse get heehaw or youse can defer wages til the transfer windae opens and get a %age of whatever we can con outta some mug for Alfie the Grump and Kamara . Parky is on the phone tae Juve right noo."
I'm sorry. Seems no different from the Celtic position to me (which I am not knocking)? They may, or not, be about to implode but who knows. Why would they not take advantage of the Government scheme? It's available to protect employees who would otherwise be made redundant (or put on no pay). Tories acting like socialists! Unprecedented times indeed!!
Regardless of the ifs and buts surrounding the wages deferments over Govan way, its still a decent thing to do. Like most clubs, businesses etc, payback can be argued about at a later date. For now its a positive step.
Do Rangers* now hold the world record for kicking the can down the road?
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/04/06/reality-arrives-at-ibrox/
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
bordersdon 6th April 2020 at 20:17
I'm not sure why you started that with "I'm sorry".
I can't imagine why anyone would disagree with you.
If they are putting staff who can't work for them on furlough and paying them their full salary good on them. It helps normal working people at a very difficult time and they are doing more than they have to.
This also assists with the social distancing policy so will help save lives as well.
No need to be sorry about saying that as far as I am concerned.
Well , Liverpool listened to their fans .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52191140
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1247250377017298944/photo/1
…
I was looking for something and came across this. It was a reminder of ibrox players taking the club or company to a tribunial over Holiday pay.
How will this latest ibrox development effect holiday pay?
bordersdon 6th April 2020 at 20:17
I’m sorry. Seems no different from the Celtic position.
…………….
Celtic get a big bad headline and the ibrox club don’t;-)
I picked up on something different with the tweet announcing tonight’s wage deferral, which linked to the Club’s website.
Rangers Football Club@RangersFC2h
The Rangers Football Club Limited: Update
https://rng.rs/2UKMDHI
It’s the first time I’ve seen the club referred to as “The Rangers Football Club Limited” on such communications.
For comparison, the last statement simply referred to it as a “Club statement”
Rangers Football Club@RangersFC Mar 27
Club Statement: https://rng.rs/2Jl4Rce
It’s probably something and nothing, but odd all the same.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/11969523/liverpool-reverse-furlough-decision-and-apologise-to-fans
We should eventually find out the quantum of any deferrals (for all clubs) assuming that they remain in place until the end of June, as they should show as a current liability in their accounts at the end of the financial year.
From James Tavernier's statement , I take the view that there wasn't enough money to pay 100% of the next three months' wages and make up the 20% to furloughed staff and keep the show on the road . I don't see why they are bumming it up , especially when you see what Liverpool did . July 1st wage round could be fun – season book money taking a hammering or blue knight bitcoin billionaire to the rescue ?
It seems that 50% is the deferral.
Not surprised at the 50% figure , it would be unrealistic to expect a 100% deferment . It isn't a pay cut though is it . The other staff taking advantage of the Govt scheme does however shoot down the suggestion that it was unavailable to them due to a failure to meet taxes due. Even with a 50% cut the wages due in April for 1st team squad and management staff will still be close to 1 million (possibly more) and that will be for the Board to fund (again). So at a minimum they have to pay out 2m over the next 3 months just to stay operational
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/04/06/reality-arrives-at-ibrox/#more-16295
Phil now suggesting the pot is sweetened by allowing players to move for reduced fees which helps in the short term but in the future this was a source of potential income they were relying on.
Just wondering how many season books can be sold. I am sure I read somewhere over the last few day that even after it becomes possible to play football again the social distancing rule will still be in play for at least another 6 to 12 months which would have a huge impact on crowd sizes for the bigger clubs. It was probably in an article about Celtic as I am sure the example was the rail seating area seats are 500 mm so you would lose 4 seats between fans can't see how you can sell 60,000 season books but may only be allowed say 10,000 fans due to social distancing.Anyone read this or did I imagine reading this.
Sorry it was yesterday from video celts not sure if this is correct or not copied it as link won't post.
Celtic could be forced to play matches in front of a greatly reduced capacity next season.
A report in The Sun carries a headline about half-empty grounds but the reality of applying the 2 metre rule could see grounds 90% empty.
According to an article by Ferco who were involved with installing RailSeats at Celtic Park each seat in 500mm wide meaning that only one in every fourth seat could be occupied. If that is also applied to rows the 60,000 capacity would be decimated.
Covering the development, The Sun reports:
The 2-metre ruling could be reduced but a restriction on capacity is just the latest issue that football clubs will have to deal with in these unprecedented times.
UEFA seem to be insisting that the 2019/20 season is completed but under the current circumstances matches would have to be played in empty or near empty stadiums.
Lifting the Saturday 3pm ban on live telly matches would go some way towards giving fans access but the home crowd is one of the main attractions of Celtic Park matches. Watching games played out in front of 10,000 carefully spaced fans around the ground would be a very different experience
Shug
By the current space standards employed in football stadia I make that 1 in 4 occupancy in seats and 1 in 3 in rows. That would give Celtic Park for example around 5000, Ibrox 4000 , Easter Rd & Tynecastle 1700.
Serious problems ahead particularly with Scots clubs’( and companies’) heavy dependency on gates.
Very worrying
Even if we can space supporters out in stadiums we will have to consider the problem caused by people going to buy a half-time pie or those with weak bladders. If you are in the middle of a row how do you shuffle past others without breaching social distancing guidelines?
There are other questions and comments to consider in respect of player safety. For example how players can practice social distancing on the field of play? There is a clear protocol for dealing with blood injuries as you can't hide a cut but it's not so easy with an invisible virus! Will goalies have to have handsanitiser to use after touching the ball? Overkill some will say but who hasn't seen a player clear his throat or expelled (sorry) nasal secretions? Masks for players might offer some protection but playing wearing one is unlikely to be easy!
History allows us to see numerous examples where ignorance of risk or, and perhaps more often, individual or corporate greed has led to death or disability.
Whilst it might be easy to say that I'm over-thinking the risks the developing story involving poor Boris suggests otherwise.
Worse than I thought then could this be the death knell for football worldwide?
adam812 7th April 2020 at 04:09
Not sure that you are overthinking it.
Cluster One 6th April 2020 at 21:41
bordersdon 6th April 2020 at 20:17
I’m sorry. Seems no different from the Celtic position.
…………….
Celtic get a big bad headline and the ibrox club don’t;-)
========================
So what else is new? I am also sure that Anne Budge hasn’t missed that it is already being portrayed as an altruistic approach at Ibrox, but then again Rangers ALWAYS do the right thing. They even managed to introduce a dignified approach to illegal tax evasion.
On another note we have the Right Worshipful Alastair Johnston in today’s Times saying an asterix should be put against Celtic title this season should the season be ended and the title awarded. Yes, THAT Alastair Johnston. I don’t think I need to say any more.
Just so long as an Asterix is placed alongside all the titles won using EBTs. Although my own preference would be for those titles to be stripped.
That fine with you Mr Johnston? Fair’s fair.
And today we read that the great work done by the US Attorney General's office in the FIFA corruption scandal continues:
"Former Fifa executives accused of bribes over World Cup bidding "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52197014
"The profiteering and bribery in international soccer have been deep-seated and commonly known practices for decades," said FBI assistant director-in-charge William Sweeney.
"The FBI… are investigating the illicit handshakes and backroom deals hidden in the infrastructure of soccer events, venues and marketing contracts."
Isn't it great to see investigation into alleged cheating in the matter of choice of World Cup venues? Wouldn't it be great to see investigation into licence awards and secret agreements between a governance body and particular clubs?
Oh, for an Elliot Ness in Glasgow!
John Clark
I knew you reminded me of someone. Robert Stack! ??
upthehoops 7th April 2020 at 07:03
UTH I am sure Ms Budge has noticed the difference but she will be far to busy looking at ways to keep Hearts on the go as a viable proposition to be involved in hubris and grandstanding.
That pragmatism is why, as the song says, " the Hearts survived and (the head in the sand) Rangers died".
Sevco will need to tread very carefully if they are to see this particular storm out.
The msm obviously have information regarding sevco's wage deferment, that wasn't inclued in the official statement. They stress a 50% payment, whilst the official statement doesn't say that. PR spin or blatant misreporting?
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/the-rangers-football-club-limited-update/
Having read the TRFC statement there appears to be some ambiguity contained within.
‘Rangers can confirm that First Team players, Manager, coaches and Executive Directors have volunteered to take a salary deferral for the next three months…’
It’s unclear from that part of the statement whether the unspecified deferrals will exist for 3 months, or whether 3 salary payments will be deferred.
TRFC, in line with many other clubs, don’t pay playing staff in June (something discussed on here at length in the past). Annual salaries are paid over an agreed number of 4-week periods or calendar months, leaving June free, as there is no, or very little, club football.
Is the deferral for April & May’s salaries to be repaid in July, or is it April, May & July’s salaries that will be deferred for payment in August?
I would be surprised if there is any competitive professional football played in Europe this year, the overriding priority must be to get rid of this terrible virus,
Watching the press conference yesterday and reporters wanting to know what the exit strategy from lockdown would be, and repeatedly being told – We don't know. In my opinion people are not getting it this is a pandemic, people have died and more are going to die our priority must be to reduce that number by as much as possible.
Everything else is low priority, we can't bring people back to life we can rebuild economies
Big Pink 7th April 2020 at 11:09
'.I knew you reminded me of someone. Robert Stack!.'
$$$$$$$$$$$4
Ha, ha! I was just ruminating on the causes of change in the obliquity of the ecliptic, and that made me laugh!
[Incidentally, Stack was in my opinion a far better 'Elliot Ness' in the tv serial 'The Untouchables' than Costner was in the film of the same name]
upthehoops 7th April 2020 at 07:03
Alastair Johnston
…………..
I think the Alastair Johnston story is just a deflection from the wage cut story coming from ibrox.
Regardless of whether it's a 50% or 100% salary deferral…
it might not be such a big problem if there is squad unity and solidarity.
But, before the shutdown everybody could see that the TRFC squad was in a shambles.
The run of poor results was an extreme dip in form following the winter break.
There were also rumours of a player bust up in Dubai.
Then their star player was dropped for his late return to Scotland – again.
And to top it all: the manager is rumoured to have offered his resignation.
That was all BEFORE the shutdown.
Now, this disharmonious group at TRFC has been volunteered to take a pay deferral.
They won't be happy down Govan way.
JohnClark@11.49
Re Robert Stack v Kevin Costner. Was the TV series not better because it was in black and white and more evocative of the 1930’s and ‘40’s gangster movies? From memory it was shown late on Sunday evenings therefore a school night and I didn’t get to watch it on a regular basis.
Scottish football needs stylish fedoras.
Johnston said:
"I don't want to be frivolous about it but a lot of Rangers fans have reached out to me and basically said,
'Mr Johnston, if Celtic are designated as the winners of the league, does it mean they have won eight-and-a-half in a row?'
"That's not something you want - that asterisk.
"So ideally I can't imagine that anybody really wants to have their efforts undermined or compromised or not appreciated."
==============
I used to think that Johnston was just an arrogant tw@t.
Now I know.
StevieBC 7th April 2020 at 14:31
Johnston said………………………………
===============
A fraudster who can't get past a F&P test that even the Big Liar and Potless Paul skated, …….But still a mister?……
That's not what I would call him.
Big Pink
Re selling STs and attending. I put something on the following lines, including changing broadcast rules that UEFA subsequently have done, to Celtic TV week before last and whilst there are other factors or approaches being considered they are beefing up the CTV hardware.
I know too that the NBA in the US are looking at delivery by TV as a precursor to physical attendance.
The solution is make home games watchable on Celtic TV to ST holders & to non ST holders at same price ppv or subscription at ST price level.
UEFA have dropped 3 to 5 blackout rule & the rule not to broadcast in UK can similarly be dropped. Spread the load across the support base
The last point is one I've made based on CTV overseas subscription costs which is a snap as it covers all league/cup games at 1/3 cost of an ST for half the games.
Self testing is the answer to isolation so players would be subject to that at regular periods as a matter of course and I wouldnt be surprised if, subject to building the capacity, it was a regular feature of life until a vaccine emerges. There is money to be made there so filthy capitalists will be making kits instead of kilts.
Taking the idea to possibly absurd levels (where we may have gone in Jack and Victor style conversation), you could also provide a link to Just Eat and order pie and bovril from your armchair.
What underpins all of this is adopting the long spoon approach and if the lesson from that is not being learned now, it never will.
We are all in this together and are experiencing the birth pains of a whole new world where hopefully long spoon thinking will become the default or we are going back to a bleak future.
The long spoon message made simple.
https://youtu.be/7mGVOekKMRs
I would be amazed if football grounds were allowed to have any sizeable support in them whilst social distancing was in force.
The notion that we could reduce the capacity by say 75% and still let 15,000 people into Celtic Park makes no sense to me.
How do we get the people to the stadium, how do we get them through the turnstiles, how do we get them to their seats, how do we let them use toilet facilities, catering facilities. How do we get them back out through the turnstiles and away from the ground.
How do we Police all of that, how do we provide things like ambulance facilities.
It makes no sense to me, and televising the games live would seem to be the only option.
That's if the games are even allowed at all, bearing in mind the players, managers, staff, officials etc would also have to be factored in. Though that is possible if there is way of confirming definitively that anyone allowed into the ground is virus free.
https://twitter.com/GrahamSpiers
bordersdon 7th April 2020 at 18:11
https://twitter.com/GrahamSpiers
===============================================
Johnston et al have long been in some parallel universe. Worthy of scientific study… you'd need serious PPE though due to their severe toxicity.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Ex Ludo 7th April 2020 at 14:10
'…Was the TV series not better because it was in black and white and more evocative of the 1930’s and ‘40’s gangster movies? ..'
$$$$$$$$$$$
Undoubtedly!
It also was in faux-documentary/newsreel style, with the famous Walter Winchell as the narrator.
And, of course, when I was of boyhood picture-going age (to the 'Black Cat' on Springfield Road, the 'Three Ps' [Parkhead Picture Palace] on Tollcross Road, and the 'Granada' on Duke St just down from Parkheid Croass), many of the films were of the 1940s and indeed '30s.[The original 'King Kong' was made in 1931, and my pal Podgy's da worked in the Arcadia at Bridgeton Cross and let us in for nothing through a fire exit, in about 1952!]
Mr Johnsto does himself no favours, what ever anyone thought of him or anyone knows what he may have done, he opens his mouth and any thoughts anyone had of him are proved right.
Cluster One 7th April 2020 at 12:43
I think the Alastair Johnston story is just a deflection from the wage cut story coming from ibrox.
===============
I'm not so sure. Johnston is definitely put on a pedestal by the Scottish Media. I have my own views why that is. I could best sum it up by saying that certain people, from certain backgrounds, who are members of certain fraternal organisations are viewed as superior, no matter their past wrongdoing. David Murray is another perfect example of that. In terms of the 'asterisk' Johnston referred to, I have long believed the type of people I refer to will actually win the day on that one. Just like they won the day on 'same club', 'going for 55', and a complete whitewash of the fact Rangers won many trophies with illegally registered players.
The groundsman at Portland Park in Troon appears to have reseeded the goalmouths; a sure sign that the season has ended.
A wee aside for a spring evening:
http://troonfootballclub.co.uk/pele-at-portland-park/
Essential repair work on the £brox pitch going on seems it will take 4 weeks let us hope they are not using any of those workers that are being furloughed then.
What we're up agin – from The Guardian .
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/07/jose-mourinho-and-tottenham-players-break-coronavirus-rules-to-train-ndombele-sanchez-sessegnon
shug 7th April 2020 at 20:10
Essential repair work on the £brox pitch going on seems it will take 4 weeks let us hope they are not using any of those workers that are being furloughed then.
=======================================================
Planting a few veggies for a wee bit o' extra income Shug.
…… They've been loading the park with plenty manure since the new year. ….World class tomatoes for the breakfasts will reduce overheads.. When the Big Liar told Park D'Bus to fill the terraces with cabbages, he mis-understood the exact nature of chairing the "small-holdings" company.
That's what led to the Japanese Jock pulling his £20m out. Park D'Bus told him it was a greenfield site, and it only had planning permission for a wee wall. He then tried to tap him for wan point three million.
Admittedly somewhat of current topics, but here we go!
I guess the bloggers will be spending sometime debating the ramifications of the outcomes of current SPFL/SFA discussions regarding the future of season 2019/20 – and beyond – so just before we do, I took a nostalgic trip down memory lane via You Tube/ Pathe News (fantastic!), and for some reason (memories of Cathkin Park?) checked out some of Third Lanark’s former players. What a list in the context of Scottish Football History! Here are some (to jog a few memories?) – with apologies for any glaring omissions.:-
Bobby Evans (Celtic), Sammy Cox (Rangers), Joe Davis (Hibs), Billy Houliston (Queen of the South), Duncan McKay (Celtic) Jimmy Mc Mullan (Wembley Wizard), Ally McLeod, Willie Redpath (Motherwell), Alex Venters (Rangers), Jimmy Walker (Hearts), Tommy McInally (Celtic), Drew Busby (Hearts), Ronnie Simpson (Celtic), Evan Williams (Celtic), Maxie Murray (Rangers).
Had a tear in ma eye at the end of it!
bect67
You missed Findlay McGillivray ?
https://images.app.goo.gl/WW7R2u5iioXtqoU8A
Is this Sked at it again? From the 'Scotsman online' this morning:
"..How Rangers could make a near £5m profit on Ianis Hagi in a transfer involving Real Madrid
The Romanian ace has been linked with a move to the Spanish giants'"
I've just hunted through the main Spanish football papers,
https://www.football-espana.net
https://www.spainenglish.com
https://spainsnews.comhttps://en.as.com
https://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football.html
Not a dickie bird about TRFC / Hagi.
Could it be that our Joel has better football journalistic skills and contacts than the Spanish journos?I doubt it.
I don't know Sked from diddly squat, but I have absolutely no reason to believe that anything he has to say is founded on independently verifiable fact!
Big Pink 8th April 2020 at 12:00
https://images.app.goo.gl/WW7R2u5iioXtqoU8A
——————————————————————–
and no such thing as image rights back then I imagine BP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
The Lowland League has put out a statement that 68 clubs have applied to join the new WOSFL
http://slfl.co.uk/pyramid-statement-3/
The 68 will consist of the 63 current members of the West Juniors, plus five other sides, three of which have gone public, Glasgow University, Drumchapel Utd and Bonnyton Thistle. The identity of the two other applicants is not known. Bonnyton is already a member of the SOSFL but, being based in Kilmarnock, the WOSFL application makes sense.
Meanwhile up North, the local press is reporting that discussions between the Highland League, the North Caledonain FA and the North Region Junior FA are ongoing and could see a feeder league to the HL established at Tier 6.
Fort William better beware.
This follows a couple of articles in the Inverness Courier, last week, about the NCL wanting to join the pyramid, and (separately) four new clubs having applied for NCL membership.
It looks as if grass roots football at the bottom of the pyramid is flourishing.
Now if only they were able to play some games. ……………………….
Thanks BP – every day a school day on here!
I think he was the right back 'no asterisk' Rangers signed and never played in the first team.
There was no truth in the rumour of the time that he was signed to weaken the opposition.
I forgot to mention the memorable forward line of:-
Goodfellow, Hilley, Harley, Gray and McInnes.
That's me dun!!
John Clark 8th April 2020 at 12:18
Is this Sked at it again?
From the 'Scotsman online' this morning: "..How Rangers could make a near £5m profit on Ianis Hagi in a transfer involving Real Madrid…
=========
JC, yes this guy has plenty of 'previous' for copying/pasting absolute Ibrox related nonsense.
He's just another Skedmark on SMSM sport journalism, IMO.
League(s) statement.
https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-clubs-to-vote-on-curtailment-of-ladbrokes-s
Sked and Parallel Universe FC* Is there no reality check in place for this kind of nonsense?
Next headlie, sorry headline : “New Financing Strategy Unveiled – Rangers* To Invest In The National Lottery This Weekend – Club anticipates £30M win”
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath
Co, that’s Doncaster – in a long winded way – stating he has decided not to make a decision on the SPL.
…until told what to do by UEFA.
Quelle surprise!
What would anyone expect for a £388K salary?
We don’t need exorbitantly expensive ‘leadership teams’ at either the SPFL or the SFA,
just reasonably competent administrators.
Did Alastair Johnston ever get passed as fit and proper to participate in Scottish football?
If not, then why is the SMSM deeming him fit and proper to opine on important Scottish football matters?
Should it not actually be Alastair Johnston* ?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Corrupt official 8th April 2020 at 14:21
League(s) statement.
https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-clubs-to-vote-on-curtailment-of-ladbrokes-s
========================================
Extract from the statement (the meaningful bit)
What the SPFL has proposed is a single vote on a number of proposals, together with a carrot of reconstruction if the vote goes through.
There really should be separate votes on:
* Calling the league now.
* The method of calculating final positions
* The determination that there will be promotions and relegations
* The cancellation of all play-off games
The key one as far as Hearts is concerned is actually the cancellation of the play-off games. That makes both Hamilton and St Mirren safe, should the Premiership go down the same route, while multiple clubs in lower leagues will be similarly "saved". The clubs losing out on potential play-off opportunities will also be impacted, including those in the Highland and Lowland Leagues.
The possibility of talks on reconstruction is a means of getting clubs who will be disadvantaged by the above proposals to actually vote for them.
The SPFL Board should be providing more information on their current thinking on reconstruction, so that an informed decision can be made.
easyJambo 8th April 2020 at 15:15
Re the “League(s) statement” I took this to be a done deal already agreed with the major players – the ‘one vote’ arrangements being based on an unofficial guarantee that the leagues would be reconstructed to effectively negate Premier/Championship relegation this season.
My guess – the Premier league would be increased to 14 with the top two in the Championship promoted. This would cascade so that we ended up with a 3 league structure with 14 teams in each.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
‘John Clark 8th April 2020 at 12:18
Is this Sked at it again? From the ‘Scotsman online’ this morning:
“..How Rangers could make a near £5m profit on Ianis Hagi in a transfer involving Real Madrid
The Romanian ace has been linked with a move to the Spanish giants'”
#############################
It’s Aidan Smith’s byline in the Herald. He states Spanish website Don Balon is reporting this:
https://www.donbalon.com/
I can’t see the story on the splash page, so I went to the Real Madrid-specific page:
https://www.donbalon.com/futbol/equipo/real-madrid
I can’t see it there, either.
I used the ‘Buscar’ (search) function: no luck there either using both ‘Hagi’ & ‘Rangers’ (sic) as search terms. I’m not saying that the story isn’t on the website; if it is, it’s not easy to spot. Can anyone else find it on Don Balon?
BTW, Mr. Smith uses the word ‘ulustrious’ in his piece. Whit?
the latest Statement O'Clock
by Rangers Football Club
Wednesday, 08 April 2020, 16:00
CONSIDERING the current circumstances and increased speculation surrounding the ongoing impact of the Coronavirus pandemic on Scottish football, we felt it is incumbent that we provide clarity in relation to our position.
For the avoidance of doubt, Rangers firmly believe that the 2019/20 season is only complete when all 38 games have been played to a finish.
Nevertheless, we are conscious of the ongoing financial hardships faced by many clubs within the Scottish game. No business is immune from the impact of Coronavirus and we were proud of our players and senior staff’s voluntary decision to defer their wages to ensure job security for their colleagues at Ibrox. Furthermore, many clubs urgently require financial support to maintain cash flow and allow them to survive this current impasse so they can return to normal business when the current government lockdown is relaxed. It is important to recognise that these clubs across all the leagues are now in a financially precarious situation.
As a club, Rangers will immediately propose a member’s resolution which would release prize money to be distributed to all clubs throughout Scotland urgently. We believe that this is the priority in the present circumstances. It is vital to show respect for all clubs across the Scottish game, regardless of league position or financial standing. We must work together with a unity of purpose for the betterment of the Scottish game.
We are also acutely aware of other issues which are less pressing but, are forming key parts of the football narrative in Scotland. Nothing is more important than protecting the future of every club in Scotland as we are cognisant that this has a direct impact upon people’s livelihoods. It is abhorrent that certain clubs could be unfairly relegated if the current SPFL proposals were implemented. We must future proof the Scottish game.
Any restructure of the SPFL or other solutions to the current impasse must be afforded time to scrutinise in detail and consider all options. The consequences of forcing through change without due care and attention will have severe consequences for the Scottish game.
Scottish football must work together for the common good of every club, their staff and supporters. Any attempts to railroad changes to existing rules or run roughshod over corporate governance will be opposed in the strongest possible terms. We must allow decisions to be made in a rational, fair and balanced manner.
In the meantime, we expect clubs to support our member’s resolution which will provide financial support to those who need it most.
the latest Statement O'Clock
They really know how to gather friends along the way, eh?
Every statement needs to have a threat in it. Bluto out of Popeye always comes to mind when you read this stuff , although Bluto was a bit stronger in the sentence structure department.
redlichtie 8th April 2020 at 16:10
easyJambo 8th April 2020 at 15:15
Re the “League(s) statement” I took this to be a done deal already agreed with the major players – the ‘one vote’ arrangements being based on an unofficial guarantee that the leagues would be reconstructed to effectively negate Premier/Championship relegation this season.
===============================
Going by the statement, there is no “done deal” on reconstruction.
If the resolution is approved, the SPFL has also committed to consulting with Clubs over the possibility of League restructuring ahead of Season 2020/21.
Lots of ifs and buts in the above. If I was a betting man, then I think that reconstruction would be possible, but not necessarily probable.
Take the position of Ross County, Hamilton and St Mirren should the Premiership be ended on the same terms as that proposed for the other divisions. The proposal would see them all safe from relegation, either directly or through the play-offs, so they will certainly support it. However, when it comes to reconstruction, why would the vote for what would be a dilution of prize money next season with a larger league, the possibility of 3/4 teams being relegated, and the loss of a guaranteed 3rd home game against Celtic or Rangers.
I am bound to make one observation about the SPFL’s Board proposals. Hamilton, Alloa and Brechin all have representatives on the Board. All three teams would avoid the possibility of relegation should there be a vote in favour, and the process is extended to the Premiership.
On relegation, it’s worth noting that after 30 games last season (the same point as we are at) St Mirren was bottom of the table. They didn’t get relegated, as Dundee contrived to end the league 11 points adrift, and that was over just eight games.
I don’t know how this will play out, but if there is no reconstruction, then I can see one or more clubs seeking an interim interdict to prevent the SPFL putting its proposals into effect. It’s unusual for me to be agreeing with bits of a TRFC statement, but they are correct in stating “It is abhorrent that certain clubs could be unfairly relegated if the current SPFL proposals were implemented.”
That’s the case for Hearts “defence” although, on the park, they haven’t shown themselves to be particularly competent over the course of the season.
"The consequences of forcing through change without due care and attention will have severe consequences for the Scottish game.
Scottish football must work together for the common good of every club, their staff and supporters. Any attempts to railroad changes to existing rules or run roughshod over corporate governance will be opposed in the strongest possible terms. "
Now where could possibly I find conclusive empirical evidence to support these statements?
The lack of self-awareness is just staggering.
Scottish Football must suffer from amnesia….
“…It is vital to show respect for all clubs across the Scottish game…”
==========
Coming out with such brazen BS like this just reminds everyone why The Rangers is such an utterly detested club/company.
The sooner it goes the same way as Rangers, the better, IMO.
John Clark 8th April 2020 at 12:18
Is this Sked at it again? From the ‘Scotsman online’ this morning:
“..How Rangers could make a near £5m profit on Ianis Hagi in a transfer involving Real Madrid.
….
A £5mill profit on a guy they have on loan.
I don’t know how they will do it, must be some kind of strange ibrox magic.
……………..
That ibrox statement, Wow! just wow, how desperate are they for the prize money and getting out a statement as if they are doing other clubs a turn.
………………
we were proud of our players and senior staff’s voluntary decision to defer their wages to ensure job security for their colleagues at Ibrox.
………….
was it a 100% deferal of wages or 50%, they don’t let it be known.
……….
Scottish football must work together for the common good of every club,
…..
Begging for help if they run out of money.
…………
Footnote.
An ibrox club does nothing for no one, they look out for no one except themselves.
EJ
If I’m County, St Mirren or Hamilton I insulate myself from dropping the 3rd Sevco Celtic game by improving the chances of staying up longer term, ie by voting in 3 * 14 for a minimum of three years or more. What is proposed (other than the premiership body swerve – what another generation might have correctly identified as “shat it”) – is to go ahead as we were and we’ll maybe think about a change later.
Personally I’d abstain and get every other club to do likewise. I’m not voting away the previously hard won play off opportunity now just because Sky say they won’t play ball in the future, particularly since their concerns will involve two clubs and two clubs only. Personally I’d get a commitment (or confirmation of their failure to commit) from them now and put out a draft reconstruction alongside it. Only then would I ask clubs to commit to voting on the first part.
can I get my £388k now? I don’t mind furloughing for it!
The Sevvies love a' that rabble-rousing pish.
But!……For the record, they intend to use their democratic voice in the voting system, to award themselves 2nd spot in the league, and collect the appropriate prize fee for that position. That is acceptable to them.
What they say, has no importance when standing beside what they do of their own free will.
Had reconstruction to a 14 team top tier and no relegation been part of the proposals, then going to a single vote on a package of measures, I would have expected Hearts to vote for it.
Instead, by separating it for the rest of the proposals, it suggests to me that the SPFL Board isn’t exactly keen on reconstruction. It will now require a separate vote requiring at least a 9-3 vote of premiership clubs to put it into effect, which IMHO is far less likely to happen.
I thought TRFC was championing " null and void " ? No prizes or prize money , all results expunged from records (including European ) , restart from where we were last August . Nobody gets relegated , not even abhorrently . ( I fear we may be heading towards the mirroring of language used in Norn Irn political statements , with a lack of understanding of the meaning and usage of words ).
easyJambo 8th April 2020 at 18:20
Do the rules not say that there has to be a clear season for a new structure to be put in place anyway.
So even if it was agreed just now it would be the 2021 / 22 season before it took place.
I don't know if that's the case, it just rings a vague bell with me.
the latest Statement O’Clock
……………
It is back to… Club Statement.
EJ
Which is why I think they’ll need to incentivise the reconstruction to make it worth the 9 Clubs voting yes’ while.
i agree, essentially 11 clubs of the cabal do want it called with Hearts the only no-voter for obvious reasons (I’m ignoring Sevcos apparent concern to corporate governance). But as I’ve said all along if the reason for that viewpoint is a basic addiction to the opioid effect of old firm attendances then fine, let them come out straight and say that. And then see the effect on those attendances going forwards.
One other thing that hasn’t been clarified in relation to the proposals is the play-off between Club 42 and the HL/LL play-off winners.
The SPFL have unilaterally proposed that there will be no play-offs, i.e. Brechin will be saved. However, the SPFL rules state that the Pyramid Play-off rules can only be achieved by agreement between the SFA, SPFL, HL and LL.
From the SPFL’s own rules:
Annex 9 – I(c)
Any amendment to these Pyramid Play-Off Rules must be agreed by each of the Scottish FA, SPFL, SHFL and SLFL prior to it becoming effective.
That looks as if the SPFL’s proposals could be deemed “ultra vires”, therefore subject to challenge by the HL / LL.
Of course, the HL / LL could use the situation as a bargaining tool to facilitate the automatic relegation of Club 42 in future years.
From the Guardian and topical .
“What’s the latest that the entire season of a league has been cancelled and annulled (before 2020)?” wonders Yes, That’s A Twitr on, um, Twitter. “Did any leagues get halfway into an ultimately annulled season? 3/4 of the way? 80% of the way? Has there ever been a season that was completed and *then* annulled?”
Alex von Fintel supplies a highly comprehensive and very possibly unbeatable answer. “The 1922 German football championship, the 15th edition of the competition, saw no champion determined after the first final ended in a 2-2 draw and the replay in a 1-1 draw,” he writes. “Hamburg were initially awarded the title because the other finalist, Nuremberg, had been down to seven players through injuries. In the break of the extra time of the replay one Nuremberg player decided he couldn’t carry on, bringing his team below the required number of eight players on the field.
“Hamburg was awarded the title but Nuremberg successfully protested – the referee should have blown to start the second half of extra time and then immediately blown his whistle to abandon. Hamburg understandably launched a counter-protest and were awarded the title – but then declined the championship, probably under pressure from the football authorities. So the 1921–22 season was effectively abandoned 0.1 seconds before it would have finished – and it really was the ref’s fault.”
There have been famous cases of league titles being stripped from clubs for reasons of corruption after a season has been played. Marseille in 1992-93 and Juventus in 2005-06 were both denied the title with differing decisions taken on what happened to the trophy. PSG, despite finishing second, did not accept the French title while Internazionale did in Italy. But Alex’s suggestion may take some beating.
Came across this heading from The Scotsman (page not found when I went to check it out!):-
"SPFL clubs will be asked to vote on voiding (eh – whit huv a missed?) season or calling it due to the coronavirus crisis".
As for Sevco's response to today's meeting, I think this headline (admittedly from The Celtic Star – slightly biased!?) summed it up perfectly:-
Surrender or We'll Cry.
'nuff said.
I was in a work meeting this morning and one angry colleague demanded a resolution be passed immediately that everybody could go to the toilet. Didn't take my colleagues and I long to work out whose bladder was about to burst.
Ok; hopefully I have interpreted this correctly:
As a club, Rangers will immediately propose a member’s resolution which would release prize money to be distributed to all clubs throughout Scotland urgently. We believe that this is the priority in the present circumstances. It is vital to show respect for all clubs across the Scottish game, regardless of league position or financial standing. We must work together with a unity of purpose for the betterment of the Scottish game.
Can we take from this statement that 'as a club, Rangers' are proposing that all prize money is distributed to all clubs urgently throughout Scotland? I for one would support this. (If this is the proposal). There is circa £25m to be distributed. There are 42 clubs (ok – I'll stand corrected as I've assumed this encompasses the SPFL, the Championship and the lower leagues 1 & 2) that share the distribution. Are TRFC saying that each club should receive change of £600k each? This proposal is faultless and absolutely shows respect for all clubs across the Scottish game. I'd go a bit further, distribute £500k each and pass the change off as a charitable contribution to those clubs striving to survive out with the top tiers.
stifflersmom 8th April 2020 at 21:31
"I've assumed this encompasses the SPFL, the Championship and the lower leagues 1 & 2)"
As I understand it there is only one league, The Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL).
That is made up of The Premiership, The Championship, League 1 and League 2.
The prize pot is split as a percentage of £25m, depending on where a club places within the 42 team structure.
Which if anything supports your position, one league, one prize pot.
If they want the second placed prize money but don’t want celtic to be awarded the title as in their eyes celtic could be caught.
But in the third place club eyes could they state the rangers could be caught and release a statement.
We don’t want the rangers to be awarded second place price money etc.
" We must work together with a unity of purpose for the betterment of the Scottish game", says the lying , hypocritical new club.
Well, the single biggest step they could take "for the betterment of the Scottish game" would be to acknowledge publicly that RFC of 1872 ceased to exist in 2012,
and that TRFC is a club that was newly admitted into Scottish Football in 2012: and has been falsely living on the name and sporting achievements of RFC of 1872.
That would let truth and honesty back into the game as far as TRFC's place in the game is concerned.
The SFA would still of course have to open up a full investigation into how the dead club , apparently unentitled, was slipped a few million quid some years while it was still alive, and into the question as to whether any officers of the SFA may have been party to a criminal offence.
We would like to nail any such officers, to clear the dung out of the Hampden stable, and see condign punishment inflicted.
Homunculus
In essence, your clarification edifies 'their' proposal. It's now time that they uphold their statement and endorse it, such that it's less confused and more comprehensible.
Scottish football needs a strong Scottish football, as much as it needs a strong Arbroath.
Cluster One 8th April 2020 at 21:59
Well , presently Motherwell and Aberdeen could catch TRFC .
There are a couple of problems with signing young Hagi for 4.5m then immediately selling him to Real Madrid for 8.5m and pocketing a cool 4 m for doing the square root of heehaw . The first one is obvious , for a club* that can't afford to pay the squad wages rustling up 4.5 m might be a but tricky and secondly young Hagi doesn't have to sign for Rangers* . They only have first option to offer him terms for an agreed fee to his parent club . Only a very foolish agent would suggest he signs a contract at Ibrox and then negotiates a deal at Real. If the interest from Real is well …real , and I must admit to being just a tad sceptical about that then they will discuss matters with his agent . Of course it's great to suggest that the Ibrox based club* has 4m just sitting waiting to be picked up especially if you are a lender of last resort who has a loan due for approximately ….. 4m .
As others have already pointed out , today's statement when laid bare (or should that be bear) is an acknowledgement that the Blue room is now reminiscent of old Mother Hubbard's Cupboard. Even with the lower paid earners on the Furlough scheme and an unknown percentage of wages from the high earners deferred it will be a massive struggle to meet the April wage bill. Even if they can kick the can down the road the problems are piling up for whenever normality returns. What chance have they got of meeting any transfer instalment fees that will be due shortly ? As all other clubs are in a similar position they may find that goodwill will be in short supply . As David Murray said to Airdrie FC " it's nothing personal , just business". Talking of business will the next statement include a tempting offer to the fans to buy 1sq ft of genuine Ibrox turf ? If not then they're missing a wee earner there. (why else would you dig up the pitch before the decision to end or extend the season? ) In other news , the interims have still not made a public appearance and there's still no news of a retail deal . Hagi to Real Madrid ……… ahahahahahaha the more things change the more they stay the same !
It’s now Ann Budge’s turn to issue another statement. (it’s a bit weak and wishy-washy compared to some of her recent efforts)
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-statement-1-2-3
Timtim
If ever there was a time to relax your face, maintain eye contact and only blink occasionally, now’s the time. Stock is low and there are certain teams facing the reality of this. Some will prosper and secure players on longer term deals for future investment, mostly those that have no immediate urgency to capitalise and sell. Others will forever reminisce about this .
Scottish football needs a strong Scottish football, without fear or prejudice, more so than a strong Arbroath.
Given the recent past history of Scottish football it would not surprise me if a 42 way deal has already been arranged off the table and this vote is designed to provide a veneer of due process and for clubs to make the right noises for their respective fanbases. Every single club requires cash now not just the one based in Ibrox. They are all in this together and will have to make a truly collective decision.
easyJambo
8th April 2020 at 19:10
One other thing that hasn’t been clarified in relation to the proposals is the play-off between Club 42 and the HL/LL play-off winners.
The SPFL have unilaterally proposed that there will be no play-offs, i.e. Brechin will be saved. However, the SPFL rules state that the Pyramid Play-off rules can only be achieved by agreement between the SFA, SPFL, HL and LL.
From the SPFL’s own rules:
Annex 9 – I(c)
Any amendment to these Pyramid Play-Off Rules must be agreed by each of the Scottish FA, SPFL, SHFL and SLFL prior to it becoming effective.
That looks as if the SPFL’s proposals could be deemed “ultra vires”, therefore subject to challenge by the HL / LL.
Of course, the HL / LL could use the situation as a bargaining tool to facilitate the automatic relegation of Club 42 in future years.
………………
EJ, as I read it, no amendment to the existing rules would be required. There is already a rule in place.
When a club, or clubs, cannot complete its (or their) fixtures, the SPFL board can make any determination it considers appropriate in the circumstances. That specifically includes a determination of a scheduled Play Off Competition.
The key phrase is “participate in”.
So we have sevco and prob Hearts voting against maybe the Dons as well and 1 more will scuttle it for the top division.Would Killie side with sevco.
Here are some thoughts on it from someone on the Celtic blog.If the post is not allowed admin please delete.
Wullie Langdon
2 hrs
I think we ALL know that the League cannot be written off as null and void. Broadcasters may want refunds as will ST holders all over the country.
Celtic will, regardless of getting awarded it as it stands or by getting the games played out (if possible) will STILL be Champions.
No matter which way this folds, we are winners.
Sevco are feigning concern for other clubs in the hope that this exercise in "crying wolf" will convince clubs to back them and get these payments made and NOT award Celtic the title.
There is a way round this and Celtic as a Club should promote this and come out smelling of roses whilst sticking one to Sevco.
Bear with me on this.
I've done the numbers.
Total prize monies for SPFL Premier League is £20,502,000.
Celtic's cut as winners would be £3.350,000
Sevco's cut as 2nd (?) would be £2,400,000
And so it goes on a sliding scale.
Celtic, as the most powerful and magnanimous club should propose, in light of the plight of smaller clubs, in line with Sevco's concerns, the following:-
ALL Premiership Clubs for this season and this season only should ALL get an equal split of the money.
This means ALL clubs get £1,713,500 each
But before you all start, lets revisit the numbers.
Celtic lose £1,636,500 with this deal.
Sevco lose £680,500 with this deal.
I'm pretty sure we can take a hit of this size but can they? At the rate they burn through money?
They also get what they wanted which is the prize money right now but it is less than they expect LOL.
It also helps a lot of other smaller clubs further down the League.
Or payout all the cash except 1st and 2nd until the season can be finished or until it is impossible to complete it.
You gotta laugh or maybe cry each to their own.
It was emphasised today that some clubs, particularly those in the lower Leagues, need funds to be released to help them navigate their way through this exceptional situation. I do not accept however, that this resolution needs to be passed in order to release those funds. If the Government can change the Laws of the Land, within 24 hours, to cope with this crisis, then surely it cannot be impossible for Scottish Football’s Governing bodies to modify rules to get things done. This is a time for pragmatism, not rules.
……
Back in 2012
there is no mechanism for what we are trying to achieve…” In other words, the people entrusted to run the national game in Scotland were making it up as they were going along.
…
Listen Ann. if they could make rules up then as they went along they can make rules up now as they go along.
shug 9th April 2020 at 00:08
================================
Those numbers are just made up.
There is no split of prize money per division.
There is a £25m prize pot for the SPFL and it is split amongst the 42 clubs based on their finishing position in the league.
The details are here
https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m
"The SPFL has announced that £25 million in league prize money will be paid to its 42 member clubs this season"
"The £25 million league prize money is distributed according to the percentages set out below and is based on overall league standing at the end of the season."
The top club gets 13.4%
The bottom gets 0.18%
Homunculus 9th April 2020 at 00:23
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shug 9th April 2020 at 00:08
================================
Those numbers are just made up.
There is no split of prize money per division.
There is a £25m prize pot for the SPFL and it is split amongst the 42 clubs based on their finishing position in the league.
The details are here
https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m
"The SPFL has announced that £25 million in league prize money will be paid to its 42 member clubs this season"
"The £25 million league prize money is distributed according to the percentages set out below and is based on overall league standing at the end of the season."
The top club gets 13.4%
The bottom gets 0.18%
=================================
I never said they were just pointing out the thoughts on the Celtic blog would also have posted a thought from follow follow but after you leave out all the disgusting words then there really isn't much left.
That was why I added you gotta laugh or maybe cry no one is interested in any other club but their own I of course include myself in that as well. Leeann Dempster says Hibs are happy to wait but I would not trust what she says as far as I could throw her.
HirsutePursuit 8th April 2020 at 23:50
When a club, or clubs, cannot complete its (or their) fixtures, the SPFL board can make any determination it considers appropriate in the circumstances. That specifically includes a determination of a scheduled Play Off Competition.
============================
I think that the application of rule C50 isn’t appropriate n this circumstance. In fact I’m not sure that is applicable at all, unless you are a lawyer that is looking for loophole to justify the SPFL’s position.
It is the SPFL that is proposing that Brechin cannot complete its fixtures and as a result has decided that it shouldn’t have to face a play-off. It is not the club deciding that it can’t complete its fixtures and participate in the playoff, which is where C50 might come into play.
The Highland League has already declared Brora as its champion, so we have one club already poised to participate, but will not be allowed to do so by the SPFL’s proposal not to submit any club to a play-off or other adjudication.
Simply put the SPFL has put the shutters up by declaring that it won’t participate in the play off competition, without the agreement of the other associations.
From today’s Press and Journal.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/highland-league/2135581/significant-disappointment-for-highland-league-over-spfls-plan-to-axe-play-offs/
Homunculus 9th April 2020 at 00:23
shug 9th April 2020 at 00:08
—
Given TRFC's magnanimity and generosity of spirit towards the smaller clubs struggling with finance, surely they would support a reversal of those %ages, with the top club receiving 0.18% and the bottom 13.4%.
https://twitter.com/philippeauclair/status/1248192876879757312?s=21
Phillipe Auclair en pointe.
In my simple way of thinking: for the SPL specifically, there are 2 very distinct – and very important issues – being lobbied;
&
They should not be conflated, IMO.
Any SPFL reconstruction should NEVER be rushed, IMO, for any reason – as it sets a precedent, and could be seen to further diminish the integrity of the game, (I know).
If in future years a TRFC or CFC was near to relegation – would another league reconstruction be rushed through?
Obviously, self-interest is muddying the waters here WRT what the SPFL decides: yet another reason to have strong, capable leadership at Hampden to anticipate and navigate around potential blockers to ‘doing the right thing’ for the whole SPFL, both commercially and ethically.
However, I am quietly confident that whatever Doncaster announces – every club and every supporter will be left confused and/or angry. Guaranteed.
shug 9th April 2020 at 00:42
I wasn’t having a go at you, just the person who came up with this idea.
If he or she wants to come up with nonsense like that they should at least get their basic facts right.
Whatever team they support, or site / forum / blog they are posting on.
If people want to talk about splitting the money evenly then it should be £25m split 42 ways. One league, one prize pot. However I don’t think that is fair as it does not in any way reflect how the money is earned.
I also have serious issues about changing the rules of a competition (including the allocation of prizes) after the competition has started. People join a competition based on it’s rules, you should not then change those rules whilst it is still going on.
Hope this is of benefit to some. I received it last night but felt unwilling to post until I spoke to my friend (who sent me this) direct. I spoke to him this morning and he said fine so here goes ……
"Presentations were given by a number of people".
Maxwell SFA.
UEFA told SFA they were looking at a couple of options
Restarting European fixtures early June and domestic leagues later in June
Looking at late June restart with European fixtures in July
The issue with UEFA is that if they do not finish the CL then the pay-back fees are massive.
UEFA have explicitly requested that no decision is made on Top league until after UEFA meeting on 23rd June.
I think this is what has prompted the begging bowl from Rangers
Docaster SPFL
Focused on TV deals.
BetFred deal with Premier Sports begins July.
Sky Sports begins August.
Letter from Govt to SFA saying NHS on emergency until 10th June.
Player's should not train together before this time.
Given teams have recently said it would require 6 weeks to be prepared then this would see season resume late July, early August. Not a viable option.
UEFA have no control over player contracts and this lies with club/player/employment law. Though UEFA acknowledge windows need to change.
Priority is to start new season on time.
As above discussed average points. Hibs would move to 7 and St Johnstone to 6
Any resolution needs 75% of vote in each league (9/12 in SPL)
Summary is that top league will give the power to SPFL to call the league after UEFA meeting on 23rd of June.
Restructuring came up but would be difficult.
watcher 9th April 2020 at 13:09
'…Hope this is of benefit to some…'
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Thanks for that, watcher.
I am a wee bit surprised that UEFA appear not to have indicated that they might be in a position to at least challenge any claim by broadcasters to refund of monies paid for broadcasting rights if games aren't played, using 'force majeure' argument, perhaps tied in with generous broadcasting deals for subsequent seasons?
To the ordinary eye, it seems a matter of simple fact that circumstances have made it impossible for contracts to be met in full by any party, and that should be at least explored by all parties, in mutual self-interest in the longer term.
John Clark 9th April 2020 at 13:31
…
To the ordinary eye, it seems a matter of simple fact that circumstances have made it impossible for contracts to be met in full by any party…
===================
Absolutely, JC.
And on the face of it, it would seem that UEFA wants to avoid the possibility of any refunds AND to avoid offering any discounts for next season, or future seasons.
Hence, an impasse created by – and controlled by – UEFA.
(Based on nothing but pure speculation, of course.)
They are so desperate for cash down ibrox way it is now plan B
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5476148/rangers-resolution-full-spfl-board-consider/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1586435319
Re UEFA & refunds for TV rights:
Have the broadcasters paid all the monies due for this season’s UEFA CL & EL competitions? They don’t pay all the money up-front (or by the middle of March), surely?
(Incidentally, I wonder if some banks/finance companies are holding on to tranches of season-book money as a result of matches not being played?)
Thanks Watcher and to your friend.
Rangers statement may have appeased some of their fans but your friends comments seem to be in agreement with the rest of us that in reality it is just a feeble attempt at pretending to care!
A club that has taken a "mañana" approach to financial difficulties by merely deferring wages is unlikely to be the best at pointing the way forward. Anyone paying the least bit of attention should surely be aware that we are a long way from a return to normal income levels for football.
3 Whats in these difficult times.
1. What a lack of leadership in our game.
2. What a Hobson's choice series of divisive, unfair, dysfunctional and almost certainly expensive solutions.
3. What an opportunity for real change and changes across the board about to be missed.
From the reported Rangers* proposal : “…..member clubs shall be entitled to effect repayment by written confirmation to the League that the loan provided to that member Club may be set against the equivalent amount of the payment to be made to such member club on such determination.”
Note the use of the word 'entitled'.
Why would this not be an automatic deduction from the prize money when that is decided?
What if a club elects not to have their loan set against the prize money? How would the loan then be recovered? Would the club still get their prize money?
I can see problems ahead if there happened to be a cash-strapped club without access to other lines of credit.
Scottish Football needs to keep their eye on this ball!
Finloch 9th April 2020 at 14:51
3 Whats in these difficult times.
=========================
I’d echo those three “whats”
With regard to your second “what” and “expensive solutions”:
There is something that is fundamentally wrong with the process, when your club can be relegated simply by the votes of competitor clubs, thereby cutting your club’s future revenue from all sources including gate receipts, hospitality, prize money, broadcasting, retail, advertising, sponsorship etc. I’d estimate a drop in turnover of £5-£6m for Hearts, should they be relegated in a similar way to that proposed for Partick and Stranraer.
Had the season been completed and Hearts was in bottom place or had lost a play-off from 11th place then they would have fully deserved the consequences of relegation, but having it imposed by your competitors (some of whom benefit as a result) seems unjust in the extreme.
Let’s say that the majority of Premiership clubs sought to impose an end to the season now and award the title to Celtic. Would Celtic actually vote for that with the knowledge of a risk that UEFA could seek to exclude Scottish teams from UEFA competitions next year, as a result of not completing the season?
That would be an illustration of Celtic potentially being disadvantaged financially by a vote of its competitor clubs. It’s the same situation that Hearts finds itself.
redlichtie 9th April 2020 at 14:58
From the reported Rangers* proposal
………….
They want another loan to add to the loan they recieved from close brothers to add to the loan they got from Dave kings company to add to the deferred wages they will have to pay back
All to be paid back at a later date but if a bill comes in for the Ashley damages and a bill comes in for memorial walls?
Any creditors of the ibrox club just now may be very worried about getting any kind of payment from then any time soon.
Feck looking at it i’m worried they won’t last until the end of the month
At such a time of crisis, with difficult / potentially controversial decisions to make for the SPFL…
IIRC, both Maxwell and Doncaster have their offices on the same, 6th, floor at Hampden.
The two of them could have sat together in front of a laptop for 10 minutes and recorded a short video to stick on YouTube – displaying a united front and explaining the proposals on the table, explaining UEFA's input, reassuring supporters, etc.
Agreed, they probably couldn't add any specific detail, or indicate any preferences, but at the very least it would make the key stakeholders – i.e. us, the paying customers – feel like we are in the loop, being kept informed of what's going on.
Would have cost nothing.
Could have generated some much needed goodwill towards the SPFL and SFA.
But, that personal approach probably never even crossed the minds of Maxwell or Doncaster.
Today we had the inaugural, virtual 'First Minister's Questions' live – so why can't Hampden initiate something similar?
Improving Customer Service at Hampden should be top of their list! Start by asking for Customer Feedback, to state the bleedin' obvious.
If they don't want feedback, they won't improve.
If Maxwell and/or Doncaster are too scared to ask, then they are not leaders of anything, IMO.
Rant over.
easyJambo9th April 2020 at 10:26
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HirsutePursuit 8th April 2020 at 23:50
When a club, or clubs, cannot complete its (or their) fixtures, the SPFL board can make any determination it considers appropriate in the circumstances. That specifically includes a determination of a scheduled Play Off Competition.
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I think that the application of rule C50 isn’t appropriate n this circumstance. In fact I’m not sure that is applicable at all, unless you are a lawyer that is looking for loophole to justify the SPFL’s position.
It is the SPFL that is proposing that Brechin cannot complete its fixtures and as a result has decided that it shouldn’t have to face a play-off. It is not the club deciding that it can’t complete its fixtures and participate in the playoff, which is where C50 might come into play.
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EJ
I'm certainly not trying to justify the SPFL's position.
I have no particular skin in this game – other than a desire to see the people who are charged with overseeing our game do so fairly and within the existing rules.
The very last thing we need is the footballing authorities to, once again, ignore their own rules and make something up to get to a predetermined outcome.
My reading of rule C50 is that it is a catch-all rule – the inclusion of the phrase "for any reason" in the first sentence means that it does not matter why the circumstances have arisen. And the liberal use of "and/or" seeks to make those circumstances as wide as possible.
There is no causation element to this rule – "for any reason" means just that.
It only matters if the relevant circumstance(s) exist(s).
I see this in very simple terms.
Once it has been agreed/dictated that no further league games will be played, it follows by simple logic that clubs will cease to participate in the competition.
Ceasing to "participate in" the league triggers rule C50.
I'd turn this around and ask what loophole you see that would make C50 inoperative?
I honestly cannot see any valid reason why it should not apply.
martin C says @ 19.04
Fair point well made.
As a lifelong CFC fan, I’m desperate for the season to be completed as per 38 games (to eliminate any pathetic calls of ‘tainted’ titles – now there’s an irony for RFC and its apologists and propogandists!), but I must face up to the inevitable that this will not happen.
There is a distinct probability that no European Leagues will be completed.
I wonder (since cricket has the Duckworth-Lewis method of determining winners in truncated matches) could that lead to a kind of Alistair Johnston method of placing an asterisk against national league winners to indicate that, well, they didn’t really win the title.
In such cases, said asterisk would have to be placed against all the league winners who are entered into the Champions League.
Please read the above as ever so slightly ‘tongue-in cheek’ – its that time of night!!
D-Day today then will Scottish football shoot itself in the head sure seems like it could.Looks like Hibs are siding with sevco and Hearts so hell mend them all.
So looks like the top flight is screwed aberdeen a no. If this is really the case then payout no money no loans nothing let everyone live or die by their own means.That includes my club.
Edinburgh news now saying Hibs are voting for the proposal so a u-turn I do hope so would have hated my club going to the wall but if they were voting with sevco then I would have cut them from my life hard as it would be so no more from me on the subject.